The Talk Show

5: Live From WWDC 2012, with Cabel Sasser


  okay shut up an elegant start

  welcome to the evening welcome to the

  the first live episode of the talkshow


  thank thank you for having me I we are

  here at 111 minna in the zapper room

  pretty cool very nice

  yeah and joining me for the show up here

  on stage is cable sasser hello thank you

  for cheering and not doing so I was just

  saying the cable a couple minutes ago

  funny enough I've done three live

  podcasts in my life and all three have

  been with cancer I don't know how and I

  i didn't realize that until after I'd

  invited him to do this show and then I

  was like looking back on it was a couple

  years ago we did a thing at macworld

  expo where we were in like a booth it's

  almost hard to call it alive episode how

  would you describe that but this is very


  I just remember being in the booth at

  the plastic window next door and write

  so many people walking by and me being

  so distracted wanting to look at

  everybody walking by and people sort of

  waving and knocking on the people i and

  and the gist of it was it was supposed

  to be soundproof because the the show

  floor expo is really really acoustically

  horrendous it so they put us in this

  plastic fish bowl and it did sound

  better the audio came out good any idea

  where always that they were going to

  pipe it live to the other side and that

  people could be there but nobody could

  get that close to us and there was

  nobody there

  no and all we did is it was me and cable

  and your PIN so foundered Stephen Frank

  talking and people would walk by and

  right when they walk by the speaker they

  was her second look around see us in the

  fishbowl and then get creeped out and

  radical it's absolutely true that

  conversation is notable because that's

  when we brought up the concept of claim

  charter that's where we told you we've

  been joking about this in the office

  like trying to come up with the term for

  these situations where people make these

  outrageous claims that you know are

  going to be false but they still you

  know dedicate themselves to it and Steve

  came up with this term claim chatter and

  I remember you laughing for maybe about

  six minutes tricky

  heard that and the rest is history you

  guys still have the domain right yeah i

  do have claimed so if you guys are like

  anybody wants and needs to do anything

  chatter dot-com yes is and John sends a

  check every month which is totally


  that's pretty much what's keeping the

  company afloat right now though so I

  don't wanna I don't push my look you

  know I have a confession to make I've

  never actually listen to the talk show

  but but but that didn't stop me from

  reading it one star right that's just

  want you to know I'm doing my part and

  doing my part

  yeah we we have a good crowd here we

  have a very good crowd i suspect that

  most of the people here are the two star

  review people i think 23 yeah i think a

  lot of you and 3 star raiders here which

  is very nice i didn't I don't think the

  ones are people showed up but but then

  the other time we did a live show was

  Jason's now who's here

  editorial director of macworld back in

  2007 he invited me to do a live daring

  fireball we called it I on the show

  floor and this time it was much more

  like this there's a little stage or

  kiosk ered do something and yeah a real

  crowd of people who were there

  and-and-and I had you and I agreed to it

  in advance ended up it was the day that

  the original iphone was introduced as a

  pretty intense so it was like five hours

  after the keynote and I listened to it

  on the plane right out just to make sure

  I don't ask you the same questions again

  and I was really blown away by what we

  talked about like how it was either

  depression like we was just about to ask

  if we want we look really swear way

  yeah ah i would say the one thing you

  were a little bit wrong about is that

  great thanks for well I'm habited no i

  haven't listened to it yeah not bad

  motherfucker a jot it down from what you

  said is you said well there's a question

  about ball iphone thing is gonna be a


  no no all right we don't know there and

  there was a show of hands we didn't

  think the other there were another

  product that can introduce the same day

  and I didn't even remember this same day

  that the original iphone was introduced

  apple TV was introduced this wow the old

  spinning hard disk out and be somebody

  that's quite what they and I both on the

  same day

  and the crowd was obviously very smart

  or at least representative of the market

  a large because you asked you said okay

  show of hands and I am how many people

  here think they're gonna buy an iphone

  and everybody's hands go and we had to

  like interrupting like dad's plane to

  all the listeners who are listening to

  the podcast okay everybody's hand just

  went up it was literally everybody's

  hand yeah and then later on like you

  know 20 minutes later we're talking

  about the new Apple TV and you

  you said I hey who's gonna buy an Apple

  TV and there's like one guy and that's

  why it's a hobby right yeah I'm

  interesting you said that you called it

  the the question about the quote the

  whole third-party developer thing

  oh because it was a real Mary at that

  point that's totally true

  like we know in hindsight that the whole

  first year the iphone there were no

  third-party apps there was no apps or

  book on that first day we actually

  didn't even know that what would they

  didn't do the sweet solution that no

  that is a capital WWDC we'd solution

  right that was provided air quotes if

  you're listening at home that was six

  months later at WWDC that first day just

  you know Apple never tells you what's

  not included right now so there was and

  there was no answer on it I mean it was

  presumably there's no apps because they

  didn't say anything but it really made

  sense at the time that there is

  everybody sort of you know the word that

  was passed along among attendees was

  this was Steve's like precious

  incredible device and he did not want

  anything else on that phone right it was

  just going to be what what Apple puts on

  there and I kinda made logical sense at

  the time like oh well that kind of sucks

  for house but so it goes it was

  wondering you said is that if we do get

  the chance to write abs for this thing

  you were like I'm gonna be all over it

  yeah and that kind of didn't work out

  that way that's an interesting point

  because it was it things we have at that

  point so you know we make consumers

  stuff we made like audion which was this

  early mp3 player and and and and stuff

  more tuned to the average market and we

  wanted to make a photo thing but that

  was right before I photo came out and so

  we kind of have this string of things

  happen we're like Apple is going in this

  consumer direction if we do that we're

  just gonna get steamrolled every single

  time and so I think we made a

  subconscious which to we

  have to be more professional we have to

  shoot for bigger more complicated apps

  for you know Pro users or else we're

  just gonna keep getting steamrolled and

  then the iphone really throw a curve

  right because we were in this mode and

  then iphone became the most consumer

  great thing imaginable right like with

  with the angry birds and the farting

  apps and a host of you know it was like

  it totally win in a direction that that

  we were not 22 at that time so it's

  really interesting so then you know

  looking at it now in the context of the

  ipad and and diet soda which is our iPad

  version of our web editor that I you

  know that's like our pro thing for the

  ipad we still yet to really crack like

  go back to consumer really you know

  user-friendly consumer software and I i

  I'd like us to go back in that direction

  for all possible just trying to find the

  right things first but i digress i'm

  more more on that later on the other

  thing that we I thought both of us

  together we serve we sort of like just

  talked her way into the idea during the

  show of isn't everybody going to

  immediately start clamoring for this

  interface and this OS on something more

  of like a tablet sauce yes I turns out

  you have to get up and it it really is

  just a big iphone let's behind it it

  really does come across those two guys

  who like recorded this podcast today and

  they're claiming it was in 2007 on the

  day the iphone into that's good right

  the other thing we talked about that day

  is our mutual long-standing obsession

  with what was then called high DPI canal

  called retina display mac software

  yeah because and that's been a topic at

  WWDC like long-term WWDC attendees will

  recall from yeah i mean easily six seven

  years ago I remember 2007 I think we got

  Apple Design Award for Kota won and I

  remember them saying onstage and it's

  even got right you know high DPI assets

  or whatever and everyone kind of laughs

  too little because it was so far from

  reality and I i don't know maybe 2006

  2005 one of those years there was that

  it was sort of like one of the main

  themes WWDC long was get your apps high

  DPI right get your at and we were so

  excited this is january 2007 we thought

  me and you thought that

  retina display max were like around the

  corner we are ready I've been thinking

  that for a very long time to hell yeah

  and now we can say we're right yeah

  finally we are totally right so you saw

  it you looked at it I i have 1i have a

  review unit from apple and so I have it

  it's great i guess i should do like an

  off-the-cuff quick review like first

  impression thing i would love to hear

  that I i I'm so one thing I didn't know

  before i started using it is the highest

  DPI is the on the phones retina display

  that's like 330 something and then that

  I ipad pixels-per-inch is 266 or 267

  something like done and now this one is

  it to 20 so it's the lowest

  pixels-per-inch but it's also the one

  you naturally use the farthest distance

  from your eyes sure

  and my impression is easily that it's

  the sharpest like while using it's the

  one that seems the crazy sharpest oh man

  I and it really feels like i'm using a

  fake version of Mac os10 yep

  ah yeah that's how retina things have

  always felt right

  you just have to peel off the little

  sticker oh yes first and like like

  somebody made and I know that they've

  done this for demos and for keynote

  swear if they want to show a zoomed-in

  part of the interface right rejected

  really big

  yeah and I remember I i actually used to

  collect these apple PR images that would

  have these 2x or 3x mock-ups they would

  be four giant banners in the apple store

  you know various places it's always

  interesting to see how they would

  recognize these assets right long before

  they did yeah I another example of it is

  when they've done print ads over the

  year that show the interface at greater

  than real size they redo everything so

  that the graphics are the quality of the

  printing not you know you don't see

  jaggies right and that's what it looks

  like why you're just using the computer

  it looks like you're using the fake

  version they mocked up in Illustrator I

  really need for the Yuuzhan a glossy


  yeah I

  and I mean obviously it's apple they're

  going to save the greatest thing ever

  but they were it really does it's just a

  better-looking display than the phones

  are the ipads I mean it just has better

  color it it's it's just sort of

  mind-blowing i was reading some gizmodo

  comments and those guys didn't seem too

  excited about that so i don't know i

  think I side with those guys is really

  just a joke

  everything's a joke anyways I the other

  thing I think everybody here has gotta

  be an agreement with with the whole

  every time you go from a pre-rendered

  device to the retina device the thing

  that juts out is the apps that haven't

  been updated to support the retina right

  and i also think that the progression is

  that they look far worse on this device

  like they did on the ipad we made them

  look worse than on the iphone like the

  iphone i always thought it was kind of

  tolerable using the non-retina naps

  until everything got recognized but on

  the mac it really really sticks out

  it it it's gonna be interesting it's it

  looks like you're gonna hurt yourself by

  touching the Jaguar of the pixel right

  and in your experience using this laptop

  it i mean are you seeing this a lot are

  a lot of things not looking great and

  yeah I will say this well we'll get back

  to it but I did I will talk about coding

  later but coda I did launch kota

  anticipating it and you you so you

  haven't seen Cody run right this way

  hold up so far as I could tell in about

  two minutes of poking around everything

  looks less like it worked whatever you

  did to anticipate it took so much work

  right there are all sorts of thank you

  thank you

  it's all the guys in the office it's all

  I just drew some things but um yeah when

  we were developing kota I mean not to

  jump ahead but yeah it was you know at

  some point towards the end it's like

  things were kind of slowing down a

  little bit and we were just like let's

  take a crack at this because the OS

  obviously was was headed in that

  direction rapidly you know it was a no

  longer just a weird developer option

  that you had to install xcode well you

  still kinda had install echoecho but

  anyways it was more easily accessible so

  yeah it was an interesting process

  because you know there's art side of it

  had you know redo a bunch of assets

  which is you know just a process but

  then there's all sorts of stuff that's

  drawn and code that was just crazy you

  know progress bar that just like crazy

  and things that but my favorite thing

  about it I'm jumping ahead again but

  that's okay

  is that those we did these crazy tab

  thumbnails you've talked about him in

  greater we sort of visualize your tabs

  and I'm always a little bit nervous

  about that idea cause it's just so

  different but you know we if it's a text

  document will show the actual text of

  the document and the first time we ran

  it and retina and realize that you know

  you can actually read the text in the

  thumbnails and I was like oh of course

  we knew that all along like we were

  shooting for retina with this feature

  and just like nervous will be like who

  but yeah it that part really excited

  because I'm like this is this is where

  its valuable right this is like where

  the detail really really shines bright

  and so the other thing that occurs to me

  is because I used to do back when I did

  design work I didn't a lot of print

  design and and I was on the school

  newspaper and like doing the school

  newspaper in the nineties with monitors

  that I guess words the OS treated

  everything is 72 pixels per inch but it

  was it was getting a little higher than

  that but not much

  I don't think I think was probably need

  like the best display was probably like

  in the eighties or maybe 90

  pixels-per-inch using print shop for

  this something more elaborate you know

  quarkxpress right okay I'm but when you

  design stuff like when you're designing

  a newspaper on a display that had at

  best 90 pixels-per-inch it was a very

  crude representation it was very clear

  that the real thing we were making was

  this 600 DPI output that was going to

  come out of the big laser printer and

  that was the real thing and in the

  meantime though we had this wonderful

  software that lets you use this very

  very crude representation of it you know

  where no font looked like the font right

  on screen not everything is small enough

  you just get that little like

  checkerboard pattern right and we didn't

  even have anti-aliasing for fonts at the

  time while i right

  so it was all just like a you know this

  is what we think it's going to look like

  but then you'd have to print it out and

  like look at it and see what the real

  thing is and that

  is absolutely what like retina does this

  is like all of a sudden it feels like

  after twenty-some years of using a

  Macintosh that I finally have a real

  mcintosh awesome that's right

  that is awesome like the fonts look

  right we're doing a walk right so are

  you are you a 15 inch powerbook man

  alright man Bob macbook pro man total

  macbook air

  yeah the 32 inch macbook air and i love

  the macbook air so much and it's i'm a

  little bit nervous about in my mind

  going backwards like I really like the

  you know the tapered shape but I don't

  know if I can go back to like the way it

  kind of makes me nervous and the shape

  makes me nervous but at the same time

  it's like I've obviously been waiting so

  many years for retina screen so whatever

  right i don't want to do because I'm

  like a big big desktop on my desk guy

  with an 11-inch era that carry around

  guy in a 15 inch which is what i used to

  use for years and years and years like

  what i really wish that I had never

  given that up and that i'd still just

  stuck with using up your teenager you're

  really this is great because then this

  new one ya feel so good night

  yeah and so sharp whereas it still feels

  like a brick to me because it's so much

  heavier than the 11-inch never get back

  from the air so how long until the

  errors have redness screens

  I don't know that does you know anybody

  here work for apple yeah they wouldn't

  say and presumably a long time now I

  feel like that's why they refreshed

  because it wasn't just a minor refresh

  to the 11-inch and 13-inch MacBook Airs

  yesterday it was like a major new

  chipset right at all new ram i mean i

  think that's sort of a message that you

  can buy an air today and I'm guessing be

  at least a year

  I don't know yeah I would think so right

  and everything else I mean everything's

  it's inevitable that it's all going to

  go that way right right a line will go

  that way the cinema displays in the you


  yeah right its it i don't know how long

  it's going to take but sooner rather

  than later

  every single Mac will have this display

  and you won't be able to buy one without

  it were you surprised when i said that

  adobe was gonna retin-a his photoshop i

  don't know why i laughed when I said I'm

  sorry I tried to play it totally

  straight and I totally failed

  um I don't know it just seems like that

  kind of second is sometimes challenging

  for them but maybe

  I'm trying to be so okay what do you

  think John you know what I it wasn't

  hers and there was there were very few

  third-party shoutouts in oh yeah you

  know doesn't show that one really

  started there were no third-party demos

  I and it was a fun you know I i guess

  the messages is that if anybody cares

  about em every god damn pixel it's

  photoshop users right we're like that

  sort of like who uses photoshop its

  people who sweat the pencils totally

  right and this device is all about

  pixels and so it it kind of makes sense

  I guess what I would love it

  I i hope that it whenever and i also

  think that has something to do with the

  target audience for the highest and

  15-inch macbook pro which i think is

  very designer heavy

  mm I and photo photographer and

  videographer Harry Wright photographers

  and videographers who have a mac in the

  field with them right i think you know

  everyone I've ever seen almost always

  has a 15-inch yeah so the examples or

  what photoshop autocad right which is

  interesting and then you know video

  stuff right photography stuff yet make


  diablo diablo which was the top of

  everyone's behind with the hardware

  yeah but that's cool and all but it

  looks amazing ah i've just been informed

  that the bar is closed while we're

  talking is this is this a legal policy

  or if it's up to me if I if it's my I

  mean it's my show I should have a say so

  I say the bar should be opened

  if if it was out of courtesy to me and

  you know if it's like a legal thing no I

  don't wanna go to jail so then g-cloud

  haha but if it was like a courtesy to

  the speakers they just go have drinks

  crew it's having yeah i mean this isn't

  water haha i should have opened the

  sooner so did you did you did you watch

  the keynote yeah what do you think well

  they packed a lot of stuff anything I

  mean it was at it I think everybody did

  a good job

  it flowed well it covered a lot of

  ground it was long

  it was interesting i don't know it was a

  really light presentation yeah

  in hindsight everything seemed to go off

  super smoothly

  they didn't you know the classic sort of

  keynote bummers when they can get really

  bogged down in the demos like I know

  that that's the part we like this is

  totally awesome and here's 98 people to

  demo various applications and sometimes

  i can be great and you get sometimes you

  get good jokes from it and sometimes you

  know but they skip that entirely right

  so it was kind of nice it just kept

  flowing that's tight and solid and yeah

  I liked it and I think Tim Cook has very

  very quickly

  I mean him he's only publicly appeared

  as the CEO so we'd he did the the iphone

  4s on campus like the day before Steve

  Jobs died it wasn't it was a CEO but

  steve was still around right eye and I

  think in hindsight everybody realized

  that there was a sort of melancholy

  nature to that event so i don't think

  that one really counts because and I

  think they played it perfectly but it

  doesn't really count and then I think he

  didn't do the book event New York City

  because you know i was sort of small

  potatoes and then he did the ipad thing

  which I that is great yeah and now at

  the WWDC I which is definitely special

  for Apple because WWDC keynote is the

  only public am an apple has left where

  somebody other than press gets to come

  nobody you don't get to line up for

  anything anymore there's no more

  macworld expo so is the one time where

  you know how many people here where

  we're at the keynote show of hands how

  many lot of wwc attendees write a lot of


  a lot of Bob you know people love it but

  that's his one chance and that's the

  chance he has to speak for I thought he

  was incredibly comfortable

  yeah and like the thing about it is it

  just felt completely natural right like

  there was no slight tinge of anything

  weird it's just like it

  you know it's like oh this is it so

  clearly the right man for the job right

  i mean very much exactly what he's doing

  yeah that was awesome yeah and there's a

  real passion you could just see him like

  that and I really don't know maybe it

  would have been the exact same movie if

  steve jobs are still CEO but I i thought

  that the emotional nature of yeah yeah

  that movie at the outset which is really

  what all he really introduced at the

  beginning was then this thing about

  helping you know the amazing blind guy

  in Norway and is going on like 15 mile

  walks in the woods around but nothing

  but his iphone running on the girl with

  the speech and pattern and the autistic

  kids and I'm everybody I mean you're

  weren't choked up in that movie and

  you're not hooked up right yeah totally

  but I thought that was very Tim Cook I

  mean I think he really buys into that

  I'm here and he seems ok yeah for sure

  that's good how it should be ah so what

  did anything else on the macbook pro i

  can't i'm just going through the keynote

  yeah right yeah nothing really i mean no

  Elvis grumbles the future usb3 right

  that's about it

  yeah alright what do you think we're

  going to have a Retina imac that's a

  really good question i mean they they so

  there was this thing about the pros

  right this hoopla about the pros right

  bro will give you should John Syracuse's

  here are friends on Syracuse's here is

  very say you can see the look on his

  face haha that's here for Johnson get

  any on

  yeah I have never seen him so angry

  haha yeah i mean he's like a whole rage

  angry about his mac mac pro upgrade you

  know quotable quotes a huge upgrade

  Franklin John it's a whole new product


  well I got a new badge on head for home

  and you know what

  yeah I guess we should we should talk so

  that's like what was not mentioned in

  the keynote they didn't mention the mac

  pro upgrade which was like yeah 10 of

  them bigger hurts really bad monkey like

  a couple extra preparation holes in the

  case may be and yeah that's about it


  yeah no holes for newports though no

  darkness of the handles all of it but

  did you see that they're there was one

  of those uh angry Apple customers who

  writes to the CEO and it gets a message

  back and publishes tim cook you know

  back to somebody who it may have been

  John under a different name cable has ah

  yeah and he was a not to worry we're

  working on

  I don't have the quote but we're working

  on this something for later next year is

  so interesting for many reasons right

  like it just to hear Apple put a

  timeframe to anything for any reason was

  pretty surprising right like they would

  never rest funny this came directly

  after doubling down on secrecy right I

  get it and I was like that's an

  interesting direction

  yeah but I'm I don't know how to John

  how did you feel about that email from

  tim cook it may John have made John have

  yeah no matter yeah right but I don't

  think it necessarily means new mac pros

  like he didn't say we have new mac pro's

  coming through

  he said he just something that has

  always think it's like something that

  solves the problem of people who want

  new man froze so who knows what that

  could mean do you use both optical

  drives it

  yes to do of my whole life I wanted to

  meet somebody who's this girl particles


  yeah so it all worked down this was

  worth it

  yeah that was unfair haha so next up on

  the on the hit parade in quino's

  mountain lion

  yeah which maybe if there's anything

  surprising with the Kenai also part of

  the type presentation is a craig

  federighi has suddenly gotten really

  really good incredibly good like he went

  from two years ago first time he was on

  stage was the back to the mac writing

  well held on Apple's campus where they

  first announced well I guess lion right

  and he infamously had like a real shaky

  hand on the mouse and he's really kind

  of like all-wise yeah I couldn't click

  on what you supposed to click to because

  he like shakes that's that would be me

  and now he's up there and he looks aces

  yeah you know yet if it wasn't an ad-lib

  it was brilliant when he did the game

  center thing is right is a game show my

  name was like that was it here for sore

  because great victory has a wonderful

  wonderful head full of hair here

  I mean it is like everybody last and he

  just goes yeah like I made that up

  alright was a good line I even got

  laughs and he was but he wasn't really

  good yeah that wasn't president that

  wasn't that was a solid team those that

  team of people is really good and I

  think you know we we we miss Bertram I

  mean everybody loved Bertram yeah I but

  it's hard to imagine Bertrand doing a

  half hour of the keynote like that i

  mean he would still like half an hour

  anyone still been talking about like

  feature one on the list I mean for John

  is great but he's very slow speaker

  right right yeah it was awesome dude

  that everybody did an incredible job


  yeah and like i said in my little piece

  yesterday that they're sort of i think

  they're you know clearly becoming a

  walking and chewing gum at the same time

  company that they've got two major OS

  updates in one year whereas years ago

  they had to actually just issue a

  statement and said you know what we

  gotta we gotta delay the mac price the

  Mac os10 update by seven months because

  all the good and evil are working on the

  iphone the only thing that makes me

  Miley nervous about the velocity is that

  every now and then we get that feeling

  that it might just be going a little bit

  too fast and I know that but at that

  counter is what you're saying about that

  you know i mean it was unfortunate when

  they have

  delay and all this other stuff but

  sometimes it feels like the speed is

  just like there's no looking back

  and there's no you know EG know what I'm

  talking about like maybe it's more the

  developer side we encounter this more

  but I don't know it

  I as a user is great because they're

  adding an incredible amount of new

  features all the time and everybody wins

  use the platform but sometimes it's

  pretty rough of the developers sometimes

  things are not quite probably where they

  should like like in the middle years of

  mac OS 10 like the first couple years it

  was an annual schedule right and then it

  was like a unofficial like about seem

  like about two years and maybe they

  would shoot for 18 months but it would

  slip and in about two years was a much

  more comfortable pace your OS updates

  yeah hopefully they can get these yearly

  releases and they can be just rock solid

  and amazing

  no I also that's my paw it wasn't much

  new announced with mountain lion now

  know that we didn't know from when they

  took the curtains off it back in

  February dictation yeah dictation is no

  I and III did verify it is the same

  rules as a iOS where you have to have a

  net connection ocean it around trips the

  same engine same everything right

  exactly the same

  I'm yeah but little things but nothing

  that we didn't really know makes sense


  yeah and then ios6 yeah so what you

  think of iOS 6 this I mean there's a lot

  of really cool stuff

  let's talk about well the two things

  that really excited me were actually the

  thing that excites me almost more than

  anything else is passbook for some

  reason I don't know why I think I've

  always had this dream of not having my

  wallet and this is just very slightly

  closer to that and and with when I saw

  that I immediately said to myself you

  know when that iphone5 comes out and

  it's got the NFC and it's like you know

  take replaces my debit card and replace

  my credit card it is my dream of course

  but like it seemed like this is the

  halfway point to that and so I'm really

  hoping that's the in-game because i

  don't want to have a wallet i just want

  to have my phone I want everything to be

  on there now getting that to work with

  every merchant in the universe and these

  terrible somebody I think it's steve has

  one of those

  wells fargo debit card that has like

  it's called payWave or something where

  you're like certain merchants have this

  little logo and you're supposed to just

  be able to slap your car there and so

  just for his own cell phone music he

  tries it every time it's never worked

  once and every time the people the

  counter like I don't know what that's


  you know you're like oh yeah that's

  never worked or whatever so if their

  faith that's that's the one thing that

  makes me nervous about my dreams like

  it's one thing to make the technology

  and have a great UI and put it in the

  hardware but getting it in the chops

  I don't know that seems like an uphill

  battle yet calling a halfway step is it

  i think exactly right and i think a lot

  of the problems that Apple the biggest

  problems apple is facing are these

  things that require multiple very

  different things to be alignment so

  retina display max is a perfect example

  and where you've got to solve the

  technology problem making a display that

  big with all those pixels and have it be

  good so that's a just a pure hardware

  engineering things you've got to have

  the OS ready to support it and then

  you've got to have all the designers

  actually go and make all of that artwork

  every single piece of artwork in the

  entire OS again again yeah and it's not

  just like double the work is harder

  because it's going to be four times

  bigger so it's gotta look better

  did you find it doesn't take a lot

  longer to make retina caliber you I

  graphics um you know with our workflow

  you know and and how just using shape

  layers in photoshop and kind of being

  vector-based behind-the-scenes anyways

  it's not that much harder for us there

  was some parts of our process were

  harder like the web pages were a little

  bit harder because it's just a little

  not something we're using up the Dakota

  and co2 webpages are totally written

  right because we figured people will be

  looking at these on the ipad and they

  look awesome but that was just slightly

  weird because we weren't used to it but

  you know we did it

  everybody worked hard never worked hard

  and can you work hard and everybody

  worked hard it's just doable you just

  crank through it but what the heck are

  you talking about

  ok I was six yeah and the wallet yeah be

  a pass/pass book and a half way point I

  yes so I think the halfway point is to

  get the have the app maybe it's more

  than halfway but and your partner's yeah

  right but right now ever

  everything seems to be scanner base your

  QR codes are code and it's all you wave

  it you gotta go if you hit the baseball

  ticket you gotta press all getting

  scammed by like a red red infrared laser

  thing i also have a related story that

  makes me nervous about that future is

  because i want alaska airlines has an

  app that lets you get your boarding pass

  on your phone which sounded really cool

  to me because I hate printing boarding

  passes and i always forget I could do it

  in the car and so we're on the way to

  the airport and I got the boarding

  passes all ready to go and my wife and

  son and I wade through the security line

  we get to the front and i'm sure they

  got a phone and he just kind of uh yeah

  we don't have that scanner like we just

  don't have that and I'm cool but

  supposed to do know something like you

  need to go print a boarding pass and I

  think so we literally had to leave print

  boarding passes wait for the entire

  security line again and the down and

  this gets to my point about you know the

  implementation being the challenge

  because if you just having that one

  failure i knew i would never try it

  again right because if there's a

  one-percent chance that i'm going to get

  to the end of that long line and it's

  not gonna work i'm not gonna do I'm

  gonna use the thing I'm most familiar

  with so that part makes me nervous as

  well and I thought Scott Forstall was

  pretty it open and honest about one of

  the downsides of the whole way it is now

  with a bunch of separate apps which is

  that if it's not on your first or second

  iphone screen I mean write it right kind

  of lost and it's like it's the worst

  times you've got all these people behind

  you and everybody wants to get on a

  plane and you're the guy said are

  exactly opening up your folders and


  uh-huh I what I did as a side note

  though send a sternly worded letter and

  got fifty dollar credit the left

  Caroline so it's totally worth it

  yeah i do it again fifty bucks a pop but

  i do that and we've never even used the

  thing yet but i do think that everybody

  is already thinking well this is gonna

  work even better once the NFC stuff is

  hooked up and you just wave the phone

  and because the other part of it with

  the NFC stop is it's not enough to just

  have it in the phone like I'm sure

  anybody from google can tell you that

  having a phone doesn't mean you get to

  use it right right i right

  how's that stuff gone for them have you

  ever tried it I well I wallet but now I

  realize that although I did see it pits

  today that peach takes the google wallet


  but I don't know how it works but with

  the other happens you've got to have

  partners retail partners who are going

  to do the handshake and have the

  hardware there so that the your phone

  that can do it right there's somebody

  there to listen right into it

  I the other thing that stuck out to me

  was I don't know why because it's just

  something I I've always been unsure

  whether Apple would do is add

  pull-to-refresh to mail yeah what did

  you think about that you have you use it

  you have a you have you put the bait on

  the animation looks crazy but I haven't

  seen it yet mom so I was playing with it

  over somebody had it on the phone and I

  got to play with it and there it is

  different than everybody else's because

  there's you have to pull further ok and

  once you pull that far the Refresh

  happens you know it doesn't and tobago

  it doesn't activate on letting go

  it activates on once you will do a

  certain distance which doesn't feel

  right now that doesn't seem like the

  action is that when we're talking about

  early like like the shotgun reloading

  you gotta have that double you know

  yeah it doesn't seem like triggering

  something at the end of the gesture

  really feels natural right yeah so we

  had a little tableside discussion at

  WWDC and and opinion seemed very split

  on why that is very one is that it's

  reading the letter of Twitter's

  pull-to-refresh patent owner

  so interesting and that they determined

  that if they do it not on letdown but on

  just pull that it's not in violation of

  the patent that seems silly to me but

  all software patent easily to me didn't

  they say they weren't going to do

  anything negative with those patents or

  whatever yeah but I don't think apples


  yeah you know they're not you know if

  you want to have illegal and probably

  Twitter guys are never gonna do anything

  and apples always be okay well fine know

  that if they wrote a blog post cool was

  only ur so is it patent sir convention

  which really stinks if it I I don't

  think so

  or is it a lack of humility on the part

  of disarmament Apple II hope who you

  said yeah we can't do exactly what

  Lauren Brickner invented Brett sweetie

  it's gotta be we got it we're gonna

  brush it lightly different right now

  it's good you got it's ours right

  I don't know now it don't have they

  shown that humility before I mean is

  there any track record to slight tweaks

  well I they've stolen something while

  ripped off was a better copied something

  like you know the coded tabs i think

  they took without changing

  oh the selection state right and there

  was a slight change

  I don't think its institutional I do

  think though that a personal level it

  could be that somebody on the male team

  yeah did not want think you're an exact

  duplication of it that's a pretty solid


  yeah yeah but even so even though it's

  not i don't think it's a ideal

  pull-to-refresh I'm so glad that it's

  there because i have pulled a refreshing

  mail on my iPhone so many times all i

  got one today

  yeah maybe they login event like

  diagnostic thing and you have somebody

  did that and they're like shit we got it

  I wonder maybe a hundred thousand today

  and one of them even ah the other

  feature the one other feature from iOS

  it well that we could talk about maps

  oh yeah i mean is that I i tried the 3d

  it was incredible

  like it looked amazing on the ipad

  Portland wasn't mapped for some reason

  so super bummed out because i couldn't

  3d around Portland but they'll get there

  right now there's been some careful

  about the

  the bikes and the walking being gone

  right and transit and all that stuff and

  there's like a bee petition of course

  already like because those are always

  incredibly effective and it's you know

  apple bring back transit matlab think

  this is kind of trend that I've noticed

  lately where people just assume it's

  something is missing or broken but it's

  intentional malice every time like it's

  a really fascinating thing to witness I

  mean we see it too it's like sometimes

  things are just broken or missing you

  know it's not always like a conspiracy

  but what exactly does the petition want

  Apple to do go back to google and single

  now let us switch to google maps when

  you're not walking right direction the

  assumption is that they literally

  intentionally removed it because they

  didn't think people wanted it anymore

  which is totally false right i mean it's

  just a matter of their building their

  own mapping solution from scratch they

  haven't presumably gotten to it yet

  that's my assumption it is the maps are

  beautiful yeah they do look far better

  and the 3d stuff seems and I think it

  seems genuinely useful

  yeah but I don't have much to say about

  that i mean it's sort of like one of

  those things where it's been rumored for

  so long and it came out exactly as we

  thought it would be okay

  yeah the turn-by-turn directions is that

  something you use every when you driver

  now I I don't have never used

  turn-by-turn directions when i drive

  because i have an unerring sense of

  direction that I played a lot of Zelda

  as a kid so I can find my way around

  pretty well yea is my wife out there is

  my wife listening she's probably rolling

  I assume you're being sarcastic

  yeah I have a terrible sense of like I

  just the other day I we were we were

  driving to her family it's about 50

  miles outside the city and I pulled off

  her halfway to get gas and then we came

  back out of the gas station and I got on

  this google expressway heading east back

  to Philadelphia and I happen to be an

  exit that's like nine miles from the

  next exit

  yes I I probably do need so maybe you

  should use a script by turn directions

  okay I but it seems pretty good i've

  heard I don't know if anybody can drive

  heard a rumor that it's like license

  from tomtom yeah somebody that's in the

  like little settings general

  whatever sort of in the same way that

  the dictation is licensed around the

  Dragon Dictate people

  yep engine I think it's kind of like a

  sign of Apple like being willing to say

  well we just want the best thing we

  don't have to do it all ourselves and

  bring the pieces together right yeah but

  that's weird because in the past they

  were generally acquire those companies

  right requires companies it's weird to

  see them give more credit right and sort

  of have working relationship since yeah

  I'm really surprised that they haven't

  acquired dragon just because it seems

  like whatever dragons were thought to be

  able to just write it totally right it

  can't be that big huh

  and in the last I OS six feature that

  really caught my eye was the new stuff

  in Serie and bring it to the ipad you're

  a sports fan

  are you excited about the sports date I

  I really was i hope it works out how

  many field goals the myths may be united

  world bowl I because I hope really know

  much about sports

  yeah but that it looks cool yeah I am I

  think and I think that the the way that

  they're doing it to me is clearly a

  competitive against Google m and so how

  how would you go about replacing google

  i doing your own search engine

  well I don't think Apple it would ever

  ever just do a google search engine

  right and to be better than google

  you've got to be good at like a hundred

  thousand different things that people

  search for ya so they're not so if you

  just want to do a web search you still

  go to Google which is the best right

  what they're doing is biting off like

  this long tail

  we're like 999 thousands of those things

  they don't have to worry about and

  everybody just do weather sports and

  restaurants yeah you know it's like

  things people search for on their phone

  all the time and all of a sudden with

  like just five or six thing yep it's an

  awful lot of the reason that people use

  google under fire for sure right the

  movies the movies in the restaurants

  thing alone has got to be like and more

  partnerships that right because the

  restaurant stuff came from yelp i

  thinkyeah the restaurant stuff comes

  from yelp and the sports stuff comes

  from yahoo right and that it's just all

  I saw was a little why in the corner is

  amazing and I just realized that as i

  like a little like side

  dang it just shows how low Yahoo's

  fallen in the tech world where we're

  yahoo had some technology right in the

  Big Apple Keynote ready never even got a

  mentor and he meant it

  yeah all they got was a little tiny why

  an exclamation mark in a corner of a

  screenshot maybe if you tap it takes you

  to the yahoo i'm sure does but no you

  don't get your horoscope

  yeah and it does seem I always call it

  marketing spite and maybe that's unfair

  but this the way that Apple is doling

  out which features go to which devices

  yeah and it has gotten very complicated

  it was like one of the last things I

  link to before coming here to do the

  show was a checkmark matrix at mac OS


  macrumors saying here's all these new

  features in iOS here's which devices get

  them and I didn't I haven't seen that

  yet but didn't make sense some you know

  it doesn't make sense so for example the

  3gs games nothing except that it gets to

  run iOS 6 but it doesn't even get VIP

  email list what right so the feature is

  called VIP email you can pick some I

  cable sasser I say you're a VIP then I

  go with you should do this right Hans I

  think everybody should add cable to

  their vid2c really appreciate that i

  make me feel very special because you're

  much like me with email where if you get

  one ever responds it's actually very


  yeah if you get a response right I'm but

  at it why Williams they'd bring that I

  don't know it certainly isn't because

  the thing is a glassed enough it could

  be like a hardware chip to keep that

  list and it's right so like a lack of

  flyover mode and maps make it right

  alright perfect understand what you need

  like a real fancy to a lot of Oregon's


  VIP no boy it seems really spicy so we

  know that they've done this before I

  mean they've held back features to

  encourage adoption of new devices right

  so that's right nice is right it's yeah

  I call it marketing spite but maybe

  spite is too strong a word it's just

  you know how to make a hundred billion

  dollars okay all right

  hey right i think that's it for the Kino

  news i want to talk to you

  yeah about koda and diet koda and

  everything else shanik is doing but in

  the meantime I want to take a timeout

  here and I want to thank our friends at

  media temple mediatemple you guys are

  drinking on their dime


  they've got some really cool

  announcements they're doing some great

  stuff with my friends and mule radio

  syndicate they have a contest of all

  sorts of stuff but i'll let i will let

  Russ reader explain it to you

  alright thanks John great job guys

  it's been great to sit back and listen

  also talked to a lot of media temple

  customers today so thank you very much

  meal radio thank you and who we have

  heard people to put up their hands for

  new iphone years ago and a new appletv

  who is going to get the retina and we're

  gonna get the macbook right now you know

  good Chuck hands out there

  yeah alright so mediatemple lost maybe

  yeah right who wants one

  how about not going to who would you

  like one alright so mediatemple know

  John doesn't do anything kind of halfway

  so what media temple is going to do is

  if you go to the blog tomorrow or follow

  us on twitter

  we're gonna give away a macbook pro

  retina tomorrow if you use Gruber as the

  code so definitely follow us and a lot

  of people last one we're talking to some

  customers out there they asked will hear

  us why are you why are you why are you

  are you going to sponsor something here

  at the WWDC well this is a great place

  for for media temple to get your at apps

  and websites hosted especially as you go

  more towards that the high bred or even

  a webapp kind of approach

  alright we got about 2 million websites

  out there a lot of you guys already

  customers and we just really appreciate

  the designer and developer community

  that's where we started that's where we

  are we're a bunch of Engineers ourselves

  and just want to thank everyone out

  there so a John thank you very much

  and so just once again to get entered in

  a contest the code is groover gruv ER

  and I use that as a promo code on every


  all right it doesn't work very often and

  tomorrow you go to the media temple blog

  and what do you do so go to the media

  temple we're gonna have all the

  information out there and if you you can

  either come on and it will be a

  twenty-five percent discount to get

  media temple services or you could just

  put in grouper and they'll be a link

  there to actually to try to get a media

  temple I macbook pro retina without even

  buying anything so on on we will have

  all you go right to media temple and use

  the code grouper tomorrow to buy your

  next host service or if you want details

  on how to get the macbook pro retina

  without having to buy media temple

  service you can follow us on the to

  check out our blog tomorrow

  nice try and those of you listening at

  home who are not here in the event this

  is good for you to this is not just for

  attendees of the event but shame on you

  for not being here

  haha alright thanks guys thank you thank

  you very much thank you so much

  cool very cool twenty-five percent

  discount and a chance to win and was

  like an old-time radio commercial break

  yeah i really liked it

  I so what at the outset of the show you

  you mentioned that you made a deliberate

  effort years ago to go pro focus

  yeah and and I thought that was

  interesting you're saying that the it

  was a strategic idea that the way you

  avoid getting steamrolled by apple

  yes to stay out of the consumer space

  that's right and that was I mean it was

  it wasn't exactly is just a very organic

  decision because we knew that you know

  Apple was was exploding their software

  efforts and you know they made some

  software before but things like I life

  and all of these apps were coming out of

  nowhere at a rapid pace so yeah we it

  was kind of like a conscious

  the decision was we we have to try to do

  things that are apps that are bigger

  apps that are a more complex and apps

  that are more Pro users so and that's

  sort of you know transmit we push more

  in that direction and dakota was really

  the first of and you know that was that

  was sort of the culmination of that plan

  was this is a big honkin app it you know

  and I thought of you and we covered this

  five years ago but the original name of

  transmitted was Tranzit transit which

  makes so much more sense with the truck


  still I'm still kind of mad about that

  and it was like a legal dispute over

  somebody else who claim your own the

  trademark so you added the end which is

  pretty pretty subtle just added them

  right but then I thought of you and the

  keynote yesterday because apple had a

  slide up when they were talking about

  their new maps and the fact that you

  don't get turn-by-turn directions or

  they said Tranzit apps great and I

  thought you were part of my brain is

  what right I'll God not that one to keep

  it up

  what next i wiII every year we joke that

  the big new feature mac OS is a built-in

  HTML development or whatever you know I

  mean I realize the odds are pretty slim

  at this point but yeah ever since the

  infamous uh itunes keno and we knew that

  was coming right so while i was

  surprised that it was still just like

  such a classic apple like I could I can

  still hear it in my mind like I remember

  the infamous like and we have this great

  idea where what if you could visualize

  music no one's ever done this before

  looking for like mom it's just the

  visualizer yeah so anyways um yeah

  transit production it is true that like

  I look at the panic suite of software

  the way you guys offer and it's like I

  think of when I think of a panic i

  really i think of the interfaces first

  and I don't think that's a surprise i

  think I mean everybody agree that I mean

  that's what the whole point that the

  whole point is what if we didn't and put

  insane attention on sure interface like

  just over-the-top and even more than

  apple shirt like this incredible

  attention to these utterly minor details

  and in a very friendly way I think

  your software is is almost a reflection

  of your personality it's like a friendly

  it's nice it laughs out of it before but

  it is like seriously nerdy stuff right

  like is that you know you don't think

  about that it's just very very consumer

  e him look and style over so I'm it's

  increasingly right specific yeah and

  it's interesting and I like I said

  earlier I kind of Miss the consumer

  level stuff i kinda I mean it'd be nice

  to make something that my parents can

  use on their iphones or you know that my

  wife would use on her is not they're not

  developing websites on their iPad or

  whatever you know so I it's it's it's

  super rewarding because it's nice to its

  it's a really fun process to have this

  really complicated thing you want to

  make but then try to wrap it around this


  I mean it's like one of the hardest

  things it's very difficult and it takes

  a lot of work and it's not easy but when

  you're done

  I mean you know it feels great so I like

  that process but yeah it'd be nice to

  balance it out a little bit more be nice

  to go back and and with diet Kota you

  you really die code is our iPad yeah

  well established this okay all right my

  theory is that oh maybe you guys were on

  the fence about whether you should do

  kota for the ipad but then somebody came

  up with the name

  ahahahha and you knew you had to do it

  I'm feel the funny thing is we can't

  even remember who coined that in the

  office but the the wii it's funny the

  thing about diet cola was people kept

  asking us for and if you people ask us

  for apps all the time right you should

  make an email client you should make it

  whatever but when it came to I want to

  do hmm on my iPad everybody said the

  exact same thing I want to make quick

  fixes to websites on my iPad verbatim

  that is the quote that everybody

  independently use and that is why the

  website says make quick fixes to her

  website on your iPad it's like people

  came up with this marketing slogan for

  us and it was that definitely cemented

  it right it's like people will

  apparently want to do this

  yeah well and that's interest and I

  think it goes back to the

  original iPad introduction event where

  steve jobs even said you know here's

  your macbook here's your phone is there

  room in the middle

  yes we think so but we're not even sure

  what that is yeah I kept up on my

  desktop for the past two and a half

  years I kept a bookmark to an article

  that was a room overview of the original

  iPad and the guy was really down on it

  and I specifically remember him saying

  is anybody ever gonna make a webpage on

  ipad like that

  hey so I kept it on my desktop just like

  my own little motivator don't even know

  who this guy hits but maybe I should

  send him an email down just be like

  right after you

  no no we we did it no give me the URL

  and I'll clam chowder

  huh now we're talking sponsored claim

  shattered right here that how much for a

  claim chowder

  yeah I don't know you're very good at it

  but I did notice something here

  something i knows what i was looking at

  your website and in the title tag maybe

  you can fix it with code is on right now

  in the title tag yeah at panic com it

  says panic haha shockingly good mac


  yeah that that I think it's a bug right

  weekend but it does but your price still

  primarily yeah overall for sure a mac

  software come right it's true i have

  very little is a guy I immediately want

  to leave stage and fix that right so i

  kinda wish you hadn't brought it up

  right now would you change it to him

  never can you fix them are you out there

  yeah which it i mean mean that's a

  really good question i mean the the

  probably just mac and iOS offer but is

  there something better

  probably just software maybe just

  software shandra software yeah dammit i

  really want to fix that now I and i

  think i think that there's a while

  hey we're walking and chewing gum angle

  with you guys now to you guys have

  gotten bigger

  sure I mean you guys have a bunch of

  designers or at least you would have a

  couple yeah I'm chiaro yeah

  yeah so you used to design everything

  and now you've got other people you've

  got T my god yes well and and and so

  this process has been strangely

  stressful for me like that i don't i'm

  not a dude that gets super stressed out

  easily but like with trying to work on

  Kota to and I could at the same time

  shooting for a simultaneous ship date it

  was really challenging and I mean

  developing them testing them and what

  really threw me for a loop was just the

  uncertainty of Apple I mean the first

  time we've really been beholden to the

  review process in a significant way

  times to you know and and I don't know

  if you saw in our blog we timed out this

  hawaii trip right so that we could you

  know I I promise everybody that we go to

  Hawaii when we finish these apps and

  somehow i was a man of my word and we

  went to Hawaii while the app store in

  review but I did not

  relax also contribute in any way shape

  or form because stuff just kept coming

  out like I i mentioned this but like I

  don't know i'm sitting on the beach i

  get my we've been rejected again email

  because we showed that on the first

  launch screen we ask you if you want to

  turn on iCloud or not and we show the

  iCloud logo and what that's a trademarks

  apple logo and so I actually fix that

  one myself with by opening up the nib

  and like just deleting the initiatives

  and I checked in and the build server

  built a new one and I actually literally

  submitted it from the airport boarding

  the flight and it was like a scene from

  the world's shittiest action movie

  because I'm like I have like four

  minutes to go and it's like uploading

  API usage and I gotta come on you know

  and I like you know last call for

  whatever it was so bad but um yea it

  that really threw us for a loop if there

  are there a lot of first with this

  process for us and so that was a

  definite challenge but you know i'm

  super excited about it and everybody is

  so smart and work so hard and cares so

  much about the finished product and i'm

  super lucky for that was it the plan all

  along to have coded to and diet kota

  come out at the same time always always

  always when when did kota one ship like

  it was kinda was like 2007

  seriously 2007 and the hard thing about

  it was actually let me tell you a story

  of another source of stress but i'll set

  the scene for you

  Portland has a lot of food carts all

  around the town down the street from my

  dad's house is a food cart that serves I

  think it's a filipino food this is

  seriously going somewhere relevant um my

  dad you know walking around the

  neighborhood and talk to all the people

  in the neighborhood and you went to the

  food cart and the guy was like a Steve

  what's up and you know they were talking

  about the neighborhood and the guys like

  oh hey uh my friend a question for you

  my dad's like what is it is like John

  wins co2 coming out i wanted to have

  this like are you kidding me

  like what I that happened a lot and I'm

  glad to have that problem i'm really

  glad people are excited about our

  products but it was clear to me that we

  took too long and I think what people

  don't understand is that we were working

  on one thing and then working on another

  thing and they expect from a major

  company not a major company from any

  company you know simultaneous

  development and so people working on

  transmit people working at codon that

  wasn't the case for us like we finished

  koda and we did a bunch of updates and

  we got to 1.7 and we felt good about it

  and then ok now let's work on transmit

  for and that took about a year and a

  half and in people for us it was a

  couple years of development for

  everybody who use the app it was four

  years you know right so it it was

  intense and people were here

  look up sheet but they're not all went

  away once we ship so that's good

  well and that the thing that I think is

  very interesting about and you guys are

  sort of Trailblazers here it is i got

  known territory is me and you don't

  really have to take a look at your books

  to know that if your version was in 2007

  and version 2 isn't 2012 right that

  upgrade revenue is an important part of

  the business of xi'an developer that you

  you know people who bought the app in

  2007 and you put all this effort into it

  you need upgrade revenue froze happy

  existing users and that's how companies

  like Panik who was you know what 15

  years in business now something close to

  that was you know a way that you

  sustained as you get happy users and

  especially with the protools type there

  and you sell upgrades and now you're

  doing it in an app store right doesn't

  support paid upgrades right that was a

  challenge so you what was the solution

  that you guys came up with and so we you

  know we did a three-pronged thing so the

  first day we just decided to be fifty

  percent off for everybody right and that

  was huge for us

  I'm in in two ways I mean we sold a lot

  the dark side I I joke that was six

  months of sales compressed into a single

  day it was also six months of

  tech-support compressed it to thank all

  day and so those guys in not having a

  great time right now but I'm then we

  sort of decided we'll just the only

  thing we can do is lower the price of

  the app for everyone for a period of

  time so our solution to that was upgrade

  pricing for everyone for an

  indeterminate period of time I I

  honestly don't know how long that's

  gonna last people vast I have no idea

  like a month two months I don't know but

  it's the only thing that I could think


  right like what else are we gonna do I

  there's the upgrades don't exist anymore

  does apple apple doesn't get upgrade

  revenue from anything anymore right

  it's full price every time well I Apple

  gets their upgrade revenue when you buy



  to mac right new iphone i mean that's

  and you know they cheat i mean is you

  know it's a good business model for them

  right but everything hinges on the fact

  that all of their software they don't

  need to charge updates for because

  you're running in on a

  two-thousand-dollar or a thousand-dollar

  eight-hundred-dollar phone that you've

  already paid for and we've always just

  assumed that the only reason they don't

  offer upgrades is because they don't

  need them right so why would they

  but yeah it's a strange new world now no

  doubt about it but the downside of it is

  that so effectively though kota to is a

  new product or any app store

  yes moto one is no longer in the

  appstore correct right because there's

  no other way to do it they can people

  can still read download it you know we

  didn't like delete the app but it's not

  available for sale where I was

  nerve-racking simple oh wait so you can

  do that you know you could do that so

  when am i right

  can anyone i hope i'm right like what do

  I look to market immediately yeah I

  think I i removed it from all the

  territories so as far as i know the app

  is somewhere but you can't buy it and

  yeah could you guys fix a bug

  we have to load actually don't know what

  would you get an update i'll try it

  okay I want everyone to Helen all things

  because i won't otherwise that's like up

  real high pressure release this is like

  this is the relieving kodaline yeah and

  you want to do the right thing for the

  customers which is give them a stable

  release that they can use forever right

  on the other hand they're kind of it's

  kind of hard for you guys to get excited

  about the people who aren't buying the


  alright we're not gonna do I mean the

  only thing I could possibly see us do is

  if there's some kind of major security

  problem and Kota won or something then

  maybe we consider it but certainly no

  features certainly no development

  yeah so my favorite feature in in diet

  code how many people here have tried

  diet anyone traveling oh nice that's

  always great at taking tests that's

  super cool

  my favorite feature far and away is the

  loop yeah I don't know if you call it a

  loop the super loop the super Lou a

  great name

  yeah it is so good and it is so much

  better than the built-in iOS text set

  its selection loop so just to set the

  stage what I mean is you know everybody

  should know when you're in iOS and you

  want to place the insertion point in a

  text field you press and hold your

  finger and a little loop appears

  magnifying above it and then you can see

  and precisely place it and you know it's

  you know it's like the size of like an

  okay yeah thing with your finger here

  yeah very hard right yeah in kota or Die

  akota it is the full width of the text

  editing curled yep and it snaps two

  lines it is not just like freeform it it

  is a completely understands the idea

  that text is composed of lines and

  you're looking at one line at a time

  when you see the full with loomed up and

  there's the the panache of the the next

  and previous lines being distorted

  operating right that's my favorite

  feature to always the thing this is kind

  of a classic panic thing because we knew

  we wanted to fix the problem of the

  insertion point and so we're talking

  about full length and then I i did this

  like super-quick photoshop mock-up of

  what the lens looks like and then sort

  of handed over to Dave to implement and

  then without saying a word he did all

  the opengl stuff just like I never said

  it needs to make me I never expected

  that but um he just it just was assumed

  that of course you're going to magnify

  the lines and like warp and distort them

  and so that was just as kind of an

  awesome moment treasure it after using

  it it really I'd never really given

  thought to it before but all of us on

  much like the best

  don't like once you've used the retina

  display and then you go back to the old

  ones like all that's terrible once i use

  the diet kodalu awesome using the

  regular loop and any other app on the

  iPad feels awful Astros constrain its

  ruined i'm glad to hear that i love the

  number of emails we get though about I

  sure hope Apple steals that what

  happened do you really about that seems

  kind of mean that i understand i totally

  understand but I really like you to come

  i really do hope Apple steals yeah like

  in mail

  yeah I like pull-to-refresh hmm i feel

  like that you think they're going to

  tweak it a little bit of it

  I don't know yeah there's my question

  and it's inverse distortions be right

  and maybe instead of going to full with

  your writing better run click around

  record Horner right i think they will

  say that the square corners are gone

  what will check in the next podcast in

  five years you couldn't speak what

  happened what else whatever I mean any

  other stories about developing an ipad

  version of a mac app like I mean it was

  it's it's a ton

  it's just a lot of work to to think

  about like I mean there's not even

  really a text you ate like we have to

  start starting from square one but we

  knew we wanted to write a terminal so we

  kind of made prompt and that was sort of

  a part of everything you know but I'm it

  was a total rethink it was like we knew

  what we're going to do the same feature

  set we knew this was like again quick

  fixes on the go

  what do we need to pare it down to and

  uh how do we make it awesome i don't

  know if you saw the most experimental

  thing and I'm still not sure if it was a

  great idea but it's been really fun

  seeing people's reactions to it is the

  method in which you pair your ipad with

  your mac we have this thing called air

  preview that lets you use your iPad as a

  preview window and I haven't talked

  about this before we got i became my my

  weird obsession was pairing and how I'm

  just tired of the pin numbers and can we

  do anything cooler than pin numbers and

  we tried everything imagine

  although we started with knock three

  times on the ipad we thought with the

  accelerometer or the microphone like you

  know somehow you knock three times we

  got so close on that but it was like it

  would trigger a gesture and all sorts of

  trouble would happen and that was

  disappointing and we tried this and that

  and what we actually ended up doing was

  using the camera and so you open air

  preview on the mac and this psychedelic

  window appears that cycles through

  colors and that is synced over Bonjour

  with the ipad and you just hold your

  iPad up to the screen and it just pairs

  right because it's looking for red

  yellow green blue whatever i'm not sure

  it's a great idea but it was super fun

  and some people that there's not really

  any feedback which i think is a problem

  like you don't really know if it's

  working or not as we've had people like

  using the wrong camera and like I've

  been sitting here for 15 minutes then

  what's happening and but then those

  emails like what the hell man i am

  freaking out right now like a literally

  people losing their minds about this

  like what kind of sorcery like how did

  this like that having no idea how it

  works and and that was my dream like

  that was my goal like I did it kinda

  wanted to freak people out about so in

  some ways mission accomplished

  I don't know how long it's going to stay

  that way halfway through we're like

  outweigh the ipad one doesn't have a

  camera haha so we implemented the pin

  numbers looks like God full circle twice

  the work

  yeah anyways I really appreciate

  everybody tryin yeah sometimes you gotta


  yeah so the the other app store related

  bugaboo that that you guys have

  navigated I think very smartly but it's

  still up making the best out of a tough

  scenario is the fact that I cloud is

  only available to apple apps and you

  guys are still wisely you know with your

  mac software selling it on your own

  related to customers from your website

  and having the same version in the app

  store for people who prefer the app

  store right which is very very common

  for mac developers but that means you've

  got a really cool feature like you know

  got this

  I cloud syncing so once you setup your

  site yeah if you're signed in to iCloud

  you not just on another mac now you can

  go to an ipad eventually yeah it's not

  quite there yet but and actually bailed

  out at the last second we had iCloud

  totally working in diet kota but it was

  not I cloud has been a challenge for us

  but um the that's been tough on some

  customers and some customers don't

  realize that when they want to switch

  versions or they wanna uh and also now

  we've had the inverse because I cloud

  has been a little unreliable on the mac

  some people kind of bummed out that

  their sights on how to the cloud and

  that the app is a little weird sometimes

  and you know it's been it's been a real

  challenge I think we were we should have

  probably waited Intel mountain lion to

  support iCloud I think they're still

  working out some kinks and uh as if

  anybody's considering supporting iCloud

  maybe wait until all mountain lion

  that's my advice but yeah that's that

  all we could do was say get it from the

  mac app store and you get iCloud or get

  it from us and you don't do you have a

  strong preference like if somebody came

  up to you and said I'm going to buy coda

  right now and tell me which way to buy I

  want to do it the way that makes you

  happier i literally have a fully neutral

  answer because I don't know that I want

  to load that up and I because I

  basically say it's totally up to you if

  you buy it in the mac app store I my

  software on the mac app store

  I like having all my apps in one place i

  like the updating it's very convenient

  if you buy from us we get more money and

  you'll get updates faster which is a

  huge issue for some people like right

  now go to a one exists for direct users

  Apple hasn't even started reviewing it

  yet and this is really making people

  angry so now we have people that want to

  switch versions in the other direction

  it's it's kind of a disaster but I'm i

  have a fully neutral answer its total I

  say it's up to you and people like

  thanks for nothing lykia yeah it is that

  it is your honest opinion I it is my

  honest if I mean that you wouldn't be

  selling the stuff in the mac app store

  if you didn't want

  because i do I like the mac app store

  right but at the same time it's not

  perfect so I feel like providing both is

  the only fair way to approach it but I'm

  totally neutral

  what are you your mac app store man i

  I'm all over the place yeah because I do

  it because I feel like I i love the

  convenience in the single source for


  yeah and i love the especially now that

  I get stuff like a renewed computer and

  yeah like I get over his uniform apple i

  can go to the App Store and just go I

  need that I need that I need that hemp i

  but but then I get frustrated when I

  know like I know the development and I

  know they've already fixed the bug you

  but I don't have it because i don't have

  the mac app store version and have to


  it's also really surprising how few

  users understand that process and how

  few users understand that we have no

  control over the app review process like

  write everyday on twitter it's like what

  windows apple releasing to a one I have

  literally no idea right thank the

  reviewers are working in the moscone

  right now you know it'll never be a

  matter of so I don't know

  yeah are there any app store reviewers

  here in the audience haha that would be

  the stupidest hand-raised yeah in the

  history of Henry's an incredibly bad

  idea i actually asked our Apple contact

  after we shipped I'm like it is there

  any way i can send flowers to the

  reviewer because they worked so hard her

  like it is anybody was really nervous

  right haha they wouldn't tell me they

  were just like will pass along the

  sentiment it's not like here here's a

  feature that's the flip side so you know

  Gotye cloud syncing which is only in

  your App Store but now Mac abs in the

  appstore have to be sandbach Oh sandbox

  her and we could do a whole show about

  salmon one particular feature that

  matters for text editors is

  authenticated saves your if you want to

  save the aisle on your computer

  yep on your computer now

  remote on your computer but it requires

  an administrator password yeah

  in the old days you would just do a

  thing and in our box have come up and

  you would type your admin password and

  it would be saved and now you can't do


  yep so you've got a feature that the app

  support and it's like you kind of feel

  like you've gotta warn people before

  they buy the app store and we're going

  to get more and more complicated the

  warnings right i mean there's gonna be

  this is only the tip of the iceberg so

  yeah and so like the bottom line is that

  there really is no ideal verdict of the

  app because if you buy the one from

  panic com you can do authenticated saves

  and maybe two other stuff that the

  sandboxing you don't you don't have my

  cloud and you know right yeah that it's

  an interesting time it's a very

  interesting interesting time

  yeah well that's about it for me awesome

  i am so glad you're here

  I want to I want to do some thanks first

  I want to thank media temple once again


  we literally would not be here if they

  will if they hadn't generously sponsored

  this show so go to their website sign up

  with groover you save twenty five

  percent on anything you buy from any

  kind of service and you're entered to

  win not just a macbook pro the retina

  macbook brand which it's amazing

  unbelievable thank you so much i want to

  thank field notes field notes my friends

  include all there's a table full of

  field notes over there i'm using one

  right now i have run this entire so from

  there the finest notebooks in the world

  I they are free for everybody out there

  any left and they are free for anybody

  that's what they're there for you can

  just start throwing them at people i

  don't know but we take them they're the

  best notebooks in the world thank you to

  field notes i want to thank mule radio


  absolutely just as important as media

  temple sponsorship there is absolutely

  no way that I would have gotten this

  thing together if it wasn't that I was

  working with mule and I gym ray Mike

  Montero Katie Gilliam and especially our

  sound guy who used to be right there but

  he's had wandered away

  yeah the Caleb sexton back there with

  the he's got a very handsome beard haha

  but Caleb does the audio he does it on

  the weekly show to the regular ones and

  and and if you have any audio complaints

  i guarantee you it is either my fault or

  more likely John mulches fault haha ah

  and he takes r absolute crap audio and

  makes it sound so much better working on

  it but having everything that's good

  about the sound of the show is all

  Caleb and I thank him for that I want to

  thank black pixel black pixel our

  friends at black pixel I they've done

  the mule radio iphone app that lets you

  listen to all the mule radio shows all

  the podcast it's a free app the shows

  are free and it's a beautiful app it is

  just great

  if you don't already have it on your

  iphone shame on you you should get it

  right now it's a great app so thanks to

  black pixel I want to thank Jesse char

  yeah specific home from Pacific helm

  dot-com specific helm is a iOS small iOS

  developer shop it if your problem is you

  have an idea for an app you're

  developing an app but you what you want

  is like a killer Apple flash panic style

  yeah hyper attention to details are some

  guys going to sweat over like a pixels

  for three days the Pacific helm is a

  type of counseling from you want to talk

  to ya but she organized Jesse organized

  this event awesome and

  again it would not have happened

  otherwise cable my thanks to you for

  joining me for having me panic com thank

  you thank you so much thank you and now

  I've listened to the talk show and then

  last of all I want to thank all of you

  everybody was here think I'm so much it

  is absolutely a thrill to do this in

  front of you

  everybody out there who listens to the

  show thank you so much i can't thank all

  of you enough for being here

  I had a lot of fun i hope you didn't do

  it was awesome thank you for listening