The Talk Show

4: A Decent Thing That Someone Would Like, with MG Siegler


  beautiful blues with java i'm going to

  wish you a Happy android first day

  yes very happy android first day i'm

  glad glad the timing of this this

  episode surround the betta almost

  perfectly it was a movement six months

  ago six months ago Eric Schmidt very

  smartly made a couple of predictions

  yeah LOL so there were actually i think

  there were three right he made he

  obviously made the one saying that by

  this state you know he thought that uh

  android-developers a would kind of be

  sorry developers in general be focusing

  on Android first instead of iOS he he

  made the prediction that Google

  television or there would be the vast

  majority of TV's on the market would be

  running some form of google TV and what

  was the third thing all the there would

  be some sort of killer tablet this was

  sort of a weird one because like I think

  was translated from some some foreign

  press thing but uh something about a

  killer tablet coming out around this

  time that might be the one that he's

  only somewhat often i think i think they

  will have something along those lines

  that their upcoming io conference but

  still still not quite six months a

  little bit more than sex once I am I

  think that the the TV one in particular

  was that not that there would be half

  the tvs and use would have google TV but

  half the tvs and stores in the US with

  right have something I haven't been the

  best buy this week i have not been the

  best buy but i'm guessing if i did and i

  kept a tally and I'm guessing it's a

  little under fifty percent yeah they may

  have gotten a big shipment in yesterday

  I was worried about two weeks ago I i

  don't recall seeing any butter

  I'm sure I'm sure he had some reason to

  suggest that that this was actually

  going to happen and i'm sure we'll hear

  more about it at Google i/o again

  the kids have been complaining about

  this show the talk shows usually that it

  is rambling and unfocused those are the

  adjectives that come up a lot from

  people who don't seem to like it i have

  i have a bad feeling that this

  particular episode maybe the word smug

  is gonna come quick

  yeah that's a tough as they come up

  sometimes I my special guest this week

  i'm speaking to mg Siegler of Paris

  lemon fame and techcrunch in and various

  other endeavors and and I think you and

  I have a sort of shared reputation for

  4i i'm not sure how to describe it being

  poor poor sports right being you know

  not acknowledging androids winning ways

  many capacity I guess right all right

  and you know and I i think that you and

  I again this is so far this one of the

  talk show it's a lot of people who who

  I'm on the same page with but I think

  you you approach this the same way I do

  and you've done a lot of work with mike

  arrington who I have a funny

  relationship with but i do think though

  that one thing that the three of us

  agree on you mean you mike arrington is

  that you'd if you're writing about this

  stuff just call a spade a spade

  alright just lay it out there and I'm

  not gonna die i say to people I'm not

  going to sit here and bend over

  backwards to make somebody who's in

  second place seem like they're closer to

  first base first place than they really

  are just just because somebody thinks

  that's the way it should be

  yeah totally yeah i totally agree with

  that obviously and i think you know when

  we do get lumped into this this group

  that's some people feel is being unfair

  to guess the android camp it's you know

  it is just because that's the way we see

  it and I think for good reason and i

  think you know over time a lot of people

  have a have come over to this site as

  well but it's just got to be very

  frustrating for the

  those who see it a different way I guess

  and yeah i mean along those lines I

  remember what was the thing a few i

  guess it was a couple weeks ago where I

  think it was david poe grow some kind of

  review about some gadget I forget what

  it was i he might have been an android

  gadget maybe a windows phone thing I

  don't really remember what it was but

  someone I think it was a BuzzFeed i

  think it was Matt you can adjust yeah

  I'm apart 44 kinda you know make going

  out of his way to make it sound like you

  know this is a decent thing that that

  someone would like it's not clear that

  someone was that someone even exists in

  the real world but I those things are

  always pretty funny to me right as i

  call it grading on a curve

  yeah right it's this bending over

  backwards to make it seem as though it's

  it's more competitive than it really is

  because i had the bottom line was it was

  the the samsung galaxy player 4.2 I I'd

  i think i can do is write it was the

  ipod touch competitor right from Samsung

  and it does seem like finally five years

  later they've got a pretty good version

  of the ipod touch meaning in it like it

  like a high-end android phone without

  the phone but it was really really funny

  to read post take on well why would you

  buy this instead of the ipod touch and

  its really really hard you know that's a

  hard thing to come up with ya and I

  totally acknowledge that if you work at

  samsung or HTC any of these companies

  you're in the hole on this but it's it's

  like anything where if if you're behind

  it's not enough to catch up to who's in

  the lead you've got it put something out

  there that's that's in some ways ten

  times better

  yep totally agree thats that's like

  that's windows phone right now in a

  nutshell to you know it's great it's a

  good product but is it ten times better

  than than the iphone and you know

  certainly not with apps there's a what

  did they hit I think they did they hit a

  hundred thousand apps or something the

  other day but it's like you know that

  metric doesn't really matter that much

  anymore and I don't even know if they

  have a good percentage of the top apps

  on there it's just you know who who

  knows what those a hundred thousand apps


  or in it and if they matter to anyone

  but you know we'll see what uh what all

  this windows 8 stuff if that changes

  things at all from from an app

  developers perspective

  yeah I'm pretty bearish right now on on

  windows 8 in general i don't know i

  don't know how much you've talked about

  it and I've said some things here and

  there I think you and I are on the same

  page where I just don't understand it

  you know i like the metro stuff and i

  kinda just wish they were doing that I

  know why they're not I mean they have

  the legacy and they have all those users

  they can't just abandon straight up but

  i think it's going to kind of be a

  nightmare I've only used prototype stuff

  but i think it's going to be a nightmare

  trying to reconcile those two completely

  different things into some kind of

  seamless operating system

  yeah I i think the bottom line and I'm

  fascinated to see how it turns out

  and if anybody can make it work it is

  Microsoft because there's one of their

  things that they've done right

  institutionally for 30 years is they've

  done a great job at moving legacy

  platforms forward and and moving people

  with them so like their transition from

  that command line das PC era to the

  graphical computing era was it was ugly

  and it right involved a bunch of lurches

  but they did move the existing

  market-leading daus user base to windows

  yet slowly but surely over a couple of

  releases yep but I think in and doesn't

  matter big or small big meaning like

  Microsoft Windows you know the biggest

  platform in the history of computing or

  small something like well I've been

  thinking about this a lot is with

  panik's new version of coded for the mac

  is that where you start with something

  in a design forever effects it going

  forward and what I mean by that with

  koda is koda is designed its for anybody

  is no it's like a one window web

  development app you can edit HTML you

  can edit PHP and other scripting


  it as a whole bunch of stuff to make CSS

  editing easier it has documentation for

  all sorts of web development

  technologies like HTML CSS preview

  windows and remote connection stuff

  which panic specializes in because they

  make transmit this great ftps FTP File

  Transfer things interact but the main

  thing is that it's the main conceit of

  coda ever since it came out five years

  ago is that it all in one window vs more

  traditional apps like say bbedit or even

  textmate where it's sort of each text

  file is in a window and even in text me

  where that it's more little bit more tab

  oriented than bbedit it still is a

  different paradigm and I think it's

  harder for an app like BBM edit to to

  move towards something like a one window

  development and it would be hard for

  Panik to take kota and say well hey some

  people want stuff in a whole bunch of


  how can we add how can we make an update

  Dakota or you can have everything in a

  different window like you start with

  this design and you're kind of stuck

  with and what Apple is done and i think

  i think it to me it just clicks and it

  makes sense is that they said look

  there's a new way to do all this stuff

  so we're going to start with a new

  platform we're going to sell this thing

  this ipad that is like a computer it's

  like a laptop more or less but we're not

  going to run Mac os10 on it at all

  we're not going to use the name

  something look like it's going to be all

  started over from scratch and it's going

  to have all these restrictions and all

  these limitations that you're not used

  to but because we're starting over it

  doesn't feel like we're breaking

  anything it's all new ground yeah

  whereas with windows 8 I really feel

  like as they get closer and closer

  people are really running into this but

  wait a minute you're going to break all

  of this stuff that I'm used to

  yeah and that and what's funny the most

  funny thing about that is that the way

  that they set it up you know what's this

  Steven Sinofsky the guys that you know

  in charge windows he keeps hurting these

  epically long post on the windows blogs

  but you know he set up whenever it was

  several months ago now that Windows 8 is


  but no compromises but i think it's like

  you can view it both ways either they're

  not compromising in that they're there

  including everything that everyone could

  ever want and is that in it in and of

  itself a compromise because they're not

  actually giving the best user experience

  they're just throwing kinda everything

  in there and hoping it all works

  together and you know so far the early

  reviews of the it was at the release

  candidate or whatever just that just

  came out have been you know they say

  good things in general but switching

  between those two different interfaces

  is very jarring and and it's going to

  confuse the hell out of people right and

  the out that I see is with winrt which

  is the goofily name right the armed


  yeah which isn't going to isn't going to

  start and we know what r T stands for is

  a real time with runtime what is it

  we know you know I don't know I think

  maybe run time but it's an awful name

  that really is yeah yeah but that's the

  one we're not going to have the legacy

  support they've got right maps in there

  like the built-in office apps which

  don't really look like metro they look a

  little bit more like traditional Windows

  but they really are supposedly touch

  oriented right and you can't install

  traditional windows looking apps on the

  getting so there won't be all this weird

  context switching yeah and that's that's

  great and I you know I know again I know

  why they couldn't do that overall just

  the sheer numbers that they be leaving

  behind and and and risk alienating

  completely but you know maybe maybe that

  version does better because it's uh it's

  kind of fresh and from the ground up but

  I don't know but then then it's like

  when you go to a store and you want to

  buy some kind of Windows machine do you

  buy the windows RT one with the armed

  ship to you by a similar-looking tablet

  device but has an intel chip and so it

  runs you know whatever the other flavor

  of Windows 8 is that's called it runs on

  the the old architecture

  it's like I don't know that seems like

  just a branding nightmare and a a

  consumer nightmare waiting to happen

  it really does to me because it seemed

  as if it it really doesn't seem

  confusing to me if it

  typical person just regular non nerve

  walks into an apple store that the

  difference between a mac and the ipad is

  very very different different names

  right different interface it it's all


  it's just a piece of glass this is super

  simple this is the thing I've heard

  about and here's the mac which is I

  understand even if you never use the mac

  surely you've used windows this is

  apple's thing that's like a regular pc

  with keyboard and windows and the mouse

  that you dragged around there's no

  confusion nobody's walking out with the

  wrong thing whereas I really really

  don't understand exactly what you said

  is if you go into a store and they have

  intel-based windows 8 tablets running

  the full version of Windows 8 and arm

  tablets that are running when Artie I

  really really don't understand how

  anybody except true nerds is going to

  understand what what the heck the

  differences in which one you might want

  to buy right and so then Microsoft has

  to hope you know that they can open

  about a 10,000 more uh windows stores

  and they can have their own people

  explaining this or the reality of the

  situation is that everyone's going to

  walk into bestbuy or go on Amazon uh you

  know best buy will be people who hit you

  know does the the employees working on

  Commission who have absolutely no idea

  what the difference will be and you know

  they just try and sell the most

  expensive one and then amazon you know

  you're left to fend for yourself and

  it's their guy I'm sure they're going to

  have you know the typical microsoft

  charts to show you know which is which

  feature doesn't have which version

  doesn't have this feature in which one

  doesn't this feature and it's just going

  to be heat such such a nightmare i do I

  you know it's just like God they should

  have just done windows RT the awful name

  and everything and just done the tablets

  that way and then had a more traditional

  version of windows and just kept it

  going and and you know hope and and see

  what happens that if people move more in

  the tablet space which is you know what

  of course is happening with Apple where

  they can have the two separate tracks

  and and there by natural selection kind

  of people are are choosing to go with

  the ipad more than they have with the

  with the mac and so they're just letting

  it play out in a natural

  way rather than trying to cram things

  together right so that you know Apple

  calls it back to the mac where they take

  these iOS ideas and right put them on

  the Mac you know and another example of

  what i said before about how where you

  start really affects what you can do in

  the future going forward I i still think

  that full screen mode on Mac os10 is

  weird and i just i use it sometimes but

  I don't use it nearly as much as I

  thought I would when they announced it

  and it's because yummy the whole system

  is designed on this idea that you're

  using these windows on one screen not

  full screen apps that

  yeah and i totally normal no way to

  square that circle smoothly i think it's

  you know I use it it seems to be good

  for certain things where you need a lot

  of screen real estate like I photos a

  good example of something that I like

  like to use it for and they do some

  interesting things that they don't play

  up enough because you know who the dual

  monitor situation isn't really i guess

  probably been a mainstream thing that

  you know they they actually do it

  smartly where you can do other things

  and even though it's a great out area or

  whatever you don't make it obvious that

  you can do it but you can kinda drag

  things over there and and work in that

  space as well when you have things full

  screen but other other apps don't do

  that at all and so it's just kind of

  like a wasted space into a monitor thing

  I think on the the bigger monitor in

  general like that you know the the full

  screen apps is often just overkill on a

  911 meant an 11-inch macbook air it

  could be nice just because that screen

  is small but yeah it's really hard that

  design problem as opposed to on the ipad

  where it just feels utterly natural it

  feels like it's just write that

  everything is full screen and I think

  you know on the other hand it would be

  really hard to add multi-application

  windows to the iPad because it has

  doesn't the whole thing it just wouldn't

  would feel weird and that's that's sort

  of interesting because it's actually i

  don't know if you've had a chance to

  play at all i assume not because they

  just started coming out with them but

  the new version of Chrome OS so they

  sent me one of the one of the new

  Chromebooks you know to try out right

  and the new version of Chrome OS is is

  pretty different from the previous

  iterations of it I assume you played

  with like some iteration yeah we better

  see anything

  and so the new version is much more

  windows or answered then you know the

  old version was basically just pretty

  much a full screen browser at all times

  and it was you know if you could switch

  between windows but it would almost be

  like like now when i was ten when you

  switch when you're doing a full screen

  apps and it was kind of weird and now

  they're moving back to the window idea

  you can have a different there so

  browser windows but you can have

  different sizes open at the same time

  and kind of switch between them and it's

  it's fascinating that they are moving

  back to that thing and i get i know why

  they're doing it because they're trying

  to go after the the windows market

  itself and no one had any idea how to do

  this but uh I don't know if that will

  end up working for them or not I think

  it's a good idea to try it because no

  one was buying chrome OS as it stood so

  maybe this is a good idea for them to do

  it but they're going in the opposite way

  right you know in the bottom line for

  the mac users i think with this back to

  the mac thing is that it none of it's

  really broken their old habits where I

  got windows 8 really seems like it's

  going to break some habits 01 just

  notable example big big glaring

  fundamental difference between the mac

  and iOS is you just turn your machine on

  you've got nothing open you haven't used

  any apps

  what do you see on the Mac you see a

  desktop where you can save files and put

  folders and just puts right there and

  that's where you know Mac users famously

  and I have messy desktops full of files

  and folders and shortcuts and you know

  whatever they're working on at the

  moment and on iOS it's this home screen

  you still have a background you have the

  desktop picture but it's that's where

  your apps are right and Apple added this

  back to the mac thing called launch pad

  in 10 7 which is sort of like the iOS

  launch screen for the mac you all you

  see your apps that should be in theory

  if they start over from scratch with the

  mac today that would be your desktop

  launchpad would be your desktop wouldn't

  be an app that you launch or mode you

  jump to it would just be that would be

  your desktop and I think it would be a

  lot easier for most users especially

  people just come into the mac for the

  first time but I don't you think they

  can do it because too many people say

  files to the desktop and if they

  couldn't save file to the desktop they

  would go insane

  yeah it totally great do you do you end

  up using launchpad a lot I you know I

  found it first that i didn't use it and

  now now I just use it because that's the

  way that mac app store apps kinda you

  know the easiest way to find them it's

  like they're the you know the latest

  happens is the one that's that's right

  there in that view

  do you use it I use it a little bit on

  my air which is my secondary machine and

  I don't have all the apps that i have

  installed yet and so it's a lot cleaner

  i only have like two screens of apps on

  the air right right on my main desktop

  Mac know because it's like I've got like

  40 pages of apps and it's there's no way

  to find anything and I really love and I

  use launch bar and it's I by the time I

  even think about opening launchpad

  I've already done the command space and

  type a few characters of the name of the

  app and the captain

  yep it's interesting to that chrome OS

  that you know going back to that for a

  second they also copy that that as well

  they have like a launchpad like

  functionality now that's kind of one of

  the main features to launch their web

  apps instead of you know native apps but

  ah it's something they copied a little

  bit from windows and copied a little bit

  from OS 10

  ah so it's it's certain music and the

  other thing I i'm sort of jumping around

  topics here but I want to go back to the

  I want to go back to this six-month

  prediction about app development on

  Android and that Eric Schmidt's

  prediction that which I think he meant

  that's the thing is that i think he

  believed it

  yeah totally and your piece on

  techcrunch today celebrating android

  first day the six-month anniversary you

  you specifically mentioned his that the

  explanation for why he thought things

  were going to change in the next six

  months was ice cream sandwich right

  which i completely agree is by far and

  away the best version of Android ever

  it's it's a huge difference and I've

  said this before but it to me it's proof

  that Matias Duarte I think I'm saying

  his name right right is is very talented

  I i think that's the one where his his

  design sense is sort of been imposed on

  Android as a whole and if you use a


  phone it's it's coherent system wide

  it's it's very nice you had a good

  review of the the new Nexus that runs it

  right on and it i think it's a better

  system for developers have gotten rid of

  these soft buttons if you get a new

  phone so that you can have the whole

  screen on and so his body his argument

  was look ice cream sandwiches great

  we're gonna you know that's really

  what's going to drive people to to write

  for air android first and yet here's the


  it's seven months after ice cream

  sandwich came out and what's the

  percentage of android phones that are

  running scripts sandwich set 7.1 percent

  according to google themselves you know

  there they publish those numbers it's

  it's hilarious that you know it's just

  pathetic there's no other way to say it

  it's a it's so ridiculously seven whip

  7.1 percent of android users are using

  what you know everyone from eric schmidt

  on down considers to be the best version

  of Android and there's nothing anyone

  can do about it right and he said

  specifically at this event we made this

  prediction we're making fun of his quote

  was with the ice cream sandwich release

  our core objective as a company is to

  get all of the hardware vendors onto

  that platform and I honestly I and i

  don't mean this and i really don't mean

  it to be making fun of them

  I I I think it just shows how Android as

  a whole has sort of spun out of their


  yes as it as a concept it's it's become

  something that is obviously they're

  still driving that the development of

  the new releases but what how it's

  actually being used in the real world is

  has completely they've lost control of

  it right and you talked to people at

  Google I've had this discussion so many

  times in the past two to three years now

  where it's like they always and they you

  know they seem to legitimately believed

  that that's about to change and I don't

  know why they think that I mean that was

  part of the reason why you know I before

  the post you know making fun of the

  six-month claim you know I Provost six

  months ago pointing out june six you

  know as the day and just saying like you

  know we'll revisit it at that time and

  you know I just flat-out said like

  there's no way this is going to have

  and I laid out i think like five or six

  reasons why there was no way that that

  android development would actually

  surpassed iOS development and you know

  one of the reasons of of course and the

  thing that were you know talking about

  right now is that Google cannot get the

  OEMs and ore carriers to actually get in

  line with doing these the way that doing

  these updates the way that that Apple

  can with with their partners

  yeah i think and i think that there's a

  a it's like an institutional confidence

  and maybe it serves them well overall

  but that there's a sense of where Google

  we're doing cool stuff and so of course

  people are gonna get on board with what

  we want them to get on board with

  because of google yeah and then it's I i

  actually i think i wrote a post about a

  year ago or something that kind of like

  they were living in a dream world and of

  course that that put everyone on google

  side of things in a tizzy because you

  know pointing out not only that Android

  a with the carrier and OEM relationships

  isn't going as a as swimmingly as they

  had hope but also the google TV thing

  it's like they really thought that they

  were going to revolutionize the TV

  experience made you know they had all

  the executives that they needed to have

  I think was was atlanta two years ago at

  Google i/o I think they had like Howard

  Stringer up there and they had everyone

  and it was and it was you know sounding

  like it was going to be great and then

  everything just fell apart within like

  two months of that happening and is the

  same exact thing with the with google

  music which is probably the best well i

  would say Google Wallet might be the the

  biggest chaos situations they've ever

  had but google music is certainly one of

  them because it was two years ago almost

  exactly at i/o that they first announced

  you know what would look to be a full on

  itunes competitor of course they

  pre-announced it and no one knew for

  sure when it was going to come out and

  then hit took them several months of

  negotiating and it didn't actually

  launch until just about a year later and

  even today two years after they

  announced that they still don't have

  warner brothers on board

  I mean they still do not have one of the

  major labels on their big music service

  that was going to revolutionize you know

  music purchasing and how on earth do

  they not have at least twenty-five

  percent if not more

  Warners you know arguably the

  it's important to have on board they

  don't have them on board and they know

  you just you know they just thought that

  they could get it you know would be

  super easy and two years later

  nothing and it's not going to happen

  right i think that the group and add

  some steps when it comes to dealing with

  the rest of the industry that they

  implement instead of thinking like a

  chess player and having this look if we

  do this then this then this this is

  where we'll be

  you know and have this strategy that it

  with no gaps from here to there they

  have this we have the that famous South

  Park analogy where there's this step 2

  dot figure 3c is it alright let me let

  me hit the money button here and and do

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  had gone from selling at least on the

  mac it was very standard just you know

  indie developers the low-end was always

  around 15 bucks

  I mean it seemed like nobody could

  really make a living selling software

  for less than 15 and most apps were

  usually started like 20 bucks you know

  1999 yeah and the whole 99-cent thing

  really had people thinking is anybody

  going to be able to make a living

  selling these apps and it's you know it

  seems like definitely some are I mean

  whether 99 senses the right price for

  199 and 299 but i'll tell you what for

  ninety-nine cents i just do it

  I just buy it um yeah i mean it's it's a

  no-brainer the only thing I actually

  think about now is that god I have so

  many apps and it's just going to get

  lost in the shuffle and you know will i

  buy it one night and then forget about

  it the next day and so a you know that's

  the only thing I think about it's not

  the the price thing it's almost just

  just you know a non equation because it

  is so cheap and so easy to download now

  I'm kind of interested to see how with

  you know some mountain lion presumably I

  i guess that they'll have the gold

  master version at WWDC next week

  you know we've both been trying it out

  for a bit the developer preview of it

  seems pretty solid to me i don't know if

  you've had any problems with it

  I the only thing I really noticed that

  kind of annoys me is the slow shutdown

  speed and that's like I don't really

  know what that's about I don't know if

  you've noticed that at all but uh

  there's and shut down

  ok so I you know I try and shut down i

  don't know why but I should tell them

  about what it once a night pretty much

  and then start anew in the in the

  morning but that's only thing I've

  noticed about it seems our salad but I'm

  sort of interested to see how the mac

  app store plays along with with mountain

  line now given the stuff that they're

  doing with with what's what's it called

  out of the Volt thing i'll file on and

  I'm sorry gatekeeper I know yeah you

  know how is that are people actually

  going to do the default setting for it

  right is going to be that people have to


  yeah certified by this app certification

  thing and are people actually going to

  get around to doing that our developers

  going to do that and if they do that is

  there more incentive now to sell their

  stuff as as a registered developer over

  the web versus the mac app store i don't

  know if it's the if it's apple playing

  against itself is you know trying to

  trying to push the mac app store a

  little bit less than making it easier

  for people to do the web or if it's a

  kind of vice versatile just exploded

  interest in in mac apps in general i

  wonder i do think and I believe this and

  you know this could be one of those

  things where I'm 23 years from now I'm

  shown to be wrong but I do believe that

  Apple sees that as long as there's a mac

  that you'll be able to install software

  from anywhere it will not be app store


  yep right which is a big fear for a lot

  of mac users is that there's gonna you

  know obviously not going to 10 8 but

  maybe ten nine or whatever

  sometimes a year from now two years now

  they're going to say hey there's a great

  new feature for security

  you can only install software from the

  mac app store I'm i don't think they're

  going to do that i really don't and I

  really think that gatekeeper is not a

  step towards that I think gatekeeper is

  a way of bringing some of the peace of

  mind of right the App Store to download

  it from anywhere apps right he's not

  going to start

  yeah yeah go ahead well how how

  restrictive are they going to be as they

  really only going to because the thing

  is is that you get this developer

  certificate that signs your apps and

  apple can revoke so if you've used it

  for something that seemed to be malware

  people have got it apple can revoke that

  certificate remotely and then

  yep that all those apps just stopped

  working where they only going to what

  are they going to use that for they

  really are going to use it for things

  that everybody agrees our malware or

  like what about like this situation with

  the rogue amoeba airfoil touch

  yes it's interesting right right right

  so let me see if I can summarize this

  quickly but Rogan me by

  as this app for the iphone called

  airfoil speakers touch and you can use

  it to it's like a airplay remember

  fireplace without it and they added a

  new feature as I can night so you can

  play for you know music from airfoil on

  your Mac or PC to your to your iOS

  devices and it's great works works

  amazingly well they added a new feature

  in the latest version like six weeks ago

  that lets you set your iOS device as a

  destination for airplay from itunes so

  you can play music from itunes and have

  it sent there just looks just like when

  your apple TV shows up as a airplay

  destination right and the way there is

  no supported way to do that the way they

  did that is with this technique with you

  know I I think I don't even know how it

  works but any but there is no supported

  way to do it i think they have like a

  key that that came out of a an airport

  express or something like that the

  public key or something like that but

  it's not supported and once Apple

  figured out that the app got into the

  app store but then because that's the

  sort of obscure edge case that the

  reviewers aren't going to catch and

  they're not violating any of the actual

  rules of the app store in terms of

  private api all they're doing is using a

  non-public decryption key to be a air

  plate receiver and so apple took it out

  of the store until they took that

  feature out of the app and resubmitted

  it to the store so would they

  there's here so here's where i'm going

  with that what about if rogue amoeba

  ships a mac version that has the same

  feature right size not alter the store

  it's just sold through the through the

  web though right right so directly not

  through the mac app store right from the

  rogue amoeba website if it's signed by

  gatekeeper is that ok because it's not

  now where it's doing exactly what it was

  billed to do

  yeah I may not be happy i would hope

  that that what they would do in that

  situation is just reach out to the

  developer and you know try and talk to

  them back channel because it seems like

  it's a bit of you know it's going to be

  an edge case type situation where they

  can probably you know handle that they

  have the the man

  or to be able to handle that rather than

  just kill the app because that will

  cause an absolute shit storm if they do

  that you have a remotely kill a nap that

  was downloaded from the web

  you know that's kind of a a barrier i

  don't think they want to cross right i

  would think that they don't want to

  cross that because i really do think

  they want developers to get on board

  with this they want all the major Mac

  developers you know if you're going to

  keep selling stuff that's not my app app

  store only at least do this and I think

  that anything that they could do that

  would make developers wary of doing it i

  think those shy away from yeah yeah i

  think that the only use it for malware

  stuff and you know it's it's it's really

  genius because it kind of cuts mail

  where problems off you know right at the

  root of it rather than having to worry

  about it after the fact and so it's

  smart in that way I i still wonder and I

  and I think this is going to play out

  pretty interestingly in Mount line

  itself because you know they'll have for

  the first time all will be mac apps that

  can play nicely with iOS apps right so

  they'll have a lot of games that they're

  kinda that there will be coming out that

  will be able to do that that might my

  thought is and i'm pretty sure this is

  true maybe you know the answer sure that

  they have to be sold through the mac app

  store to be able to do that to be able

  to interplay with with iOS apps you know

  if that's if that's actually the case

  run the question by me again i'm not

  quite sure so they'll have you know like

  a game for example they had you know

  some sort of game that will right now of

  course you can play across iOS devices

  you can play with an iphone vs an ipad

  and some reason say and you know the end

  so they'll have it now where you can do

  it via the mac to you can play a game

  that's that syncs across the entire

  ecosystem but i think that those are

  only going to work if it's sold the mac

  app store i think there's things like

  Game Center that they're going to

  require you to use the mac app store for

  yeah I and I it there's nothing that

  would keep a developer from implementing

  their own peer to peer over the Wi-Fi

  thing that would let an ipad

  up communicate with a mac app you can do

  that today alright though that if you

  want to do it through apple's sister

  apples back and try to go through the I

  mean it's the same thing with iCloud for

  storage is yep

  the only way you get to write to iCloud

  is if you go through the app store right

  and i think it's all about you know it's

  they're not going to they're never gonna

  see that control the start so that if

  anybody's writing it is abusing iCloud

  by writing way too much data exceeding

  any kind of you know limits are using it

  for file sharing or something ridiculous

  like that Apple can just yank the plug

  yet and this out let me ask you this

  this is this is something that developed

  that more than one developer is brought

  up you know in the past few months with

  me that when talking specifically about

  gatekeeper and i think you said

  something about this before but I'm

  interested in your take it some the idea

  that gatekeeper is sort of a test to see

  if they would if they can ever do non

  appstore apps on iOS devices so they

  would do the same thing where they they

  sign the developer and they have no

  unsigned developers since they're

  starting from scratch they would be with

  iOS but they would have a way that you

  could download via the web as long as

  they were a assigned developer and you

  would just lose excess of course to

  things like iCloud access and can game

  center and those type of Apple things

  but you would be allowed to download

  from the web do you think that's ever

  going to happen i don't and in fact John

  Walton I talked about it on last week's

  episode and i think it's it's possible

  and if they were going to do it would

  definitely be through gatekeeper like I

  think that in if they ever did it i

  don't think they would ever allow true

  unsigned side-loaded apps if they ever

  allowed sideload apps in iOS it would be

  through something exactly like

  gatekeeper where it's signed and they

  could still revoke it remotely actually

  have were sitting right here it's open a

  tab i haven't linked to it yet i have a

  blog post from a guy named zach weekend

  and he after listening to the show last

  week he said let me see if i can find it

  a good pull quote here that it's not

  about the money yes Apple makes a little

  bit of money from their thirty percent

  cut but they are also providing a

  service for that tree they host your

  yup I agree with that that is not just

  about the money i don't know i think

  they're on the Apple gets me abstracts

  it's nice and neutral to them it's icing

  on the cake right but the reason he

  finds it hard to believe that apple will

  ever open up the floodgates to third

  party at our third party non appstore

  apps is one word

  amazon if Apple were to allow apps to be

  loaded from other sources nothing would

  prevent amazon from creating a rival

  store one that provides many of the same

  benefits and is even more

  developer-friendly uh yeah that's

  interesting that's really interesting

  actually because you look at the history

  of amazon while they are sort of trying

  to do this now with the with the android

  that's kind of their model in general

  where they just you know they figure out

  kind of the some weak point and just

  kind of go over the top and figure out a

  way to bully their their way into the

  system and kind of disrupted from the

  ground up and yeah that could

  potentially open some sort of box that

  that apple doesn't want to open if they

  were to do that I think that amazon have

  a harder time doing it from pure light

  quality perspective and maybe even you

  know kind of confusion on how to install

  things but yeah that's pretty


  I like that idea right I so I i would

  think my honest feeling is that they

  wouldn't do it unless they were forced

  to buy antitrust legislation

  yeah or however you want to put it

  government regulation right I then if

  they did that that's the route they

  would take yeah that's so not

  yeah interesting i wanted i forgot to

  mention one time wanted to give a

  shout-out to Ida about is that with this

  skeuomorphic sort of paper list thing

  they've done something i don't know if

  they had me in mind I don't know what

  they've done something that makes me

  just adore the app which is that like

  the whole user interface like i said is

  in future which I door but when you

  enter stuff it's not in and marker felt

  or chalkboard or any of those goofy

  silly childish handwriting fonts it's

  your input is helvetica it it's the I

  just wanted I can't believe i forgot to

  mention entering a sponsor read that

  it's the skeuomorphic paper type thing

  but without

  goofy silly handwriting fun which is why

  does Apple use those anyway like

  everyone just makes fun of them

  I you know what these are no I just

  remember the day I got my original

  iphone in 2007 I loved every single

  thing about it except that stupid font

  and notes app yes couldn't stop looking

  at it as I and I know they switched from

  marker fell to the one that has talking

  the name and i love the name the chalk

  name and I just can't help but think

  that it's somebody else that Apple who

  thinks of it like I do like nails on a

  chalkboard every time there's a pic also

  i also have a little another piece of

  correction from last week I have to get

  to is that last week's sponsor i

  pronouncing your name wrong

  pixelmator not pixel mentor and I I

  curse myself for this because i called

  it Pixelmator for years and then

  somebody somewhere told me that because

  the guys who make the aperture German

  that it's not called Pixelmator it's

  pixel mentor and I thought well you know

  I want to be worldly I'm debonair and it

  pronounce words in other languages so I

  didn't really think about it before we

  did the show and I did the sponsoring

  then i got like a hundred emails from

  people saying holy crap i've been saying

  Pixelmator like our automator for years

  I can't believe I'm wrong so I checked

  with the Pixelmator guys in there they

  said its Pixelmator like automator and I

  and I and I did the wrong thing i

  overthought it so that that's another

  piece of cleanup us we have a winner

  when you come guys soon you're coming

  out here for WI will be there I will be

  there next week

  have you uh would what do you know what

  your general thoughts what's coming

  that's what I go we can spend the rest

  of the show and you know what I'll take

  an opportunity right now I have another

  announcement to make

  I'll just make it right now maybe

  there's going to be a live episode of

  this show the talk show next week

  broadcast from WWDC gonna be on tuesday

  at five thirty and it's going to be free

  it's about a hundred and fifty tickets

  to give out so if you want to go if

  you're going to be in san francisco

  gonna be at WWDC it's going to be held a

  few blocks away from Moscow knee tuesday

  afternoon you can get tickets at

  talk-show dot that's

  eventbrite is spelled bri te dot-com

  there's about a hundred fifty tickets I

  don't know how fast they're going to go

  i'm not going to announce on daring

  fireball the only way I'm gonna announce

  it is right here during this broadcast I

  special guest is going to be cable

  sasser of panic i don't know maybe

  there'll be other surprise guess I'm not

  sure probably about an hour show so nice

  the talk show at hope you

  can make it

  yeah i'll be a i'll be there on Tuesday

  Tuesday 530 so I figure we'll have lots

  of WBC news to talk about and talked

  about Panik software with with cable

  after so what to expect i don't know i

  guess they-- it seems like everybody

  realized it seems pretty obvious is

  going to new mac hardware right I'm not

  sure though how much time you know i

  like to think about where they put the

  emphasis in their key nuts because it's

  their very very carefully thought-out

  yep i wonder how much time they're going

  to spend talking about Mac hardware or

  will it just be I i can honestly see it

  it's not even really being mentioned i

  don't know i guess if they go retina

  display they're going to have to mention

  it because that's developer news and

  that's a real bragging point that they

  can jump on over the industry and they

  can say look first we brought the retina

  to the phone then we brought the retina

  to the ipad everybody loves it text is

  beautiful pictures look better now we're

  bringing it to the mac yep

  yeah I i think you know obviously

  everyone knows the trend over the years

  where because iOS is so huge compared to

  Mac development that this is the focus

  of WWDC now and it just so happens that

  the timing of all this this new mac

  hardware seems to be corresponding

  perfectly with wwc so you think that

  they got to say something about it there

  and the fact that they have you know the

  new OS 10 presumably close to being done

  they've always said is gonna come out

  this summer you know and and they like

  to of course launch those things with

  some new hardware so it still seems like

  though yeah i mean you all the banners

  you see that are up right now at at

  moscone are

  are pretty much a populated so it will

  be interesting to see how much time they

  devote to to the mac itself but I cannot

  wait to see what of retina display on a

  macbook and you know macbook pro or

  whatever it's going to be looks like I

  can't even really think about what it

  would look like because you know you you

  look at your screen right now I'm

  looking at a 27-inch imac screen and

  it's a beautiful screen and it's always

  been a beautiful screen and it's like

  how you know how much better is it going

  to be now with it with a Retina display

  and will it be the same situation that

  we had with the iphone and that with the

  ipad where you can look at one of the

  retina displays and then you look at the

  old one and while when you first look at

  one and look at the other you know too I

  think I still think to kind of the the

  common user they're like okay yeah it

  looks nicer but you don't really you

  don't really get into you look at one

  and then look at the other right away or

  try and switch back after a long time

  using it and it just looks awful and is

  that the way all macs are going to look


  yeah i think it's the same that whenever

  you buy a new computer and it's faster

  than your old one you notice the speed

  for a couple of seconds and it feels fun

  you know it kind of fades away and then

  if you go back to the old machine after

  a couple of days are like I can't

  believe i use this and that is the

  retina displays exact same way where and

  I remember it the naysayers about the

  ipad who are saying there's no way

  they're gonna you know they could do

  with the phone because it was only 960 x

  6 whatever 640 on but there's no way

  they're going to put the 2048 pixel

  display and this tiny little iPad it's

  that that's insane you're not going to

  do it nobody's gonna road is nobody's

  winning money it's a price nobody is out

  there did you know they argument was

  nobody's out there with the first ipad

  or the second one saying my god the

  pixels are too noticeable on this but

  the truth is once you've used the eye

  the retina display one they are they're

  off yes

  yeah it's pretty bad to go back and and

  look at it now you can pack a i mean

  it's it's me it's even worse than it is

  on the on the iphone switch which is

  still pretty bad but just because the

  bigger screen and so it'll be even a

  bigger screen now you know presumably a

  15 inch or something like that with the

  with a mac book and it's like it got

  that's going to be really jarring to

  today and I know into mac people have

  said to me over the years because I i do

  i I obsess over typography

  it is absolutely one of my great

  passions and I've had this discussion

  with people about pixels is that you

  know that it's inevitable and and and

  they say well know most people don't

  care about this stuff like you do so why

  would they bother but it's the path that

  print talk right like if you look at

  really old books if you look at books

  that were printed you know like vintage

  books from about a hundred years ago or

  so that the printing quality was great i

  mean it you know typography had you know

  some of the great text faces of all time

  were well established already a hundred

  years ago and the typography is gorgeous

  but if you look at the quality of the

  printing it's it there's a lot of you

  know the ink spread a lot and the fonts

  were designed to accommodate that the

  great text faces of hundred years ago

  were designed with the idea that look

  it's gonna you know it's not going to be

  super crisp it's not the letters are

  going to be perfect you go to a

  bookstore now buy a print book that the

  the quality of the type in the book is


  it is like each letter is absolutely

  perfectly by a newsweek or time I mean

  they still print Newsweek right i think


  dan lyons you know he's he's big in

  there somebody's going to have

  somebody's wearing his legs right I the

  print quality is astounding

  it is absolutely astounding and its

  beginning maybe you don't notice that

  the you did people don't buy news we can

  think my god this thing is is very

  finely printed ah you may not know that

  you may not think it but you notice it

  and that's just like the way apple stuff

  is all the way you know where people

  don't buy normal people don't buy it

  the iphone and think about how nice this

  seems our between the steel antenna and

  the glass front and you may not think

  about it but you appreciate it right do

  you think do you think that they just to

  kind of one product with at first with

  the retina display for in terms of the

  Mack you know they do a macbook pro

  rather than the macbook air and and

  maybe or do they do you know do the

  release of cinema display one that can

  use that obviously they've met new mac

  pro's you'll need new cinema displays or

  or you can use the old ones but do they

  do just one uh

  retina at first try I really don't know

  I I thought originally that they would

  do it one just to introducing and it

  seems like that's a little bit more of a

  napoli way to do it is just interactive

  but it seems like there but there's so

  many spots in the mac product matrix

  that are overdue for an update that it

  just feels to me like they're going to

  just do the whole line at once and say

  that they all they all get written that

  you get a Retina Display you get to it's

  going to be Oprah Winfrey up they're

  great cars God you think they'll do a

  27-inch imac and like cinema display on

  that would be pretty insane

  I don't know it seems it seems almost

  impossible but that's what I thought

  about the phone to when I first heard

  the rumors you know three years ago that

  they were going to double the pixel

  resolution on the iphone it just seemed


  yep I I mean it like there's more pixels

  i still have a 20 inch cinema display

  but even if you had like the old 23 into

  whatever you the ipad today's ipad has

  more pixels than oh that's crazy on

  yeah so I don't know I I you know I

  almost wonder in at it I don't even know

  if it's like a yield problem but maybe

  at this point you know with the pixels

  that small a couple of dead pixels you

  don't even notice i honestly don't know


  sure would be awesome if they did and I

  wonder you know obviously they'll try

  and they'll do something within os10

  mountain lion sooo kind of make older

  apps look fine on the new thing without

  being custom tailored for it but I I do

  sort of wonder

  excuse me what they'll end up looking

  like I think it's going to be like the

  iphone where they know they're going to

  stick out the ones that haven't been

  updated are going to stick out because

  that is the weird thing the weird thing

  about and I didn't think of it didn't

  make sense to me until I saw it but when

  you run non-retina apps on the iphone

  based shouldn't theory

  look the same as they did on an old 3gs

  with a non retina display but they don't

  it looks worse right because the pixels

  yeah there's a little for pixel square

  one pixel used to be but there's so much

  sharper that you see that whereas it was

  sort of fun

  on the old non retina displays there was

  a fuzziness that sort of glossed over

  the the pixelation that you can notice

  whereas yep when you run them on the

  actual retina displays it it turns into

  sharp jagged pneus that stair-step you

  know like you're filling in graph paper

  right look and I you know I think that I

  think that's the motivation i think

  that's the one thing about apples

  success with this sort of athletics are

  a core value that across-the-board it

  just gets developers on board like your

  app looks like ass is is like a kick in

  the pants to developers to hurry up

  hurry up and fix it like no one wants to

  be that guy who people are saying i love

  your app but boy it looks like ass on my

  new macbook air

  yeah I wonder I you know I think about

  like what are.what are 1080p movies

  gonna be like when you know most youtube

  things or 1080p now we have the option

  for at Vimeo videos and then of course

  the itunes content you know they can go

  with it so far beyond that but

  Hollywood's obviously not ready to do

  that they are they're filming like the

  filming the new Hobbit movie right with

  those red cams and that's going to be a

  uniform can I resolution right for can

  and so there are you know there are

  there will be options do that in the

  future but you know it's going to be an

  interesting transition is AI think video

  I think video gets by with it though

  because of the motion

  yeah is it right immersion kinda

  inherently blurs the stuff just like

  with you know when you watch an actual

  film projected that the you know the the

  frame to frame you don't see the frames

  and so right i think that covers it up i

  think a bigger question is what

  photography photographs are going to

  look like

  yep and you kind of see that on the ipad

  i think especially when you're on the

  web because most websites don't have

  retina photographs their photographs on

  the web and you really I'd I think you

  can really see like jpeg compression now

  that you couldn't see before with the

  exact same photograph on on a on another

  kind of non retina display

  yeah yeah it was you know I had my

  little logo thing

  of course wasn't wasn't retina ready

  when it came out and I just look at that

  and cringe every single day and soho now

  it's a matter of just uploading a much

  larger image file but it looks finally

  looks fine red yeah let me I'm gonna

  just let me do the second sponsor and

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  them and look for Matt wdc so what else

  maps maps it seems like a done deal i

  mean that's the one that's that's leaked


  what what would you make of the of the

  google event yes it was me yesterday

  that happened kind of funny funny little

  event you know that uh that I don't know

  what they were really thinking you know

  if they were even trying to be a smart

  about the way that they kind of time the

  entire thing every tweet that is all

  about it you know I was gearing up to

  just sit down and watch it and then it's

  just like treat us like this is


  announcing anything all they're saying

  is you know kind of the history of

  google maps and and going into you know

  how great the product is and it's very

  clear that they threw this conference

  together at the last second just to

  preempt whatever Apple is going to

  announce at wwc one of the articles I

  read covering and i forget which side it

  was on but the first comment was perfect

  it was the first comment with somebody

  who's comment was google to apple all

  caps first

  yeah you know which is it was so perfect

  because it's you know that's famously

  what try to people jerks try to stick in

  is the first comment on any article

  right it really was and and somebody

  else had the analogy is on Twitter and I

  wish I'd thought of it was that it

  really wreaked of that it was exactly

  like that 2010 CES keynote from steve

  ballmer whenever your slates and right

  right holding up their one year it was

  you know six weeks before the original

  iPad introduction and it was at a point

  where there is this fever pitch of hey

  apples really doing a tablet and there

  is coming soon

  everybody knew it nobody knew what it

  was going to be but there's this idea

  that Apple has a tablet and it's coming

  soon in and Microsoft CES keynote was

  about slates and they tried to grasp the

  word in there and and Google got a

  chance to throw out the 3d word I you

  know even though you know they've had 3d

  elements of course for for a while but

  now they have some concern new you know

  I amazing 3d element coming soon my new

  nothing was actually released at this

  event because it wasn't ready right but

  coming soon they will have some sort of

  3d thing I thought I think was like

  quentin hardy for I think he wrote about

  in new york times maybe even like the

  bits blog there something like that but

  I'm you know because I was of course

  extremely skeptical and just wrote a

  post pretty much trashing that that

  whole conference is a giant waste of

  time and kinda showing a google has

  while they are you know undoubtedly the

  leader in maps they do have a

  vulnerability here that I think is is

  going to be fun sort of watch how it

  plays out but I thought we'd already had

  an interesting other view of it which is

  that they had to do this conference to

  try and

  preempt what the rest of the press will

  talk about at wwc which is that

  Wow Apple you know has an opportunity

  here to really hurt a google wear

  something that matters because you know

  mobile mobile Sookie maps are so key to

  mobile and there's all this data and you

  know Google could

  know Google could

  lose half the market all of a sudden and

  so Quinton hardees point was that you

  know this at least put some seed in the

  presses mind that well you know this

  what apple announced you know could be

  disruptive certainly but it's not nearly

  as good as what Google is done in and

  you know they've had seven years to work

  on this and they've been doing it all

  this time and they have all the experts

  in the space you know working on this

  problem so there's no way they can

  actually do it

  it was basically just a plant a seed of

  doubt in five days before WC about it i

  guess i just think it makes them look

  defensive though

  yes right there my tickets they're

  fighting down rather than fighting

  because they are a position of power

  I you know I i if it were me I would

  just stay silent

  you know yeah and you know i might have

  you know fought as hard as i could have

  been negotiating table to convince Apple

  to stick with google maps in iOS if if I

  really thought that was in Google's

  interests but if they were clearly going

  to go their own way and not not renew

  the contract then just shut down

  silence and you know good luck and let's

  see what they do and let them do it

  because you know Jay arrow had a piece

  on business insider today and in typical

  business insider fashion it's sort of

  sensationalizing it why Apple is taking

  a tremendous risk with this time but

  he's a good guy

  the arrow and he has a good point the

  fundamental point though is that it is a

  risk because it has to be as good as

  google maps yet overall you know

  directions have to be as good and they

  can't in on and I I'm guessing that's

  why it's taking them so long with their

  a been working on this for a while

  they've been making these accusations

  accusations four years is that there's

  no other way to roll that out other than

  to do it all at once and have beautiful

  cartography that covers the world and

  accurate directions and driving and

  transit public right hands it you know

  and I know that the google walking

  directions of star still beta but you

  know that they pretty good i mean at

  least in the cities i've used them in I

  mean it always works

  I mean I think they're just covering

  their ass if you know you can hit by a

  car or something like that

  right on but it just has to be as good

  and it's an area where Apple is it's not

  a historical struggling unproven yeah

  yeah and it's like it goes back to what

  we were talking about kind of the

  beginning where you know if if you're

  gonna come into a market that's kind of

  dominated by someone you have to do

  something that's that's really kind of

  you know not just not just as good but

  10 times better

  Apple resident necessarily have to do

  that here because they have control of

  this platform and so you know people

  will have no choice but rather to use it

  and as long as it's just as good

  that will be fine for people you know

  most people won't even you know most

  average consumers I think wouldn't even

  they'll notice a difference obviously if

  they look a little different but they

  wouldn't really care if it's a google

  map or if it's an apple maps as long as

  it functions just as well as it did so

  it doesn't have to be better here but it

  has to be as good and that's you know

  that's asking a lot and and no one knows

  if Apple's going to be able to pull it

  off or not they certainly think that the

  candidate seems like but who knows my

  big question and i have i forget if I

  ask this to john molitor adam lee circle

  around the show a week or two ago and I

  had it was multiple that would we

  couldn't figure it out is do you think

  they're gonna do a web version of the

  map yeah I actually i said this

  yesterday too kind of thinking out loud

  about it that's that's a really

  interesting question because it's on one

  hand it seems like if they're going to

  ask every developer to do this along

  with you know the standard maps app so

  in all the apps i'll have the you know

  they someone brought up the point you

  know that it's not like there is a

  Google Maps SDK part of the the iOS SDK

  is just the you know they've mapkit I

  think and and right now that uses google

  data and presumably they'll switch that

  out to use the Apple data so so all you

  know almost all developers you know

  probably will fall in line with that and

  if they do that then you know it's sort

  of like there's so many apps that have a

  web components to it like are they then

  going to have to switch over to using

  google maps on the web because they have

  no other choice or does Apple offer a

  web version of it i guess i would guess

  that apple doesn't have a web version of

  it though it doesn't seem like an

  apple-like thing to do but the other

  thing I was thinking about is what

  happens when you email somebody

  directions from you

  phone Yeah Yeah right like when you do

  it now it you can use the google map on

  the phone and say look here's where I'm


  yeah the directions in and there's like

  a little in action button email this and

  send them to the Google Maps website so

  i guess they just hope that you're using

  a mobile device or an iOS device and you

  either open it through your iPad or the

  iphone or maybe they have a picture or

  something including out it's a real

  mystery I don't expect them to a website

  but i wonder how they how you email

  directions to somebody if they don't

  it's also said it's interesting idea as

  well because you know on the web itself

  google is also in a bit of a vulnerable

  position there because for some reason

  which most people still don't really

  understand google raise their rates a

  few months ago for your google maps for

  like high-level customers so for example

  foursquare switched away from using

  google maps on their website they still

  use it in there in the mobile app

  because it's part of iOS SDK and it's

  free right but on the web they started

  jacking up the rates for like big

  customers and so all those guys moving

  over to things like open street maps and

  where they can kind of customize their

  own maps and so Google is actually

  vulnerable here and no one really again

  no one understands why they checked the

  traits that a lot of money for google

  and it just seems like a risk that

  they're taking for no apparent reason

  but so if Apple words to do web maps of

  some sort they could get a lot of the

  bigger developers potentially using them

  again I don't think it's gonna happen

  but it's something interesting to think


  it's always seemed in Google's priority

  was collecting data right right so I

  don't know why they're merging yeah

  right like why why motivate people that

  maybe look elsewhere and fit in

  foursquare is obviously a super high

  profile example why why give foursquare

  any reason to change it does seem

  curious to me and I mean unless it's far

  more expensive then then I think it is i

  mean it's it's definitely expensive but

  it'sit's such you know in the amount of

  money that they make that they would

  make from its is gonna be completely

  negligible to Google's bottom line and

  so right who cares just do it as a loss

  leader I mean it's such a valuable


  listen they're the leader in this and

  there you know i i've talked to

  foursquare but they don't know they

  don't really know why they decided to

  change it and and start jacking up these

  rights no one no one really knows and it

  just seems on googly it's not you know

  all the complaints that we you and I

  have about various aspects of google one

  is it one thing it i can't imagine ever

  saying before is that they seemed like

  they were too hungry for collecting

  money from people right dad never did it

  I can't think of any other example of

  that where they've done something where

  they seem to favor revenue per user /

  just getting as many people using their

  things as possible

  yeah so I don't know what do you think

  about you know so it sounds like we know

  maps are coming

  seems like facebook as well it's going

  to be a part of this i know you're not a

  facebook user at all but now this is a

  you know this is this is the state.the

  of the ecosystem right now so many apps

  use facebook connect to be able to do it

  and it seems yet I i think if they could

  get facebook to agreed to terms that

  Apple considers appropriate privacy wise

  yep that it's done deal I'd i think so

  and I think I you know at one thing you

  have to remember too is that Apple

  really operates on a yearly schedule

  they really do things annually they

  don't roll out a lot of stuff other than

  bug fixes in you know in between and so

  a year ago is when they baked in the

  Twitter star if in the US and it was

  sort of you know I think it was half

  because they thought twitter is good and

  that would be useful for iOS and I think

  it was half a message to facebook of

  well we'll show you stop saying to them

  you know you don't agree to our Terms

  well these guys are you know they're

  nipping at your heels so you know one

  year later I wouldn't be surprised at

  all if you know I think as a negotiating

  tactic a one year head start of built-in

  social integration on iOS you know is

  enough to maybe get facebook to budge on

  the terms that they were offering which

  by all accounts

  and that you know you i think you and i

  both have you know pretty high level and

  info on that it was you know more or

  less came down to their facebooks bottom

  line on the terms they wanted from Apple

  was Apple would not agree to not about

  money it was about privacy and private

  chef right so I i wouldn't be surprised

  at all I I think that's definitely

  happen i think it's i think it sticks

  out more now on iOS 5 that there's one

  and only one third party social

  integration you know that was like this

  this section in the settings apps that

  seems like it would naturally be suited

  through a couple of them and it's just

  one I Twitter and you know

  coincidentally tonight Facebook's like

  having this last-minute event looks like

  to launch what they're calling their app

  center which is which is fascinating

  because it's uh it's actually leaked out

  a little bit and it's gone live in their

  facebook app on their off facebook iOS

  app even it's basically on the side

  panel they knew how they have this new

  area that's called App Center where they

  basically have their own app store but

  it's not their app store it's really

  pointing to mobile apps at least on you

  know it's kind of I think the idea is to

  be platform-agnostic so it's on android

  2.2 android apps if it's on iOS points

  iOS apps that the web it can point to a

  web app but you know this this might

  come into play with kind of these

  negotiations as well because you know as

  we're seeing now Facebook is a pretty

  important driver for growth for a lot of

  these apps you know like we had all the

  video camera apps that were kind of

  exploding for awhile mainly because of

  the way that they were using facebook

  open graph and now you know one of the

  big complaints

  that's only going to get louder is about

  app discovery and apple but chomping you

  know there are supposedly trying to work

  on things with that but Facebook can do

  a pretty good job of it i think just

  given the social data that they have

  about what apps your friends are using

  and so maybe Apple maybe they do

  something a little bit more with that to

  to kind of make it as a new discovery

  layer for apps themselves because all it

  does is kick you into the app store it's

  just a new layer on top of it

  yeah I'd I definitely not an act that

  harkens all the way back to the original

  rumors that pain was designed with

  writing is playing over

  his right mind and I don't get these

  recommendations and and find out new

  music that people you know we're using

  based on your facebook friendships and


  yeah and so and that may have sunk that

  ship before it even started

  you know there are those lines one thing

  I've noticed i have noticed is recently

  and it's partly because I don't know if

  I notice it more because I don't even

  have a facebook account or if it's just

  my branding sensitivity but I've noticed

  more and more as i walk around the city

  when I see like billboards and

  advertisements like on the sides of

  buildings or wherever you can put ads

  like walking around I see an awful lot

  of brands that instead of putting their

  URL you know that it was put facebook

  yep dot slash their name yep I including

  one I forget who you didn't even print

  facebook they just printed the f just

  that Facebook f / their name

  yeah and I thought that was that blew me

  away and they didn't it wasn't next to

  their URL it was the this is where to go

  for more information

  is facebook / brand name yeah i thought

  the same thing that's a I don't really

  know what that's all about facebook just

  as a killer kind of partnership team to

  be able to to get these guys to do it or

  if there's some sort of data that

  they're saying we're just kind of silly

  now to have your own website when what

  you really want is kind of data social

  data that facebook is able to offer up

  and help you kind of spread the word

  about messages and stuff right now that

  you can get them to follow you or like

  you and then have a ongoing relationship

  with them rather than one time they

  visit your site look right one page and

  whatever they remember they remember but

  i still think it's very very powerful is

  a powerful statement of Facebook's


  yeah you know while I have you here

  because now your new gig your job is

  really working as a you an angel

  investor or vc vc vc yeah just doing

  seed level investments of smaller kind

  of angel sighs investments in a way but

  yeah so I want you to explain to me the

  facebook IPO picture

  here's what I'd I don't understand why

  it's being called a disaster

  I don't understand it seems to me like

  it must it's gone down so that's not

  good but it seems to me like it was

  mostly at least on day one it was priced

  kind of right because this is my very

  very lame and I I this is so out outside

  my wheelhouse that maybe I'm just

  totally off base is that it was like

  what was it 30 $38 or 32 years that's

  the way over 38 somebody but it seemed

  to me like it if you were on the inside

  you got it you know if you there is one

  of the banks that was doing the IPO you

  you got it 38 bucks and if you jumped on

  it right when the bell rang if you can

  get your trade-in then you are getting

  it at the same price that seems fair to


  yep yeah its own people want people

  wanted to double that seems to me like

  you're saying that it's cooked in favor

  of the banks who got it at the price

  before it doubled yes that's it that's

  exactly right i mean my my take on it is

  is exactly pretty much what you said

  that this you know that the perception

  of it is not the reality the reality is

  that Facebook made as much money as

  possible as they could have off of an

  IPO and say you know say they had priced

  it at 15 or something and then you know

  it opened at 35 that would have been it

  wow you know everyone's like wow there's

  so much demand for that this these

  facebook shares whatever but Facebook

  would have made actually half the money

  because they would have only sold you

  know half and half as much half uh for

  what they could have uh basically and so

  Facebook came out very well from this

  and and you know I think that they're

  all looking at this right now and they

  just don't care i mean they had to go

  public it was kind of an annoying thing

  for them to do for a while you know they

  kind of rallied around rallied around at

  the end and they did raise you know it

  something like 16 billion dollars as a

  result of it but they did as well as

  they possibly could

  it's a it's a loss really for you know

  the people who are looking to get a what

  typically happens at least with tech

  stocks you know where its there's a pop

  and so people want to get out and a 1

  get the 22 you know fifty percent

  whatever it's going to be pop and then

  sell quickly and they're pissed off

  because that didn't happen and instead

  you know they ended up losing money if

  you try to do that but it's a silly

  thing I mean if

  you're gonna buy facebook stock first of

  all you know there's a lot of talk right

  now that the financials aren't strong

  and and that there was some you know

  like insider knowledge about it that was

  only testing certain people and you know

  those things will get looked into and

  maybe there's something to that I don't

  it sounds like nothing that actually

  happened was illegal it was just kind of

  that's the way it works right now you

  know certain morgan stanley led the IPO

  and they let certain people know like

  what data they had but the reality of

  the situation is if you were going to

  buy facebook stock

  you know you really should have known

  what you were buying to begin with it's

  not like any of this data is really

  secret or kind of hard to understand you

  just need to do a little bit of homework

  and if you're buying facebook stock you

  really should be buying it at the you

  know the IPO price and thinking it's a

  long-term bet not some sort of stock pop

  thing we're just in this we've been in

  this mentality of these these tech IPOs

  throughout the past however long you

  know decade now where these things

  initially pop and everyone is expecting

  the pop and so when it didn't pop people

  are wondering you know what does that

  mean is is is everything crashing is a

  you know is this the end of of tech

  itself but you know right now the stock

  and looking at $26 you know I i would

  bet in a year it will be you know

  somewhere around the IPO level maybe

  above it and that's just the way it's

  going to be and so you know Facebook

  grows into a more mature company and

  they start producing you know more

  substantial revenues that justify you

  know the pricing of it i think people in

  the tech press in general is just you

  know obviously they like to play up the

  story that it was a huge failure there

  were certain things that nasdaq really

  screwed up on and and that's certainly

  uh is is going to play out over the next

  several months when more companies start

  to IPO do they go with the new york

  stock exchange instead of nasdaq seems

  like that was part of the piling on

  nowhere that's not what that's not

  facebook's fault i mean i guess you can

  follow them for going with the nasdaq

  rather than going with the new york

  stock exchange but it but it's really a

  it's sort of like a piling on know where

  i saw that there's this sort of a and

  again i'm not really i don't use

  facebook but i actually really I'm kind

  of fascinated by the company and i am

  very interested in in Zuckerberg because

  I feel like he is one of those rare guys

  he's like a Bill Gates Steve Jobs rap

  once-in-a-lifetime sort of our

  once-in-a-generation unique individual

  yeah and if I were I didn't you know I

  don't have any money in facebook but if

  I did it wouldn't be because i like the

  product would be because i'd like to

  place a bet on him all right term and I

  still think I think that's exactly why

  amazon has such a high what's the what's

  the price to earnings yeah

  price-to-earnings right is people

  betting on Jeff Bezos yes which i think

  is a smart bat I would you know I don't

  have amazon stock either but I would you

  know I wouldn't mind having some amazigh

  certainly would think about it and if I

  did it would be betting on Jeff Bezos

  because I think he's very smart he's

  that type of guy and that's a good way

  to think about it because you look at

  Amazon's business and you see like the

  you know the prophets are following

  actually because of some of the hardware

  stuff they're kind of trying to do and

  and the margins aren't great at all but

  it's a total long-term bet they'll just

  be able to kinda outmaneuver everyone

  coming their way and facebook now you

  know kinda outmaneuver in the space that

  they're in and that will kind of be like

  we're just talking about the brands that

  are using it as their as a web page

  there now like a part of the fabric of

  the web that's kinda irreplaceable and

  some people don't agree with that of

  course and so but that's that would be

  the bet you're making I think you know

  you kind of hit upon it to the other the

  other kind of backlash element i guess

  the facebook IPO was the fact that

  they're the price-earnings ratios insane

  and their market cap you know was gonna

  be about a hundred billion and now it's

  closer like 60 billion or something like

  that and you think about that in

  relation to these other companies that

  are making you know like Apple and

  Google that are making the way way more

  more revenue and of course profit and

  you know

  Facebook's not that far away a hundred

  billion from google which is what it I

  think 200 billion and so like how can

  you possibly justify it just happens to

  be that you know Facebook had the

  biggest tech IPO of all time it was a

  there was a lot of pent-up demand for it

  and now that people you know have sensed

  that there's there's some way that they

  can spend this is a failure its kinda

  you know everyone likes to be the first

  to call you know the the the top of the

  market and now it's going down from here

  but it just doesn't seem like that's

  really what I got Diana

  glad to hear that from you because i had

  just had this sense that the press

  coverage was like the knives were ready

  to come out right did anything but shoot

  way up and then if they just piled on

  with the fact that there were technical

  problems on a stacks and that they just

  threw in and it just became this this

  very neat narrative that facebook's IPO

  is a disaster right and it means it was

  certainly not a disaster for them with

  right and then anything that could

  possibly fit into that basic story

  the facebook IPO disaster they would

  just throw in everything else gets gets

  tossed into that pile and I just I

  thought it was sort of a we were just

  waiting to jump on you think much like

  antennagate was for apple

  yes we do this right wait and we've been

  waiting for something like this and yeah

  we're gonna beat it until it's dead and

  the unfortunate side effect of some of

  this is that you know there are

  companies now we're going to be a little

  hesitant to go public and maybe that's

  right maybe you know maybe they should

  be hesitant more hesitant to go public

  you know you that you look at groupon

  and some of these other ones that are

  struggling you know but they're they're

  hesitant not for maybe the right reason

  you know they're hesitant because they

  don't want to get the same kind of press

  backlash you know that their Facebook

  out which is which is totally ridiculous

  and you know what there's not much

  really you can do about that but it's

  yeah here's the other thing that I see

  is big picture wise at the the Silicon

  Valley poker table

  yep is you know in that whole enemy of

  the enemy is my friend mindset is that

  google is to me the new microsoft we're

  the ones who are sticking her fingers

  and everybody else's pies

  yep and not making any friends and

  spoiling the friends that they had right

  because only I still it's so hard to

  think I mean that in terms of how far

  this industry can go in five years is

  that when he I phone was introduced

  there's Eric Schmidt invited up onstage

  back-slapping with Steve Jobs talking

  about what great almost sibling

  companies Google and Apple are apples

  doing their thing we're doing our thing


  it's totally separate where we love each

  other and we're so happy to have a

  couple of services on the iphone this is

  gonna be great and now look where they


  I the way I see it is google has really

  made enemies of everybody

  yeah and it just makes a lot more

  natural to see something like Facebook

  integration in iOS you know and and some

  significant keynote time monday devoted

  to that

  yeah i do i I along those lines I wonder

  if you know Apple back-channel was

  talking you know with facebook and kind

  of making sure that they get some sort

  of not exclusive partnership but kind of

  you know better access than facebook is

  willing to give to to something like

  Android and you know while Google and

  Facebook are at odds for other reasons

  and social and kind of different areas

  right now

  facebook is really they still have to

  play nice with android because so much

  of their businesses mobile and android

  is a large part of the mobile ecosystem

  and so they have to play nice with it

  but I do wonder if there's some sort of

  behind-the-scenes thing going on with it

  with Apple and Facebook where it's a

  little bit you know of an anti google

  tilt going on right now I just see that

  everybody's everybody's an enemy with

  google and that you know and it

  yeah and he is and it's one of those

  things like we talked about earlier

  where they just don't you know you talk

  to them and they don't have that they

  just don't seem to be aware of this even

  though like it's not like a big secret

  and anyone can see it you can talk to

  people who basically say it

  everyone is sort of if their not

  Google's enemy right now they feel like

  Google's going to move in their space

  because google just keeps doing that

  over and over and over again now you

  know the best relationship they have I

  guess is with Samsung because Samsung's

  the one company doing well off of

  Android but you know we'll see what

  happens with this motorola stuff you

  know that could go sideways as well you

  know and it does seem like they're

  oblivious about it I really attached to

  me as a difference for Microsoft was the

  enemy of everybody in the values and

  Microsoft seem very self aware of their

  role you know that they were you know

  making enemies of everybody and anybody

  was making a profit at Microsoft was

  going to try to

  deal that market right huh and they

  seemed very aware of that where Google

  does not google seems to think that

  they're still everybody's friend but

  everybody else kind of hates him

  yeah it's a very weird sense of

  entitlement like at a company level

  seems to be going on just on I just

  trying to wrap this up we've been we've

  been going for about an hour and

  happening any other WWDC predictions

  what you think about my idea of apple TV

  apps i've got nothing I have no inside

  dope on that nobody has wished me

  anything to me about that the only hint

  i have of that the only the only actual

  info is that I know that the new Apple

  TV has bluetooth for hardware right in

  there yep

  and yet apples not using that your

  anything yet

  yep that's that's true and the new the

  latest iPhone has it as well right right

  okay so right yeah i don't know i

  haven't heard anything either about any

  kind of apple TV app stuff i mean it's

  gotta happen eventually of course and

  they already have some element of it you

  know that they have their own apps that

  they built for netflix and an MLB and

  the different ones you know that would

  be that would be a pretty awesome thing

  if they did that because everyone's been

  waiting for it and now the time it would

  be kind of interesting too because it's

  it's a you know right after the CES

  stuff where we had the kind of the game

  systems out there and you got 110 is

  doing now and Microsoft is kinda wait

  until next year to do their their new

  system sony and so there is kind of this

  this intro to the market right here and

  if and if Apple allows apps and you know

  presumably a lot of those would be games

  again that could be a fascinating a way

  to play it

  I don't know if that if that will happen

  or not but yeah I mean they did just

  redesigned the interface right when did

  that come out like that was at the ipad

  event so yeah and the februari yep so

  and one thing I've noticed with that and

  it's gone to a more iOS home screen type

  thing read these little rectangles that

  look like apps been studying squares

  their little 69 rectangles upon and one

  thing I know about that is just like the

  original iphone where it was like an

  uneven number of icons that there

  because it yes yes there's only like one

  in the

  bottom row which gym bag for those other

  three spots to be filled in

  yeah which didn't necessarily imply

  third-party app right it could be an

  asshole or a good writer party right but

  I can't help but think that the apple TV

  is the same way where it's an uneven

  number of those rectangles where it just

  seems like it's almost like that blank

  spaces a dot dot dot it's like an

  ellipsis that's like more to come

  well I do think like when you you just

  look at the market itself and you see

  like you know Microsoft now there's this

  there's this big Microsoft's big push it

  in the press has been that that xbox is

  winning the battle for the living room

  right and so they're doing a you know

  they are doing all these partnerships

  with places like ESPN and so it seems

  natural that apple would also have some

  sort of ESPN you know watch now

  partnership thing with apple TV and so

  maybe maybe that's something that gets

  announced ahead of a rather than like a

  a platform for it right now but I also

  liked the idea and I think you put this

  forward since in a subtle way at least

  that if they do get a platform out there

  now and they get developers developing

  for it then if and when they do do you

  know their actual foray into the space

  in a more meaningful way they'll have

  apps they're ready to go and that's like

  you know they're seating their own

  victory right there right

  I can't help but think that if they do

  it there's got to be some kind of new

  hardware maybe not i I feel like this is

  the new Apple TV that does 1080p it only

  four months old so they can't just say

  that was obsolete but it's kinda like a

  remote or something that uses Bluetooth

  there's got to be better input than the

  the ir remote well those those those sk

  use it got leaked yesterday or something

  9to5 mac Adam like there were some

  interesting things in there right there

  were things that weren't known

  necessarily right there could be some

  kind of some sort of hardware thing

  that's totally off the radar that's like

  you know a cheap accessories so yeah

  maybe it is something like some kind of

  new remote control to specifically

  control apps in a in a different way and

  then yeah go ahead

  well you go ahead and go in what what do

  you think about you know that I think I

  think we can all assume we're not going

  to see new iphone hardware because you

  know the

  precedent has been set now for that in

  the fall but if you know as all

  indications seem to be lining up that

  there is going to be this new screen


  how do you think they're going to play

  that with with ios6 I think you've said

  before that they'll like do it in a way

  that's not obvious but they'll have

  something to kind of drop a hint that

  something will be changing about it how

  do you think they do that I either

  either not at all and just trust that

  when they do the announcement in

  september-october whenever the new phone

  comes out that they'll say look this

  phone is shipping next week and

  developers go to you know blah blah blah

  you know address and find out how to

  update your apps only have these guys

  here with us who we've brought in a

  month ago and they've updated their apps

  and you know right to talk about how

  they spent 15 minutes and and got their

  apt to do the new size or you know I got

  my conjecture was that they could do it

  in the context of made notifications

  right yeah like being flexible about

  making room for that doing it webos

  style like I know a lot of people hail

  the the multitasking interface of webos

  is like the but the card thing which I

  never really liked I I didn't like that

  I thought it was confusing the way that

  I was not a fan of that but I thought

  the best idea and webos was the way

  their notifications didn't cover contact

  content that they shrunk the content and

  stood there

  yep i thought that was the best idea and

  I think it's silly having seen it the

  way that on iOS that they the banners

  cover-up content so I think they could

  do it that way they can get you to be

  flexible although it doesn't cover the

  horizontal case where when you're

  holding the phone sideways where I

  doesn't explain why you'd want to be

  flexible horizontally so I don't know

  that is a mystery to me

  I think bottom line is I totally believe

  Tim Cook's line at the de confĂ©rences

  last week that they're doubling down on


  I I don't think anything is I don't

  think things have ever been is tight at

  cupertino i've been following the

  company the only place that leaks is

  Asia it's the supply chain so all then

  there and I debt out a little bit

  outside apples control right so like

  these faceplate

  and stuff like that that leak from

  manufacturing in China that's a little

  bit outside their control the stuff

  that's completely in their control the

  stuff that is actually happening in

  cupertino california it has never been

  more tight-lipped and and the best

  example of that is mountain-lion I mean

  mountain lion came out of the blue

  yeah i mean i remember talking to you on

  the phone yeah we're trying to guess

  what it would be right like a day or two

  before those briefings started in

  February i believe it was right

  I februari January whatever that was and

  you know number one there's the game of

  hey did you get the call you know yet i

  did I don't think I shoot right and then

  it's I get feel like then we can you

  know we still can't talk a lot but we

  can like times they give any idea what

  this is a pound and it's like we're both

  like new no idea

  yeah i think the best guess was retina

  yeah right no max at the time exactly

  that was that was definitely my best

  guess and i think that was your best

  guests to around know you thats it's

  just a perfect and so I'm actually happy

  about this right in a way that I

  actually feel like I know less about

  what's going to be announced monday at

  WCC than I have in years and I couldn't

  be happier about it i'm gonna makes me

  just look forward to it

  yeah it makes it I'm it makes it really

  exciting that you know on the you're

  right that of course you know Apple

  can't do all that much to stop the the

  hardware stuff that kind of gets up from

  the third party suppliers over in Asia

  but like iOS like I feel like you know I

  heard a little bit about about Facebook

  heard a little bit about maps but that

  was the maps thing was only after

  someone else had heard something and so

  you could kind of you know put feelers

  out there for what's out there but i

  have no idea anything else you know you

  know that there's going to be other

  major changes and there's nothing really

  out there no one's talking about it and

  I kind of my gut feeling is that it's

  kind of going to be a big peanut that

  they've got a lot to announce and we

  just don't know what it is yet

  does it compare and contrast to last

  year where they actually put out a press

  release the week before where they said

  what they were going to cover

  yeah it was very unusual yeah they even

  in fact even like pretty much tip the

  beans on iCloud I don't think they not

  sure that they they minded but they said

  apples upcoming cloud-based did they do

  that do it you have any good reason for

  why now like looking

  back at it like they did like say that

  they were going to iCloud there had been

  a lot of rumors about that I clouds

  coming but it's like why is it is it

  acceptable for me to say I was right

  is that gonna add is that self-serving I

  think I were right when they did it last

  year when I link to their PR and daring

  fireball my guess was and I think in

  hindsight it was exactly right

  was that it was specifically to set the

  stage for no hardware announcements

  ah right ok yeah right to make it clear

  to everybody we're gonna tell you what

  we're going to talk about just so that

  everybody will know we're not going to

  do a new phone because you have done

  this new phone in this vets the entire

  good point

  they uh they needed pretty either your

  they wanted

  yeah my guess is that jobs hated doing

  that PR yeah

  ah but i think he agreed that they had

  to CNU yeah because just imagine what

  the backlash would have been had it been

  set up that well we get a new iphone

  every year and wait a minute there's no

  new iphone this year and no one had any

  idea and that's the surprise that

  there's nothing and you know this is the

  downfall of Apple Apple slipping that

  you know like what's what's happening

  here because the one thing that that I i

  find myself losing track of sometimes

  and it's just a way to Center myself

  covering the company is to keep in mind

  that i get excited about cool new stuff

  that Apple does no matter what if it's I

  think it's cool it's new i get excited

  about I'm interested in it but there's a

  big difference between some of the stuff

  they do some of the other stuff which is

  is it something that they're selling or

  is it just something they're improving

  right so last year's thing was mostly it

  was it

  that's the thing is it was nothing that

  they were going to sell like iCloud is

  something they just gave to everybody

  right and so financially you know and

  that's it's after you know never forget

  that it's you know it's all about the

  money i feel like this year it's going

  to be about stuff that they're selling

  or at least a big part of it

  yeah and that's a I mean have they ever

  updated every single mac in their line

  at the exact same time

  no never and so that's a and there and

  the best part about that is that it

  probably still won't be the focal point

  of the keynote because iOS is

  you know so much bigger right yeah I

  definitely think I think it'll probably

  start out with the mac and then you know

  and congratulations you know whatever

  Mac you're using whatever one you like

  guess what there's a new Retina version

  of it i think so i think they're going

  to do and then now we're gonna start to

  the overview of mountain lion again you

  know they like to do ice those the 10

  things or whatever that uh that are that

  are new and dif right and then yeah then

  go to iOS yep

  well I think that's a show I want to

  thank our sponsors again excellent

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  dot-com happen to know that the

  developer of IDA has in fact a very nice


  it's true i wonder if that's you know I

  don't know if that's legal the Fiesta if

  you could require all of your employees

  to ever walk but that would be a good


  I do know that Ben Ben Lachman know the

  founder of the company does now he's

  kind of stuck with I have to ask him

  about that now that his name the company

  nice mohawk I wonder if he's kind of

  stuck with the haircut right 2060 still

  have the Mohawk even though there's no

  hair he has to get a hair hair implants

  to to keep the Mohawk going great right

  like it would have been in trouble for

  apple if they were somehow that you know

  named in 1978 after steve jobs then

  thick luscious head full of hair

  beautiful books with java