The Talk Show

3: Superman Didn’t Even Make His Own Logo, with John Moltz


  only if you're desperate to stars love

  Gruber on macbreak weekly but this show

  is very slow and the content is if he

  compared to other text shows just my

  opinion by Jack daddy 5462 nearly

  content-free two stars by I'm a Buddha

  unfocused surprisingly incorrect about

  many details and nearly complete waste

  of time was the boot is so critical i

  don't know a lot about Buddhism but I

  know a little bit

  there's a review of the last episode by

  Sam Hill gosh

  and I'm not exaggerating that was

  written in all caps that me reading in

  my all caps voice gosh what a waste of


  give me a break you guys talk about

  yourselves your show and your sponsors

  for the majority of the time completely

  self-absorbed trite crud totally without

  direction as a two-star review by CM

  Harrington the host sound almost

  identical and they're short run length

  is taken up by rambling about their

  sponsors and the latest episode the host

  arrogantly say the listeners who want

  more focus don't get it

  no John we do get it we simply don't

  like it there is a reason most quote

  professional unquote podcast this week

  in tech macbreak weekly etc conform to a

  formula even if informally because there

  is an expectation on behalf of the

  listener we want to know who is talking

  we want the topics to be front-loaded we

  don't want ten percent or more the

  podcast to be rambling about your

  sponsors and lastly could be better

  three stars nice and five binary john

  gruber is tomás de Torquemada to Paul

  the rods don't a Hotei when it comes to

  thoughtful and authoritative commentary

  on technology the world of Apple would

  be a cold and vulnerable place without

  is insightful observations that being

  said the podcast is underwhelming due to

  its subpart production values and


  there's a lot of dead air arms as

  off-topic remarks that stretch for a

  long time and other minor annoying

  things which could hopefully be fixed in

  future episodes

  wait a minute I'll shoot I blew it

  these reviews are all from the old talk

  show ah these are all gosh these are

  healthy how did that happen I don't know

  all i'm good on your part

  let me get to the page for the new what

  a terrible goof here we go here's the

  new there's some reviews for the new

  talk show new listener for stars by iana


  I thought episode one was pretty good

  really don't mind the quote rambling

  some call it fun listening ears was just

  yeah I was gonna say i was wondering how

  many people who write those reviews are

  just simply don't like you I don't know

  I wonder

  here's another one by Patrick I go is it

  seems like one of the rare individuals

  who puts his name on these one-star

  review rambling painful recording

  quality if you've ever wondered whether

  dan Benjamin was critical to the talk

  show now you know he was the new guy

  can't keep Gruber on track and seems to

  record himself through his built-in

  laptop life

  ok alright that was not my built-in

  laptop Mike it was however a microphone

  on the wrong setting

  so today and and to the person who

  insinuated that i did not have enough

  money to buy a good Mike I actually have

  two mics and today I'm using the the

  better of the two which is slightly

  trickier to set up and I went the extra

  mile today and I should have gone the

  extra mile the last time and i should

  say this is a spot on criticism

  i'm joined again by my good friend John

  Smoltz i'm john gruber this is the the

  talk show the new talk show me one more

  of these these is this is for the new

  one this is for this from Jim lipsy

  amateurish one-star no one knows his

  subject matter as well as John Gruber

  when he's focused and on point it's

  great listening and Benjamin is why the

  show used to consistently reach its

  potential kept things on track with just

  the right amount of conversational


  he made it look easy now Gruber is

  trying out the driver's seat and a

  format that features rotating guests and

  the whole thing has become a meandering

  mess that was exactly like listening to

  two guys BS each other at the next table

  at starbucks for 90 minutes i see that i

  see it that pattern from the old reviews

  but maybe that's just me

  here's what here's a good one full of

  hot air one star by Donald rapido

  it was good when Benjamin was on it now

  it's just Gruber stroking his own leg

  o.o you go don't go

  I got you good yeah yeahs site i didn't

  want to pay extra my wife when I told

  her two weeks ago and you know big time

  it was a big deal when it was first

  episode of the the newly-launched talk

  shown and she said who's going to be on

  and I said molt's she was like oh my god

  that's great

  perfect choice and then last week she

  was like who's on and I said sandwich

  and she goes she like plots and then

  this week yeah she said was on and I

  said molt's and she says him again

  thanks for watching as as well all your

  listeners thanks for being here

  sure so what do we got this guy that I

  think probably the big thing if you're

  an apple apple nerd has got to be Tim

  Cook's appearance at all things D uh-huh

  so you know that's the big conference

  out there in California and it's in

  Southern California and even sure where

  that is

  yeah it is someplace in Southern

  California San San something

  yeah that's everything isn't everything

  right everything in southern yes exactly

  Santa doesn't count and something

  California and Tim coating is actually

  that it's and something which is Spanish

  for something else actually and they you

  know and that this is the only

  conference that I can recall that Steve

  Jobs ever regularly appeared at that was

  not an apple thing like mad world or

  WWDC and in fact they did a very what i

  think is very nice thing is they

  packaged up his six previous appearances

  and I've made them available you know as

  high-quality as they could get them free

  of charges like a podcast on itunes

  going back to 2003 or something like


  right into it i forget which but yes so

  pretty far back and I've seen an actual

  number of them but i have not seen them

  that far back so i'm gonna be interested

  to watch those yeah i think the older

  ones have got to be the ones that are

  most interesting right because you know

  Apple was a very different company in

  2003 yeah well they got before the ipod

  well no the ipod was just was pretty

  much brand new way at you know what is

  coming years one of those weird things

  that I remember I don't have a great

  memory for stuff a decade ago but I

  remember that the ipod is exactly as old

  as 911 because the launch was apparent

  raid pushed back by a month because of

  how 911 that they know we're going to do

  it in September someone they pushed it

  back to november so it's 2011 art 2001

  did you buy one when it right when it

  came out

  not for myself I bought that first one

  no for Amy as a christmas present and I

  think historical and you know we've been

  together very long time I thought I

  believe that easily goes down as maybe

  the greatest Christmas present ever

  purchased outright 499 I believe yeah

  not bad i mean that's that's that's

  pretty good chunk of change

  yeah because she's not i still have you

  had a statement

  what was the name of that brand it was a

  solid stereo yeah I had one of those two

  it was a rio and she you know wore it to

  the gym and really liked it because you

  know you didn't have to have it you know

  disc players are never good for like

  working out and take players sound like

  crap and we had the napster so we had

  tons of mp3's and everything like that

  but you got the the Rio and the Rio I

  swear this is no not exaggerating for

  the sake of humor it held eight songs

  i I really i mean as much as I'd like

  64k or something like that i'm not not

  not not good quality either write it was

  like 128 kilobits per second mp3's and

  hold around eight to 10 of them and and

  the interface for getting songs in and

  off on and off of it from a mac was just

  awful i think until that was the app

  that became itunes sound jam

  yes it sounds him help with that but

  then getting are upgrading our 22 a real

  original ipod was a huge one

  she will also if you ever catch her if

  you catch her at you know and it

  someplace where you run into me and my

  wife and ask her she will sing the

  praises endlessly of the original click

  wheel the one that actually spun really

  just because of the physical feat the


  yeah she always enjoyed that sheet that

  we said she's always been a much bigger

  ipod user then I was so hurt you as much

  stronger opinions on the various ipods

  through the years than be so tim cook at

  all things D yeah i might take on this

  I thought it was pretty interesting i

  watched it I read the the live blog and

  much like Steve Jobs he's he's good you

  know and it's you know it's an

  interesting choice and a huge score for

  that conference you know for Walt

  Mossberg and Kara Swisher that Apple's

  CEOs two of them trust them so much to

  make this you know it really is

  extraordinary they don't really speak

  elsewhere Tim Cook I guess speaks at

  regularly at the goldman sachs

  conference so it's not quite as

  exclusive again as it was for steve jobs

  but it's pretty pretty exclusive on and

  i need to do a good job but I also think

  that they waste an awful lot of time

  asking him questions that they know he's

  not going to answer right like if you've

  got Tim Cook onstage for 70 minutes why

  why keep repeatedly try to get

  information about new products out of

  them right i mean that's a good grabbing

  I guess they feel that they have to do


  I mean it's sort of like this it's the

  same thing on the quarterly conference

  calls with are constantly trying to get


  coming products and they say sorry we're

  not going we're not going to give you

  the information i mean i guess they feel

  that that's their they have to they have

  to do that

  don't you think that they could get it

  out of the way and maybe all right you

  have to at least acknowledge it and but

  you have to eat even if he comes back

  next year get out of the way early and

  just say you're not going to talk about

  anything that's coming are you will say

  no and then that's it and then you don't

  really have to to do it

  yeah I i think they they sort of feel

  like that's the tough question that

  they're going to ask him

  I mean these things are not exactly

  contra adversarial it's not 60 minutes

  with that although it's not and that's

  it that's as tough as they're going to

  get with him is trying to drill him on

  new products and so they they trying to

  it I almost think that it's a waste of

  time though and and I feel like he's

  actually and jobs too often is

  completely tight-lipped about anything

  forthcoming but is surprisingly honest

  and to the point about what they've done

  and why so for example just one reason I

  think tremendous example that we're

  still going to be talking about

  repeatedly for the next couple of years

  that's the conference where jobs gave

  his cars trucks analogy that post-pc

  devices like the iPad he sees that and

  the iphone he sees them like cars and he

  sees old traditional PCs windows and mac

  as like trucks and for a long time all

  we had were trucks but it ends up most

  people don't need a truck they're better

  off with a smaller car and that's what

  people are switching to their more

  simple and people who really do need

  trucks there will still be trucks but

  it's going to switch and I think the

  analogy is terrific

  I think it is very apt analogy then it

  came at that conference I think Tim Cook

  is similarly open

  yeah so you think i mean you think there

  is just a waste of time for them to ask

  that question i agree that it is a waste

  of time for them to ask the question i'm

  just saying that that's probably their

  their motivation right

  our friend Mike Daisey still added he he

  he was not happy with the interview

  Tim Cook felt they should have been

  harder on him

  surprise surprise regarding the asian

  suppliers and the working conditions

  there i'm gonna i'm not opposed to

  something and I think in a way he's

  right but it's obviously not the venue

  for that and obviously what's going to

  happen is if they start asking questions

  that are like this these CEOs don't like

  they're gonna stop showing up to those

  conferences so we're in a way they're

  they're just doing it because they have

  to in order to pull the conference off

  and get a bunch of big names that they

  want right there's somebody somebody

  should be i agree with him that somebody

  should be asking those questions it's

  not obviously not gonna happen at that

  conference right he actually lost in the

  lost in this point that that mike daisey

  is pretty much lost all of his personal

  credibility he actually has a some

  decent questions that could have been

  asked as a follow-up because i think the

  one day and could you know is absolutely

  right about this that Apple is leading

  the industry in this regard right now

  no other company that's in the same

  racket is Apple is as open about the

  working conditions in their factories

  and in China as Apple is and they're

  getting more aggressive about it there

  instead of doing annual updates they're

  doing monthly updates and I think that's

  terrific i do think it's a step in the

  right direction and I think he was

  pretty open about the issues of AA

  manufacturing in the United States and

  admitted and I know this isn't this now

  isn't it was an answer that was in

  answer to a specific question about why

  they don't write have factories in the

  united states right but he does just not

  exactly the same question right

  he made a point of emphasizing that the

  gorilla glass that used for the

  touchscreens is literally made in the

  USA not just designed and in the chest

  the a5 right but I think for the most

  part it was a pretty good interview he

  also said what the big thing he said I

  that I took away was that that there is

  a company doubling down on product


  yeah that that phrases

  slightly annoying but doubling down

  doubling down somebody pointed i wish i

  knew i would remember his name somebody

  pointed out to me on twitter that he's

  doing an awful lot of doubling down ya

  know any used it used more than once


  they're also doubling down on Cirie and

  i forget what else maybe that might be

  the only two but somebody said maybe you

  don't want to go to play blackjack with

  my getting two cards you get these don't

  let down got a 15 against the dealer

  thing i'm comin down

  sure yep they have they've got a pretty

  good hand though

  well at least they have a big pilot

  ships in front of the end that too so

  you can afford to double down when you

  have a gigantic stacking chips but i do

  think I i do think it's true that

  secrecy if anything and that's one of

  those things these these like what's

  going to be different when Steve now

  that Steve Jobs is gone are they going

  to be less secretive or people i know

  there are some people who are

  speculating that maybe they don't want

  to be less secretive but people aren't

  going to be it was fear that kept the

  what the the planets in line you know

  fear of this death start and where the

  death star was Steve Jobs screaming at

  you and firing you

  the leaks will happen but I from

  everything I've seen that has gotten

  more secretive over the last year like

  the big one to me is mountain-lion that

  nobody knew the mountain lion was coming

  until they brief the press on it

  there were no rumors that hey you know

  Apple actually going to do 10.8 this


  yeah and you've pointed out of minutes

  there seems there's a number of open

  tracks at WWDC and nobody really seems

  to know what's going to be in the house

  we can come back to that in a minute

  idea but i want to talk about the the

  rumor thing first the other thing that

  is definitely true and you see it this

  week with no 9to5 mac had a bunch of

  images the one thing that does leak is

  hardware pre-release hardware because it

  right because I they just don't have as

  much control over that once in asia and

  they're prototyping stuff as they do the

  software the software in

  cupertino i think is is as secret as

  it's ever been

  you think that because that's the that's

  the biggest vector for for leaks that

  digit times would do better than it does

  exactly that affects millions like her

  that's their source my are you know that

  and actually write capable of the the

  best managing that better

  the best and most accurate source of

  weeks about at forthcoming apple

  products is the asian supply chain and

  digit times which is based in Asia and

  pretty much covers the agent supply

  chain his little is accurate and ample

  room and that's always their source

  that's always what they say with their

  sources are sources in the sponging

  right i wanted to talk about this with

  you I'm the first episode and didn't get

  around to it because the show is

  rambling and unfocused of course and i'm

  a bad host but and i'm a bad guest so

  but you ran and I know that you just

  because of that your your history that

  you like me are in a way obsessed with

  Apple rumor sites and have long been

  like from the nineties yep but almost in

  a meta sense we're almost what's most

  interesting about them isn't the actual


  it's the rumor sites yeah it wasn't

  always like that for me I think during

  the nineties i read them obsessively

  just because i really wanted to know

  what Apple is going to release next and

  it and I took them seriously took them

  much more seriously back then I do now

  or the thing and it was different it was

  different back then I think it was

  easier to get actually to get good

  rumors back then maybe person the first

  evening back at least enough to keep

  some semblance of credibility right you

  know that if you know only one out of so

  many actually end up turning out it's

  enough to keep people coming back it's

  that whole you know risk versus reward

  type thing where you are i'm going to

  read this rumor and hope that it's true

  i'm kinda taking a risk by wasting my

  time reading all these rumors and you

  have to get the payoff of actually

  having some of them be accurate but it's

  all but always shocked me though is that

  in the grand scheme of things they were

  all even the ones that

  we're good were mostly inaccurate its

  you remember do you remember one I had I

  distinctly remember this and i have not

  been able to find it that apple would

  come out with crank powered laptops i do

  remember that yeah I definitely remember

  that yeah and i have not I that seems to

  have been 86 and I thought it was going

  but yeah it was now is good to me that

  was the pinnacle that was the late

  nineties and I was just and that was I

  think that the cracking point from New

  Yorker I and that's how I ended up

  starting to make fun of

  I I remember to I remember that rumor

  and and correct me if I'm pretty sure

  that it was also pitched as being a big

  deal for education

  yeah sure i'm not quite sure why because

  i think it had something to do with you

  know kids desks not being married powers

  lugs yeah but it's sitting under trees

  cranking there in the laptops not begin

  your day with like the Pledge of

  Allegiance and then you crank your

  laptop hanging I guess it's not the

  craziest idea that it i do remember that

  when I remember it was somehow pitch is

  being heated to deal for schools that

  schools can't can't get kids power plugs

  or something

  budget cutbacks yeah well there's no

  power all know the schools and power

  that was before the dark days back then

  search that money now

  yeah but you ran in a sense the only

  apple rumors site that had a perfect

  record because it's probably wrong

  everything on the crazy apple rumors

  site was completely made-up yeah yeah so

  did you ever have anyone crazy apple

  rumors that you made up but then turned

  out true i think so

  the one thing I mean though I wrote it

  wasn't on I wasn't crazy up rumors but I

  wrote this for macworld during because

  they do is annual you do this they do

  these annual predictions for the coming

  year and the the one they did and forge

  and the January 2007 issue i said that

  the Applewood release an iphone and it

  would have one button and that was you

  know at the time that was the craziest

  thing I could think of

  I just one button and you know there are

  you gonna get on the phone with one

  button how stupid is that that's great

  and well the whole iphone with one

  button that you find lots of bass i do

  remember that is actually spectacular

  that's my one claim to fame and I can't

  beat that I repeat that every chance I

  get and don't you just hope you really

  hope that like a guy like Schiller Rick

  happened to catch that one

  yeah they do oie must-own must-see he

  used to eat like don't wanna you wanna

  get in that you say he is to read the

  site i mean he was like he was actually

  a big fan of the site around crazy apple


  yeah and apparently would print them and

  they would print out some of that the

  good ones and and by post them on

  people's doors if I wrote something

  about one of the executives and I don't

  know how far it went I don't know which

  ones you don't get what he told me that

  somebody can be some of them liked it

  and some of them definitely did not like

  it at and so I always wondered which

  ones which was annoyed and which ones

  did not now filter I definitely has a

  good sense of humor

  yeah down at yeah uh-huh and you know

  the thing that make cars some funny was

  that it was often I to me it was the

  gist of each story was about a crazy

  apple product prediction or something

  that one you know somebody an apple is

  going to do but that what made them

  funny was the way that they played off

  the way that this so-called serious

  rumors sites presented their stuff

  uh-huh and you know I'd the only other

  thing that struck me is that the thing

  that makes a website popular is the

  thing I've I've learned running daring

  fireball which is not and has never been

  a rumor site but I've always had this

  infatuation my head of how would you run

  a rumor site that was actually accurate

  and in some sense for a couple of years

  there maybe that's what daring fireball

  was was that I you know had quote

  unquote little birdies and almost

  everything i got from the little birdies

  ended up being true but the way that I

  did that is only printing stuff that I

  knew to be true and that meant that in

  it then you don't you can't print enough


  I would only draw drop one of those

  things every couple of months and so if

  all there was a daring fireball

  were the rumors it would it would be a

  ghost town because it would be a sight

  that was updated at best once every six

  weeks or something like that and you

  can't run a website like that like what

  makes a website successful is regular

  publication guy you'd have to have some

  other you have to have some other hook

  some other and you have to do news and

  rumors right well nobody really know

  what do I mean does anybody do okay i

  guess there are some sites that will

  report on the on the rumors but it seems

  so haphazard and know that I think

  that's what makes Arnold Kim's search that's good that's

  good that's a good example yeah right

  Arnold Kim had what i think is the best

  idea which is to do a meta site where

  it's here's what's the rumors being

  reported elsewhere

  here's their track record and that's it

  yeah but even macrumors if you look at

  just read it every day a lot of it is

  actually just news you know it's like

  here's you know here's some new stuff

  that's going on in the in the community

  because you can't you just

  there's just not enough rumors to only

  have rumors and keep the site going

  right unless you did you just make crap

  up like me

  alright let me thank our first sponsor

  our first sponsor is excellent or pixel

  mentor is an inspiring easy-to-use

  beautifully designed image editor bill

  to help you create stunning new images

  and edit your existing photos on your

  mac right I'm just gonna come out and

  say it

  here's the thing it's like photoshop but

  it's 30 bucks and it's mac only and it's

  built on all these great Mac

  technologies and for years and years and

  years and John I think you'll agree with

  me people used to say as photoshop got

  more expensive and photoshopped a great

  app but it's very expensive right now a

  new copy of photoshop from Adobe costs

  forty-five thousand dollars for a single

  seat license 45 thousand dollars people

  will say why can an indie developer why

  isn't there an indie developer out there

  who's going to make something that

  competes with photoshop doesn't have to

  do everything photoshop does just do

  most of it and do it really cool put in

  a beautiful Mac interface that's what

  pixelmon towards

  it's a great app 30 bucks in the mac app

  store you can find out more at their

  website or vix pls m8 eor dot-com

  it has replaced photoshop for me it's

  it's that I used to use i used photoshop

  originally and then and that became too

  much for me and then I went to the

  what's the crew their consumer photoshop

  light somebody like that and and even

  that was was too much and pick some

  stores even less than that even more or

  less expensive than it does everything

  that there are as far as i know it does

  everything that they're the photoshop

  lite version does because that's all I

  ever used anyway and i think i think

  that this did the short answer to the

  why don't why aren't there some indie

  developers doing that sort of

  stripped-down something like photoshop

  but you know far less expensive and mac

  specific was that there was just even

  just the rudimentary just the the least

  version 1.0 you could feasibly ship was

  just too much work for a small team

  until Mac os10 added a bunch of these

  graphics libraries that apps like pixel

  matura can can build on to do stuff like

  the filters and have stuff that

  automatically goes to the GPU instead of

  the cpu for performance so it's because

  it's max specific it's you know because

  it uses all of these image stuff and

  Coco that that it's even possible

  did you get that pronunciation from them

  you know what I hope to god I got the

  pronunciation right because I always but

  I've been saying

  pixelmator I let's find out

  you want to bet five bucks on it sure

  what the heck alright like Pixelmator

  like like the video game version of the

  truck from cars

  yes yeah what's next

  what about Windows 8 you wrote a piece

  for macworld about windows 8 did i think

  is eligible areas that was my hope right

  that macworld is running articles on

  windows 8 which i think is no you just

  think that they ran it was funny

  yeah right

  but i do think though I think that the

  Ark of the industry in broad terms is

  that there was sort of a of I think the

  Mac os10 era and the matter windows XP

  era you know starting around 10 years

  ago really kind of separated and mac

  people were just mad people and windows

  people were windows people i think a lot

  of mac people just tuned out of windows

  I mean I've got a long time without even

  touching a version of windows just

  wasn't even interesting to me and I feel

  like with windows 8 and with all these

  people switching to iOS it's coming back

  together and there's a lot of people i

  think there's a lot more interest in

  windows 8 from Mac people than anything

  Microsoft's put out a long time I think

  that's true i mean i-i was interested

  and I was not i mean i had to use

  windows at work where I worked and so I

  got to know it that way but I would

  never have gone out and found out about

  it on my own probably and this version i

  think is there's a lot there's bigger

  like I said it's it's so vastly

  different from previous versions of

  Windows that it's it obvious all that

  stuff that we as Mac users found

  distasteful will give me an example

  well just the whole the whole metro

  interface it's so basically the fact

  that you could really use it without

  ever having to touch the Windows desktop

  right which is one of the things that we

  just never really never really clicked

  for us so and there's some great things

  about I think there's some really nice

  things about the Metro interface and I

  would be interested to try it on a

  tablet i don't have a tablet i could try

  it on but it's there's some strange

  strange and acronyms on a desktop device

  because it seems really oriented towards

  a touch device right that to me is when

  I haven't spent a lot of time we using

  it but it just looks to me like it is

  meant for a tablet and die can see why

  and it is definitely all credit to

  Microsoft I repeat this over and over

  again it is like nothing I've seen

  before and I also

  think a lot of people when the first

  windows seven phones came out which is

  the same metro basic UI style or metro

  de beauté on the phones i think a lot

  of people looked at in a first

  impression was this looks cool but it

  almost looks like something that's meant

  for a bigger screen because the on the


  metro often has like if you have like a

  little left to right thing that you can

  flip through the next thing to the right

  you see like the first I don't know 15

  pixels of it over there on the right

  edge like it's sitting there to give you

  that visual clue that there's something

  over there but it almost makes it look

  like but you're getting too tight of a

  crop on the interface it really looks

  like it was meant to run on a tablet and

  I guess we'll find out

  here's here's did you see this thing by

  this guy Michael mace yeah so you sent

  that to me so I think it was the first

  time I'd seen it because it's a great

  post as long as very long very detailed

  but but i think i completely agree with


  alright here's the thing he says and I

  right in the middle but uh I think it's

  the most important thing he says the

  most important message I want you to

  understand is this

  Windows 8 is not Windows Microsoft calls

  it windows a lot of Windows code may

  still be present in the hood

  Windows 8 is a completely new operating

  system in every way that matters to

  users degree

  yeah i think LOL i mean i don't know

  about completely new operating system

  but it is a largely new operating system

  and that was one of the points that i

  made my pieces is for enterprises which

  is where you know most of Microsoft's

  customer base or the biggest paying base

  they are going to be faced with a real

  challenge and implementing that

  operating system because they don't want

  to have to go through and retrain

  everybody on how to use windows right

  and a lot of them you know they stuck on

  XP for so long that they and then vista

  came out there like that doesn't seem to

  be working very well so let's wait for

  the next thing they waited for windows 7

  and a lot of them have just finished

  migrating to windows seven and now

  they're faced with this thing that's

  completely new i think a lot of them are

  just gonna give it a pass for now and

  see what happens with the next version

  mmm yeah I I really

  wonder I don't know it just seems like

  it just seems like all because it's like

  a tablet looking OS it just seems like

  it would be silly on like a 27-inch

  screen on your desk

  yeah just like it just doesn't seem like

  the ipad interface as it stands would be

  all that would be what you'd want on a

  27 inch touchscreen thing I still think

  that they're calling it windows is like

  if Matt if Apple had called iOS Mac OS

  touch it doesn't mean there's the the

  metaphors completely collapsing too

  because they've removed and affect the

  windowing because they all the

  everything runs full screen now right

  where's right originally and it was much

  worse with with the original versions of

  Windows Windows 31 where everything was

  in a window and now they've gone

  completely you know they just got rid of

  all the windows and just that that

  doesn't make any sense anymore right the

  whole point of calling it windows was it

  was all about windows and now they don't

  have any windows and now everything

  lowercase with now everything runs full


  I blend Ballmer I yeah I mean it's

  that's the that seems to be the most

  obvious thing to do

  I think he got I think that at some

  point 10 years ago he went out and got a

  windows tattoo and you know that tattoo

  isn't going anywhere like the zune guy

  yeah exactly like the zune guy and so

  everything is windows from from here on

  that resume i eventually get apparently

  got that tattoo removed

  did you really yeah I did you didn't

  like a is you didn't like the fact that

  they weren't supporting it enough or

  that they had basically effectively

  abandoned it and laser surgery to remove

  the tattoo I really worry about that guy

  I wouldn't worry about the guy who got

  an ipod tattoo Franklin yeah yeah I

  don't really think that's not you know I

  unsurprisingly perhaps too i'm not

  really a two-person now i'm not but i

  guess i can't think of anything that I

  would want permanently on my exactly but

  you know if you do if there's some

  design that

  that you would like to have on your

  permanent more power to you particularly

  suited and suit local forehead that soon

  Logan really relations and especially

  like you didn't lose a bet or anything

  like he just went out there and got that


  so you see is that the next thing on my

  list is this thing at the eff at the

  Electronic Frontier Foundation two piece

  on Apple's quote crystal prison GSP's I

  did by michael lee and Peter Eckersley

  what's your take on this

  well i doing just read it a quick so

  yeah go ahead of them two weeks ago

  Steve Wozniak made a public call for

  Apple to open its platforms for those

  who wish to tinker tweak and innovate

  with their internals BFF supports

  Wozniak's position while apple's

  positions have many virtues they are

  marred by an ugly set of restrictions on

  what users and programmers can do with


  this is most especially true of iOS no

  other apple products sometimes suffer in

  the same way and then at the end and i

  think at the end it's more interesting

  where they have a like a bill of rights

  yeah towards the bill of rights for

  mobile computer owners there's four

  rights that people purchasing computer

  should enjoy one installation of

  arbitrary applications on the device to

  access to the phone OS at the root

  superuser hypervisor administrator level

  3 the option to install a different OS

  altogether people want to install linux

  on their phones etc etc hardware

  warranties that are clearly independent

  of software warranties

  well I can get behind one of those I I

  mean technically I can get behind all

  four of them but i only I frankly only

  give a rip about number four right i

  mean i'm never gonna take am never going

  to take advantage of the other ones most

  likely so them right I'd when I have a

  hard time if your screen goes bad if

  your battery is actually like physically

  like doesn't write charge and you're

  under warranty it shouldn't matter

  whether you've jailbroken or not because

  I don't you know that's not the sort of

  thing that could they could do that I

  doesn't blow it does

  ruin the pixels on your screen like

  something that you do through the

  software which is all jailbreak breaking

  is should avoid the hardware like a

  button breaks or something like that

  I totally agree with that and I don't

  know that a maybe somebody out there

  correct me and I'll read the correction

  last week i'm not sure that Apple's all

  that hardcore about that like if you

  bring in a jailbroken phone and it's

  clearly a hardware problem did they tell

  you to go blow I think they're I don't

  think they do that I don't know about

  recently I know there was some evidence

  that they were not really following

  through with that people were bringing

  in jailbroken phones and if it was an

  obvious problem that they could fix the

  right except i think they might do is

  they might ask you to restore in itunes

  to a not sure open state and then if the

  problem is still there then they can

  then they can proceed

  yeah which is I think that's fine right

  I i think that it but if there's stop if

  there's stopping people from getting

  service simply because they have broken

  their chill there the jailbroken phone

  then I don't think that's something that

  they should be and authoring what the

  eff i have given them money i'm sure

  that at some point in the future i will

  give them money again and and on First

  Amendment issues

  I you know couldn't be more staunchly

  and support of them and for certain

  certain other things like if if if Apple

  started pursuing legal action against

  jailbreak developers i'm sure the eff

  would back them up and help them legally

  and i would support that I would

  contribute money for that I don't

  jailbreak my phone but I certainly don't

  think there's anything wrong with the

  enthusiasts to look for the ways to do

  that I don't think there's anything

  wrong with jailbreaking your phone right

  but I also wouldn't blame apple for

  continuing to close all of the bugs that

  the jailbreakers used to get the

  jailbreak in the first place

  right because if you can jailbreak it

  you can use that bug do something out

  right so the i would totally be behind

  the eff and that support but I feel like

  the eff is just way out and it lala land

  just irrelevant yeah like totally

  missing the entire point of what actual

  people want need from their computers by

  calling these things ability right and

  they really seem to not take give any

  credit to the the idea that this is a

  really making the platform or secure

  some of these things are making a

  platform or secure right there's no

  mention of security and there's no

  mention of simplicity and ease of use

  like I mentioned this over and over and

  I think that the whole appeal of iOS I

  think again it's all these did the 67

  million iOS devices apple sells for

  every quarter or whatever the real

  numbers but that fundamentally they

  appeal to most people is that they it's

  a system they know they they can get

  around in

  they know how to get around and they

  know they're not gonna mess anything up

  there's no way to mess it up you can

  some also mentioned that they do also

  include windows RT in this threat so

  that they're not exclusively slamming

  Apple but that's their major focus right

  now but they do they do mention windows

  RT which will be slipped similarly

  lockdown right so like the idea of a

  phone that has the option to boot to a

  different OS well that's a fine idea if

  someone thinks there's money to be made

  making phones that that can dual boot

  different phone os's but I certainly

  don't think it's a bill of rights and

  that users should demand that every

  phone they can buy can boot multiple

  os's and I just saw somebody else i

  guess i wish i could link to open i

  don't have in front of me but somebody

  pointed out that for God's sake the pc

  the personal computer is a device that

  was literally built to support and you

  know an abstraction between the hardware

  in the OS and that there is and it's for

  old Wang over a decade been linux 4pcs

  and still like nobody wants to put linux

  on their pc like one percent or

  something like that so it's not exactly

  you know like if Apple that you know

  announces the WWDC that the iphone now

  supports dual booting to linux

  I get the eff i'm sure would hail this

  as a great move and thank them for it

  and I think everybody else collectively

  would wonder if you know Tim Cook had a

  stroke right i mean all of a sudden can

  you imagine what Apple's talking to do i

  think apple stock would tank immediately

  because I feel like everybody

  not that it would actually anybody would

  actually do I just feel like it'd be a

  sign that you know that there's a lot of

  you know like mad men style drinking

  going on during the day

  cupertino ex-wife have to apply for a

  job access to the phone OS at the root

  superuser level here you go mom

  login as root on your phone i add yeah I

  just see a lot of like I'm never going

  to use it and I see a lot of potential

  I mean for and I know they get they get

  so bent out of shape when you talk about

  you that the mom or the simplistic user

  because they prefer not to think that

  that person exists but there really are

  people who don't pay either don't want

  to deal with that or are really not

  capable of dealing with that right and i

  think it might you said it would

  what they're doing is they're they're

  not even acknowledging the trade-offs

  that are involved right

  nobody is denying that for some people

  and in some use cases these things

  they're saying like having root access

  to your phone or the first one being

  able to install arbitrary applications

  on the device right you know it if Apple

  switch to make the iphone like mac OS as

  we know it now or by default it only

  takes apps from the App Store but you

  can go into settings and flip a couple

  of switches and say all right now you

  can install apps from any signed

  developer in the Apple Developer Program

  you can just download it from their

  website and in mobile support may be

  right on your phone download it from

  their website put in you know an

  administrator password or something like

  that to authorize it and then boom

  you've got that app on your phone and

  then maybe a third option that would say

  you know what install options from any

  source whether they're signed or not

  and then give you a little warning about

  you know maybe why you don't want to do

  that if they did that you know a lot of

  people would rejoice

  I don't know that it would be a bad

  thing it might be you know might be a

  reasonable trade-off maybe that's where

  they'll end up eventually maybe maybe

  five years from now they might be forced

  into something like that through

  antitrust legislation if this stuff

  keeps growing but i don't think that

  there's any reason to consider it like a

  moral obligation that it has to be that

  way and I think it's ridiculous not to

  acknowledge that the way things are

  right now though more restricted is

  actually more bulletproof right nobody's

  going to get confused in settings and

  flip the wrong switch and end up with

  apps that haven't gone through the app


  what do you think what do you think

  apples motivation is and not what do you

  think they're real motivation is and not

  doing allowing that level of access

  I mean they are the thing that they

  everybody always says oh they want

  everybody to go through the app store so

  they can make money off the app store

  well i know i mean the app store isn't

  really where they make most of their

  money make most their money selling the

  device actually pretty really wanted

  people really wanted devices that were

  unlocked that way i think they would

  have to ship them that way I i think

  it's about control

  you know I think it's about wanting to

  maintain control over the experience and

  that they think that for most people

  it's better this way and that they've

  very very seldom if ever in the

  company's history

  have they look back and regretted

  maintaining more control in their hands

  and look issuing more control rather

  than give the control the users and let

  them make choices in hindsight like

  who's really like I you know I mean it's

  it's harder to put that it's a genie

  that's hard to get back in the bottle

  yeah where it's easier to roll it out

  this way started literally with no apps

  right go a whole year without any

  supported third-party apps and then when

  the app store opened it was more

  restrictive than it is today

  like when it first opened there are

  these rules like we're Calendar apps and

  third-party email client for being

  rejected because they were duplicating

  what was the phrase existing

  functionality yeah like there was I

  gotta somehow like a rule that if it was

  one of the apps built into the iphone

  like calendar or mail you couldn't

  duplicate it in the app store with an

  alternative and it was you know

  obviously that was really really

  inconsistent because there were a lot of

  weather apps right from the day one and

  people like well if you can make weather

  apps why can't you make another

  calendaring up i hate apples calendar

  app and my thought on that was I had

  this theory at first then that the ones

  that Apple wasn't gonna let be

  duplicated we're the ones in the dock

  the main apps which was like the music

  playing app email the web browser and

  phone what's the other one with someone

  that's in that the dock on the ipod

  touch i guess it's video is a video and

  probably I don't know they replaced the

  phone icon with video music but even

  that's not true anymore right there's

  there's gmail clients there's the great

  sparrow app which is a truly remarkable

  really full-fledged email client for the

  iphone have you ever used sparrow

  I'm not actually i personally don't like

  it more than male but it's it's really

  really close

  it's a great app and the team yeah i

  know lots of people like it

  those things a lot differently i mean

  one of the things they've added is like

  a gesture to go to the next message

  so instead of having to find a little

  button or go back and then go to the

  next button you can just do a gesture

  which is I think a great idea to somehow

  some way that you can just swipe swipe

  swipe to read to read the email which

  again is also a lot it's it's a very

  metro e-type experience like when I've

  used Windows Phone in some ways windows

  phone is better for reading email

  especially on a device you know small

  screen because you just swipe swipe

  swipe to go through messages did you see

  you can now get a batman-themed windows

  phone i did see that yeah i did see that

  that's from nokia right kind of badass

  it actually looks it does look pretty

  good i think it's it's implemented

  really well it's not implemented in a

  really tacky way I don't I don't I don't

  think it's going to change their

  fortunes now now you know i i've always

  thought this because i always think and

  I think clearly of the all the

  superheroes Batman has the best logo

  oh yeah but so in addition to being a a

  billionaire industrialist and

  crime-fighting Crusader and the world's

  greatest detective Bruce Wayne is also a

  remarkably talented logo designer and

  and sort of brand brand or apprehend

  right i mean he's really you know he's

  he convinced the police department to

  shine his logo across the whole city is

  little uh little throwing stars are

  shaped like bats right Superman Superman

  didn't even make his own logo that's

  just like his family's crest I mean that

  you know that was made by by some you

  know Superman was really the worst right

  i mean Superman million certainly have

  all the popular ones Superman is kind of

  the worst superhero and his poor color

  to the leases take a colors just tasting

  colors as bad guy released interesting


  Green Lantern good logo but he didn't

  make it that's the lantern for the whole

  green lantern corps which has been

  around i don't know right

  10mm iya ya millennia spider-man

  not bad not bad not bad yeah but this

  right-hander ball over a teenager we

  wouldn't be talking about if Nokia had a

  spider-man right

  they probably do who maybe they do you

  know I guess in spider-man's coming out

  this summer too i guess spider-man and

  Batman will be right up against what i

  was thinking that's why i was thinking

  maybe they actually do have one yeah

  hello together they gotta get on that

  yeah you see rims floating down the

  toilet having a there i mean it's got a

  point and I know that we I used to make

  fun of them and it's not it's almost

  it's really not funny and it's getting

  to the point now where is

  I almost resistant I try not to make

  jokes when I link to the stuff i just

  linked to it and let it speak for itself

  because I do know there's a lot of

  people who work there is getting to the

  point now where I really you know and I

  don't like to hear about people getting

  laid off

  yeah i really don't and I don't think

  there's any humor in that but it really

  is starting to look bad for him because

  they're talking around this for baseball

  this is where they do implement the

  mercy roll right right

  this is where the Empire just comes in

  succumb to this is ok ok

  games over right and you did or like

  miniature golf

  you know like when you go miniature

  golfing there's like a limit of six six

  or seven strokes per hole right like you

  know I mean like in your stole here

  sitting on the icon away right you're

  still on the other side of the windmill

  you get to just pick up your ball and

  put a six on the card like you don't

  have to you don't have to finish this

  that's why I guess that's what they

  could use because what's the story

  simply mercy rule you just lose but with

  that they could keep playing

  they've taken these mark mark downs or

  something like that they call them on an

  unsold inventory and they've done a

  couple of them over the last year and

  now they're talking that they might have

  like a billion dollars and unsold

  inventory just piles and piles of of

  unsold blackberry phones i guess tablets

  although a good you know whoever it was

  still whoever didn't turn the off switch

  on the tablet under tablets production

  line a couple of months ago a trim

  really really needs to be the first one


  I mean if they're still making those

  things and have unsold inventory

  I mean it's no surprise that they're in

  trouble I don't know what you do and

  that such and what it enters any way out

  of that hole right

  I don't know either it's a it's a bad

  circle to go in you know where it to

  sort of spirals down and I think so much

  deeper hold an apple was in in the

  mid-nineties yeah I definitely think so

  I I definitely think it's a deeper hole

  because the thing the weird thing about

  apple in the nineties was that when

  Apple was at its financial worst they

  were actually selling more computers per

  quarter than they had before and then

  then they were after jobs came back when

  jobs came back he cleaned up the product

  line and he did have them doing

  profitable quarter after profitable

  quarter they

  turning profits but they were actually

  doing it by selling like a lot less max

  per quarter it was by focusing and you

  know they were selling all these max but

  doing it at a loss and but it's still

  it's like not a war situation to be in

  to have those sales that were there

  quarter after quarter where his rims

  problem is that sales are just dropping

  off a cliff they're just selling fewer

  and fewer phones every quarter and

  that's really their business

  I'm gonna have no there's nothing there

  no alternative I mean there's nothing to

  ya right and I don't think that they

  have the core audience that that Apple

  had with the mac i mean obviously

  there's there's blackberry addicts i'm

  sure you know but i don't think that

  that that they're not faithful the way

  that things were faithful back them

  right there is I think there's an awful

  lot of blackberry users have already

  moved on to android and iphone in her

  happy for it that they just saw it is a

  cool gadget not really that they were

  blackberry people but they were like

  cool smartphone people

  yes it's I don't envy them right and I'm

  gonna be that guy that took over

  well that'll be there'll be lots of a i

  would imagine we'll get some interesting

  business analysis after the fact about

  what happened

  let me do the second sponsor right now

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  Sheila's is an app that just narrows in

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  nothing wrong with that but humorless is

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  here's a quote from one of their beta

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  nicely when i use Heelys on my iPhone I

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  like loading your camera with

  black-and-white film the resulting

  photographs are genuinely retro without

  any contrivance it's a great app and get

  it on the app store and you can find out

  more info at hewlett I've got it

  on my second screen my iphone did you

  ever go through a black-and-white phase

  with a film camera

  oh absolutely i am I got into

  photography in the late nineties and i

  bought the the lowest and canon SLR like

  200 bucks and you know it was SLR not

  DSLR yet issued film and yeah you know I

  was amazed at how much better the

  pictures looked in on the pre SLR

  cameras that I had but Dad then I

  quickly got into black and white and i

  found that the other thing I got into is

  the fixed lenses did not a zoom lens

  just like a static just a fifty-dollar

  or eighty dollar fifty millimeter

  Atlanta heard that could shoot really

  nice and low light but I found that I

  became a better photographer by having

  fewer options so yeah if you want it

  that would the subject to be bigger you

  get closer if you want more of the

  background in you move further away

  that's the only thing there's no

  decision about whether you zoom in or

  zoom out or move you have to move

  I'm black-and-white shooting

  black-and-white is the exact same thing

  and it absolutely i think I'm and you

  know I know people have friends

  no you're far far better photographers

  and i'm going to teach photography

  classes and people like james duncan

  davidson it you know just shoot

  photography professionally I I don't

  know anybody who would tell you any any

  good photographer would tell you that

  you won't become a better photographer

  by shooting black-and-white you'll

  become a better color photographer by

  learning to shoot black-and-white

  because you learn how to find

  interesting shadows and contrast and

  stuff like that looks good in color too

  yeah I think they used to start students

  out that way i remember correctly cuz I

  took a class years ago and i'm pretty

  sure we started out shooting

  black-and-white and beyond and there

  were technical reasons for that because

  it was easier and cheaper to develop a

  curriculum yeah and you know that was

  also part of the experience of learning

  to be a photographer serious

  photographers learning how to you know

  develop your film in a dark room and

  technically it was easier

  black-and-white I think the chemicals

  are less expensive or you know I don't

  know it's just yeah i know i think

  that's true i think that's your from

  what i remember and I just I also but I

  just came down to enjoy it too i really

  like shooting a black-and-white i think

  possibly because I'm not a good i'm not

  a great photographer and I think it

  actually made my pictures look better

  and I had a I had a pentax k1000 which

  was a fully manual camera which was a

  crate camera and eventually got stolen

  and I just I was heartbroken when I

  camera got stolen but I went I went

  through many many roles of

  black-and-white black-and-white film

  back in the day and that was just and

  ended up with some great some great

  pictures someone i still have boxes

  lying around the house definitely one

  Jonas was born I was still mostly

  shooting with the film camera this was

  2004 so like first first year i'd say

  maybe not half but maybe at least a

  third of the photos from his first year

  I have been black and white and i just

  love those photos there is in especially

  as time goes on there's something

  archival about black and white


  yeah you know the funny thing is you say

  you have a pentax you had a padded

  pentax k1000 you know it's funny I know

  that camera i actually have one here

  that I

  I've found in seattle about 20 minutes

  ya found by crawling on window and a

  first-floor apartment highway going into

  a closet in the bedroom

  yeah it's funny how that happens

  John ask a big favor of you

  ok this is why this honesty is why I

  wanted you back on the show and I have a

  lot of people are saying can't believe

  Maltese back on the show yeah but I my

  goal for this show is to have it to be

  like hosting Saturday Night Live for

  people brag about how many times that

  they've been the guests on the talk show

  right and right now you're in the lead

  you've got to write and that's great

  I had your back because there was nobody

  else who I could bear to ask to talk

  about this last this last subject only

  you you're the only one who I think can

  take it I don't think anybody else has

  the Constitution did I think this is a

  lot this is a lot yeah I know I know the

  one our friends a lot it's a lot to ask

  our friend hazers Diaz gizmodo i'm going

  to read that i'm just going to read the

  headline on this is from moans this is

  yesterday two days ago couple days and

  changes that must have Steve Jobs

  rolling in his grave because gizmodo

  wouldn't know

  wouldn't know

  I'm not gonna put the average anybody

  going to do the thing anybody wants that

  they can just google hazers Diaz 10

  things that have steve jobs in the two

  of us institutions clicking through to

  read it is enough

  yeah I'm not going to put for them

  probably more and more traffic than they


  here's the here's the thing this thing

  is so stupid it is like this if the Sun

  instead of emitting light if the Sun

  emitted stupid and you stared at it in a

  way that when the real world you stare

  at the Sun and you can go blind you if

  you really really stare at this article

  on haters Diaz little little little just

  wipe your brain out it's that stupid

  firsthand that the right of the top I

  mean that very coveted the tastelessness

  of having a picture of a zombie hand

  coming out of a great with an apple

  headstone my god it and then it says hey

  guys only been dead for like six months


  I hate the art that accompanies the

  article is is literally a zombie hand

  coming out of the ground with

  unbelievable and apple logo on it teams

  on the tombstone

  plus it's our favorite format a top-10


  yep i will say it's not it's not it's

  not a slide show how much did you just

  took the words out of you have the one

  and only good thing you could say that's

  what article is that it's not a

  slideshow that is the one and only good

  thing you can say about number one is

  siri according to his authorized

  biography jobs never really tried serie

  he was handed the iphone 4s at the last

  board meeting he attended just before he

  resigned blah blah

  don't get me started on Walter

  Isaacson's biography right now Walter

  Isaacson I'm sure had never seen Syria

  before that meeting right but the idea

  that Steve Jobs hadn't seen Syria until

  august of last year

  yeah use the CEO and at it as an Estill

  season ski at fortune just reported last

  week while he was CEO he effectively he

  pretty much did all the Steve Jobs

  deseos he did

  product design product marketing any ran

  mergers and acquisitions like when they

  wanted to buy someone they do sent Steve

  and Steve you know put his voodoo on

  somebody came out with the company steve

  jobs is the one who bought Siri Siri was

  a third-party app that apple acquired

  and when they acquired it Steve Jobs was

  the CEO he acquired the company so he is

  sight unseen right he acquired the

  company now presumably had never seen it

  before but he heard good things and

  bought the company right

  I as of last summer like a year ago

  right now in june of last year Steve

  Jobs was a man oh we don't know you know

  how when his health really declined but

  at the time he was healthy enough to

  actually be onstage at WWDC for the

  keynote he did the whole iCloud thing he

  was sort of the master of ceremonies

  presumably you would think apples

  implementation of series was in

  development at the time I mean I know

  the iphone 4s didn't come out until

  october but I don't think it's something

  they just kind of whip together yeah

  like a week after he submitted his

  resignation and became chairman of the

  board I it just defies belief that

  anybody thinks that he was not fully

  aware of love Siri now you may well be

  very front if he were around alive and


  he may well be just as frustrated as a

  lot of us with how far series com or how

  little it's come since it debuted and

  some of the inaccuracies and the latency

  and a lot of the things that you feel

  like it could do but doesn't do

  yeah it seems akin to any other thing is

  just the idea that he would never have

  shipped something like that and at the

  same time they also ship mobileme right

  so anyway you know after the fact was

  completely angry that I didn't work the

  way it's supposed to work and so maybe

  he would be in that position it would be

  that position right now but he'd

  probably roll over and can you imagine

  if apple / ship the phone that didn't do

  copy and paste that would never happen

  when I think jobs around i think that in

  the long term and the next three four

  five years ago be the worst part of Tim

  Cook's existence where every single

  thing that has that's less than perfect

  will be greeted with God Almighty the

  710 Stevens around and I keep I always

  come back to antennagate if antenna

  gated happened with the iphone 4s god

  help everybody at Apple because that

  would have been as as exaggerated as

  antennagate was with steve jobs at the

  helm handling it and running that that

  last minute all right let's just face

  this thing head-on press conference if

  that had happened after he died I mean I

  can't even imagine the the media

  apocalypse that would have happened even

  though it actually did happen the real

  antennagate did happen under steve job

  it would be branded as the you know the

  sign that Apple is falling apart

  number two on lasers Diaz top 10 list is

  the 69.5 phone screen and then I didn't

  even read this part all i know is that

  he's illustrated it with a picture of a

  giant 5 inch samsung phone it's just

  completely opposite of every single one

  of these rumors about the so-called

  iphone or from 16 an iphone 4 and iphone

  screen which is that is going to be the

  exact same with and the phone itself

  somebody just said yesterday is gonna be

  seven millimeters taller and most than

  the iphone 4 and 4s as we know them that

  the phone isn't getting bigger it's just

  that more of the front face will be

  devoted to the screen and I mean

  everybody never would have done it

  the phone the phone would have stayed

  exactly the same forever right i mean

  yeah he made he certainly make comments

  about lots of things that he didn't

  think you know at the time and I mean

  basically stuff that Apple didn't make

  right and and then later in many cases

  they didn't start making it and it

  really meant he's just sort of it was

  just sort of well i think that you know

  famously halogen around validating their

  fruit you know when they first ship to

  ipods with could this my from one of my

  favorites a first ship ipods with color

  screens but all they really did was show

  photographs and somebody asked him

  hold why not video he said I don't think

  anybody would ever want to watch video

  on the screen this size

  yeah end of quote that's it never gonna

  happen in a year later the ipod had the

  exact same size screen and played video

  right that's just what he's that you

  know everything that's just how he was

  mean and like Tim Cook said I thought

  was one of the best segments of his

  thing at all things D this week that

  that the man had a gift he called it a

  gift at doing a complete 180 one day

  over the next and he would forget that

  he was arguing the complete opposite

  point the day before that he could

  change his mind then that you know that

  there's just a good he was a good arguer

  right obviously right so I think

  everybody has that incident where nobody

  wants to be wrong and so a lot of people

  in the natural inclination for most of

  us is that once we've made up our mind

  we never change it because we don't have

  to admit you're wrong where Steve Jobs

  gift he still didn't want admit he was

  wrong he would just change his mind and

  then convince you that he had never

  taken the never change that number 17

  that is number seven on come on that is

  the AZ list is that he'd be rolling in

  his grave over apple's support of

  charities and I don't even know where to

  start this number one is that he points

  to apples participation in this product

  red thing which started like three or

  four years ago home like with the red

  ipod nano can happen when he was there I

  said in his voice is that the only went

  along with it because it was a marketing

  win for Apple to get you to display ipod

  and ok but yeah he actually did go along

  with it and one that a lot of other

  people site is that once Tim Cook became

  CEO few weeks later they announced a

  charitable donation matching where any

  apple employee donates to a registered

  401 C apple will match that up to i

  think like 10 grand a year which i think

  most companies Apple sighs do something

  like that

  right on now it's true that scream

  that's really just an example of them

  catching up with where they should be in

  the industry

  well but the other thing too is it

  happened like two weeks after cook

  over and I oh yeah I know firsthand that

  you know something that was like six

  months in the working behind ya you

  don't just you don't just do that in the

  right amount of time I would not be

  surprised one bit if Tim Cook personally

  it was was more into it and maybe even

  drove it while still coo and jobs was I

  get whatever you know I just don't think

  jobs gave much of a crap either way on

  something like that and I also wouldn't

  be surprised if once they got close to

  being able to announce it and and the

  whole sad truth of where Steve's health

  was going and and that he was going to

  resign and hopefully stay on as chairman

  of the board going forward etcetera

  etcetera that part of the strategy was

  hey this is the thing we can save and

  then when Tim takes over and see do you

  know it's like a little sort of throat

  clearing of settling your butt into the

  throne and learning how to wield the CEO

  scepter that you know have a little

  thing to do you know a little you know

  something to do when you're wielding the

  CEO stamp and why don't we save it up

  it'll be a nice little thing that he can

  do before we get to the to the real deal

  you know announcing things like the new

  iphone 4s and stuff like that and I

  wonder maybe if wonder if they queued up

  some of these things that are benefits

  to the employees as a way to try to say

  there and show them that they're going

  to be advantages to having Tim courtesy


  yeah I absolutely think they did you

  know I think this was in a very very

  well-managed transition you know I don't

  think you know I I'd would be surprised

  one bit if like as of a year ago at WWDC

  2011 when Steve Jobs was you know still

  well enough to be helping with the

  keynotes and and pitching things you

  know that there was still hope at the

  time that that this whole you know steve

  zahn believe he's not going to be there

  full-time but he's the CEO and cooks the

  clo that it would go on indefinitely

  that the company was doing just fine

  with that arrangement you know I'm sure

  nobody was was not one single person was

  hoping that it would turn out like it

  did or even you know that he would be

  forced to resign you know that nobody

  was looking forward to

  but i think it's it's just it's just


  I got just so stupid to think that he

  was opposed to it

  number nine company leaks like the ones

  with apple TV & foxconn what what

  exactly is leet with apple TV & foxconn

  right that was like the dumbest thing

  ever and you did you see that yeah and

  and you know it

  we have no proof yet that anything

  accurate has been linked know it was

  somebody asked like the CEO of foxconn

  something about Apple's TV and all all

  he said was just this is like and

  responsive look we do whatever we can

  with apple and if they get into TV I'm

  sure we'll be successful we'll do

  whatever we can to help and somehow that

  came out as Foxconn CEO confirms apples

  making TV sets

  yeah whereas you know he really just

  gave like an we're happy to work with

  them and whatever no detail

  no comment answer and it just got

  completely blown out of proportion and

  is a couple people have pointed out can

  you imagine it

  how stupid it would be for the foxconn

  CEO to actually blab about forthcoming

  apple products right like the man is

  obviously not stupid

  unlike lasers Diaz is that is that Tim

  Cook in that image is that Chapman its

  image there's an image of a ninja now

  that's jobs that's jobs

  ok because look at the glass can't tell

  ya I can't they probably used in the

  present Tim Tim was classes too but the

  yeah but that the the nose pieces that

  yeah okay and then number ten get this

  is really my favorite is the user

  interface details and they cite the the

  rich Corinthian leather of ical and find

  my family friends

  i think is which which were shipped when

  your shift while Steve Jobs was alive

  and CEO right and as I've written I've

  at least alluded to I mean and I i think

  i actually talked about it on the talk

  shows and more explicitly that i wrote

  about it on daring fireball but it those

  that that art direction came from steve

  jobs like it was deep jobs who brought

  in swatches of whether from like I think

  a briefcase and said I guys they were

  working on it and they said they want

  this to be leather and he kept coming

  back and saying no no that's not the

  right type of leather this is all wrong

  he brought in like a briefcase and

  showed it to the designers and it was

  like this is the type of leather and I

  want the stitching to look like this

  that that's what they're modeled after

  like he micro managed for better or for

  worse his taste is was outstanding

  probably the best taste of anybody on on

  the planet over all right it was not in

  peccable but not not in this particular

  instance like the example that Hayes's

  Diaz picked could not be a better

  example I think honestly of the way that

  if anything apples design might get

  better post steve jobs that without

  steve jobs without that one person who

  can get his way no matter what

  nobody's blind spots and taste are going

  to actually shipped to the public

  whereas you know with leave it to just

  the talented designers collectively

  they're going to settle in on you know

  that the exceptional bad designs are not

  going to come out just because Steve

  like them i don't know what I don't know

  what motivates someone to write this

  list I mean other than the obvious one

  last time thinking that that's okay to

  do that is just that's really bad really

  bad just so tasteless it's really is it

  really is it's in it and it's like I

  don't know to me it's like the most

  offensive form of tastelessness because

  it's just so cheesy

  it's not even like really tasteless it's

  not like

  delving into the man's personal finances

  are you know other aspects of his life

  like a gossip magazine like real CD

  stuff like which in some sense is

  morally worse but I almost feel like

  this is more offensive because it's so

  stupid i guess the stupidity that really

  offends me last thing i want to talk

  about going to talk about WWDC

  speculation I I made up a thing yes i

  totally made it up and this goes back to

  the earlier thing that we're talking

  about rumor sites where i find it way

  more fun to find things that I don't

  really know anything about that nobody's

  told me anything I don't have any little

  birdies but just just make guesses about

  what Apple might be doing and like you

  said with the the WTC schedule came out

  and there are an awful lot there's

  somebody I think somebody count them up

  and it's 43 sessions on the schedule are

  to be announced and the thing that

  really caught my eye is that an awful

  lot of the to be announced sessions are

  in the biggest room in the building

  which in my memory it--and I wish it's

  one of those things where i wish i had

  been collecting it like i do claim

  charter for years and years is looking

  at all WWDC preliminary schedules the

  big room upstairs called presidio which

  is effectively it's the keynote room

  which in my memory

  I you know it does have to be announced

  sessions for big new technology things

  that are coming out but never like full

  day's worth of to be announced sessions

  where is this year at WTC tuesday

  afternoon is all in presidio all to be

  announced all day wednesday all day

  Thursday to be announced

  I think all day Wednesday and Thursday

  there's one session at like 515 in that

  room that's on the schedule with the

  title and those five o'clock sessions

  are like very ghost towns so my guess is

  my guess from yesterday and people read

  daring fireball ensure seen it

  my guess is that the only thing that

  would be big enough to warrant all of

  those things it would be a new platform

  that if it's just like a tweak if all

  they have to announce our tweaks to the

  existing platforms let's just say

  hypothetically if they announced a 7

  inch iPad

  or they announce a bigger if they just

  pre-announced a bigger iphone or even if

  they announce something like a bigger

  ipad a big 12 inch iPad or 15 inch iPad

  there's work for developers to be done

  to support the new sizes

  I'm not taking anything you know trying

  to say that it's easy for developers to

  do that and that these sort of many

  forms of fragmentation aren't

  complicated i'm sure that there would be

  sessions at WCC to tell developers the

  best way to do this and that and how to

  do that but it certainly wouldn't

  require two and a half days worth of

  sessions in the big room like even when

  the i pad first shipped they actually

  got developers to write ipad apps before

  WWDC they announced it in like at the

  end of februari and they said and you

  know we're going to put the beta sdk up

  right now and then in April when it

  launches the app store will open for it

  so like they gave developers five weeks

  and just a website and it was you know

  because it was mostly just like riding

  big iphone apps doesn't take two and a

  half days of sessions for something like

  that right so my idea is apps for a new

  platform like maybe say TV

  yeah and this is something that we kind

  of been looking for for a while I mean

  it seems like people have been talking

  about this but bond and off and not

  really focusing on it too heavily for

  them in the recent past but yeah it just

  seems like the another another shoe that

  it's been waiting to drop what one set

  in my article though is that it i think

  that if I'm right I would I think it

  would also require them to announce a

  major new Apple TV and I know that they

  just released this one like eight months

  ago or something like that but it's

  really just a minor tweak on the appletv

  one it just added or did they just

  released this 14 months ago when the

  ipad came out

  yeah that's what yeah i'm just a couple

  months ago so maybe but maybe it's a

  software update maybe they could do i

  think that the main thing I think that

  apps for appletv would need and this is

  ignoring the whole issue of whether

  Apple would have to make the whole TV

  set or whatever i'm saying if they can

  make it into apps for the apple TV is we


  at $99 thing you plug into your existing

  TV I I just feel like the first thing it

  needs is it needs a better remote


  yeah and it maybe it doesn't need more

  buttons on the remote maybe you can

  still just be up down left right play

  pause and menu but it's gotta be like

  bluetooth for instead of ir because I

  are did the line-of-sight thing just

  kills me and it's too much latency

  because I surely part of it would have

  to be games right I just yeah but you

  have to have to be and there's been a

  lot of people don't seem very receptive

  to the idea of using the iphone or an

  ipod touch as a game controller and I

  don't know I not so sure about that

  I wonder if there isn't a way to make

  that work that could be it

  and I know that that's a popular that

  definitely a popular theory and you know


  do you use the remote mic into more

  appletv yeah and which remote do you

  usually used to use the actual iri

  usually i usually use the ir remote on

  because you know if it's if it's sitting

  there because i can just grab it and

  start using it whereas with one of my

  iphone i gotta get it on my pocket I

  gotta find negative unlock my iphone i

  gotta find the app and it's usually just

  faster to use the but that but it is

  like you said before the IRS a pain in

  the ass because if I'm sitting too far

  or if i'm sitting at the wrong angle a

  lot of times just won't work or is it up

  and have to lean forward at work

  yeah and there's a coffee table problem

  i talked about this last week on the

  show with Adam least we have that I i

  slouch when I have a coffee table in

  front of the couch and you gotta like

  raise it up and find an angle Adam uses

  the the app more than the actual remote

  he loves the remote app i do like the

  remote app but I find that I only take

  it i go through that like you just said

  the whole take it out of my pocket and

  yeah it and get the remote app i only do

  that when I have to type type something

  it's the it's oh yeah yeah that's

  obviously obviously worth it if I don't

  get to what I want by just going up to

  left right middle button i do that using

  the regular remote but if I have to type

  anything then I go then it's worth it to

  get into the pocket take out the phone

  in and find the remote app and open it

  up and do it and then once i have it out

  and I've done that I might keep using

  the iphone app but it never gets into my

  thing on that is I just can't see how

  they can sell at $99 device that assumes

  that you have a hundred ninety nine

  dollar remote control

  yeah I think they would have to be some

  other right and maybe they sell some

  sort of dummy device or ship a dummy

  device with the right with the unit that

  doesn't act as an ipod doesn't act as a

  as a phone but it's just a just a remote

  right there's something in here that I

  don't see there's like a dot dot

  yeah step in the middle that I don't see

  but are there other things than the

  iphone that they announced well in

  advanced in advance of when it would

  actually be shipping i'm trying to think

  of other examples of that I mean no they

  certainly do that obviously with

  operating system releases but Mr other

  hardware new platforms like that they've

  announced well in advance

  I don't know the appletv the apple TV

  itself actually what now I think about

  they did it they did announce that early

  i'm just wondering if there if you know

  that the actual apple you know the

  television or whatever this potential

  new platform isn't coming until the fall

  shopping season but they're announcing

  it early so developers get time to to

  work on you know I wouldn't be surprised

  if they did that because it's it's a

  thing where yeah maybe it would dry up

  its sales of existing Apple TVs but i

  did that's not a big enough part of

  apples that still infamously

  self-described as a hobby

  yeah so I don't feel like they would be

  they would have if they felt like it

  made sense they wouldn't hesitate to

  forgo that hobbyist revenue which is

  just like a rounding error overall for

  them right the moment for a couple of

  months if they thought it was going to

  be a blockbuster holiday item

  yeah yeah I really don't know what to

  expect with that if I'm right I don't

  know like is it going to be a thing

  where hey we've got this great new

  app platform and os for the TV and I

  just skip the fact of whether it

  involves apple-branded TVs or devices

  you hook up to an existing TV or both

  but I just I just can't help but think

  it's going to require a new some kind of

  new purchase but on the other hand it

  seems a little ridiculous that they

  would start selling this Apple TV in

  April clothes and then three months

  later say well that thing doesn't get

  the apps so maybe the apps will just be

  for the existing TV and the existing

  remote control and all you get is up

  down left right but if that's the case

  iced I don't see them even though it

  might be a big deal i don't see how its

  days and days worth of developer

  sessions at WWDC like to me i'm thinking

  like if it's if it's lots and lots of

  juicy developer info it's got to be

  stuff like a gaming type quality of

  experience that it's not just about

  making an app that shows your videos you

  know here's how you make an app that

  shows a list of videos for for your


  yeah you know so that MSNBC could have

  an app that's like the wall street

  journal app that built into apple TV

  today and if it's for those big media

  providers anyway it doesn't even make a

  lot of sense to have huge sessions at

  WWDC like I think it's got to be more

  than just how to show a list of videos

  and punch one and then have the manual

  play it's got you know if it's actually

  if I'm right that it's developer content

  it's got to be about games and and you

  know any kind of creative stuff that you

  might come up with you might want to run

  on your TV

  they're already plenty of games that use

  the iPad as a sort of a TV and use the

  iphone or ipod touch as a controller

  yeah there's definitely some cool games

  that use airplay haha from the phone or

  iPad to transmit to the TV so you can

  watch it on TV so maybe it's just the

  next generation of that but if you would

  assume that i don't know maybe there

  would be some cool stuff you can do with

  having two people who play party games

  anymore I mean but if you could assume

  that everybody has an iphone and you can

  have this app running on your TV you

  might be able to do some really fun

  stuff for like a group of three or four

  people if everybody had an iphone that

  you've seen you seen the new controllers

  for the the wii u right

  no i don't think i have they're

  basically I mean it's basically the

  controls the existing controls on a wii

  controller but there's a screen in the

  middle so it so I has a larger yeah so

  it's a larger controller and then that

  the thing that you have added is this is

  this basically had no ipod touch iphone

  size screen right that gives you other

  information on you know you're for you

  personally as opposed to the other

  players when does that supposed to show

  time in the fall sometime in the fall

  sometimes feel like and I a a you're

  probably I think everybody would agree i

  feel like if Apple is doing this that it

  is way bigger threat it's a way bigger

  threat to nintendo then to ya

  PlayStation and Xbox where they're not

  really coming in on those super graphic

  heavy playstation / xbox games that that

  I think of as those type of you know the

  type of games that it's the first person

  shooter and what's the word winsy right

  because that's what Nintendo does so

  well is is stuff that's not technically

  I mean the wii it's so crazy because the

  weed today still doesn't I'm not they

  can upgrade it but there-there consult

  doesn't do HD right and yet my kid is

  obsessed with these games i can play

  that he'll play zelda and we've for you

  know as long as well let them so it's

  not technical

  wow it's that it's the you know the

  whimsy that Nintendo yada Ya Ya Ya will

  be interesting and you're going to be

  there i will be there you gonna be there

  gonna be there for a couple days i tell

  people about the thing maybe I should

  tell people about the thing if you feel

  up to it and tell people go ahead and

  just tell you if you're going to be a WC

  if you're going to be in san francisco

  during the week

  WWDC keep your schedule open tuesday

  afternoon we'll see

  stay tuned stay tuned to the talkshow

  stop by and give your one-star reviews