The Talk Show

2: Dare I Say, Kubrick?, with Adam Lisagor


  big upset last night right wait on me

  what the hand big win last night right

  what who the yanks yea big win

  yeah did you hear about Jeter the season

  ii he's turning 37 and he's still

  killing it and yeah he is batting

  average what with 341 batting average he

  kidding me that's currently the

  ninth-best average this season job for

  pretty good case I mean my god i just

  put myself to sleep i mean i like the

  way that you you predicted the homework

  you needed to do before appearing on the

  show it

  yeah as I asked JP who works with me i

  asked the the right-hand man JP to give

  me some baseball my period that actually

  was pretty good

  ok good so now we're done with that

  we're down with that everybody can come


  what's new with you nothing that's love


  yeah all right well then I'm sure we can

  find something to talk about

  it's been really slow week but a good

  slow week right LOL not at all stressful

  a little stressful controversy pre very

  quiet on on the Twitter to it must be a

  nightmare could keep up with your

  Twitter your Twitter conversation your

  stream do you even bother now usually do

  you get the toe or do you just obsessed

  you do you do you dive right in and

  spend six hours usually doesn't take six

  hours but sometimes the heads

  yeah are responsive have you been to

  this last this last round of carefully

  I've been as I think a lot of people

  have observed utterly unresponsive

  whoo-hoo well I mean but in bye-bye

  design our depth definitely but pop

  probably slightly by mistake I talk to


  well I last week's show I very

  deliberate and I just didn't want to put

  gold multi on the spot and I felt like

  that was a lot to ask to sort of face

  the unpleasantness and it and address it

  so we didn't completely ignored there is

  a little bit of banter at the beginning

  about being new at this and doing things

  differently but for the most part we

  just pretended like the the great

  unpleasantness wasn't there and that was

  my idea and I just didn't want to put

  notes on the spot and you know and then

  I thought you know what that's not right

  though in a way I think it I think it

  ended up playing very poorly because my

  take on his I i'm not going to explain

  everything but I whatever i am going to

  explain is going to be completely honest

  and I in a sense ignoring that elephant

  in the room is a form of dishonesty

  so then I thought to myself well who can

  I put on the spot and make extremely

  uncomfortable believe i am doing the

  thing with my shirt collar right now

  exactly and I don't of course I thought

  of you and no one else i don't i don't

  mind at all

  let's have it out let's let's come to

  some-some epiphanies let's cry a little

  we can just or not you know you can just

  you can come clean or it and if you want

  to you can just air grievances if there

  are no I wouldn't do that Donaire

  grievances I picked up a new hobby

  recently what's that drinking I just

  can't tell you how if you already

  ok alright in preparation because he

  knew you were going to be as to

  unleashing some stuff some good i said

  you know i will tell you i will tell you

  the truth the truth is but in that

  regard I I we're recording Harris is a

  wednesday the 23rd as we record 2 p.m.

  my time East Coast 11am your your time

  west coast and 15 minutes ago in mice

  copious show prep wanted to get a big

  glass of of water and

  was thinking now about what we're going

  to say what we're going to talk about

  and I got halfway through making a

  martini I actually filled the shaker

  with ice right i should say halfway but

  I feel the shaker with ice and before I

  realize what I was doing a given problem

  i don't know why but you know we can do

  we can talk about it we shall we should

  talk about it we should remember that I

  don't mean to make jokes and be joking

  and try to be funny but ok I think

  there's some things to talk about their

  right and I'd feel like you know you

  can't the show can't go on by pretending

  that it didn't happen right

  alright so now that it's it's it's a new

  it's a new venture it's a new show that

  what is the idea are you going to have

  is it going to be you on Mike with a

  different co-host for every episode or

  do you have you planned that far in

  advance hit you know I haven't planned

  that far in advance

  obviously it's not going to be John

  Smoltz every week I so I don't know for

  now my my idea is I have a whole list of

  people who i would like to have on just

  with me I haven't asked all of them and

  I've had some of them but it's at least

  in a couple of weeks of chock-full of

  brand-new people who I could sit here

  and talk to for an hour

  yeah absolutely and I'm going to be

  great i have not asked him yet

  this is the first the public but just as

  an idea haven't asked him I hope he says

  yes I think it could be great terrific

  fun would be me and paul thurrott oh I

  don't know pull the THU rotc t is often

  mentioned on Darren parable you don't

  know where you never heard of and daring

  fireball this is this is TV show

  whoops no hay fall I'm just kidding see

  this is get this is this is fun because

  this is going to be largely I think you

  took teaching me about things that I

  should know as a guest on your show

  you'll be mentioning names and products

  and things and over and they'll just

  completely over my head but i'll pretend

  i know now I I should just pretend that


  what you're talking about now that's

  Paul Paul would be great

  you and Paul would have a other great

  dynamic um you know I would like this to

  hear on on the show I was I would love

  to hear suggestions i was i think that

  you and lob would be great i'll already

  on the list go good at Michael op of of

  Rands and repose fit came you know but

  the common thread of the show is that

  you are on every episode correct i guess

  so consistent a hundred I yeah i believe

  so very good so it's just it's group its

  Gruber yeah and and future of bold all

  caps widely spaced right all right so

  it's the Great's the groomer show there

  it's just Gruber would you call your

  show Gruber in theory yeah I feel like a

  lot of people just know us group like

  dearie Gruber it's not even daring

  fireball honest so it's so did you read

  you see what was on gruber not bad did

  you did you google this week

  oh yeah I'm Gregory was talking about

  grouping it might be that might add that

  in theory i guide that that's not a that

  doesn't strike me as a bad idea right

  off the top of the head

  I my only thing about that is i'm not

  sure though that it would that people

  are already saying that about what I do

  a daring fireball but what do you mean

  like to well that when people people

  might say like if if you work in an

  office doing the sort of things where

  it's possible that multiple people you

  work with three daring fireball like

  maybe you make iOS apps or websites or

  something like that that somebody when

  they're referencing something on daring

  fireball might just say exactly what you

  said hey Yuri Gruber today right

  notice we can say and if this but if a

  show is called Gruber it would be

  ambiguous whether it was the show or

  daring fireball would it and as I don't

  think i don't know i think it's a pretty

  strong brand but was your idea you asked

  an email you had an idea for a possible

  show title

  oh yeah no I i suggest well just as an

  example but bad

  when I suggested I think picking boogers

  with John right and you said that even

  that would be successful

  yea even that because you know well what

  is the talk show it say about that

  I always wanted to be honest when and

  the talkshow had a I've told you this

  before i had a big impact on me from the

  very beginning

  stylistically influenced the way I

  wanted you know you look nice today

  sound and I just thought it was a

  beautifully babe you know beautifully

  devised podcast was on it unlike

  anything but what but I I thought to

  myself at the time why the hell is it

  called the time I mean yeah it's

  beautifully simple and everything like

  that but what may be a little bit more

  specificity or maybe a little bit more

  of a of an anchor and you know I feel

  like now with this isn't with this

  opportunity what you why not do a little

  bit of a rethink on it

  well that's one way I could have gone i

  might take those that i came up with the

  name I art-directed the great Greg story

  of airbag industries Fame now now at

  happy cog for the original branding and

  visual design of everything from the

  original run right there's two runs of

  the talk show this is effectively were

  this is talk-show 344 as Apple would

  call the new talk show haha that the

  first run

  we'll just talk show because they don't

  put the anything right busy that's the

  opposite with the talk show where I

  always want that i paid extra money for

  the okay with it but it was worth it

  so the first one was me and dan from I

  believe summer I could be wrong by a

  year here summer of two thousand seven

  through the end of 2008 no network i

  always had the idea of of trying to make

  it into a some sort of money making

  thing getting some sponsors and i think

  i actually don't even remember specific

  i think occasionally we found a sponsor

  or two but it was it was sort of like


  light fire with wet matches just never

  took off and ultimately I think that's

  sort of what led to the demise of the

  show where it went from being pretty

  consistently weekly to a couple of times

  a month and then very very quickly after

  you after you lose that regular

  scheduled very quickly spotted out to

  all of a sudden there's two months

  between episodes and and it was done

  oh yeah I and you know that you know

  very well it is very very hard to to

  keep that going

  yeah it's like work it's like it's like

  it's like exercises like once when she

  stopped it just feels so much better not

  to do it right do you find that you guys

  have have have reinvigorated you guys

  never you guys are like a band that

  never broke up but there was sort of a

  hiatus with you look nice today but you

  guys have have come back i believe

  starting three months ago ya think we've

  put out three episodes now and you've

  got a new schedule where it's going to

  be on the second of every month

  let's try dropping it on the deuce it's

  just about managing expectations though

  but it was as if that was a simpson ism

  of course all right is that the bed is

  that why you picked the second of the

  market third they don't have I don't

  think so I don't think so it's just so

  it just means you know being on a call

  recording like we do and then everybody

  sipping a little bit of something and

  then and then Merlin says we should put

  it out on the second of every month and

  and Scott goes yeah the deuce the deuce

  would drop it on the deuce

  what are you going to do in February

  when there is no second of the month

  well you speak are you talking crazy

  right now doesn't that pepperoni has one


  for a second i had it is like I had to

  go back through my elementary school

  education and think about whether you're

  correct except in leap years in leap

  years yet accepted except in would be

  leap years that fall on the Millennium

  in which case you start on februari

  third right so socially we only do 11

  per year right you worry about that when

  you come to yeah that's like that's like

  four years away right

  what did you do the monthly thing is you

  think it's gonna work out i think it


  it's hard though it is alright well you

  know to do anything

  well you got to do with 10,000 times and

  we're not even close

  so if you you know but I everybody but i

  find this in my own my own work my

  professional thing if i'm doing if i get

  to do like let's say four projects in a

  month than by the fourth 1 i'm cooking

  with cooking with gas as they say but if

  then I you know and I go with a month in

  between to the next one that I'm just

  like I'm trying I'm having to relearn

  everything and why don't my muscles in

  the podcast thing or not that strong to

  begin with I feel like Merlin Scoggins

  pick it up and and run but mine my voice

  gets weak very very quickly

  yeah so it would suit the show better if

  we could actually find a way to to

  record on a weekly basis but my nerves

  just can't handle it but how can i have

  some sort of schedule though is


  I really do yeah i mean i don't i mean

  maybe there's some sure there's always

  an exception and there's somebody out

  there with a popular and long-running

  podcast with a very inconsistent

  schedule but I I could never do that

  you got a minute gotta be pretty regular

  whether you're going to say weekly or

  bi-weekly or monthly or something so do

  you do you get nerves when you're

  getting on my queen you when you hit

  recording go do you feel like that d

  Philip tremendous amount of pressure to

  record and an hour to two hours of like

  quality material

  yes definitely and without question

  much more so all of a sudden

  hey well it's now it's more your thing

  right a little bit right well writer you

  could consider yourself the the host

  rather than the co-host right and the

  whole thing is my responsibility

  there's no I can absolutely feel the

  pressure yeah well I feel the pressure

  every day when i write on daring

  fireball I mean it's you know it i can't

  quite say I mean I often try to think

  about it this way and it freaked me out

  but if I thought that all the people who

  read daring fireball they were in an

  arena and the truth is at this point it

  would actually take some sort of arena

  sized facility to fit them all in there

  at once on one day and it doesn't really

  feel like that because you know i'm

  actually in like the same office i'm

  using the same keyboard and actually

  even the same monitor from when i

  launched the thing and like was excited

  and nervous and palms sweaty the first

  day that I had over a hundred page views

  like so the interface that I see while

  posting looks exactly the same so like

  if you're in a band and you start

  playing in a bar to a hundred people and

  that's kind of cool and then you grow

  and you're successful and successful

  when you start playing bigger and bigger

  venues you see it and it's palpable and

  everything he not just you know you hear

  the audience and it's louder and the

  acoustics are different you have a

  successful website that you're right it

  just looks exactly the same as the

  audience grows so that definitely keeps

  the nerves down a little bit but yeah

  but I realized like I fully realized

  that if I were to something I've never

  done but if i were to say take a week

  off and do like what cocky doesn't just

  turn the keys over to somebody

  mom I think you in fact were the first

  person he ever did that with i wasn't i

  was the second you were the second yeah

  I i actually like I applied to be the

  first one and and he skipped over me it

  and pick somebody else and then you know

  and I was pretty crushed about it but

  whatever it was it was it was a long

  tango and I forgive and then you know

  few weeks maybe a couple months later

  actually he he went on vacation again


  but me and said hey how would you like

  another chance and now I felt great i

  took a week off of work to do it but

  that was probably super nerve-wracking

  for you

  oh my god it was the most stressful

  thing I've ever done in my life up to

  that point for sure what to do too

  because his audience is revered yeah i

  mean i mean is his audiences Reverend

  that they Revere of cocky and and so to

  to be handed those keys

  you know it's a big big set of keys

  right Jan one giant novelty key right

  and it's a compare and contrast with

  another big like a site like boy which

  probably adds more readers than then

  daring fireball and combined wire

  ah is always it always has been a

  collaborative blog with no singular

  voice right and all and in fact almost

  deliberately a sort of widely varying

  voices of the various contributors and

  editors so if somebody i I've still be

  nerve-wracking and nervous too right

  before a large audience but you feel

  like you know you're not eat i think

  would be easier because you could just

  be yourself and boiling readers are used

  to New byline showing up sugar varying

  styles whereas you step step up to the

  mic aqui dot org and you're supposed to

  be writing and sounding and appealing to

  the exact same you right there's one

  single spotlight on you and if you put

  if you're writing for boy and then

  you're in a kind of a bizarre

  environment like with which is brightly

  lit and people are shouting from all

  direction right

  are you nervous to appear here on the

  show with me almost definitely no more

  nervous because it's like high-profile

  because this is episode two of the the

  reboot could be you know i don't i know

  i'm i think I'm more nervous than you

  know I which is unusual and I you like

  the next time you'll be back right

  you'll be back next time

  next I hope so it goes well I'll be back

  we did I I mean I i I'm I'm friends with

  dan and I na and I respect him and what

  he's created everything and and um I'm

  sad that you know the

  for how things have developed but I'm

  good friends with you and I really have

  always enjoyed conversation with you

  it's just something that's a part of you

  know it's on the list of one of the best

  things of that i have in my life so that

  that opportunity I would not pass that

  up for any reason

  um which is I I i suspect why your show

  will continue to thrive because you're

  interesting you're good at conversation


  I really like listening to and it i

  really like you

  your thoughts i think a lot of people do

  a lot of people just read you and listen

  to you because you're thoughtful about

  things and so putting a really

  thoughtful person in conversation with

  with anybody who he feels like talking

  to is going to be entertainment and

  entertaining um hopefully so why mean

  like did you did you feel any need to

  reconfigure the format at all in the new

  in the new venture

  well I think obviously some of that is

  inevitable because you know Dan's on-air

  job was definitely to organize the

  structure of the show I to keep things

  moving to pick spots to jump in with

  sponsor reads and he asked me far more

  questions than I asked him right so

  obviously it has to change

  you know one of the things that I want

  people to know when they come on the

  show you know I know my description of

  and I think it always has been in and

  you know from the outset is that in some

  sense it's still largely the the

  equivalent of the directors commentary

  on daring fireball it works yay let's

  talk about all that stuff but if you

  want you have more questions about the

  the show moving

  I mean your own your question was but

  you and I feel like we should talk

  because I feel like this is the

  controversy the controversy is why did I

  take the show in the name right right

  that's what you wanted

  you want to be nice about it and you

  don't want to you don't want to put your

  finger on the scab

  no because you hang up on me now I want

  I you know and Karen and in terms of my

  ability as a host here's the the most

  helpful review on iTunes of of the talk

  show this talk show unfocused

  uninteresting and unlistenable one star

  by the number number number it's sort of

  like the guy from his podcast sucks

  humbert humbert how you like it cousin

  from from lolita yeah I'm sure you

  listen off this is very different from

  the pop talk show of the past which

  always had an Benjamin serving to keep

  the podcast focused people didn't tune

  in just to listen to john gruber ramble

  about a million unrelated topics they

  turned into listen to a podcast that had

  at least some semblance of order the

  talk show with Dan Benjamin was already

  one of the less focus podcasts on five

  by five or download prepare list of

  topics and show notes beforehand and

  Gruber just showed up on a bad

  connection and mumbled his comments to

  some of the topics while clearing his

  throat or snorting dampen or Dan

  Benjamin was half of the talk show since

  its inception and the new show has an

  entirely different dynamic the new show

  is John Gruber unhinged John Gruber

  talking to himself jumping from

  unrelated topic to topic it is unfocused

  to the hilt and embarrassing to listen

  to so yeah I guess you're right banning

  people i think people do think i'm doing

  a good job

  well you know there's that means you're

  doing something right if you give you

  get someone stars on there and you know

  what who needs him who need them you

  know why I was curious about like after

  the first show came out last week I did

  a little you know mention search on

  Twitter and my favorite one that i came

  across was from I think like a teenage

  british kid and he just said ruber your

  new show is bad and you should feel bad

  i should have read that when I would

  have taken less time it's pretty good i

  will tell you what everybody out there i

  encourage you to be honest I

  I'm not afraid of honesty so be honest

  get on itunes leave an honest review and

  i'll read next week i'll read a few more

  of the highest-ranked whether they

  called most helpful

  most helpful reviews on itunes of let's

  imagine that it's a good segment um my

  favorite like this line from last week's

  episode was when you guys were talking

  about the mat connection lady you would

  describe as you're describing how they

  might have arranged the picture and and

  your voice you gave voice for the team

  and they end your voice was just a Sally

  mind if we take a picture but it was

  very letter many of Letterman of you you

  know what and adds an important thing

  I'm so glad you mentioned that because

  this is an absolutely i mean it just

  shows I quite frankly just how poorly

  i'm doing with this new show is is that

  we made a grievous error was not mad

  connection it was Mac warehouse

  well same diff I you want the the

  instant messenger at the moment I'm not

  can can you be

  is it easy yes sure i will send you I

  have the picture you remember this

  picture I I don't know and it's hard to

  tell because you're pretty young

  oh no I I definitely like my dad

  subscribe to those catalogs and and I

  definitely poured through them right

  did you see email it to me now but I

  want maybe if you do Mac warehouse cover

  babe idea and I I'm knot no it didn't

  show up

  damn it i just want to give you this you

  are out on flickr that's just the name

  of the the flickr page i did I wasn't

  calling her babe

  alright how about Mac warehouse cover

  lady see if that works

  google it I'll email it to you I don't

  remember to gotten there by now you have

  email on this computer

  all right they do right on

  alright check your email and there she

  is all my god I always pictured her name

  is like danica or something that she's

  very Swedish looking right center but

  it's exactly like molten I talked about

  there's something about her with it

  maybe it's clipart maybe she was a model

  brought in to pose for the picture and

  maybe she really was answering the phone

  and they were like you will take a

  picture of you

  I think that she probably worked there

  that I don't think they have the

  sophistication to come in because you

  can see there's there's obviously like a


  yeah what is what OS is that system 6 or

  something on now but that photoshop

  wouldn't have been able to do that now

  that is far too sophisticated with it

  she's and she's very attractive but has

  thin lips like her the earth their lips

  are too thin to be a model right and

  she's got like those nineties eyebrows

  peeking through the church bangs that

  she's she's so 1989 it is unbelievable i

  love it i would go to homecoming with

  her I really can't believe that I like

  Miss conflated Mac warehouse with matt

  connection that's why I'm a connection

  was inferior they didn't have the the

  lady since they have a lady now you know

  what I would love to have her on the

  talk show that would be a big get if you

  could find out who she is

  yeah that would be fantastic anybody out

  there listening can find out who she is

  and I mean I don't know that we could do

  a whole hour but maybe we could but we

  could certainly do a good segment I'm

  going to say she's like maybe 26 in this

  picture so which would which would make

  her you know in a little late forties by

  now right

  I would say so great so what what things

  you want to talk about other than other

  than I mean like is there anything is

  there any apple so if you want to talk

  about definitely maybe I should do

  maybe I should do the first sponsor read

  that before


  and you you should give me some some

  pointers on this because I this is one

  of those things without question that

  damn Benjamin did better than I do the

  sponsor Prince mandan was good at like

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  bare-bones dot-com huh

  mmm i'd say i'd say maybe you know if if

  I was if I was your client i would say

  just you know put a little more heart

  into it just like a little more back you

  know just to let it breathe a little bit

  you're saying I should have it up a

  little bit

  dammit alright I'm marginally sound not

  supposed to sound like John Gruber being

  his droll usual self talking

  extemporaneous Lee no I'm going to

  longer reason I shall I should have it

  up a little bit but we want to believe

  that you believe what you're saying and

  I know you do because you wouldn't you

  wouldn't take sponsorships that you

  didn't think we're cool right

  ok well i think about it better work out

  it got to do it i gotta get 10,000 of

  practice in front of the mirror right

  trail is right let's get the the

  talkshow meta discussion out-of-the-way

  long story short it was a business

  disagreement long-standing and


  dan the co-host is obviously very

  popular and extremely talented is

  extremely good at what he does and I'm

  super proud of the work we did together

  and I think we had some lots of good

  shows in some some great shows

  dan the owner of a podcast network i

  have long-standing disagreements with

  came to an end

  why did I take the talk show with me

  because I love it and I felt like if I

  felt like my choices were reduced to i

  dunno show I go elsewhere do a new show

  go elsewhere and do the talk show

  I didn't want to do know show and I felt

  if I went elsewhere and did a new show i

  would be leaving my beloved talk show

  behind at five by five and I don't think

  Dan would have kept doing the talk show

  with without me but that's where it

  would have SAT dormant and I just

  couldn't bear it right well you could

  well first of all yet that business bad

  business comes between and i don't mean

  bad as in nefarious but disagreements in

  business come between good friends all

  the time and it sucks when it happens

  but it's it's a legitimate legitimate

  reason and then you there there could

  have been measures put in place to you

  know 2222 agree that if the talk shows

  left behind then then it's then it then

  it you know ceases to be so I don't

  think they're there would have been a

  worry of then taking it over and

  exploiting the name now my worry wasn't

  better be taken over and Exploited my

  worry was

  this to see something that i view as my

  second most beloved child creation left

  in what is considered a bad spot right

  right well do so so that you you I I

  understand it's interesting that you put

  in if you frame it like that as a as a

  birth as a child but i honestly think

  that you gave birth to something other

  than something big

  other than just what it was called um

  and I think you you don't you definitely

  did you you made it you made a big

  statement by taking the name with you

  and and that that statement has been

  made and and now it's it's it's yours

  it's like you it you can do what you

  want with it including renaming it now I

  don't want I mean like you know you've

  said you've said repeatedly I'll think

  about it like that's food for thought

  and i think i have a feeling that you're

  gonna you're gonna you're gonna keep

  doing exactly what you're doing which is

  that which is absolutely also that's

  what you should do but I but I'm

  speaking for myself as a fan when I say

  what you've created is going to live on

  no matter what it's called

  even if it's called pickin boogers with

  John which I think it should be still

  your baby 1 star I mac stuff that's

  talking about the big week i think was

  about two weeks ago a little bit less

  than two weeks ago I wrote a thing about

  that called ios6 low-hanging fruit

  trying to predict what Apple might be

  doing next in an iOS right and I here

  being that that that the phone could

  seem to the casual observer to be

  feature complete very very close to it

  well that it used to be the first few

  years they that it was kind of easy to

  make predictions about what they would

  do next because there were some glaring

  omissions and one

  and I want to talk about this with you

  is that one of the first times I can

  recall on seeing something that you had

  done online was back and I think with

  2008 it was early definitely when you

  did a you did a concept video on how

  copy and paste might work on the iphone

  right which is interesting in a few ways

  because one that whole hate let me just

  show you here's my UI idea and i'm going

  to put a concept video on YouTube or

  Vimeo or one of these things you early

  on that that was like a new thing at the

  time and number two

  eventually they did ad copy and paste

  and yours was kind of a sensation got

  picked up everywhere everybody I'm

  bukkake linked it i'm sure i don't can

  hope I like to know now and we've never

  talked about this huh

  now you know it killed me it killed me

  that you did what you did was he wrote a

  piece the next day he wrote a piece on

  daring fireball about why you didn't

  think that apple would put copy and

  pasting in the iOS in will in like

  anytime soon and and 44 like front for a

  week without knowing you for a week I

  just hated you but I kept reading and

  then we and eventually we got we got we

  were at each other and got to be friends

  when did they add when did they end up

  adding copy and paste it wasn't until

  the second version of the OS right so it

  was 2008 well the phone came out 2007

  that's when I made the video i think in

  like december something again you know I

  might have been another year it were

  when with when did they release the next

  the next phone I June June of 2008 so

  might have been June I'm but ya mind

  mind mind was an interesting idea with

  two finger taps but it you know they

  didn't they didn't end up doing that but

  um well it's funny how you like your

  your your video I i love the idea but I

  feel like your idea and i'll link to it

  in the show notes people can go and

  watch your original concept video which

  was also

  very funny thank you and it's only funny

  are in hindsight as your online persona

  has become more established and and

  widely known like at the time it is very

  consistent with the atom Lisa right now

  but at the time I didn't know Adam Lisa

  gore and I'm not going to spoil anything

  but the way that it ends so this is it

  just seems so absurd and right yeah

  certain letter yet but that's my dumb

  voice my dummy or voice behind bob bob

  borchers I guess right your idea that

  was largely and I don't it's kinda hard

  to explain but it it was just your base

  mostly it was let's take the loop which

  was already in ios4 placing the

  insertion point and as you're dragging

  that around to figure out where you want

  to start a copy our selection to copy

  and paste you could add a second finger

  to the screen which would put you in a

  different mode right at which point you

  would just drag your finger like a

  highlighter to make the selection and

  and then cut correct yeah and then when

  you wanted to paste you would place the

  insertion point with one finger then

  still holding that first finger on

  screen add a second finger which would

  bring up a little dialog box with your

  last few clipboards and then you could

  tap one of those to paste right so the

  problem with it and a reason Apple went

  with something different is that it's

  not visual right it's something that it

  that you would have to know before yeah

  it's not discoverable at all right here

  and there are things in iOS that are

  like that but they are either always or

  ideally always but if not always almost

  always short cuts to things that there

  is a visual way to do that if you can't

  see it it might as well not be there so

  that's why you know the actual

  implementation of copy and paste is very


  it's this right there in your face

  little pop-up thing that that makes

  these options explicit yeah but

  seriously it was well done

  I'm sorry it is

  thank you you know it's alright it all

  worked out and speaking of highlight

  highlight working like a highlighter

  isn't the highlighter in ibooks just the

  most delightful you I think that exists

  yeah except i invoke it accidentally too

  often i do you really yeah I I don't

  know but it's happening less than less

  so I feel like I'm I'm getting used to


  I haven't figured out how to not

  successfully on the highlight stuff i

  guess so in that way it's very much like

  a real skeuomorphic highlighter do you

  do this

  i-i've i know i've spoken to quit then

  formerly of New York Times and now he

  does Mixel really cool collage

  collaborative ipad app and coins even

  written about it but the New York Times

  added a thing

  a while back it's like a javascript

  thing where as soon as you selected a

  word on a webpage on the new york times

  it would pop up a dictionary definition

  of the word right there

  mhm which is stupid right because it

  breaks something that people know how to

  do so you just double click on a word to

  select it and all of a sudden it was a

  double click not selecting orders like

  if you double click on a word it would

  make a definition will double-click

  already has a meaning it just means i

  want to select this but the reason it

  was especially problematic for me is

  that while I'm reading an article I

  didn't even really know that i had this

  habit but I I just sit there and play

  with the mouse and like select words and

  and make text elections while I'm

  reading just like like an idol fidgety

  thing sure you fondle you found a boy

  does the same thing and said it drove

  him nuts and and he was gonna crack some

  skulls over it

  oh yeah well there have been all sorts

  of bad attempts that giving meaning to

  words that are not links from without

  any other extra hot keys to enable them

  or something and all the double the

  double underline crab advertisers are

  doing or even I think there's this

  company app sure I don't over there

  what's going on with them but they're

  trying to they're trying to enable

  search on top of every single word in a

  in a site or what

  alright so like when I'm reading on the

  iphone or ipad like in safari sometimes

  I'll just move my thumb up and down a

  little bit and just make the page go up

  and down just slightly just like a

  fidgety type thing and I feel like in

  ibooks that's why I sort of with making

  inadvertent highlights is that I would

  just sort of touching my I just wanted

  to touch the screen finally and then all

  of a sudden I've got a highlight but

  when you want to make a highlight i have

  to admit it is delightful really don't

  like his looks really good

  right and that aana somehow they're

  really really good at at this all at the

  the parallax offset of it's not really

  going underneath where you touch its

  underneath where you think you're

  touching right right it's very accurate

  um I I can't believe that it took the

  mac OS so long to make like control

  command D over any word bring up

  dictionary and yes and search every i

  use that constantly it's one of my

  favorite features

  yeah I do too i used to always when i

  was reading paper books always had like

  a personal policy that if I ever

  encountered word that I didn't know I

  would either look it up if there is a

  dictionary handy or write it down and

  then look it up when i got to a

  dictionary you and I wasn't always

  scrupulous about it but it was always

  thought it was a good policy that don't

  just pretend that you know the word if

  you encounter a new word look it up now

  and carry a dictionary in your back

  pocket is a good now I did not know they

  were too big

  yes big pants yeah so what do you have

  any idea what do you think apples going

  to do next long story short there that

  the low-hanging fruit is pretty much

  gone like everybody knew that's the

  thing about the copy and paste from

  2007-2008 in its kind of crazy to think

  back that we had these phones that that

  we loved but they couldn't copy and

  paste text or anything

  yeah it's kind of crazy to think about

  going back to that like oh yeah

  as frustrating as it would be to travel

  back in time pre iphone it would be

  pretty frustrating to travel back to

  even the original iphone maybe like it

  can even copy and paste so what do you

  think is coming next

  i don't i don't know i mean i get you

  obviously you talked about every certain

  mentioning that maps google maps are

  gonna go out of the phone and Apple is

  going to have its own solution and I

  think that it's it might not just be

  like a one-to-one replacement with just

  a new backend of of a mapping service

  and and new interesting delightful Apple

  front end is going to replace this

  google friend that's basically been

  pretty much the same since the first

  iteration right i mean with with little

  accoutrement is added the new you know

  in in navigation on the new google maps

  it's nice to have three options of good

  roots right but other than that it's

  still frustrating to use it's not really

  intuitive think doing things like that

  are sort of user you very you I

  sensitive just for usability like while

  you're actually maybe in a car looking

  at a map and you need to get a list you

  need to get over to listview is like

  three taps yeah um and and I think that

  Apple could I mean I definitely solve

  those types of problems but bo what if

  they just whatever they're just going to

  put a new a new spin on the whole idea

  of mapping that there isn't super

  obvious I mean what if it's is this this

  could be done but I mean well first of

  all they're probably able to integrate

  across all their services like contacts

  and everything a little bit better in

  Thai in mapping and social and I don't

  know but that doesn't that's that's not

  really interesting maybe I mean there's

  I know there's sort of a movement to to

  figure out the problem of to figure out

  the problem of I don't know whether you

  would call it micro mapping or whatever

  like locating things and and inside of a


  I'm just very very much refined your

  location they might have an interesting

  solution to that but no it's not obvious

  to me do you think here's my big

  question with Apple taking

  the map data into their own hands is do

  you think that they are also going to do

  a Maps website

  yeah that is an interesting question in

  my mind first thought my thought is no

  example doesn't do stuff like that but

  if they don't do a website how would you

  email directions to somebody from your

  phone right well you just have to hope

  that their iOS as well um yeah I guess

  it could operate on the Instagram model

  where there's maybe there's just a

  simple a very very simple web version of

  over map but nowhere near as complex as

  google maps all right no yeah i mean

  they don't they don't apple doesn't

  traditionally do stuff like that well

  right but they don't even try really

  yeah i mean when i get it there's like

  there's like locate my you know find my

  iphone and said and the the actual the

  actual the iCloud website is pretty

  robust never spend any time on which you

  wouldn't need to because it it's all the

  the front and front is that is all of

  the apps that are on your Mac but when

  you actually spend some time in the

  browser in and like fish around all this

  giant tabs

  um it's actually quite pretty yeah now I

  don't know I feel like they kind of have

  to but maybe I'm you know thinking about

  around and maybe they were willing to do

  that inhabit so that you know if you're

  going to send directions to somebody

  they better have an iOS device you

  same goes for the iCloud photo and

  video-sharing which 1i know the wall

  street journal reported a bit ago was a

  going to be a major new feature that

  you'll be you'll be able to you know I

  don't worry i think they even explicitly

  compared to compared to flicker or maybe

  even facebook or something where you

  could take your family photos from your

  iphone share them through your iCloud

  account and then the thing that caught

  my eye was that it said to other I cloud

  users because if it's not a website how

  else would they do it let alone whether

  they even you know whether they want to

  draw that sort of privacy circle of

  everybody you're sharing with has to

  have an iCloud account I i think a big

  part of that is the practical point that

  if you don't have an iCloud account how

  would you do it if they don't do it on

  the web

  but on the other hand they do you know

  they've already had things like you know

  the photo albums which were on

  the web on your account

  yeah and did you ever use any of that

  crap i'm not really i mean going back to

  idisk days and all the way through it

  seems like the parent of the kind of

  thing that parents use right but but you

  know we don't use that stuff because

  there's MIT they're way better solutions

  right um so I don't want to see what i

  mean i guess like I'm curious to see

  what apple's next iteration of the

  gallery would be but again they don't do

  social well so how useful could it be

  alright nice just for 121 sharing then

  again it's like this it would be very

  hobbled yeah that's it

  it doesn't feel like they ever really

  did a good job with it i mean i might I

  don't jump on most social network type

  things I mean most of them don't appeal

  to me but when i find 1i like that i

  just use it so for me for sharing photos

  to people who always been flickr just

  because that's why flickr became so

  popular was just seemed like than the

  nice balance between obvious and ease of

  use and easy shareability that you

  didn't you know make things that you

  could share privately which required the

  other people to have I think I flickr

  account and then you know if you didn't

  really care who saw the pictures you can

  just do it and point people at the URL

  and everybody could go see it

  what could it be possible that Apple is

  planning big things for the web but they

  still want everybody to have an iCloud

  account even if it's not a mobile-based

  viewing experience right i don't know i

  don't really think so it doesn't seem to

  me like Apple has done very much at all

  to encourage people to sign up for

  iCloud if they don't have an iOS device

  I mean even can you can you just go to I

  don't even know if this is possible i'm

  pretty pretty sure I feel like you can

  but i guess i've never not had a nice

  device like since I was a baby

  I'm trying to see what happened to sign

  in or learn more

  says right here iCloud and this is me

  signing in on chrome where I don't have

  em I already signed then if you go to

  iCloud that comment says to use iCloud

  first set it up with your Apple ID on a

  device with iOS 5 or mac with OS 10 lion

  10.7 point2 so now it looks like to get

  an account you need to be using one of

  the matter up but i don't mean I'd hood

  you could just use somebody's mak make a

  guest account sign up for free iCloud

  account and then go home to your you

  know HP whatever things are called right

  you know um I didn't think of another

  set of features are you like just a

  usability enhancements that I would love

  to see in the next version

  ok it's it would be like instant on

  connectivity like I'm a huge remote user

  right with the road app my apple TV and

  that is the there's always eat as soon

  as the phone goes to sleep there's

  another three-second 324 seconds of of

  reconnection to do before you can use

  the damn thing again like they got to

  solve that pretty pretty well I wonder

  if they could wonder if a big part of

  that could be solved with the the new

  bluetooth i forget if the new thing is

  bluetooth for bluetooth is for yeah

  that's for but that the whole emphasis

  the whole point of it is is reduced

  power and prolonged battery life during

  idle time i'm sort of emphasis but that

  would require new hardware it's not

  really a new software you know not new

  software in and of itself

  well although deuces maybe the new phone

  does have the bluetooth for the other

  new the new phone definitely has

  bluetooth for while they're making out

  but that but the appletv dozen so maybe

  the next Apple TV's gonna it would have

  that will have some of that stuff in it

  but it's weird it's like it's so

  difficult to imagine an apple where

  they're just relying have

  Leon bluetooth for even though they're

  even though they've had bluetooth and in

  all their devices for since since since

  the beginning

  it just seems like such a kind of old

  and dying like a dinosaur of a standard

  to have to build around

  yeah definitely does i don't know

  there's something about it that doesn't

  add up

  but on the other hand I think that the

  fighting the most surprising thing to me

  about the current apple TV is that it

  still uses infrared for the remote right

  which just seems so super antiquated

  does but i think it's like it's almost

  like a barrier to entry thing they just

  want to make it as easy as possible

  which it is right like as long as you

  can handle you interacting with the

  thing with four buttons then you're fine

  and but you still even with the IR that

  you still run into problems where you

  know the laser you get and the more

  slumped down on your couch you are maybe

  this is mine maybe he's just my TV

  posture problems picturing you watching

  TV with your legs up at the top of the

  couch right you're you're sort of

  hunched over with your head on the floor

  make cereal the coffee table starts

  getting in a way you know that you've

  run into these weird line-of-sight like

  line-of-sight seems like something that

  we shouldn't have to worry about anymore


  definitely and you know and if you get

  up and run to the fridge for refills you

  should be able to pause you know even

  though you're not line of sight to the

  TV anymore

  that's interesting it's interesting like

  you whereas are easy to Italy automatic

  pausing so into this so you will or if

  you just have the right if you have the

  remote your hand you should be able to

  do it and you can do that when you use

  the remote app because it's over Wi-Fi

  not line-of-sight right so if you've got

  some time in your hand like all be in

  the vibe every once in a while I'll be

  in the bathroom like with my iphone and

  I know that my girlfriend is in the

  bedroom with the apple TV on she's

  watching a show and I'll just dumb

  I'll take a picture of myself and then

  airplay the TV just to say hi

  is that is that weird

  she doesn't find it so funny is this

  where it is it weird though that I would

  that flag ask you to CC

  me on that list that I'd like to be on

  that I'd like to be on that list

  well it's so this guy like that is a

  good chuckle it is a good chuckle just

  i'll start a tumbler with all my my

  bathroom selfpics I'm really having a

  hard time coming up with ideas for what

  what they might add

  I don't know man I don't know if I'm I

  my creativity is at refining I i don't

  know if i'm missing something obvious

  like one of the reasons I wrote that

  piece on during fireball two weeks ago

  was to get people to send me emails with

  all the obvious things I was missing and

  I got some good ones but nothing that

  really jumped out at me as oh my god how

  did I not think of that you know i don't

  know it's just I think that there it

  just speaks to the to the pace at which

  they're they're catching up to the ideal

  it again it's like remember there was a

  time when we were all waiting for the

  next Mac to come out because we needed

  more speed and we need more power we

  need more hard drive space right

  eventually they just caught up and we

  could we were you know we're thinking

  geez if that what is going to be in the

  new 1i don't even know what I need

  anymore and I'm so then what happens

  when I mean like if your days sort of

  allow you the camera to the global

  picture what did happen is that they

  started concentrating on a new platform

  so is that the new way that is that the

  way to think about it I mean is there a

  definite like is there sort of a

  slightly different platform that's

  coming next on which they're going to

  start iterating slowly that makes it

  makes more sense to me and feels more

  right than anything else and I don't

  think I definitely don't expect them to

  do is to make any kind of big changes to

  the stuff that's already there in iOS as

  we know it on the iphone and on the ipad

  just for the sake of saying there's

  something new mm you know yeah no

  totally they know that that's not the

  game that there and that's the other

  hardware manufacturer right and as much

  as they get Apple get so much press when

  they make a big announcement

  I mean just almost unfathomable amount

  of of worldwide media attention when

  they ask for

  it they are not afraid of not making

  changes they're not afraid to keep

  things the same even though the people

  want to be wowed and blown away like

  I've asked about you know the fact that

  the iphone 4s when it's turned off looks

  almost completely identical to the

  iphone 4 by far the biggest money-making

  product and in apple right now and I

  think arguably the single most

  profitable product in any industry in

  the world and the brand-new model for

  the year looks exactly like the old and

  the answer you know is if we could think

  of something that was way better and it

  was different we would do it and if we

  can't find a if we're not ready to make

  anything that's we think is way better

  we're not going to make something

  different just to have something

  different right now does does does John

  Gruber ever sit at home and think about

  what's what's coming 10 years in the

  future and twenty i do and i come up

  blank i'm terrible at absolutely


  well I mean like your if you just like

  to pie-in-the-sky just like it should

  think you know space exploration robots

  are all around us what it was human

  computing human-computer interaction

  look like I would think that it's you

  know it's essentially invisible and the

  hardware as pretty much disappeared or

  as is is omnipresent like that it's get

  that level of pervasiveness that we

  don't even see it anymore so i would say

  that the the next steps in the

  development of the world's largest tech

  company is going to be you know

  incrementally reaching towards that and

  i think that the way they do that it is

  it is an every new generation of

  technology they start with something

  small and not at all obvious and not at

  all popular straight like like

  I guess we historically speaking at the

  tail end of the developer of the like

  feature completeness of the mac they

  start working on the ipad and people

  were saying it's ridiculously expensive

  and why would you need that and then

  eventually that sort of developed with

  an ecosystem into what's what working

  we're kind of saying is a device that

  feature that's nearing feature complete

  and and so that it's like certain it's

  now it's kind of time to like come up

  with the new ipod and what the hell is

  that I mean like I'm one of these people

  who actually firmly believes it's the TV

  like the job the big screen now is gonna

  is going to be the new thing that it

  seems like the dumbest idea in the world

  but then slowly develops over the next

  10 years

  alright but there's some kind of angle

  that we're missing

  we dancing because I mean I will admit I

  will fully admit that I my idea for the

  iphone you know when it won 2006 like

  the year before it actually came out

  when the rumors were super rampant I

  mean people have been talking about an

  apple cellphone for years but then it

  really accelerated beginning for the

  obvious reason that they actually were

  doing it and and while the details

  didn't leak the fact that they were

  doing it just inevitably made it

  permeated the the collective

  consciousness right

  my idea was an iphone or an ipod that

  made phone calls

  yeah you know and that the you would you

  know in the same way that you would

  spend the click wheel up and down to

  pick a song you would spend the click

  wheel up and down to pick one of your

  contacts and press the middle button and

  it would call them and it would be good

  all the same

  sorry good and I thought it would be

  great and then but in all the same

  barriers existed to achieving that that

  kind of exists in in this

  kind of exists in in this

  Nason TV world right now they still have

  all the huge behemoth infrastructure to

  completed to like ingratiate themselves

  with right and so my idea for apple TV

  is I don't know I guess exactly like my

  TV with the actual apple TV connected to

  it except you don't have to connect

  anything and then it's super obvious

  enough to make phone calls with it right

  and I'm sure it's just as wrong as my

  idea that the iphone would be an ipod

  with the click wheel so I'm you know I'm

  it's fun to be wrong though right that's

  that's like the fun part of what we do I


  alright i'm not a nun at the least bit

  embarrassed to be wrong about that

  because I get you know might be may be

  no fun at all if you could accurately

  predict it

  yeah gross right I cannot expenditure

  did the iphone introduction day and

  event was like one of the happiest days

  of my life

  me too and if i had predicted that it

  would have been like while I was there I

  saw that coming

  by any chance did you see the trailer

  for the other teaser for the master when

  you called paul thomas anderson now I

  did not go and watch it right this

  second well not right this second but

  like you said you know anything about it

  now it's sort of this it's loosely based

  on the on l ron hubbard huh yeah well

  should I could I could watch it and then

  we could have caleb take care of the oh

  yeah go go and watch it going short



  that was terribly exciting i was really

  good i don't know i just find I think

  that he's the most exciting for a

  director right now like he's he's he's

  the younger version of the terrence

  malick or something I our you know there

  is a Kubrick night i agree i see it

  ICL any edge of sort of Kubrick the

  Mallik to PT Anderson yeah just the guys

  that are not afraid to take things very

  very very seriously

  well and in a way of us an understanding

  of the art of cinema that it can stretch

  a moment to unbelievable length

  well that's an interesting way of

  putting it i like that and I'll tell you

  what just out i'll tell you what that

  that there's two parts of this trailer

  there's a part on a beach visually it's

  one conversation but what you see

  visually is looks like some Navy guys or

  something on the beach but then it cuts

  to then it ends up

  uuc then these this interview that's

  taking place between two characters

  what did that remind you a lot of the

  interview in The Shining oh yeah

  definitely other room is very so very

  similar with the walking phoenix AZ

  Jack 20 yeah um I think that every with

  you have to come to with a little bit of

  knowledge of what the the story is and I

  think it's that will it's that it's the

  origin story of El ron Hubbard and this

  and his knee is his new nose neophyte

  the right word is new like wingman

  anybody find that he discovers to help

  him run is

  is you know his thing and that and I

  know that there's like in Scientology

  there's this tradition of the like very

  military sick but not like navel and

  analog in a naval analogy to to the

  whole structure of Scientology so i

  think that what we're seeing is that

  where we're watching the background of

  this may have the the wingman character

  mhm I you know I don't know anything

  about it is it it is it about

  Scientology no it's not but it's about a

  figure like l ron hubbard ah got it so

  it's not really doesn't it got it sort

  of Solon Citizen Kane was to first

  yeah exactly exactly right so that's

  three comparison and and it's Philip

  Seymour Hoffman as their own Hubbard

  character haha perfect yeah perfect man

  I so I you know what is coming out one

  movie coming out pretty soon pretty soon

  all right so you got to come back on and

  we'll talk about the movie

  okay great alright gotta get that back

  on the show will get these movie reviews

  back in the meantime you can always

  check out some VHS VHS cassettes of the

  master the TV show with Lee Van Cleef as

  an as a master ninja and Timothy band

  Timothy Van Patten as a sidekick from

  1984 man that'll make a Mike Lee Van

  Cleef anymore no I don't the mustache on

  the many kidding me he was and he was

  missing the tip of a finger didn't know


  oh man that's whether the great things

  about him and you know of course Sergio

  Leone loved his clothes upstairs a clean

  anytime you see a close-up of leave and

  cliffs hand going for his pistol get a

  lock he's missing a finger tip I mean

  that you can't fake that kind of

  badassery you know he lost that a bar

  fight or something but yeah somebody bit


  yeah i've got probably him you know like

  you know you mean like they're right

  like on a dare like a bite my finger tip

  off valve that I don't need it

  he was a badass yeah speaking of badass

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  ya know that was great i got a couple

  more things I want to talk about i want

  to mention i want to mention to work

  that you're doing at sandwich video

  right and and what's the new thing but

  the new things the production company

  started by morgan spurlock the direct to

  the documentary director and he invited

  small handful of directors that doing

  them you know working in various

  disciplines to basically join this

  company and be represented by the

  company to do work commercial broadcast

  commercial work for you know bigger

  companies one of the other directors is

  gary has to it you know the filmmaker

  behind a beautiful trilogy

  helvetica America objectified and

  signified a fighter been trying for but

  remember not organized organized as you

  say buildings that line right right

  urbanized most of them are documentary

  directors I'm like the I'm sort of like

  the small web spot guy right

  so in your usual humble way you have

  described it accurately i would describe

  it as that that Morgan Spurlock has put

  together the Avengers of commercial

  directors and you're in there I've

  clearly i think clearly as the Hulk I

  don't know which will see right nineteen

  ninety nine percent of the time you're

  Bruce Banner you know in nobody would

  like you when you're angry

  your pants are ripped yeah well that

  part is true right soso could be could

  be interesting

  I'm you know there's always been the

  threat of like doing these small ones

  that i do but on a bigger scale of

  course it's a whole different ballgame

  ballgame when you're doing that because

  there's an ad agency in place and

  they're there they're the ones that are

  delivering a lot of the creative input

  and in my small in my little company and

  sandwich video i basically act as the ad

  agency direct to the client so there's a

  lot of freedom in that there's a lot of

  responsibility and I'm just kind of

  curious about what happens in this i'm

  mostly that's it is curiosity to see

  whether I can whether it's something i

  can actually do you say anything about

  what you're working on right now you you

  alluded at the outset of of the show

  that you are editing yeah I'm editing

  two things here at at pictures in a row

  and Hollywood one of them is is the most

  fun project I've ever gotten to work on

  because it's like it's for a new video

  game coming out the trailer and I've

  never gotten to do that before and i'm

  not a huge gig video game player but i

  will this is a it's an interesting take

  on an old format i can't say much more

  than that I wanted to be about like a

  nice surprise and it comes but some

  heavy hitters are behind it in the games

  and in the game's world and like it's

  just a lot of fun because it's like it's

  it's playing in a world that I've always

  been partial to since I was a kid games

  are big business now huge right i mean

  it and i'm wrong i might be might be if

  i'm wrong correct me and you should know

  this but there's more money spent on

  video games now then spent on motion


  well I don't actually know I don't know

  the number and i know that it could

  easily be true could be that a video

  game costs 200 million dollars to do

  well but also that like the amount of

  money that by us consumers spend on

  video games is more than what they spend

  to watch movies

  I'm but at the very least they're in the

  same ballpark

  oh absolutely in the same ballpark and

  then the model is sort of similar to

  with the studio's cranking out the big

  hits and they sequels and everything big

  opening weekends and promotions 22 to

  herald the arrival and teasers like you

  exactly what you're doing trailers that

  will advertise you know release dates

  very similar

  yeah then we'll do you do you play games

  with the boy we play some games on the

  wii wii is fun

  yeah but he's he got a d/s for Christmas

  and he loves it and it was interesting

  to me because I wasn't sure whether you

  know he also has like old we have so

  many old iphone sitting around so he has

  access to iphones and he does play

  iphone games to but so is interesting to

  me with the Des appeal to somebody who

  if you already have unlimited access to

  an iphone four games with the d/s appeal

  to you as well and the truth is not

  surprisingly it does because nintendo is

  very good at what they do

  mom and i think that the d/s games he

  likes are far more immersive than the

  iOS games that he likes sure I've played

  with the 3d one

  yeah that's what he has it three guys

  okay that's pretty neat yeah it's

  because and I generally don't like 3d

  but it

  you know that and I think part of the

  reason that I don't like 3ds is right


  Roger Ebert alley where I go to a movie

  and you put these glasses on me and

  forget the whole 3d 2d thing it's

  everything looks dark and there's no way

  to to make up for that movies look

  better when the ball was right when the

  picture is super bright and you put

  these glasses on and everything gets

  dark and so I've already disappointed

  every time I see the 3d movie because of

  that the 3ds doesn't involve any glasses

  you just look at it and and to me that's

  an enormous difference right I need to

  me any 3d technology that requires

  glasses that everybody who was involved

  in making this stuff ought to be looking

  for ways to get rid of it

  sure what I was at the office and my

  office i have a TV like a TV on the wall

  that's actually 3d TV because it

  actually doesn't cost much more than 24

  a 3d enabled TV and and then the glasses

  class 50 bucks and i happen to be like I

  love 3d i love 3d movies

  I'm all-in um and so I bought a few

  blu-rays and easy and i love the

  experience the glasses i can see how

  they get in the way to like domination

  but but when i when i tried all my

  friends iphone 3d I mean what it is

  yeah the nintendo 3ds without the

  glasses and it just works you just have

  to have the right angle of view and then

  and all of a sudden it's this new pop

  out pop out book I mean I guess that's

  the feeling it gave me is like when

  you're a kid and you look at a pop-up

  book for the first time

  yeah and I remember I've played you know

  a couple of games I've and I'd it's one

  of those things where I don't play as

  many that my whole reason i got on this

  was that I don't play as many games with

  him on the wii as much because he's on

  the 3ds and it's a no he's just all

  personal experiences right but but I've

  you know I've tinkered with it and with

  the mario kart and but i think it's most

  interesting for like a platform type

  game where the game is 2d but they show

  it in a little bit of 3d and it really

  helps and and it's a

  like a little joyful extra touch like in

  a way that it's just it's not really

  useful but it's just joyful when screens

  on the iphone animate and slide and it's

  very smooth like from a practical

  perspective the 3d effects applied to a

  2-d game doesn't really serve any

  purpose but it just somehow makes it it

  does make it seem more fun is a question

  I have to go back to the iphone for a

  second and just talking about that 3ds

  made me think of it why what that way

  okay so that's the the rumors of the for

  the 4-inch sixteen by nine iphone screen

  right what the hell happens to the

  millions of apps they're coded for you

  know one and a half by one or whatever 3

  by 2 aspect ratio

  well it's funny you should ask i just

  wrote about it before we started

  recording i'm good i think that for most

  of them that it's sort of like the way

  that you resize windows on mac that you

  know like Safari like the you know the

  URL bar stays at the top and the other

  buttons stay at the bottom and then

  there's just more room in the middle for

  content and it's the same way that apps

  are already most apps are already

  flexible in that regard like if you are

  on a phone call hit the home button

  while you're still on the call and go to

  mail that double-height green status bar

  that says hey you're on a phone call

  it's double-height it doesn't cover

  male-male squishes the window down so

  that it gives the status bar an extra

  you know 40 pixels or whatever it is

  mhm on so i think that if developers are

  using the api's right to respond to that

  sort of thing that when the app is

  launched on a phone with more pixels

  it'll just go up there and grow now the

  big exception and i'm sure it's why you

  thought about it is games because games

  don't have like a flexible content area

  in the mail

  right so like a list of mail messages

  well the screen shrinks are grows

  horizontally you just show more or fewer

  messages in the list but a game is sort

  of hard coded to a specific aspect ratio

  and i'm not quite sure what the answer

  is to that

  yeah it's a tough it's a tough one

  because it's for designers who are just

  precious about every pixel and see it be

  really really frustrating how many extra

  pixels it's 1130 6-1 970 276 pixels and

  it's only six it's a about a half an

  inch physical size

  yeah that's a lot to deal with

  so like if you let her boxer or

  pillar-box did or whatever you want to

  call it with it you know it wouldn't be

  I think that one solution to it is if

  that an app is hard-coded only to have 3

  by 2 UI elements that it would just be

  letterboxed and yeah you know it

  wouldn't be profound you know wouldn't

  be still a huge black bars but there

  would be black bars i'm i'm excited that

  the screen is going to finally be

  sixteen by nine for video because i

  always feel weird watching video and you

  have to choose which is the lesser of

  two evils to you describe into it

  ideally the letterbox all right products

  and I think that's one of the reasons

  they're going to do it as that you know

  and and why did they do it from the

  outset I don't know and they're never

  going to explain themselves but my

  thought is perhaps it was just a

  technical problem that you know and and

  to me it's about at the tension or a

  major source of tension in the design of

  these mobile devices is that you want

  the smallest physical hardware device

  possible and you want a big screen and

  thatthat's there's tension there so the

  way some of these android phones have

  gone as if they've just will slack in

  the tension on how big the devices and

  said screw it will just make a phone

  that's actually not even that

  comfortable to hold in one hand but

  you'll get a big screen and I'd I expect

  holy expect that if if it's true that

  Apple's doing a 4-inch iphone that the

  actual phone itself will not be any

  bigger it will be

  the same size if not even smaller just

  so they can be coy about it because if

  you just turn on your iPhone and look

  there's plenty of room on the screen for

  it to be at a taller display they just

  shrink the chin and forehead areas a

  little bit right corner in the other is

  a range of quarter-inch down is any

  other heart phone maker doing or retina

  equivalent display it i think so i think

  HTC I think some of the android guys are

  up in the 300 and some pixel range per

  inch and and that's you know I think

  anything over 300 by Apple's definition

  counters retina true but a lot of those

  guys it's in it's it's I'm just so glad

  I don't have to really write about him

  and try all those phones like the

  engadget that's because it'll some of

  them use the pentile AMOLED and that it

  doesn't really count as you know right

  now because they're cheating on the

  sub-pixels and and it just looks gross

  when you look at those amoled displays

  yeah but I don't know what the answer is

  four games I don't know

  and then what happens because the other

  thing too is that what happens to a game

  that is optimized for the 16 deny phone

  when it runs on the 32 iphone a smart

  game with gaming the i think is

  definitely the hardest thing to answer

  on that because then you you would run

  the same thing as what are they going to

  do profit on a three-to-two and you're

  missing some stuff on the side of the

  the game that will work

  alright alright you're going to have to

  code the game so that it takes it does


  I don't know it's weird but um amazing

  still with that with those limitations

  how extensible the the platform is

  definitely just put all that power in

  the developers hands and I do think too

  i think that the I think that the the

  big big use cases for these devices

  especially the phone every week always

  call it the phone but you know the phone

  is just like the lamest of the things

  that it does but it's a camera right

  it's everybody's pocket camera right and

  I'm you know a little bit of a camera

  nerd and

  I have like a that Rico that you know

  that i carry around a little

  pocket-sized camera and I mean it's a

  pic i paid a hundred dollars for it so I

  mean I my point-and-shoot camera cost a

  tinderbox which you know I think

  qualifies me not as a professional but

  as a sort of prosumer idiot who spends

  eight hundred dollars on a

  point-and-shoot camera and I I you know

  I don't know when I bought that around

  2006-2007 a long time ago but in camera

  you know if you're a camera nerd type

  type of guy and I'm just not tempted to

  replace it because i use it less and

  less and less than I just shoot all the

  you know if i'm not using an SLR my big

  fat canon 5d that i'm using the iphone

  and i think a 69 display makes way more

  sense for a camera i agree it's not it's

  not a for it's not an aspect ratio that

  any I think there's like what may be one

  panasonic stills camera that shoots and

  sixteen by nine natively right but I can

  definitely see it being becoming more of

  a popular form at all because I mean

  because a it's exactly the same as what

  we see on our tvs everyday i think

  that's that's awesome right i would love

  I even sometimes like when I shoot a an

  iphone still or irregular still with my

  normal camera i call crop it to sixteen

  by nine just because I know as more of a

  film look to it as soon as cinematic

  look to it

  right right that was exactly you just

  took the words right out of my mouth

  that I you know people have said to me

  and I get in all sorts of great smart

  emails from readers and listeners but

  one of the things that people have held

  up as I don't think apple is going to go

  16 29 is that the 423 camera 2423 camera

  still photo ratio will be even worse

  worse fit than on the existing phone so

  my answer to them is exactly what you

  said who says that the camera still

  going to shoot for 23 right why not just

  do co16 tonight if if if the screen is

  69 why not just go 69 on the images to

  yeah it's ok it's a clear wall it's

  interesting questions so you know if

  you're on your camera and your shooting

  is still i'm just going to look at this

  real quick

  shooting is still and you've got that

  full I don't know it's four by three but

  it's like it's not a 16 by 9 frame is

  taller than that and then you switch

  over to video mode and then the I'm

  trying to figure out does the sensor

  widen out the are you getting more image

  and video motor you can I are getting

  less on your debt you're definitely

  punching in and remind that right i had

  a theory but that it was a dumb thing

  right now it's a crop but that's why and

  that's arm just throw-in it as what's

  that thing called the olloclip ever seen


  yeah let's look for dr. that's the whole

  that's like the major point of that fish

  eye lens on the audio clip I didn't

  realize this and and many many months

  ago on the on the show dan and I talked

  about the other clip and I i said i love

  the wide angle i love the close-up lens

  the macro lens i don't get the fisheye

  lens because it's so preposterous Lee

  fish-eyed yeah the kids comedy lines

  right right except and then I went to

  Macworld Expo and I met ala clip guys in

  there just 22 of the greatest guys you

  can imagine just exact type of like

  entrepreneur making their own thing like

  I just the type of guys i just love to

  guys who just had the idea to make this

  thing and sell it and and it's you know

  became a hit and I said look I just

  don't get this fish eye lines it's so

  comical it is and yet it's a huge chunk

  of the actual hardware thing would be so

  much smaller and more easy to put your

  pocket without it and he said well

  people do use it for ourselves but the

  big point is that it's great for video

  because the videos on the iphone shot

  crop sensor and with that ridiculous

  fisheye it actually just turns it into

  like wide-angle lens for video and as

  soon as he said that was like oh duh can

  perform that super useful and at that

  that's where people use that all clip

  fisheye lens is to shoot video smart but

  anyway they just 169 across-the-board

  all sorts of things become a little a

  lot easier right

  your you shoot 16 29 photos they show up

  on your phone and there's no crop and

  then you just see what you shot and then

  you show on your TV that they show up

  exactly as they were shot yeah and you

  know it just looks better because our

  eyes are sideways

  that's why widespread is it is wide

  screen looks better because you know

  we're used to seeing things panoramic

  Lee yep i love 16 by 9 name my first kid

  sixteen by nine