The Incomparable

203: Get to the Farting Aliens


  comfortable number 203 july 2014 [TS]

  welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

  podcast I'm your host Jason Snell up in [TS]

  november of last year we spent some time [TS]

  talking about Doctor Who on the occasion [TS]

  of the 50th anniversary of dr. who and [TS]

  it's a show that I love I love the old [TS]

  series when I was in in high school and [TS]

  I love the new series now and we have a [TS]

  great reaction from it and a lot of [TS]

  people were talking about where you [TS]

  should get started if you're new doctor [TS]

  who and also just we're interested in us [TS]

  talking more about it and while the [TS]

  fabric is not a doctor who podcast we do [TS]

  talk about it we've done our flash cast [TS]

  about the new series as the episodes [TS]

  have aired and in the interim because [TS]

  the new series isn't coming back for [TS]

  another month and a half or so as we [TS]

  record this I thought it would be a good [TS]

  time to talk about Doctor Who a little [TS]

  more so we're going to talk about where [TS]

  to get started with Doctor Who and we're [TS]

  also going to talk about the russell t [TS]

  davies Sarah which is the 2005 to 2010 [TS]

  but only if you count new years day of [TS]

  2010 era of the show so probably will [TS]

  say five years the first five years of [TS]

  the of the relaunch of the series [TS]

  joining me are actually I believe RR [TS]

  same panel of Doctor Who experts and / [TS]

  fans / people that we had in November [TS]

  for the 50th anniversary episode we're [TS]

  caught in the time loop that's right by [TS]

  voice you just heard its chips under the [TS]

  host of the 2-minute Time Lord podcast [TS]

  and co-host of the audio guide to [TS]

  Babylon 5 hi chip welcome back [TS]

  hey thanks for having me back i enjoy it [TS]

  it's good to have you here will go for [TS]

  longer than two minutes again so you [TS]

  know again you get to spread your wings [TS]

  don't talk so fast slow it down a little [TS]

  and soak a working with Erica on the b5 [TS]

  podcast i am flexing my muscles I'm [TS]

  exercising I'm hydrating I'm ready to [TS]

  talk [TS]

  yeah that my guests can often be you [TS]

  know for 57 minutes long or longer [TS]

  uh Erica and sign you mentioned you [TS]

  mentioned her and she is also here [TS]

  because again the Babylon 5 podcast that [TS]

  she's with you and your wife Shannon on [TS]

  the audio guide to Babylon 5 but also [TS]

  one of the hosts of of the hugo [TS]

  nominated Verity [TS]

  accounts which is a doctor podcast hello [TS]

  hello and I'm unplugging everything [TS]

  tonight apparently think that's awesome [TS]

  i just i still it still makes me like [TS]

  just shake my head a little bit when you [TS]

  say hero nominated i know i'm just gonna [TS]

  keep saying it [TS]

  I am honored and it's awesome but it [TS]

  still makes me feel weird [TS]

  yeah at least I didn't say her like this [TS]

  is not in paul Cornell's Hugo nominated [TS]

  comic book this is also true and that [TS]

  laughter you hear you know I'm you love [TS]

  and you can't live without him and if [TS]

  you follow him on twitter you can't live [TS]

  with him it's glenn freshman hi this is [TS]

  an excellent reduction we get the music [TS]

  feeling like there should be thin man [TS]

  and i just have like a giant glass of [TS]

  sugar before we got on the air so I'm [TS]

  ready to go [TS]

  I can't say I'm happy to be here yeah [TS]

  just to get how do you get how do you [TS]

  get pumped up to the doctor who episode [TS]

  so so let's get started by talking about [TS]

  where where people should get started [TS]

  because i think that's a good way in and [TS]

  then if people haven't watched the [TS]

  russell t davies here yet they can they [TS]

  can tune out and if they want to and and [TS]

  come back to that part of the [TS]

  conversation later but it was definitely [TS]

  something i heard over and over again in [TS]

  november when everybody's talking about [TS]

  the 50th and when our episode posted [TS]

  that a lot of people who are so casual [TS]

  sci-fi fans and don't have heard about [TS]

  it and and something we going to mention [TS]

  before we got started the intimidation [TS]

  of 50 years of history and thinking [TS]

  about how do i get caught up in all this [TS]

  continuity and what should I learn in [TS]

  other episodes i should use sort of [TS]

  putting a modern TV series question on [TS]

  something like Doctor Who that I think [TS]

  you just can't he can't compare this is [TS]

  not the kind of thing that you must go [TS]

  back to episode 1 and of of 1964 and [TS]

  their 1963 and go from there it's it you [TS]

  can't do it so I'm curious i wrote a [TS]

  thing on the internet about this too but [TS]

  you know there was no right answer i'm [TS]

  just curious in your past or what you [TS]

  would do now if somebody came up to you [TS]

  and said how do i get started with [TS]

  doctor who you know what would be your [TS]

  prescription if it's somebody who's like [TS]

  just they're curious and they're [TS]

  interested in you want to share your [TS]

  love the show but they just don't know [TS]

  where to start [TS]

  chip what do you think I think that [TS]

  paradoxically because we're getting [TS]

  ready to talk about the recipe Davis [TS]

  here which is my favorite era [TS]

  I'd have to say that the best jumping on [TS]

  point is the episode that said goodbye [TS]

  to the russell t davies Sarah and that's [TS]

  the eleventh hour show run by the [TS]

  current producer Steven Moffat it gives [TS]

  you a bit of the history but it's a [TS]

  fantastic stand-alones all in one [TS]

  episode that introduces a new doctor [TS]

  introduces a whole new status quo which [TS]

  means it's a perfect stuff jumping on [TS]

  point with no baggage to deal with [TS]

  really that's interesting i made I made [TS]

  reference to that in a blog post that I [TS]

  wrote and people had some people who are [TS]

  like what are you crazy and I actually [TS]

  hadn't meant to recommend it [TS]

  I I that wasn't my recommendation i just [TS]

  said it was a possible starting off [TS]

  point but uh I do wonder because that [TS]

  was from 2010 I do wonder as time goes [TS]

  on [TS]

  if that is going to be more of a [TS]

  consensus jumping on point only because [TS]

  it won't seem you know it won't seem as [TS]

  old it is five years newer in terms of [TS]

  the look and that special effects and [TS]

  all that and I worry if you're [TS]

  introducing somebody to the show that if [TS]

  you make them go too far back they might [TS]

  even get turned off by things feeling [TS]

  dated I'm not sure 2005 feels dated that [TS]

  much at this point but there's going to [TS]

  be a time if not now there's going to be [TS]

  a time and the eleventh hour has some [TS]

  baggage with it but it is it also has a [TS]

  lot going for it [TS]

  I have I have two words for you about [TS]

  whether the 2005 first episode feels [TS]

  dated garbage bin yeah one additional [TS]

  word burp he know that was but that was [TS]

  that was bad then this that's the [TS]

  difference between something that's data [TS]

  and something that's mean yeah I were [TS]

  and we're going to talk about the rtd [TS]

  era in general here too but thatthat's [TS]

  there is there's some weird tone they [TS]

  didn't know what they were doing they [TS]

  didn't even know how to make that show [TS]

  when they made those episodes and you [TS]

  can see it's all over the place and [TS]

  looking back you can see all the good in [TS]

  it but it's certainly not of the level [TS]

  of quality and consistency that you get [TS]

  with something like the eleventh hour [TS]

  that the start of the Steven Moffat era [TS]

  where it is it's an HD if the effects [TS]

  are our great it is beautifully shot the [TS]

  cinematography the show's never looked [TS]

  better [TS]

  and it's got a new doctor a new [TS]

  companion so there's no baggage or [TS]

  history so it's not as if there was a [TS]

  crossover companion from the like with [TS]

  david tennant's first episode it's it's [TS]

  it's a clean slate and I and I think the [TS]

  evidence in the growing fandom in the [TS]

  u.s. to matt smith suggest that a lot of [TS]

  people kind of discovered it when it [TS]

  went to BBC america and Matt Smith came [TS]

  on board so i think a lot of people have [TS]

  used that as a jumping-off point you [TS]

  know it's not even just a clean slate as [TS]

  far as the doctor and the companion but [TS]

  behind the scenes it's practically a [TS]

  clean slate as well you have not only [TS]

  the showrunner changing over with matt [TS]

  smith but a lot of the other producers [TS]

  and and folks behind the scenes so that [TS]

  just as has happened many times in the [TS]

  past and doctor who you really are [TS]

  starting over a little bit still the [TS]

  same character but it's not the same [TS]

  character and I think that that that is [TS]

  one of the best places to jump on it is [TS]

  and that is also one of the biggest [TS]

  challenges in getting somebody into the [TS]

  show is that doctor who has been so many [TS]

  shows over the years it's really hard to [TS]

  get a modern-day new viewer to give the [TS]

  classic series to try it's so hard to [TS]

  get people to give any classic series of [TS]

  try when you've got modern show as it [TS]

  has a different example as a different [TS]

  option you've got the modern show that's [TS]

  filmed in widescreen and has decent [TS]

  special effects and all that so doctor [TS]

  who is all kinds of different shows [TS]

  where to start i would say start as [TS]

  early as you can with something that [TS]

  resembles what's on TV now and for me [TS]

  that's the eleventh hour [TS]

  well i would take a different stance [TS]

  just so that I'm not saying the same [TS]

  thing as everyone else I have more mixed [TS]

  feelings about the Matt Smith era I was [TS]

  not as big a massive fan although i [TS]

  really liked him a lot of episodes I [TS]

  felt like the writing has been more [TS]

  uneven in the Mafia era and I feel like [TS]

  it's upset feel like a total wash to me [TS]

  and so my dubiousness about getting [TS]

  people to start with 11th hour although [TS]

  I agree with everything all three of you [TS]

  say about that [TS]

  it's a different era I feel like if [TS]

  we're talking about and you know sort of [TS]

  the Russell different do not talk about [TS]

  Russell Davis [TS]

  exactly right now but i think if you [TS]

  want to say why did this garner so much [TS]

  interest that have been exploded and [TS]

  continue to grow into what was the math [TS]

  smitha i would say let me be provocative [TS]

  and say Christmas invasion [TS]

  alright because it's a little bit of a [TS]

  break so I i love Chris Eccleston I [TS]

  think he did a fantastic [TS]

  he totally reinterpreted what the doctor [TS]

  was about while remaining entirely in [TS]

  the tradition of it and we talked about [TS]

  that i think a year ago but like that [TS]

  maniacal smile he could come up with was [TS]

  so Tom Baker it was it was like a great [TS]

  homage to it was his own thing and so I [TS]

  thought Chris Eccleston an amazing job [TS]

  and I loved many of his episodes are so [TS]

  are terrific and my favorites but like [TS]

  the whole bad wolf are can return the [TS]

  Daleks always so but that said I think [TS]

  david tennant was more approachable and [TS]

  reachable I think the stories started to [TS]

  get more sophisticated and if someone [TS]

  started with Christmas invasion that [TS]

  eventually circle back to eccleston the [TS]

  Christmas invasion then they go to New [TS]

  Earth which is an interesting bizarre i [TS]

  mean your plot holes aside let's to say [TS]

  what you have to say with dr. we don't [TS]

  worry about some of the plot issues [TS]

  without the words that calls back but [TS]

  it's also great to think law is kind of [TS]

  all over the place [TS]

  I don't know what you're talking about [TS]

  glad when I get a horrible infection i [TS]

  hope the people spray colorful liquid on [TS]

  me to secure it [TS]

  I don't know what you're talking about [TS]

  it's true sure that's I'd like to be [TS]

  locked up in cells and cured and [TS]

  garfield over here then you get a school [TS]

  reunion which we get Sarah Jane back to [TS]

  anyone who knew about the old series [TS]

  because it ain't enough we get Mickey [TS]

  back and we started making integrated [TS]

  weed girl in the fireplace and the [TS]

  Cybermen and then I think you know this [TS]

  season goes on and I think it's a very [TS]

  strong season so if you're trying to [TS]

  tell somebody what the scope of the [TS]

  Davis area and the sort of new thing is [TS]

  about I think this tells a lot of [TS]

  stories and girl the fireplace of course [TS]

  I think it's one of the best episodes of [TS]

  the modern modern run so I like some of [TS]

  the others quite a bit [TS]

  Wow my eyes just rolled in the back of [TS]

  my head there you don't think about it [TS]

  as we revealed in the episode november [TS]

  that is one of my very very favorite new [TS]

  series episodes but you know doctor who [TS]

  is an amazing yeah we were all so [TS]

  diametrically opposed to an orphan black [TS]

  episodes so you know it happens [TS]

  different strokes but this is good we [TS]

  give people multiple [TS]

  entrance points to so I wanted to jump [TS]

  on that just for a second to say i think [TS]

  it's i think it's not a bad idea i think [TS]

  i think it's a less bumpy ride then the [TS]

  then the the Christopher Eccleston's [TS]

  season there's a moment in tooth and [TS]

  claw new earth is is a strange episode [TS]

  there's a moment in tooth and claw where [TS]

  I turned to my wife we're watching I [TS]

  said they figured out how to do this [TS]

  show because like I said the first [TS]

  season was kinda in and out and strange [TS]

  and in tooth and claw I'm like oh they [TS]

  got it they are confident and they did [TS]

  you know it's a working confident they [TS]

  figured it out and yeah well that's the [TS]

  argument right but it's like competently [TS]

  produced they kind of know what tone [TS]

  they're going for it it's not a shaky [TS]

  season as the first season is I think [TS]

  but it's still got some issues it's just [TS]

  as farting aliens that that's for me [TS]

  that's the big problem is that although [TS]

  i think you should start with Rose I [TS]

  think that is the you should be the [TS]

  right answer but the problem is unless [TS]

  you are reaching somebody who is really [TS]

  committed to this if they're just [TS]

  curious i worry about turning out on [TS]

  Rose because they're going to get to [TS]

  fighting aliens really fast and and then [TS]

  they've got the long game I there's a [TS]

  there's a run of weak weak episodes [TS]

  before it kind of picks up at the end [TS]

  my doctor is david tennant on baker and [TS]

  david tennant are my two doctors so that [TS]

  really feels my bias which is why i [TS]

  would say that's part of why I give that [TS]

  extra point even though i love [TS]

  Eccleston's and I I think matt smith is [TS]

  great said scripting aside like I don't [TS]

  say don't watch the mat smith episodes [TS]

  or whatever but it's you have to be I [TS]

  think it's jason saying much more [TS]

  committed to the series before you go [TS]

  back and watch echoes thing because [TS]

  you're watching with the more jaundiced [TS]

  eye and then the Smith series starting [TS]

  with that are so different in appearance [TS]

  that they could make everything before [TS]

  it seemed really 1980s almost yeah but [TS]

  there's so much content after that you [TS]

  know if you if you start them with matt [TS]

  smith there's lots and lots of matt [TS]

  smith episodes to go [TS]

  I think it's dangerous to sort of try to [TS]

  come up with a one-size-fits-all entry [TS]

  point i think if it's a a co-worker or [TS]

  an acquaintance you don't know very well [TS]

  then maybe the eleventh hour is is the [TS]

  the smartest one to go with but if it's [TS]

  somebody that you actually kind of know [TS]

  a little bit take into account with [TS]

  their personality is like are they the [TS]

  kind of a nerd that is willing to commit [TS]

  and will actually sit through the stuff [TS]

  that you see in the first season first [TS]

  series because the neck [TS]

  case I think Rose is a good place to [TS]

  jump in but if it's somebody who really [TS]

  wants to be on the train right away and [TS]

  be able to watch the new episodes as [TS]

  they come out i mean like you said we're [TS]

  only about a month and a half away from [TS]

  the new seasons starting and if it's [TS]

  somebody that's gonna want to be caught [TS]

  up [TS]

  maybe he's telling to wait and just [TS]

  start right now because there is no bad [TS]

  place to start with Doctor Who I don't [TS]

  think every night I know people who have [TS]

  started in all kinds of crazy ways and [TS]

  have become really huge fans [TS]

  well the first episode I saw was the [TS]

  power of Kroll and i'm still here so I [TS]

  know a number of people on Twitter said [TS]

  they started with wrote they said all [TS]

  right I'm gonna binge-watch this i [TS]

  started with rose and then I stopped and [TS]

  I'm like all like it's not that Rose is [TS]

  a terrible episode it's got a lot of [TS]

  great stuff in it and you know the [TS]

  vulnerability and strength that Billie [TS]

  Piper has i think is shown in that first [TS]

  episode Eccleston's sort of like he's to [TS]

  find the character in that episode even [TS]

  if the show is the clunky I think it's a [TS]

  great final episode but if people are [TS]

  saying i watched rose and then I stopped [TS]

  like okay that's if you if you give up [TS]

  there you're way too early there's you [TS]

  know now 8 years 9 years beyond that [TS]

  much of witches is better than that [TS]

  episode even the same season you're [TS]

  gonna find stuff better than that [TS]

  episode [TS]

  yeah if you're really invested in being [TS]

  on board right away but you don't want [TS]

  to just jump in i would suggest starting [TS]

  with the probably the Clara episodes so [TS]

  maybe you know the snowman or something [TS]

  like that might that's where my sister [TS]

  started actually with a snowman and she [TS]

  enjoyed it so much that she went all the [TS]

  way back to Rose and is almost all the [TS]

  way wrapped around and caught up and she [TS]

  plans to be all the way through the rest [TS]

  of the mat smith ones she hadn't seen by [TS]

  the time the new one starts with Peter [TS]

  Capaldi and that that brought her in [TS]

  that's a nice that's a nice approach i [TS]

  tried to evangelize my brother on this [TS]

  thing I talked about it on my podcast [TS]

  two-minute timelord 336 and the problem [TS]

  was that here i am saying that this is a [TS]

  fantastic show you should watch it and [TS]

  the universal truth of brothers is if [TS]

  you like something your brother is [TS]

  predisposed to hate it so i kept I tried [TS]

  rose and he was it the the burping trash [TS]

  bin that was it i tried blink and you [TS]

  know you're in trouble when the up [TS]

  objection to the episode is it's just [TS]

  people running and being chased by [TS]

  creature things bye-bye pokey creature [TS]

  things which is the which is in doctor [TS]

  whose DNA [TS]

  yeah yeah there it doesn't show of lots [TS]

  of running in aliens [TS]

  well I do like they did they ran like [TS]

  they ran with it sorry in the modern [TS]

  series that there's just that joke about [TS]

  what did you say I said run [TS]

  what did he say to you he said run what [TS]

  do you say run run [TS]

  ok alright well now we're just saying [TS]

  that we're just going to say we're not [TS]

  gonna be coy this is what the shows [TS]

  about the one episode that finally [TS]

  seemed to stick with him was the [TS]

  doctor's wife but that is a horrible [TS]

  episode for showing somebody that you [TS]

  haven't already tried to get them in [TS]

  with a few episodes before and it [TS]

  requires a bit of appreciation for the [TS]

  series in the first place so this was [TS]

  going to be one of my questions is the [TS]

  approach of trying to pick cherry-pick [TS]

  episodes versus trying to just say look [TS]

  start here and and and binge-watch which [TS]

  we can do now and if if you're not [TS]

  holding your hand saying all right we're [TS]

  gonna watch this one together and I'm [TS]

  gonna ask you questions afterward and [TS]

  then we'll see where we go from here [TS]

  which you could do if your prescribed [TS]

  like you will you do with your brother [TS]

  which is we're just gonna watch blink [TS]

  and I've heard a lot of people say i [TS]

  would show people I would show people [TS]

  blink which I find strange because [TS]

  although I do love that episode I think [TS]

  it's a great episode [TS]

  it's also so not a doctor who episode in [TS]

  so many ways it's so-so off format from [TS]

  the series that I'm not sure what it [TS]

  proves [TS]

  other than that it's a weird time travel [TS]

  show [TS]

  I i wrote a blog post on this once [TS]

  myself just about how it really is an [TS]

  excellent example of writing and it [TS]

  grabs you and it just it shows you know [TS]

  what the show can do if you let the [TS]

  person know at the outset that it's kind [TS]

  of an outlier I i think at the end of it [TS]

  most of the people I've shown it to have [TS]

  been so excited that they were like this [TS]

  is awesome [TS]

  I i want to see more and then they're [TS]

  willing to buy in and willing to put up [TS]

  with a burping trash bins in the [TS]

  fighting aliens because they know [TS]

  there's something like this on around [TS]

  lots of body functions that forgot about [TS]

  a doctor here that's for sure [TS]

  I wonder actually come to think of it if [TS]

  Smith and Jones the third season over [TS]

  there isn't a bad it isn't a bad opening [TS]

  gambit in terms of it it's it's [TS]

  self-contained it introduces a new [TS]

  companion which means that it [TS]

  is to introduce the doctor and it's it's [TS]

  got good characters it's got some goofy [TS]

  high-concept stuff like a hospital on [TS]

  the minute moon i love the creepy creepy [TS]

  alien she's great you know robo whoa [TS]

  whoa whoa no no you know i know i just [TS]

  i'm just doing some june because i can [TS]

  get the lady with the straw old lady [TS]

  with the strong she was great everyone [TS]

  like my son still talks about her that [TS]

  actress was just on TV when we were [TS]

  flipping through my god it's just the [TS]

  but now is the thing that is most [TS]

  terrifying but now it's like old women [TS]

  and guys and motorcycle outfits and they [TS]

  grabbed him and suck your blood like oh [TS]

  that's much worse than you know [TS]

  chameleons yeah check out last tango in [TS]

  halifax if you want to see what she's [TS]

  doing now [TS]

  cool she's great one of the reasons that [TS]

  I'm suggesting that is that it's got [TS]

  it's sort of proto doctor who and if in [TS]

  the person watching it is going to know [TS]

  if the rest of the show is for them or [TS]

  not because they can either deal with [TS]

  the hospital on the moon or they can it [TS]

  right and it's it's I mean it's [TS]

  constructed as I I think Russell T Davis [TS]

  get a lot of thought to these [TS]

  introductory episodes and and viewed [TS]

  them as being landing point starting off [TS]

  points44 new viewers and actually one of [TS]

  the nice things about Smith and Jones to [TS]

  is that the the time travel element [TS]

  doesn't isn't there to complicate things [TS]

  in fact it's only there in a gag which [TS]

  is a smart gag because it shows that he [TS]

  does have a time machine but it's not [TS]

  the point of the episode it doesn't get [TS]

  all twisted around it's just he goes [TS]

  back and takes off his tie and and [TS]

  proves that he has a time machine and [TS]

  and so it doesn't over it doesn't throw [TS]

  too much in the bin [TS]

  it's like a little wild adventure where [TS]

  she Martha proves her Worth and you know [TS]

  the doctor saves the day and there's [TS]

  some weird aliens and you don't need to [TS]

  know any continuity and that's it that's [TS]

  a good one that's a good one [TS]

  yeah I can see that because it's also [TS]

  more earth is a very different you know [TS]

  Martha as a character I I I never fell [TS]

  in love with Martha but I appreciated [TS]

  her and I appreciate when she came back [TS]

  as well because she's that she's a [TS]

  professional she's very different [TS]

  she's got a firm point your life she's a [TS]

  doctor about to become a doctor and then [TS]

  becomes doctor [TS]

  and her expertise is useful and also her [TS]

  you know she's much more of an immediate [TS]

  equal especially the modern series and [TS]

  so uh for people who are thinking oh [TS]

  this is about pretty women who are [TS]

  helpless which the show isn't about [TS]

  anyway but it has that perception of me [TS]

  find this young woman like Rose the bit [TS]

  more the best lines in the whole reboot [TS]

  is when Sarah Jane in in school reunion [TS]

  when she says she says oh you know you [TS]

  keep getting that younger and so today [TS]

  or something like hammer the exact line [TS]

  right and it's like all want to burn [TS]

  through and she's got blue and you're [TS]

  like and that and that's realize like [TS]

  what the shows that the graphics are [TS]

  about televisions changed to so so yeah [TS]

  I think I think dr. Smith is a good [TS]

  place to come in other are there other [TS]

  individual episodes which you [TS]

  cherry-pick or would you just go for [TS]

  would you go for you know you need to [TS]

  really watch this and take the ride and [TS]

  watching season cuz it's really hard [TS]

  because all these seasons i can look at [TS]

  the list here and think oh man you know [TS]

  yeah that that's what we'll start with [TS]

  Christmas invasion point that Cyberman [TS]

  to partner is really not good or I look [TS]

  at the Martha season I think all the [TS]

  Dalek to put those two partners in the [TS]

  middle boy [TS]

  oh that's rough stuff right so you can't [TS]

  you can't unless you're making a [TS]

  playlist for them literally you have to [TS]

  either choose to expose them to some [TS]

  good episodes or just chuck them in a [TS]

  starting point and say write it out you [TS]

  know there's gonna be good and bad it's [TS]

  a TV show it's got good and bad but i'm [TS]

  just wondering about the idea the [TS]

  intelligence of of the strategy of [TS]

  cherry-picking and saying when you watch [TS]

  blink why don't you watch the girl in [TS]

  the fireplace except not Erica what [TS]

  no wonder why don't you watch I don't [TS]

  know the father's day planet of the food [TS]

  i would call out i know it's a weird one [TS]

  but planet viewed it takes place [TS]

  somewhere else they don't travel i know [TS]

  it doesn't get the time there this you [TS]

  know space and time thing as much but it [TS]

  brings up a lot of ethical issues [TS]

  there's a giant throbbing brain there's [TS]

  you know some like a mystery there's [TS]

  things going totally arriving this like [TS]

  it's a lot of running around it's always [TS]

  good but it's on it's got a great [TS]

  surprise reveal at the end and it's even [TS]

  gotten catherine tate Donna has to [TS]

  confront the fact that there's all this [TS]

  suffering and the doctor season as [TS]

  Israel to run toward suffering to help [TS]

  those whatever and when he gives her [TS]

  that telepathic link so that she can [TS]

  hear the birds singing and she's like I [TS]

  need to go home I can't deal with this [TS]

  and then the coming around by the end [TS]

  she realizes how important it is and how [TS]

  she needs to be there like as a single [TS]

  episode I don't know if you would know [TS]

  enough to watch it but I think it's got [TS]

  a free-standing arc that doesn't involve [TS]

  say all the time lords in the history [TS]

  and the time or it's really about the [TS]

  food and and empathy time to take a [TS]

  brief break to tell you about ourselves [TS]

  we don't have a sponsor this week so [TS]

  instead i want to tell you a little bit [TS]

  about what's going on the uncomfortable [TS]

  first off if you haven't listened to [TS]

  random track the new podcast hosted by [TS]

  our very own Scott McNulty check it out [TS]

  the incomparable dot-com / random track [TS]

  we've got episodes up there with guests [TS]

  such as is too jaan Steve let's John [TS]

  molds Greg moss Dave chalo serenity [TS]

  Caldwell Dan Morgan and me also total [TS]

  party kill our Dungeons and Dragons [TS]

  podcast is back for a new season we've [TS]

  got a new cast of characters that [TS]

  started a couple of weeks ago if you'd [TS]

  like to listen two friends play Dungeons [TS]

  and Dragons on the internet for your [TS]

  amusement the incomparable calm / tpk [TS]

  for total party kill Lex Friedman and a [TS]

  mourner still watching movies that they [TS]

  haven't seen before that are classics [TS]

  yet they haven't seen them on not [TS]

  playing you can get that at the [TS]

  uncomfortable calm / not playing and [TS]

  that's about it for now i only had one [TS]

  other note which is some of you who [TS]

  subscribed to the incomparable plus [TS]

  after dark feed on five-by-five may have [TS]

  discovered that you no longer have after [TS]

  dark sore as we call them that bonus [TS]

  tracks in your podcast feed you got [TS]

  transferred to the wrong feet if you go [TS]

  to the website you can resubscribe by [TS]

  itunes there are a lot of ways to do it [TS]

  but incomparable plus bonus track is [TS]

  available if you want to get back on the [TS]

  crazy extras route in addition to the [TS]

  regular episodes and while you're there [TS]

  at the incomparable comm check out our [TS]

  master feed it's also on itunes will get [TS]

  you everything we do in one feed thanks [TS]

  for listening and thanks to myself for [TS]

  sponsoring being comfortable before we [TS]

  we shift gears to talk about Russell T [TS]

  Davis more [TS]

  specifically I wanted to ask this [TS]

  question which is if somebody says I'm [TS]

  I've watched the new series and I like [TS]

  it but I'm curious about the fact that [TS]

  it I there's still this history that i [TS]

  know nothing about before 2005 what [TS]

  should I you know i'm i'm intrigued [TS]

  about going back behind that wall that [TS]

  behind which we don't speak of what is [TS]

  back there [TS]

  what would you tell them where we how [TS]

  would you point somebody at the classic [TS]

  series if they were in you know curious [TS]

  about about that and they know about the [TS]

  current series [TS]

  what do you say who i have a perfect [TS]

  answer for this actually a a good friend [TS]

  of chips in mind Eric stagnant who is on [TS]

  the doctor who the writers room and [TS]

  Doctor Who book club podcast he wrote [TS]

  back in 2012 blog post called an open [TS]

  letter and it sort of aimed it at new [TS]

  doctor who fans who are going to [TS]

  conventions for the first time and who [TS]

  want to be able to at least understand a [TS]

  little bit of the background of doctor [TS]

  who and he listed a bunch just in order [TS]

  of transmission I can remember exactly [TS]

  how many have some something like a [TS]

  dozen maybe slightly more episodes or [TS]

  stories from the classic series and [TS]

  reasons why they are sort of important [TS]

  within the canon of Doctor Who and [TS]

  slight descriptions of them so i would [TS]

  point people at that and just say you [TS]

  know read through these see which ones [TS]

  seem to strike your fancy and maybe try [TS]

  one of those because they really are a [TS]

  good selection of of episodes that are I [TS]

  don't know how important is exactly the [TS]

  right word but they're ones that are [TS]

  well enough known that that they they [TS]

  stuck in that the Doctor Who [TS]

  consciousness over the years and other [TS]

  kinds of things that you should be able [TS]

  to the most classic fans will have have [TS]

  seen and remember enough to to converse [TS]

  with you about so that's where i would [TS]

  tell people to start [TS]

  yeah it's it really is sort of the [TS]

  cannon in the proper sense like you know [TS]

  the the most important books out of the [TS]

  out of the whole library that are the [TS]

  touchpoints you don't have to go to the [TS]

  power of coal but you do have to go to [TS]

  city of death that sort of thing and [TS]

  it's also you know my go-to episode of [TS]

  classic doctor who is always [TS]

  remembrance of the Daleks which is a [TS]

  Sylvester McCoy episode the first full [TS]

  episode where Sophie altered disease is [TS]

  the companion i love that episode but i [TS]

  love it kinda for the wrong reason [TS]

  because it is one of the episodes that [TS]

  holds up the best as far as modern [TS]

  production styles and things like that [TS]

  it's got the pacing and the humor and [TS]

  things like that it feels it feels [TS]

  modern and most of Doctor Who from 1963 [TS]

  2 1989 is anything but modern so it's [TS]

  it's it's hard it's almost like you're [TS]

  you're taking these new fans who watched [TS]

  the new show and then you're giving them [TS]

  a history project and you can run you [TS]

  can render the same problem with the [TS]

  classic series as you do with the new [TS]

  series like something like blink is kind [TS]

  of an outlier but it's really good [TS]

  a lot of people say with a classic [TS]

  series start with something like the [TS]

  city of death which is totally yeah you [TS]

  know Douglas Adams it's got John Cleese [TS]

  in it is that you know in a cameo and it [TS]

  maybe it's not exactly the most [TS]

  representative know it's it's kind of [TS]

  brilliant but it is totally not a fit [TS]

  for the rest of the structure that when [TS]

  you're looking at that many years [TS]

  there's no such as i mean there's almost [TS]

  no such thing as something that is [TS]

  actually representative because it [TS]

  changed even more times in the new [TS]

  series has already you know city of [TS]

  death I I think about pyramids Mars is [TS]

  another one that I think of which is I [TS]

  all I mean nothing is representative but [TS]

  it's it's pretty good even now it's a [TS]

  lot of it's on film it's kind of creepy [TS]

  but it but the other problem is the [TS]

  format and people aren't used to [TS]

  watching these episodes that are you [TS]

  know or stories that are for 25 or 6 25 [TS]

  minute long episodes and they you know [TS]

  that they're long and the pacing is [TS]

  weird and it does not feel like a modern [TS]

  show cause it's very much not a modern [TS]

  show and that can be that can be a [TS]

  challenge for for everybody you know and [TS]

  then a related to that is possibly an [TS]

  even bigger challenge that both classic [TS]

  and the modern series have is that they [TS]

  are targeted at a family audience there [TS]

  are a lot of people have slightly [TS]

  advanced ages like ourselves who [TS]

  r into doctor who either because we [TS]

  discovered it when we were kids or we've [TS]

  just got that sort of childlike sense of [TS]

  wonder to borrow star trek line so [TS]

  that's to that lifestyle my childlike [TS]

  sweater [TS]

  iight yeah but that was the big problem [TS]

  when I tried to sell my brother on it [TS]

  he's into ECM to proper SF and he [TS]

  watched a couple of these before i hit [TS]

  on the fact all right that's right this [TS]

  is family television this is intended to [TS]

  be suitable for adults and kids and [TS]

  that's that is something really unique [TS]

  to british television to it's not [TS]

  something that you see a whole lot of [TS]

  here and people don't know how to handle [TS]

  it [TS]

  it's a panto tradition right it's like [TS]

  the than that that's for adults and four [TS]

  kids but adults get into it when they [TS]

  grow up they all go and they sad but no [TS]

  well you know this training long and so [TS]

  well there's just this constitute the [TS]

  BBC is a public servant that is trying [TS]

  to reach all these different audiences [TS]

  including something that the concept of [TS]

  tea time television which you know in [TS]

  American TV the the junk that littered [TS]

  four o'clock five o'clock television was [TS]

  you know is syndicated the old sitcoms [TS]

  and old reruns of Star Trek and things [TS]

  like that it was a it was not a place [TS]

  where you crafted programming it was [TS]

  just kind of the junk that went on [TS]

  before you got to the real stuff in [TS]

  primetime and and the BBC had this [TS]

  commitment historically to tea time [TS]

  programming for family and that's a very [TS]

  different thing than america i want to [TS]

  mention before we move on [TS]

  Graham Burke and Robert Smith's book [TS]

  whose 50 which erica recommended i think [TS]

  maybe even back on that episode november [TS]

  and i have read it and it is excellent [TS]

  the 50 Doctor Who stories your watch [TS]

  before you die [TS]

  not a bad thing if you're really [TS]

  interested in exploring because it has [TS]

  some new series episodes and lots of old [TS]

  series episodes and they're not all the [TS]

  essays are great and it is also funny [TS]

  because it is they're not good they're [TS]

  just once you should see and that's [TS]

  interesting an interesting take two and [TS]

  they frequently disagree [TS]

  oh yeah the merits of those episodes and [TS]

  that's really important for a fan [TS]

  exploring the show to see is that no [TS]

  there is no one episode that everybody [TS]

  hates or love it's true [TS]

  with the possible exception of the twin [TS]

  dilemma i like the 20mm up my mom likes [TS]

  the twin dilemma so there you go [TS]

  what what [TS]

  related that Cindy you know i think it's [TS]

  around my family obviously and and most [TS]

  people most right-thinking people like [TS]

  the girl in the fireplace but you know [TS]

  we all have our some people like the end [TS]

  of time acts like a time [TS]

  yeah Glenn I love ya writers so let's [TS]

  let's let's talk a little bit we know [TS]

  with that with our remaining you know [TS]

  half hour-ish about about the russell t [TS]

  davies Sarah yeah laughs yeah so [TS]

  therefore the next the next five hours i [TS]

  telephone begins now let's go to the [TS]

  tote board [TS]

  I talking talking about the the russell [TS]

  t davies here and we should start with [TS]

  the first season with christopher [TS]

  eccleston it's not exactly John [TS]

  Syracuse's style opening statement but [TS]

  Glenn said earlier that he felt like the [TS]

  Moffett area was a little bit more [TS]

  uneven as far as the writing goes I [TS]

  think it's worth noting before we start [TS]

  talking about the rtd era that I from [TS]

  from what we can tell Artie really had a [TS]

  very heavy hand in the scripting of [TS]

  pretty much every single episode of step [TS]

  with the Moffett episodes i guess for [TS]

  Mother's written into his contract that [TS]

  he didn't get rewritten so much so i [TS]

  think i think you really do sort of see [TS]

  the auteur touch to this entire run of [TS]

  our td's because he was I mean fan [TS]

  wisdom has it that there are certain [TS]

  scripts here and there that are it's not [TS]

  exactly just a page-one rewrite it sits [TS]

  like a word one rewrite that some of the [TS]

  writers head and pretty much nothing to [TS]

  do with the final product so are the [TS]

  writer's tail and I think he outright [TS]

  admits you know I'm this happened with [TS]

  with Torchwood the children of earth [TS]

  that was essentially rewritten most of [TS]

  it sounds like from the scripts that [TS]

  came in I mean that wasn't a doctor who [TS]

  and then those later David Tennant [TS]

  specials that have a co-writer bylines [TS]

  it's like a sort of admitting that I'm [TS]

  gonna have a writer do the initial work [TS]

  and then I'm going to come in [TS]

  I mean he was they were defining what I [TS]

  said they were figuring out how to make [TS]

  the show I think one of the things was [TS]

  also figuring out a very American [TS]

  concept for television which is the [TS]

  showrunner which didn't really exist on [TS]

  these BBC shows it was really much like [TS]

  the whole season was written by one [TS]

  person or people would come and they [TS]

  would write episodes but with russell [TS]

  davis heat the way he defined it was i'm [TS]

  going to get these writers to write the [TS]

  scripts but then the the final pass to [TS]

  make it all consistent is going to be me [TS]

  and he did by all accounts with it with [TS]

  everybody except except Steven Moffat [TS]

  and I think you know that was that was [TS]

  it hehe this was his job he fell to make [TS]

  the show consistent and exactly what he [TS]

  wanted to be was to do that you know it [TS]

  was always going to be his last stamp on [TS]

  it before it just saw you know shooting [TS]

  there's a lot of joss whedon's Buffy DNA [TS]

  and his doctor who look at Rose I mean I [TS]

  Rose is is an uneven episode their [TS]

  moments where I feel like I'm watching [TS]

  an episode of Power Rangers where the [TS]

  music is bizarre and there's the thing [TS]

  with the hand that's floating in the air [TS]

  that they're wrestling with and the [TS]

  trash bin and the plastic Mickey and it [TS]

  should have Rose doesn't notice okay um [TS]

  unless it's eastenders also in the [TS]

  middle there too they should have [TS]

  brought another shows [TS]

  yes so it's it's got problems but at the [TS]

  same time it's so clear the UH of the [TS]

  intentions that he's got a buffy DNA and [TS]

  as buffy is my favorite show of all time [TS]

  I you know I can feel it and it's one of [TS]

  Russell takes his favorite shows that [TS]

  like roses got that her Buffy moment at [TS]

  the end where she where she wrote swings [TS]

  on the rope and kicks the thought on [TS]

  into the into the pit and and you know [TS]

  you did that it's about family and that [TS]

  we meet roses mother and her boyfriend [TS]

  and that it's a show about what happens [TS]

  if you're if you're the companion and [TS]

  you meet the doctor and you go away with [TS]

  him and what what are all the [TS]

  ramifications of that just so system [TS]

  modern take on it that's their from [TS]

  episode one even though there are lots [TS]

  of issues where they didn't have the [TS]

  tone right and i think they didn't know [TS]

  how to do the effects and they didn't [TS]

  know how to shoot in way late and over [TS]

  budget and all these problems but i do [TS]

  think that the core Russell Davis knew [TS]

  what he wanted to get to it just took [TS]

  some time to figure out figure out how [TS]

  to get there [TS]

  well I I'd like to speak and offensive [TS]

  or defensive i guess we're not defending [TS]

  defend the indefensible syriza but I [TS]

  think I i think it's a think it's a [TS]

  great run [TS]

  however uneven it is and how much [TS]

  they're getting their feet settled [TS]

  there's it's got so many brilliant [TS]

  moments across this so even episodes [TS]

  that don't work I think like the Dalek [TS]

  episode is very all the other bringing [TS]

  them back with this part of that [TS]

  I think there's so many aspects in this [TS]

  series in which you see the seeds of [TS]

  what he obviously was thinking about [TS]

  having read the writers tail he did not [TS]

  have planned out like there's a lot of [TS]

  turning in his head he did not have arcs [TS]

  written on balls that no one ever saw [TS]

  there's a lot of stuff that was going on [TS]

  that man's very very very busy and [TS]

  overworked underslept over cigarette in [TS]

  mind but like the Ark of bad wolf and [TS]

  season one I think is wonderful i [TS]

  actually regularly watch just the end of [TS]

  the parts of parting of the ways for [TS]

  that bit in the fact that he created [TS]

  such a strong resonance of that are you [TS]

  go back and you watch like oh he built [TS]

  the set but that's the joss whedon [TS]

  effect two hehe that's the joss whedon [TS]

  idea of building it in and having it [TS]

  come to an end and not end on a [TS]

  cliffhanger was totally the model the [TS]

  first season of buffy is in in some ways [TS]

  I think the model for the first season [TS]

  of the of the new series yet because the [TS]

  whole thing right the end of end of it [TS]

  was tough season one the whole thing [TS]

  collapses may have to find a new sort of [TS]

  new villain and there's echoes later [TS]

  seasons right and so I think they I [TS]

  think he built a terrific are can I [TS]

  think he built the template for the [TS]

  seasons that followed I don't think if i [TS]

  remember right they didn't know that [TS]

  Ecclestone was gonna leave he decided to [TS]

  leave once it came out who's going to so [TS]

  he was was he originally committed they [TS]

  thought that happen for more than the [TS]

  first seems like maybe that's too inside [TS]

  baseball I don't know [TS]

  yeah i think it's i think at some point [TS]

  during the filming knew he was leaving [TS]

  for days it was four days after the [TS]

  first episode started that it was [TS]

  announced to the public [TS]

  oh yeah he was Pippin was pissed because [TS]

  I know you're right yeah they're angry [TS]

  but but I think I mean I just think [TS]

  there's all the elements in there is [TS]

  like the fact that you start you find [TS]

  out he's the last of the Time Lords [TS]

  you're like okay wow this is new this is [TS]

  different it's on what we don't have the [TS]

  trials of the time lords and taylor [TS]

  showing off and disappearing the whole [TS]

  thing the end of the world is a totally [TS]

  different tone and he puts his companion [TS]

  immediately in danger he feels [TS]

  responsible for any screws up getting [TS]

  her back at the right moment to other [TS]

  ways the end of the world as it isn't [TS]

  that the epicenter of an event of the [TS]

  world he brings her back and she's been [TS]

  gone for a year mother's freaked out at [TS]

  the beginning of the of the farting [TS]

  alien two-parter actual one so that's [TS]

  the aliens of london right so but i just [TS]

  thought [TS]

  the idea of bringing historical [TS]

  characters and which happened a lot [TS]

  after that we get in first with the with [TS]

  Charles Dickens is the select the [TS]

  celebrity historical as they like right [TS]

  you know we can we get a as Shakespeare [TS]

  later but in like how are we going to [TS]

  the Daleks battle Daleks with the most [TS]

  popular villain in the history of the [TS]

  series and they're gone ostensibly [TS]

  forever and they come back you get the [TS]

  sense an unquiet dead that seeds of the [TS]

  higher species the higher races were the [TS]

  ones who suffered in the time lower and [TS]

  we've been dispossessed and then that [TS]

  echo mean that comes in rows their [TS]

  echoes in unquiet dead it comes back [TS]

  again and again the father's day where [TS]

  you see that at the time was not there [TS]

  things are falling apart so I feel like [TS]

  they did a great job in building the [TS]

  world that paid off in subsequent [TS]

  seasons and there's anything again like [TS]

  there's that moment in the doctor dances [TS]

  where he says everybody lives for once [TS]

  everybody lives you're like oh this is a [TS]

  great moment for getting dr. everybody [TS]

  died like there's something i watch it [TS]

  like when I watch the when it was first [TS]

  aired and listening to him say that I'm [TS]

  like oh my god you're right and click [TS]

  practically in tears like an episode in [TS]

  which the doctor actions able finally to [TS]

  cure everybody to heal everybody that's [TS]

  the counterpoint to the classic series [TS]

  episode caves of Androzani where [TS]

  everybody except Perry dies everybody [TS]

  including the doctor even the doctor [TS]

  dies in an episode or horrifying rock [TS]

  where everybody with the doctor and [TS]

  Leela died [TS]

  oh my god yeah exactly let me jump onto [TS]

  what Clinton just said end of the world [TS]

  ends with the sound of a baby's cry when [TS]

  they win when the doctor and takes rows [TS]

  back and you don't see any of the people [TS]

  in the landscape know it for all your [TS]

  almost led to believe that they are [TS]

  going back to the dead world and then [TS]

  off-camera you hear a baby's cry and [TS]

  then you see the the hustle and bustle [TS]

  of 21st century life when I heard that [TS]

  cry [TS]

  this is the second episode of the new [TS]

  series i have been watching doctor who [TS]

  often on as a kid and I've ignored it [TS]

  during the wilderness years and I don't [TS]

  know if I'm really going to like this [TS]

  new show [TS]

  and I was emotionally moved by dr who [TS]

  and as much as I love Doctor Who when I [TS]

  was a teenager I was never emotionally [TS]

  moved by it it was it was a fun sci-fi [TS]

  story and that was completely unexpected [TS]

  it was completely Russell T Davis's [TS]

  approach to the show that he was going [TS]

  to make you care about these characters [TS]

  rather than using them as set-pieces to [TS]

  advance the plot along between that and [TS]

  everybody lives in the doctor dances [TS]

  that was when I just completely bought [TS]

  into what was going on [TS]

  fan for life started a podcast i would [TS]

  say that scene maybe that last scene of [TS]

  the end of the world [TS]

  maybe my favorite single scene in the [TS]

  new series and it's funny because that's [TS]

  an episode that is famously the most [TS]

  expensive episode that they ever did [TS]

  because it's got huge amounts of CGI [TS]

  they shot up early and i think i think [TS]

  it came in like two days before they [TS]

  erred because unless it was just an [TS]

  insane amount of of work and get that [TS]

  last scene is completely just shot on a [TS]

  street in in Wales presumably doubling [TS]

  for London and it's just a street and [TS]

  it's just the doctor and rose and she's [TS]

  in her hoodie and he tells her that all [TS]

  his people are dead and she's just seen [TS]

  the earth be destroyed and she says do [TS]

  you smell chips [TS]

  I'm and it's just bringing it back to [TS]

  you but right now it right now we're [TS]

  alive and all of us you and me and all [TS]

  of humanity and it all comes to an end [TS]

  but right now let's live and it is it [TS]

  you're right ship it is also that moment [TS]

  of spike what I didn't know the show [TS]

  could do this [TS]

  yeah and here i am kind of on once again [TS]

  on the other side of the coin but I was [TS]

  I'm you know been watching Doctor Who [TS]

  since I was five and I didn't ignore the [TS]

  show during the wilderness years I i [TS]

  rewatched all of the ones that i had [TS]

  access to and showed it to other people [TS]

  and got them on the bandwagon and so it [TS]

  was a big deal for me and when the show [TS]

  came back I was I was very much the sort [TS]

  of crusty old school girl in with it was [TS]

  not [TS]

  didn't I didn't want to open my heart to [TS]

  to a new show and I mean I i was excited [TS]

  that it was coming back but I was a [TS]

  little worried and then when I saw it it [TS]

  was very clear from the beginning that [TS]

  this is a different show one of the [TS]

  biggest differences being the show [TS]

  clearly is sort of told at the beginning [TS]

  from the point of view of the companion [TS]

  this is a show about Rose every bit as [TS]

  much as it is about the doctor if not [TS]

  more and i did not like that i've come [TS]

  to terms with it by now but at the time [TS]

  that was something that was really [TS]

  really difficult for me to switch my way [TS]

  of thinking about this showcase for me [TS]

  was really always about the doctor and [TS]

  the show did in the classic series it [TS]

  did make me feel things on a regular [TS]

  basis i was i was in passionate about [TS]

  this show so I know I cried when Adric [TS]

  died and import and multiple other times [TS]

  throughout the course of the show and I [TS]

  I was used to seeing it from that [TS]

  direction and crying about those things [TS]

  and then we came along and in here where [TS]

  we're seeing a companion and there's [TS]

  this flirtiness a little bit going on [TS]

  and it's cheeky and I just didn't know [TS]

  how to feel about it [TS]

  it is interesting that Glenn mentioned [TS]

  Dalek because I think for me that was [TS]

  the time that I was able to finally jump [TS]

  on board with that story because finally [TS]

  you're bringing back something from the [TS]

  past you've got this Dalek which [TS]

  Eccleston's performance and that is just [TS]

  out of this world [TS]

  it's so clear that there's this fraught [TS]

  background between him and this creature [TS]

  and it just and and I moment maybe I'm a [TS]

  little biased because Rob Sherman is who [TS]

  wrote it is one of my favorite people [TS]

  adore him at every convention i see and [TS]

  he gives really good hugs [TS]

  so every rush i'm not asking for a hug [TS]

  because he's excellent at it and the [TS]

  Dalek episode not only not only does it [TS]

  make that connection to the classic [TS]

  series from seen one where he sees a [TS]

  classic series Cyberman head in a glass [TS]

  case and says I'm getting old which I [TS]

  thought was wonderful but it also has [TS]

  the effect of this is the that's the [TS]

  episode where we see how how broken he [TS]

  is because of the time war [TS]

  this is where it comes out that he is [TS]

  really messed up and you know I saw it [TS]

  happen i made it happen and [TS]

  he's gonna kill the Dalek and over here [TS]

  and makes a gun and you're like the [TS]

  doctor made a gun whole ok [TS]

  no I was like yes the doctor made a gun [TS]

  he's done that so many times before [TS]

  yeah but yeah but still I don't know I [TS]

  think it's still a moment it's like [TS]

  Layton he makes weapons in different [TS]

  ways but this was a gun gun this is a [TS]

  gun gun gun it was like to blow up a [TS]

  creature that larose had learned was not [TS]

  was not the monster that he was assuming [TS]

  it was which is I think the interesting [TS]

  thing there [TS]

  I think of the new series in the new [TS]

  series they very much played up the you [TS]

  know I don't like guns I don't like [TS]

  people with guns sort of sort of thing [TS]

  which I mean they were never hinted that [TS]

  in the past there were moments and but [TS]

  there's there's a really funny supermix [TS]

  I'm youtube of of all of the times that [TS]

  you see the doctor holding weapons and [TS]

  sometimes they are gun so it's pretty [TS]

  funny i would argue in fact that the new [TS]

  series has been exactly as consistent as [TS]

  the classic series in him talking about [TS]

  how how he's a pacifist and how guns are [TS]

  terrible and all that while also with [TS]

  blowing things up if he needs to that's [TS]

  chest [TS]

  dr. that's what the Dalek episode when [TS]

  Debra Davros accused them says you've [TS]

  turned all these you're not you're the [TS]

  great one but you turned all your [TS]

  friends and weapons the doctors like [TS]

  burnt huh I guess you got me there [TS]

  because i have they're all got they got [TS]

  the osterhagen key and yeah okay maybe [TS]

  so [TS]

  so this season also brings us the empty [TS]

  child in the doctor dances which is a [TS]

  fantastic to partner which I like a lot [TS]

  which is steven moffat its first piece [TS]

  on the new series father's day Paul [TS]

  Cornell story which is i just watched [TS]

  these back not too long ago with my [TS]

  family and and I father's day always [TS]

  takes me by surprise because it's it's [TS]

  it it it's got some silly strange things [TS]

  in it but it is you know the emotional [TS]

  core is what's important [TS]

  amazing her father comes back again that [TS]

  actor was terrific he did a great job [TS]

  when he comes back and it's a real [TS]

  family thing about Jackie's a pain the [TS]

  mother but that you know it's real [TS]

  family stuff and then he comes back [TS]

  again and again because he's really [TS]

  fills its really strong role in the [TS]

  series until until roses gone anything [TS]

  more we should say about the Christopher [TS]

  Eccleston's season before we move on I [TS]

  would also like to give our TV some more [TS]

  points for the arc that Glenn was [TS]

  talking about you guys mentioned that [TS]

  the bad wolf park [TS]

  I [TS]

  I'm a sucker for an arc season 16 of [TS]

  Doctor Who the key to time season is my [TS]

  all-time favorite and that is that's my [TS]

  favorite kind of arc where you get look [TS]

  you know there's a tiny little bit in [TS]

  each episode but each episode is still [TS]

  its own standalone monster-of-the-week [TS]

  kind of thing so it's not our dependent [TS]

  i mean i don't wanna compare to moffitt [TS]

  too much but you know you get more of an [TS]

  arcing like season five and you know [TS]

  that's that's all well and good but but [TS]

  the the stuff that the best for me are [TS]

  the ones where you can have your own [TS]

  standalone episodes and then get little [TS]

  bits they're sort of hints or teased in [TS]

  so I I really did like the way the bad [TS]

  wolf park played out even if I'm you [TS]

  know wasn't the biggest rose fan seeing [TS]

  you know all of revolve around her [TS]

  well he still did it well i'm reminded [TS]

  of that when we just watched my family [TS]

  and I were we're making our way forward [TS]

  and we just watched the silurian [TS]

  two-parter from the first season of matt [TS]

  smith and it a short version is much [TS]

  better than I remember it so i'll give [TS]

  it that but literally at the very end in [TS]

  the last five minutes the the if you can [TS]

  see the script paused for two minutes of [TS]

  Arc related material and then [TS]

  immediately press play again as if those [TS]

  two minutes didn't happen because it was [TS]

  obviously inserted into the script to [TS]

  further the ark and it reminded me that [TS]

  you know Russell Davis with his light [TS]

  touch on these scripts it's not until [TS]

  boomtown that anybody comments on the [TS]

  fact that they keep seeing bad wolf [TS]

  so it's not until the penultimate [TS]

  episode up until that point as a viewer [TS]

  you're like bad wolf we keep seeing that [TS]

  he and you start being like a hoe I [TS]

  spotted this week's bad wolf but it's [TS]

  not taking over the show until until he [TS]

  finally sees the Blythe druke project [TS]

  and goes wait a second now and peppering [TS]

  we should point out that this is the [TS]

  where we get not just captain jakarta [TS]

  happiness but I'm we get they must be [TS]

  Giants only Captain Jack Harkness [TS]

  Captain Jack Harkness you got it I got [TS]

  his name right [TS]

  I camry it so captain jack arises and we [TS]

  start to get the themes like the whole [TS]

  thing about well you know the future [TS]

  flexible you know I want to kiss him on [TS]

  kiss her and I think there's it's great [TS]

  because in that place through the rest [TS]

  of the season is that there is no [TS]

  or so gender & orientation availability [TS]

  in the show in the West before in sand [TS]

  you know I don't think it was perfect [TS]

  but that it's not new to science fiction [TS]

  either but it's needed to Doctor Who and [TS]

  and it brought it to a broad audience in [TS]

  the UK and then later to a broader [TS]

  audience in the u.s. normalizing [TS]

  something that is normal for ppl true as [TS]

  i have not I have not read a raiders [TS]

  tail I just know a lot of its I've heard [TS]

  interviews about it heard people talk [TS]

  about it how much of that you know [TS]

  Captain Jack comes to us in the empty [TS]

  child in the doctor dances which those [TS]

  are actually Moffat episodes and as [TS]

  we've said Moffat episodes did not get [TS]

  heavily rewritten by rtd so does anybody [TS]

  know how much rtd had to do with the [TS]

  creation of that character I mean I'm [TS]

  certain he had quite a bit to do with it [TS]

  and my understanding is that he gave [TS]

  Moffat the broad pretty detailed brief [TS]

  and that bitch Captain Jack was built [TS]

  into the back half of the season right [TS]

  from the beginning so I don't think [TS]

  although Moffat wrote the episodes that [TS]

  introduced him i don't think that you [TS]

  could say that Moffat created the [TS]

  character which is on which is unusual [TS]

  for before british television because [TS]

  frequently you know the first the first [TS]

  time the character appears is the the [TS]

  writer of the episode was responsible [TS]

  and considered the Creator it's funny as [TS]

  we move on to to to the david tennant [TS]

  era wait I what I notice is you know [TS]

  they liked it they do like to give the [TS]

  creator's credit when when when a [TS]

  monster recursive let's say and one of [TS]

  the things that amuses me is that when [TS]

  the you would appear in them in the [TS]

  Steven Moffat era there's a credit that [TS]

  says food created by Russell to davis [TS]

  which really amuses me because the [TS]

  episodes the you were introduced in not [TS]

  credited to Russell T Davis but it is [TS]

  like it's just at acid admittance that [TS]

  he created that he created them he said [TS]

  we'll call it the food i wanted to be [TS]

  kind of octopus face and I rewrote the [TS]

  script anyway writing a possible plan so [TS]

  it's just it's funny it's like this this [TS]

  announcement [TS]

  nothing nothing special about it except [TS]

  that it totally means it was him even [TS]

  though technically matt jones created [TS]

  the food right but he didn't he didn't [TS]

  with President Davis that's who did it [TS]

  that's why would David Tennant let's [TS]

  talk about good old girl david ensor [TS]

  crystal actor christopher eccleston does [TS]

  a year does a good job I sounds like [TS]

  it's a combination of him you know not [TS]

  necessarily want to commit to any job [TS]

  for a very long period of time and it [TS]

  sounds like the way that that first [TS]

  season was produced was really trying on [TS]

  everybody and that he decided at some [TS]

  point that he didn't want to be a part [TS]

  of it anymore and I don't know if we'll [TS]

  ever know more detailed and then about [TS]

  that but but [TS]

  so he leaves and they should they shoot [TS]

  very late they shoot a scene with david [TS]

  tennant just regenerate post [TS]

  regeneration that will get them in the [TS]

  inn that the parting of the ways that [TS]

  will get them through to the to the [TS]

  Christmas special and so here the show [TS]

  has been a success they immediately have [TS]

  to change the leading man welcome to [TS]

  Doctor Who everybody this is what [TS]

  happens and we get David David Tennant [TS]

  who who stays for three full series and [TS]

  three different companions and is in [TS]

  many people's minds their you know their [TS]

  doctor and a level that I i think when [TS]

  the new series came back nobody kind of [TS]

  anticipated that this sort of thing [TS]

  would happen where he he he really ruled [TS]

  it for a long time and stuck in the [TS]

  minds of a lot of a lot of fans [TS]

  yeah and remarkably enough eat up until [TS]

  very very recently he was still [TS]

  considered in several fan polls and [TS]

  general public polls in Britain he was [TS]

  considered the most popular dr. even [TS]

  though he'd been gone for three years [TS]

  and matt smith was absolutely killing it [TS]

  as a perfect as a performer but there is [TS]

  something about the the skinny handsome [TS]

  geek chic guy that struck court it was [TS]

  there something like that will be the [TS]

  first to admit it's my love for David [TS]

  Tennant's run that he did not have a [TS]

  mini facial expressions and he pulled [TS]

  out a number for that the teeth bared [TS]

  slightly angry while you know slightly [TS]

  wide eyed thing you saw a lot of it but [TS]

  um but it's interesting [TS]

  whatever this thing years ago there was [TS]

  this comparison about Tom Hanks and his [TS]

  co-star in the a [TS]

  the the meg ryan helmet meg Ryan see my [TS]

  brain my brain wears this two [TS]

  consecutive episodes that have made [TS]

  reference to sleepless in seattle / [TS]

  you've got mail to 22 consecutive [TS]

  episodes telling me something [TS]

  The New Yorker wrote this piece about [TS]

  them where it was sort of pre was like [TS]

  times like Tom Hanks made five terrible [TS]

  movies and in five ones that all gross [TS]

  bazillion dollars and but it was [TS]

  comparing the fact that you can look at [TS]

  him and his face barely does anything [TS]

  and you know what's going on inside and [TS]

  meg Ryan had all this business was [TS]

  describing the amount of business her [TS]

  face did your hand like the the business [TS]

  that she did to convey emotion in like [TS]

  similar scenes or cut back and forth and [TS]

  I feel like I gave a tent does not have [TS]

  a ton of facial expressions but that's [TS]

  an incredible amount of capital that [TS]

  Emma Thompson same thing at the Thompson [TS]

  does not have many facial expressions [TS]

  that she's one of my favorite actresses [TS]

  but she does at times seem to have an [TS]

  entirely mobile face yet convey this [TS]

  entire range of sophistication something [TS]

  out a glance with her face not moving [TS]

  about a scene so David Tennant awkward [TS]

  RQ some people get hung up on that like [TS]

  he has three expressions like okay but [TS]

  he has no vocal town and body and [TS]

  whatever in the UK so I want to dangle [TS]

  some red meat in front of America [TS]

  because obviously because position when [TS]

  you talk when you think about david [TS]

  tennant one word immediately comes to [TS]

  mind and I don't think it's a word that [TS]

  a lot of classic oriented doctor who [TS]

  fans like to affiliate with their doctor [TS]

  and that is cool [TS]

  david tennant is cool in a way that no [TS]

  doctor I think had really been cool [TS]

  which is to say i'm up just cool that's [TS]

  the only word I can come up with [TS]

  I don't think anybody was cool until job [TS]

  but jon pertwee david tennant are like [TS]

  the too-cool doctors i can think of the [TS]

  I always thought I was that peter [TS]

  davison was cool so maybe that's just me [TS]

  being weird but I i just saw a kind of a [TS]

  direct line connecting those two he's [TS]

  kissed very quick he's quirky he's cool [TS]

  a in a the guy wearing the wrong sort of [TS]

  clothes and not noticing cool with a [TS]

  geek the geek chic thing works really [TS]

  well on David Tennant and it helps the [TS]

  david tennant you know and they did [TS]

  again in time a good choices made by the [TS]

  production team I mean the suit with the [TS]

  with the trainers so that this you know [TS]

  and good casting dividend also david [TS]

  tennant being a very serious doctor who [TS]

  fan cast as the doctor get kind of gets [TS]

  what the part is I felt like there was [TS]

  also that he was you know he was he tall [TS]

  it always felt kind of iconic to me he [TS]

  always felt like this is going to be the [TS]

  Tom Baker of of the new series where [TS]

  we're going to go back and they're going [TS]

  to be people who love all the doctors [TS]

  but there were going to go back and be [TS]

  like remember David Tennant that suit [TS]

  like its it felt like like a an iconic [TS]

  performance from a good actor with with [TS]

  with good scripts and it was with prefer [TS]

  are constantly doing here I feel like it [TS]

  was like exactly what the show needed [TS]

  because you couldn't really it all of [TS]

  that goodwill that had been built up in [TS]

  that first year could have really kind [TS]

  of falling apart if there had been [TS]

  another quick change or if the casting [TS]

  decision had been different and instead [TS]

  I I get the feeling actually that that [TS]

  david tennant was on just as I feel like [TS]

  Peter Capaldi was on Steven Moffat slist [TS]

  and then he cast matt smith i get the [TS]

  feeling that David was probably on [TS]

  Russell T Davis's list and then cast [TS]

  christopher eccleston and then kept him [TS]

  in the back pocket for for later they [TS]

  did a good a good bit there there which [TS]

  was they explain later and I think it's [TS]

  a reasonable explanation inside that [TS]

  universe that's like Rose when you met [TS]

  me I was like this guy was born out of [TS]

  war is angry and you calmed me right and [TS]

  that's how he then when he then the [TS]

  ecclestone dr. becomes the Tenth Doctor [TS]

  tensing he was born he was regenerated a [TS]

  point in which you sort of healed and he [TS]

  comes band that then they tie that back [TS]

  into later with our more recent things [TS]

  with bringing back my names of all [TS]

  fallin on my head [TS]

  the day of the doctor why can't I [TS]

  remember his name we all know him [TS]

  david tennant Matt Smith John Hurt know [TS]

  that good before John Hurt the money [TS]

  turns from home again home again thank [TS]

  you my god my people night of the doctor [TS]

  started the doctor you have that [TS]

  recurrence but they're like oh well you [TS]

  can be there can be these different [TS]

  kinds of regeneration and they say [TS]

  explicitly I think introduced into the [TS]

  cannon but that's sort of what tenant [TS]

  was saying and I think they use that [TS]

  transition to say here's a different [TS]

  kind of doctor but then [TS]

  sort of retcon explain it in a way [TS]

  that's plausible to think the reason is [TS]

  different as he didn't just kill [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  he's one step removed and then you get [TS]

  that again later as you come back to you [TS]

  know this recent specials you get that [TS]

  the echo again like I was one step away [TS]

  i counted and then that's the saying i [TS]

  forgot you know how many times you know [TS]

  in our november episode by the way which [TS]

  was I think we recorded literally the [TS]

  day before that Paul McGann special got [TS]

  dropped on the Internet [TS]

  Glenn Glenn Glenn predicted that Paul [TS]

  McGann would be in the 50th anniversary [TS]

  special and I said absolutely not and [TS]

  you know what we were both kind of right [TS]

  because he's not in the 50th special but [TS]

  he was there I open that episode with [TS]

  the joke please state the nature of your [TS]

  medical emergency and then the special [TS]

  or the little thing started with a [TS]

  doctor program asking what the emergency [TS]

  was so Josh clan who do who don't you [TS]

  know the future i know the future Jason [TS]

  you have it has he ever hugged Rob [TS]

  Sherman that's all I guess I'm going to [TS]

  Gallifrey one to get canceled maybe [TS]

  maybe Rob run don't go don't come this [TS]

  year run otherwise you'll be glend [TS]

  forever [TS]

  Oh once you're in glens glaring database [TS]

  you can never escape my face just turned [TS]

  into a skull and back again [TS]

  yeah mmm so-so because we are not going [TS]

  to go on for five hours i wanna i want [TS]

  to sort of step through the seasons and [TS]

  get some thoughts about sort of a [TS]

  particularly high points and if you want [TS]

  to mention a low point to for each each [TS]

  season that would be good so let's start [TS]

  with david tennant first season series [TS]

  too i will just say i love the girl in [TS]

  the fireplace [TS]

  I'm a softy i think that is a wonderful [TS]

  episode that plays with time and in a [TS]

  lot of really interesting ways it is [TS]

  funny that Steven Moffat ransacked it [TS]

  for river song later but I think as a [TS]

  standalone episode it's it's uh it hits [TS]

  me in all the right places and I [TS]

  actually also love the impossible planet [TS]

  satan pit episode i think it's really [TS]

  awesome and dark and weird and the you [TS]

  too great and almost everybody dies and [TS]

  it's got that great claustrophobic base [TS]

  under siege so that's those are my those [TS]

  are my my high points i think my low [TS]

  point sphere her which is a really bad [TS]

  with of [TS]

  process where I've actually never [TS]

  watched it that's the 1i tried to watch [TS]

  it three times i gave up Erica what are [TS]

  your highs and lows from season to my [TS]

  high is absolutely school reunion [TS]

  because so good [TS]

  Jared I've been a surgeon fan since I [TS]

  was five years old so it was just that [TS]

  episode did everything to me emotionally [TS]

  that it was supposed to but the only [TS]

  problem I sort of have with it now is [TS]

  just the fact that they named the way [TS]

  that she speaks to the doctor makes it [TS]

  look like she's been pining away her [TS]

  whole life and I don't like that thought [TS]

  but then the sarah jane that we see in [TS]

  the sarah jane adventures at there's [TS]

  there's no heat of that so i have read [TS]

  conduct my head to be that she was just [TS]

  trying to kill him because that was a [TS]

  really crappy thing with of him to do I [TS]

  look [TS]

  look [TS]

  the idea that she thought he was going [TS]

  to come back and he just never did and [TS]

  I'm fine with anger but I'm not fine [TS]

  with the I've been waiting around for [TS]

  you my whole life line that that maybe a [TS]

  little iffy Milo i think and i have to [TS]

  admit i have not gone back and watched [TS]

  it since it aired but I really did not [TS]

  like love and monsters and i know that's [TS]

  a very divisive divisive story at the [TS]

  app is really polarizing and I don't [TS]

  think for her is that bad I am fine with [TS]

  fear i watch it again it i think it is [TS]

  love and monsters [TS]

  yeah I think fans don't like it for a [TS]

  couple reasons one is that it is [TS]

  completely off format and does not take [TS]

  the format of the show very seriously on [TS]

  another level it is Russell T Davis's [TS]

  comment about fandom and I think for [TS]

  some people they took it personally [TS]

  although i think it's done with love and [TS]

  monsters hit it is it is it is perhaps [TS]

  the weirdest episode of doctor who ever [TS]

  but I kind of let I kinda like it [TS]

  any doctor who joked that and/or any [TS]

  Doctor Who story that ends with a [TS]

  fellatio joke that's just not okay for [TS]

  me this is tee time television i agree [TS]

  about that i agree about that i think [TS]

  that was out of place yeah i watch the [TS]

  in my mouth dropped i showed my wife was [TS]

  not a doctor who fan i said are they say [TS]

  what I think they're saying she's like [TS]

  yeah like low-key that was i would say [TS]

  unfortunate in what otherwise I actually [TS]

  kind of enjoy an episode that's so [TS]

  strange and so outside it literally is [TS]

  what how do other people view the doctor [TS]

  is also the great joke about claw claw [TS]

  where you from klom from klom i have [TS]

  Terry I've terrible eczema is that like [TS]

  eczema [TS]

  no it's much worse it's exuma anyway I [TS]

  have eczema it's terrible chip what it [TS]

  what are your highs and lows [TS]

  I love it when Doctor Who experiments [TS]

  with the format and love and monsters [TS]

  tries and succeeds well enough until it [TS]

  makes those sort of crafts turns to it [TS]

  but that's a the last five minutes are [TS]

  not good yeah yeah it's it's a failure [TS]

  of execution not of concept I feel the [TS]

  same way about another device of episode [TS]

  the post Russell T Davis rings of [TS]

  akhaten which some people hate and some [TS]

  people love but I'm with I'm with Erica [TS]

  on school reunion and that is the first [TS]

  time when the show really know [TS]

  just with Daleks but just embraces the [TS]

  fact that there was this classic series [TS]

  and there what these classics get these [TS]

  classic characters were there indeed [TS]

  matter it's very it's very sentimental [TS]

  and that is that is a tool that Russell [TS]

  T Davis wields throughout all five years [TS]

  that he was on the show sentimentality [TS]

  and uh when we were talking earlier [TS]

  before Erica about whether we got [TS]

  emotionally engaged with the show I [TS]

  think that the sentimentality of Russell [TS]

  T Davis's doctor who is either a big [TS]

  turn-on or a big turn-off if you if you [TS]

  accept that if you feel like you're [TS]

  being manipulated school reunion girl in [TS]

  the fireplace up all of these all of [TS]

  these episodes really play on your [TS]

  emotional heart strings right up to the [TS]

  point when Rose falls into the void and [TS]

  it saved by her dad and the the the love [TS]

  relationship that's at a speech in the [TS]

  world the saddest speech in the world [TS]

  well the fact that Russell and that [TS]

  Russell T Davis explicitly is playing [TS]

  with a relationship between the doctor [TS]

  and a companion that can be read as [TS]

  romantic or at least as complex with [TS]

  romantic issues involved that is [TS]

  something that with the exception of the [TS]

  kissing in the palm again TV movie you [TS]

  know that's something that was also [TS]

  completely alien to the show really [TS]

  really divisive and that I think that [TS]

  but i think that more than anything else [TS]

  that marks the russell t davies Sarah [TS]

  even though steven moffat didn't abandon [TS]

  that when getting married off the doctor [TS]

  River Song [TS]

  no I think that's actually when I was [TS]

  just going to say is that I think that [TS]

  sentimentality that is the hallmark of [TS]

  the rtd era is a double-edged sword and [TS]

  I think that but both of those edges hit [TS]

  me different ways because when it was [TS]

  sentimentality aimed at the show itself [TS]

  like in school reunion when you you know [TS]

  it'sit's sentimentality for even [TS]

  something like the Daleks of the [TS]

  Cybermen where it's just sort of like [TS]

  poking at the fans that that hit me [TS]

  where I live [TS]

  and I loved it when it was [TS]

  sentimentality focused on this [TS]

  perhaps love story between the doctor [TS]

  and his companion that just that [TS]

  completely threw me out of the story and [TS]

  made me super super uncomfortable [TS]

  because I spent so much time in my head [TS]

  trying to find ways in which i could [TS]

  read it as completely platonic and it is [TS]

  possible because i think that he very [TS]

  skillfully made it not over so that the [TS]

  the shippers can can do their thing and [TS]

  be happy with it and the old school fans [TS]

  like me can see it a different way and [TS]

  it still works but i felt like i was [TS]

  doing a lot of mental gymnastics to make [TS]

  sure I kept seeing it that way and [TS]

  that's what made me uncomfortable [TS]

  yeah I do i do really like the guy i [TS]

  love i love the way this season ends I I [TS]

  the crazy idea of putting the Daleks and [TS]

  the Cybermen together in minutes late [TS]

  it's you know if you're a fan and you're [TS]

  the producer of doctor who your fan [TS]

  fiction is doctor who and that's what [TS]

  army of ghosts and doomsday I mean just [TS]

  to have the banter between his you are [TS]

  better one thing you're better at dying [TS]

  that is just amazing and the I felt like [TS]

  there was enough time spent with this [TS]

  relationship that the emotional payoff [TS]

  whether you're thinking about [TS]

  I think it's no doubt she loves him does [TS]

  he love her in the same way or not you [TS]

  can kind of argue either way but either [TS]

  way she is being torn away from him and [TS]

  he it is completely tragic either way [TS]

  and I you know that was what a wonderful [TS]

  ending in fact I would argue that as [TS]

  much as it was sort of nice to see [TS]

  Billie Piper again later that I really [TS]

  it kind of makes me mad that that this [TS]

  ending gets devalued because it is so [TS]

  heartbreaking and so brilliant and you [TS]

  know it bugs me that they kind of bread [TS]

  you didn't read comment but they like [TS]

  made it not as important later he walks [TS]

  away i think the ending the ending of [TS]

  that of the season is my favorite part [TS]

  of the season that because it was over [TS]

  but i think it's so beautifully done [TS]

  musically in spare that I'm burning the [TS]

  heart of it son to come bring my spin my [TS]

  hologram mr. yeah but the thing that [TS]

  gets me this is the problem with him [TS]

  coming in with a duplicate coming back [TS]

  later and leaving the duplicate with [TS]

  Rose all recipes like she's working to [TS]

  get back to him [TS]

  they're trying to make a reality gun to [TS]

  Center cross dimensions which turns out [TS]

  to be convenient he liked usually is [TS]

  like I'll was about to say maybe I got [TS]

  suppose you know I love you whatever is [TS]

  going to say but then he's like alright [TS]

  and then you know Donna Noble shows up [TS]

  and his world has thrown up in you know [TS]

  and he goes back into his into running [TS]

  running running and he doesn't stop and [TS]

  say maybe there's someone I mean that's [TS]

  the great moment this this is what in [TS]

  the Moffett era the role that I totally [TS]

  lost my mind if I can't remember his [TS]

  name he dies again and again and what [TS]

  roar I apparently the heat in Seattle it [TS]

  is an 90 degrees today which is the [TS]

  equivalent of a thousand degrees [TS]

  anywhere else it's always so Rory with [TS]

  Rory and Amy Rory's role is that the [TS]

  doctor says and you know in the end the [TS]

  episode of the Torah open door opens the [TS]

  next one what's the next episode again I [TS]

  for one moment [TS]

  thank you but I shit what he says is the [TS]

  whole universe important you know Marie [TS]

  says she's that important to meet the [TS]

  whole universe is not as important to me [TS]

  as pretty a me back the doctor doesn't [TS]

  have that and i think david tennant's [TS]

  are so there is dr. leaving rows behind [TS]

  and going on well the doors universe is [TS]

  closed and I guess that's it [TS]

  it happens yeah and then when he gets [TS]

  back he's like well I'm gonna leave this [TS]

  copy of myself and Donna you know I got [TS]

  your back and start out the figure out [TS]

  the medic crisis you know that kind of [TS]

  thing is like I think it does d value in [TS]

  the sense that it shows that he walks [TS]

  away again and again and again which is [TS]

  the theme you know keeps going to keep [TS]

  coming to the theme this is part of [TS]

  what's neat about her showing up rose [TS]

  showing up in the day of the doctor i [TS]

  think is astonishing because it's not [TS]

  her I loved her in that but i think the [TS]

  idea that he gets haunted by her image [TS]

  but only the one who doesn't remember [TS]

  hers who sees it i think that's almost a [TS]

  little bit of a revenge that that she [TS]

  comes back that way i forgot about [TS]

  doomsday that is another highlight for [TS]

  me that's the only episode of Doctor Who [TS]

  that I ever watched and just felt the [TS]

  presence so overwhelmed by that I had to [TS]

  immediately started over and watch it [TS]

  again I mean there was there was ugly [TS]

  ugly crying during that so yes it's it's [TS]

  it's so good that it doesn't matter if [TS]

  why you're crying also army of ghosts [TS]

  was I think relatively weak and sort of [TS]

  violets it setup right it's yeah it was [TS]

  kind of like um [TS]

  this and plastic sheeting and blue and [TS]

  then it's like doomsday is like it just [TS]

  brought it over [TS]

  yeah yeah I shall we move on let's move [TS]

  on third series highs and lows here [TS]

  Glenn you want to start with this what [TS]

  we are [TS]

  I was a I was a big fan of many episodes [TS]

  in the season i think this is a very [TS]

  strong one and the Martha season [TS]

  yeah I think she's great i call out i [TS]

  like i like Smith and Jones are talking [TS]

  about before Shakespeare code was fun [TS]

  had some good elements to it [TS]

  gridlock was meticulous but they had to [TS]

  do it because they're trying to [TS]

  establish relationship whatever the [TS]

  Daleks episodes I thought I get [TS]

  interesting but like sort of too much [TS]

  and they ended up but they're setting [TS]

  the stage for further things going on [TS]

  your highs and lows literally every [TS]

  episode trying to get with okay i'll [TS]

  give you the lowest allow experience [TS]

  which i hate it i thought that was it [TS]

  was a not-good it was bad use of [TS]

  Marcus's wonderful and I just thought it [TS]

  was boring i actually think the family [TS]

  blood might be the high i like the three [TS]

  human nature human nature less family of [TS]

  blood more especially the ending i will [TS]

  watch their some episodes that wasn't [TS]

  going to like and like and this is what [TS]

  he did to us he made us live forever [TS]

  like oh my god this is like four [TS]

  different kinds of irony each of them [TS]

  perfect so the three-part conclusion i [TS]

  think is is actually totally terrific [TS]

  but I think family blood probably the [TS]

  high point in terms of a very evidence [TS]

  the touching the watch and seeing his [TS]

  alternate future and then the variance [TS]

  really i think terrific episode chip I [TS]

  think Glenn like season three [TS]

  yeah thnkx island was good looking very [TS]

  excited there it's it's it's it's a [TS]

  pretty good season [TS]

  I like Freema Agyeman when she starts [TS]

  and then they really put the character [TS]

  into a hole with the unrequited love [TS]

  thing which which in itself is it so [TS]

  awful except that's all that they did [TS]

  with her in its it weakened her as a [TS]

  character and she doesn't really come [TS]

  back into her own until she leaves the [TS]

  series for a while and then shows back [TS]

  up in torchwood and fourth season [TS]

  well it last of the Time Lords she is [TS]

  really kind of redeem but it's all [TS]

  happened off camera off camera that's [TS]

  right and then there's a reset [TS]

  yeah and then yeah so it's not one of my [TS]

  favorite seasons even though i really [TS]

  like the actress and I think that tenant [TS]

  does a good job as usual but you know [TS]

  with this are the Shakespeare code with [TS]

  the spirit with the gratuitous JK [TS]

  Rowling references and magic spells and [TS]

  expel er miss at the end even though [TS]

  there's some brilliantly funny bits in [TS]

  it you know Shakespeare on on the make [TS]

  with everyone with everyone [TS]

  yeah love that guy is great but it's [TS]

  it's not one of my favorite seasons [TS]

  Erica I think it's funny that see the [TS]

  season three is very it's not one of my [TS]

  favorites and it is one of my favorites [TS]

  because i think the first half the first [TS]

  half is all just kind of low points for [TS]

  me I didn't like I don't like celebrity [TS]

  historical is usually something like the [TS]

  Shakespeare code I I wasn't on board [TS]

  with Martha really at first so just all [TS]

  the way up through until we get to human [TS]

  nature and then suddenly it skyrockets [TS]

  and it just blows off the charts and I'm [TS]

  a little bit of a paul cornell fan girl [TS]

  who i think i've also hugged and he just [TS]

  a human nature is I like human nature [TS]

  better than family but although I love [TS]

  them both [TS]

  I like seeing david tennant play a [TS]

  different character than the doctor [TS]

  because John Smith is a different person [TS]

  who is so clear in every way so i mean [TS]

  it's it's written accidentally from from [TS]

  hope Cornell's perspective and then it's [TS]

  played wonderfully from david tennant's [TS]

  i just it [TS]

  everything came together for me there [TS]

  and then you followed up with blink [TS]

  which let me out but as i said before is [TS]

  is wonderful and then you have utopia [TS]

  where you get to see Derek freaking [TS]

  Jacobi who is my favorite actor of all [TS]

  time playing you know the moment that I [TS]

  figured out what was about to happen [TS]

  that he was actually the master i SAT up [TS]

  on the couch and this is in a room with [TS]

  a friend who doesn't know all that much [TS]

  about Doctor Who and I just to set up on [TS]

  the couch like oh my god and I then I [TS]

  stood up and raise my hands in the air [TS]

  and he was like what on earth and it [TS]

  never mind you'll find out in a minute [TS]

  gathered in a minute [TS]

  yeah and then you have the sound of [TS]

  drums which is now click this and then [TS]

  i'll explain later [TS]

  yeah that they that utopia turn I i love [TS]

  i really like utopia it's not my high [TS]

  point of the season but i like it [TS]

  because it is two things it is for the [TS]

  first whatever 40 minutes 30 minutes [TS]

  it's like russell davis saying what is [TS]

  the most doctor who episode i could make [TS]

  it look like there's barely any others [TS]

  in the base that sort of under siege and [TS]

  there's the rocket and there's the and [TS]

  then we've got this professor and his [TS]

  companion that the doctor and his [TS]

  companion meet and actually it's dead [TS]

  the doctor and two companions because [TS]

  you have captain amagai coming back [TS]

  which is really graphic dr plus you know [TS]

  yet captain jack is back that's more eye [TS]

  candy for me a trillion years in the [TS]

  future it's the farthest they've ever go [TS]

  on the Time Lords are freaked out by it [TS]

  so 30 30 minutes that you get you get [TS]

  about about five to seven minutes of [TS]

  that wonderful conversation between [TS]

  david tennant John Barrowman where John [TS]

  Barrowman is basically behind a sheet of [TS]

  glass doing radioactive things and dying [TS]

  over and over again and they have the [TS]

  whole conversation about the Time Lords [TS]

  about him regenerating and not coming [TS]

  back for him and what happened to Rose [TS]

  and all that which is really good and [TS]

  then you get the end where we have a [TS]

  reveal of the master and all of that [TS]

  which is just the most when i watch that [TS]

  with my kids I afterward I'll i was [TS]

  saying to my wife I think that's the [TS]

  most intense seven minutes of doctor who [TS]

  ever it is like you want to scream as [TS]

  it's happening it is so because so much [TS]

  is going on the the rocket is going in [TS]

  and Martha's running and saying he's got [TS]

  the watch and-and-and chanceux and and [TS]

  the professor are having their last [TS]

  little encounter and the the future kind [TS]

  of rushing into the base and and there's [TS]

  a regeneration at me it's just edit it [TS]

  is so it is insanely intense and I do [TS]

  think that the the final two partner is [TS]

  a big letdown it's fine but it's not [TS]

  great and utopia is is I yeah it's over [TS]

  it's over looked in some ways because it [TS]

  is like three different episodes in one [TS]

  yet it is great also its Russell T Davis [TS]

  again in this series he seeded it with [TS]

  little bits and pieces I mean you see [TS]

  you see that john sims are you hear his [TS]

  his name he [TS]

  character throughout and you have no [TS]

  idea that it means anything until it [TS]

  comes together [TS]

  yeah yep Saxons even in the runaway [TS]

  bride [TS]

  there's a that that's where it starts [TS]

  and it goes throughout the whole season [TS]

  so so for me it's very hard because I [TS]

  this is a season of highs and lows for [TS]

  me I wouldn't say sort of beginning and [TS]

  I feel like the Daleks to partner is [TS]

  about as bad as doctor who has gotten in [TS]

  the modern era [TS]

  I think it's a I think it's a badly [TS]

  written badly can see could have been [TS]

  better had sort of a little gem of an [TS]

  idea and then stretched it over too many [TS]

  episodes there's too much and that [TS]

  doesn't make any sense [TS]

  even the idea of what if the Daleks had [TS]

  to like become humanoid is kind of [TS]

  booted and miss it not handled well and [TS]

  the the the the climax is ludicrous [TS]

  because it's literally like in the [TS]

  theater because i don't have any other [TS]

  sets and so of course will take over New [TS]

  York from the stage of the theater [TS]

  because Y and Lazarus experiment is not [TS]

  that much better and 42 is a boring but [TS]

  not terrible but not interesting in [TS]

  anyway it's a really deep dark hole in [TS]

  the middle of this season the human [TS]

  nature to partner is fantastic blink is [TS]

  blink it's like twilight zone level [TS]

  episode it is it is on its own outside [TS]

  of Doctor Who I think a wonderful 45 [TS]

  minutes that we talked about this before [TS]

  they plan to spend a show-off because [TS]

  it's so felt like they planned is gonna [TS]

  show up I have said this high Sparrow [TS]

  Sparrow Nightingale adventures I was so [TS]

  angry that Carey Mulligan became famous [TS]

  in store for fans because they could [TS]

  have brought her back and made her [TS]

  companion but instead she had to become [TS]

  like an Academy Award nominee so but [TS]

  I've left off and I like the Shakespeare [TS]

  code I didn't have a problem with the [TS]

  stupid things that we're going because [TS]

  it's just I I thought it was a whole lot [TS]

  of fun but i wanted to say a word about [TS]

  gridlock I think gridlock is one of the [TS]

  single best scripts i think it's maybe [TS]

  the second best if not the best script [TS]

  russell davis road for the series and i [TS]

  sit and i say that because I think he [TS]

  gets caught up in his operatic finales [TS]

  and all of these things he wants to do [TS]

  to say i want this kind of doctor who [TS]

  episode and gridlock is this strange [TS]

  one-off episode and I think it's kind of [TS]

  I think it's kind of funny and I think [TS]

  it's kind of beautiful and it's got a [TS]

  sad ending but I it feels like something [TS]

  very different and I feel like it uses [TS]

  different parts of his talent and i like [TS]

  i like it a lot and it like the end of [TS]

  the event of the world it has a [TS]

  fantastic ending where Martha basically [TS]

  says you've been lying to me you're [TS]

  gonna sit down and tell me what happened [TS]

  and meanwhile they freed the people of [TS]

  New York and I think it's I think it's [TS]

  actually a beautiful episode and also [TS]

  has kept people in it but i like and [TS]

  it's funny but i really like it a lot it [TS]

  is strange and and beautiful and I like [TS]

  it even though it's an odd choice [TS]

  it's a great episode and it also [TS]

  highlights something that not a lot of [TS]

  people pick up on with Russell T Davis [TS]

  which is he can be a real cynical guy [TS]

  sometimes even for all the operatic and [TS]

  sentimentality stuff the people and [TS]

  gridlock are trapped because they've [TS]

  been putting their hope in religious [TS]

  faith rather in rather than getting [TS]

  something done although you could argue [TS]

  that they're actually putting their hope [TS]

  in the system and the society and their [TS]

  religious faith is the only thing [TS]

  keeping them alive but but but it's [TS]

  alright yes is it is dark and weird on [TS]

  one level and yet uplifting and positive [TS]

  about humanity in another way it's very [TS]

  sweet i feel like this is I i guess i'm [TS]

  not making this as clear as I would like [TS]

  to i feel like if if Russell to Davis [TS]

  wasn't the showrunner and he was just [TS]

  brought in for a random episode I feel [TS]

  like this is the kind of thing he would [TS]

  do as opposed to as the showrunner [TS]

  feeling the burden of I've got to write [TS]

  the introduction episode and I've got to [TS]

  write the conclusion episodes and all [TS]

  that this is just the drop in and I [TS]

  think it's very cool [TS]

  so if we ever make it to season four he [TS]

  he gets another episode in just like [TS]

  that [TS]

  I know that was foreshadowing ship is [TS]

  what i was doing there when i said that [TS]

  it was like one of his two best scripts [TS]

  anyway we should talk about season 4 [TS]

  which is with donna who can we just go [TS]

  out and say Donna is great can we do [TS]

  that died is is super great super super [TS]

  great i mean in the doctor magazine poll [TS]

  of the best companions it was Sarah Jane [TS]

  one and Donna to i believe i believe [TS]

  that is correct [TS]

  so yeah she's great so great that they [TS]

  brought her back for Catherine hands [TS]

  were terrified I know about that many [TS]

  that they were mild about her [TS]

  performance in the run [TS]

  a bride they were dr. fans are always [TS]

  suspicious of comedians coming onto [TS]

  their show and and she became an [TS]

  incredibly subtle character uh and [TS]

  somebody that you just wanted a hug when [TS]

  she wasn't shouting at you have you [TS]

  hugged her i have not but i would love [TS]

  to yeah sure i would want to she said ya [TS]

  had great great character great uh after [TS]

  having rose and and Martha to have you [TS]

  know you're not meeting with me sunshine [TS]

  right [TS]

  oh that was wonderful you want to meet [TS]

  no no I want to meet you wouldn't and [TS]

  once again partners in crime is another [TS]

  one of those examples of the finely [TS]

  crafted carefully structured [TS]

  introduction episode that has that [TS]

  fantastic scene where they are between [TS]

  several panes of glass having an [TS]

  entirely mind conversation with each [TS]

  other which is hilarious and strange all [TS]

  at once that is a great just great I [TS]

  think I think Steven Moffat said well [TS]

  somebody asked him about criticism of [TS]

  russell davis and he said read the [TS]

  partners in crime script it's about as [TS]

  good a TV script as you'll ever read and [TS]

  that's a great fit the whole thing the [TS]

  coincidence thing to that like that the [TS]

  heart bead or whatever like another [TS]

  great artists like Donna I met you that [TS]

  I met you again I Met Your father [TS]

  grandfather and it's your red car home [TS]

  and it still is true whatever who love [TS]

  who does who doesn't love Bernard [TS]

  Cribbins appearance i love to I love [TS]

  Bracken's Bernard Cribbins probably [TS]

  burner I'm burner very cryptic your [TS]

  England said right said fred it's um but [TS]

  can I tell my favorite episode yes go [TS]

  ahead and got it also turn left turn [TS]

  left [TS]

  so good i watch that one again and again [TS]

  from that season because it's um I know [TS]

  it's kind of a it's like again the [TS]

  doctors barely in it but it has so many [TS]

  wonderful things that makes good use the [TS]

  campaign's makes good use of of unit [TS]

  there's some crazy there's there's a bit [TS]

  actually think helen is when she wakes [TS]

  up in the past on the street lying on [TS]

  the ground and she hears the music good [TS]

  to do and the guy in the boombox walks [TS]

  by with it and I'm like that's cute like [TS]

  that's a little [TS]

  a high anxiety moment there for us from [TS]

  books but i just think it's it's very [TS]

  wonderfully structured and at the end i [TS]

  think that is one of the most chilling [TS]

  and wonderful bits like it is very short [TS]

  is she said to worry who is a blonde [TS]

  girl who was what she say she said two [TS]

  words in the bad wolf and the craziness [TS]

  it's awful and crazy this is bad wolf [TS]

  everywhere then the the cloister Bell [TS]

  and complete completely ignored in the [TS]

  next episode but it's a great ending [TS]

  exactly taller than the cloister Bell [TS]

  and then it's just like but it's a great [TS]

  little bit like bad wolf and then you're [TS]

  like oh my god they're gonna bring it [TS]

  around again you know you thought they [TS]

  already run through Billy than there she [TS]

  is then they whatever then we can get [TS]

  that wolf and so I i really like that [TS]

  was it you have a low point low point [TS]

  i'm a big fan of the centaurans so maybe [TS]

  thats I thought that was the two-parter [TS]

  was too long and sort of tedious and the [TS]

  really irritating that early that early [TS]

  series two partners and I bet it's a [TS]

  hard place to be [TS]

  yeah because you know i already [TS]

  mentioned my life that planet the point [TS]

  of the unit is a really good sort of our [TS]

  canonical one with the doctor in it but [TS]

  yeah I'm it yeah I think that's it you [TS]

  know the interaction of our song is [TS]

  important but I don't think those [TS]

  episodes are necessarily don't say the [TS]

  strongest the season but you know I [TS]

  actually doctor's daughter point really [TS]

  did not like that episode at all so [TS]

  that's probably the low point because [TS]

  its entirety of this entire is too long [TS]

  yet so doctor's daughter with a low [TS]

  point turn left with my way Erica what [TS]

  do you think you know i'm looking at the [TS]

  list of episodes in that series and I i [TS]

  don't know that i have a high point that [TS]

  is just when I unless I could say that [TS]

  my high point is Donna herself because I [TS]

  think fondly of this series because I [TS]

  ended up loving Donna so much I I hated [TS]

  her in the runaway bride a lot so I was [TS]

  I was one of those fans that was freaked [TS]

  out and nervous that she was coming back [TS]

  to actually be the companion and I did [TS]

  not like partners in crime because of [TS]

  that scene that you're talking about [TS]

  Jason because there was there was so [TS]

  much silliness and I just I don't don't [TS]

  like that kind of wacky slapstick stuff [TS]

  all right right the same figure from [TS]

  black biggest same thing all right [TS]

  exactly so it's a big turn off so he [TS]

  took a few seemed like such a nice [TS]

  person and yet at [TS]

  i'm really not i'm not at all man and [TS]

  she she she confesses to liking mirror [TS]

  grant books and then it just all goes [TS]

  downhill from the investment yep [TS]

  somebody's gonna like from somebody's [TS]

  got to like them defeat the John has got [TS]

  some great stuff in fires of Pompeii [TS]

  she's got some great stuff in unicorn in [TS]

  the wasp she's got some good stuff in [TS]

  silence in the library to I did I i [TS]

  think going back and rewatching now I [TS]

  would like her more in partners in crime [TS]

  and fires of Pompeii I just I didn't [TS]

  like I just didn't like her [TS]

  characterization at first because it was [TS]

  so in your face and that was that was [TS]

  difficult for me but once I kind of got [TS]

  on board and learn to like her then it [TS]

  was just she could do no wrong and I [TS]

  loved everything and if I had to pick a [TS]

  high point it would probably be the [TS]

  Sontaran to partner because I adore [TS]

  Sontarans and yep i adore Sontaran [TS]

  that's i adore Sontarans to but not not [TS]

  but not there huh [TS]

  no I love them so much so yeah so that [TS]

  was that I think that it low point is [TS]

  just sort of most of it but one but the [TS]

  high point is is absolutely Donna for [TS]

  sure [TS]

  however it's I have very mixed feelings [TS]

  about her end but overall she's one of [TS]

  my favorite new series companions maybe [TS]

  one of my favorite all-time chip what's [TS]

  your thought about series series for my [TS]

  favorite would have to be midnight if [TS]

  this is it is such a subversive episode [TS]

  because it takes the it takes the doctor [TS]

  and it puts him as in a circumstance [TS]

  where there is absolutely nobody else [TS]

  around to tell the world how reliable [TS]

  and how great and how helpful the doctor [TS]

  is he stuck in a bus and nobody in the [TS]

  bus trust him and they almost chuck them [TS]

  out of the bus and killing and he comes [TS]

  out of it just shattered and that is [TS]

  just it its powerful writing it's [TS]

  another one of those i think that you [TS]

  would have said Jason where if he just [TS]

  came in and did an episode that would be [TS]

  the one he did it [TS]

  it'sit's Russell T Davis or stepping [TS]

  outside of the ark to just tell not the [TS]

  story that he always wanted to tell but [TS]

  the store [TS]

  worried that you almost have to still [TS]

  have to tell about the doctor to sort of [TS]

  deep to deflate the mystery around him [TS]

  or something like that if you didn't he [TS]

  write it just just right off the cuff [TS]

  wasn't that sort of dropped in because [TS]

  something else fell out of the way and [TS]

  that's like--that's that that's the sign [TS]

  of a good writer i mean he he just you [TS]

  know what whipped that off like I wish [TS]

  he would have done something more like [TS]

  that for some of his finale while this [TS]

  is that this is the thing is there's the [TS]

  Russell T Davies was a really good [TS]

  writer and then there's a guy who wanted [TS]

  to do or felt the need to do the big [TS]

  operatic finales and all of that because [TS]

  that he was the showrunner and that's [TS]

  what he felt people needed out of the [TS]

  Ark of the series but as a result I feel [TS]

  like we did kind of get cheated out of [TS]

  more episodes that showcase him being [TS]

  who is which is a really really good [TS]

  writer when you know and I say that [TS]

  somebody who thinks that his continually [TS]

  turning up the volume on the finales [TS]

  kind of went way too far but in an [TS]

  episode like this chip I mean obviously [TS]

  this is my high point two and it is i [TS]

  think his best script and i would [TS]

  actually put a make a little box of [TS]

  midnight and and blink and say my I've [TS]

  said this before saying the twilight [TS]

  zone it's like these you put these on [TS]

  that level of like this is an anthology [TS]

  just take the script and and run it and [TS]

  it doesn't matter what show it's in and [TS]

  it's just so brilliantly written and and [TS]

  III seriously midnight could be a [TS]

  Twilight Zone episode and i would put it [TS]

  there with a work of Rod Serling it is [TS]

  that kind of like great it would be [TS]

  great play it would be a fantastic scary [TS]

  weird play and I do think I do think [TS]

  it's brilliant so I'm with you on bid 90 [TS]

  midnight i think it has been staged [TS]

  actually I think they've done that [TS]

  somewhere in New York what makes sense [TS]

  because closed rewrites the locked room [TS]

  think you can do it as a plane much more [TS]

  easily [TS]

  yeah it'sit's the total bottle show [TS]

  episode it's like the fly episode of [TS]

  breaking bad only even more [TS]

  claustrophobic they had to build the set [TS]

  but then they just use that set a low [TS]

  point for you chip doctor's daughter [TS]

  it's the only time it's the only time [TS]

  I've yelled at my new series doctor who [TS]

  yelled at the screen because when you [TS]

  yell what did you [TS]

  I aren't Pete that I cannot repeat what [TS]

  I yell but the thing the thing that [TS]

  upsets me about that episode is that [TS]

  there are absolutely no surprises [TS]

  everything right everything happens from [TS]

  there is just no surprise you know that [TS]

  she is going to die at the end you know [TS]

  that she is going to regenerate at the [TS]

  end the even even when the doctor holds [TS]

  the gun to the generals head and [TS]

  postures bit it's all hollow it's all [TS]

  just bad if the the jumping in front of [TS]

  a guy I mean social so lazy so clich├ęd [TS]

  the this episode's right content in [TS]

  order for David Tennant and in Georgia [TS]

  to get together right is that it's [TS]

  inside it's a reality retcon I think [TS]

  she's a lot of fun in this episode in [TS]

  fact I I think I think I think georgia [TS]

  moffett and I would also say the scenes [TS]

  with Martha and the little bubbly half [TS]

  guy i think are the only redeeming [TS]

  things in the entire episode but those [TS]

  those you know she's she's good she's [TS]

  just trapped in a bad script yeah and i [TS]

  will briefly say because I'm [TS]

  contractually obligated to i am a fan of [TS]

  the stolen earth and journey's end and I [TS]

  do like that operatic stuff and i will [TS]

  say in my defense that night that it was [TS]

  a for the longest time the highest-rated [TS]

  in terms of audience and audience [TS]

  appreciation of all the series it was a [TS]

  crowd pleaser and as a crowd as a part [TS]

  of a crowd i was pleased i recently [TS]

  watched it and I might like it much [TS]

  better this time I quite enjoyed it so [TS]

  I'm I'm on Team ship when we did the [TS]

  family rewatch stolen earth journeys and [TS]

  you know it's sort of silly and there's [TS]

  some really weird stuff in it that [TS]

  you're like really ok like the Daleks [TS]

  are beaming people up to the ship for [TS]

  this weird test and I mean there's a lot [TS]

  of like short kind of like well we look [TS]

  we need that to happen so this other [TS]

  thing that but the only thing I hated [TS]

  about it was the warp star diamond right [TS]

  right but but I actually really liked [TS]

  that too [TS]

  it is because i like the family reunion [TS]

  aspect of it like let's get everybody [TS]

  back together in fact [TS]

  uh you could wear and we're about to [TS]

  move on to the specials i would say one [TS]

  of the things that has made me like it [TS]

  more is that I've seen now the next step [TS]

  of of operatic ending which is the end [TS]

  of time and I it makes me wish that the [TS]

  the journey's end had been the end for [TS]

  david tennant because it's felt like the [TS]

  end for Russell T Davis and david [TS]

  tennant it was literally let's bring [TS]

  everybody back let's close the books we [TS]

  you know here's the end of the story [TS]

  journey's end and now bring in the new [TS]

  doctor and instead what we just let's do [TS]

  it again next year for more specials [TS]

  Jason that's exactly what I was just [TS]

  thinking is that the the let's get [TS]

  everybody together thing kind of [TS]

  bothered me a little bit because it was [TS]

  hokey and cheesy but I'm okay with [TS]

  hockey and cheesy if it's this last gas [TS]

  but you know big ending things so in my [TS]

  mind he actually did regenerate at the [TS]

  end of journey's end and then we had [TS]

  nothing else in LA [TS]

  my fingers are in my ears I can't hear [TS]

  you I can't hear you you can't do that [TS]

  you can't do that you can't turn down [TS]

  waters of mars like that I know you [TS]

  can't well yes I can yes I can let's [TS]

  forget we'll get there we'll get there [TS]

  in a minute I'm i wanted to i want to [TS]

  say for me I midnight obviously the high [TS]

  point for me although i really do like [TS]

  fires of pompeii and I and unicorn in [TS]

  the wasp is I think hilariously funny [TS]

  and and and the Mafia two-parter i think [TS]

  is really good [TS]

  although it does recycle things and and [TS]

  in true Steven Moffat timey-wimey [TS]

  fashion pre cycles things where he will [TS]

  strip mine it for things that he'll use [TS]

  again and again and again when he comes [TS]

  and runs the show I I didn't like I it's [TS]

  a low point I'm gonna like turn left as [TS]

  much as a lot of people did it just you [TS]

  know I think it's fine i think the [TS]

  little bug is really weird and the [TS]

  Caradoc that the fortune-teller [TS]

  character is kind of a strange and [TS]

  racist stereotype and but the sitaaron [TS]

  to partner is really bad and doctor's [TS]

  daughter daughter is really bad i [TS]

  thought so those are my losers there but [TS]

  boy I love midnight i'm a chap to [TS]

  midnight blue tonight sounds like [TS]

  twilight it's a little scary like we're [TS]

  fans of a vampire book or something but [TS]

  no it's a misanthropic Twilight Zone [TS]

  episode that i love that is also the [TS]

  target for complete [TS]

  this on the pacific on exactly so [TS]

  special let's before we go and we are [TS]

  going to go [TS]

  are we the specials we have the next [TS]

  Doctor planet of the dead the waters of [TS]

  mars in the end of time I I my feeling [TS]

  here is that I've to like Erica would [TS]

  dream of ending it with journey's end [TS]

  the only limitation there is I really [TS]

  actually love the waters of mars it is [TS]

  one of my favorite David Tennant [TS]

  episodes i love everything about it love [TS]

  it love it love it i love all aspects of [TS]

  it I think it's a great episode and [TS]

  otherwise I find nothing to command any [TS]

  of these specials so that's the very end [TS]

  of the end of time the very end of the [TS]

  independent last like you know that [TS]

  little brief code at the end of time we [TS]

  said goodbye to everybody that goes on [TS]

  for about half an hour [TS]

  I like that when I hate that the part [TS]

  part 1 of end of time only thing I will [TS]

  defend I did not like any of these [TS]

  really i'm actually the next doctor was [TS]

  sort of sweet and interesting absolute [TS]

  lever what's that you have a balloon [TS]

  feelin it was clever it was just it [TS]

  wasn't i don't think was well developed [TS]

  but i think the Miss Havisham no I said [TS]

  her name it's a good fit the character [TS]

  dev lick her wounds really miss Hartigan [TS]

  see I can find a way i can find a name I [TS]

  think she was a wonderful that wonderful [TS]

  performance was a wonderful character [TS]

  and her arc through it was creepy and [TS]

  good had a great [TS]

  kaboom conclusion but and what I do not [TS]

  like waters of mars i thought it was [TS]

  full of holes and just sort of i'm not [TS]

  speaking fan of Superman's but here's [TS]

  the thing so end of time I think of when [TS]

  I think of a time I forget there's a [TS]

  part 1 and i'm looking at this and then [TS]

  remembering this apart one which I [TS]

  didn't I thought which is full of [TS]

  nonsense in him eating people at the [TS]

  hamburger stand and all you know it's a [TS]

  very easy stuff with the setup it's a [TS]

  weird things like I'm so hungry their [TS]

  skeletons in the super creepy rich guy [TS]

  and his daughter and his little thing [TS]

  that he's building is too much right [TS]

  ok so but that but part 2 I thought had [TS]

  wonderful stuff in also i really like [TS]

  Bernard Cribbins I thought he was used [TS]

  extremely well I like the [TS]

  out you know that I think it came out [TS]

  don't we know that it's actually the [TS]

  moment the claire bloom is supposed to [TS]

  be the doctors mother might supposedly [TS]

  but I thought her showing up and [TS]

  disappearing [TS]

  whatever the reason it didn't bother me [TS]

  there wasn't a strict like Time Lord [TS]

  plot reason that came out and they [TS]

  started to let me explain it's fine to [TS]

  explain explain this [TS]

  I think there's enough holes and time [TS]

  and other things you could just say this [TS]

  is a thing but this is the way she [TS]

  dressed bernhard the the sort of [TS]

  confusing aspect cover [TS]

  I thought that was terrific and I [TS]

  thought it came to a great conclusion [TS]

  because you have that relationship [TS]

  between the doctor and the master which [TS]

  goes back for decades and which is [TS]

  confused different times that the master [TS]

  went from being sort of this creature of [TS]

  pure evil sort of where the JK Rowling [TS]

  you know gets her master full name made [TS]

  of old apart from sort of it's like [TS]

  somebody who's just totally evil and his [TS]

  goals are sort of incomprehensible [TS]

  because often destroying the universe [TS]

  accidentally or on purpose like we don't [TS]

  get a power if there is no universe in [TS]

  here it's like I thought it was much [TS]

  more direct i love the actor who played [TS]

  the master and at the end he gets to do [TS]

  that thing he gets to say all right i [TS]

  have an opportunity to sacrifice and [TS]

  they use that really wonderfully I think [TS]

  it went on too long that scene and then [TS]

  just that bit when bernhard knocks on [TS]

  the door pop pop and you're like oh that [TS]

  was the payoff that was fantastic chip [TS]

  it's time it's time to go ahead let me [TS]

  have it [TS]

  my favorite episode of my favorite [TS]

  special is the waters of mars Oh affect [TS]

  their you you thought i was going to say [TS]

  something else I did you did I did you [TS]

  surprise me from now till the end of [TS]

  time [TS]

  no the waters of mars is genius [TS]

  rtd and fill for just put together [TS]

  something that was gripping and scary [TS]

  and very Doctor Who I think very doctor [TS]

  who and gets really into the depths of [TS]

  the darkness the potential for darkness [TS]

  inside the character and it's the only [TS]

  it's the kind of story you can only tell [TS]

  on your way out there there's nowhere [TS]

  for the character go other than to [TS]

  regenerate and start over and start and [TS]

  start lighter [TS]

  so waters of mars is just genius [TS]

  television i think from stuff from [TS]

  beginning to end everything else in the [TS]

  season is light and oh it's light and [TS]

  fluffy next doctor and planet of the [TS]

  dead [TS]

  I don't hate although i don't hate the [TS]

  next Doctor Who more than women parsing [TS]

  the difficult even more see is is always [TS]

  fun to watch it is fun to watch in the [TS]

  next Doctor yes yes I yeah that's fun [TS]

  next doctor's fun planet of the dead is [TS]

  somewhat less fun although i don't hate [TS]

  michelle ryan as much as some people to [TS]

  ask for the end of time I have a [TS]

  reputation among my friends and among [TS]

  the Doctor Who podcasting community in [TS]

  general as the big defender of the end [TS]

  of time and my point [TS]

  yeah I'm not so much defending the end [TS]

  of time is i am standing against just [TS]

  irrational hatred of of the two-parter I [TS]

  it is not perfect [TS]

  the part where part one is a mess but i [TS]

  think part two works more than it [TS]

  doesn't work it's I i would agree with [TS]

  you that journeys stolen earth and [TS]

  journeys and are better than the end of [TS]

  time but the things that I like about [TS]

  the end of time is our the fact that the [TS]

  doctor doesn't want to go the doctor [TS]

  rails against it it's entirely [TS]

  consistent with the way that the doctor [TS]

  has been portrayed by david tennant as [TS]

  being too attached to who he is and what [TS]

  he does and even though that may seem [TS]

  undock Trish and venal and whining of [TS]

  him i do like to see him struggling [TS]

  against what he wants to do and what he [TS]

  must do and I think that that makes his [TS]

  sacrifice to will more believable and [TS]

  and the best thing about the end of time [TS]

  is post regeneration the happy balancing [TS]

  music Matt Smith just being light and [TS]

  fluffy and glorious it's been spitting [TS]

  and spitting and it's it Russell T [TS]

  Davies did the best thing possible he [TS]

  writes [TS]

  the david tennant regenerate scenes and [TS]

  then hands the script over to moffitt [TS]

  and says you go and Moffat does the [TS]

  perfect thing which is we've had a lot [TS]

  of angst now let's have some fun let's [TS]

  get you excited about seeing this new [TS]

  guy [TS]

  Erica what do you think of the specials [TS]

  um I wasn't I wasn't joking when I said [TS]

  I like to just pretend that your knees [TS]

  and with that I'd i do agree that waters [TS]

  of mars is is excellent in in many ways [TS]

  feel for it is is awesome and but [TS]

  actually i think i like to feel forward [TS]

  stuff on the sarah jane adventures a [TS]

  little bit better than this and probably [TS]

  just because it's the audience it's [TS]

  lighter [TS]

  yeah it's yes yes a little bit lighter [TS]

  than everybody dying and yeah and the [TS]

  people who are saved or shouldn't have [TS]

  been saved and one of them kills himself [TS]

  and yeah yeah and that I mean that the [TS]

  whole suicide thing was that was that [TS]

  was definitely way too much for me [TS]

  um and way too much for for teatime [TS]

  television i thought yeah i agree i [TS]

  think the ending is I I guess I get it [TS]

  in the story arc but that's not why i [TS]

  love it that ending is not why i love it [TS]

  i love everything you like the food [TS]

  appearing suddenly yeah sudden [TS]

  appearances may be prevented through [TS]

  proper use of time i like the burden of [TS]

  we've seen all the whole premise of [TS]

  waters of mars right is is the doctor [TS]

  said I can't change everything because [TS]

  you know of time and and they're fixed [TS]

  points and he reaches a point where he's [TS]

  at this base with these people who who [TS]

  died they all died and he struggles with [TS]

  the idea of you know IA says I gotta get [TS]

  out of here and he gets to know them and [TS]

  he gets the adventure and then he has to [TS]

  remind himself of these people all die [TS]

  and then yes he makes the decision i'm [TS]

  going to screw it i'm going to save them [TS]

  and we'll just see what happens and it [TS]

  has horrible consequences but i like [TS]

  that because thatthat's it's hard for [TS]

  the show that to go that far in like [TS]

  chip said you kind of have to be heading [TS]

  out the door before you can do that but [TS]

  i think just once to say what happens [TS]

  when the doctor is in the no-win [TS]

  scenario and and then he's and he [TS]

  decides to cheat it's very Captain Kirk [TS]

  actually it's to cheat at the no-win [TS]

  scenario but yeah i do it i still would [TS]

  like to pretend you're any sense [TS]

  thank you yes oh yes the waters of mars [TS]

  this is good and i find it hard to say [TS]

  anything bad about 440 [TS]

  nice guy i can't remember if I hugged [TS]

  him but we did have tequila together so [TS]

  there was that I shook his hand [TS]

  tvs feel for ya he's wonderful he's [TS]

  great but i think i would still throw [TS]

  his script here under the bus if it is [TS]

  it is it is a dispatch double-decker bus [TS]

  in the sand [TS]

  yeah exactly that is that is the bus [TS]

  that I would toss it under if i could if [TS]

  i could also get rid of all three of the [TS]

  other specials at the same time that's [TS]

  that's the caveat there and yes I'm I'm [TS]

  on record as its not liking the end of [TS]

  time simply because i love david tennant [TS]

  so much he was just I was crushed when [TS]

  he was going to leave and I didn't like [TS]

  the way that the rtd sent him out [TS]

  admitted it turned my knee at the end [TS]

  and i just did that really graded on me [TS]

  as somebody who really loves the show [TS]

  and all of its changes and I do like [TS]

  being sad when the doctor leaves but I i [TS]

  like being sad and knowing that the [TS]

  doctor is ok with it that gives me sort [TS]

  of a sense of balance and that [TS]

  everything is right with the universe [TS]

  and when the doctors not okay with it [TS]

  that just that does something to me on a [TS]

  very deep emotional level that I'm i'm [TS]

  not a right with over the the I don't [TS]

  want to go although i think chosen [TS]

  because that's rusty was looked at it [TS]

  that's my last line i'm going to give [TS]

  that I the the moment that it doesn't [TS]

  really match with what I think is maybe [TS]

  the best line in the whole show which is [TS]

  lifted long right where he where he has [TS]

  his rating egomaniacal I'm more [TS]

  important than anybody i should live [TS]

  forever nobody nobody else is life is [TS]

  more important than mine and and then [TS]

  has the more is like oh yeah I've come [TS]

  way too far [TS]

  I I this is this i'm out of control here [TS]

  and that that's a wonderful moment where [TS]

  he says no I need to do this I need to [TS]

  sacrifice myself for wealth this is what [TS]

  the doctor does it's just can't counter [TS]

  you know acted a little bit by other [TS]

  want to go at the end it's like that's [TS]

  why you're going that's exactly what you [TS]

  are have to go swimming after the fact [TS]

  finding out what r td's original idea [TS]

  had been for four tenants last last [TS]

  episode with that it was it was going to [TS]

  be his original idea was going to be [TS]

  something much more on a smaller scale [TS]

  like saving a family on a spaceship [TS]

  something very small and intimate and [TS]

  they want to hit me where i lived in [TS]

  that would have just done it right for [TS]

  me and then the story is and I don't [TS]

  know if this is true but that Johnson [TS]

  said hey you know I'd like to be [TS]

  involved so he had to rewrite it to add [TS]

  the master and that's sort of where [TS]

  everything spiraled into this no giant [TS]

  saving the universe you can see it comes [TS]

  back the palm again a little short is he [TS]

  cares enough to save this one person [TS]

  who's gonna be saving these allows [TS]

  himself to die and he's ready to die [TS]

  then because of the time war but it [TS]

  that's that little bit i actually was [TS]

  surprised when i watch that was the most [TS]

  surprising thing was this is what the [TS]

  doctor does but people always take his [TS]

  help and he only succeeds and she [TS]

  refused his help and so I think there [TS]

  may be a little bit of an echo of that [TS]

  in there saving one person dying for her [TS]

  yeah and I appreciate that he did at [TS]

  least made it intimate in the fact that [TS]

  you know he it ultimately sacrifices [TS]

  himself to save wealth who is one kind [TS]

  person I just didn't i didn't like the [TS]

  rant the rant eNOS that had to happen [TS]

  beforehand that was that that we just [TS]

  went it was like fingernails on a [TS]

  chalkboard to me and it hurt to watch [TS]

  but I think that's I think that was the [TS]

  thing that I think it was supposed to I [TS]

  think the doctor is something that you [TS]

  know we accept that people are not as [TS]

  selfless this is the thing i did this [TS]

  radio interview once about KY came up it [TS]

  was about that was about Doctor Who I [TS]

  was always thinking the doctor runs into [TS]

  dangerous dangerous recognize the danger [TS]

  that's the thing he's you know it's like [TS]

  a fireman and there's the the flip side [TS]

  of it i was talking to a woman who [TS]

  writes about psychological stuff and [TS]

  we're talking about the flip side of the [TS]

  psychopath in the hero [TS]

  those are two sides in literature in a [TS]

  good psychological nature of the same [TS]

  thing what you don't realize is that the [TS]

  selfless hero is a rule-breaker they [TS]

  don't confront conventions but we admire [TS]

  them we wouldn't mind a psychopath [TS]

  because they seem to do something that [TS]

  is positive x through self-sacrifice and [TS]

  breaking rules a doctor is that [TS]

  psychopath bay psychopath for us we got [TS]

  to see a little bit of the flip side of [TS]

  that in the episode where he rants about [TS]

  his own needs for once you know wanting [TS]

  recognition all that and then you got it [TS]

  under control is that ok ok ok [TS]

  wow that was too much [TS]

  well and that's another hallmark of the [TS]

  russell t davies Sarah as far as the [TS]

  doctor is concerned both ecclestone and [TS]

  to a greater extent tenants doctors they [TS]

  are more human then classic doctor who [TS]

  is tended to serve up and that's I [TS]

  that's something that I think has [TS]

  changed significantly since Steven [TS]

  Moffat took over and I think that that [TS]

  is something that makes the Russell [TS]

  Davis's Doctor Who idiosyncratic I like [TS]

  it and I i enjoy his episodes more than [TS]

  I enjoy moffatts episodes and that [TS]

  perhaps makes me up [TS]

  not as real a doctor who fan as a guy [TS]

  with process coffee whatever [TS]

  no I think I think chip i think i [TS]

  completely agree that that his doctors [TS]

  are more human and it is idiosyncratic [TS]

  and while I don't like watching that [TS]

  style of dr. as much as I like the alien [TS]

  doctor I still really enjoyed it and I [TS]

  wouldn't have it any other way because I [TS]

  think if if he had tried to start off [TS]

  with a really alien doctor I honestly [TS]

  don't know if the show would have [TS]

  survived and I think that everything [TS]

  that rtd did was with the intent of [TS]

  bringing in new audiences and getting [TS]

  people to watch and enjoy the show and [TS]

  he succeeded and i will bow down and [TS]

  kiss his feet if her meet him because he [TS]

  did such a great job that we now have [TS]

  this show is still going [TS]

  that is a perfect way to bring this [TS]

  around and in this episode because i [TS]

  think when we look at the legacy of of [TS]

  the russell t davies here I mean we can [TS]

  quibble about some of his choices and [TS]

  his operatic endings and maybe the [TS]

  specials year was miscalculated although [TS]

  i think even then his idea was that he [TS]

  didn't want it to go off the air for [TS]

  even a moment he wanted to keep it going [TS]

  i think I i think that was it i think he [TS]

  calculated sometimes to individual [TS]

  episodes detriment [TS]

  perhaps I ways to make the show [TS]

  successful because he really wanted it [TS]

  to be successful and and maybe some of [TS]

  the choices that we look back and I'm [TS]

  like why did that happen was was for [TS]

  that reason and i think you you think [TS]

  you know [TS]

  that that one of the reasons these [TS]

  doctors are how they are is they didn't [TS]

  have the luxury of making him tom baker [TS]

  staring off into the distance and saying [TS]

  I walk into eternity right they needed [TS]

  people to really attached to these [TS]

  people because he was what he wanted [TS]

  ratings he wanted Doctor Who to be [TS]

  reestablished in people's minds so that [TS]

  it wouldn't go away again and he [TS]

  succeeded and and so even though we can [TS]

  quibble about some of the details i [TS]

  think there's no doubt about the fact [TS]

  that he succeeded at what his mission [TS]

  was which was to firmly establish the [TS]

  show and have it be a modern show and [TS]

  take something that was considered by a [TS]

  lot of people in british television in [TS]

  the UK in general to be kind of a [TS]

  laughingstock because of it's sort of [TS]

  Saturn lower-rated cheap budget latter [TS]

  years in the eighties we rightly or [TS]

  wrongly but seen as kind of a joke in a [TS]

  dead property and firmly reestablish it [TS]

  as a cornerstone of british pop culture [TS]

  and job done he did it and that i think [TS]

  if you have to say anything about this [TS]

  era it's that is he was the man tasked [TS]

  to bring it back he made a lot of very [TS]

  interesting not always obvious decisions [TS]

  and it paid off because doctor who is [TS]

  here and is firmly established in a way [TS]

  that it's hard to even imagine in from [TS]

  the vantage point of like the year 2000 [TS]

  yeah and I'm some completely Gladys by [TS]

  any criticism I have any individual [TS]

  episodes or anything it's like on the [TS]

  whole it's great there are some terrific [TS]

  episodes even some of them except for [TS]

  the three worst ones i still watch them [TS]

  all I mean it wasn't terrible in the [TS]

  doctor's daughter whatever but I watch [TS]

  them all and I got something out of you [TS]

  know out of all of them it was a little [TS]

  bit even this entire episode second and [TS]

  tennis ball at tennis ball against the [TS]

  back of his neck and uh but he did I [TS]

  think you're totally totally right and [TS]

  create an enjoyable show it was ripping [TS]

  and gripping gripping gripping and full [TS]

  of that kind of flipping like horrid [TS]

  that the i'm not a big fan of horror [TS]

  genre like suspense maybe a little bit [TS]

  horror I don't like doctor who is right [TS]

  on the edge of the kind of horror that I [TS]

  can actually appreciate it and I think [TS]

  more so because of the more the better [TS]

  cg and realism everything out that [TS]

  the appearance of CG and all the realism [TS]

  and and just the cinema I think even the [TS]

  Senate at a cinematographic approach and [TS]

  then he's on saying and so forth they [TS]

  they are more effective and conveying [TS]

  horror than the earlier seasons which [TS]

  were because of the bit of happiness of [TS]

  the set to come across as as more fun [TS]

  even when the horrors going on going on [TS]

  and the new one or more like horror [TS]

  films and so even with that I could [TS]

  enjoy and it's to create a great a great [TS]

  run he set the stage you did a great job [TS]

  yeah the if you compare it to the [TS]

  Moffett era and boy there's 90 podcast [TS]

  you can do about that right there are 90 [TS]

  different podcasts out they're releasing [TS]

  weekly episodes to comparing the two [TS]

  areas so just look for those on itunes [TS]

  the i would say the big differences for [TS]

  me are ya the portrayal of the doctor is [TS]

  different the the approach to the [TS]

  scripts as different as we mentioned [TS]

  earlier Steven Moffat doesn't do [TS]

  cover-to-cover rewrites and I think [TS]

  sometimes that allows different quirky [TS]

  voices to come out and I think other [TS]

  times it shows that they needed more [TS]

  work and you know you so it's a little [TS]

  more variable in that in in good and bad [TS]

  ways what I will say about the Steven [TS]

  Moffat era is that I don't know what [TS]

  they did when they change production [TS]

  teams but the look of the show is much [TS]

  better in them in the modern era Michael [TS]

  pick what the production production [TS]

  production design the that the cinema [TS]

  the the cinematography the the not just [TS]

  that they went to HD but the the way [TS]

  it's shot it is shot like a movie every [TS]

  week in an able you see in the first [TS]

  frames of the 11th hour it's like hard [TS]

  to believe it's the same show and that's [TS]

  the only way i'd say that that it feels [TS]

  really dated to me looking at the at the [TS]

  Russell T Davis area is that it feels [TS]

  like a a TV show and the Moffett air [TS]

  feels like a movie to me and that's I've [TS]

  hard to quantify but I think there's [TS]

  something there but script wise it's [TS]

  kinda all over the place in them in the [TS]

  Mafia and yeah all although the Moffett [TS]

  era is just as guilty as the Davis era [TS]

  for ending with University yeah it is [TS]

  every single every single it's a [TS]

  straight line from series 1 all the way [TS]

  up to the to the time of the doctor [TS]

  the stakes have gotten bigger every [TS]

  single time literally yeah saving the [TS]

  world or saving the universe has has [TS]

  been or are all of time itself or all of [TS]

  time itself all universes everywhere [TS]

  yes i would really like one of those one [TS]

  of those kind of quiet emotional stakes [TS]

  where it's about the people and not [TS]

  about everything in the entire we are we [TS]

  are so far away from the possibility of [TS]

  Peter Capaldi even for his last episode [TS]

  whenever that is of him dying trying to [TS]

  save one family on a spaceship some but [TS]

  i will say end of time there was the [TS]

  funniest thing was like when can you [TS]

  have Rassilon say we're going to destroy [TS]

  the entire concept of time and causation [TS]

  in existence like this is getting pretty [TS]

  abstract like so we was second work if [TS]

  there's no I was always likely to call [TS]

  you but that's how explain later [TS]

  actually better because because it was a [TS]

  wonderfully abstract and really weird [TS]

  like Phillip philosophy PhD sort of idea [TS]

  we're just gonna get rid of causation [TS]

  and matter and it'll be great for us not [TS]

  for you guys of course not for you guys [TS]

  but for us forever but there is no [TS]

  forever because x dead in the spirit of [TS]

  russell t davies commentary tracks on [TS]

  the DVD sets [TS]

  hooray we've reached the end i would [TS]

  like to thank my guests for for talking [TS]

  about watching Doctor Who that happened [TS]

  like eight hours ago when we started and [TS]

  then about the russell t davies here [TS]

  which was a lot admittedly did to bite [TS]

  off but i wanted to do it one go and we [TS]

  did it we did it we can do this again [TS]

  with with the mat smith area sometime [TS]

  it's like that it's like the CliffsNotes [TS]

  version [TS]

  yeah you get us all back again once [TS]

  worked the time loop it's a chronic [TS]

  hysteresis yeah Usher and and we've [TS]

  still got another month and a half [TS]

  before Peter Capaldi so it's coming [TS]

  he's a common i would like to thank my [TS]

  guests for once again geeking out about [TS]

  Doctor Who it is a joy chip sudderth [TS]

  two-minute Time Lord audio by guide to [TS]

  Babylon 5 [TS]

  I got any other product that sir is that [TS]

  enough [TS]

  you know that's enough for now but it [TS]

  has been an absolute pleasure to share [TS]

  this episode of the two-hour time [TS]

  working with you that's right thanks for [TS]

  having me on ship I really appreciate it [TS]

  Erica and sign thank you so much for [TS]

  being back and and I feel like this is [TS]

  where we get you back to square one it's [TS]

  like we talked about all these other [TS]

  things with you and it's like back the [TS]

  doctor just three this is this is where [TS]

  I shine this is you know if we are [TS]

  caught in a chronic hysteresis all you [TS]

  have to do is just wagging his tail [TS]

  yeah Erica what is it like to be into [TS]

  other stuff than doctor who knows it's [TS]

  not costing Alex later and Fleischmann [TS]

  of course you may know Glenn something [TS]

  funny that you might not know about [TS]

  Glenn is glenn's and once shared a train [TS]

  compartment with Tom Baker's mailman no [TS]

  no no but my mother ran into rob reiner [TS]

  when he was making stand by me which I [TS]

  was almost cast in and she and I wasn't [TS]

  cast in the movie and he said that we [TS]

  talked about casting good story [TS]

  well it's it thank you for being here [TS]

  again talking about Doctor Who thanks [TS]

  for taking me to a few chapters sure [TS]

  where the patterns of the past it's a [TS]

  celebrity historical but who's the [TS]

  celebrity alright and thanks everybody [TS]

  out there for listening we hope that [TS]

  we've given you some thoughts about [TS]

  Doctor Who that you can take away and [TS]

  maybe start watching it or you can just [TS]

  yell at your phone about our terrible [TS]

  opinions that you disagree with you know [TS]

  that's what podcaster for until next [TS]

  time on the incomparable this is jason [TS]

  still signing off bye [TS]