Hello Internet

H.I. #9: Kids in a Box


  That the group of individuals you prefer outperform the group of individuals you do not prefer. [TS]

  Shall we commence episode number nine. [TS]

  Yes Number nine and let's do this this is this is the last time we were ever to podcast in single digits. [TS]

  Yes that is right. Do you remember when you turn ten. [TS]

  I don't remember very well but I remember thinking it was a big deal. [TS]

  I don't think I have any genuine memories from before high school so no I don't remember turning ten years old I [TS]

  remember seeing pictures of when I turned ten but I don't have any memories in my own head of such an event. [TS]

  Do you have memories from before you were ten years old. [TS]

  Like just in lots of things that happened I don't I don't think so no. I mean not real ones. [TS]

  You know you know how did your parents tell you about stuff that happened when you were a little kid [TS]

  and so it feels like memory [TS]

  but I'm not sure any of those memories that I think I have are actually real memories I have of you do you are you [TS]

  going to other people who tell me you have memories from being in the the cradle you know little tiny baby Brady I have [TS]

  to say I have three or four memories and they're mostly pretty big incidents like one when I broke my arm and one [TS]

  when not going on a plane and there's a few things I remember [TS]

  but the one thing that's really remember one thing that's really strange I should say is I have two dreams from [TS]

  when I was really young I still remember really vividly. [TS]

  But I'm not going to talk about them because I just suddenly occurred to me how boring it is to talk about their dreams. [TS]

  I think it is very boring hearing people talk about their dreams. [TS]

  It's even boring talking about your own dreams when if you tell someone else about your dreams always. [TS]

  But halfway through the story you realize your becoming bored by the story. [TS]

  Yeah and it's like Gosh how boring must this be for the other person. [TS]

  This is this is one of these things where perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to judge [TS]

  but I judge people very harshly if they're the kind. People who want to tell you about their dreams. [TS]

  I have no patience for this. Absolutely zero. [TS]

  And I feel like it is a poor indicator of a person's ability to project themselves into the mind of another human being [TS]

  if they think it's interesting to tell you about their dreams but dreams are not interesting to anybody. [TS]

  My own dreams aren't even interesting to me they just you know it's like oh I'll do I'll do I lose points for starting [TS]

  to talk about it and then gain points for realizing at the last minute [TS]

  and aborting you know if you were really close to losing some points. [TS]

  But but you know you were nosediving there but you pulled up at the last possible second. [TS]

  So you're still OK in my book [TS]

  but now that I've I've known people who I mean it's like it's like hours later you're at work it's lunch time you know [TS]

  this person's dream occurred hours and hours ago [TS]

  and I had a really interesting dream last night let me tell you about it. [TS]

  I was out shopping and I was with my brother but he wasn't really my brother you know he was also Robin Williams. [TS]

  Stop it like it's not it's not real. Like this means nothing to anybody. It doesn't even mean anything to you. [TS]

  Ah God so hard if you wake up if you have like a dream that has made an impression on you temporarily. D. [TS]

  Tell your wife about it. [TS]

  My wife actually thinks is very funny and it actually just happened this morning where right [TS]

  when I wake up sometimes I will make a comment about the kind of feeling like Oh God I had just really busy dreams last [TS]

  night and that is as far as I will go and she will ask me oh you know what did you dream about [TS]

  and I was like I can't I can't even tell you it's just who cares right. [TS]

  Just all that matters is I woke up [TS]

  and I have still have this kind of not like a great night's rest last night feeling [TS]

  but that's that's the end of it you know the details of the dreams I just totally irrelevant. [TS]

  Well and let's not talk about the follow up farce new countries I hear. Yes yes we have a bunch of new countries. [TS]

  I didn't do it last time [TS]

  but just yesterday I tallied up all of the new countries so the countries from which we've had reviews. [TS]

  OK So this is so what episode nine so since episode seven we have gotten at least one review in all of the following [TS]

  countries. So here's a list it is Bulgaria. [TS]

  Egypt stoning Indonesia Kuwait Macedonia Micronesia Moldova Mongolia in the pol Paraguay Peru and the Philippines. [TS]

  So which ones in that list have you actually been to I have been to Stony. [TS]

  And that is the only one on the list that I have been to when I do you. [TS]

  Yes quite an exclusive list is nothing to Egypt [TS]

  and I've obviously been in the polls one of my favorite countries in the world. [TS]

  Welcome to people from all of those countries especially in the poll. [TS]

  My quite possibly my favorite country in the world and home to half of Mt Everest. My favorite mountain in the world. [TS]

  Why is it your favorite country in the world. [TS]

  Because it's got like so many huge mountains and like it so I sense a bit cliche [TS]

  when you say that people are really nice but the people are really nice [TS]

  and it's just like oh come on it's just it's cool looking. It's cool stuff. [TS]

  I've had I've had really good times there so I want to go there again I want to I've been to Everest base camp twice [TS]

  and I want to go three times so I'm going to do it again. Well I love it. Would you come with me to Everest base camp. [TS]

  They would not you wouldn't know it when I want to. [TS]

  What didn't the last time or the airplane you took there last time like exploded. [TS]

  Months after their planet the first time from Katmandu to look where you start the trek to Everest that same plane a [TS]

  while later crash on that same flight and killed everyone. [TS]

  Well unfortunately like I was watching on the news and that they had footage of the wreckage it was so terrible [TS]

  and the serial number on the plane and I was like hang on and I got out my whole life I was [TS]

  and there's me standing next to the same plane waving you know the bus can be funny. [TS]

  Yes like a ringing endorsement for me to go to the one of that terrifying little plane to member you showed me the [TS]

  question well you know you don't get you don't get to you don't get to say and do the cool things in life you know. [TS]

  Yeah but I've I've read Into Thin Air. [TS]

  But the listeners say Jon Krakauer book it is it's about an expedition to Mount Everest that went terribly terribly [TS]

  wrong. [TS]

  If they were like Everest I'm not I'm not saying we should go about Everest I'm just saying we'll go to base camp. [TS]

  Yeah but you're just inches closer to danger in that kind of situation right. [TS]

  Being at base camp you are already so far away from civilization. [TS]

  It's just into thin air I thought was an interesting book partly because I think it's an interesting chronicle of how [TS]

  things go wrong in that there are not necessarily any major things that need to happen before you have a real problem [TS]

  on your hands it's just the accumulation of a lot of little errors each of which on their own wouldn't necessarily be [TS]

  devastating. [TS]

  And so I feel like even being at a place like base camp is just the safety margin between you [TS]

  and death who waits around every corner to catch you is just so much smaller than being in a more urban area perhaps [TS]

  with a well off on someone else to go. [TS]

  I'm sure you will I'm sure there are many people who would love to go but that that is that is not me. [TS]

  When I was on the follow up list what I saw in our. Or ever excellence. [TS]

  Read a discussion thread somebody made a little info graphic which showed your productive output vs my productive [TS]

  output [TS]

  and then it showed that since my previous video the video on jury nullification that since I had published that you had [TS]

  published I believe three hundred forty seven videos and also started nine new channels. [TS]

  You got that right from the info graphic I think is what you had done so you are quite a beast [TS]

  when it comes to you to productivity. You do exaggerate as mock me as always and I am not by much though. [TS]

  But I did notice that someone made that that little that little graphic with a little fun I was having a video I had [TS]

  uploaded since your previous one and and obviously it was amusing to see so many videos [TS]

  but you know the worst thing was they left out a whole bunch. [TS]

  I think I missed to how John there's a whole bunch of it is not on that list. [TS]

  So do you know what the actual number was at the time was I wouldn't something maybe I don't I don't know what it was [TS]

  but whatever it was it has come to an end because Hallelujah. A new video. Yes yes very exciting. [TS]

  That's what was on your site I have watched it and know exactly what it is of course. Yeah I put out the video. [TS]

  It is our Hong Kong and Macao countries and I think at the time we're recording this on Sunday [TS]

  and I put it up on Wednesday I think. [TS]

  But yes there were many funny comments left both on Reddit [TS]

  and on You Tube which I did scan over four people remarking about how they look right there's a video [TS]

  and you know gather the children around it's a rare occurrence. [TS]

  So people are very funny on the Internet I think there's a there's a great [TS]

  but yes the the long the long time of the video is over much too much. [TS]

  Great relief that had just been that had been too long [TS]

  and I I was getting very anxious about it so I'm happy to have it done. [TS]

  Do you want to stay with me here because I remember a few podcasts ago you told us about your whole procedure of [TS]

  putting up a new video going after it so you have this kind of video game time. Yeah. [TS]

  Computer sorry computer game whatever you whatever the young people call them they can do that [TS]

  and for various reasons mostly my folks the recording of this podcast has been delayed a few times [TS]

  and I did have a window to record it in the evening after you put that video out and I messaged you [TS]

  and said Do you want to do it Wednesday night or whatever it was [TS]

  and you were like I can't I have another commitment so I thought you must be going out to dinner or something [TS]

  or have some business meeting and then I saw her on Twitter making some comments [TS]

  or showing some picture that you're basically playing your computer game. [TS]

  So you're basically fobbed me off and didn't work or record the podcast so you could play computer games. [TS]

  OK this is this is a problem following me on Twitter. [TS]

  I did I did take my my traditional day off the day after to to basically mess around in open T.T.D. [TS]

  For those who care about such things [TS]

  but I did have an actual engagement in the evening so I spent most of the day blowing off all work [TS]

  but I did not spend the evening just like I don't feel like recording this podcast I had other stuff to do [TS]

  and you were only available in the evening time so did not work out. [TS]

  Sorry I don't I don't feel quite so spare and I thought I might try a bit of an experiment on this point cast. [TS]

  Yeah obviously it's only life to you and I So will lose some of its impact. [TS]

  I thought it might be a fun thing to do anyway so I might put my next video live right now. [TS]

  Oh yeah we're recording this on a Sunday evening which we shot [TS]

  and that's an optimal time to put my You Tube video live I would suspect not. I would suspect not as well. [TS]

  But you're going to do it anyway but I'm going to do it anyway. [TS]

  Part of that reason is I'm a bit worried about this video anyway so I don't mind if it gets kind of a bit lost in the [TS]

  noise. So because and I'm I'm prepared to be judged by you here because I and I've already been judged by others. [TS]

  He mocked my occasional overly long videos like this one is twenty six and a half minutes long that is pretty long. [TS]

  Which channel or it's a number five number five it's got it was it's got a bit of a story behind it. [TS]

  A guy the guy he came around to record it. Simon Pampena he's a mascot he's in a few of my videos. [TS]

  Basically he said I've got this really cool idea I'm really excited about doing. [TS]

  I actually want to do is I'll put it live and then I'll tell you the story because they go out [TS]

  and put it out of shows up on a number file you know the package open now to write this just it was fast so I put it [TS]

  live and I said basically he came ran epic circles. I see it. Oh my goodness. That quick that hit refresh. [TS]

  It's up epic circles. That's amazing. [TS]

  Yeah I have no idea why don't I immediately the thirty three views I wasn't even the first amazing. [TS]

  So anyway he came around to come and he said I've got this really good idea and it's really involved [TS]

  and it took all day to film so falling off from holding the camera and I was like Is this going to end [TS]

  and he was like Yeah you know it's it's OK trust me and then [TS]

  and then I was just realizing this film was just getting completely out of control. [TS]

  So anyway I've ended up with this video that's truly epic and pensive called Epic circles but it is really interesting. [TS]

  And he's kind of half way through to explain what he was doing he had to explain a whole new concept of a clean version [TS]

  and this became this huge mess. [TS]

  But the one good thing about it was it did result in the most beautiful final product piece of paper that we've ever [TS]

  had in number five. We always write on these scraps of paper and a piece of paper at the end of this. [TS]

  There is a master pace because for this video to work he couldn't just explain the concepts he had to actually draw all [TS]

  these diagrams in circles like perfectly accurately on the paper with the campuses and rulers and things. [TS]

  It's a must to place a piece of paper that the video is a bit long [TS]

  and so I've kind of buried on a Sunday not a set of people who because I guess if people watch videos at work they're [TS]

  not going to want to watch twenty six minute video. [TS]

  I think if they're at work they probably want to watch a twenty year period [TS]

  and I think I think you're looking at that the entirely wrong way see I would've thought maybe I thought this maybe [TS]

  this is more of a Sunday night video than than it than I while I'm having my sandwich lunch break so I could see from [TS]

  my own demographics looking at the information I have access to there is no doubt about it that my videos are basically [TS]

  their watch times correspond to the United States work week so people are watching like between nine [TS]

  and five on the work days. [TS]

  Right that's the whole You Tube economy is based on people at work taking some time off perhaps let's say of us E G P [TS]

  three first on my video I had to leave a comment. [TS]

  It's live right the very exciting so I thought I went over to it in until you got it and the other [TS]

  and the other thing is someone's written a comment here saying you know amazing as always which is very flattering [TS]

  but I could only watch the first minute of the video [TS]

  when twenty six minutes long so I'm not entirely convinced they do think the video is amazing I think just they dislike [TS]

  you. [TS]

  Does that mean everyone else who says something nice about my videos hasn't really watched them a little kids are going [TS]

  to start down that existential existential black hole here wondering if your work is any good [TS]

  but now I'm pretty sure it's not. Anyway are you so hard on yourself. [TS]

  But anyway thank you for thank you for your first comment [TS]

  and will come back at the very end to see if anyone who actually has watched the twenty six minute. [TS]

  So this had anything to say about my way too long video I don't know how you could just release a video well while [TS]

  you're while you're just doing something else I would be very nervous after I have to have the whole schedule clear for [TS]

  the first maybe an hour or so after a video because I want to make sure there's nothing wrong or [TS]

  or anything that fits just anything that would absolutely have to change I mean that's only only happened once [TS]

  or twice I've taken out a video and then uploaded something that that's changed immediately afterward [TS]

  but I would be I would be just waiting to find out if there was just something wrong or dumb in the video so [TS]

  but you're very very calm and I guess you have so many doesn't you know concerned I guess. Well now I'm keeping it. [TS]

  I'm keeping my left on because if someone says Oh my goodness I can't believe you just said Paes four point one three [TS]

  and we will have tech video again and I'm done with you. [TS]

  Anyway thank you for indulging me and thank you for your first comment. [TS]

  Did you have to say what do you think about people writing first on video just for the sake of having the first comic [TS]

  do you have a view on this I don't think it's like Internet culture. I think it's just sort of funny. [TS]

  I don't know I'm not sure how serious those commenters are it's just a funny bit of internet culture people want to say [TS]

  first and of course there's always the funny thing about a particular popular videos. [TS]

  People simultaneously trying to say first so you end up with thirty comments all that safe. [TS]

  Then they start arguing with each other. [TS]

  I you know I I'm the big fan of Internet culture I like all those kinds of things so I don't I don't mind at all I just [TS]

  think it's kind of funny and like I made a hell of a lot about how I like it I think it's I'm for it [TS]

  and I think it's just human nature to want to be first. [TS]

  Yeah but it is interesting how different different communities can be so the first thing is totally absent from Reddit. [TS]

  You know you'll never see people leave a first. [TS]

  Comment on Iran today it's interesting to see how how different places can be kind of culturally different [TS]

  but some of the already angry at me for having left the first comment on your video. So there we go. [TS]

  That's the advantage of knowing when it was going live. Hello Internet. [TS]

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  So for me it's just a huge relief to have a hold of those burdens lifted from my shoulders because I used to write all [TS]

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  All one word to get ten percent off Squarespace who we thank again for their support Squarespace everything you need to [TS]

  create an exceptional website. [TS]

  Someone on the Internet sent to me a little story which I just thought was worth a mention that is Yahoo possibly [TS]

  starting up a Youtube competitor which of course is something near and dear to both of our hearts [TS]

  and the news story is basically about several famous unnamed You Tubers who have been approached by Yahoo to try [TS]

  and bring them over to whatever this new services that Yahoo may be launching soon and someone sent that along to me [TS]

  and want to know if I was one of the people who had been approached by Yahoo. [TS]

  And I have to say I am disappointed that I was not approached by Yahoo. [TS]

  I thought oh that's kind of you know I'm I'm here right let me know ya ya. [TS]

  I'd be willing to listen to offers from Yahoo to see if they wanted me to post videos on their new service as well as [TS]

  well you would know instead of I'm sure they would prefer their I'm sure their approach is going to involve instead of [TS]

  rather than as I now see that the deal breaker yahoo who I'm not negotiating with now [TS]

  but yeah of course I would not do it instead of I think a while I will. [TS]

  I'd be very happy to see You Tube have a little bit more competition on the internet because I think competition is [TS]

  good for everybody. [TS]

  I would not exclusively switch to Yahoo unless unless there was a pile of money that was just comically astronomically [TS]

  large which I don't think it would probably be part of the deal. [TS]

  But anyway I'm sure it would be part of their due for the right people [TS]

  and that's how that's what you're going to tell you that's like the House of Cards. [TS]

  Netflix trick isn't that he was the only place to get something that's good and you couldn't spend money to make money. [TS]

  I guess I guess so I think you're trying to convince Yahoo that that's that's what they should do they should try to [TS]

  spend huge amounts of money to make people exclusive. [TS]

  Well I don't think I think if that if the only place I could watch your videos was very I would still be watching some [TS]

  videos and yet they are interesting. [TS]

  I don't I don't think that that exclusive video could ever possibly work out [TS]

  but if I thought it was it was just interesting to see [TS]

  and I would be totally I would be totally open to posting my videos on an additional place I used to. [TS]

  If you think this yeah. [TS]

  Are you saying to me that you think this poaching is staffed by if it's trickery does not involve them transferring [TS]

  their exclusivities from You Tube to of course that's what it would say. [TS]

  Surely you know you think so I guess maybe you're right. Then what's the point otherwise. [TS]

  If you could just watch the same content what one artist you know that they need to make people migrate to the only way [TS]

  to force people to migrate. [TS]

  OK so you're here is here is the put the link to the story in the center [TS]

  but the summary of it is going from like not at all. [TS]

  Named sources would do with others who are not super thrilled at the news [TS]

  but anyway supposedly Yahoo is trying to tempt big You Tubers over with higher advertising rates on their own their own [TS]

  competitor as opposed to You Tube's advertising rates. So I think you know maybe it would. [TS]

  Doesn't necessarily have to be exclusive if Yahoo could actually follow through on that deal [TS]

  and actually have higher advertising rates for content producers. [TS]

  There would there would be incentive for people to do a post on both services and then maybe like [TS]

  when I post a video on my website on Great dot com Not on You Tube I have to embed that video from youtube [TS]

  but if I was uploading on Yahoo [TS]

  and youtube I would have to pick which one of those two services do I want to add the video from and this is right [TS]

  or I'm not going to have both of them. Or or for example when I say on Twitter. [TS]

  Oh yeah there's a brand new great video and I include a link. [TS]

  I'm not going to link to both young [TS]

  and U two I see now that I think they could just try to convince people to be there. [TS]

  Yeah and then maybe demonstrate look we can get you more dollars per thousand views. [TS]

  You've been through more than me and Ben You are wiser and smarter than me. As always and you've proven it yet again. [TS]

  We're just we're just speculating here we know what [TS]

  and what might who I don't know if he hasn't occurred to you in the slightest. [TS]

  I may be one of the people that approach. [TS]

  And from your laugh at that conversation right now if you don't [TS]

  but I just assumed that you would have told me after I feel like you wouldn't you wouldn't hold a secret like that for [TS]

  me would you. [TS]

  You sneaky man well I might tell you I'm not sure I'll tell the whole pod casting Well maybe they had me sign a [TS]

  non-disclosure form or something like that you know I mean maybe I don't have to like me. [TS]

  I haven't approached me I thought I had never heard of it and it's an odd approach especially after that twenty six [TS]

  and a half minute video I put up today that probably cost me half a listener. [TS]

  Well it's well see maybe that'll be your most popular video. [TS]

  Over You know if there's any comments on that video because of course you know I approve comments now after you know [TS]

  this from previous discussions you have said you know this so that says to them it's a terrible decision [TS]

  but it has its problems but going with it for now as many many problems you know will get me on. [TS]

  You remember I think you know you haven't you haven't got black people in your videos being harassed [TS]

  and having comments made about that. No but but actuality. [TS]

  Yes [TS]

  but my my opinion is that you should just if you're going to have to do this you shouldn't just have the comments at all [TS]

  like approving the comments is just just a huge burden of labour that you're adding on to yourself that that's that's I [TS]

  would just shut down the comments instead of promising to moderate the whole discussion. [TS]

  So someone's commented on your comment saying awesome C.G. [TS]

  Pay so why is that people are saying you or someone one of my videos just doesn't seem right. [TS]

  Only thing you can say that that's fine you know we'll go back later and see if it's still there. [TS]

  I'm sure it will be I'm sure you will have taken it down nine or so anyway. [TS]

  Yeah we went [TS]

  and say yeah I will be I will be curious to see that obviously I'm very grateful to You Tube for allowing me to turn [TS]

  this into a professional living. [TS]

  But I always think more competition is better than less competition in all areas like this [TS]

  and I think it's pretty fair to say that You Tube has just no comparable competition out there on the Internet there's [TS]

  been MIA But you know it's such a different creature it's not like it's not like You Tube at all you know just [TS]

  different. Yeah it's complete it's completely different no advertising on Vimeo for once like this. [TS]

  This whole business model of ours couldn't exist on them you know which makes it a very different kind of creature. [TS]

  And in some ways better in some ways worse. [TS]

  But yeah so I would I would welcome more competition in the Internet space though is better. [TS]

  So I've had a few things going on. [TS]

  Oh yeah I was I had a few sort of negative many things [TS]

  and a few positive things because you know I'm always mindful of being too much of a staff [TS]

  but this is going to be like we discussed last time where there's going to be Brady's airplane crash corner [TS]

  and then a moaning section is Brady's Papercuts. [TS]

  I think we've got it all in Crash going already have a half an hour on the Bradys Papercuts the part where you moan [TS]

  about something small. This is because I know you're a fan of kind of Lord Of The Rings poverty type stuff. [TS]

  I watched The Desolation of Smaug smell. [TS]

  Have you sent your latest film last not because I was pretty unimpressed with the first Hobbit film that I had heard [TS]

  this one was better and that was kind of you know pulling it from the fire a bit. I beg to differ. [TS]

  Oh yeah I was pretty unimpressed by the film. I nearly turned off. [TS]

  Was I just did I just catch at the wrong time [TS]

  or is this one also dull as dishwater dishwater repetitive is something wrong with me. [TS]

  Well good so I didn't see it and I was sure you would say that you love that stuff. [TS]

  Well I was super into the original Lord Of The Rings movies coming out and I still really like those [TS]

  but they were great I love them. [TS]

  Although I even at the time I thought like me and they were just a couple years too early with the C.G.I. [TS]

  Technology they made them when the C.G.I. [TS]

  Was was totally passable [TS]

  but I even remember thinking at the time like this is not going to look so great in ten years time [TS]

  and I think the C.G.I. and These Hobbit films is with us. [TS]

  That's impressive then I guess I haven't seen the Hobbit ones I just I feel like I had no interest as soon as I [TS]

  discovered that it was I can't even. Two or three movies. Three. [TS]

  Yeah I felt that that was the single piece of information that was that just ruled it out in my brain. [TS]

  The hobbit could be a good two hour movie. It is not a trilogy. Yeah well I think maybe that is the problem. [TS]

  Anyway I was going to have bit of a rant I was hoping that you'd say oh not so great and be really nerdy about Santa [TS]

  but there's nothing to be had there so basically that the sum total of my comment that is a sort of movie Last Not that [TS]

  I didn't I tell you that my dream I had out of paper got corner so it was a very good down. [TS]

  You've got you know you've got to thrive if you have these things out there in the hope that something catches. [TS]

  Let me give you some Let me give you my happy color. [TS]

  Today there was some excellent news for Liverpool my preferred football team defeated Manchester City. [TS]

  Oh yeah three goes to church in a very important game. This was good good good. Anything you want to ask me about. [TS]

  Well three to two. [TS]

  I do know that [TS]

  when I told you earlier also that I was watching football today you said all that's good did your team get the snitch. [TS]

  Yeah this is like my field porn. [TS]

  You know as I want to ask a question [TS]

  but I've already forgot Liverpool versus someone else so it slides out of my brain just only your little watch do you [TS]

  ever watch a sport do you watch the Super Bowl. [TS]

  Now I do not watch the snow melt [TS]

  and he's forgetting something about American football American football I think has to be the most boring televised [TS]

  sport in existence. Have have you have you watched an American. [TS]

  Yes I know as much to say that I don't usually watch other games [TS]

  but I occasionally Well most if I get I think a player I had [TS]

  when I was a kid I had a childhood friend who watched football all the time and so we just sort of on [TS]

  and I remember thinking they must spend eighty percent of their time just it seems to me standing around like people [TS]

  think they're not doing anything. [TS]

  The amount of time they spend actually running on the field seems implausibly short compared to how long it's on T.V. [TS]

  and I know if I can if I can find it here [TS]

  but a couple weeks ago I found some info graphic where someone actually broke down the amount of time that the Super [TS]

  Bowl takes including advertising and the pauses and whatever was I think something like. [TS]

  Correct me if I'm wrong [TS]

  but I think the Super Bowl is broadcast for seven hours in that amount of time there's three minutes of running on the [TS]

  field and smashing into each other. It's just unbelievable that anyone can sit through can sit through that. [TS]

  I don't I don't understand this. So I do not watch the Super Bowl and they're right. [TS]

  I don't I just don't watch sports I mean I know I sort of tease you about. [TS]

  I don't mean to bemoan people who follow sports like everybody's into their own thing [TS]

  and I'm into stuff that is just would be shockingly boring for other people. [TS]

  Like this is what makes the world interesting places. Different people have different interests. [TS]

  But I just I can't say I have a lot of interest in any sports I'm trying to think when I know it [TS]

  when I was a very little kid my father is not also a into sports kind of guy but [TS]

  when I was a little kid my father took me to Yankee Stadium in New York and we had we go watch a baseball game. [TS]

  I'm a big Yankees fan. [TS]

  Starting all the time and so so we went and we did the thing you go you get like hotdogging sit in the stadium [TS]

  and you watch it and we left after a couple of innings because we were both just very bored. [TS]

  But my father felt that it was his responsibility as a dad in New York to take me to at least one baseball game. [TS]

  But we both were just bored to death. So why are we even friends Greg. [TS]

  Well that's I think partly I feel like we're friends [TS]

  and OK to have very different friends because you don't you don't want me to watch sports with you I think that would [TS]

  be a problem if it sounds like that was huge for anyone to Mount Everest with now [TS]

  but you know I'm always happy to talk to you. We're also that we're also work colleagues. [TS]

  That's the thing this is like is like Internet water cooler. [TS]

  We were doing with the podcast talking about business but I had one other great triumph today. [TS]

  I mirror on the wall the great big heavy mirror I am unspeakably that a D.I.Y. [TS]

  Around the house and this was the third big mirror that I had to hang [TS]

  and the first I had ended up not straight with him [TS]

  and these were light days with high stakes mirrors where like you have to put the screw holes into walls before you [TS]

  hang the mirror so there's no like fine tuning afterwards you know leaning side by as on the wire this was like you get [TS]

  it wrong or you die and I died twice. [TS]

  But today this was this I was at the end of my tether and I was like OK I'll try one more [TS]

  and then if it doesn't work I'm never doing it again and I hung up and it's straight and it's a thing of beauty [TS]

  and dismay and good luck I hope in the mirror. Just look today. Triumphantly and then sat down to watch the football. [TS]

  Watch my tame wind it was a real I had a moment to moment and then I sent you the picture of like the mirror [TS]

  and the T.V. In the same shop to look at my life is and you say that all went after this value. [TS]

  No that is not at all what happened that's what happened. I'm going to pull this up here. [TS]

  What actually happened here how I actually did sort of said I think I'm just so distracted by the picture. [TS]

  You did say watching sport in a house containing objects. [TS]

  Bliss smiley face then and then here is a picture that is a very big mirror that you had to hang up. [TS]

  But there are there are a lot of things in this picture one of which I have to ask this is a picture of Brady's house [TS]

  by the way next to the T.V. That has the sports game on it you have a phone that is an old style rotary phone. [TS]

  Yeah and I am I am suspicious as to whether [TS]

  or not this is a functioning phone because it's an odd place in the house to have a phone. [TS]

  Well let me let me put your mind a it is a functioning phone. [TS]

  Unfortunately because we don't use a landline and we generally want to land on in the house [TS]

  but just occasionally you need to let people require them back like we were able to get a mortgage without having a [TS]

  land ought to have limits. If I complain about this for a minute. [TS]

  Yeah yeah I know that I know this exact thing is because we have just moved in and out and I run into the same thing [TS]

  and I got I get into an argument with BT British Telecom because I was I was trying to get something sorted out with [TS]

  our with our Internet connection and [TS]

  and they were like oh well we're going to we're going to call you on on your landline phone to continue this [TS]

  conversation. So I don't have a landline phone I don't have a phone. [TS]

  Only in my house and things that are you know with the BT purse [TS]

  and I felt like what is this one nine hundred fifty that you have my cell phone number in. [TS]

  Like that's why your cult like you accepted this phone call you know it's me. [TS]

  It just infuriating that that we have to talk on the phone. [TS]

  I don't have a landline phone I don't want to land line phone [TS]

  and I don't want to machine in my house that just randomly rings that was that was supposed to be a positive corner [TS]

  they were denied you know tended to like another man moan about the companies that exist. [TS]

  Oh yeah yeah that's just that just your fundamental personality Bradys are just a winder why I think you like living on [TS]

  something you kind of drag that one down the winching on August I just wanted you to say good stuff on the mirror [TS]

  or you could say what I want to ask you you good handy man around the house testimony I have I have just moved house. [TS]

  I'm sorry that I did not compliment you on your marriage it's very well hung your mirror so you happy now. [TS]

  Yes I don't often find the occasion for D.I.Y. [TS]

  Stuff so because I guess you don't hang pictures and things do you just have this on the stack what walls [TS]

  and you had some pictures in our in our old place and there's a couple that come up now [TS]

  but I mean I can I can put a tiny nail in the wall. You do pixel know your house. [TS]

  We had if we had a few pictures on the wall. [TS]

  Printed on photographic paper like yeah yeah there are a couple pictures that we have we got. [TS]

  Like Richard my wife took and we printed out and put it on the walls. [TS]

  Not not a whole lot but just just some you know I don't I don't require walls to be totally barren. [TS]

  I think pics pictures are fine but because I'm renting most of the D.I.Y. [TS]

  Stuff the landlord wouldn't even want you to do it on your own. [TS]

  Even back at the jail and really make a mess of things like I don't. [TS]

  Yeah so so I would say that in my adult life I have not had a great deal of experience in being able to flex my D.I.Y. [TS]

  Muscles because I live in places. [TS]

  I do not own someone else owns them [TS]

  and they want you to call if there's something that needs fixing because the last thing they want is a tenant who has [TS]

  to get electrocuted himself to death in their apartment because he was trying to fix something with the wiring [TS]

  or install a new light bulb [TS]

  or something else so yeah I think I think that I feel like you seem to see every activity that you can perform [TS]

  physically as like you just attach a death risk to it like like we come to my Everest. No I could die. [TS]

  Well you drill a hole in the wall. [TS]

  I know I could die if I also thought maybe I was the morbid one here but I think I'm not so sure. [TS]

  Well first of all I would not say that I could die. [TS]

  If you listen to your previous discussion I talk about the increasing probability of death [TS]

  and I would help her to keep that small even in activity like sitting in a chair all day [TS]

  and never exercising that increases probability of of death in an insidious non visible way. [TS]

  So you counter that by exercise or by walking around so it is not that I think of all physical activities as as. [TS]

  Death inducing. No no they think of non-physical activities. Jeff That's right. I think everything is different. [TS]

  Well everything comes with some probability of death increase or death decrease [TS]

  and you have to you have to weigh those concerns you know going to the gym. [TS]

  You can die of a heart attack on the treadmill [TS]

  but part of it is likely speaking if you're on the if you're in the gym you're exercising that is you're moving death [TS]

  further away than you are bringing him closer if you are in the gym even though you can be the unlucky heart attack [TS]

  lottery winner on the treadmill at the gym. [TS]

  So ironic that you chose the treadmill as the for the analogy of making it appear that way. Yes that's a good point. [TS]

  So yeah that's changing. [TS]

  It's change the topic to the topic of the day we're going to have on a sound effect here or do we just do it. [TS]

  I guess we can we can just do it I'm still not sure about these topics and running I think you said [TS]

  but I guess because we don't really have a topic we just have a topic that if we ran out of stuff to say talk about. [TS]

  And last time we'd never even did the topic. [TS]

  Yeah that's true but I think this time we need to like you know we need we need we need to move on from our lives [TS]

  and when something on a grander scale. [TS]

  So yes I guess you're right [TS]

  and so I there was there was something that I did sort of want to talk about which which I guess could be the topic [TS]

  and I have some notes here it might be a little a little scatterbrained. [TS]

  So as always I will I will rely on you to ask some questions to help you through this but. [TS]

  Because in our previous podcasts we kind of touched on the the world of education [TS]

  and listeners will know that I was a teacher [TS]

  and I thought I kept putting off some thoughts about education for for a future episode [TS]

  and so I think this is this is maybe the time to talk about it [TS]

  and I want to phrase this this topic as what does schools really do or you know [TS]

  or what is the purpose that schools serve in society [TS]

  and that that is very distinct from the question of what do we want schools to do you know [TS]

  or what schools should do so that I feel like I don't want to talk about ideal schools I want to just I want to bring [TS]

  up what I think is perhaps a very grim view of what schools actually do in society. [TS]

  So so rather not what are schools for it to be. [TS]

  More like what are schools achieving or what are they [TS]

  or not achieving achieving that might be an interesting interesting way to put just those contribute to contribute is. [TS]

  an overly optimistic word I.K. [TS]

  OK so I already have to turn here that this this is going to be something along the lines of you thinking that schools [TS]

  are not doing a brilliant thing for society. [TS]

  Well I what I would say is that I think that that schools are not necessarily doing what people say they do. [TS]

  Where when you have a conversation about schools or people talk about education [TS]

  and education is is one of these topics that I think is it's. [TS]

  It's interesting because everybody kind of has this experience right you are a kid and you grew up and [TS]

  and you go to school and everybody's experience this sort of in the Western world that school is a huge part of life [TS]

  and and so everyone kind of has a vested interest in this game right you're a parent and you send your kid to school [TS]

  and then you have memories of what it was like when you were at school and I think this is also why education [TS]

  and funding education and teachers [TS]

  and teachers unions like there are always very hot political topics because it's the kind of thing that everybody can [TS]

  get involved in because everybody has an experience of having gone to school and what what they thought about it [TS]

  and they also seem to me like people who are going to schools in the education system etc And that political kind of [TS]

  way [TS]

  but they're also a bit of a sacred cow skulls on their life like there's uniform agreement that schools are a good thing. [TS]

  Yes yes that's what I mean it's a hot topic because it can be argued about from from both sides. [TS]

  Schools can be revered. People can can hate their local school system or whatever it is but it's OK. [TS]

  It's impossible I think to to not have contention over schools because everybody experiences it in a very direct way [TS]

  where there are tons of topics in politics that people just have no interest [TS]

  or caring because they didn't spend you know twelve years of their life involved in this thing [TS]

  and I know this isn't we're talking about it just reminds me can go line is down to you like for example I don't have [TS]

  children but I have a tremendous interest in schools in my area because of how it affects the price of my house. [TS]

  Right right. Yeah yeah. [TS]

  The ever popular getting into a good school district method of human relocation after child child time yeah it's like [TS]

  that that has huge knock on effect for property market. [TS]

  If my local school suddenly takes a dive so does my house prices [TS]

  and then suddenly I care tremendously about what's going on at my local school. [TS]

  Right right that you're not even you don't even have a kid in that school but it's not as effective. [TS]

  Yeah that's why every everybody gets kind of tangled up tangled up in this in this system. [TS]

  So tell me what you're thinking. Yes So here's here's the starting point from that is. [TS]

  Schools are a stance of glee about learning I mean I don't know a more fundamental statement than that to say that [TS]

  schools are what we think of as where people go to learn. Yeah right. [TS]

  It couldn't be couldn't be more basic than that and the rest learn on that kind of academic level [TS]

  or just sort of a socialization type level. [TS]

  Yeah learn in the in the broadest sense of the word yet right that's a school where people could learn [TS]

  and this is I sort of alluded to it. [TS]

  I sort of alluded to this in the previous podcast from my own time as a teacher but. [TS]

  Something that if you are paying attention if you're sort of deluding yourself as a teacher you can very quickly pick [TS]

  up on the fact that at least from the academic side students are not learning a whole lot in school in terms of actual [TS]

  material that you are theoretically teaching so I would do say a year of physics [TS]

  and then I would say even after a single summer vacation if kids come back in the next year [TS]

  and you start asking them a bunch of physics questions almost all of that information is just completely gone. [TS]

  I think of summers as almost a time is like children are able to just shake their brain free of all of the things that [TS]

  have been trying to stuffed in them over over the course of an academic year [TS]

  and they come back to school right all fresh an empty right you know sometimes the way can kind of feel it as a teacher [TS]

  and we do all of this before. [TS]

  Shouldn't you have learned and again I have this is for for all subjects [TS]

  and I don't say it's not because it sounds a bit familiar to your language bashing from a couple of months ago that [TS]

  looks like the same thing about all subjects now. [TS]

  Yeah I am putting I'm putting this is not language in particular employment for all subjects [TS]

  and I mean I've even seen some some interesting kind like follow up studies. [TS]

  Asking post high school graduates a year later in the most basic questions from some of the subjects that they took [TS]

  and you know the answers are just dismal. [TS]

  You know it's just no better than than a random member of the population know how how much they actually remember from [TS]

  a course that they've been through. [TS]

  So I think that's that's kind of an interesting thing to note right that schools are supposedly teaching kids all day [TS]

  long all kinds of stuff about the world and about literature and about art and about science but they do this in. [TS]

  From a Sheehan is just so rapidly lost [TS]

  or there's even a question about how much of it did kids ever learn in the first place which again if you are if you [TS]

  are a teacher you can definitely see that first hand that it might even be optimistic to talk about this knowledge [TS]

  having been lost from some students because there's a presumption that it was ever there in the first place so I think [TS]

  that that's that's a this is kind of like a starting point is there is less learning than I think people kind of talk [TS]

  about when they talk about schools. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  but a blind man talk if I if I I don't remember I can't remember if you asked me to tell you I learned SCO I can't remember [TS]

  all these equations I learnt mathematics and I can't remember these language things [TS]

  and I can't remember things about Shakespeare. [TS]

  But if I didn't go disco for all that time I don't think I'd be the same guy talking to you than I am now I think I [TS]

  think you are throwing away a lot of intangible stuff I think you're throwing away a bit is the kind of missed in the [TS]

  component of SCO where the actual just the process of learning is teaches you a lot [TS]

  and makes you the person you become. So even though I can't remember exactly. I especially I'm still like. [TS]

  I still learned how to learn and I learned how to how to become a fully functioning human [TS]

  and I think just applying the simple test of do you remember Newton's equations that I that you were taught last year [TS]

  is I think that's just over simplifying learning in education. [TS]

  Right now I will grant that there are there are other things that are going on in school [TS]

  and I would actually do there are things that kids genuinely learn but I think a statement like. Had I not gone. [TS]

  Through school I would be a different person. [TS]

  Is is a truism but had you spent twelve years of your life doing anything else that statement would also be true. [TS]

  Why do you do I get such a big chunk of time. [TS]

  I wouldn't write if impression of an inferior I think I would be not as high functioning. [TS]

  OK Yes I think that that's a that's a better statement to say again [TS]

  and I think I think that there is there is something to that. [TS]

  But so the question about learning I think kind of leans in to what I wanted to bring up about this which is if we if [TS]

  we start from the position that schools maybe can't be about learning objective facts right which is something that you [TS]

  would agree to it was well it can't be about teaching a whole bunch of kids specific facts that they remember later [TS]

  because they because they don't remember it later it's something else something else is kind of going on here [TS]

  and this is this would come up in my own classes I think I mentioned this before but kids would ask me you know [TS]

  when are we ever going to use this you know we're teaching them physics [TS]

  and I would just I would straight up say you're never going to you're never going to use it. [TS]

  There is never a butler in Karate Kid. [TS]

  DANIEL The very sight it was like when I'm either going to paint the fence [TS]

  and Mr Miyagi was like Don't worry this will come in handy you know [TS]

  and then it did he had these things ingrained into him that made him like autumn in the final karate tournament skill [TS]

  level. [TS]

  It's like what am I going to use Newton's equations we might not use use equations [TS]

  but trust me this this will help you win the big fight at the end of everything. [TS]

  What is the big fight in the end of this analogy. I'm not quite sure are a lot of what you got is a Karate Kid. [TS]

  Yeah I could see better now. But let me let me follow through on this right here. [TS]

  So this it always lead to a little a little bit. [TS]

  Discussion sometimes in classes which is kind of happy to have you never get a lesson so they go Well you know well [TS]

  what are we doing here. [TS]

  Right here are the teachers tell us stories about how we're going to need this in the future [TS]

  or how it's going to help us win the big fight. You know it's eventually going to be useful. [TS]

  You know maybe not today but you and I would I would not take that position yet [TS]

  and my position is that look the reason the reason you are here you know you're taking this class [TS]

  and your goal is to get good grades because those grades are signaling qualities about you to the outside world [TS]

  and that is the core of what schools do from a societal perspective they receive. [TS]

  That's exactly it they're they're a kind of sieve [TS]

  and I think this is this is it's like an unhappy way to look at schools [TS]

  but I do think that it is a relatively accurate way to look at schools. [TS]

  But but even more so that the simple fact is is very interesting so in. [TS]

  If this is comes up in economics sometimes and I want to look at his name. [TS]

  I just want to I just want to get it right some of the stuff is based on the some as a mere talk about today is from [TS]

  the work of an economist in particular called Bryan Caplan who is talking about what happens to kids in various stages [TS]

  of education. [TS]

  And so the the key points here that are interesting is OK so you look at this for America if you look at the earnings [TS]

  for example you know earnings are not everything but we're trying to get some kind of measure how much too high. [TS]

  School graduates earn vs non high school graduates [TS]

  and turns out the high school graduates earn about fifty percent more each year than not high school graduates. [TS]

  Yeah there's no surprise there [TS]

  but it's not like a shocking piece of information I don't think that if you go to high school you can get a better job. [TS]

  But the really interesting thing in those statistics is that basically going to a little bit of high school [TS]

  or even going to most of high school is just totally worthless in terms of earnings right so if you go to high school [TS]

  for three and a half years. [TS]

  But you know you miss out on some class in the final year you might as well have not gone to high school at all. [TS]

  If you don't get that piece of paper if you don't get that degree [TS]

  and Thomason matter that you have done ninety nine percent of the work [TS]

  and the interesting thing about that is this is something called you know is called signaling in economics which means [TS]

  that that piece of paper is acting as a stamp that says something about you as a person you you made it through all of [TS]

  all of this. This this series of hoops that we have put up for you. [TS]

  And that piece of paper is is the thing that lets employers for example know that you have made it through all of these [TS]

  these hoops but you would expect that if school was preparing you for the real world [TS]

  and this is again in the broadest possible way social skills interacting with people just learning how to be a good [TS]

  person all of which you know also matters for people's lives and their working experiences. [TS]

  You would expect to see more of an effect as people go through high school that three years in that should if school is [TS]

  teaching you something anything about you. [TS]

  Assistance in the real world three years of high school should be much better than one year of high school so the [TS]

  stagnant earnings figures would change that I would be to step jump it would they. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  and so from from the the numbers that I saw blog I think it was something like year one of high school increases your [TS]

  earnings ten percent year two is like five percent. [TS]

  Year three does nothing and then the remaining chunk of it that gets you up to fifty happens only when you graduate [TS]

  and you think there should be more of a linear progression with that [TS]

  and it's the same thing for colleges that the earnings difference for going to college was eighty percent versus not [TS]

  going to college or people who go to college earn eighty percent or more. And I know I agree with you here. [TS]

  I agree that schools have this have the SIV effect in society and that but I do think [TS]

  and you acknowledge this yourself. We're talking about money here. [TS]

  And when it comes to money and things [TS]

  and career opportunities education does have this this role this selective role [TS]

  and I know it gets really political After that we talk about money and exclusive schools [TS]

  and there's a lot there's a lot that we could talk about and that's not what we are talking about. [TS]

  But [TS]

  when it comes to some of the other things that can be measured like your ability to make a phone call to the bank to hang [TS]

  a mirror to get along in society to raise children to do a lot of the other things that don't involve putting money in [TS]

  your pocket. [TS]

  I think they're probably there would be a correlation between how much education you had [TS]

  and how well you do those things so I think saying that education is not contributing to people unless they you know [TS]

  make the next step or get through that next finishing type is unfair and I do think that education in riches people. [TS]

  In other ways not just about money and career achievements. Now there is an interesting question in here. [TS]

  But let's pick a pick the worst example probably from the bunch that that you just that raising children you know go [TS]

  going to college makes you a better parent. [TS]

  Neither of which you [TS]

  and you're not done we should acknowledge that we're going to I do not have children you do not have children. [TS]

  So let's let's talk about children job correctly and that list done to protect some of the parents out there. [TS]

  Well yeah I've been to college so I'm going to be a better parent. [TS]

  But first let's take that that that statement that question [TS]

  or yeah yeah right that that going to college makes you a better parent. [TS]

  I don't think going to college make sure that a parent [TS]

  or don't you have more years educated well what you're saying is that school is the thing that makes you educated so [TS]

  it's the schooling that makes you a better parent. [TS]

  That's that's sort of the position that saying they're OK well let's era is what they call it you go with it [TS]

  and I think there are other things that can also contribute to have a parent you probably will behave like like your [TS]

  parents or other things that happen in your life but there are many things [TS]

  but do you think that more years of schooling would make you a better parent. Oh oh. [TS]

  Things all other things being all other things being equal. Yeah I think probably you learn. Yeah OK I was OK with yes. [TS]

  OK so so that the very interesting thing there is is your comment about all other things being equal. [TS]

  Yeah I guess I'm not. [TS]

  Neither of us are saying that that this this effect is true [TS]

  but we're just using this discussion point the question is do you people who go to college have a better chance of [TS]

  being better parents. Or is it the college that makes them in this example better parents. Can I just be clear. [TS]

  College means I'm sorry I'm being you know I just wrote in here just after high school like university level. [TS]

  OK Well I think I'm not really thinking about say I only went to college for one year myself so then I got a job [TS]

  and left. But so you mean like sixth form college. [TS]

  None and I started doing a degree and then I got offered a job at a newspaper [TS]

  and I said we don't want you to have a degree I would rather train yourselves. [TS]

  So there are a lot of save me a few years. Oh I said I'd go back and do a part time job. [TS]

  OK OK Well I think why why why would you ever go back. Because I don't need a piece of paper right. [TS]

  See this is exactly right that is the only reason you won't go back because there's nothing in your life right now with [TS]

  the kind of career that you have that that piece of paper speaks to right that that piece of paper improves you don't [TS]

  need that signal to any employer you know or [TS]

  or any any person in that kind of position to prove that you're a certain kind of yelps courtesy because I've done the [TS]

  jobs and I now can you leave a lot of things and I'm not disagreeing that. There is this exclusive A T C of function. [TS]

  This is an elective ity function to education but to take it to the other extreme. [TS]

  If [TS]

  when I was five years old my parents said we're not going to send you to school Grady we're just going to let you play [TS]

  cricket in the backyard and swim in the pool. I definitely would not have got that job at the newspaper. [TS]

  So my education is is what gave me that luxury of towards the end they have to decide whether [TS]

  or not to finish my degree because I was already you know a person of you know I had abilities and I had knowledge [TS]

  and you know I had social skills that I had developed through my time at school and art. Some other. [TS]

  If you think Major sping sitting around at home [TS]

  and not being schooled author of a school homeschooled would have made no difference. I probably would take issue with. [TS]

  Well this is alt and also just totally anecdotally but I I know people who are homeschooled [TS]

  and basically left to their own devices who basically became educated people on their own [TS]

  and that's of course a non-standard anecdotes of anecdotes not a not a good argument [TS]

  but I think there's a there's a question of like what kind of person are you certain kinds of people are inclined [TS]

  towards educating themselves so it's not entirely impossible [TS]

  but to go back to what you're saying I would say that my view of what you learn in school. [TS]

  The earlier school starts the more important it is. [TS]

  So I can see kids in primary school [TS]

  and I think maybe per hour those are some of the best times people ever spend in schools. [TS]

  Yeah because first of all you're learning how to tie your shoes right [TS]

  when it is genuinely like I use that every day I don't know [TS]

  and yeah I don't know what teacher taught me to tie my shoes [TS]

  but that's been great yes the reading one I think is the best bang for the buck ever. [TS]

  Humans don't want to learn to read that's not a very natural thing you have to put them especially tiny humans in it in [TS]

  a constrained environment where you're just going to learn this is not going to like it [TS]

  but we know we know we know better for you [TS]

  and also I think in primary school I think it is very obvious if you are hanging out with primary school kids they're [TS]

  learning how to not be animals. [TS]

  They're learning you can't bite someone when you're angry you know they're they're learning. [TS]

  You can't just pee on the floor you know or like if you're going to throw up you have to go to the bathroom. [TS]

  They're learning just not to be tiny tiny animals. [TS]

  I'm just thank you for nothing and one time and you can watch where everyone has a. [TS]

  But I like I love that as a slogan for a SCO to see if you can go where we will teach you not to be an animal. [TS]

  Yes but that's I think that that is what primary school is doing [TS]

  and it's you know we're putting these little kids under all these constraints where their brains have to learn like you [TS]

  I mean so unnatural for a little kid [TS]

  but well you know welcome to the world you're going to have to sit indoors in a room for long periods of time [TS]

  and you're not going to want to do it but we're going to get this started right away [TS]

  and that's that's kind of what primary school is and by the time you get to say a secondary school [TS]

  or high school kids have gotten used to that. [TS]

  They're there they're familiar with this and they're kind of like the statements of the kind of changes. [TS]

  Yeah but you still looting other things you're learning how to. [TS]

  Talk to Girls [TS]

  or you're learning how to interact with adults because at that point you start having a different dynamic with the [TS]

  teachers and you know you start learning more subtle things about human interaction that's a bit less biased [TS]

  and don't bite people. [TS]

  Yeah don't pee on the floor but I think through school that stuff's always going on that socialization [TS]

  but I'll bet also probably at the education level that things starts happening you learn how to rather than learning [TS]

  how to read and write. You learn how to persuade or to make an argument. [TS]

  So even though you don't remember the argument you made about Hamlet you were learning how to make an argument in that [TS]

  essay that you were writing for your teacher that's what I mean about learning to learn and learning to do things. [TS]

  So even though you don't remember facts [TS]

  and figures that those things that you picked up at that time I think stick with you make you what you are later on [TS]

  whether or not there's an alternative to school. [TS]

  Well you go ahead and put one to me but I think school does serve that purpose. [TS]

  Here here is here's again like my counter feeling to this which is what the learning to learn. [TS]

  Argument I would say that when I [TS]

  when I have this discussion with people which obviously can get heated discussion this is this is not you know this is [TS]

  not for you particular [TS]

  but in general the people who are you learning to learn are people who generally had positive experiences in school. [TS]

  They are the people who were academically successful they are the people who applied to and got into universities. [TS]

  It's an argument that comes from a particular section of the school age population or the educated population. [TS]

  I'm not convinced necessarily that schools teach kids how to learn how to learn. [TS]

  I think that's that's it's a kind of personality trait in certain kinds of kids which can be brought out by schools. [TS]

  It could be brought out by all kinds of other things as well [TS]

  but I think that it's it's it's wrong to say that the school is the thing that teaches that. [TS]

  And part of this is just looking at you know dropout rates from schools. [TS]

  Yeah I know it's a high school dropout rates you know roughly it's ten percent of kids go to high school in America [TS]

  drop out. It's relatively low. [TS]

  But then when you look at kids who go to kids who apply to [TS]

  and are accepted to college you know forty percent of them don't make it out with a bachelor's degree within six years [TS]

  or if they withdraw [TS]

  and you're already talking about a relatively small portion of the population who goes to college anyway which is in [TS]

  the U.S. In the U.K. [TS]

  It's about thirty percent of the population twenty five to thirty percent has college degrees [TS]

  and so I just I feel like. The learning to learn argument I just don't think it is convincing. [TS]

  I think you mean like a personality trait [TS]

  and it has made us sort of fit into you know you some scotched any argument before I could make it by saying that I [TS]

  think laced [TS]

  but I think maybe the best way for you to persuade me of what you're trying to get across here is give me an alternative [TS]

  give me an alternative that will give society all the things it needs that doesn't involve schools. [TS]

  Well done [TS]

  and I'm here this is this is why I want to bound this argument in the beginning I am trying to make a sort of value [TS]

  neutral argument that this this is what schools do. [TS]

  I don't even necessarily think it's bad because in some sense right that like so. [TS]

  So flip it around with students and things [TS]

  but if you talk about employers employers need some kind of way to filter out people who who apply for jobs [TS]

  or anything I want to find a way to discriminate. [TS]

  That's exactly it and you know like that's that's the harsh reality of life. [TS]

  If you post a job and you get two hundred job applications you need some way to filter those things down [TS]

  and if you're applying for. If you're. [TS]

  If you want a relatively that let's OK let's say you're you you're you have a job [TS]

  and you're looking for a smart person. [TS]

  Now you get a whole bunch of applications more likely than not the people who went to college [TS]

  and graduated college are probably smarter than the people who failed out of high school. [TS]

  Now that's not to say that everybody who failed out of high school isn't smart. [TS]

  But it's like it's like the death thing we were talking about before. It's a statistics game. [TS]

  You have you have to play the odds here and you're going to pick the college educated person. [TS]

  I also think very interesting Leigh that the other thing is. [TS]

  Getting stamped on to kids by you have past high school step you have passed college step isn't actually necessarily [TS]

  primarily intelligence. [TS]

  I think it's it's largely a certain kind of conscientiousness that's really the bard to pass with high school [TS]

  and with college. Can you keep track of all of these assignments that we have given you. [TS]

  Are you able to show up a certain amount of times or are you are you able to. We're giving you assignments. [TS]

  Are you able to do enough of those assignments to the specifications that are required. [TS]

  I actually think that's kind of the primary thing that schools are really testing kids for certified like a fifteen [TS]

  year stickability test. Yes this is exactly right and that's this is one of the reasons why why in school so long. [TS]

  Because your work life is long and boring [TS]

  and we need to make sure that you are a person who has proven they are able to you know do a long and boring routine [TS]

  and you're able to make your way through it and get it and get certified. [TS]

  Now again this is not to say that people don't learn anything that people don't learn things in school. [TS]

  That's that's not my argument I don't nothing is is learned but I think the primary purpose [TS]

  or the primary function of schools in a society is to act as a kind of filter. [TS]

  But that kind of approval process for people entering the labor market [TS]

  and that's that's why there's such a high premium on graduating whereas attending some college is is almost as as [TS]

  worthless as doing no college at all. [TS]

  There's a little bit of a benefit but not a huge benefit when you're looking at the at the population as a whole. So. [TS]

  And I guess. [TS]

  I mention this because I always really like talking to students when I could [TS]

  and I think a lot of kids ask me about universities and jobs [TS]

  and I think it's because maybe I gave more direct answers than some other teachers gave sometimes. [TS]

  And [TS]

  and I would say that there was a certain there's a certain kind of kid particularly a certain kind of both conscientious [TS]

  kids [TS]

  and both very smart kids who it felt like they were able to deal with school a lot better if they kind of faced the true [TS]

  nature of it that like what you know what this is is a certification process. [TS]

  You know we are certifying that at some point you were diligent enough to be able to get through some difficult classes. [TS]

  We're not expecting you to remember this stuff later. [TS]

  And I just felt like some some kids really reacted very well to that of kind of understanding oh OK this is the game [TS]

  that's going on here. I think kids don't react well to that how they kids a home that is bad information. [TS]

  I know what I would say is that the other reactions that I got were either just. [TS]

  Sort of a laughing kind of incredulity. Oh he's being silly. [TS]

  You know he's [TS]

  and I have to say if I was if I was talking to kids one on one it's a slightly different conversation if I'm doing it [TS]

  in front of the whole class. [TS]

  But if I was talking to a group of kids I'd do it in kind of a I do it in kind of a funnier way so it can be played off [TS]

  as like oh maybe I'm not being entirely serious but you can see some kids were like Oh I think he does really mean. [TS]

  So I would say either you get a kind of you know this is this is really funny or just kind of indifference [TS]

  but yeah I I thought that there were definitely kid. [TS]

  Those who received this information well and felt like school made more sense. [TS]

  It was more understandable [TS]

  and it was it was more tolerable than this kind of implicit impression that kids have of like we're teaching you all of [TS]

  these things so that you know these things but you won't you won't know these things in a year. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  and I was I was always really up front about that with the kids because my funny kids will assume that because you're a [TS]

  teacher you know all the things [TS]

  and all the other subjects which is just always Larry is in the equivalent of home room at the start of the day care [TS]

  when I'm just in charge of a bunch of kids in there are frantically trying to do their homework at the last minute of [TS]

  course you know they would ask me questions about what I would say I don't know anything at all about that subject I [TS]

  don't remember this in the slightest. [TS]

  And they they be horrified you know your teacher you went to school you're supposed to be one of the students. [TS]

  So yeah [TS]

  but I don't remember that you know I didn't it doesn't matter what mattered was that I I was able to do it at the time [TS]

  and I had the certification sat I have passed high school which makes me trustworthy enough to Bosler you guys around. [TS]

  Yes OK if you are right if you are right about this why school not to try to sway Why is it why has it got this other [TS]

  spin to it why. Why isn't school betrayed is this particular T. [TS]

  Test this conscientiousness test I mean I mean I think it is that it was rhetorical you know because this is not. [TS]

  So I think this is an accurate view of the world but this is not a view of the world that people want to have. [TS]

  People don't want to think you know let's let's take some some some college graduate people don't want to think oh I [TS]

  spent sixteen years undergoing an enduring test right to prove that I was able to do it. [TS]

  You want you want to think oh I went to college and I learned how to think [TS]

  and I learned all of these these other skills and that was that. Like that's the explicit. [TS]

  State what you think that makes a sane Mandane follow up doesn't make it pointless. [TS]

  Let people know that [TS]

  when they finish a marathon because they they showed this great faith of insurance why not be thrown out. [TS]

  Yeah yeah I think the insurance the insurance one there is is is an interesting comparison yes. [TS]

  Not to people value mental insurance less than physical endurance I would say maybe so maybe rightly so. [TS]

  Physical insurance just seems much more natively impressive [TS]

  but I also think this is the kind of thing where again thinking about my time as a teacher I would say that I was I was [TS]

  sometimes relatively unpopular in conversations with other teachers in the staff room because. [TS]

  As a teacher you want to have this feeling of like oh I am I'm Cheech I'm shaping the next generation [TS]

  and inspiring a bunch of young minds right and they're all they're learning all these things for me when we met [TS]

  when we did the podcast a couple of weeks ago about whether or not learning languages was a good thing [TS]

  and you knew you were going to get some flak like you what you even you were braced for a backlash. [TS]

  Yes Do you think what you're saying here will upset people in the same way [TS]

  or do you think people will say he's talking sense of the education system is just it's a sea of perspective a day so [TS]

  that institutions and or employers can discriminate later on. That's that's a really good question. [TS]

  That's a really good question [TS]

  and I almost feel like I how could this topic be controversial in some ways like I can be of both lives about this like [TS]

  if I could start to feel like look into your heart of hearts with the experience that that I had I had as as a teacher [TS]

  is is kind of. [TS]

  It's as a general policy I find there have been opinions that I have [TS]

  or positions that I have come to in my life that I have not wanted to come to [TS]

  but I feel like I have I have been forced into them through experience [TS]

  and then through reading up on that kind of experience. I didn't I didn't set out to find this out. [TS]

  I feel like I was pushed into this by experience [TS]

  and so that's why I almost feel like it's it's in some ways it's remarkably uncontroversial. [TS]

  It will upset a lot of changes. Yeah it probably will but I will say again like I was a teacher. [TS]

  I was I was one of you. The thing that I was I was going to come back to back to earlier. [TS]

  We're talking about the benefits of school is there is there's a term which is called warehousing [TS]

  and in this case schools are warehousing students at their warehouse in kids and what's the benefit you get from that. [TS]

  Again from a societal perspective it's not like almost It doesn't have anything to do with what's happening to the kids [TS]

  in the box that you put them the anonymous benefit to society is like. [TS]

  State provided daycare for all children and what does that mean. [TS]

  Parents like their their labor is freed up or I think they can go to work [TS]

  and their kids are taken care of for a huge portion of the year [TS]

  and this is like another kind of benefit that that school provides. [TS]

  You imagine a world without school where parents had to provide their own daycare for a kid like me would just be [TS]

  terrible right. Obviously you need to do something with kids all day long. [TS]

  But once we pass child labor laws and you can't have them working in factories anymore which again is a good thing. [TS]

  You need to have them go somewhere [TS]

  and school is the place that they go so this is another kind of effect that you get from schools is is being able to [TS]

  put the kids somewhere. [TS]

  And we often tell ourselves that they're learning a whole bunch of stuff all day long in there because it's better than [TS]

  thinking of them as as in like a little box [TS]

  or you know in like a little prison which would be even a worse way to put it. [TS]

  But schools have remarkably similar to prison sometimes. Can I say to my sister who is a schoolteacher. [TS]

  Yeah I think she's brilliant. [TS]

  I'm sure she is not enough I'm going to send this on in some ways I want to hear what she has to say [TS]

  and otherwise I will also I have to I have to defend myself here as well as for a little moment which is that I do know [TS]

  for many many a parent teacher conferences parents were were very happy to have their kids in my class it's people [TS]

  thinking I was some kind of awful unpopular grumpy teacher like my own experience was that parents were very happy if [TS]

  their kids were in my physics class and I know kids who really like being in my physics. So I wasn't a mean teacher. [TS]

  This doesn't this doesn't stem from disliking being a teacher. I really enjoyed the classroom time. [TS]

  I thought that was great. [TS]

  I tried to have lessons that were relatively fun of course you have these horrible constraints as a teacher about what [TS]

  you can and can't do but. Like that that part of being in the classroom and teaching. [TS]

  I really liked [TS]

  and I think as best as possible with a subject like physics I think I tried to make it as interesting as possible for [TS]

  the students who were there [TS]

  but that I said that still doesn't change the fact that I don't expect any of the kids that I taught six years ago to [TS]

  necessarily remember anything that we did. [TS]

  But I know that the kids did well on exams and then hopefully they went off to university and some of them have reeled. [TS]

  Out in the in the real world now. [TS]

  Well I think if you put it out there and I actually like I said I actually really agree with it [TS]

  when I was talking to Mrs number five and I said Gray wants to talk about what's the purpose of schools. [TS]

  She said Well I think it's learning [TS]

  and socialization of young people the first thing I did think to myself was you know I think it's also this kind of [TS]

  this selectivity process yeah. [TS]

  So I do agree I do agree that schools serve this purpose of separating the wheat from the chaff. [TS]

  However family you think they do that or not which is a whole lot of subject matter. [TS]

  Yeah I mean that's I think we can get a lot of economics and class [TS]

  and all sorts of unfair things that we got is that the terribly unfair thing. [TS]

  They're just with that with that one final thing about the selectivity thing you know you know how you mentioned about [TS]

  if the if the school in your neighborhood really takes a dive you know it affects you or your property values. [TS]

  And everybody has this experience of sort of good schools and bad schools and. [TS]

  Why why I would definitely say that teachers do have an impact on whether a school is a good school [TS]

  or a bad school just leaving those terms undefined for the moment. [TS]

  Teachers definitely contribute to that in terms of like the emotional environment of the school [TS]

  and all these kinds of things [TS]

  but I was also in some of my schools sort of involved in in the application process of students because I worked at [TS]

  private schools. [TS]

  And so it was always always felt so bad for them but it was like kids would come in [TS]

  and they'd have to sit these exams and we give them exams in math and English [TS]

  and you know in England they're coming in and they're I don't know whether they're nine [TS]

  or ten years old you know trying to apply for a school that they'll go to and they're just so small [TS]

  and I saw you poor thing coming in here taking this test. [TS]

  There is the human moment where you see these tiny people marching off to an exam that's going to change possibly the [TS]

  whole rest of their life you know depending on what what what secondary school or high school they get into. [TS]

  So that's one side of it than the other side of it was that I would have to mark a lot of these exams [TS]

  and that again was a very interesting thing to see because the schools are marking these exams [TS]

  and you can see just how I mean I would say like ninety percent of the academic results of a school are determined at [TS]

  this moment. Right how many of the kids. How many kids do we get. [TS]

  Who got the best scores on these exams to come to our school. [TS]

  Right that that it's just the difference in papers between the best kids in the worst kids even at age nine is is kind [TS]

  of astounding and you know I just I just think when you talk about a good school [TS]

  and this is where the inequality of the world really really comes into play a good school in terms of academics. [TS]

  I mean it's got to be a ninety percent effect just on the selection of the students they let in if you let in more [TS]

  academically inclined students you are going to have much better results. [TS]

  You know five years down the line when they have to take their their their exams [TS]

  and then again it's like boy you don't you don't want to see that you want to think that that a school can just take in [TS]

  a bunch of kids and like turn them all around and let them learn how to learn and they're going to be amazing results. [TS]

  But schools we're definitely competing very hard to get the kids who did the best on those exams [TS]

  and that there's a reason why schools private schools really want to get to the top. [TS]

  But Cheever is that they can because those that just brings up the results [TS]

  and you can see that even at a very young age [TS]

  and again like I don't I didn't want to believe this you know that that like oh kids nine like What can their test [TS]

  scores possibly show about how they're going to do later on [TS]

  but I mean those even at that age like their test scores are very predictive of how they're going to do five years [TS]

  later which is which is disappointing and also I think you know again should should not be the case. [TS]

  If those kids are really learning how to learn in schools I think the goodness of the school is in large part a [TS]

  selection function it's not what happens in the walls function at least again [TS]

  and in terms of academics so you seem to be reluctant to touch on this in May because it's such a big subject for [TS]

  another day but you've kind of the trade schools. I mean. It's not I guess you haven't betrayed them negatively. [TS]

  Well you have to try to negatively but you would as you would say honestly. [TS]

  But do you have like this alternative in Montauk is is this is this just the best we can do with you know these huge [TS]

  populations who have unlimited labor markets and things or have is they're like are you hinting at something better. [TS]

  Well I think a better system is is a conversation for a different time. [TS]

  I would just say that some of the hesitation you probably hear especially with this last section is just that [TS]

  when you're a working teacher there is an enormous pressure within the school system to kind of not acknowledge [TS]

  differences between students you know. [TS]

  So you're just you're just under a lot of pressure to never really discuss that like this girl is clearly smarter than [TS]

  this other kid and I'm like it's it is sort of the it's like teachers all know this. [TS]

  But the management feeling [TS]

  or at least the line that that management often portrays is you are not helping that dumb kid anough like [TS]

  and some kids are just dumb. [TS]

  Right like I'm sorry world [TS]

  but it's true you know like if you know you had a referee for a football match saying that caution is in Sudan is such [TS]

  a much better football than Terry Andreas [TS]

  and then you'd be like well hang on you're supposed to be the one neutral person who doesn't think X. [TS]

  Is better than oh yeah yeah yeah. [TS]

  I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing [TS]

  but I still I still feel some of this kind of lingering teacher hesitation to talk about things in a particular way [TS]

  and so that's that's why you know if you as a working teacher if you're ever in a meeting like suggested that someone [TS]

  was just not very bright. [TS]

  You know it's not that does not go down well for your professional career you know you need to kind of toe the line [TS]

  that they're like oh you know maybe there's more ways that I could help this student you know perhaps by you know [TS]

  writing their answers for them on a piece of paper is like the best way to help them so that I get the part of the [TS]

  hesitation I feel is just is. Yeah. [TS]

  Is that lingering feeling of when I worked as a teacher [TS]

  and how to how to talk in meetings about what's going on in classrooms [TS]

  but yeah I'm not I'm not suggesting right now any kind of alternative. [TS]

  I'm just looking at it and I feel like this is and this is like a neutral assessment of school [TS]

  but I made this mistake the judge of that. [TS]

  Yet e-mail Brady It was more interesting than I thought it was going to be an essay so I thank you for sharing your [TS]

  honest and and and severing your relationship was a few remaining former teachers who you were friends with. [TS]

  Yeah well at least according to my clock we've been recording for one hour and fifty six minutes. [TS]

  So much at this meeting. [TS]