Hello Internet

H.I. #57: Podcasters React


  you know our I'm really stressed I've [TS]

  been working really hard I don't know if [TS]

  I'm coming or going the last few weeks [TS]

  opinion sign but you've cheered me up [TS]

  with a fun chat before the show and [TS]

  you've put me in a good mood and I don't [TS]

  think I'm at my best when I'm in a good [TS]

  mode [TS]

  I won't tell your story you want to tell [TS]

  me a story about I went on a little [TS]

  holiday to my favorite place in the [TS]

  world [TS]

  this is the mole Dave's that sounds very [TS]

  lovely have you been to the motives [TS]

  uh-huh the very fact that i am currently [TS]

  just realizing i need to pull up a map [TS]

  where i was going to quietly type [TS]

  maldives into it on your steam-powered [TS]

  keyboard there's no quiet typing with [TS]

  you I was I was mentally thinking it was [TS]

  somewhere in in the Indian Ocean kind of [TS]

  it is sort of western shore Lanker list [TS]

  of india a bit just a little emerald [TS]

  sprinkled in the ocean and directly [TS]

  north of the british indian ocean [TS]

  territory went to I went to a lovely [TS]

  lovely Island there and had a week of [TS]

  niceness a week of blue ocean if the [TS]

  photographs are anything to go by every [TS]

  time you send me a photo there was just [TS]

  just perfect perfect crystal light blue [TS]

  water all around you [TS]

  hashtag no filter that is what it looks [TS]

  like that is what it looks like [TS]

  what did you do now we have to conclude [TS]

  hashtag no filter look at i think i [TS]

  actually just went on Instagram [TS]

  yesterday like I've just started a new [TS]

  instagram account yesterday I think I [TS]

  want to get it i want to get into [TS]

  Instagram are you two huh I like I just [TS]

  think it's a nice a platform [TS]

  I've been enjoying doing our Audrey's [TS]

  instagram and i thought i'm going to go [TS]

  on there so i started one up and show me [TS]

  the love people you can follow bringing [TS]

  on Instagram and do Audrey on Instagram [TS]

  to is that what I just got bored orders [TS]

  on Instagram and now and now i am 25 if [TS]

  you're going to follow 1follower Audrey [TS]

  uh-huh [TS]

  workers are there better so anyway one [TS]

  of the really common things you find at [TS]

  these more deviant islands of these [TS]

  water villas that's that's a lot of [TS]

  people staying there like the nice thing [TS]

  to stay in and for people who are [TS]

  unfamiliar with this concept because [TS]

  these islands are so tiny [TS]

  normally when you stay on one they build [TS]

  like a little jetty out to say I just [TS]

  want to understand [TS]

  where you staying on a private island is [TS]

  now is that what the description here [TS]

  that all already the radios i would like [TS]

  an untouched emerald and they go and [TS]

  they build you your own peer that you [TS]

  will then land upon it that was a no but [TS]

  but it's a big but the way the Modi's [TS]

  works is because all these tiny little [TS]

  islands all around these assholes are so [TS]

  small it's not like you go to an island [TS]

  and there's like five hotels there and [TS]

  you choose the hotel you want basically [TS]

  you choose an island and there's just [TS]

  one place on that island and it will [TS]

  have a couple of restaurants and a gym [TS]

  and you know a spire but like usually [TS]

  the islands of the size of maybe two or [TS]

  three football fields so what they do is [TS]

  they build these jetties these peers out [TS]

  to sea and then off these pic jetties [TS]

  comes a series of little mini jetties [TS]

  each one of the little villa sitting [TS]

  above the sea basically on on stilts on [TS]

  I don't go okay and i were talking about [TS]

  and they're talking about so its eastern [TS]

  border village so you're above the sea [TS]

  at night and this particular one we had [TS]

  had a like a partly glass floor so you [TS]

  can look down at the scene look at the [TS]

  fish and you've got your own little [TS]

  platform for and/or out the back with a [TS]

  little ladder that goes down into the [TS]

  sea so you can go and swim with the fish [TS]

  and it's all its it's so lovely so calm [TS]

  so I've set the same we're staying in [TS]

  this water villa and there's a series of [TS]

  water villas that come of this jetty and [TS]

  I went to the island i went i think i [TS]

  went to the gym so to do it to do a [TS]

  fitted on 5,000 meters on the treadmill [TS]

  counts double when you're on holiday [TS]

  exactly so my wife stayed in the villa [TS]

  and she went out onto the deck at the [TS]

  back of the villa to go and look at the [TS]

  sea and I think she put her beats [TS]

  headphones on and was listening to music [TS]

  I came back and mikey had stopped [TS]

  working [TS]

  who was banging on the door and the [TS]

  doorbell and she couldn't hear me [TS]

  because she had the music on so i looked [TS]

  at the Villa next door and the guy who [TS]

  was like cleaning the villas who I knew [TS]

  because I'd spoken to him on previous [TS]

  days and ask him about things and you [TS]

  know ask him about the motives we become [TS]

  friendly of course with him and I said [TS]

  I've got a problem I've locked myself [TS]

  out [TS]

  so he said I'll let you in and he was [TS]

  getting his life master keyer was gonna [TS]

  walk around that me and I said no no [TS]

  I've got a better idea let me through [TS]

  this villa so he let me walk through the [TS]

  village he was cleaning to their back [TS]

  over there back verandah area and then I [TS]

  went down there ladder into the sea and [TS]

  I swim across to our villa the next [TS]

  Miller so i could then emerged from the [TS]

  sea and just come up the ladder and just [TS]

  appear before my wife like out of the [TS]

  water like James Bond not the only thing [TS]

  that would have made it cool that was if [TS]

  I'd like ripped off my clothes and I had [TS]

  a tuxedo underneath after surprised he's [TS]

  your man and she just looks at me and [TS]

  says well I didn't see you going to say [TS]

  and I said I came from next door has [TS]

  been locked out knocking on the door and [TS]

  swam here from the Villa next door she [TS]

  went huh [TS]

  I thought maybe you'd gone for swimming [TS]

  I hadn't noticed I was so deflated like [TS]

  that was gonna be like that was gonna be [TS]

  like the story that she would tell that [TS]

  used to come of the day her husband just [TS]

  emerged from the sea and because i feel [TS]

  like i'm mostly on your wife side of [TS]

  remarkable unimpressive pneus because [TS]

  I'm looking actually at some satellite [TS]

  pictures of these of these villas like [TS]

  i've been i've been browsing around and [TS]

  google while you're talking and yeah it [TS]

  looks like these things these little [TS]

  houses on the sea they can't be more [TS]

  than 10 feet apart so well it's acting [TS]

  like it's like you're trying to start [TS]

  like your impact like you're super [TS]

  impressive here like you swam across the [TS]

  open ocean you know the next Island [TS]

  right to the next Island when you got [TS]

  locked out you know and like blown [TS]

  across the ocean like but act but [TS]

  actually what you're talking about is [TS]

  you just got a little wet barely moving [TS]

  any kind of distance like I looking at [TS]

  these photos I who hates the ocean who [TS]

  hasn't touched the ocean in a decade [TS]

  possibly i would feel completely [TS]

  comfortable swimming from one of these [TS]

  villains to the others if I got locked [TS]

  out just like this life i'm totally with [TS]

  your wife on that's what this was not a [TS]

  great fate of swimming i will i will [TS]

  grab I will grant you that it's not even [TS]

  like some genius plan that you came up [TS]

  with like the obvious thing to do [TS]

  no other things to do not use the [TS]

  Aldean's equivalent of of walking [TS]

  through you [TS]

  neighbours backyard to get to your own [TS]

  house yep that's what this is it's so [TS]

  impressive maybe even building up his [TS]

  story today about like oh we great you [TS]

  would you just can't wait i have such a [TS]

  story to tell you about getting locked [TS]

  out of my hotel and I'm sitting here [TS]

  like waiting for the story to happen but [TS]

  I have just the just is unimpressed as [TS]

  your wife is would you have been as [TS]

  comfortable doing this swim if the night [TS]

  before when you were looking through [TS]

  your glass window in the in the floor [TS]

  you had seen three count em three [TS]

  five-foot-long sharks swimming under [TS]

  your villa for 20 minutes this water [TS]

  Brady is crystal clear you could you [TS]

  could see sharks for miles [TS]

  I'm you know that's not that's not true [TS]

  which with that's not true with sharks [TS]

  and fish even when the water is clear [TS]

  and literally miles that's not true [TS]

  there are many times I'm swimming in the [TS]

  motives and suddenly like there's a [TS]

  sharp like a reef shark or something [TS]

  right next to me that you couldn't say [TS]

  from from above but anyway yeah but reef [TS]

  shark like you're not gonna get eaten by [TS]

  reef shark and it's just you know it's [TS]

  cool that this kind of thing to tell [TS]

  someone who i was there was a reef shark [TS]

  bite me but it's not gonna it's not [TS]

  gonna eat you [TS]

  this is this is no great white shark I I [TS]

  think you're missing the point of the [TS]

  story and you know you do i am you you [TS]

  actually I think you're missing the [TS]

  point of your story you actually hit the [TS]

  point of the story without realizing it [TS]

  was the point of the story you actually [TS]

  said what I think the funny point of the [TS]

  story is this is this was not a great [TS]

  feat of athleticism but the thing that I [TS]

  think is funny about this story is what [TS]

  you said that the that the more davion [TS]

  equivalent of going through your [TS]

  neighbor's backyard to get into the [TS]

  house involves swimming in the ocean [TS]

  I think that's lovely it is it look [TS]

  lovely yes remotely impressive now [TS]

  well pumpkin like looking at the [TS]

  satellite photos the very reason they're [TS]

  able to do build these houses where they [TS]

  are is because you're not over like that [TS]

  like the continental shelf here with his [TS]

  water resistant water that you down [TS]

  forever you're on the top of a natal [TS]

  like [TS]

  it's just it's unimpressive in every way [TS]

  could possibly be and you can I do swim [TS]

  out to the dark part where the drop-off [TS]

  goes because I because i love snorkeling [TS]

  and you swim along and so it's quite [TS]

  shallow and then you go to the drop-off [TS]

  wear just plunges down into the dark [TS]

  blue and that is freaky when you swim to [TS]

  their like that that that's that's quite [TS]

  scary and I see how far I can swim out [TS]

  above that and yeah that the tech that's [TS]

  terrifying [TS]

  that's having fun rolling the dice on [TS]

  your life right that's something I would [TS]

  not do not under any circumstances not [TS]

  ever [TS]

  well I'll grant you there like that [TS]

  that's why you were telling me that [TS]

  these eight holes are all in like a [TS]

  circle and so if you're telling me you [TS]

  it's you know swam across the open a [TS]

  business in the center to get to the [TS]

  other side then I feel like now that's a [TS]

  man i am impressed by like but this is [TS]

  just it's nothing it's nothing [TS]

  well if you can show me the text or the [TS]

  email or remind me of the conversation [TS]

  that happened where I said I did [TS]

  something incredibly impressive to get [TS]

  into a locked hotel room i will [TS]

  apologize my recollection is that i had [TS]

  just a funny light-hearted moment that [TS]

  happened when I locked myself out of a [TS]

  hotel and because it did not involve [TS]

  putting my life at risk it seems to be [TS]

  inadequate for the hello Internet [TS]

  podcast and for that i apologize [TS]

  you've been traveling quite a bit [TS]

  ah yeah you've traveled twice to the [TS]

  same place [TS]

  amsterdam we didn't talk about it last [TS]

  time but yes I went three months ago and [TS]

  i was just recently in Amsterdam as well [TS]

  again and I just just came back [TS]

  yesterday or the day before yesterday as [TS]

  i recently returned and you just go [TS]

  there and work you just go there and [TS]

  second stay in a hotel and see on your [TS]

  computer basically and add yet my [TS]

  swimming in the sea stories too boring [TS]

  it wasn't about to tell you already have [TS]

  an amazing story about how I was on my [TS]

  computer and I locked myself out of my [TS]

  room and went down to reception and get [TS]

  a replacement card [TS]

  why do you why do you do this great you [TS]

  haven't you have a perfectly serviceable [TS]

  apartment you have a little office space [TS]

  as well in London you have you have all [TS]

  your little libraries and coffee shops [TS]

  and nooks and crannies you can work in [TS]

  is that not enough for you it isn't [TS]

  enough for me Brady heads true i need i [TS]

  need more novelty [TS]

  in my life on occasion this is the thing [TS]

  that I have always done is to take [TS]

  little breaks away from my normal [TS]

  routine and now that I'm like [TS]

  self-employed and I'm on my own it's [TS]

  it's a situation like oh I can actually [TS]

  take a break not just when I have off [TS]

  from work I can do it at any point and [TS]

  so I found a place that I liked in [TS]

  amsterdam and yes I went there is most [TS]

  recent trip I was there for two weeks [TS]

  and everything about this experience I [TS]

  like because I went there with the [TS]

  intention of working and it was just [TS]

  great [TS]

  it just narrows my focus was like I [TS]

  don't have to worry about a whole bunch [TS]

  of other stuff like I'm just there and I [TS]

  can concentrate on a few things like I [TS]

  can concentrate on the finished Ron [TS]

  lifestyle of course and I can [TS]

  concentrate on some work that had been [TS]

  on my mind for a while that I was trying [TS]

  to complete and finish and concentrate [TS]

  on writing and like that's it like life [TS]

  is very simple it's very straightforward [TS]

  and I I really I really benefit from [TS]

  doing this on occasion so I did it [TS]

  recently I i turn but i think its weight [TS]

  but let's eat [TS]

  why do you think it's weird I know why [TS]

  you think it's weird you think it's [TS]

  weird because you're a workaholic who is [TS]

  able to just work all the time at any [TS]

  time with no problems whatsoever that's [TS]

  you break your the machine in this [TS]

  relationship really you're always able [TS]

  to crank out stuff [TS]

  no that's not true and home has its [TS]

  distractions like the knocking on the [TS]

  door and the things of life but also [TS]

  home has all the things i need and like [TS]

  if I go away I and inevitably will not [TS]

  have some things I need but I i don't [TS]

  know i guess i'd have to travel so much [TS]

  anyway that unnecessary travel like does [TS]

  not appeal to me and you mean [TS]

  unnecessary work travel like that's [TS]

  that's the difference here because you [TS]

  just did unnecessary and unnecessary [TS]

  travel to the Maldives yeah but that was [TS]

  that [TS]

  well here's a key difference there I did [TS]

  that with my wife who and the other [TS]

  thing that I find strange about it is [TS]

  that you go away on your own now I now [TS]

  you're an introvert sort of stuff but my [TS]

  wife has to work and she's also happy to [TS]

  have me out of the house for a little [TS]

  while [TS]

  that's how relationships work you know [TS]

  you gotta be on the same page about this [TS]

  kind of stuff [TS]

  yeah yeah she's cool with it but [TS]

  I'm happy for you and you might you just [TS]

  sit around the hotel de you don't got a [TS]

  lot to and Frank's house and you know [TS]

  walk the canals and stuff to sit in city [TS]

  computer or so actually happened to when [TS]

  I started this trip I happened to [TS]

  install a new app on my phone which does [TS]

  like automatic location tracking and [TS]

  tries to build a little report of what [TS]

  you've been up to which I felt like I [TS]

  was interesting let me try this thing [TS]

  and according to that i left the hotel [TS]

  aside from phila tron lifestyle runs [TS]

  which I was doing but excluding those in [TS]

  14 days i left the hotel three days [TS]

  really one of them was to meet up with a [TS]

  friend who came up to visit me for the [TS]

  final day of the trip but mostly because [TS]

  I just I just stay in in the hotel [TS]

  the downside of this though is that the [TS]

  hotel staff get to know me way too well [TS]

  while I want to just be this anonymous [TS]

  person in the hotel i also have like [TS]

  picky requests with food or the way [TS]

  think I want things done and so I'm [TS]

  immediately identified and recognizable [TS]

  by all of the staff one of the times [TS]

  that I went out was to was to fix a [TS]

  problem because i was originally only [TS]

  supposed to be an acronym for a week and [TS]

  i ended up extending the trip longer for [TS]

  a week but because i only thought i was [TS]

  going to be there for a week [TS]

  I did not bring shaving supplies and I [TS]

  had arrived slightly scruffy and I would [TS]

  I thought like oh but i'll be leaving at [TS]

  the end of the week it's it's it's no [TS]

  big deal but when I extended longer i [TS]

  realized around 8n that ok all of the [TS]

  hotel staff know exactly who i am i am [TS]

  this also this guy who's like clearly [TS]

  not wanting to talk to anybody and is [TS]

  super picky and is now also becoming [TS]

  like extremely scraggly looking and I [TS]

  realize like okay I am falling into like [TS]

  a Howard Hughes type situation here in [TS]

  this hotel you know how you just have [TS]

  this feeling like I think the perception [TS]

  of me is suddenly changing their [TS]

  beginning to wonder if when i check out [TS]

  there going to find bottles of pee in [TS]

  the hotel room stashed away or something [TS]

  one of the reasons i went outside at one [TS]

  point was solely to catch shaving [TS]

  equipment [TS]

  because i wanted to shave but because i [TS]

  felt this like responsibility to give [TS]

  some kind of indication to the hotel [TS]

  staff like don't worry don't worry don't [TS]

  still a normal person who is able to [TS]

  take care of himself [TS]

  I am NOT just a weirdo who has checked [TS]

  into this hotel and it's going to end up [TS]

  living here but looking like a homeless [TS]

  person in his hoodie unshaven and [TS]

  scruffy so I i have never ever shaved [TS]

  more thoroughly or more carefully than I [TS]

  did at about day 10 in that 12 in that [TS]

  hotel because I thought I need to look [TS]

  so well put together I need to not be [TS]

  coming out like cuts all over my face [TS]

  covered with and I swear I swear to you [TS]

  Brady the staff in the restaurant and [TS]

  everywhere else did stop treating me [TS]

  like maybe this guy's little weird like [TS]

  after I had shaved this totally did in [TS]

  their minds reset the clock to like okay [TS]

  he's a person who can take care of [TS]

  himself he's not just a freak is going [TS]

  to live here indefinitely [TS]

  that was your James Bond moment when you [TS]

  came down the lobby stairs and your tax [TS]

  all clean shaven and over all the [TS]

  waitresses return they had it went wow I [TS]

  had no idea who's that guy that's the [TS]

  guy with the beard doubles OmniFocus [TS]

  that is not the same i ah it looks [TS]

  amazing there let me ask you this though [TS]

  amsterdam you know it's one of the great [TS]

  cities of Europe and as such it is [TS]

  therefore not a cheap city to go to if [TS]

  you want to stay in a nice hotel and [TS]

  pretty much stay in a hotel most of the [TS]

  time [TS]

  why go to a city as expensive as [TS]

  amsterdam why not find a luxurious hotel [TS]

  in some remote location where you can [TS]

  get more and nicer hotel fiat money [TS]

  ok so Brady the thing is I didn't go to [TS]

  Amsterdam the first time because i [TS]

  thought oh I want to go to Amsterdam [TS]

  like this is a city that I want to go to [TS]

  now I did this ad exact reverse way [TS]

  which is I was trying to find a hotel [TS]

  that I would want to spend a significant [TS]

  amount of time in and he didn't care [TS]

  where in the world it was so i was [TS]

  trying to find a place that looked like [TS]

  a place that I want to stay and the [TS]

  number one thing the number one thing [TS]

  that I cannot stand with most hotels is [TS]

  that they're just so fancy especially [TS]

  European hotels where they have like all [TS]

  of this French 17th century furniture [TS]

  looking stuff and they cramp up the [TS]

  rooms with everything I just I cannot [TS]

  stand that kind of thing in a hotel like [TS]

  I would I wouldn't want to stay in that [TS]

  sort of hotel because it's just mentally [TS]

  cluttering it's just overwhelming [TS]

  so what I was really doing is how is [TS]

  looking all over the continent of Europe [TS]

  trying to find hotels that were [TS]

  relatively minimalistic and that's that [TS]

  was actually my primary thing and the [TS]

  fact that it was in Amsterdam that was [TS]

  just a secondary effect it could have [TS]

  been anywhere and i would have I would [TS]

  have travelled to it [TS]

  Amsterdam is quite close which is handy [TS]

  as well I guess that's not a long flight [TS]

  do you fly there or now in July took the [TS]

  train out I took the train out I thought [TS]

  like that do this the nice way so it's [TS]

  been like a day traveling out on the [TS]

  train and a while at the hotel and then [TS]

  I took the train back [TS]

  so what do you do you get the Eurostar [TS]

  to Paris and change or what haha yes [TS]

  your started to Brussels and then [TS]

  Russell's to amsterdam brussels which is [TS]

  one of the ugliest train stations I've [TS]

  ever seen process is horrible [TS]

  mmm nice one so for a lot of people [TS]

  listening I think Amsterdam is famous [TS]

  for its tolerance of activities that [TS]

  would be illegal in many other places [TS]

  and and you obviously like one of the [TS]

  squarest people i know so do you do you [TS]

  ever wonder around and sort of [TS]

  experience or not experience but you [TS]

  know experience the city and look at all [TS]

  that stuff going on and think wow this [TS]

  is cool or be sort of how do you how do [TS]

  you feel about that side of things [TS]

  because if we don't talk about [TS]

  everyone's going to comment on it turns [TS]

  out you can't go to Amsterdam on your [TS]

  own without your wife for an extended [TS]

  period of time without people making a [TS]

  lot of assumptions about the nature of [TS]

  the trip [TS]

  yes and no matter how much you try to [TS]

  talk people out of it there is not going [TS]

  to believe it this is nice and the thing [TS]

  that i have come across but as I think [TS]

  we've discussed before on the show like [TS]

  I'm actually quite boring like I'm not a [TS]

  person who has [TS]

  done any illegal substances I would [TS]

  never have guessed you would not have [TS]

  guessed so you've decided enough of that [TS]

  Maddie is gonna get crazy and you're [TS]

  like two years or that's not it [TS]

  so I am still I'm still boring in that [TS]

  way also some of the other services that [TS]

  Amsterdam makes available i have not [TS]

  partaken in those services either but I [TS]

  i think it is great that a place like [TS]

  Amsterdam exists i am so on the side [TS]

  like if you if grown-ups want to do [TS]

  something and they are consenting or [TS]

  they are not hurting anybody else like I [TS]

  am very much on the side like obviously [TS]

  that should be legal [TS]

  that's that's my position and I'd like I [TS]

  actually I quite like being in a place [TS]

  where stuff that to me seems like [TS]

  obviously this shouldn't be illegal [TS]

  I'm kind of happy to be in a place where [TS]

  it's allowed even if i am not partaking [TS]

  in any of it just it just feels quite [TS]

  reasonable [TS]

  even though i'm totally on board with [TS]

  them being legal it is kind of weird [TS]

  nonetheless sometimes to turn a corner [TS]

  and find yourself quite literally [TS]

  face-to-face with this like you know i'm [TS]

  totally on board with it sometimes I did [TS]

  find it quite surprising on the [TS]

  occasions i was walking around or even [TS]

  just cut sorted by the hotel like go [TS]

  outside and turn the corner and all of a [TS]

  sudden it's like oh I am literally feet [TS]

  away from someone selling the amsterdam [TS]

  specialties and hospital it's like wow [TS]

  the actual buying and selling of these [TS]

  services that seems to be quite socially [TS]

  awkward you're talking about the the [TS]

  physical services not the chemical [TS]

  services [TS]

  yes the physical services that the [TS]

  chemical services because their children [TS]

  in the room of course we have to talk in [TS]

  broad terms but yes it's a little weird [TS]

  to look one of those vendors in the I [TS]

  like at at close range unexpectedly like [TS]

  oh do you ever and this is not this is [TS]

  not a CD question because this is one of [TS]

  the main tourist things of amsterdam do [TS]

  you ever walk through it like the the [TS]

  bespoke area of amsterdam that is a more [TS]

  red in its illumination the redline [TS]

  victory [TS]

  yes I don't know what I don't know what [TS]

  we're saying now you've reminded [TS]

  we have all the little people this now [TS]

  that is that's one of the most [TS]

  interesting things to do in amsterdam [TS]

  and I can assure you there are about [TS]

  four thousand tourists for every one [TS]

  person who was actually there trying to [TS]

  partake in those services with my [TS]

  feeling was mostly was like well this is [TS]

  very strange like I'm again I'm glad [TS]

  this thing exists but it's kind of weird [TS]

  that it does i'm always surprised that [TS]

  it's quite like it's quite a beautiful [TS]

  area isn't the little little yesterday [TS]

  in ways and canals and the complete [TS]

  foreignness of what's happening [TS]

  obviously makes it quite a bit a bit [TS]

  disoriented but you know obviously it's [TS]

  really strange thing to say sort of a [TS]

  glass door and there's a lady there who [TS]

  wanting to do business and give the [TS]

  children Brady talking about about it [TS]

  but but but but I certainly yeah it said [TS]

  it's certainly very different it's [TS]

  certainly very exotic an interesting [TS]

  place and but also good place for [TS]

  business obviously for the great [TS]

  business [TS]

  yeah definitely got a lot of work done [TS]

  got a lot of things done very happy very [TS]

  happy [TS]

  today's sponsor is audible.com who has [TS]

  more than 180,000 audiobooks and spoken [TS]

  word audio products you can get a free [TS]

  30-day trial today by going to [TS]

  audible.com / hello Internet as always [TS]

  audible wants us to recommend to you a [TS]

  book to listen to and this time I'm [TS]

  reaching into the classic archive of [TS]

  books that i have liked to bring you [TS]

  Snow Crash by neal stephenson it's a [TS]

  classic science fiction book that was [TS]

  written at a bit of the dawn of the [TS]

  Internet age in the early nineties but [TS]

  that i reread recently and still holds [TS]

  up marvelously as always with these [TS]

  things I don't want to spoil any of the [TS]

  plot for you so if you trust me this is [TS]

  just a recommendation that I'm passing [TS]

  on though I will say the book has one of [TS]

  my favorite lines ever about companies [TS]

  will just say that companies play a [TS]

  large role in this book and that line is [TS]

  the franchise and the virus work on the [TS]

  same principle what thrives in one place [TS]

  will thrive in another you just have to [TS]

  find a sufficiently very [TS]

  Island business plan condense it into a [TS]

  three-ring binder [TS]

  its DNA xerox it and embedded in the [TS]

  Fertile lining of a well-traveled [TS]

  Highway preferably one with a left turn [TS]

  lane then its growth will expand until [TS]

  it runs up against its property lines [TS]

  that's a hell of a paragraph i just love [TS]

  that and I think about that every time I [TS]

  see franchises along the highway [TS]

  that's what a good book can do it can [TS]

  plant a thought in your mind forever so [TS]

  that's my recommendation today snow [TS]

  crash by neal stephenson so of course [TS]

  audible has books on absolutely [TS]

  everything in every genre you can [TS]

  possibly imagine and what I really like [TS]

  is if you start a book and you don't [TS]

  like it you can just return it no [TS]

  questions asked it's very easy [TS]

  it makes getting into a new book a [TS]

  no-risk proposition so once again go to [TS]

  audible.com / hello internet and start [TS]

  your free audible trial today and thanks [TS]

  to audible for supporting the show you [TS]

  were saying before the show that we [TS]

  should just talk at length about gun [TS]

  jams and still no no not going to five [TS]

  guys germs and steel that we've had a [TS]

  lot of feedback we have had a lot of [TS]

  feedback but I need to I need to load it [TS]

  all in my brain to be able to talk about [TS]

  the whole thing I can't talk about this [TS]

  now don't worry Brady because i know i [TS]

  know there's nothing you love more than [TS]

  really picky detailed follow-up I think [TS]

  about a topic that you're not super [TS]

  interested in I don't worry we'll get to [TS]

  it at some point but not today not today [TS]

  wasn't one person wrote a response iso [TS]

  and I think their response was longer [TS]

  than the book [TS]

  yeah there there there have been many [TS]

  many comments we were sort of time at [TS]

  some point you're not going to drop into [TS]

  it now is that what you're trying to do [TS]

  honestly grey I cannot draw you into it [TS]

  because i have not I have not processed [TS]

  and read it like that you know I i flip [TS]

  i skim read the red when it was early [TS]

  days but I sort of i didn't understand [TS]

  most of it we'll get back to it later [TS]

  ok let's get to what you really love [TS]

  which is the bi weekly weigh-in [TS]

  bi-weekly way in which is more like a [TS]

  try [TS]

  monthly discussion little that's what i [TS]

  was saying today we have to do the [TS]

  bi-weekly way and because we haven't [TS]

  done it in I can't quite remember how [TS]

  long the last time we did it i just [TS]

  remember saying I gained a bunch of [TS]

  weight from Christmas yeah and I think [TS]

  you hadn't weighed yourself then but [TS]

  then you told me today that you haven't [TS]

  weighed yourself again so how long has [TS]

  it been since you weighed yourself man [TS]

  i I don't know how would I know that and [TS]

  I don't you have a spreadsheet you [TS]

  haven't been keeping a spreadsheet i [TS]

  haven't been keeping a spreadsheet and i [TS]

  haven't actually been running for the [TS]

  last couple of weeks either for a few [TS]

  reasons so your region open the [TS]

  spreadsheet to put my running times in [TS]

  and i have not been running either so [TS]

  I'm basically rubbish he said as he [TS]

  rigged as he reached for another [TS]

  schedule and soup of dr.pepper you reach [TS]

  for a single skittle my kind of lots of [TS]

  skills when the podcast because that [TS]

  feel like my mouth but i can i can sneak [TS]

  only get one in occasionally is that [TS]

  what you do when recording is sneaking [TS]

  skills into your mental now I'm not [TS]

  normally but I've got back here at the [TS]

  moment [TS]

  look at that that sounds like a pretty [TS]

  big pack of those jumbo pack of Skittles [TS]

  yeah limited-edition darkside skills so [TS]

  I've gone for the darkside skills not [TS]

  officially part of the trial lifestyle [TS]

  that's why they're dioxides get it was [TS]

  great oh I just dropped him [TS]

  oh they're all over the pillow know ru [TS]

  darkside skills are to make sure I [TS]

  picked them up before audrey gets back [TS]

  they're everywhere great have bet that [TS]

  you are it's like a big rainbow carpet I [TS]

  think there's the filter on God's [TS]

  punishing you can I that's great because [TS]

  they're too big to vacuum as well he's [TS]

  just getting up to pick the model up and [TS]

  now it's messing with my head [TS]

  don't say anything though it's still [TS]

  here he's choking up I just put one in [TS]

  my fingers are all sticky from picking [TS]

  them up [TS]

  it's all going wrong right anyway so [TS]

  we'll like pick up skills why don't you [TS]

  tell people that you know what your [TS]

  weight is is something seriously going [TS]

  to try to be picking up skills while [TS]

  we're doing this podcast yeah that you [TS]

  can't do it I'm doing it now [TS]

  no you can't do this man Oh everyone and [TS]

  I know I bet they are [TS]

  i'll pick a lot of them up now [TS]

  ok come on what are you a hater for our [TS]

  bi-weekly way and theoretically this is [TS]

  the week that I get to say that i am [TS]

  finally at my goal of being under 200 [TS]

  pounds no time [TS]

  thank you i am super excited about that [TS]

  just barely [TS]

  uh I weighed myself this morning and i [TS]

  am one 99.5 which is still within a [TS]

  rounding error over 200 but I'm gonna [TS]

  literally couldn't count that I'm gonna [TS]

  count that last one [TS]

  and what did you tell her but did you go [TS]

  to five guys and pick up [TS]

  ok so actually I didn't have a [TS]

  celebration so we were talking before i [TS]

  was at amsterdam right and one of the [TS]

  other things like being in Amsterdam [TS]

  being in that hotel one of the other [TS]

  things it's really easy to do was like [TS]

  okay well i'm not at home [TS]

  I don't have the refrigerator like in my [TS]

  room or anything there's limited food [TS]

  selections there so while i was an [TS]

  accident i was super focused on doing [TS]

  the like the no-carb diet thing and just [TS]

  like I'm not eating any carbohydrates [TS]

  while I'm here I can focus on this I can [TS]

  keep I can keep really really intense [TS]

  with it and so I didn't eat any carbs [TS]

  and that was partly why i lost about [TS]

  about two or three pounds and each week [TS]

  that i was there [TS]

  well and but the thing was I knew as [TS]

  soon as I've been there for a week I [TS]

  thought you know what if I keep this up [TS]

  I could just get under 200 pounds and my [TS]

  my goal and my mental reward here was [TS]

  that I knew that I had this friend [TS]

  visiting on the final day and I thought [TS]

  wow this is great [TS]

  if if i can get under 200 pounds by the [TS]

  time he arrives then i will allow myself [TS]

  to not be a picky little person when [TS]

  we're going out and we're eating if i [TS]

  can get under 200 i will allow myself to [TS]

  just have like a normal day of going out [TS]

  with a friend like eating at restaurants [TS]

  and just not being super picky cool and [TS]

  so on the final day when my friend came [TS]

  to visit we went out to this amazing [TS]

  amazing omelet place which is actually [TS]

  just by the Amsterdam Central Station [TS]

  and I had a croissant with scrambled [TS]

  eggs and cheese [TS]

  I swear to god it was one of the most [TS]

  delicious things I had everything ok [TS]

  with it was the first bread that i had [TS]

  had in two weeks you're like keep your [TS]

  red light district i'm going to the [TS]

  omelet district exactly it was as [TS]

  sounding it was like this croissant with [TS]

  these scrambled eggs is the best food I [TS]

  have ever even in my whole life so nice [TS]

  that was kind of my celebration and it [TS]

  was after two weeks while actually [TS]

  really a few days of every time the [TS]

  hotel staff when i get breakfast there [TS]

  they bring over like muffins and bread [TS]

  and every morning I'd be like I know I [TS]

  don't know I don't even want the muffins [TS]

  on my table I don't want the bread on my [TS]

  table and eventually they all learned [TS]

  that I was the weird guy who didn't want [TS]

  bread with anything quite like whenever [TS]

  you order coffee in the hotel [TS]

  it comes with some cookies and I'd have [TS]

  to keep telling them like oh no I don't [TS]

  want any cookies with this and then [TS]

  eventually just learned brought me all [TS]

  the stuff without anything right yeah so [TS]

  that was my celebration [TS]

  what now grey what-what-what next like [TS]

  to look at do look now wait because [TS]

  there are no more weight to conquer in [TS]

  my mind I kind of thought that by the [TS]

  time i was under 200 like everything [TS]

  would be amazing and i would be some [TS]

  kind of super Adonis but actually look [TS]

  in the mirror and I realized like oh [TS]

  what I really done is now i'm just a [TS]

  normal person who could still go with [TS]

  losing a few more pounds like para [TS]

  actually what it is but I think for [TS]

  prior to getting here I had imagined [TS]

  that this was like the final end state [TS]

  right so now I think I realize like I [TS]

  still I still want to lose maybe five [TS]

  more pounds and give myself a little bit [TS]

  of a buffer to never be over 200 [TS]

  again so 195 is the new target I think [TS]

  195 is the new target might take me a [TS]

  long time to get there but I I think I'd [TS]

  feel a lot more comfortable having a [TS]

  buffer because if I can i really never [TS]

  want to be over 200 again but yeah I [TS]

  feel like a normal person and i realized [TS]

  i was looking through some of my data [TS]

  before and realize that I am now [TS]

  30 pounds lighter than i was at my [TS]

  absolute fastest which was not years ago [TS]

  nice work yeah so did you did you get [TS]

  because your wife hadn't seen you for a [TS]

  while when you got back from Amsterdam [TS]

  did she like notice a difference and say [TS]

  wow you look awesome [TS]

  yeah pretty much which was very [TS]

  satisfying yeah she noticed right away [TS]

  when I came home she was just because [TS]

  there was a bit like holy cow he look [TS]

  like a different person followed by the [TS]

  very satisfying you should go to [TS]

  Amsterdam more often [TS]

  hi everyone it's time for another one of [TS]

  our sponsorship raids and this one's a [TS]

  little bit different for me because i'm [TS]

  currently standing at the top of the [TS]

  hill overlooking all of san francisco [TS]

  and the bay area it's quite the sight [TS]

  the golden gate bridge is right in front [TS]

  of me and out to my left stretching away [TS]

  is the direction of Silicon Valley and [TS]

  it's here in San Francisco this place of [TS]

  technology that are mine must go to the [TS]

  thing that underpins all of our data led [TS]

  lives and that is back up [TS]

  you guessed it i'm here to talk about [TS]

  backblaze the place to go for online [TS]

  backup I used backblaze and I cannot [TS]

  tell you how much peace of mind gives me [TS]

  it's just installed on my computer it's [TS]

  worrying away in the background [TS]

  continually backing up everything to the [TS]

  cloud [TS]

  I've got a really cool interface it's [TS]

  really easy to use some ridiculous [TS]

  amount of data i think it's like a [TS]

  hundred and fifty petabytes has been [TS]

  stored on the back place service which I [TS]

  think that far away from where I'm [TS]

  talking to you at the moment so funny [TS]

  way I guess I've kind of come all the [TS]

  way from England to be closer to my [TS]

  backed up data now if you lose something [TS]

  on your computer and it happens it could [TS]

  just be a single file you can really [TS]

  easily go to backblaze and just have it [TS]

  restored or if the worst happens and you [TS]

  have a catastrophe you can recover all [TS]

  that data not just through the web but [TS]

  you can also contact back plays and now [TS]

  send you on a hard drive which i can [TS]

  imagine would be somewhat quick [TS]

  then trying to do it through the [TS]

  internet pipes it's also really changed [TS]

  five dollars a month per computer so you [TS]

  can have it running on your main one on [TS]

  your laptop on your wife's on your [TS]

  husband's on your boyfriend's your [TS]

  girlfriends on your relatives in fact I [TS]

  should probably get on my mom's computer [TS]

  i can't imagine how upset she will be if [TS]

  she ever loses all the photos now if you [TS]

  want to check them out go to backblaze [TS]

  dot-com / hello internet if you put the [TS]

  / hello Internet don't know you came [TS]

  from here now you can give them a trial [TS]

  no credit card required get back players [TS]

  running see how easy it is see how much [TS]

  peace of mind it gives you and I feel [TS]

  really confident you're likely to sign [TS]

  on for the real deal will have just come [TS]

  back inside and unbelievably while I was [TS]

  outside recording that I've had a tweak [TS]

  and it says thank you hello Internet FM [TS]

  for making me get back blaze which has [TS]

  just saved my brackets vegetarian bacon [TS]

  so literally while I was telling you to [TS]

  make sure you're protected one of our [TS]

  listeners had their digital life saved [TS]

  by backblaze so I think if people are [TS]

  listening contemporaneously the thing [TS]

  that they expect us to be talking about [TS]

  is the YouTube careful involving the [TS]

  film creators known as the fine brothers [TS]

  fire rose [TS]

  finebros I don't know what you call them [TS]

  then you can exploit you explain what [TS]

  happened great because this is a I'd be [TS]

  interested to hear your explanation of [TS]

  the controversy for anyone who's the bad [TS]

  guys when it goes up like i have seen an [TS]

  enormous number of people asking us to [TS]

  comment on the fine brothers Gate Park [TS]

  lips like whatever you want to put it [TS]

  however you want to like what suffix you [TS]

  want to fix to this is this big thing [TS]

  that has happened and I think perhaps [TS]

  for people who are unfamiliar with what [TS]

  we're about to talk about to talk about [TS]

  maybe the the shortest way to describe [TS]

  the the facts of the situation is that [TS]

  the fine brothers are run a very popular [TS]

  youtube channel which [TS]

  before all of this happened had [TS]

  something like 14 million subscribers [TS]

  and they put out a video which was [TS]

  aiming to discuss a new licensing [TS]

  program that they wanted to put in place [TS]

  and then the internet reacted very badly [TS]

  to this video of theirs that they put [TS]

  out they made an update video and the [TS]

  update video made the whole situation [TS]

  even worse and it kind of exploded into [TS]

  a massive massive kind of internet fight [TS]

  over copyright and trademarks and [TS]

  ownership of things and how to make [TS]

  videos for large groups of people and [TS]

  the value of the work of the fine [TS]

  brothers like it spilled over into just [TS]

  everything possible and was i'm going to [TS]

  say probably one of the biggest like [TS]

  internet explosions i have seen in a [TS]

  long long time like it was just [TS]

  constantly on the front page of sites [TS]

  like Reddit it was all over Twitter it [TS]

  was just this big big explosion that [TS]

  connected to a whole bunch of stuff i [TS]

  don't think you've done a brilliant job [TS]

  although i think you have very [TS]

  accurately given an overview but I think [TS]

  you've gone a bit too [TS]

  overview there to really bit be much [TS]

  used to people find brothers Gray said [TS]

  very very popular youtubers wait way [TS]

  bigger than you no way bigger than us [TS]

  leagues above us they've become their [TS]

  their huge big things like 10x the size [TS]

  of our challenge goes one of the [TS]

  format's that they make which is sort of [TS]

  being there big format that become [TS]

  really famous for is this series of [TS]

  videos about reactions it's become a [TS]

  genre of videos this react format I've [TS]

  got one called kids react [TS]

  they've got one called elders react [TS]

  which is older people and they basically [TS]

  show them viral videos or objects or [TS]

  things and now just film these people's [TS]

  reactions to them they'll interview them [TS]

  about it and it's a pretty but now thing [TS]

  when you think about it but they make [TS]

  them very well and I've become hugely [TS]

  hugely popular now [TS]

  I think it would it seems to be the case [TS]

  that to me I'm editorializing a bit now [TS]

  that these people are feeling a bit [TS]

  proprietorial about this format and [TS]

  although they most certainly did not [TS]

  invent the idea of people reacting to [TS]

  things or filming people to react to [TS]

  things i think because they had made it [TS]

  quite popular they felt a degree of [TS]

  ownership over and they announce to the [TS]

  world that they were going to license to [TS]

  people the ability to make react videos [TS]

  so you could make a video just like [TS]

  theirs and they will take some of your [TS]

  money and they will help you make that [TS]

  make these videos and once they announce [TS]

  this which seen your kind of odd to a [TS]

  lot of people people started scratching [TS]

  a little bit below the surface and it [TS]

  and it was realized that the fine [TS]

  brothers had in fact trademarked the [TS]

  names of some of their series and they [TS]

  had also trade match just the word react [TS]

  in this in this context and it seemed to [TS]

  be the case that they were now going to [TS]

  attempt to own the whole genre of [TS]

  reaction videos and infect other people [TS]

  started saying they've taken down all my [TS]

  reaction videos and there and there was [TS]

  an active campaign by someone associated [TS]

  with them to take down videos that were [TS]

  about reactions and at this point the [TS]

  internet turned on them [TS]

  I mean you say it was a huge big thing [TS]

  it was certainly big on red and in [TS]

  certain spheres and it certainly [TS]

  affected them they sort of did a half [TS]

  climb down and sort of apologized and [TS]

  made this apology [TS]

  Mia culpa video which was not very [TS]

  successful didn't go down well and [TS]

  wasn't good it wasn't good and that made [TS]

  things much much worse for them and then [TS]

  a couple of days later they did a [TS]

  complete climb down as they were [TS]

  hemorrhaging subscribers and everyone [TS]

  was even some of their sort of friends [TS]

  were saying they haven't done very well [TS]

  here they did a complete climb down and [TS]

  said we're sorry we're we're releasing [TS]

  all our trademarks on the word react [TS]

  we're releasing all their trademarks [TS]

  even on the ones that we do we're ending [TS]

  this whole idea of Licensing videos and [TS]

  they went back into [TS]

  shell completely beaten to death by the [TS]

  internet now one of the people who beat [TS]

  them with a stick was a good friend [TS]

  cgpgrey what do you mean I don't know [TS]

  what you're talking about pretty gray [TS]

  was like obviously people were writing [TS]

  blogs and making videos and really [TS]

  getting stuck into these guys and gray [TS]

  made a sort of a satirical Jackie video [TS]

  that I'm sure most of you have seen [TS]

  where he pretended that he was going to [TS]

  trademark stick figures which he uses in [TS]

  his videos and anyone else we ever [TS]

  wanted to use it figures would have to [TS]

  license from him and it was a rather [TS]

  rather sarcastic video and it was done [TS]

  in a away that kind of the parodied and [TS]

  sat I'd they the original things that [TS]

  the fine brothers were doing so great [TS]

  was one of the people in in the the mob [TS]

  that publicly shamed the fine brothers [TS]

  in-app away from their position it has [TS]

  been very interesting i have been [TS]

  talking to a lot of people in the [TS]

  business about this like because the the [TS]

  phrase that I keep using to describe [TS]

  what happens to everyone I talk to about [TS]

  this is perfect storm this thing [TS]

  exploded into a big conversation because [TS]

  it just like it hit all of the like the [TS]

  trigger points that it possibly could to [TS]

  make this explode into a big thing [TS]

  what are some of us well what one of [TS]

  those is even in your own description i [TS]

  think the thing that is is very tricky [TS]

  about this is in the in the first video [TS]

  that the fine brothers made you know I [TS]

  came to this very late i saw both videos [TS]

  at the same time because I i was just [TS]

  completing my own business [TS]

  no not on the internet very much and [TS]

  just happened to accidentally come [TS]

  across this thing but in the first video [TS]

  that they made they explained what they [TS]

  were doing kind of poorly because i [TS]

  watch that video and I thought wow ok [TS]

  one this is horribly made I don't think [TS]

  it's a very good video but as someone [TS]

  who works in the field of intellectual [TS]

  property right like my business is built [TS]

  on intellectual property i watch the [TS]

  thing i thought okay [TS]

  that they're doing they want to do [TS]

  licensing deals right this is this is [TS]

  what they want to do they want to [TS]

  license the fine brothers name or they [TS]

  want to license the particular assets [TS]

  they used to make their videos to other [TS]

  people to use to create you know [TS]

  sub-channels and then they themselves [TS]

  using example like you know america's [TS]

  got talent and britain's got talent [TS]

  right this is a common thing in the [TS]

  entertainment industry to do [TS]

  yeah yes it's not it's not unremarkable [TS]

  not it would be it would be certainly a [TS]

  new thing to do it on youtube and just [TS]

  have anyone in their bedroom started to [TS]

  license video Chandra's but someone's [TS]

  got to do it first I guess ya doing it [TS]

  on YouTube is it is a slightly different [TS]

  thing but it is it is by no means like [TS]

  some kind of outrageous thing to do [TS]

  right it's exactly the kind of thing [TS]

  that a media company would do if they [TS]

  have a successful property because [TS]

  that's what media companies do [TS]

  yeah and so is not watching I'm like [TS]

  okay well you know what this is [TS]

  whatever about this but the but the [TS]

  problem that happened was that as the [TS]

  video went on they were talking about [TS]

  other people like using their format or [TS]

  like making similar videos to them and [TS]

  ask your audience to kind of boycott [TS]

  people who are infringing on their [TS]

  intellectual property rights and that's [TS]

  to me wear it [TS]

  it flipped over into this perfect storm [TS]

  because then there is this like [TS]

  misunderstanding that the fine brothers [TS]

  are claiming ownership of all kinds of [TS]

  react videos which I don't think was [TS]

  their intention in the original video [TS]

  but it's like man if you guys make a [TS]

  video and you put it out to 14 million [TS]

  subscribers the vast majority of of your [TS]

  viewers they don't have a clear [TS]

  understanding of the difference between [TS]

  copyright trademark and licensing and [TS]

  branding deals that you can't expect [TS]

  them to understand the distinction of [TS]

  these things because they're really [TS]

  complicated things and even as someone [TS]

  who works in this field like you have to [TS]

  think about it sometimes like okay what [TS]

  are the difference between these [TS]

  different things and so I think like [TS]

  that was one of the things that made it [TS]

  like a perfect storm is because [TS]

  tons of people make react videos because [TS]

  frankly they're very easy to make and so [TS]

  then this video ends up kind of [TS]

  unintentionally sounding like the fine [TS]

  brothers are going to own all reaction [TS]

  videos and I just I don't think that was [TS]

  that their intention from the first [TS]

  video but it sure is held sounded like [TS]

  it i disagree with the i disagree with [TS]

  you bro [TS]

  okay was it i don't know i think it was [TS]

  their intention they trademark the word [TS]

  react on its own [TS]

  yeah they did they didn't say that at [TS]

  the time yeah yeah but they had done and [TS]

  let me tell you something else who let [TS]

  me take you back in time to 8 pro 2014 [TS]

  ok i made a video no reaction video [TS]

  which was basically it was really a [TS]

  parody of reaction videos you know you [TS]

  know how i make those parodies of [TS]

  calculator and box comic and boxing [TS]

  paradise where people i can calculate [TS]

  the boxes i do like my comment on the [TS]

  silliness of unboxing videos i made a [TS]

  reaction video the same thing when I got [TS]

  a bunch of the professors in my videos [TS]

  to play the game 2048 I'm gonna like [TS]

  this one where that one that was the [TS]

  very sight guys to go don't go start [TS]

  sending me messages about how threes [TS]

  better i'm not our users but was [TS]

  developed as a three way better if I [TS]

  know if we will eventually three threes [TS]

  is the one that I'd like but 2048x2048 [TS]

  was the zeitgeist you think that week [TS]

  and that's what we did I know that one [TS]

  of the mindshare that one is the [TS]

  mindshare anyway so i made that I made [TS]

  that video i received an email from the [TS]

  fine brothers now I i I'm not one for [TS]

  sharing emails that are sent to me by [TS]

  people because I just think that [TS]

  correspondence between people but I this [TS]

  does not feel like a very personal email [TS]

  to me they didn't know who I was they [TS]

  didn't use my name [TS]

  even so it was clearly a it was clearly [TS]

  quite a generic email and internet they [TS]

  were pretty much warning me off starting [TS]

  a professor's reactor series in 2014 [TS]

  that they were really they were really [TS]

  polite and nice and part of it said we [TS]

  saw your video we thought it was we [TS]

  thought it was really cool you know [TS]

  we assume this was a one-off but are [TS]

  hoping the plan isn't to start doing [TS]

  things like this all the time calling [TS]

  things blank react to and playing games [TS]

  or watching videos like our company does [TS]

  then held at and obviously already [TS]

  thinking about this licensing thing [TS]

  because they then talk about maybe [TS]

  there's a way we could work on something [TS]

  like this together but it would be [TS]

  difficult with the distance but we could [TS]

  maybe start talking about it but [TS]

  everything I start talking about but in [TS]

  the spirit of the YouTube community [TS]

  we're hoping that this is just a one-off [TS]

  and you're not planning to do more of it [TS]

  so this was this was two years before I [TS]

  made one reaction video and I was [TS]

  basically been told don't do you [TS]

  shouldn't do it again it would be [TS]

  against the spirit of YouTube we hope [TS]

  you're not planning to make more of them [TS]

  like our company our company does so i [TS]

  think i think that was thinking about [TS]

  this then you know [TS]

  yeah I mean yeah that that that doesn't [TS]

  that doesn't look good [TS]

  I but i have no I don't know these guys [TS]

  by the way and I think you know [TS]

  obviously make good videos I saw them [TS]

  gave a talk once at VidCon but you know [TS]

  I have no yeah yeah we should be sure [TS]

  that it's minutes it's a funny position [TS]

  to be in because as well i don't i don't [TS]

  know the fine brothers and I don't watch [TS]

  their videos but it's a thing like the [TS]

  fine brothers know lots of people [TS]

  because they have a whole channel that's [TS]

  like whatever the whole series of these [TS]

  youtubers react yeah they're very very [TS]

  well-connected in the YouTube community [TS]

  yeah they're very well-connected people [TS]

  but i do not know them [TS]

  I'm not familiar with their work yeah [TS]

  very much but yeah I guess part of the [TS]

  the stories that were going around at [TS]

  the time and I can't say I like I didn't [TS]

  go in and verify them but apparently [TS]

  they had some spat with like TV channels [TS]

  that we're doing people reacting to [TS]

  stuff like I think they they clearly had [TS]

  some sense of propriety over the idea of [TS]

  react channels that were react video [TS]

  that was [TS]

  out of scope with reality [TS]

  yeah that that's what happened i think [TS]

  that they made something very good and [TS]

  very successful and and continue to be [TS]

  successful and I think they suddenly [TS]

  thought I think I got it I got it I got [TS]

  a bit carried away with how much it was [TS]

  theirs i think obviously forgot that it [TS]

  was not a new thing [TS]

  yeah i mean ok so like to go into the [TS]

  details of this for a second though when [TS]

  I was watching this thing they're [TS]

  talking about licensing and Trademark so [TS]

  this thing comes up every once in a [TS]

  while where you hear that the company is [TS]

  trying to trademark a word this time it [TS]

  happens to be the fine brothers and [TS]

  react but this kind of thing comes up on [TS]

  the internet every once in a while when [TS]

  when companies do this [TS]

  sony try to trade my let's play tonight [TS]

  yeah I think they did so I mean one of [TS]

  the things with with trademarks that [TS]

  people need to understand is the [TS]

  trademarks are relatively narrow and of [TS]

  the three kinds of intellectual property [TS]

  copyrights patents and trademarks I [TS]

  think that trademarks are the least [TS]

  problematic of any of them because the [TS]

  idea of trademark is it supposed to be [TS]

  you you as a consumer by seeing these [TS]

  words in this circumstance know that [TS]

  this company is the one behind it [TS]

  this is that this is the whole idea like [TS]

  coca-cola right like you can make soda [TS]

  but you can't call it coca-cola because [TS]

  that is a trademark to let you know that [TS]

  the coca-cola company has made this [TS]

  thing like they have the purpose of [TS]

  trademarks and when people apply for [TS]

  trademarks you have to specify where and [TS]

  how those trademarks are going to be [TS]

  used and the thing is funny about this [TS]

  whole fine brothers thing this is like [TS]

  it blew up over trademarks but like I [TS]

  have the trademark and I that very [TS]

  morning this fine brothers thing [TS]

  occurred i had actually used a trademark [TS]

  I hadn't forced to trademark to gain [TS]

  control of like a URL squatter basically [TS]

  like this is this is what trademarks are [TS]

  42 like you can't have someone represent [TS]

  themselves as you or your company if you [TS]

  have a trademark like this is the [TS]

  presumably your trademark is your name [TS]

  yeah that's that super weird thing right [TS]

  like I have trained like cgpgrey just [TS]

  this [TS]

  very funny thing but yeah it would end [TS]

  and that's what i was using it's like [TS]

  someone else was was using cgpgrey [TS]

  that's like okay that's nobody else's [TS]

  name like I have trademark this thing [TS]

  yeah represent yourself on the internet [TS]

  in this way so when people talk about [TS]

  like they were trying to trademark the [TS]

  word react [TS]

  I would be shocked if that trademark was [TS]

  actually granted and even if it was [TS]

  granted if it was enforceable because [TS]

  it's just it's too broad it's too [TS]

  generic and like there's no way they [TS]

  were gonna be able to take down [TS]

  everybody's videos that were using the [TS]

  word we had apparently they were great [TS]

  power because obviously the truck onian [TS]

  way that the YouTube system works and [TS]

  YouTube's fear of running into legal [TS]

  problems is their kind of error on the [TS]

  side of caution and if someone says RI [TS]

  and the trademark on that word they kind [TS]

  of take down first and ask questions [TS]

  later and a lot of react stuff [TS]

  apparently i don't know they didn't they [TS]

  didn't take down my video two years ago [TS]

  by the way they made no attempt as far [TS]

  as I know they made no attempt to take [TS]

  it down so I'm not saying they tried to [TS]

  take mine down but a lot of other people [TS]

  internet more recently have been saying [TS]

  they have had problems with it i don't [TS]

  know if it's true but a lot of people [TS]

  were saying and and they've acknowledged [TS]

  it because they say they have said all [TS]

  we're trying to undo those now they said [TS]

  we had nothing to do with i think they [TS]

  said it was there there multi-channel [TS]

  network that did on their behalf and [TS]

  they said they were trying to undo that [TS]

  mess now but so it does seem that it was [TS]

  happening so that means that this is [TS]

  again what why I think partly this blow [TS]

  up into this this big thing is because [TS]

  there's a lot of frustrations that [TS]

  people have with the whole way that [TS]

  YouTube deals with intellectual property [TS]

  and and enforcement and yes there is a [TS]

  bit of a like takedown first ask [TS]

  questions later a policy that YouTube [TS]

  has but but one of the things one of the [TS]

  things that I was was just astounded by [TS]

  is that that [TS]

  Hank green wrote an article which was [TS]

  talking about explaining that the the [TS]

  whole controversy which you put it on [TS]

  medium which are linked to but there's [TS]

  one line in there which was astounding [TS]

  to me where he said that YouTube [TS]

  apparently gives some creators some of [TS]

  the big creators the power to on their [TS]

  own without oversight take down other [TS]

  people's videos which is amazing to me [TS]

  and I think maybe that's what's [TS]

  happening work or that's what had [TS]

  happened with some of these people [TS]

  saying like the fine brothers were able [TS]

  to just take down my video is that like [TS]

  the fine brothers it sounds from this [TS]

  were one of those people who have the [TS]

  ability to just like press a button and [TS]

  nuke someone's video off of off of the [TS]

  YouTube platform and I just I cannot [TS]

  believe that this is this is part of [TS]

  YouTube system and it just it it's like [TS]

  fuel on the fire so like I'm not sure if [TS]

  they were you know properly enforcing [TS]

  trademarks or what but it seems like [TS]

  they were able to take down videos that [TS]

  they thought and they felt were just too [TS]

  close to what they were doing and this [TS]

  is just bad it's really bad do I don't [TS]

  want to come to your I don't want to [TS]

  come to your video yet right I want to [TS]

  ask you separately about your video that [TS]

  you made on this issue in a couple of [TS]

  minutes but the funny thing is the way [TS]

  we've been discussing it so far [TS]

  you almost sound more sympathetic to [TS]

  them then than i do and i actually do [TS]

  feel a little bit sympathetic to worry [TS]

  about that [TS]

  so it's kind of this conversation has [TS]

  gone differently to what i expected [TS]

  because i have I actually i feel i feel [TS]

  a bit sorry for them in some ways but [TS]

  your talk you you're talking like you [TS]

  think they had pure motives and it just [TS]

  came out wrong and I actually don't [TS]

  believe that I think they are getting a [TS]

  bit greedy and they got caught with [TS]

  their fingers in the cookie jar [TS]

  they got disproportionately slapped [TS]

  around because of it we can discuss [TS]

  whether it was disproportionately minute [TS]

  they certainly got slapped around very [TS]

  hard because of it and and they climbed [TS]

  down from this position either because [TS]

  they changed their mind or it was gonna [TS]

  it was starting to have serious business [TS]

  implications for them I don't know which [TS]

  but they certainly climbed down and you [TS]

  seem to be saying are they just didn't [TS]

  communicate very clearly and therefore [TS]

  they got in trouble [TS]

  I think they were doing a bit of smoke [TS]

  and mirrors and making it sound like a [TS]

  great opportunity for everyone when [TS]

  really they were trying to take [TS]

  ownership of something that I'm not [TS]

  entirely convinced they had the right to [TS]

  take ownership of and they were and they [TS]

  were getting dollar signs in their eyes [TS]

  yeah i think there is there's no [TS]

  argument about them [TS]

  owning the idea of reaction videos like [TS]

  this is clear prior art there's there's [TS]

  no there's no universe in which they own [TS]

  the idea of reaction videos justjust [TS]

  without up without it [TS]

  yeah without a doubt the question is of [TS]

  this whole idea of like licensing what [TS]

  they do in particular like that you [TS]

  think that's a very different question [TS]

  and you're great i was clearly trying to [TS]

  setup this licensing program but i think [TS]

  it was running in parallel with a more [TS]

  concerted campaign to stop other people [TS]

  making reaction videos i think that was [TS]

  happening in parallel they weren't [TS]

  talking about that so much because [TS]

  that's not such a nice thing to talk [TS]

  about in a positive let's do it together [TS]

  video but that was clearly happening at [TS]

  the exact same time these two things [TS]

  were happening in concert [TS]

  yeah maybe I guess that this is this is [TS]

  the exact conversation that I've been [TS]

  having with with many people with like [TS]

  why are you more angry about this like [TS]

  aren't you the guy made some videos like [TS]

  super angry about this and and I do feel [TS]

  like my opinion on this is largely like [TS]

  that their trademarks would have been [TS]

  just unenforceable anyway like you like [TS]

  what it like the the worst-case scenario [TS]

  here is that they would have gotten some [TS]

  trademark but it would never have held [TS]

  up you know the idea of trademarking the [TS]

  word react just just like every other [TS]

  company that tries to trademark a single [TS]

  word [TS]

  it just never holds up or it never gets [TS]

  accepted because it's just too broad [TS]

  it's too is not specific enough right [TS]

  it's not like you're trademarking [TS]

  mountain dew at when you are selling [TS]

  sodas right it's just it's just not [TS]

  specific enough so that's why I don't [TS]

  like what it's not the trademark but [TS]

  it's it's more water it's more the [TS]

  intent at signals it's more the intent [TS]

  that we're getting you know make it was [TS]

  there were they were trying to create an [TS]

  arsenal of weapons that would help them [TS]

  stop other people may create videos and [TS]

  a trademark [TS]

  is one of the arrows in your quiver and [TS]

  whether or not that arrow was successful [TS]

  or got it got taken out of the queen of [TS]

  it doesn't matter it shows what they [TS]

  were doing another thing that shows what [TS]

  they're doing with his takedowns another [TS]

  thing that shows what they were doing is [TS]

  maybe emails like the one I alluded to [TS]

  before there were you know this was [TS]

  clearly happening they clearly thought [TS]

  it was their thing and other people [TS]

  shouldn't be doing it so whether or not [TS]

  the the trademark is a is a red herring [TS]

  I admit that you know you're worried [TS]

  about whether the trademark was [TS]

  enforceable okay well they could be [TS]

  court cases and whatever but there was a [TS]

  whole other thing going on that was not [TS]

  being talked about almost being hidden [TS]

  by this whole licensing thing they [TS]

  clearly felt a ridiculous ownership over [TS]

  the idea of people reacting to stuff and [TS]

  I don't like I just I just found it here [TS]

  which is that the thing where they were [TS]

  criticizing the ellen degeneres show [TS]

  because they Ellen DeGeneres did it's [TS]

  apparently some bit where she was [TS]

  showing kids old technology [TS]

  yeah and-and-and the quote here from the [TS]

  fine brothers his wow the ellen show did [TS]

  the kids reacting to old technology [TS]

  didn't mention us that didn't check with [TS]

  us not cool [TS]

  you need to go to their Facebook and [TS]

  blast the kids react links and it's like [TS]

  okay well there there's them trying to [TS]

  rally up an angry mob against the ellen [TS]

  degeneres show for having people look at [TS]

  things and make comments about them [TS]

  yeah and to me that is like okay you are [TS]

  just out of touch with what you have [TS]

  made and its importance in the world and [TS]

  your own [TS]

  your own [TS]

  ship of it and like that's the thing [TS]

  that for me was was the really galling [TS]

  part about it because like I totally [TS]

  agree with you that the trademark in [TS]

  some way doesn't matter i think the idea [TS]

  of doing a licensing deal like whatever [TS]

  it's just boring business who cares it's [TS]

  a totally standard thing but to me the [TS]

  the galling things like the way they [TS]

  presented themselves was that was the [TS]

  thing that just really set me on edge [TS]

  like I cannot believe you guys have made [TS]

  this video about how amazingly important [TS]

  you react videos are and and how you [TS]

  want everybody to to join in on this [TS]

  thing didn't I say change the world [TS]

  i downloaded the video as soon as i saw [TS]

  it because i thought surely they're [TS]

  gonna take this video down and I want to [TS]

  make sure I've got up here because I [TS]

  thought there's no way this video is [TS]

  gonna last another hour of me in today [TS]

  but I'm sure every man that dog did that [TS]

  take [TS]

  at this point in the podcast I'm going [TS]

  to edit in some of this video because [TS]

  you just you have to hear this people it [TS]

  is on believable [TS]

  I really think you should find some of [TS]

  the many really uploads on video to see [TS]

  it like seeing it is a whole other thing [TS]

  because it's just strangely put together [TS]

  but for those listening i'm just going [TS]

  to put in a couple of Clips so you can [TS]

  hear we're talking about [TS]

  hello everyone our company has grown so [TS]

  much over the years and we are so [TS]

  grateful to have experienced this with [TS]

  all of you who've been with us for years [TS]

  as well as new people to join the fine [TS]

  family everyday we're now announcing [TS]

  this big thing that will bring us closer [TS]

  than ever before [TS]

  by creating a new way for us to create [TS]

  content together this is not only a huge [TS]

  step for our company but for the entire [TS]

  global media industry ever since react [TS]

  first debuted over five years ago we saw [TS]

  the impact of the series we strive with [TS]

  react to be making episodes will not [TS]

  just be interesting and entertaining now [TS]

  but live on forever as a time capsule [TS]

  even a hundred years from now that [TS]

  people can look back with various [TS]

  generations were saying about culture [TS]

  and the issues of our time we are [TS]

  excited to announce react world with the [TS]

  first-of-its-kind program that allows [TS]

  people and companies to license all [TS]

  popular shows online so that anyone even [TS]

  you watching right now you can create [TS]

  your own versions in a fully legal way [TS]

  that a part of a new and exciting [TS]

  the community and digital media has [TS]

  become more corporate the spirit wanted [TS]

  to do things differently than [TS]

  traditional Hollywood started to [TS]

  dissipate but our company has never lost [TS]

  that spirit by licensing are formats and [TS]

  trademarks everyone will know that [TS]

  you're doing this legally with our [TS]

  company's guidance we are so motivated [TS]

  for this to know that our formats can [TS]

  inspire millions of people and open it [TS]

  up for all of you to have the chance to [TS]

  do the same as exciting as anything we [TS]

  have ever done before and we look [TS]

  forward to the time when we can look [TS]

  back to this moment to this video with [TS]

  all of you knowing that this was when we [TS]

  all stood together change the way things [TS]

  were done and created this [TS]

  first-of-its-kind global community we [TS]

  can't wait to work with so many of you [TS]

  and change the world together the hair [TS]

  lines of like we are going to make this [TS]

  a global phenomenon with all of you [TS]

  there's the part where they talk about [TS]

  how react videos are going to be looked [TS]

  back upon in a hundred years as an [TS]

  amazing time capsule of like current day [TS]

  events and yes we do talk about changing [TS]

  the world together it's it's it's [TS]

  amazing it's amazing because okay so [TS]

  listen I like something i just want to [TS]

  make clear before we continue to talk [TS]

  about this react videos when you use [TS]

  that phrase it covers a wide variety of [TS]

  things some of which I think are are [TS]

  just like the worst lowest content on [TS]

  YouTube and some of which are just like [TS]

  barely acceptable content but people [TS]

  like react videos I have no problem with [TS]

  that they're not for me but I don't care [TS]

  if like if people like you think that's [TS]

  totally fine right you can't argue [TS]

  against people liking it but there's no [TS]

  doubt that this is just the minimum [TS]

  amount of effort that you can possibly [TS]

  put in to create content because you you [TS]

  take somebody else's thing and you film [TS]

  some people reacting to it just [TS]

  occasionally making comments about [TS]

  you're not creating the emotion someone [TS]

  else's hard work is creating the emotion [TS]

  of the video [TS]

  exactly i think other person is doing [TS]

  the heavy lifting here and then you are [TS]

  just filming reactions you're not like [TS]

  you're not lighting the fire you're just [TS]

  warming your hands up with it if you're [TS]

  warming your hands up with someone [TS]

  else's fire and I think this is another [TS]

  element of like the perfect storm miss [TS]

  of this because [TS]

  I don't know for a fact i have heard [TS]

  secondhand that the fine brothers do get [TS]

  permission for all of the videos that [TS]

  they react to [TS]

  I don't know if that's true let's just [TS]

  assume that it is for this conversation [TS]

  but there are plenty of react channels [TS]

  that just they just they just copyright [TS]

  infringement channels they take other [TS]

  popular videos and they filmed [TS]

  themselves as a person looking at their [TS]

  computer screen and reacting to the [TS]

  thing that's on screen but then they'll [TS]

  put whatever it is in the corner so you [TS]

  can just watch it there [TS]

  that's a transformative work right it's [TS]

  transformative yeah it's not even [TS]

  remotely transformative and I think like [TS]

  that's another reason why this really [TS]

  blew up as a thing because on youtube [TS]

  like those contract channels like people [TS]

  just hate it because it's you just [TS]

  taking someone else's work and you're [TS]

  making money off of it and you're giving [TS]

  like no credit to the original person [TS]

  the worst thing is many of those [TS]

  channels will then sanctimoniously say [TS]

  like oh we're doing this to promote the [TS]

  other channels like snow yeah yeah its [TS]

  exposure it's like if it was I'd be [TS]

  happy to receive it but I don't like [TS]

  please don't react to my videos where [TS]

  it's just your face looking at the [TS]

  screen saying nothing sometimes as my [TS]

  actual video plays like that stuff isn't [TS]

  fury ating yeah right but i think that [TS]

  like that's why the fine brothers think [TS]

  blow-up is like okay there's plenty of [TS]

  people out there who just can't stand [TS]

  react channels but then on top of it to [TS]

  to make this video where you're talking [TS]

  about how like react channels could [TS]

  change the world together and like [TS]

  you're doing this amazing culturally [TS]

  important thing i mean when i watch the [TS]

  video just like outcome on off Matt [TS]

  right like you just you're just filming [TS]

  someone reacting to a thing that you [TS]

  didn't make it I was not familiar with [TS]

  the fine brothers before this except [TS]

  only in like the dimmest way of like a [TS]

  right fine brothers have heard their [TS]

  name but I when I watched some of the [TS]

  reaction videos and it's like oh yeah [TS]

  this is exactly what I would have [TS]

  expected just like the easiest type of [TS]

  content to create in the world and again [TS]

  there's there's nothing wrong with [TS]

  things being easy right the world [TS]

  doesn't doesn't reward people in [TS]

  proportion to how hard they work nor [TS]

  should it but it's it's that contrast [TS]

  like you just making this super easy [TS]

  thing and you're also telling people [TS]

  have super important [TS]

  it is like that that's one of the like [TS]

  triggers in this perfect storm I like [TS]

  why people got so riled up about these [TS]

  videos so can I be fun to your video for [TS]

  a bit ok alright let me tell people how [TS]

  your video and folded from my end [TS]

  because I guess something a bit [TS]

  different then you can tell me your end [TS]

  I coincidentally started communicating [TS]

  with you via text messages [TS]

  not long after you first heard about [TS]

  this and so this right and because i had [TS]

  meant to bring it up with you but I [TS]

  thought you'd probably be off in one of [TS]

  your bubbles and didn't want to know [TS]

  about it yet [TS]

  and then you message me I think of [TS]

  something about it and I said oh that's [TS]

  funny I didn't want to talk to you about [TS]

  it and you were not acting like outraged [TS]

  or really really upset but you were more [TS]

  engaged than usual I could I could tell [TS]

  you thought it was really interesting [TS]

  and with you and I was joking was [TS]

  sending each other a few jokes and I [TS]

  actually said hi actually you already [TS]

  thought of it obviously who as we soon [TS]

  find out [TS]

  but I even sent you a joke side haha you [TS]

  know you could try it you could trade [TS]

  mark stick figures right yeah but you [TS]

  know we were making a few jokes about it [TS]

  like we do and then within a minute of [TS]

  me making that stick figure crack you [TS]

  sent me a recording of your script which [TS]

  you obviously already had when you did [TS]

  that exact thing and made a joke about [TS]

  you trademarking stick figures and you [TS]

  did it in that funny voice that kind of [TS]

  enthusiastic California voice that you [TS]

  did it in [TS]

  I thought it was really funny and I [TS]

  actually went downstairs because i told [TS]

  my wife a little bit about the [TS]

  controversy and I said haha listen to [TS]

  what greater sent me and I played it to [TS]

  her and she thought it was really funny [TS]

  as well so we had a laugh about it it's [TS]

  the it's the self-important blogger [TS]

  voice yeah exactly yes sort of the yeah [TS]

  a lot of beauty bloggers sort of talk [TS]

  like that and so anyway I came I came [TS]

  back upstairs and I think in the space [TS]

  of time that I had been downstairs you [TS]

  had put the video on youtube I thought I [TS]

  didn't actually know if you're going to [TS]

  do it but I thought if you did you're [TS]

  going to have to animate it but you [TS]

  obviously didn't go for animation you [TS]

  just went for a single card so you had [TS]

  turned around really quickly and it was [TS]

  up and funnily enough my wife and came [TS]

  upstairs and she said she actually said [TS]

  you are going to advise great not to put [TS]

  that on YouTube about you [TS]

  and I and I told you I said I said too [TS]

  late he's already done it like it and [TS]

  and i have to say i thought it was funny [TS]

  I thought it was clever i thought it was [TS]

  a very fair criticism and iOS one satire [TS]

  a very effective way of criticizing [TS]

  someone and i am still and I'm [TS]

  definitely not the only one among people [TS]

  who know you i'm still absolutely [TS]

  astounded that you did it cannot believe [TS]

  it's like it's like someone else took [TS]

  over he took over your body for the day [TS]

  that you would do that because I will [TS]

  say this like I think there's lots of [TS]

  things that you do a weird and I know [TS]

  they work for you and I find really [TS]

  interesting and you know you're a good [TS]

  friend and I'm happy things work for you [TS]

  but if there's one thing that I have [TS]

  learned from you that i have taken from [TS]

  our friendship that has made me a better [TS]

  person and a happier person who it is [TS]

  your ability to kind of ride above [TS]

  controversy to not get involved with [TS]

  things that don't affect you you are the [TS]

  master of not being having your feathers [TS]

  ruffled by things that shouldn't ruffle [TS]

  your feathers and very often things that [TS]

  used to really upset me and I'd take to [TS]

  Twitter or i'd send angry emails and not [TS]

  get upset so often I just sit back and I [TS]

  even think about great i think you know [TS]

  what grade would do would be really good [TS]

  here he would think it through here [TS]

  would think this doesn't affect me i [TS]

  don't need to get involved [TS]

  I don't need to put my oar in the water [TS]

  I'll just do my own thing you know [TS]

  think before you act and in this case [TS]

  something that had nothing to do with [TS]

  you [TS]

  it didn't affect you in anyway you [TS]

  didn't need to put in your two cents [TS]

  worth and kick these guys who already [TS]

  been kicked from a thousand different [TS]

  angles it's not like they needed there [TS]

  kicking and you just jumped in with this [TS]

  huge kick it like you know and you know [TS]

  hundreds of the other how many people [TS]

  watch that hundreds of thousands of [TS]

  million i don't know but it was a very [TS]

  good night did really well the video but [TS]

  I can't believe you did I still can't [TS]

  believe you did it [TS]

  why did you do it I told you after i [TS]

  uploaded this video that this is [TS]

  something I would have never done a year [TS]

  ago and [TS]

  actually put it down in no small part to [TS]

  your influence through his company i'm [TS]

  not saying that it's your fault or [TS]

  anything you are constantly constantly [TS]

  berating me for not just going with [TS]

  things like color to you always want to [TS]

  make sure like great you have to just go [TS]

  along with this thing right here always [TS]

  trying to get me to just be more [TS]

  spontaneous and just do stuff and I felt [TS]

  like putting up that video that was [TS]

  totally a brady influence right we have [TS]

  it if we had never done this podcast I [TS]

  would never have put up those videos [TS]

  well I think that's good because because [TS]

  the criticism i would have you is I [TS]

  sometimes think you don't have the [TS]

  courage of your convictions like there [TS]

  are things that I know you feel feel [TS]

  about you know you have have opinions of [TS]

  buns [TS]

  what's right or wrong or even if you [TS]

  don't know what's wrong you certainly [TS]

  have opinions and then and then you'll [TS]

  say we should talk about other podcasts [TS]

  or just causes a world of trouble [TS]

  it's not worth the hassle let's just [TS]

  talk about something else and that's and [TS]

  that's fair enough and I've learned from [TS]

  that so to sit to see you feeling [TS]

  passionately about something in an act [TS]

  on it is a good thing i guess but but i [TS]

  still think I still don't know why this [TS]

  was the thing that made you do it and [TS]

  that and and yet this one you know with [TS]

  these in a community you move among as [TS]

  well you know you're at your YouTube you [TS]

  don't know the fine brothers as far as i [TS]

  know but you're certainly friends with [TS]

  some of their friends yet like it in [TS]

  some ways this is like an incredibly [TS]

  career stupid move [TS]

  yeah like your lie i think you're you're [TS]

  you're probably make them at some point [TS]

  just some I know you don't go to many [TS]

  things but there's a present as [TS]

  certainly as you would say a non-trivial [TS]

  chance that your your paths will cross [TS]

  with the fire brothers and now you've [TS]

  made this quite well-known video [TS]

  completely ripping the piss out of them [TS]

  to videos but to videos so it [TS]

  yes right gray also spoke to the apology [TS]

  video so yeah so he had keep them twice [TS]

  ok so just like I think this was a [TS]

  perfect storm of things that might turn [TS]

  this into a big deal on the internet the [TS]

  reason I reacted is is I felt like this [TS]

  video was a perfect storm of things for [TS]

  me right which is why I reacted so again [TS]

  just like just with just with everybody [TS]

  with with every opinion that everybody [TS]

  has on every [TS]

  things like there's there are levels [TS]

  above and below which you're going to [TS]

  cause actions and not that's what I am [TS]

  very much a person who just like doesn't [TS]

  Karen and avoids internet drama for the [TS]

  most part but I felt like almost like [TS]

  these two videos that they made the [TS]

  first announcement and then especially [TS]

  the update video that was that was [TS]

  really the one that put me over the edge [TS]

  I felt like these two things couldn't [TS]

  have been more perfectly crafted to it [TS]

  to annoy exactly be like that's how I [TS]

  felt about those videos like they had [TS]

  sat down and looked at an MRI scan of my [TS]

  brain and come up with the thing that [TS]

  could maximally frustrate me and so that [TS]

  this is why I reacted and I also reacted [TS]

  because I thought as soon as I saw that [TS]

  update video i made the two videos x 111 [TS]

  as a mockery of the the first [TS]

  announcement and one as a mockery of [TS]

  their update video but i only made the [TS]

  two because I really just wanted to make [TS]

  the second one so to make the second 1i [TS]

  had to do the first one as well and [TS]

  that's why I made both of them the thing [TS]

  one about this that annoys me and this [TS]

  is just this is just my own personal [TS]

  situation but I I get frustrated by [TS]

  these huge channels that have like big [TS]

  staffs of people working for them that [TS]

  then also want to talk like they're just [TS]

  a person in their bedroom making videos [TS]

  I mean this is the final thing like you [TS]

  and I Brady like for the large part we [TS]

  we are still individuals making videos [TS]

  like we work with people on occasion to [TS]

  help us make videos you have someone who [TS]

  is making the computer file videos for [TS]

  you but neither of us have like [TS]

  employees and just like omnipresent [TS]

  dozens of staff who are helping us out [TS]

  with stuff [TS]

  yeah that and the fine brothers it were [TS]

  just being like this pinnacle example of [TS]

  trying to talk like oh we're just were [TS]

  just some normal people and we want to [TS]

  we want to make videos to would bring [TS]

  this to the world that's amazing but [TS]

  like we also are sitting on top of these [TS]

  hundreds and hundreds of millions of [TS]

  views and 14 million subscribers and [TS]

  we're showing pictures of our company [TS]

  that has 20 employees the distance [TS]

  between like what you are and the way [TS]

  you are portraying yourself [TS]

  that just kind of infuriates me hide my [TS]

  feelings like there's nothing wrong with [TS]

  being a giant company but if you are a [TS]

  company with a whole bunch of people [TS]

  like you have to talk in a different way [TS]

  when you're discussing your plans so [TS]

  what because I mean obviously obviously [TS]

  you don't think people who have this [TS]

  success and go in this direction of [TS]

  starting companies like lose their right [TS]

  to to be people and talk to them or do [TS]

  not at all obviously you're not saying [TS]

  that [TS]

  so what is it about the way they spike [TS]

  because these two brothers sort of front [TS]

  of the video and yes but directly added [TS]

  out there audience so I wrote down a [TS]

  couple quotes like almost in in the very [TS]

  beginning they do this thing that [TS]

  companies do that I just absolutely hate [TS]

  which is talking in terms of a family so [TS]

  they have a reference about like [TS]

  everybody who's joining the fine family [TS]

  and this is a thing like when I would [TS]

  work in schools ask okay school is [TS]

  already so much closer to a family that [TS]

  accompany ever is but boy did it [TS]

  irritate the crap out of me whenever the [TS]

  administrative staff in any of the [TS]

  schools that i worked at talked about [TS]

  like everybody is a family like you know [TS]

  what we're not a family you want to use [TS]

  the word family to have a certain [TS]

  feeling in the people who are working [TS]

  for you but family is not even remotely [TS]

  this word right like i just it just sets [TS]

  me right on edge like I hate that kind [TS]

  of thing where someone is trying to [TS]

  appropriate a more friendly word in a [TS]

  situation that is not even remotely [TS]

  applicable right so they're talking [TS]

  about like join the fine family it's [TS]

  going to bring us closer than ever [TS]

  before like excuse me could you explain [TS]

  to me what about your licensing program [TS]

  is going to bring this quote family [TS]

  closer than ever before [TS]

  like it's a business deal there's [TS]

  nothing wrong with the business deal [TS]

  there's nothing wrong with doing [TS]

  licensing but i think it's it's just [TS]

  gross to presented in this way and then [TS]

  and then they transition from talking [TS]

  about a family to talking about like the [TS]

  community like we want to do this with [TS]

  the community and for the community and [TS]

  how this is great for the community [TS]

  and that's the other one that just again [TS]

  as a kind of a YouTube thing that just [TS]

  really bothers me like I don't like the [TS]

  use of the word community especially in [TS]

  this kind of situation with the fine [TS]

  brothers where it's like what community [TS]

  where is this community right i think [TS]

  what you have is an audience like you [TS]

  should use the word audience here [TS]

  there's a large number of people who are [TS]

  watching you do with thing and there's [TS]

  nothing wrong with that but you want to [TS]

  use the word community to put in [TS]

  people's mind this vision of like a [TS]

  village where we're all equal and all [TS]

  working together for a thing as opposed [TS]

  to the actual situation which is like [TS]

  the two of you are the focus of [TS]

  everything in the world and all of the [TS]

  individuals on the outside are separated [TS]

  from each other and they're only focal [TS]

  point is you I think the reason why [TS]

  people use the word community on YouTube [TS]

  is because the word fan is uncomfortable [TS]

  like we discussed this right i don't [TS]

  like using the word fan and one of the [TS]

  main reasons why i don't i don't like to [TS]

  and will not try never to say something [TS]

  like my fans because fan implies [TS]

  something about the internal emotional [TS]

  state of the person right they are a [TS]

  person who just loves everything that [TS]

  you do for it applies the fanatical yeah [TS]

  right exactly that that's what it means [TS]

  yeah and so this is why like I wish that [TS]

  people who were uncomfortable with the [TS]

  term fan wouldn't jump to the word [TS]

  community because the word community is [TS]

  a lie like unless you are actually [TS]

  making your audience into a community by [TS]

  having them arranged gatherings like [TS]

  where they independently of you do [TS]

  things like okay if that's occurring [TS]

  that is a community but if you are the [TS]

  central focus all the time of everything [TS]

  that's occurring what you have is an [TS]

  audience and so like that is what i try [TS]

  to use the word audience i also like [TS]

  audience because it's like well all it [TS]

  says is that there are people who are [TS]

  watching what you do but it again it [TS]

  doesn't put a mental state in their head [TS]

  these are fanatics who love you it's [TS]

  just an it's an audience like that's [TS]

  what it is and this is the act [TS]

  cool relationship here like a person is [TS]

  on stage and there are people watching [TS]

  what they're doing so all the community [TS]

  stuff it just again like when they're [TS]

  trying to make a business deal that is [TS]

  just like perfectly designed to irritate [TS]

  me like whenever I hear the word [TS]

  community it's just like our it sets my [TS]

  teeth on edge if the if there is no [TS]

  actual community they're like that's [TS]

  that's why that first video just it its [TS]

  setting off on the wrong foot like I [TS]

  cannot believe how frustrating this is [TS]

  and then the other thing about that [TS]

  which i mentioned earlier is like this [TS]

  amazing misunderstanding of who are they [TS]

  making this video for its ok they have [TS]

  an audience but the very fact that they [TS]

  are putting out this video to me seemed [TS]

  like some kind of amazing [TS]

  misunderstanding of who their audiences [TS]

  like how many of your subscribers do you [TS]

  think care at all about your licensing [TS]

  deal here like this this just seems [TS]

  amazingly tone-deaf and then to follow [TS]

  like oh we have this licensing deal [TS]

  thing with i was looking at trying to [TS]

  put the time for the video but like the [TS]

  second half of the video is an entirely [TS]

  all about like make sure that you don't [TS]

  watch any videos that are different [TS]

  react videos make sure you only watch [TS]

  our react videos and kind of like [TS]

  boycott people who are doing it [TS]

  illegally and if you want to do it [TS]

  legally do it through our licensing [TS]

  program so that that first video like [TS]

  kind of set me off like all man this is [TS]

  just [TS]

  I think I tweeted something about like [TS]

  this is like perfectly wrong in every [TS]

  way that it can possibly be [TS]

  yeah like it's going to be misunderstood [TS]

  it is aimed at an audience who can't [TS]

  possibly care less and will only be [TS]

  irritated by the implication that [TS]

  they're doing something wrong by [TS]

  watching other react videos or making [TS]

  react videos and this false friendliness [TS]

  of like we're a community where a family [TS]

  like you're coming into our family it's [TS]

  like yeah but in families you know you [TS]

  don't pay licensing deals to your [TS]

  parents for their names like that's not [TS]

  how families work there's nothing about [TS]

  the family let me let me give you a [TS]

  prickly devil's advocate question then I [TS]

  don't think we use words like family and [TS]

  community if we do I have to do it off [TS]

  because that'd be silly [TS]

  but we do have things like we sell you [TS]

  know flags for example like the front [TS]

  that the halloween flag and like we make [TS]

  a little bit of money from that but at [TS]

  the same time we are saying by the flare [TS]

  get you know fly than alien gear and we [TS]

  make jokey jokes about you know the [TS]

  mighty Nile and gear and show your [TS]

  support [TS]

  hello internet that how is that [TS]

  different how we how are we different [TS]

  when we sell a flag and say you know put [TS]

  the flag on your world and fly a flag [TS]

  for them [TS]

  the mighty Nile and gear Hollywood to [TS]

  that I guess we're having a little bit [TS]

  ironic but yeah I mean we call it [TS]

  nation-building yeah so so you think [TS]

  we're being sufficiently sarcastic about [TS]

  it or silly about that because I what's [TS]

  the difference what's the difference [TS]

  between what's the difference between [TS]

  that you know there's that they're [TS]

  saying they've got a community him you [TS]

  know we have got a bunch of people that [TS]

  you know like joking about this stuff [TS]

  and talking to each other about it and [TS]

  okay so like when you when you think [TS]

  about what a community is right i just [TS]

  think a key part of that is people doing [TS]

  things like independently larger than [TS]

  people doing things related to you and [TS]

  so I I still just think like we have an [TS]

  audience with hello internet like hello [TS]

  Internet is by far and away the thing [TS]

  that comes closest to the possibility of [TS]

  using the word community right but i [TS]

  would still stay far away from it and i [TS]

  don't i don't like that word and I try [TS]

  to avoid it although i'm sure if people [TS]

  go back to the podcast they can find [TS]

  someplace right slipped up [TS]

  I just I just don't like that word and [TS]

  it's not something that I would [TS]

  necessarily use to describe this because [TS]

  again it feels it feels like there's [TS]

  something in there which is trying to [TS]

  put something into the minds of the [TS]

  people in your audience that is almost [TS]

  exploitive because when i think about [TS]

  again like working for school and when [TS]

  they talk about a family these [TS]

  conversations always came up when like [TS]

  administration wants you to do something [TS]

  that you would never do if you were [TS]

  thinking about this as a company right [TS]

  and you are an employee in a company [TS]

  they want you to think about this as a [TS]

  family because in a family like you go [TS]

  way out of your way to help family [TS]

  members in a way that you would not help [TS]

  strangers or color [TS]

  workers you're appropriating the the [TS]

  goodwill and emotional baggage of the [TS]

  word family to try and achieve exactly [TS]

  yeah it's like but you know what in [TS]

  families you don't give people you know [TS]

  trial memberships in families you don't [TS]

  fire people from families like that like [TS]

  you want all of the good parts of the [TS]

  word family and we know to be associated [TS]

  with you but you also still want all of [TS]

  the control of a company right and [TS]

  that's what i don't like about the word [TS]

  community like especially especially [TS]

  when it's combined with asking for money [TS]

  it's like I would never want to say [TS]

  something like by a flag so that you can [TS]

  be part of the hello Internet community [TS]

  yeah just like what happens there is and [TS]

  dont and dont and dont fly a flag that [TS]

  wasn't made by us because then you're [TS]

  not part of the community [TS]

  yeah that's exactly like I'm i'm [TS]

  actually thinking like me because when [TS]

  we talked about the what when the flag [TS]

  thing came up like that was one of the [TS]

  very reasons why i know we we gave over [TS]

  the design like to the public domain [TS]

  right and i think this is the one of the [TS]

  main this is one of the few places i [TS]

  think i may have used the word community [TS]

  because I can genuinely say like the [TS]

  community made this because we had [TS]

  nothing to do with that flag that flag [TS]

  was several iterations of other people [TS]

  and actually they're doing and they're [TS]

  doing what you said they're like 3d [TS]

  printing and doing all sorts of making [TS]

  phone cases out of it and also its side [TS]

  and that's complete nothing to do with [TS]

  us [TS]

  yeah that that's the end but like that [TS]

  is the closest you're gonna come to a [TS]

  community and it is it a moment where [TS]

  like we discussed it ahead of time looks [TS]

  like that we are not going to be the [TS]

  exclusive owners of this flag we didn't [TS]

  make it like it came organically without [TS]

  us [TS]

  and so it makes sense to like throw it [TS]

  back out organically like we can't claim [TS]

  ownership of this thing that's what I [TS]

  mean with is this kind of community [TS]

  thing I guess it's very very tricky but [TS]

  i just think audience is almost always [TS]

  the correct word it doesn't have [TS]

  emotional baggage and it's it's a [TS]

  description of the situation now the the [TS]

  update video the fine brothers made the [TS]

  kind of the the half retraction before [TS]

  the complete retraction happened [TS]

  yea which was not done with the video [TS]

  that was just done quietly with a blog [TS]

  post but this kind of half retraction [TS]

  attempt to to stem the hemorrhaging Lou [TS]

  editorially aside if you just ignore the [TS]

  content and what they were trying to [TS]

  achieve with that that was not for guys [TS]

  who make films for a living [TS]

  that was not well-executed artistically [TS]

  the way that looks in their expressions [TS]

  and the sum of the scripting like I [TS]

  think if they could do that differently [TS]

  a second time they would take that [TS]

  option [TS]

  yeah that that that video was the one [TS]

  where when I watched it I knew [TS]

  immediately i had to make the two videos [TS]

  but I mean nothing there but the choice [TS]

  was taken away from you [TS]

  I honestly felt like I have no choice [TS]

  now I'd like this like the first video [TS]

  annoyed me on these things that are [TS]

  particular annoyance to me and and just [TS]

  like press my buttons but I swear to God [TS]

  when i watch that update video the [TS]

  moment they use the word reboot it was [TS]

  like yeah no I have no choice right i [TS]

  forgot I forgot they usually free but [TS]

  don't know about that almost made me [TS]

  forgive them [TS]

  yeah i was i was watching the thing I [TS]

  like i knew i was already going to make [TS]

  this video but it's like when they said [TS]

  freeboot it's like it's like they handed [TS]

  me a letter of permission to make a [TS]

  video about this and I just had I i [TS]

  really felt like I had no choice and you [TS]

  know and those two videos i made like I [TS]

  have never made anything faster in my [TS]

  whole life like those those two videos [TS]

  they were just you know it was like God [TS]

  was reaching down from heaven and just [TS]

  made everything go right like did it in [TS]

  a take you know it took no editing there [TS]

  was like it just came out perfectly the [TS]

  first time for both videos and it was [TS]

  like well I you know this is divinely [TS]

  ordained right like I'm not even [TS]

  thinking about this like up they go [TS]

  right and then once they're up there [TS]

  it's like God assured each video wanted [TS]

  time to the very top slot of all the [TS]

  reddit for [TS]

  full videos it was like well you know [TS]

  again out of my hands totally out of my [TS]

  hands yeah but that but that update [TS]

  video is one of the most unbelievable [TS]

  things I have ever seen and that was the [TS]

  one where it was like okay man you made [TS]

  this video that was poorly misunderstood [TS]

  that press my buttons in the wrong way [TS]

  and then your update video it seems like [TS]

  it's nothing but you expressing contempt [TS]

  for your audience not understanding your [TS]

  poorly made first video [TS]

  hence and it was that what that was the [TS]

  astounding part of it was it's like me [TS]

  like I thought this first video was was [TS]

  bad but this this does is not even to [TS]

  double-down this is like it like an [TS]

  octuple down on your mistake the first [TS]

  time and then maybe I'll play some audio [TS]

  clips from people here because like you [TS]

  just have to hear it's unbelievable how [TS]

  they sound if you watch it if you watch [TS]

  the video the facial expressions they're [TS]

  making is again like shaking their heads [TS]

  can't believe that their business [TS]

  licensing plan that they sent out to 14 [TS]

  million subscribers who normally watch [TS]

  react videos that wasn't well-received [TS]

  it's it's it's amazing it's amazing and [TS]

  at my personal theory here is i guess i [TS]

  do not know the fine brothers [TS]

  I don't know any of the details behind [TS]

  the scenes of any of this like I'm just [TS]

  even though I'm a youtuber like in many [TS]

  ways I'm just as much on the outside of [TS]

  this is everybody else [TS]

  my guess about this is just that the [TS]

  fine brothers have to have been spending [TS]

  so much time as the heads of this [TS]

  company talking to other media companies [TS]

  and talking to other business people [TS]

  that they just they were just kind of [TS]

  out of touch with how to talk about all [TS]

  of this business stuff to a normal [TS]

  audience like that that this is where [TS]

  they spend all their time with people [TS]

  who are like boy we'd love to licensure [TS]

  intellectual property and so they think [TS]

  everybody would be interested in [TS]

  licensing our intellectual property and [TS]

  that's why they made this video and [TS]

  and that's also why they were surprised [TS]

  that it wasn't well-received because [TS]

  from their perspective everyone they [TS]

  talked to love this idea great this was [TS]

  their phantom menace and then the maid [TS]

  the maid attack of the clones I wish [TS]

  they'd made a third one just to finish [TS]

  it off but it's like that it's like my [TS]

  dad had a great note that become [TS]

  successful that but but didn't know when [TS]

  watch it I mean this is what makes what [TS]

  did someone watch the second video but [TS]

  they must have played two people and [TS]

  said we're thinking of putting this out [TS]

  to improve the situation what do you [TS]

  think [TS]

  and to those people look at it go great [TS]

  that's that's going to sort of guys well [TS]

  done everything that's that you know [TS]

  you're going to put the fire out there [TS]

  well obviously obviously that is poured [TS]

  fuel on the fire but speaking of the [TS]

  prequels as the red letter media review [TS]

  show so well in those prequels there are [TS]

  many scenes where George Lucas is [TS]

  talking to underlings and you can [TS]

  totally see that the underlings have [TS]

  thoughts on their mind that they are not [TS]

  saying right so everyone can agree with [TS]

  George Lucas and this is this is again [TS]

  where I think like this idea of this [TS]

  there's nothing wrong with being a [TS]

  company but but one of the problems with [TS]

  being a company is that it can be [TS]

  difficult for the people at the top to [TS]

  have a sense of how people below them [TS]

  are actually thinking and so I imagine [TS]

  the same thing kind of happened where [TS]

  it's like these guys are in charge of [TS]

  the company they made this video there [TS]

  they're the ones who have the final say [TS]

  whether it goes up or not and they show [TS]

  it to a couple people they're like oh [TS]

  yeah it's great you know like it up it [TS]

  goes right and the whole thing cleared [TS]

  up in flames I should they showed it to [TS]

  some some people whose salary they're [TS]

  paying exactly what do you think of this [TS]

  video that we appear in physically and [TS]

  no one can say well well boss I know you [TS]

  pay my salary but the way you're rolling [TS]

  your eyes there make sure that really [TS]

  dodgy and yes i know i know that you pay [TS]

  my health insurance but you look really [TS]

  poor in there and unconvincing you know [TS]

  that they don't know they may be when [TS]

  you say sorry you shouldn't say it with [TS]

  all of the contempt in the world [TS]

  thank you tone it down like a little [TS]

  because when you saying sorry you're [TS]

  clearly sorry that you have to make this [TS]

  video not sorry for anything that has [TS]

  occurred [TS]

  let me ask you one more thing have many [TS]

  of your other friends and [TS]

  youtube buddies and people that have a [TS]

  city about the fact that you put your in [TS]

  the water here [TS]

  have they said you know good for you [TS]

  gray or they said well man that was [TS]

  crazy or what's what's the general [TS]

  reaction been from other people like me [TS]

  in your life [TS]

  well this is actually you know this [TS]

  actually just goes back to the like the [TS]

  company thing in some ways with like you [TS]

  don't know what people's private [TS]

  thoughts are but when I talk to people [TS]

  the the universal consensus from my [TS]

  perspective seems to be like one the [TS]

  fine brothers thing was a total [TS]

  unmitigated disaster and then to the [TS]

  parody videos were hilarious [TS]

  like that's you know that's that's what [TS]

  I've been hearing from people but you [TS]

  never know what are the complete [TS]

  internal thoughts of other people about [TS]

  whether or not they thought it was a [TS]

  good idea to do this or you know you [TS]

  don't know that like that's not a thing [TS]

  you can necessarily tell because I mean [TS]

  you're you're you're mr. cost-benefit [TS]

  analysis and I don't imagine these [TS]

  videos have been lucky have been like [TS]

  I've been I guess you made some [TS]

  advertising and come from the men got [TS]

  some new subscribers me but they have a [TS]

  big for you like it yeah that mean in [TS]

  terms of of dollars earned per minute [TS]

  spent there actually probably the most [TS]

  profitable videos I've ever made [TS]

  ok ok because i was going to say what I [TS]

  was going to say you and now we've come [TS]

  out the other end what was in it for you [TS]

  or did you just want to play [TS]

  I mean that the part of it was like this [TS]

  was just irresistible [TS]

  I i really do you feeling of like I had [TS]

  no choice right [TS]

  I just honest-to-god felt like I had no [TS]

  choice i saw those videos i immediately [TS]

  record the audio it came out perfect [TS]

  everything was perfect like well i'm [TS]

  uploading them that's why it was so fast [TS]

  from your perspective like you didn't [TS]

  make it down to the kitchen and back [TS]

  before I'll upload the video [TS]

  yeah so it was that that's just the way [TS]

  was and the second thing is like it was [TS]

  everything about it just pushed my [TS]

  button perfectly i wanted to upload [TS]

  these things I thought they were funny I [TS]

  thought that their their commentary was [TS]

  like was on point as far as satire goes [TS]

  so it's like I just I just couldn't not [TS]

  like what you know what is it a great [TS]

  career decision like maybe not but you [TS]

  know i i've learned to be learned to be [TS]

  more reckless from your Brady that's [TS]

  what I've learned [TS]

  so as I literally I felt a bit sorry for [TS]

  them at time you know you know I don't [TS]

  lynch mobs and these guys certainly [TS]

  ledged and they they were they were [TS]

  kicked from all angles and like at times [TS]

  of up you know I thought that must be [TS]

  really hard on them and you know lying [TS]

  in bed at night and because i don't know [TS]

  the human beings and I feel sorry for [TS]

  them but another part of me thinks if [TS]

  this hadn't happened if people hadn't [TS]

  piled on and people just tried to reason [TS]

  with the more to have a rational [TS]

  discussion with them they wouldn't have [TS]

  stopped and this would have come to a [TS]

  head in another way I don't know how I [TS]

  don't know where them yeah more videos [TS]

  will be taken down i don't i don't know [TS]

  if it would have you know the battle [TS]

  would have been won or lost anyway but [TS]

  certainly something good came from this [TS]

  and that is this thing they were trying [TS]

  to do that i don't think they should [TS]

  have been doing it will be allowed to do [TS]

  did stop so it felt like it didn't [TS]

  receive something that i think probably [TS]

  should have been achieved and that is [TS]

  them taking control of a format that I [TS]

  don't think my own but I don't know if [TS]

  there was a better way to do it because [TS]

  I don't I don't I didn't like watching [TS]

  them I didn't like watching what they [TS]

  had to go through i'm not lumping you [TS]

  into that in terms of the really bad [TS]

  stuff but i don't want to sound like I'm [TS]

  picking on ya [TS]

  oh no I don't think I don't think you [TS]

  are at all but this is this is always [TS]

  what happens with the mark right and [TS]

  especially when you have a mob that is [TS]

  in this that I think the size of [TS]

  hundreds of thousands maybe millions [TS]

  gonna get behavior that's not great and [TS]

  that's what this is where like every [TS]

  person always ends up drawing their own [TS]

  line and so like I like the thing i [TS]

  discuss with a few people is the point [TS]

  at which it seemed to me like okay this [TS]

  is this is gone from like a fun mob to [TS]

  like a little scary is when it starts [TS]

  becoming the meta thing where they're [TS]

  all these trackers that were keeping [TS]

  record of how many subscribers they had [TS]

  lost per hour and then it becomes like [TS]

  live feeds that people can watch of how [TS]

  many people are unsubscribing you know / [TS]

  minutes to their Channel and that's [TS]

  that's the part where to me it felt like [TS]

  who this now has suddenly become like a [TS]

  dangerous thing because it's not even [TS]

  about the issue anymore now it's like a [TS]

  mob that just wants to see a number goat [TS]

  down and yeah and then I know they no [TS]

  longer cared about the various I just [TS]

  wanted to watch the execution [TS]

  I don't think an execution in some ways [TS]

  it is too strong of a metaphor there [TS]

  because internet internet mobs like they [TS]

  don't kill people but i think taking [TS]

  away or threatening the way someone [TS]

  makes a living in the modern world like [TS]

  that's pretty close to threatening [TS]

  someone's life like to take away the way [TS]

  they make a living [TS]

  yeah and and then to turn that and into [TS]

  the central focus of it is worth like [TS]

  cool [TS]

  that's because that's the way moms go [TS]

  but that's always the way moms go this [TS]

  episode of Hello internet is brought to [TS]

  you by Squarespace start building your [TS]

  website today at squarespace.com and [TS]

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  other side of the country [TS]

  it's just so easy which is why i use [TS]

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  state-of-the-art technology Squarespace [TS]

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  with a no credit card required trial by [TS]

  going to squarespace.com just start to [TS]

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  you are there's so much on square space [TS]

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  single ad but like if you need a website [TS]

  if you ever want to do anything with it [TS]

  if you just want to have a single [TS]

  portfolio or you want to run a whole [TS]

  online store [TS]

  Squarespace has got you covered [TS]

  seriously try them out [TS]

  squarespace.com offer code hello to get [TS]

  ten percent off and to show your support [TS]

  for this show [TS]

  thank you to squarespace Squarespace you [TS]

  should [TS]

  hello just finishing my skills so great [TS]

  this actually segways somewhat nicely [TS]

  with a book that I happen to have just [TS]

  finished reading and as a book that you [TS]

  previously recommended in one of our [TS]

  audible ads and that is so you've been [TS]

  publicly shamed by jon ronson blue [TS]

  that's rising are sometimes called in [TS]

  mark ronson my head cuz he's a music [TS]

  producer I was worried about getting [TS]

  that wrong i keep calling him Ron [TS]

  Johnson as other people have pointed out [TS]

  i think that very audible at a fatal [TS]

  mistake twice [TS]

  I really heard they're so Jon Ronson not [TS]

  ron johnson is the segway the segway is [TS]

  a perfect segue perhaps talking about [TS]

  mobs and marks on the internet i had not [TS]

  read the book of course i'd heard you [TS]

  talk about it I i went for the dead tree [TS]

  version in this particular case because [TS]

  it's almost it's always nice to have a [TS]

  dead tree version when you're on holiday [TS]

  and the beach and stuff so yeah and good [TS]

  book very very thought-provoking it's [TS]

  been awhile since i read a book that got [TS]

  me that down about the world but in a [TS]

  good way [TS]

  I've been working on that the script for [TS]

  the Q&A video for my channel for the the [TS]

  two million subscriber thing no one of [TS]

  the questions someone asked me was like [TS]

  what was the best book of the last year [TS]

  that I read and I looked over my list [TS]

  and I think i'm going to give my book of [TS]

  the year award to this book this one is [TS]

  a really interesting book [TS]

  and it's also a book that i can almost [TS]

  universally recommend like where some of [TS]

  the other books that I happen to really [TS]

  like that i read this year I need to [TS]

  know something about the person she's [TS]

  like I'm not going to recommend super [TS]

  intelligence to everybody as a book [TS]

  that's like you a lot of crazy stuff [TS]

  that AI like I need to know some things [TS]

  about you but this book it falls into [TS]

  the interesting category of like okay if [TS]

  you make your living on the internet [TS]

  this is required reading right [TS]

  absolutely required reading but also [TS]

  just for anybody who participates in [TS]

  social media on the internet i also [TS]

  think this is required reading and so [TS]

  now we're talking about like ninety [TS]

  percent of the internet connected human [TS]

  population so I like I I i think it's a [TS]

  very interesting very well-written book [TS]

  i don't agree with everything in it as [TS]

  always with these kind of things but but [TS]

  man it's it's one that has really stuck [TS]

  with me since I read it like a year ago [TS]

  so for people who don't know what the [TS]

  books about basically in a nutshell he's [TS]

  talking about he's talking about the way [TS]

  that Twitter can be used to sort of turn [TS]

  on someone when they do things wrong or [TS]

  they that are perceived to have done [TS]

  things wrong and sort of a Twitter mob [TS]

  is usually it's very Twitter centric [TS]

  this book which is perhaps one of my [TS]

  criticisms over but he talks about how a [TS]

  Twitter mob will turn on someone and [TS]

  basically destroy their life and had [TS]

  basically ship shame them and then he [TS]

  goes off on a few changes its very well [TS]

  written book and it's very chatty and he [TS]

  goes on bit of a journey as he explores [TS]

  this whole issue of public shaming and [TS]

  it goes and makes different people [TS]

  he made some victims he made some semi [TS]

  perpetrators he meets other people who [TS]

  have interesting views on shame and [TS]

  public shame [TS]

  yeah so that's that's what the books [TS]

  about about what it's like for people [TS]

  who have the internet turn on them like [TS]

  the four hundred others just experienced [TS]

  that the prime example of the mean girl [TS]

  that he's using it's justine was the [TS]

  last Asako I think and is that's right [TS]

  gasps she's 16 Sacco and her her story [TS]

  was making it a tweet where she joked [TS]

  about she's going to Africa and that she [TS]

  doesn't have to worry about getting aids [TS]

  because she's white like you know [TS]

  not the best joke in the world kind of [TS]

  what actually I can't believe that [TS]

  people didn't realize that was a joke [TS]

  like that that is a testament to [TS]

  people's inability to and well socket i [TS]

  was able to get i get to that in a [TS]

  second i had a particular theory about [TS]

  this right okay but but she made this [TS]

  this joke and she know she didn't have [TS]

  very many Twitter followers [TS]

  she's sort of like just a regular [TS]

  citizen on the internet you know she's [TS]

  just a normal person using Twitter but [TS]

  so she's on her way to South Africa she [TS]

  gets on a plane and while she's on the [TS]

  flight this thing explodes into people [TS]

  you know saying like a week we have to [TS]

  get this racist fired from her job right [TS]

  anyone who's seen these these internet [TS]

  mobs like you know this thing like it [TS]

  explodes into a bigger thing and just [TS]

  like the fine brothers were perfect [TS]

  storm [TS]

  the reason it happened to Justine like [TS]

  this perfect storm for her was like yes [TS]

  one her job was in PR right so that [TS]

  makes the story way more delicious too [TS]

  there was this element of boy isn't she [TS]

  going to be surprised when the plane [TS]

  lands like there were reporters going on [TS]

  you know to to be at the airport so [TS]

  there was like a countdown clock for [TS]

  excitement there was suspense in a [TS]

  narrative and and then the other thing [TS]

  which which is more like my personal [TS]

  theory on why this stuff happens is that [TS]

  I think people were able to willingly [TS]

  misinterpret her tweet because she's a [TS]

  case of we're like beating down on her [TS]

  allows people to signal to all of their [TS]

  friends how they don't like racism it [TS]

  like the beat down on her is is twice as [TS]

  strong because people feel like I get to [TS]

  tell everybody how great I am because [TS]

  boy don't I hate racists think you [TS]

  really think that joke is like some [TS]

  super racist joke or like is it is just [TS]

  a bad joke or just sarcasm but I think [TS]

  like this is the this is the combination [TS]

  of things that turns it into a gigantic [TS]

  storms like this perfect stuff and so [TS]

  her life is just [TS]

  ruined from this like she loses her job [TS]

  and has just been like harassed by it [TS]

  and I can and not understandably size [TS]

  large mob like I cannot imagine how [TS]

  traumatic this must be again just for [TS]

  like a regular citizen living their [TS]

  regular lives not someone who makes a [TS]

  public living on the internet like I [TS]

  can't imagine what it would be like to [TS]

  be at the at the center of this kind of [TS]

  thing that one does drive me crazy [TS]

  because that way the way I interpret [TS]

  that tweet it actually was kind of it [TS]

  was kind of making a racial commentary [TS]

  anyway like it was making a sort of a [TS]

  positive ratio commentary about sort of [TS]

  the disproportionate number of people [TS]

  getting aids and what she was doing in [TS]

  this kind of reverse she was doing it [TS]

  the way i could a comedian would do it [TS]

  like a comedian would do that on a stage [TS]

  and everyone would get it and actually [TS]

  think it's a it's actually an [TS]

  interesting commentary on the state of [TS]

  the world and she did and people just [TS]

  thought that she was some kind of moron [TS]

  who didn't understand how aids worked or [TS]

  something but Johnson does make that [TS]

  same point and he goes like the history [TS]

  of comedy which I do this and other [TS]

  things I think he / cells that a little [TS]

  bit because because my perspective on it [TS]

  is it doesn't even really matter if it [TS]

  was intended as some kind of commentary [TS]

  like that like the amount of incredible [TS]

  pushback she got was disproportionate to [TS]

  his thing right even if it you know like [TS]

  the this version of the best version of [TS]

  her like she's sitting there [TS]

  intentionally crafting like a commentary [TS]

  on the situation of AIDS in Africa right [TS]

  like or she just made a thoughtless joke [TS]

  like but even if she just made a [TS]

  thoughtless joke that the what happened [TS]

  is just wildly just before here [TS]

  yeah so i can I came out of this book [TS]

  again wishing i didn't I wasn't on [TS]

  Twitter and thinking and thinking and [TS]

  thinking that social media and you know [TS]

  I still don't think it's as I still [TS]

  think it's not as bad as i read it i [TS]

  still think I still think that it's the [TS]

  worst place but we got to talk about [TS]

  that sometime yeah but it's it made me [TS]

  think of it made me think too it was [TS]

  poison as well but it's really scary [TS]

  isn't it it's like it's like any book or [TS]

  film you see where something really bad [TS]

  happens to someone and you think gosh [TS]

  you know [TS]

  that could that could happen to me and [TS]

  you mentioned maybe a week ago that you [TS]

  were reading this and that it would [TS]

  might be an interesting things to talk [TS]

  about on the podcast and of course it [TS]

  ties in very well with the whole farm [TS]

  fine brothers thing where i was just [TS]

  recently part of a gigantic internet mob [TS]

  never thinking a lot about this because [TS]

  i canno over maybe the last year I've [TS]

  just been I've just become fascinated [TS]

  with the way like arguments happen on [TS]

  the internet and the way people talk [TS]

  about things and advertising the Guns [TS]

  Germs and Steel will get to add another [TS]

  another point like I'm just kind of [TS]

  fascinated more and more by the way in [TS]

  the internet like affects people's [TS]

  behavior but I was trying to think about [TS]

  like why do some mob seemed ok to me and [TS]

  other mobs don't like the Justine thing [TS]

  mob seems really bad to me but then when [TS]

  you get like mobs against the company [TS]

  trying to change the company's behaviors [TS]

  like what that seems fine to me thinking [TS]

  about it and in my notes I came up with [TS]

  kind of three axes that make it more or [TS]

  less ok [TS]

  from my perspective I think one of those [TS]

  is like individuals versus corporations [TS]

  mhm so like the more the dial is turned [TS]

  towards is this mob against one [TS]

  individual acting alone like that seems [TS]

  worse than a mob acting against like [TS]

  some gigantic trans-continental company [TS]

  the other axes that was thinking about [TS]

  is like public versus private people and [TS]

  this again is where like he has a few [TS]

  examples in the book but again i'm just [TS]

  like regular internet citizens that gets [TS]

  swept up into a thing that is way beyond [TS]

  them because they are are the spark that [TS]

  kicks off a fire but their normal life [TS]

  is that they're just normal people so [TS]

  not public figures [TS]

  yeah and the closer you are on the end [TS]

  of being a public figure the more ok it [TS]

  is or like the less of a problem i would [TS]

  have with the mob depending on the [TS]

  circumstances it doesn't mean that it's [TS]

  totally okay to just like beatdown all [TS]

  public figures but I'm trying like when [TS]

  do I get mad about [TS]

  witch hunts on the internet and when am [TS]

  i less likely to get mad like the more [TS]

  famous a person is the more you can have [TS]

  angry mob seem normal and at the most [TS]

  extreme end of this you can you get all [TS]

  the way up to something like politics [TS]

  right the most public of all public [TS]

  people are politicians and they just [TS]

  seem to have constant standing armies of [TS]

  angry mobs that hate everything they do [TS]

  right and it just seems like oh but [TS]

  that's just part of politics and then [TS]

  the last one on my three axes here is [TS]

  like context versus lack of context and [TS]

  this is my big big problem with the [TS]

  internet is when people take like a [TS]

  single piece of information and decide [TS]

  everything about a person based on that [TS]

  so like one poorly worded tweet is [TS]

  reason enough for people to decide you [TS]

  are a total racist or you are a total [TS]

  sexist and then once they decide that's [TS]

  what you are now it's okay to hound you [TS]

  until the ends of the earth yeah because [TS]

  i have defined you as a bad person [TS]

  yeah if there's one thing that the [TS]

  Internet has convinced me more and more [TS]

  of its that there is a large segment of [TS]

  the population that is either incapable [TS]

  or uninterested in understanding people [TS]

  as anything other than absolutes and [TS]

  that to me is the most dangerous kind of [TS]

  mob like you take one sentence and then [TS]

  people just decide that person is evil [TS]

  which totally justifies their behavior [TS]

  and that links back into the thing that [TS]

  I said before where people w enjoy a [TS]

  beat down because they feel like they [TS]

  are crushing badness beneath their boot [TS]

  while also waving a flag to all of their [TS]

  friends showing how virtuous they are [TS]

  and that to me is like the most [TS]

  dangerous aspect of of what makes mobs [TS]

  more or less frightening it sounds that [TS]

  last thing you said that great that so [TS]

  much like two points because what I can [TS]

  a completely agree that context is [TS]

  it's really important you know if they [TS]

  going back through this just a woman's [TS]

  twitter feed and they've been a pattern [TS]

  of comments that were not erase this [TS]

  basically huh [TS]

  that would that would be different 2 12 [TS]

  way and that's really important really [TS]

  important point to make but I feel like [TS]

  this is a whole separate point the [TS]

  empowering nature of social media it is [TS]

  almost giving people too much power it's [TS]

  becoming like a drug a drug for them [TS]

  they're not they're not just not just [TS]

  attacking the racist person because [TS]

  racism is wrong [TS]

  they're doing it to like to show off to [TS]

  their friends so it has this as this [TS]

  double double effect i think that's [TS]

  separate from the the context issue [TS]

  yeah I think you're right maybe that [TS]

  doesn't add that doesn't exist on the [TS]

  spectrum but that's like a it's like an [TS]

  accelerant to every other yeah yeah it's [TS]

  it's a we're giving a powerful weapon to [TS]

  people and it's got the the extra [TS]

  problem that makes people feel really [TS]

  good to use it [TS]

  this is slightly tangential but boy do I [TS]

  hate the fads that Passover facebook and [TS]

  twitter where people are supposed to be [TS]

  changing their icon to support whatever [TS]

  and that to me is like the purest [TS]

  version of this kind of thing people [TS]

  change their twitter icon to support [TS]

  issue X or you know or to support issue [TS]

  why and really like what if they done [TS]

  they have done literally nothing the [TS]

  actual thing that is occurring here is [TS]

  that they are just wanting to signal to [TS]

  their friends like oh look how virtuous [TS]

  I am because I care about this thing [TS]

  that would someone tweets are my [TS]

  thoughts are going out to the people [TS]

  who've lost their homes in that fire [TS]

  someone replies to find your thoughts [TS]

  could rebuild all the houses [TS]

  yeah that's exactly the thing it's like [TS]

  you want to get all of the credit for [TS]

  being a good person but you're actually [TS]

  doing nothing like that that like that [TS]

  is the the purest version of this kind [TS]

  of of thing and you know again just a [TS]

  few of his examples in the books i think [TS]

  the ones that I find most calling all [TS]

  had that element of it where this person [TS]

  is being beaten down in no small part [TS]

  because then the crowd is able to show [TS]

  how virtuous it is like I forget the [TS]

  other girl who had that like dumb [TS]

  picture of her in front of the like that [TS]

  the soldiers like a salary at the [TS]

  stretch right here [TS]

  yes you taking a picture of herself in [TS]

  front of the the sign at Arlington which [TS]

  was asking for like quiet and respect [TS]

  and it was a a picture of her pretending [TS]

  to yell and flipping the finger is it's [TS]

  a stupid picture but that has the [TS]

  additional problem of like now everybody [TS]

  who's on the side of like let me show [TS]

  how virtuous I am and how much I love [TS]

  America [TS]

  yeah right gets to feel awesome by [TS]

  beating down on this girl because of [TS]

  this one picture and to put that in [TS]

  context her and her friend had like a [TS]

  running joke of them in front of signs [TS]

  directly disobeying aside so smoking in [TS]

  front of a no-smoking sign or running in [TS]

  front of a no running side so it was [TS]

  just the fact that the side and said be [TS]

  quiet and respectful so they thought [TS]

  let's pretend we're being loud and [TS]

  disrespectful and reflect it was at [TS]

  arlington cemetery was irrelevant to the [TS]

  joke right then everyone thinks this is [TS]

  a chance to show that they have much [TS]

  more they respect you know the war [TS]

  fallen so the mob u-joint you don't [TS]

  normally join these mobs obviously have [TS]

  you recently joined I'm just figuring [TS]

  out where the fire brothers are on the [TS]

  spectrum there they are sort of a [TS]

  company and as far as the individual [TS]

  people they're quite public context wise [TS]

  my feeling on the context was when i [TS]

  came to this story [TS]

  I saw both videos so i do not exist in [TS]

  this time period where there was only [TS]

  one [TS]

  yeah and so that to me was like I got to [TS]

  see your thing and then I got to see [TS]

  your clarification of this thing [TS]

  yeah i think i have all of the context [TS]

  did you do this [TS]

  so all three axes they were they were [TS]

  ready for a within you reckon [TS]

  yeah and and and also the like the [TS]

  virtuous thing i just want to point out [TS]

  again as extra funny because it's like [TS]

  that very morning I hadn't forced my own [TS]

  trademark against somebody else so [TS]

  there's no there's no version of this [TS]

  where i feel like i am defending people [TS]

  against trademarks it's like I have a [TS]

  trademark i just used a trademark like [TS]

  that's that's a that's not what I'm [TS]

  feeling like we're going to defend the [TS]

  everybody against trademarks so yeah [TS]

  that's kind of why I like i think it's [TS]

  it's okay and it's also why you know [TS]

  again I think people have the right to [TS]

  do it but like I didn't want to do a [TS]

  video that was insulting them as [TS]

  individuals like and there was [TS]

  no shortage of that right like they were [TS]

  there was no shortage of videos going [TS]

  after them personally know this is like [TS]

  that the tricky thing with with like [TS]

  these public mobs it also kind of runs [TS]

  up into issues about like what can [TS]

  people say on the internet like how much [TS]

  do you want to limit people's actions [TS]

  and it's just I think that this book is [TS]

  a really interesting book because it's [TS]

  it shows a certain side of Internet [TS]

  behavior but it's also just connected to [TS]

  a lot of other things about how people [TS]

  interact with each other and the nature [TS]

  of public and private space and the [TS]

  nature of shame in the modern world like [TS]

  it's I think it's a really interesting [TS]

  book that I think everybody should [TS]

  should read yeah awesome didn't really [TS]

  go there in some of those issues they [TS]

  did he in terms of anonymity of the [TS]

  commenters and I you know you know my [TS]

  Bible and what you can't say all the all [TS]

  the criminalists of some of it as well [TS]

  like he didn't he didn't go there he [TS]

  sort of he talked about you know is [TS]

  wrong or right that people are doing [TS]

  this [TS]

  yeah but he didn't go into some of those [TS]

  sighs finer details which may be [TS]

  important they are definitely important [TS]

  but I think when you're reading the book [TS]

  you can't help but think of those things [TS]

  even if he's not talking about them [TS]

  explicitly and you know what [TS]

  when I think about this I was like what [TS]

  would you do if you were in charge of [TS]

  society to change this and I think [TS]

  there's like this is a incredibly [TS]

  different or difficult question to [TS]

  answer because it's like okay when I [TS]

  think about the kind of mobs that I [TS]

  don't like that seems scary that seem [TS]

  legitimate and then you try to separate [TS]

  them from the particulars of any [TS]

  situation it's very hard to know if [TS]

  there is even anything that can be done [TS]

  about this or I mean in some ways if [TS]

  there even is anything that should be [TS]

  done about this because like I can't [TS]

  think of any kind of systemic solution [TS]

  the Dozen also then rub up against other [TS]

  things that I also value liking people's [TS]

  ability to express themselves on the [TS]

  internet even if it is in ways that [TS]

  other people feel isn't nice like I [TS]

  think that's an important thing to have [TS]

  and so like that's why I feel like this [TS]

  book puts me in an inch [TS]

  listing the pensive mood about like is [TS]

  there's a lot here that I don't like but [TS]

  I'm also not sure that there can be any [TS]

  solution that isn't ultimately worse [TS]

  than the thing that is trying to fix I [TS]

  haven't thought about this as much as [TS]

  you so whenever I talk about it I feel [TS]

  like you run rings around me sort of [TS]

  debating wise but i do think the [TS]

  internet is changing so much for the [TS]

  world is changing so much with the way [TS]

  the internet is integrated into it that [TS]

  I think things should be changed because [TS]

  i know you're I know you're all about [TS]

  the free speech and people expressing [TS]

  himself and I know how empowering the [TS]

  internet has been in that way for [TS]

  goodness sake I mean I've been able to [TS]

  start a whole new career expressing [TS]

  myself on the internet and having my own [TS]

  business and making my own films that [TS]

  would never have happened without the [TS]

  internet you know i'd still be working [TS]

  at a newspaper or something if I hadn't [TS]

  paid for the internet so I'm very [TS]

  grateful for but the but we as we leave [TS]

  more and more of our life on the [TS]

  internet I think maybe we need to think [TS]

  about whether or not we need to protect [TS]

  people more because if it was allowed if [TS]

  it was legal for when you were walking [TS]

  down the street for a hundred people to [TS]

  come up and start screaming in your face [TS]

  or saying racist things or doing that [TS]

  but there is a law to stop that there's [TS]

  a law to stop people being harassed [TS]

  but on the internet we say well this is [TS]

  great because normally these people [TS]

  would never get to express how they felt [TS]

  that never get to tell Tom Cruise that [TS]

  they think he's a [TS]

  they think he's a [TS]

  media or that never get to tell these [TS]

  famous people this or that never get to [TS]

  go to tell strangers what they think [TS]

  they'd never get to speak their mind and [TS]

  now they're getting a voice well that's [TS]

  that's nice but as as we move more into [TS]

  the internet i think the modern [TS]

  equivalent of walking down the street is [TS]

  becoming spending a bit of time on [TS]

  Twitter or Facebook and if that is the [TS]

  new walking down the straight i think we [TS]

  should be afforded of some of the [TS]

  protection that someone walking down the [TS]

  street has and at the moment we don't [TS]

  have that now the moment at the moment [TS]

  you can get away with things on the [TS]

  internet you would never get away with [TS]

  face-to-face in real life with people [TS]

  and that's fine but our lives are moving [TS]

  onto the internet lesson we're spending [TS]

  less time walking down the street and [TS]

  now we're walking down the cyber [TS]

  straight and we're having a hundred [TS]

  people screaming their face and [TS]

  assaulting us and it was like what's [TS]

  different causes the internet man [TS]

  well it's because i think it's becoming [TS]

  less different and maybe something needs [TS]

  to reflect that whenever you're having a [TS]

  disagreement with someone it's always [TS]

  good to try to find like what is the [TS]

  fundamental point of disagreement which [TS]

  which is not always an easy thing to do [TS]

  and I think what you have expressed is [TS]

  is the fundamental point of disagreement [TS]

  between us on this topic which is the [TS]

  thing that we've sort of talked about in [TS]

  the podcast before and then not we've [TS]

  had like vigorous conversation that was [TS]

  totally cut we've talked about this [TS]

  before my view on it is that there is a [TS]

  difference with stuff that is online [TS]

  versus the real world and and I think [TS]

  that is the fundamental difference and I [TS]

  like I'm not saying that getting [TS]

  harassed on the internet isn't upsetting [TS]

  but there is no doubt that behavior that [TS]

  you would never accept in the physical [TS]

  world is is accepted on the internet i [TS]

  would find like cat got to like these is [TS]

  a huge arguments about guns germs and [TS]

  steel and like people have been calling [TS]

  me it's like hundreds of comments and [TS]

  like this stuff is all over the bad [TS]

  history section of Reddit and my feeling [TS]

  with that is like awesome i totally love [TS]

  this kind of debating on the internet i [TS]

  think people should be able to call me [TS]

  an idiot and say that like I'm dumb and [TS]

  I do [TS]

  know what I'm talking about and then I [TS]

  can argue with them if I want to I can [TS]

  leave it alone i have a feeling about [TS]

  that kind of thing that's like I am [TS]

  happy that this can exist even when [TS]

  people disagree with me in a very [TS]

  vigorous sometimes super unfriendly way [TS]

  I am happy in that world in a way that [TS]

  like I totally agree with you if I was [TS]

  walking down the street and hundreds of [TS]

  people were yelling at me that i am a [TS]

  moron that would not be so welcomed that [TS]

  would feel incredibly threatening yeah [TS]

  in a way that it just doesn't on the [TS]

  internet at least not to me [TS]

  I'm not so naive that I don't see some [TS]

  differences but telling me that the [TS]

  internet is different to the real world [TS]

  is absolutely fine up until the point [TS]

  that Justin second flies back to New [TS]

  York and gets fired from her job because [TS]

  a mob turn her on the internet like [TS]

  that's not on the internet anymore man [TS]

  she's not getting paid [TS]

  she now she's not allowed to walk into [TS]

  her office now that's not just on the [TS]

  internet anymore man [TS]

  that's why I like I find this book is [TS]

  really sticking with me because it's I [TS]

  don't know how we can legalize the [TS]

  distinction because that we are both in [TS]

  agreement and he even said before like [TS]

  when you take someone's job away that is [TS]

  that is the modern equivalent of [TS]

  threatening their life you were you are [TS]

  taking away their ability to live in a [TS]

  world that requires them to work and [TS]

  when you have done it in this way so [TS]

  that their name is forever associated [TS]

  with the thing that like nobody wants to [TS]

  touch Justine Sacco because she's [TS]

  radioactive not because of the thing [TS]

  that she said but because of the [TS]

  controversy around her you know it's [TS]

  like an execution and so I i totally be [TS]

  like that is awful that shouldn't happen [TS]

  but I like I don't know like how how do [TS]

  you systematize the difference between [TS]

  these things like I i have a very hard [TS]

  time thinking about like what is the [TS]

  solution to this problem because i will [TS]

  i am with you on this like that is too [TS]

  far that is too much that is without a [TS]

  doubt awful but I just don't know what [TS]

  the answer is and I think I like I think [TS]

  about this a lot when you made your [TS]

  video poking fun at [TS]

  brothers and then like a day or two [TS]

  later you saw their subscriber count was [TS]

  dropping which means their revenue is [TS]

  dropping [TS]

  admittedly it's still in the millions i [TS]

  don't think they're gonna be on the [TS]

  breadline [TS]

  but when you swim resource when you saw [TS]

  that in some tiny tiny way that the the [TS]

  bottom line of that business that [TS]

  employs people is being affected and you [TS]

  were you know but yea minor contributor [TS]

  to the mob i'm not saying it was all you [TS]

  far from it but you played a row did you [TS]

  think [TS]

  yeah maybe maybe I should maybe I [TS]

  shouldn't or do you think [TS]

  fair enough you know you do the crime [TS]

  you do the time well those those are two [TS]

  different things a question about maybe [TS]

  I shouldn't have versus do they deserve [TS]

  this [TS]

  who would make those videos again doing [TS]

  what I was doing like I would make them [TS]

  again like I think it's totally fine to [TS]

  criticize public companies for doing [TS]

  dumb things and also again [TS]

  the company is not taking away like an [TS]

  individuals living in the same way the [TS]

  fine brothers things even though i don't [TS]

  like the let's focus on people [TS]

  unsubscribing like that starts to make [TS]

  me feel uncomfortable [TS]

  I think you can make it pretty good [TS]

  argument that is not that different from [TS]

  a boycott I don't have any problem with [TS]

  people boycotting companies whose [TS]

  policies they don't agree with this just [TS]

  happens to be like a super internet e [TS]

  super public way of making this very [TS]

  clear but there's no way I would be like [TS]

  oh man if there's some company that you [TS]

  don't like and you want to boycott them [TS]

  i would never try to argue like but [TS]

  you're taking away that companies living [TS]

  man like people work for that company [TS]

  that's not how this works [TS]

  it's so different when you get down to [TS]

  the scale of like a single person [TS]

  especially a single person who doesn't [TS]

  live in this public way I hope you don't [TS]

  make a video kicking me that gosh [TS]

  after that incisive or you seek the cali [TS]

  voice to it i was divinely inspired at [TS]

  the moment I don't think i can i can [TS]

  reproduce it [TS]