Hello Internet

H.I. #62: Cheer Pressure


  I did go out onto the scaffolding [TS]

  outside the house I fucked up the [TS]

  courage i made it i went out i looked at [TS]

  me I looked at my roof I took the nail [TS]

  and gear flag and i flattered in the [TS]

  wind of the house so inspired by grays [TS]

  Batman efforts are basically i just [TS]

  didn't want him to be the only Batman [TS]

  right so I did it I did it [TS]

  it's another very cool picture of you [TS]

  Brady I feel like that one too is [TS]

  calling out for some photoshopping just [TS]

  like you are looking cool explosion [TS]

  photograph you know you've got the the [TS]

  wind blowing the mighty nail and gear [TS]

  flagler kids they know that that's [TS]

  calling out for a little modification I [TS]

  think gray I'm I'm open to that are I'm [TS]

  even willing to make some suggestions [TS]

  there's a this event is about you don't [TS]

  you don't tell the internet what to do [TS]

  really [TS]

  crap can I suggest perhaps Tenzing a [TS]

  Topman Everest could be used as a is [TS]

  inspiration hillary and tenzing together [TS]

  on this on the summit's guy in the [TS]

  southeast face there but you're right it [TS]

  i mean i think the pictures magnificent [TS]

  enough on a sign that it doesn't need [TS]

  photoshopping but if yes it looks [TS]

  absolutely magnificent you on the [TS]

  scaffolding leading up to your house for [TS]

  that for that for those who have asked i [TS]

  went for the she me at the window option [TS]

  rather than they going up the ladders [TS]

  option [TS]

  I just didn't trust those letters yeah [TS]

  this is a popular request lot of people [TS]

  dying to know which way through which [TS]

  people about you know what [TS]

  yes a lot of people of us did you do did [TS]

  you do the ladder or did you go out the [TS]

  window and so for those who ever that [TS]

  you're asking i went for the wind eh i'm [TS]

  very proud of you [TS]

  we've got and we've got to tie up the [TS]

  loose ends oh yeah is that it happens [TS]

  that we do on the show we tie up the [TS]

  loose ends yeah i like to think it's [TS]

  like a whole complete thing i would like [TS]

  to think when the last ever episode of [TS]

  Hello internet is recorded [TS]

  uh-huh it was somehow close some loop [TS]

  that started like with the first episode [TS]

  of people will go to you what I think [TS]

  they planned the whole thing [TS]

  yeah i think the whole thing was [TS]

  scripted it was like it was like a [TS]

  genius [TS]

  Agatha Christie sort of thing where [TS]

  every single sentence in every single [TS]

  episode was [TS]

  now working towards some moment at the [TS]

  end i went to my regular gym this [TS]

  morning and walking up to the front desk [TS]

  i'm getting ready to go in and there's a [TS]

  big pile of towels that you're supposed [TS]

  to take from as you go into the gym but [TS]

  the new thing this morning was a [TS]

  gigantic sign and by gigantic I mean as [TS]

  tall as me [TS]

  they erected a huge sign which said [TS]

  please think about the environment and [TS]

  only take one towel into the gym and [TS]

  this kind of thing infuriates me [TS]

  it absolutely infuriates me and at my [TS]

  gym it infuriates me many multiple times [TS]

  over so i took for towels into the gym [TS]

  today I did not take one towel into the [TS]

  gym and 2 y.o skins and I club his seal [TS]

  on the way I feel like I don't even need [TS]

  to explain why this is infuriating let [TS]

  me just run through why in the gym I [TS]

  find this particularly frustrating [TS]

  there's another sign later in the gym [TS]

  which is in the actual equipment like [TS]

  when you're when you're doing your [TS]

  workout they have these little signs up [TS]

  all over the place which say please be [TS]

  considerate to the other patrons and [TS]

  make sure to wipe down the equipment [TS]

  after you've used it totally reasonable [TS]

  right this is a totally reasonable [TS]

  civilization like request [TS]

  you've been a sweaty gross person on a [TS]

  piece of equipment you're going to wipe [TS]

  down your gross sweat off of it right [TS]

  reasonable yes of course yeah okay [TS]

  except that the question is wipe it down [TS]

  with what [TS]

  because in the gym there are no little [TS]

  hand wipes for you to use [TS]

  there's no equipment there at all so [TS]

  unless you're going to wipe it down with [TS]

  your hand [TS]

  the only thing the only conceivable [TS]

  thing that you could use to wipe down [TS]

  the equipment is the one towel that they [TS]

  want you to bring into the gym but [TS]

  nobody's going to use the same towel to [TS]

  clean the gym equipment as to clean [TS]

  themselves later in the shower i think [TS]

  that is just [TS]

  vastly vastly on her fair enough yeah I [TS]

  mean yeah yeah okay yeah right yeah it's [TS]

  completely unreasonable because I'm glad [TS]

  you're on board with me breathing i [TS]

  really appreciate it I'm not sure that's [TS]

  what they made by the one tower thing [TS]

  that surely surely you can get a [TS]

  different time when you go through a [TS]

  shower afterwards [TS]

  here's the thing here's the thing with [TS]

  the setup of this with with the the [TS]

  fascist like setup that this gym has has [TS]

  has arranged right [TS]

  the setup is such that you can only pick [TS]

  up the towels before you go in with this [TS]

  little membership card that they give [TS]

  you [TS]

  so the towels are not accessible when [TS]

  you are inside the gym so they have this [TS]

  big sign saying please take only one [TS]

  towel and then you have to pass through [TS]

  a barrier through which you cannot [TS]

  return to get another towel later like [TS]

  they clearly just want you to take one [TS]

  so this is why i don't i don't just take [TS]

  1 i'm going to take well we'll just [TS]

  start out with I'm gonna take to write [TS]

  because i'm going to need one to clean [TS]

  down the equipment and a separate one to [TS]

  clean down myself in the shower now i [TS]

  also have it to take a third towel [TS]

  because i think it's quite reasonable to [TS]

  do the same thing in a sauna right like [TS]

  you're you're laying down in a sauna as [TS]

  a gigantic sweaty piece of meat you are [TS]

  sweating everywhere it's nicer for [TS]

  everybody again this is how civilization [TS]

  holds together if you put down a towel [TS]

  in the sauna and you sweat out your [TS]

  gross bodily fluids onto the towel [TS]

  instead of onto the wood so this is why [TS]

  I would normally take three towels into [TS]

  the gym one for the sign up one for [TS]

  cleaning the equipment and one for [TS]

  cleaning me I think this is totally [TS]

  reasonable I think three is too many [TS]

  great i think you could get away with to [TS]

  i could get away with 2 i'm not arguing [TS]

  that I could get away with too if I was [TS]

  willing to introduce and unacceptable [TS]

  level of gross into my life like oh I've [TS]

  used this towel to clean down all of the [TS]

  equipment and i'm also going to use it [TS]

  to clean down the sauna like now that's [TS]

  not it's not going to happen because the [TS]

  the cleaning down in the gym towel that [TS]

  one never really touches my skin right [TS]

  because I'm wearing gym clothes when I'm [TS]

  in the gym was in the sauna that towel [TS]

  is also touching my skin so I don't want [TS]

  to use the same towel i think that's [TS]

  quite reasonable [TS]

  I've never been to a gym where they [TS]

  haven't got that rolls of blue roll [TS]

  everywhere that blue paper that you [TS]

  could just use to wipe down the [TS]

  equipment or your forward and things [TS]

  like that they not have paper towel [TS]

  I know I know this one does not mean [TS]

  that in the main area they have drinking [TS]

  fountains and that's it and I see people [TS]

  using their one sad towel to clean the [TS]

  equipment or to do that thing like you [TS]

  reserve a piece of equipment by draping [TS]

  the towel across that they're using that [TS]

  same towel that they then take back into [TS]

  the showers and like they're all being [TS]

  all follow the sign right but i'm not [TS]

  going to follow the sign so normally i [TS]

  would take three towels but today [TS]

  because this new sign was there about [TS]

  like think of the environment as well I [TS]

  took for towels because one of them was [TS]

  just out of pure inventions and passive [TS]

  aggressiveness I thought if you're going [TS]

  to tell me you're going to tell me how [TS]

  many towels I'm supposed to take because [TS]

  of mother earth like no no I'm gonna [TS]

  take more towels because i don't think [TS]

  that sign is there because this gym [TS]

  company suddenly really cares about [TS]

  mother earth now I think they're just [TS]

  trying to come up with a better way to [TS]

  make people use fewer towels and their [TS]

  normal sign that you just said oh please [TS]

  take one towel they didn't think was [TS]

  effective enough so they've decided to [TS]

  introduce this kind of environmental [TS]

  nagging asst into the system to try to [TS]

  be more effective about reducing towel [TS]

  usage and I feel like screw you [TS]

  if you're going to do that if you're [TS]

  going to be passive-aggressive towards [TS]

  me in that way i'm going to be [TS]

  passive-aggressive towards you i'm [TS]

  taking an extra towel today it's so [TS]

  clear to me that the company's primary [TS]

  concern is the amount of money that they [TS]

  are spending on towel laundry right it [TS]

  is it has nothing to do with the actual [TS]

  environment itself like that's clearly [TS]

  what's going on and that's the thing [TS]

  that really bothers me about these kind [TS]

  of situations that you see like you know [TS]

  like you got to California and you're in [TS]

  a hotel somewhere and they have little [TS]

  sign they're like oh there's a drought [TS]

  in California please don't take a very [TS]

  long shower please don't wash your hands [TS]

  super thoroughly and like now I'm not [TS]

  gonna listen to you little sign like I [TS]

  don't think the environment is really [TS]

  your primary concern here like I think [TS]

  your primary concern is the water bill [TS]

  at your hotel [TS]

  I only ever see these kind of [TS]

  environmental signs in places where [TS]

  people are using a company's resource [TS]

  that is extraordinarily difficult for [TS]

  the company to police its usage like and [TS]

  then suddenly they're very concerned [TS]

  about the environment and wanted you to [TS]

  use as little of the resources possible [TS]

  right now please only take one napkin [TS]

  think about dear precious mother like [TS]

  now I don't think that's the reason here [TS]

  and i'm going to take extra napkins just [TS]

  because you told me not to but it is [TS]

  like a sort of a 10 gentle benefit that [TS]

  the earth does [TS]

  come out on top if we do use less water [TS]

  and waterless tails so it's almost like [TS]

  you're cutting off the earth nose to [TS]

  spite the companies face [TS]

  I mean I mean you say that you say that [TS]

  right but how how much water can [TS]

  possibly you abused by the global [TS]

  consumption of cleaning towels i think i [TS]

  don't i don't think very much [TS]

  it's it but I've put a lot i bet you [TS]

  it's a lot sometimes sometimes you see [TS]

  statistics on those little nagging [TS]

  science where they say they took give [TS]

  you all these layers of water and things [TS]

  like that and see right there right [TS]

  there with you doing you're falling for [TS]

  their trap right because look at the way [TS]

  they always express those things they [TS]

  will always give you statistics in just [TS]

  huge numbers right they play the huge [TS]

  number game that did you know that [TS]

  people washing their hands in California [TS]

  they use a bajillion leaders of water [TS]

  every minute like oh my god a bajillion [TS]

  leaders of water that sounds like so [TS]

  much the only relevant question in any [TS]

  of these scenarios i get if you're [TS]

  thinking about I really care about [TS]

  mother earth and I really care about not [TS]

  using her resources [TS]

  the thing is not the absolute amount of [TS]

  resources in any particular situation [TS]

  the question is what percent of the pie [TS]

  chart of total resource use is this [TS]

  water use for example personal water use [TS]

  like people using water for drinking and [TS]

  for showering and for laundering howls [TS]

  presumably this is like zero percent of [TS]

  the water use and and the huge huge [TS]

  amount of water use is usually ghost [TS]

  things like agriculture or some [TS]

  industrial processes right like if you [TS]

  care about the environment that is the [TS]

  thing to focus on is like changing how [TS]

  the vast majority of water is being used [TS]

  it's crazy making to focus on like the [TS]

  little thing that you can see like i [TS]

  think that's that's naturally where [TS]

  people's brains go with this kind of [TS]

  stuff they focus on like oh there's this [TS]

  little thing that I can see in front of [TS]

  me and I'm going to spend some time on [TS]

  changing its like it has no impact [TS]

  whatsoever on the global scheme charity [TS]

  of a thousand miles starts with one step [TS]

  gray but if you're just walking a [TS]

  thousand random steps in random [TS]

  directions you're making no progress on [TS]

  anything [TS]

  no progress whatsoever that's that's all [TS]

  I'm saying [TS]

  all right look this seems like a good [TS]

  time to promote one of my topics up the [TS]

  running order then because it sort of [TS]

  ties in [TS]

  go ahead it's a bit of follow-up it [TS]

  involves the invention of a new term [TS]

  which is a favorite pastime of mine we [TS]

  have another predetermined ue we do I [TS]

  want to talk about something that i'm [TS]

  going to call cheer pressure sheer [TS]

  pressure [TS]

  yeah so if i take you back to last [TS]

  episode I was talking about this this [TS]

  cricket match and how this guy had [TS]

  marked up at the end of a cricket match [TS]

  and it and then lot of people have [TS]

  criticized him online [TS]

  mm and then all these other people kind [TS]

  of rushed to his defense and said you [TS]

  shouldn't pick on Amy tried hard he put [TS]

  his hand up at the end of the game and [TS]

  you know had the courage to try and if [TS]

  he files you shouldn't you shouldn't [TS]

  pick on him and I didn't completely [TS]

  agree with that but then it had echoes [TS]

  later in the same show when I made a few [TS]

  glib comments about the space X program [TS]

  Elon Musk's private rocket company who [TS]

  that has been attempting to land Rockets [TS]

  on platforms in the sea to sort of make [TS]

  them reusable so they sort of self land [TS]

  which is quite a quite an impressive [TS]

  thing to do we make a rocket real and [TS]

  after use standing upright and had been [TS]

  a few spectacular crashes and they blew [TS]

  up and just my luck straight after we [TS]

  recorded there was a very successful [TS]

  landing at me and you have anyway that's [TS]

  that's because that's what it was it was [TS]

  like the day after we recorded he had a [TS]

  huge success [TS]

  yeah and I waited eight weeks to [TS]

  actually release the exit making you [TS]

  look like a total idiot [TS]

  yeah anyway that's beside the point that [TS]

  there were a series of quite spectacular [TS]

  crashes and I made some some jokes about [TS]

  it and I don't want to say that lots of [TS]

  people got in touch and lots of people [TS]

  complained because it's very easy to [TS]

  think when you see the 5 or 6 comments [TS]

  on reddit that that's lots of people [TS]

  when of course it's not [TS]

  whenever how many hundreds of thousands [TS]

  of people listen whatever but it does it [TS]

  does seem like loud in your head when [TS]

  you read the comments and it's easy to [TS]

  have them stick in your craw right where [TS]

  you feel like you need to address those [TS]

  things [TS]

  yeah and the main sentiment of them i [TS]

  haven't got any of them in from [TS]

  to me at the moment but i think the main [TS]

  sentiment of them were I I should know [TS]

  better as an enthusiast about space and [TS]

  the Apollo program I shouldn't be [TS]

  speaking down about SpaceX basically [TS]

  actually supporting I should be [TS]

  supporting them and there was also [TS]

  comments which is true along the lines [TS]

  of that space exploration is really hard [TS]

  and lots of things go wrong [TS]

  I'm sure you were unaware of that here [TS]

  with us face that expression is [TS]

  difficult Brady but this but this this [TS]

  new thing that's happening it ends [TS]

  something also have complained about on [TS]

  the show before and there is these kind [TS]

  of and I related to science more than [TS]

  anything because I guess I'm a society [TS]

  person and I find lots of society people [TS]

  on Twitter and that is this science [TS]

  cheerleading m and this this over [TS]

  enthusiasm and over positivity about [TS]

  anything science-related and this and [TS]

  now it's going the other way into what I [TS]

  call this cheer pressure of this kind of [TS]

  turning and belittling people if they [TS]

  dare criticize or speak against science [TS]

  or exploration or whatever their [TS]

  whatever the chosen topic is let how do [TS]

  you speak badly about SpaceX you're [TS]

  supposed to be one of us Brady you're [TS]

  supposed to be a space person you're [TS]

  supposed to be a science person you're [TS]

  not allowed to criticize SpaceX you're [TS]

  not allowed to make jokes about his [TS]

  rockets falling over like drunk people [TS]

  as they try to land on the platform [TS]

  right and and my shoot is yes I have [TS]

  it's not you're pressuring me well I'll [TS]

  make jokes about it doesn't mean i don't [TS]

  think it's also it doesn't doesn't mean [TS]

  I don't like space exploration but like [TS]

  you're allowed to criticize things [TS]

  you're there to make jokes and like [TS]

  chili everyone and like this this is [TS]

  sort of now rabbit turning on people if [TS]

  they dare [TS]

  it's almost it's like you know that code [TS]

  button on my hootsie lon mask me he's [TS]

  the Science Guy himself he's not the one [TS]

  huh but we have to make jokes at his [TS]

  expense and pick on him you know [TS]

  everyone picks on a lot mask it's like a [TS]

  it's like a fun sport isn't up I would [TS]

  never say anything bad about you like [TS]

  masquerading know you would you would [TS]

  say anything bad about him but but you [TS]

  also wouldn't turn on someone who did [TS]

  you have course not of course that TMI [TS]

  am i imagining this [TS]

  this is cheer pressure think I'm already [TS]

  trying to formulate in my mind [TS]

  like a definition for what you mean by [TS]

  this but I think that I think you're [TS]

  onto something here ready I'm [TS]

  immediately latching on to cheer [TS]

  pressure sounds right [TS]

  yeah that it's like a reverse bullying [TS]

  from people who are into a thing I i [TS]

  know i'm i'm having a hard time [TS]

  articulating what it is but just just [TS]

  like hot stoppers something about this [TS]

  feels innately right i mean it's [TS]

  basically pressuring people with similar [TS]

  interests to all be positive about the [TS]

  same thing [TS]

  hmm we must all cheer together we must [TS]

  all be cheerleaders for SpaceX because [TS]

  if one of us doesn't tell the line i can [TS]

  be interested in space exploration and [TS]

  still make jokes and criticize and [TS]

  things like this there's nothing wrong [TS]

  with that it's quite a scientific thing [TS]

  to do isn't it [TS]

  it's also just funny i think that's a [TS]

  good working definition and i like that [TS]

  and i think that there is something [TS]

  something along those lines [TS]

  what you're feeling here is one of the [TS]

  various and multitude side effects of [TS]

  humans and their group thinking I think [TS]

  there is just something innately in [TS]

  humans that is desirous of being part of [TS]

  a group like when someone listens to the [TS]

  podcast right and they hear you and they [TS]

  hear you talk about the space program [TS]

  and I can you love all of this stuff and [TS]

  if they're a person who's super into [TS]

  space they are now mentally categorizing [TS]

  you as like oh this person is in the [TS]

  exact same group is made and so then [TS]

  when there's any kind of divergence from [TS]

  that the person this kind of cheer [TS]

  pressure is is coming out right where [TS]

  the person wants to bring you back into [TS]

  line with like you are part of my group [TS]

  like I listen to the podcast I like you [TS]

  I like space hearing you say something I [TS]

  don't like about space is suddenly [TS]

  causing a problem in my brain because i [TS]

  can't neatly put you into the group of [TS]

  people who are super into space all the [TS]

  time 100-percent just like I am I think [TS]

  that's what's occurring it's because the [TS]

  people like you Brady they want you in [TS]

  the group that that's what that's what's [TS]

  occurring here that that's why I think [TS]

  like relating this to peer pressure is [TS]

  the right [TS]

  metaphor to make where peer pressure is [TS]

  about group conformity and this cheer [TS]

  pressure is a similar thing it but it's [TS]

  it's like the next level up of not just [TS]

  conformity but visible and obvious [TS]

  enthusiasm for all of the things that [TS]

  the group has decided are good to be [TS]

  visibly and obviously enthusiastic about [TS]

  em I can get behind this one and I'm [TS]

  well aware and you know although when [TS]

  our testing for the early space program [TS]

  before Mara carry their rockets were [TS]

  blowing up all the time [TS]

  there's a really famous montage in the [TS]

  film the right stuff that just shows all [TS]

  these Rockets flying up one after the [TS]

  other it's a classic it's a classic [TS]

  moment in the film and like we're just [TS]

  going through that again and do I'm sure [TS]

  I'm sure that we're getting flack at the [TS]

  time to when that when the press where [TS]

  they're filming and the Rockets were [TS]

  blowing up and you just gotta get [TS]

  through that it's just part of the drama [TS]

  of it all you know and we don't all have [TS]

  to just if everyone just choose a [TS]

  hundred percent and pat him on the back [TS]

  every time one of these Rockets blows up [TS]

  and says don't worry you'll get it next [TS]

  time and no one says gosh these people [TS]

  know what they're doing nothing ever [TS]

  gets achieved there's no pressure and [TS]

  criticism and that really pushes people [TS]

  that that scrutiny and that fear of [TS]

  failure if people are worried about [TS]

  things going wrong and I think they work [TS]

  as hard [TS]

  keeps them on their toes in a free [TS]

  society should have brought this out to [TS]

  the wide as possible that like in a free [TS]

  society [TS]

  you should be able to criticize whatever [TS]

  you want that doesn't exist and even if [TS]

  you like tremendous pier or cheer [TS]

  pressure like you you feel like you're [TS]

  not allowed to say things like I don't [TS]

  think that's good for for freezes I [TS]

  think even if you're into space [TS]

  you should totally be able to criticize [TS]

  SpaceX if you want to or just make jokes [TS]

  at their expense like yeah they're doing [TS]

  a great thing but you can laugh at it [TS]

  like it's totally fine you know they're [TS]

  just they're just words floating in the [TS]

  air they're just like thoughts and [TS]

  people had you're not going out there [TS]

  like sabotaging the Rockets when you [TS]

  criticize them for falling over the [TS]

  first few attempts this episode of Hello [TS]

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  running a company and you're looking for [TS]

  a better way to handle your invoices [TS]

  make things simpler get paid faster show [TS]

  freshbooks a little bit of the hello [TS]

  Internet love by going to freshbooks com [TS]

  /hello and telling them that hello [TS]

  Internet is how you heard about them [TS]

  thanks to freshbooks for supporting the [TS]

  show [TS]

  i love i love this is a recurring theme [TS]

  of you Brady you put things in the show [TS]

  notes and then when it comes around to [TS]

  the episode you think I put this thing [TS]

  in here [TS]

  why did I put this thing in here I [TS]

  remember it made me really angry at the [TS]

  time but now i can't remember what yeah [TS]

  and I I think the thing is that it and [TS]

  if you do i guess that just wasn't [TS]

  massively useful can you recap it for me [TS]

  can I tell you why you put this article [TS]

  in there yeah i think this was just this [TS]

  was just one of a series of articles [TS]

  because it because the apple watch has [TS]

  been around for a year [TS]

  people are doing retrospectives on it [TS]

  okay yeah yeah that's why there's been [TS]

  an apple watch talk in the air is it's [TS]

  been a long enough time [TS]

  interestingly Apple hasn't released [TS]

  another one which makes people sort of [TS]

  question things quite a long time for [TS]

  them to have a generation one product [TS]

  this is one of the many articles kind of [TS]

  speculating about how many watches they [TS]

  could possibly have sold and coming up [TS]

  with numbers that don't necessarily look [TS]

  great as always with this kind of stuff [TS]

  it's shockingly hard to speculate about [TS]

  some apple stuff because they play their [TS]

  cards close to the chest as much as they [TS]

  can then the apple watch is one of these [TS]

  things they group into like an other [TS]

  sales category and like who knows what's [TS]

  in that other sales category [TS]

  yeah but either way the other sales [TS]

  category didn't shoot up a tremendous [TS]

  amounts you can safely assume like they [TS]

  didn't sell a bazillion watches like [TS]

  that's part of what this is but I see [TS]

  this sentiment a bunch of times and this [TS]

  always drives me crazy with not just the [TS]

  apple watch but with any technology [TS]

  products out there in the world that [TS]

  people always phrase it in terms of need [TS]

  whether say like do you need X and [TS]

  whenever anyone is asking that question [TS]

  the answer is almost always no no you [TS]

  don't need anything [TS]

  even I would argue like a smartphone do [TS]

  you need a smartphone now like it [TS]

  doesn't really fall under the category [TS]

  of need [TS]

  it's a thing that's incredibly useful i [TS]

  just always think that that framing is [TS]

  so wrong yeah but I think you're [TS]

  thinking of need in the wrong way I [TS]

  think you use the word yourself there [TS]

  usefully is their usefulness and I think [TS]

  that's what they mean by nate they don't [TS]

  mean like food or oxygen or water and I [TS]

  think they mean it as in can you get use [TS]

  out of it [TS]

  and even though I know you don't get us [TS]

  out of a diamond necklace i guess but [TS]

  that's not really how the airport sells [TS]

  itself is just purely a piece of [TS]

  ornament it does sell herself as a [TS]

  useful item so I think it's a fair [TS]

  question to ask about it it's just a [TS]

  different type of need I think yeah I [TS]

  mean I guess I the title i would want [TS]

  would be ungainly long to people find [TS]

  economic utility in the Apple watch like [TS]

  that's the title at once i guess i can [TS]

  see why they might want to use the word [TS]

  need but i always feel like that is just [TS]

  too strong if they want to four letter [TS]

  word I i think they could say want like [TS]

  do people want an apple watch like I [TS]

  think that conveys a much better idea [TS]

  and like you said there it's like [TS]

  jewelry [TS]

  nobody in the world needs jewelry but do [TS]

  people want jewelry and its various [TS]

  forms [TS]

  yes that is clearly a demand that people [TS]

  have even though there's just no utility [TS]

  to it whatsoever but it doesn't matter [TS]

  because monkeys like shiny things right [TS]

  and so that they want to buy them want [TS]

  is slightly the wrong word to for me [TS]

  they're great because you gave me one [TS]

  for Christmas [TS]

  I'd say thank you and I maybe where [TS]

  occasionally and look at it and so uh I [TS]

  want one I want to look at it and play [TS]

  with it but nowhere near enough to pay [TS]

  for one so I don't think what is the [TS]

  right word either but i don't know [TS]

  whether right where it is [TS]

  we need a word between need and want [TS]

  yeah you're the you're the word man [TS]

  Brady yeah I'm uh I'm got that it cannot [TS]

  be weighed that was precisely like do [TS]

  people we'd an Apple watch [TS]

  ok I I don't see any problem with using [TS]

  a word like that you know within context [TS]

  i'm sure it'd be very clear do people [TS]

  we'd an Apple watch [TS]

  I don't think so ok I it's almost like [TS]

  it does therefore which have a role in [TS]

  in the world is what is coming down to [TS]

  is there a role for it in people's life [TS]

  that is the question [TS]

  and as we discussed last time like I'm i [TS]

  am surprised by the lack of Apple [TS]

  watches that I see in the real world [TS]

  it provides a great deal of utility for [TS]

  me and I totally love it but i would [TS]

  just like I would die to know like what [TS]

  does Apple internally think about their [TS]

  own app [TS]

  watch I just don't know but speaking of [TS]

  things that I weed because of You Brady [TS]

  i actually went out and bought an iphone [TS]

  SE e 0 and I am entirely blaming this on [TS]

  you because we have these conversations [TS]

  sometimes in like you plant a little [TS]

  thought in my head there's little this [TS]

  little irritating grain of sand in my [TS]

  mind that I don't want their but that [TS]

  you come along and you just drop into my [TS]

  brain and you planted one of these [TS]

  irritating grains of sand in my mind [TS]

  about the iphone SE when we discussed [TS]

  last time I know is I heard the moment [TS]

  happened I could I could I could yeah as [TS]

  I was listening to the podcast i could [TS]

  hear you like something flip in your [TS]

  voice [TS]

  yeah should be perfect sounds just like [TS]

  me [TS]

  I so there's these two conflicting [TS]

  aspects of my personality regarding the [TS]

  iphone SE the the primary one which I [TS]

  was thinking is I know that I'm a person [TS]

  who likes to have up-to-date technology [TS]

  that's just part of my personality [TS]

  that's the way that I am I know and [TS]

  accept that right and so I thought well [TS]

  getting on the iphone SE track this is [TS]

  no good because apples probably not [TS]

  going to update this for forever but you [TS]

  you planted this idea of like just try [TS]

  it [TS]

  heap it's like it like a fun romantic [TS]

  fling with this other device like that [TS]

  just lodged into my brain in this way [TS]

  that I could not possibly remove and so [TS]

  I found myself going to the apple store [TS]

  like picking up an iphone SE and looking [TS]

  at it like turning it over in my hand [TS]

  and turning it over in my mind like I [TS]

  couldn't let it go and so I eventually [TS]

  caved and I did decide to to get one and [TS]

  so i have been using the iphone SE for [TS]

  the past couple of days [TS]

  Wow and man I just like I forgot how [TS]

  perfect of a physical size this phone is [TS]

  well just [TS]

  it's it is like sweet sweet relief after [TS]

  this long nightmare of the iphone 6 and [TS]

  6s generation you know how pleasurable [TS]

  it is to hold a phone and to not be [TS]

  thinking I hope this doesn't slide out [TS]

  of my hand I can hardly grip that round [TS]

  edge like it's it's it's slippery so you [TS]

  don't drop it right kind like the [TS]

  thought that is in your head every [TS]

  single time you pick up one of the [TS]

  iphone s models or like when i first got [TS]

  the original ass like oh this phone [TS]

  it's a little too big and a little too [TS]

  small at the same time like it's just [TS]

  these frustrating things like to pick up [TS]

  a phone and to have it one fit entirely [TS]

  within my hand to have a single thumb be [TS]

  able to reach every single point on the [TS]

  screen and 3 hold it securely with [TS]

  straight edges on the phone it is just [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  it's absolutely amazing i am so happy to [TS]

  be using this size phone [TS]

  well what about things like the smaller [TS]

  screen for you know watching video and [TS]

  heard you got used to the biggest grain [TS]

  and what about memory and battery life [TS]

  and the other potential drawbacks [TS]

  yeah there are potentially a bunch of [TS]

  drawbacks and when you do start using it [TS]

  at first like some of the icons do seem [TS]

  ridiculously small and all of the icons [TS]

  bunch together on the screen seem like [TS]

  point is not a lot of space between [TS]

  these iconic everything feels really [TS]

  crowded but you get used to it so fast i [TS]

  was watching a YouTube video on earlier [TS]

  that get like you were discussing for [TS]

  your own words like someone sent me a [TS]

  thing to review and so I was taking a [TS]

  look at it on the smaller phone on the [TS]

  go and it didn't even occur to me like [TS]

  oh man I just wish the screen was bigger [TS]

  like it was totally fine for purpose [TS]

  like to be able to do some basic work on [TS]

  it like it was absolutely fine [TS]

  so the smaller screen is is not an issue [TS]

  this is really interesting i'm convinced [TS]

  my biggest fans giving the IRS I oh yeah [TS]

  why do you say that I just feel like my [TS]

  the back of my right hand hurts a lot [TS]

  from when i use a loan from all that [TS]

  reaching and shimmying and so I think [TS]

  I'm gonna go smoke oh yeah and gripping [TS]

  it tightly in your hand to make sure [TS]

  that it doesn't fall right like i [TS]

  gotta-i gotta put a death grip on this [TS]

  like I'm choking a chicken to death [TS]

  right like you gotta hold on to that [TS]

  phone you know what the message here is [TS]

  great [TS]

  what's the message brandi was right [TS]

  oh yeah is that what it is yeah I do i [TS]

  do have to say like you you planting [TS]

  that seed in my head as irritating as I [TS]

  found it for i mean i don't know like [TS]

  two weeks that just kept rolling around [TS]

  in my brain and I couldn't let it go and [TS]

  I was I was genuinely annoyed with you [TS]

  in this way because it was like yeah [TS]

  like this is not rational but [TS]

  nonetheless like I can't let go of this [TS]

  thought I am just so happy I'm so happy [TS]

  now and i love this phone design [TS]

  probably the biggest challenge going [TS]

  back to it i still like i've been using [TS]

  it for a few days i still have to do [TS]

  sometimes is that again i use my iphone [TS]

  in my left hand and I have to kind of [TS]

  really remember how to type with a [TS]

  single hand and I often catch my right [TS]

  hand reaching up to help and to type on [TS]

  the phone and have to go like no right [TS]

  hand now you're not actually helpful [TS]

  here like left hand can handle this [TS]

  this thing all by itself like it can do [TS]

  all of the typing and so I'm like I'm [TS]

  trying to train my right hand to not [TS]

  come up but i want to try to type with [TS]

  two thumbs even though that's that's [TS]

  totally impossible but I'm getting used [TS]

  to it very quickly that's probably been [TS]

  the biggest adjustments but alright let [TS]

  me let you out of the wilderness but you [TS]

  are still in the wilderness bring I know [TS]

  I know and I'm cabin grreat I'm yeah I'm [TS]

  gonna change [TS]

  yeah I'm not going I'm not gonna have a [TS]

  look in the storm this weekend or [TS]

  something [TS]

  looking at it in the store I was [TS]

  thinking I'll boy like this size is [TS]

  really nice and it's interesting to use [TS]

  and i love this design like it obviously [TS]

  looks better than the garbage 6 design i [TS]

  was thinkin all of those things but [TS]

  actually using it for a few days is like [TS]

  seeing in the store x 10 it's just it's [TS]

  I keep feeling this this word of like [TS]

  relief like I am relieved to have this [TS]

  phone now it's just so much nicer and so [TS]

  much more pleasant to use in every [TS]

  possible way I like that it's smaller i [TS]

  find it like in the gym taking it in and [TS]

  out of my pocket to record like [TS]

  exercises better across every single [TS]

  axes i find this phone superior so great [TS]

  i'm going to have a mechanical watch on [TS]

  your wrist by Christmas little not [TS]

  you will not my friend you will not to [TS]

  our by next June I'm becoming concerned [TS]

  with the amount of humility that golfers [TS]

  are showing and it's being it's being [TS]

  led by this guy who's one of the big hot [TS]

  golfers of the moments got called Jordan [TS]

  space and I know that he's not the only [TS]

  one who does this but he's the one that [TS]

  I really strongly notice doing this and [TS]

  then there is referring to himself as [TS]

  way and it and partly that's because he [TS]

  has got a team of people and he has got [TS]

  his caddy so when he's on the course [TS]

  there is a real team teamwork between [TS]

  the golfer in the caddy [TS]

  I do get that and I do get that being a [TS]

  professional golfer this day these days [TS]

  isn't just like one person there is like [TS]

  a team around you but this sort of [TS]

  humbleness at the end of the round when [TS]

  you do something good and saying yeah we [TS]

  had a great day and we were really happy [TS]

  with how we played when really there's [TS]

  only one person striking the bowl and [TS]

  doing these things sometimes seems a bit [TS]

  disingenuous i'm not familiar with this [TS]

  person would he would he really say a [TS]

  sentence like that we had [TS]

  yeah we had a really great day today and [TS]

  and don't get me wrong he has got a [TS]

  caddy standing next to him who is doing [TS]

  more than just carrying his club's I do [TS]

  understand the role of a caddy and [TS]

  modern golf but still it reached as enna [TS]

  at the recent masters tournament when it [TS]

  was won by a guy called Danny Willett is [TS]

  an English guy and he was being [TS]

  interviewed afterwards he was obviously [TS]

  trying to do the way thing which [TS]

  obviously has become the thing to do now [TS]

  he was talking about how we're really [TS]

  happy way and he was sort of slipping [TS]

  between we and I in this uncomfortable [TS]

  way and it at reaching it reached [TS]

  fascicle proportions when he was talking [TS]

  about his parents and how much his [TS]

  parents did for him when he was growing [TS]

  up and he said that he said of his [TS]

  parents he said I hope they're really [TS]

  proud of the person we've become I don't [TS]

  think even the Queen we'd use we in that [TS]

  way [TS]

  no but it does but it did it did remind [TS]

  me that this is this is something that I [TS]

  think we as in people like us gray can [TS]

  be guilty of and I can be guilty of and [TS]

  they there is I quite often use way home [TS]

  when referring to things i'm doing like [TS]

  if I'm talking about something at [TS]

  numberphile or something that period [TS]

  videos i will often use way and should i [TS]

  be using I and partly using way because [TS]

  I do work with all these other people [TS]

  and there's all these people i feel- [TS]

  huge team effort but if I'm sitting here [TS]

  at my desk saying we love all these [TS]

  tweets ending in and i'm the only one [TS]

  reading them who knows about them [TS]

  it is a little bit disingenuous of me to [TS]

  be using way people like me who is sort [TS]

  of individuals but work with other [TS]

  people i sometimes get myself into a [TS]

  tangle about when I should use way and I [TS]

  wonder what you think about that but it [TS]

  didn't really occur to me I mean there [TS]

  are scenarios under which may be [TS]

  theoretically this would be a problem [TS]

  for me like with the star trek video [TS]

  that i made we're connected all the [TS]

  artwork but it wouldn't occur to me on [TS]

  Twitter to say something like we are [TS]

  really happy with the way the video is [TS]

  being received like that that would that [TS]

  would seem like i'm having some kind of [TS]

  psychotic break to write a tweet in that [TS]

  way even where it's a case like [TS]

  obviously I didn't draw that artwork [TS]

  I'm obviously not that talented but it [TS]

  would seem so strange to use a wee in in [TS]

  a scenario like that [TS]

  yeah but I don't feel strange when our [TS]

  to a tweet likes I'm tweeting under the [TS]

  periodic videos banner which is you know [TS]

  I work with all these professors and [TS]

  chemists and stuff and if I say we're [TS]

  really excited about the video we're [TS]

  putting out tomorrow when i'm just [TS]

  sitting at my desk on mine I haven't [TS]

  spoken to the others for a week auto [TS]

  right they don't know the videos even [TS]

  coming out tomorrow right [TS]

  it's just you and the dogs there yeah [TS]

  yeah so and yeah I feel completely [TS]

  comfortable saying that I do feel [TS]

  completely comfortable referring to my [TS]

  projects with a way [TS]

  ok I think there's this couple things [TS]

  that are different here that right [TS]

  because one you're tweeting from the [TS]

  periodic videos tweet right and and you [TS]

  have a separate Brady Haran twitter that [TS]

  is you as an individual [TS]

  so this is periodic videos the corporate [TS]

  entity talking about what everyone has [TS]

  done [TS]

  in the same way like we don't really use [TS]

  this is that we have a whole lot of [TS]

  sense it's all tangled in my friend you [TS]

  you and I Brady you and I do not tweet [TS]

  from the hello Internet twitter account [TS]

  very often i don't think i would go on [TS]

  to the hello Internet Twitter account [TS]

  and make any kind of statement in the [TS]

  first person I I don't think I would do [TS]

  that right i think if i hit you and I [TS]

  use the Twitter account to announce that [TS]

  you and I are going to be recording an [TS]

  episode i think i would use the word we [TS]

  if I was tweeting from the hello [TS]

  internet account we are going to be [TS]

  recording tonight is there anything we [TS]

  should talk about that seems very [TS]

  natural because it's you and me right [TS]

  yeah i think though where you run into [TS]

  more trouble to hopefully poison your [TS]

  mind to keep it is whenever you are [TS]

  talking about any of your videos because [TS]

  you are not on camera very often in most [TS]

  of your projects objectivity is a [TS]

  notable exception but for like on [TS]

  numberphile you're behind the camera [TS]

  most of the time [TS]

  hmm you know sometimes the audience will [TS]

  hear you ask a question right in that [TS]

  you're there but the person you're [TS]

  filming is the visual on-screen presence [TS]

  yeah and you are the editing presence [TS]

  and so it seems like it's almost [TS]

  impossible for you to talk about any of [TS]

  your number file like videos in anything [TS]

  other than a week yeah because it's it's [TS]

  so intrinsically a multi-person project [TS]

  even though you are doing the filming [TS]

  and you are doing the editing you aren't [TS]

  really doing any of the explaining like [TS]

  someone else's on camera doing the [TS]

  talking like you're guiding that and [TS]

  editing that it's obviously the two of [TS]

  you so from now on you should never use [TS]

  the first person singular when referring [TS]

  to any of your videos like that you [TS]

  should always usually that's what you [TS]

  should do [TS]

  yeah yeah even if you're tweeting from [TS]

  from Brady Haran we are quite pleased [TS]

  with the reception of the latest [TS]

  numberphile video that's that's what you [TS]

  should do from now on the main reason I [TS]

  started that Brady Haran Twitter was I [TS]

  was getting myself into such a pickle [TS]

  with disentangling myself from they may [TS]

  in being in projects but they're the [TS]

  mask you're being another use of the [TS]

  weave out [TS]

  yeah what do you think when i say a [TS]

  couple you know comes up to you and says [TS]

  say it like at a dinner party something [TS]

  they go we have an exciting announcement [TS]

  we're pregnant what do you think about [TS]

  that use of the way i am not a fan of it [TS]

  I don't want to offend anyone but i [TS]

  think i think only one person can be [TS]

  pregnant in that scenario i appreciate [TS]

  the Solidarity of it and if you choose [TS]

  to do it i respect to X if someone came [TS]

  up to me and said we're pregnant I [TS]

  wouldn't laugh at them and say you're an [TS]

  idiot [TS]

  only she is but it's not it's not the [TS]

  path i would choose yeah you wouldn't [TS]

  you wouldn't go that way [TS]

  no I i think it seems strange yeah but i [TS]

  but I get it you know in the modern [TS]

  world and look at you look at you being [TS]

  all diplomatic you've got you know you [TS]

  have to be sometimes you have to be I [TS]

  don't think you have to be I I think [TS]

  it's better to say that the individual [TS]

  is pregnant was pregnant I guess if you [TS]

  come up and say we're pregnant it takes [TS]

  away my ability to make the host the [TS]

  father joke [TS]

  yeah yeah there it is that is that your [TS]

  go-to very few people announced they're [TS]

  pregnant father [TS]

  it depends on the air depends on the on [TS]

  the toad turn of the announcement I [TS]

  think you could say we're having a baby [TS]

  and I'd be really comfortable with that [TS]

  no I think any one person can be [TS]

  biologically pregnant I have no such [TS]

  compulsion to avoid defense in this case [TS]

  whenever I hear anyone say we're [TS]

  pregnant [TS]

  I just internally i'm thinking you know [TS]

  how stupid you sound right now if you [TS]

  think i know i don't like this is [TS]

  supposed to be a moment where I'm really [TS]

  happy for you but really internally i [TS]

  can't help but the reflexive thought of [TS]

  like you sound like idiots at this [TS]

  moment right saying we're pregnant like [TS]

  no you're not pregnant she's pregnant [TS]

  you got her pregnant that's how this [TS]

  works we are having a baby is the [TS]

  appropriate way to phrase that you two [TS]

  having a baby but the we're pregnant [TS]

  thing it seems like bizarre over [TS]

  solidarity aside from just being an [TS]

  idiot like it's almost creepy like [TS]

  there's something about it which is like [TS]

  I don't know it's like it's too much man [TS]

  this is a nice segue to Brady's papercut [TS]

  because i haven't done it [TS]

  ladies papercut for a while it's been [TS]

  forever it has been over but my paper [TS]

  cut that I wanted to bring up today is [TS]

  also to do with the turn of phrase em [TS]

  that works me and I want to see where [TS]

  you stand up [TS]

  mhm if something happens and you're not [TS]

  particularly bothered by your shrugs [TS]

  about it which is often your response to [TS]

  it as saying you may use is I blank care [TS]

  less what would the blank baby you there [TS]

  couldn't care less [TS]

  I couldn't care less thank you i know [TS]

  lots of people say I could care less i [TS]

  think this is an Americanism I don't [TS]

  know and no man that annoys me because [TS]

  it completely changes the meaning of the [TS]

  what you sayin it's the opposite and it [TS]

  takes away the impact saying i could not [TS]

  care less is like funny saying I could [TS]

  care less means there is scope for me to [TS]

  care less so I do care to some extent [TS]

  and it's taken away all the meaning [TS]

  you're trying to give of being [TS]

  completely different i agree i think [TS]

  couldn't care less is the only [TS]

  appropriate way to phrase this [TS]

  Thank You there's no other way to phrase [TS]

  this and yes it is almost [TS]

  unintentionally hilarious that the [TS]

  person gives the exact reverse of what [TS]

  they are usually trying to say people do [TS]

  all the time [TS]

  oh I could care this really so you do [TS]

  care do that's good [TS]

  no I don't care what you just said you [TS]

  could care less so that mean yeah i [TS]

  think this is one of those cases where [TS]

  in language you you often have cases [TS]

  where people don't even hear or think [TS]

  about the words they're saying there is [TS]

  just a phrase that exists that expresses [TS]

  a thing and the person is not thinking [TS]

  about the actual words i just came [TS]

  across something like this the other day [TS]

  when i use some phrase and I had to stop [TS]

  and I felt like what does that even mean [TS]

  we could like these words that I've just [TS]

  said i know the feeling that i'm trying [TS]

  to express but has never occurred to me [TS]

  to examine these actual words before I [TS]

  really good example of that i always [TS]

  think it's not phrase but a word is [TS]

  breakfast like the word breakfast has [TS]

  transcended breaking the fast now [TS]

  moon and no one thinks of breaking fast [TS]

  when they say breakfast breakfast its [TS]

  own thing that [TS]

  that transcends its origins that that's [TS]

  a good way to put it [TS]

  and I think maybe maybe Brady if you're [TS]

  feeling in accepting food you should [TS]

  accept I could care less as breakfast [TS]

  that the person is you know what they're [TS]

  trying to express and they're just using [TS]

  a sequence of sounds to express that [TS]

  idea [TS]

  now now you know you're not gonna you're [TS]

  not gonna go with that you know is that [TS]

  it because of people started misspelling [TS]

  breakfast I wouldn't just accept that [TS]

  should do it like that I would not [TS]

  accept that sir app because because the [TS]

  thing about the thing is as well saying [TS]

  when you say I couldn't care less [TS]

  you are being smart ass like you are [TS]

  being sassy when you say I couldn't care [TS]

  less as you know on the internet when [TS]

  you are a smart so when you're being [TS]

  clever there is huge extra [TS]

  responsibility on you to get things [TS]

  right [TS]

  that's a good point yeah like I'm sure [TS]

  if you've ever written off as snarky [TS]

  comment on whether or Twitter or YouTube [TS]

  you check it and triple-checked yeah you [TS]

  haven't made you haven't we haven't made [TS]

  a spelling mistake you haven't because [TS]

  nothing looks more stupid than being [TS]

  snapped and mr. smartass and then being [TS]

  wrong yourself so i think that's what it [TS]

  is [TS]

  whoa i could converse and they're being [TS]

  they think they're being all that I feel [TS]

  like saying well you have knob you just [TS]

  said about i think you're right i think [TS]

  you're right there's something like [TS]

  intrinsically slacker teenager e about [TS]

  the phrase I couldn't care less [TS]

  that's the feeling that comes along with [TS]

  that but her shoulder when you're being [TS]

  snarky [TS]

  you have to be on the ball is like [TS]

  everybody's had the experience of giving [TS]

  into their inner grammar nazi and [TS]

  correcting someone about a picky point [TS]

  and then discovering later to their [TS]

  horror that they made an error in their [TS]

  very corrections ya know I look like a [TS]

  total moron denote the number of times [TS]

  I've corrected someone effect like Oh [TS]

  didn't you know everyone knows that [TS]

  after spending eight hours researching [TS]

  on the internet [TS]

  thank you to squarespace for their [TS]

  support of this podcast if you've never [TS]

  used Squarespace i recommend you listen [TS]

  for the next few seconds because it's [TS]

  really worth hearing about them i have [TS]

  to be used to find a little bit hard [TS]

  explaining what Squarespace is I looked [TS]

  it up on Wikipedia to see how it was [TS]

  described there and there was called a [TS]

  SAS based CMS which kind of makes sense [TS]

  if you know what those things are but [TS]

  still sounds kind of technical i [TS]

  described as a website that lets you [TS]

  make your own website now I round two [TS]

  sites of our Squarespace my own blog and [TS]

  the podcast postcard site and basically [TS]

  I just log in and it gives me access to [TS]

  the back end of both those websites [TS]

  it's a really simple clean really cool [TS]

  interface and from there I can add pages [TS]

  i can update pages i can embed my [TS]

  youtube videos insert pictures write [TS]

  blog posts i can do anything on both the [TS]

  website and within a few k stroke [TS]

  sometimes the site's updated they look [TS]

  great and they work on everyone's [TS]

  devices and computers on mobile phones [TS]

  that's all taken care of [TS]

  behind-the-scenes Squarespace has got [TS]

  great templates to get you started that [TS]

  way you can rest assure your works going [TS]

  to look professional but you can also [TS]

  get into those templates and customize [TS]

  them really tweak them to your heart's [TS]

  content make the site look your own so [TS]

  if you want to be more a part of the [TS]

  internet maybe you want to blog a [TS]

  portfolio maybe you want to start a shop [TS]

  Squarespace is great for that to really [TS]

  just give them a look give it a try [TS]

  you can actually set up a practice site [TS]

  without making any commitment just to [TS]

  see how well it works for you that's [TS]

  what I did the start if you like what [TS]

  you say you can then get ten percent of [TS]

  your first purchase by using the offer [TS]

  code [TS]

  hello at squarespace.com offer code [TS]

  hello so they know you came from the [TS]

  podcast Squarespace all one word with [TS]

  the dot-com as i said i use it i know [TS]

  gray users that we're really pleased to [TS]

  have them as a sponsor of the show our [TS]

  thanks to squarespace just a quick [TS]

  mention by popular demand how [TS]

  appropriate actually just as I started [TS]

  that sentence i'm looking at my window [TS]

  at a huge containership going along the [TS]

  Bristol Channel because it's a red [TS]

  container ship which is the same color [TS]

  as this polar research vessel that is to [TS]

  be [TS]

  instructed by the British government I [TS]

  believe to go and do science in li [TS]

  Antarctica Antarctica and they decided [TS]

  they would allow it to be named by the [TS]

  public by sort of public suggestions and [TS]

  public votes [TS]

  hmmm what could possibly go wrong [TS]

  everything everything could go wrong [TS]

  people now you don't just open up a [TS]

  collection to the internet that the [TS]

  terrible idea exactly they made two [TS]

  mistakes that you and I did not make [TS]

  when we had a flag though [TS]

  yeah because we're professionals so what [TS]

  they did not do is create their own [TS]

  short list which we did and another [TS]

  thing they didn't do is put physical and [TS]

  financial constraints between people and [TS]

  their ability to vote which we did by [TS]

  the postcards and because they made that [TS]

  mistake the internet had fun with them [TS]

  and by far and away the most popular [TS]

  name that was suggested jokingly and [TS]

  then received well over a hundred [TS]

  thousand votes to win the pole was boaty [TS]

  mcboatface which does not seem a very [TS]

  great name for a you know a polar [TS]

  exploration ship I think that we're [TS]

  imagining would be won by something like [TS]

  you know just Scott or they the her [TS]

  Royal Highness or anthem of the Seas or [TS]

  something suitably grad button but no [TS]

  boaty mcboatface so obviously that I [TS]

  think that the minister the government [TS]

  minister has had to intervene and say [TS]

  we're not going to call a podium at both [TS]

  face I think that's been taken off the [TS]

  table and I don't know what you think [TS]

  about that gray ok well i mean as often [TS]

  happens with hello Internet preparations [TS]

  you bring up a thing and you say like oh [TS]

  should we talk about this thing and then [TS]

  i say i don't know what you're talking [TS]

  about i've never heard about this thing [TS]

  so this body mcboatface thing is new to [TS]

  me as of literally an hour ago I had I [TS]

  had never heard about this but you sent [TS]

  me an article which says that would you [TS]

  describe this internet election occurred [TS]

  boaty mcboatface was selected but then [TS]

  that the UK government is saying no [TS]

  we're not going to name it bodean [TS]

  mcboatface and and obviously I haven't [TS]

  been following the story [TS]

  but it feels like okay one UK government [TS]

  you ran your election horribly for the [TS]

  reasons mentioned before to you were the [TS]

  luckiest bastards on the face of the [TS]

  earth to get the name bode mcboatface I [TS]

  could you know how horribly this could [TS]

  have gone like Modi mcboatface you [TS]

  should be kissing the ground that the [TS]

  internet selected that name like that's [TS]

  because it's like it's a fun name right [TS]

  everybody can get behind it it's like a [TS]

  look now you have this adorable Arctic [TS]

  research mascot like Brody mcboatface [TS]

  this is like the internet is you know [TS]

  sometimes it can be horrible but this is [TS]

  a moment where the Internet is blessing [TS]

  you with a bit of hilarity and then you [TS]

  make the final horrible step of coming [TS]

  in like some grumpy parent and saying no [TS]

  we can't call it Brody mcboatface we're [TS]

  going to give it some serious name every [TS]

  step of the way you have done this wrong [TS]

  like roll with it if it's boaty [TS]

  mcboatface migrate commissioned an [TS]

  artist to paint gigantic cartoon letters [TS]

  of Bodie mcboatface across the side of [TS]

  this thing i like is i went to the fuck [TS]

  yeah that's actually exactly you know [TS]

  make the stovepipe like a little hat you [TS]

  know do whatever you can do it would be [TS]

  it would like this goal [TS]

  this has got worldwide attention for [TS]

  something that was no one would have [TS]

  ever heard of people will flock to say [TS]

  it whenever it comes into port [TS]

  yeah like in Southampton wherever it is [TS]

  to let you know restock before its next [TS]

  mission people will come to see it [TS]

  they'll have their photo taken with it [TS]

  and that's a magnificent opportunity to [TS]

  then say look I know it's got a funny [TS]

  name [TS]

  let us tell you a bit about the science [TS]

  we're doing and like this was a you're [TS]

  right this was a gift horse this kind of [TS]

  backfired terribly and instead it became [TS]

  this i'm actually surprised it didn't [TS]

  get through the gray bubble because it [TS]

  even became bit of a main for a few days [TS]

  and and people were like were adopting [TS]

  determine people would say our look it's [TS]

  great grey face and let's go [TS]

  you know people would work changing it [TS]

  to whatever whatever they wanted that's [TS]

  not this is the mutation that always [TS]

  take this right here this was fantastic [TS]

  and then to come to appear like you said [TS]

  like a grumpy parent like to be so [TS]

  draconian about it [TS]

  I think I think that mr. trick and like [TS]

  I kind of get if i was spending hundreds [TS]

  of millions of pounds on a ship that was [TS]

  really proud of and I had and I thought [TS]

  it was going to have a magnificent night [TS]

  and I had a silly night i might think [TS]

  yeah yeah but that but if you did that's [TS]

  because you're a grump with no sense of [TS]

  humor or delight or anything like that [TS]

  and that's why because they're your [TS]

  government commission or something dumb [TS]

  and you don't understand how the world [TS]

  works and what's delights and sparks [TS]

  people's interest right that's probably [TS]

  why you're in the position that you're [TS]

  in right now that's probably why you ran [TS]

  this internet election the way that you [TS]

  didn't like the most cursory of research [TS]

  would have revealed that this would be a [TS]

  terrible way to run into an election [TS]

  like this is not the first time someone [TS]

  has opened up with something to the [TS]

  public for the internet to vote on it [TS]

  was like guess what they truly do the [TS]

  thing that you want them to do like [TS]

  almost by definition you are going to [TS]

  get opposite results from what you want [TS]

  the first one of these I can ever [TS]

  remember is this is ages ago but the [TS]

  first one was it [TS]

  I think was t-shirt hell but this guy [TS]

  who ran this t-shirt selling company he [TS]

  ran a poll on the internets to change [TS]

  his name like he didn't like his name [TS]

  anything at all that the internet select [TS]

  my name and now he's named sunshine [TS]

  Megatron I think that's like this is [TS]

  what happens it huh yeah like whether [TS]

  there's like a a now decade-plus history [TS]

  of this kind of nonsense happening [TS]

  yeah i don't i also wonder how many [TS]

  times they're gonna have to paint over [TS]

  someone breaking into the docks in the [TS]

  middle of the night putting proteomic [TS]

  place on the side of the thing anyway [TS]

  now [TS]

  yeah that's exactly what's gonna happen [TS]

  mr. splashy pants was another one of [TS]

  these things where Greenpeace had some [TS]

  internet name to pick like a humpback [TS]

  whale they wanted to name and of course [TS]

  it comes with mr. splashy pants and it [TS]

  was a similar thing about like there was [TS]

  no there was some pushback about it like [TS]

  this is a long time ago this is one of [TS]

  like the earlier [TS]

  reddit history kind of things like this [TS]

  is always what's going to happen like [TS]

  you're gonna do you want the internet [TS]

  and name your thing like be careful what [TS]

  you wish for [TS]

  but if they're going to name it like for [TS]

  the love of God don't go against what [TS]

  they you just like you're guaranteed [TS]

  just to make everybody angry and I agree [TS]

  with you I wouldn't be the least bit [TS]

  surprised if they end up having to deal [TS]

  with vandalism like people spray-painted [TS]

  nobody mcboatface lives across the side [TS]

  of the but it's interesting seeing like [TS]

  big organizations interact with the [TS]

  internet and always just feels like you [TS]

  guys know what you're doing like is [TS]

  there anyone on your staff who's ever [TS]

  been on the internet the kids you think [TS]

  this through to take the other side for [TS]

  a minute because it's only fair and I do [TS]

  see the other side [TS]

  hmm this is like a funny joke for a week [TS]

  or two but like you hadn't heard of it [TS]

  and the joke will go away and we'll [TS]

  forget about it in a few weeks this boat [TS]

  sorry it's not actually about which is [TS]

  another issue this ship would be built [TS]

  for another couple of years and then it [TS]

  will probably be in service for 20 or 30 [TS]

  years is that is that right to have this [TS]

  this flash-in-the-pan joke on the side [TS]

  of the ship for all that time when you [TS]

  could do something a bit more dignified [TS]

  cold call at the david attenborough [TS]

  somethin okay let me ask you something [TS]

  how many boats in the world can you name [TS]

  well yeah yeah I I only a handful right [TS]

  but they all have very majestic names [TS]

  like the Queen Mary and and the Queen [TS]

  Elizabeth and things like that they [TS]

  don't have names like silly Mick [TS]

  silliness right but the thing is the [TS]

  majestic names don't guarantee [TS]

  notability because every boat has some [TS]

  majestic name right [TS]

  this is this is one way that this boat [TS]

  will at least be remembered and known [TS]

  about for a long period of time [TS]

  this makes it stand out like it's a [TS]

  funny thing it's a it's a bit of fun [TS]

  history that goes along with it makes it [TS]

  unique among the boats i don't agree [TS]

  with the like over 30 years from now [TS]

  we're going to have to be telling a [TS]

  story about how we're an internet poll [TS]

  in the name of protein mcboatface like [TS]

  that's that's part of the fun of it i [TS]

  think that's what makes it unique [TS]

  I didn't I cry out about it let me argue [TS]

  the point then I think it's incumbent on [TS]

  leaders and people in position [TS]

  of authority to think beyond and Mimi [TS]

  joke for a couple of weeks [TS]

  it's easy for you and I to see here [TS]

  don't get me wrong i know i've been [TS]

  saying they should call the boat in my [TS]

  face but it's easy for you and I to sit [TS]

  here and think it amuses us and it has [TS]

  amused the internet let's do it [TS]

  whereas there are other people who have [TS]

  to think about other considerations I [TS]

  mean in 10 years the people who run this [TS]

  ship are going to be applying to a [TS]

  different government in a different time [TS]

  in a different area to a different [TS]

  funding body saying can we have 20 [TS]

  million dollars for our penguin research [TS]

  aboard the botty mcboatface and I think [TS]

  and I think and that's going to hurt [TS]

  them [TS]

  that's gonna hurt him because of a jokey [TS]

  decision that's made now whereas if they [TS]

  said can we will it hurt them though I [TS]

  don't think that's a guaranteed thing i [TS]

  don't know i think could I think I think [TS]

  people who bequeathed large sums of [TS]

  money and her allocate funds are drawn [TS]

  to integrity and seriousness more than [TS]

  they are to joke eNOS and and flippant [TS]

  things and I think labeling at boaty [TS]

  mcboatface for all time will always be a [TS]

  bit of a wink-wink [TS]

  are they serious but don't you want to [TS]

  stand out in the application pile i [TS]

  think that the legitimate argument well [TS]

  yeah you could stand out in the [TS]

  application power by dressing up as a [TS]

  clown as well standing out doesn't [TS]

  always mean success [TS]

  nope sure doesn't I do see the other [TS]

  argument I do i do think go with it [TS]

  might mind over all things considered I [TS]

  don't say roll with it [TS]

  not such a bad name that it's gonna hurt [TS]

  you forever it's not like you know they [TS]

  said that's called the Adolf Hitler yeah [TS]

  but but i do even even the adults Hitler [TS]

  I would feel like you got off lucky [TS]

  right yeah well I could have said [TS]

  something else but i probably contravene [TS]

  some of my yeah i mean that we're [TS]

  policies like yeah he could be called [TS]

  like the cup make peace with yourself [TS]

  but right like that's what I could [TS]

  recall i think it is you feel quite sure [TS]

  of baits for the episode there [TS]

  yeah like that could easily happen right [TS]

  it easily I do have some sympathy for [TS]

  putting your foot down and saying no [TS]

  we're going to have a we're going to [TS]

  have a more dignified night one of the [TS]

  best suggestions i read was someone [TS]

  saying [TS]

  because it's not actually about anyway [TS]

  but it does have like a little small [TS]

  boat on it presumably to go into a [TS]

  little coastal runs to go and see the [TS]

  Penguins like the captain's yacht and [TS]

  star trek basically yeah call the little [TS]

  mini-boat boaty mcboatface and give the [TS]

  big ship not shipping mixture place but [TS]

  it happened like like it give the big [TS]

  ship it's dignified name but at least to [TS]

  do a nod to boaty mcboatface by calling [TS]

  the small one that which I thought was [TS]

  not a bad compromise [TS]

  now now now now but now it doesn't don't [TS]

  compromise no compromise don't accept [TS]

  that internet I'm actually talking [TS]

  myself out of calling a boaty mcboatface [TS]

  now i can i can hear it in your voice as [TS]

  you go on this is what happens like you [TS]

  you initially take the other side is the [TS]

  devil's advocate and then you suddenly [TS]

  find yourself on the other side but this [TS]

  is what makes you good at your job [TS]

  I'm very persuasive great i can even [TS]

  save myself after much to it and [TS]

  throwing and spiking a nun spiking you [TS]

  did do you your encryption Apple hacking [TS]

  I phony videos i did United that there [TS]

  were there was a bit of anguish about [TS]

  this [TS]

  there was no vanquished about this even [TS]

  as you fight if you thought i should go [TS]

  ahead with making the video we're not [TS]

  know no you haven't you even gave me a [TS]

  sneaky look at a script yeah I wanted [TS]

  your input on it you talked you told me [TS]

  to go ahead a bunch of people told me to [TS]

  go ahead [TS]

  go ahead [TS]

  so yes I i did make it despite several [TS]

  weeks ago the case that brought this up [TS]

  originally was this whole like Apple [TS]

  versus the FBI thing with the FBI wanted [TS]

  Apple to open up their phone and make a [TS]

  bunch of data available and it's like [TS]

  it's a whole big complicated thing with [TS]

  tons of details that don't really matter [TS]

  but i was working on a script about that [TS]

  and then that whole thing just ended and [TS]

  i thought like oh well this is over and [TS]

  then I thought the script was kind of [TS]

  useless after that point but the story [TS]

  is not over and I i did end up [TS]

  continuing to work on it thanks partly [TS]

  to the encouragement of you and some [TS]

  other people and so yeah I put two [TS]

  videos of which are sort of about the [TS]

  Apple FBI thing without ever mentioning [TS]

  the Apple or the FBI thing because I [TS]

  think there's a there's a much bigger [TS]

  question here which is about encryption [TS]

  just in general I have two questions [TS]

  great em both of them will portray [TS]

  perhaps ignorance in the subject that's [TS]

  okay i buy revel in my ignorance [TS]

  the first one is about this warrants and [TS]

  searching because obviously there is [TS]

  this different situation that like you [TS]

  know judge can issue a warrant and the [TS]

  police can break your door down and [TS]

  search your house if you if you if you [TS]

  don't let them in [TS]

  what's the situation with phones in [TS]

  terms of if you were still alive who and [TS]

  the judge said the police have the right [TS]

  to look into cgp grace phone [TS]

  great please enter the code so the [TS]

  police can look em presumably you can be [TS]

  compelled to do that under and if you [TS]

  don't know put you in prison for [TS]

  contempt of court like I'm assuming they [TS]

  can still do that because also they do [TS]

  that with you know when people were [TS]

  texting while they were driving and [TS]

  things like that are what's the what's [TS]

  the law there i'm not talking about [TS]

  Apple breaking into the fine which i [TS]

  think is very different [TS]

  yeah the different that's a different [TS]

  question what's the situation with [TS]

  compelling use the phone owner to [TS]

  presumably that's like any other warrant [TS]

  and a judge can do that [TS]

  the answer is it depends on where you [TS]

  live yeah and so if we take where we are [TS]

  right now in the United Kingdom the [TS]

  United Kingdom has written into the lot [TS]

  that they can compel you to reveal the [TS]

  passwords to your devices right so if [TS]

  you're involved in a trial in the UK [TS]

  they can say open up your phone and if [TS]

  you say no there are criminal penalties [TS]

  force [TS]

  a no-no that's its time in prison you're [TS]

  in contempt of the coal crackling enjoy [TS]

  your time in solitary until you open [TS]

  this phone like that that's what's going [TS]

  to happen you have to choose not to but [TS]

  they're going to compel you [TS]

  yeah now what I think is of a very [TS]

  interesting unique and I think important [TS]

  part of the US legal system is this [TS]

  protection against self-incrimination [TS]

  now yeah some other places have this but [TS]

  the United States has a particularly [TS]

  strong version of this we're essentially [TS]

  like the court cannot compel you to [TS]

  speak or to act and so in the United [TS]

  States if you have a phone and they say [TS]

  open up this phone you are legally [TS]

  allowed to just sit there and do nothing [TS]

  you don't have to comply and they cannot [TS]

  punish you for non-compliance around and [TS]

  so this places the burden on the state [TS]

  to prove things like you are you cannot [TS]

  incriminate yourself and I think that's [TS]

  where a lot of the really interesting [TS]

  parts around this issue turn my [TS]

  understanding i might not be one hundred [TS]

  percent accurate about this my [TS]

  understanding though is that there is a [TS]

  little wrinkle with the fingerprint [TS]

  sensor that police in the united states [TS]

  can compel you to like touch the [TS]

  fingerprint sensor there's like there's [TS]

  something about this we're like the [TS]

  police are allowed to put the phone [TS]

  against your finger and that doesn't [TS]

  actually count as compelling you to do [TS]

  anything right and so like the [TS]

  fingerprint sensor is like a is a bit of [TS]

  a weird loophole in this so there are [TS]

  ways that they can try to legally get [TS]

  into your phone but they can't they [TS]

  can't make you reveal the password which [TS]

  there there's some interesting [TS]

  consequences to both sides of these for [TS]

  example i think the right to be able to [TS]

  remain silent [TS]

  I really think that should be part of [TS]

  every legal system because one of the [TS]

  things that I don't like about the UK [TS]

  system where they can compel you to [TS]

  speak is that you can end up in [TS]

  situations where you are trapped so I [TS]

  mean let's say that the police [TS]

  read your home and within your computer [TS]

  file somewhere is an encrypted file that [TS]

  you don't know anything about that you [TS]

  like you downloaded from somewhere like [TS]

  some malware put on your computer or [TS]

  whatever you can be in a situation where [TS]

  they want to compel you to open that [TS]

  file and it's like I can't I don't know [TS]

  the password then like well we're gonna [TS]

  make you think about that like go ahead [TS]

  and sit in prison until you're able to [TS]

  open up this file i don't like the even [TS]

  the legal possibility of of a situation [TS]

  like that occurring I don't think that's [TS]

  a good thing to have in a legal system [TS]

  that a person is required to perform an [TS]

  action in order to not be in prison i'm [TS]

  very strongly on the opposite side like [TS]

  the burden should be on the state to do [TS]

  everything to prove your guilt not the [TS]

  other way around like I don't like [TS]

  making things super easy for the [TS]

  government to put people in prison I [TS]

  think it definitionally should be a [TS]

  difficult thing I'm sure I've seen lots [TS]

  of American TV shows where people put in [TS]

  prison for being in contempt of court [TS]

  until they cough up the name or they [TS]

  cough up a source or something so surely [TS]

  there are some situations in America [TS]

  where they compel people to do things [TS]

  well I know you shouldn't base your [TS]

  knowledge of the lower on American TV [TS]

  shows but i'm going to guess most of [TS]

  those cases have to do with a horrible [TS]

  horrible plea bargaining system that [TS]

  occurs in the united states there are [TS]

  many ways in which you can be held in [TS]

  prison like awaiting a trial and then [TS]

  there's this whole question about like [TS]

  what counts as a speedy trial in the [TS]

  United States how long can they keep you [TS]

  just waiting around like I think there's [TS]

  certainly an amount of of wiggle room [TS]

  about that i'm just talking about the [TS]

  situation like when you get to a trial [TS]

  like a trial is occurring what can [TS]

  happen in in that scenario but in the [TS]

  u.s. like his kidney to do something [TS]

  about this but it's it is a horrible [TS]

  situation like very very few cases ever [TS]

  make it to trial they are all handled in [TS]

  this very very high stakes [TS]

  confrontational high-pressure plea [TS]

  bargain kind of way where a lot of the [TS]

  normal protections just don't work [TS]

  because you're like bargaining with [TS]

  lawyers so I think I imagine like that's [TS]

  what you're thinking about that's what's [TS]

  occurring there [TS]

  another thing about your video on [TS]

  encryption that struck me who was a kind [TS]

  of not that it was your job to question [TS]

  but you can't have had an unquestioning [TS]

  faith in the integrity of encryption and [TS]

  I don't know whether that's founded on [TS]

  and I know that how how safe is you know [TS]

  mathematical encryption I mean you know [TS]

  I've done videos about and I'm i'm aware [TS]

  of some of the things involved and the [TS]

  prime numbers and and how it works and [TS]

  things but you know with that we don't [TS]

  know where quantum computing is really [TS]

  at yea yea and things like that so i [TS]

  mean hell with you you're assuming a lot [TS]

  about the integrity of encryption when [TS]

  you're making your arguments to do [TS]

  question that in your head there there [TS]

  is a brief moment in the video in one of [TS]

  the slides where I make a reference to [TS]

  on the screen there's a visual reference [TS]

  to quantum computing just messin all of [TS]

  this up because I didn't want to kind of [TS]

  get it on record like I acknowledge [TS]

  there are future technological problems [TS]

  that may undo all of our current state [TS]

  of of encryption they may actually end [TS]

  up introducing with quantum computing [TS]

  greater levels of encryption but we can [TS]

  certainly say like stuff encrypted today [TS]

  could be quite trivial for a quantum [TS]

  computer years from now to unencrypt [TS]

  like that we may very well be in that [TS]

  case but there's two things that are [TS]

  going on here like one is just this idea [TS]

  of as a person can you encrypt data on [TS]

  your computer in such a way so that no [TS]

  one can practically access it and the [TS]

  answer to that is yes because as far as [TS]

  we know unless the NSA has some secret [TS]

  quantum computer somewhere they're not [TS]

  telling us about like an individual on [TS]

  their own computer can encrypt files in [TS]

  a way that it makes them essentially [TS]

  unavailable for the rest of time [TS]

  presuming no massive technological [TS]

  changes [TS]

  and I think that's like that's a really [TS]

  interesting fact and i was trying [TS]

  forever to come up with an analogy to [TS]

  explain like how is this the case [TS]

  because when people think about like [TS]

  locking something away fundamentally [TS]

  what you're doing is you are putting a [TS]

  thing in a container and you're trying [TS]

  to make the container really secure but [TS]

  the thing is still inside the container [TS]

  but the way encryption works is it's [TS]

  like well if you encrypt if you [TS]

  encrypted drive on your computer [TS]

  it's almost like the data isn't there on [TS]

  the drive anymore until you enter the [TS]

  password to like she move all of the [TS]

  bits back around into a readable fashion [TS]

  so it's it's not like someone can crack [TS]

  into it like you can break into a safe [TS]

  and retrieve the thing like encryption [TS]

  because of the magic of mathematics like [TS]

  it makes this stuff not there until the [TS]

  password is provided like there's [TS]

  there's nothing to break you're [TS]

  splitting hairs now that I mean that's [TS]

  like if I had a completely unbreakable [TS]

  safe with a million dollars and I could [TS]

  say well the million dollars isn't [TS]

  really there because the skin is an [TS]

  unbreakable safe but there's no physical [TS]

  say that you could build its unbreakable [TS]

  well you could argue there's no form of [TS]

  encryption of the data that's [TS]

  unbreakable to I don't know but see this [TS]

  is your assumption you're so now but [TS]

  that encryption is unbreakable [TS]

  I am saying that like my understanding [TS]

  of this is that if if you if you [TS]

  encrypted drive it with a secure enough [TS]

  password [TS]

  the only way to get that password is to [TS]

  brute force it and like all of the [TS]

  computing technology in the world will [TS]

  not let you do that [TS]

  basically you're saying to me you do [TS]

  have faith in modern encryption barring [TS]

  people having password 123 or right yeah [TS]

  I think stupid you do have faith in [TS]

  encryption but and fair enough fair [TS]

  enough maybe you're right maybe I don't [TS]

  know that encryption i guess a bit of an [TS]

  elephant in the room and I don't know if [TS]

  more has come out about this or you you [TS]

  have your own theory but the the FBI did [TS]

  suddenly saying this said their do you [TS]

  know San Bernardino case ma'am they [TS]

  suddenly said I we've got into the phone [TS]

  now I had to get into it so this is the [TS]

  it the other issue that i'm not touching [TS]

  on in the video because I'm trying to [TS]

  keep it like oh we're in the Platonic [TS]

  ideal of encrypting a phone right like [TS]

  that that is the realm in which my video [TS]

  exists [TS]

  yeah right but there is a totally [TS]

  separate unrelated issue which is how [TS]

  secure can a particular company make a [TS]

  particular model of phone and that is [TS]

  the question which i'm not talking about [TS]

  because the answer is like there have [TS]

  been tons of security exploits with [TS]

  apple stuff and android phones over the [TS]

  years and various models of phones like [TS]

  they are no stranger to various ways of [TS]

  people breaking into their particular [TS]

  phones right like that that definitely [TS]

  exists and apple overtime has i will [TS]

  just speak about because that's the one [TS]

  I'm more familiar with but Apple [TS]

  overtime has tried to increase the [TS]

  security of their phones and if you want [TS]

  to read a document which I think exists [TS]

  at the intersection of fascinating and [TS]

  deadly boring apple makes a lot of their [TS]

  security documents available online and [TS]

  i was reading through a bunch of these [TS]

  where they talk about how their security [TS]

  systems work and like they have such a [TS]

  difficult problem because the example i [TS]

  was using before where you are an [TS]

  individual on your own computer [TS]

  attempting to encrypt your own files [TS]

  against very straightforward you can do [TS]

  that with with available software but [TS]

  Apple is in this difficult position of [TS]

  like they want to sell you a device that [TS]

  they want to be able to remotely update [TS]

  to make changes to write and in which [TS]

  you are also going to put on your data [TS]

  like that's an incredibly difficult [TS]

  thing to do like they want your data to [TS]

  be secure on the phone while also they [TS]

  have the ability to remotely change the [TS]

  software on the phone like it never [TS]

  really occurred to me before reading [TS]

  through some of the security documents [TS]

  but that is a hell of a hard problem to [TS]

  solve and it's fascinating like all of [TS]

  the ways that they have tried to go [TS]

  about this like they you know each phone [TS]

  has like this randomly burned in series [TS]

  of on and off transistors that are [TS]

  use is like this local thing to encrypt [TS]

  the files and they combine that with [TS]

  like data from your fingerprint like [TS]

  they do they are doing so much crazy [TS]

  stuff to try to prevent them prevent [TS]

  Apple to prevent anybody else from being [TS]

  able to access the data on the phone [TS]

  except you and it's so hard especially [TS]

  when you consider like most people are [TS]

  using a 4-digit pin on their phone [TS]

  so it's it's a fascinating problem that [TS]

  they have but because their situation is [TS]

  not straightforward because they are [TS]

  putting out into the world these phones [TS]

  that they also want some level of access [TS]

  to this is one of the reasons why there [TS]

  are particular security flaws in the [TS]

  phones that do allow people to get [TS]

  access like Apple tries to fix them as [TS]

  much as they can they're always trying [TS]

  to make the phones more secure with each [TS]

  generation but they're they're just [TS]

  doing a thing that's going to be [TS]

  fundamentally flawed in some scenarios [TS]

  and so again I don't really want to get [TS]

  into someone like the details of this [TS]

  particular case but i'll just say that [TS]

  like it came up because that particular [TS]

  phone the iphone 5c had some particular [TS]

  security flaws that the FBI wanted Apple [TS]

  to exploit right and that had been a [TS]

  newer phone like oh we we solve those [TS]

  security problems that can no longer be [TS]

  fixed the this to me is two different [TS]

  questions like is encryption a thing [TS]

  that that exists that can be [TS]

  theoretically unbreakable [TS]

  yes can Apple make a phone that is [TS]

  perfectly always unbreakable in all [TS]

  scenarios the answer the questions so [TS]

  far is like no but they're always [TS]

  getting better at that like they're [TS]

  trying to move more and more toward that [TS]

  direction like they they are clearly [TS]

  trying to close off more and more of [TS]

  people's data from themselves from [TS]

  anybody being able to access it but I [TS]

  really think those are two very [TS]

  different questions this episode of [TS]

  Hello internet is brought to you by [TS]

  backblaze which again quite frankly I'm [TS]

  always a little bit surprised that back [TS]

  plays keeps buying these ads because it [TS]

  means that you listeners there are still [TS]

  so many of you who keeps signing up with [TS]

  backblaze [TS]

  because you are living with unprotected [TS]

  data just sitting on your hard drives [TS]

  waiting to disappear at any moment I [TS]

  don't know how many times I have to keep [TS]

  telling you if if you don't have online [TS]

  backup you are crazy you are just living [TS]

  a wild reckless life inviting digital [TS]

  disaster in if this is you go to [TS]

  backpage.com / hello internet right now [TS]

  and sign up for unlimited on throttle [TS]

  back up for just five dollars a month [TS]

  these guys are the total experts they [TS]

  have over 150 petabytes of data backed [TS]

  up they restored 10 billion files for [TS]

  their customers if you're away from your [TS]

  computer and you need to just get access [TS]

  to one file this is something that you [TS]

  can totally do I have done this so many [TS]

  times for video projects that i have [TS]

  archived on this huge hard drive that [TS]

  sitting next to me here now [TS]

  that stuff's not in my regular sinking [TS]

  system but i can get access to it [TS]

  through backblaze if I'm somewhere else [TS]

  and I need to get an asset file from a [TS]

  video it's just it's fantastic [TS]

  now since we've been talking about [TS]

  encryption one of the little features [TS]

  that backblaze has is if you are [TS]

  extremely concerned about your digital [TS]

  security in the way that I am [TS]

  backblaze has the option where if you [TS]

  know what you're doing you can enter a [TS]

  private encryption key [TS]

  this means that all of the data that's [TS]

  uploaded to backblaze even if say oh I [TS]

  don't know some government issued a [TS]

  warrant saying that they wanted access [TS]

  to all of your digital backups there's [TS]

  nothing backblaze can give them they can [TS]

  hand over the encrypted files but tough [TS]

  luck [TS]

  now this is for experts only if you are [TS]

  going to enable this feature you really [TS]

  better know what you're doing because if [TS]

  you lose your private encryption key and [TS]

  your house burns down and as I have [TS]

  learned disasters always come in more [TS]

  than one you are going to be totally out [TS]

  of luck you will not be able to restore [TS]

  your files there is nothing backblaze is [TS]

  going to be able to help you with that [TS]

  is the flipside of security but i really [TS]

  like that back plays even has this as [TS]

  an option for the super duper privacy [TS]

  concerned once again it just shows these [TS]

  guys are pros [TS]

  again I cannot emphasize this enough if [TS]

  you are still listening to me and you [TS]

  don't have online backup on your [TS]

  computer you need to go to backpage.com [TS]

  / hello internet right now and sign up [TS]

  for their five dollars a month per [TS]

  computer for unlimited on throttled back [TS]

  up their trial is risk free no credit [TS]

  card required you have nothing to lose [TS]

  except all of your data if you don't [TS]

  sign up thanks to backblaze for [TS]

  supporting the show you said one other [TS]

  thing in your second video which unless [TS]

  i misunderstood [TS]

  mmm i disagree with in your second video [TS]

  about how important our phones are to us [TS]

  know you made it you made the point that [TS]

  given the choice between allowing [TS]

  someone to read your mind or read [TS]

  through all the contents of your find em [TS]

  you think reading the mind is the better [TS]

  option [TS]

  I think under certain circumstances yes [TS]

  yeah I do think that I think that's only [TS]

  true under very very limited [TS]

  circumstances and I like I can't agree [TS]

  with you I think that was a slightly [TS]

  inflammatory and ridiculous thing to say [TS]

  why do you think it's ridiculous because [TS]

  someone being able to read all the [TS]

  contents of your mind is far more [TS]

  revealing and potentially damaging and [TS]

  i'm assuming damage limitation was the [TS]

  premise of the question and far more [TS]

  damaging than someone reading the [TS]

  contents of your phone and I think you [TS]

  agree because yeah you have that sound [TS]

  about you i'm trying to think about how [TS]

  to have to bring a brady over to my side [TS]

  here era but i think this is there's a [TS]

  fundamental problem which is that I am a [TS]

  very present and future oriented person [TS]

  and I think you are much more of a past [TS]

  oriented person [TS]

  and i have a hell of a hard time [TS]

  remembering lots of things in my own [TS]

  life I think this is so much stuff that [TS]

  I just forget all the time like my wife [TS]

  constantly comments on this about how [TS]

  things that happened a year ago from my [TS]

  perspective it's like they never [TS]

  happened ever like wet when did this [TS]

  occur i have no idea [TS]

  and so I feel like my mind might be [TS]

  particularly perhaps unusually devoid of [TS]

  records right this is not the whole lot [TS]

  stored in there that it's much more like [TS]

  oh what's going on right now of course [TS]

  like people have thoughts like there are [TS]

  things that you don't want other people [TS]

  to like hear that you're the butt of [TS]

  course the sub focalized voice in your [TS]

  head is is talking all the time now but [TS]

  I can honestly say that would I rather [TS]

  have someone read my mind or read my [TS]

  phone i think i would rather have [TS]

  someone read my mind [TS]

  your phone has just so many records of [TS]

  absolutely everything in your life that [TS]

  you don't even know what's in your phone [TS]

  like what would embarrassing stuff isn't [TS]

  that's crazy great that's crazy [TS]

  let me let you look at the extreme [TS]

  criminal example fair strap say you were [TS]

  accused of some terrible heist in whom [TS]

  the diamond heist in the centre of [TS]

  London and the police have got you in a [TS]

  cell and I say gray can we read your [TS]

  mind or can we read your phone [TS]

  well have I committed the heist yes [TS]

  you've committed the whole cast of [TS]

  computerized the communities like this [TS]

  is overhead what's the situation here [TS]

  that you could now you're not going to [TS]

  forget that you committed the highest [TS]

  you might you might forget where you [TS]

  were on april two 2014 when you met with [TS]

  me to Planet em but you're not gonna [TS]

  forget you did it so when they use their [TS]

  incredible mind-reading probe that [TS]

  borrowed from death theta mu they're [TS]

  gonna know straight away they're gonna [TS]

  say the first thing i'll ask you this [TS]

  did you do the highest your brain will [TS]

  say yes and and then you're after jail [TS]

  it was awful [TS]

  yeah whereas it's very unlikely you have [TS]

  written in your phone i did the highest [TS]

  there'll be lots and lots of evidence i [TS]

  was at this place at this time I was at [TS]

  this place at this time [TS]

  here are the blueprints of the building [TS]

  here at here or this his discussion [TS]

  about where Atkins here's me looking at [TS]

  websites about selling diamonds [TS]

  there's gonna be a ton of circumstance [TS]

  actual evidence that they can use to [TS]

  build up the case against you but [TS]

  nothing more powerful than your brain [TS]

  just saying yes i did a little like with [TS]

  this perfect breeding machine so [TS]

  straightaway [TS]

  I've got you by reading in mind [TS]

  regardless of all this evidence and also [TS]

  so I think the criminal example just [TS]

  folks to pieces because no one forgets [TS]

  their criminal and I and just to be [TS]

  clear i agree with you there [TS]

  i I'm not gonna I'm not gonna take the [TS]

  opposite position that like if I am [TS]

  actually a diamond hyster then yes I [TS]

  would rather have someone look at the [TS]

  phone then have my own brain and play [TS]

  back the memory of like here's me doing [TS]

  this diamond heights now let's say [TS]

  you're talking about like just your [TS]

  friend like are you going to let me read [TS]

  your mind gray or are you gonna let me [TS]

  look at your fine and if i look at your [TS]

  phone I'll see all the texts and emails [TS]

  you sent to your friends and family [TS]

  saying our brain is really pissing me [TS]

  off today and they're all those [TS]

  embarrassing things right that you don't [TS]

  want me to say and you've even feel and [TS]

  you forgotten you even set the right of [TS]

  course like you you forgotten someday [TS]

  you pissed off at me two years ago it [TS]

  would be really embarrassing if I then [TS]

  read it because you don't even feel that [TS]

  way anymore you but I still think it's [TS]

  much more damaging if I'm able to go [TS]

  into your brain and find out your true [TS]

  real feelings like I don't like the way [TS]

  he looks so I don't like the way he [TS]

  smells or you know because that's also [TS]

  more truth if i look at your phone I'll [TS]

  have my feelings hurt but at least I [TS]

  could tell myself I would like that was [TS]

  two years ago and I was big bit of a [TS]

  dick that day so fair enough but if i [TS]

  can go straight into your brain and know [TS]

  your innermost feelings and your deepest [TS]

  thoughts that's much more potentially [TS]

  hurtful or private and sure you can't [TS]

  remember little details but that's the [TS]

  core of who you are in your brain and [TS]

  you can tell me it changes over time and [TS]

  that but i think that's much more [TS]

  damaging our can't see a circumstance [TS]

  where I think being able to read my mind [TS]

  would be less damaging than being able [TS]

  to read my fine i certainly don't want [TS]

  people to read my phone will and you're [TS]

  right i forgot her more than half the [TS]

  stuff in it and it would be really [TS]

  embarrassing but being able to get into [TS]

  my brain [TS]

  we're all my deepest darkest thoughts [TS]

  are things I would never even right into [TS]

  a phone and [TS]

  I don't want people going in there so no [TS]

  I I genuinely feel if we were sitting at [TS]

  the pub and I could hand you my phone or [TS]

  hand you my brain I'd rather hand you my [TS]

  brain [TS]

  it's pretty interesting guy I feel like [TS]

  yeah go ahead look through like [TS]

  obviously they'd be embarrassing stuff [TS]

  in my brain but I feel like the the [TS]

  phone you know again assuming that you [TS]

  were able to like understand everything [TS]

  on the phone in the same way that you [TS]

  are able to understand everything on the [TS]

  brain i feel like there's potentially [TS]

  way worse stuff on the phone that I [TS]

  can't even remember or think about it [TS]

  like you said stuff that is not even [TS]

  relevance now but could somehow be [TS]

  damaging like it just feels like there's [TS]

  so much more potential there then like [TS]

  what's in my brain now like no I'm not a [TS]

  whole lot i don't agree because with [TS]

  this braid with this hypothetical [TS]

  operating that were talking about [TS]

  appreciating I can I can you know [TS]

  interrogate you for what I want like [TS]

  your opinions and feelings I am [TS]

  presuming that i'm presuming that you [TS]

  would have access to the state of my [TS]

  brain in the same way that i have access [TS]

  to the state of my brain [TS]

  surely that's more damaging because I [TS]

  could find out really personal things [TS]

  about you that you would never have [TS]

  committed to your phone before [TS]

  yeah but i don't know like did years ago [TS]

  me commit really personal stuff to my [TS]

  phone [TS]

  I don't know possibly probably i don't [TS]

  know i'm not saying there's none of that [TS]

  there of course there's gonna be tons [TS]

  and tons of it but not more than the [TS]

  ability for me just to read your mind [TS]

  and find out what you think about [TS]

  everything I guess what I feel here is [TS]

  like I am more confident in the limited [TS]

  content of my brain that I am in the [TS]

  what seems like near-infinite content of [TS]

  my phone it's almost like a devil you [TS]

  know vs devil you don't know situation [TS]

  here and if you like the phone is the [TS]

  devil i don't know like dear god what [TS]

  did I type into that thing three years [TS]

  ago I have no idea but let's not let [TS]

  anybody look at that I don't even want [TS]

  to look at that I'd enough i should read [TS]

  into this that you're actually just a [TS]

  really really lovely person in your [TS]

  brain or that you're really really [TS]

  worried about what you would like a few [TS]

  years ago [TS]

  let me ask you something else about that [TS]

  though era because all of this the [TS]

  encryption stuff or like reading your [TS]

  mind reading your phone [TS]

  I feel like this is all a sideshow in [TS]

  the same way that like the star trek [TS]

  video was all like a sideshow to what i [TS]

  thought was the actual point what do you [TS]

  think about taking the phone or other [TS]

  digital devices in your life and [TS]

  considering them in a legal sense as an [TS]

  extension of the self within and here i [TS]

  want to say like let's talk about this [TS]

  in the context of American law or like [TS]

  you are not obligated to incriminate [TS]

  yourself and so in some sense like that [TS]

  is legal protection for the state of [TS]

  your brain [TS]

  what what do you think about [TS]

  establishing some kind of legal [TS]

  precedent to say like we are going to [TS]

  decide that a person's phone is like an [TS]

  off-board brain and this is legally [TS]

  protected as part of the self in the [TS]

  same way that we protect people's brains [TS]

  as part of the self or interesting i [TS]

  think my first instinct is no because [TS]

  everything going into your phone is [TS]

  still a document that paperwork who like [TS]

  every every photo and just because we're [TS]

  becoming a lot more prolific with their [TS]

  creation of the paperwork doesn't make [TS]

  them it's not paperwork so my first [TS]

  instinct is now these are all still [TS]

  these are also documents that can be [TS]

  treated as separate from who we are [TS]

  whether or not that means everyone [TS]

  should you know whether or not it may [TS]

  just open season on people saying them [TS]

  is another question but it's also [TS]

  questionable about the paper i have in [TS]

  my cupboard you know not everyone can [TS]

  look at that other right but we're [TS]

  talking about it i got like in illegal [TS]

  contact here right that we can just say [TS]

  that you are falsely accused of a crime [TS]

  but none-the-less like there is a new [TS]

  somehow live in America but nonetheless [TS]

  there's a warrant to seize all of all of [TS]

  your documents right and and then the [TS]

  question I think is like does that [TS]

  include all of the documents on your [TS]

  phone or is it just limited to the [TS]

  documents in your house like how how far [TS]

  can that go [TS]

  I guess the phone could start becoming [TS]

  quite handy refuge of the criminal [TS]

  couldn't because phone so powerful now [TS]

  and could hold so much that [TS]

  you just do everything with your phone [TS]

  and put everything in your phone [TS]

  comfortable in the knowledge that it [TS]

  could never be scrutinized no matter [TS]

  what you do [TS]

  so what you can do that with your own [TS]

  brain now right like you know I'm sure [TS]

  criminals in the past they have the [TS]

  option of not committing things to paper [TS]

  yeah I don't think criminals could use a [TS]

  thing it to me is always one like the [TS]

  worst argument ever look good there we [TS]

  have tools and criminals can use tools [TS]

  but tools are still good we don't ban [TS]

  tools of any kind [TS]

  it's true i'm only asking because i [TS]

  think this is the part of the video but [TS]

  we also don't we also don't ban the [TS]

  police from the fingerprinting those [TS]

  tools are checking the bloodstains on [TS]

  the master crimes committed right right [TS]

  and and i think that's that's where this [TS]

  this balance comes in right of how much [TS]

  power do we grant to authorities where [TS]

  do we set the boundaries of personal [TS]

  liberty like what [TS]

  where is that edge that the reason I [TS]

  think this is so important is is just go [TS]

  back to the mind-reading [TS]

  ever-so-slightly I don't think that we [TS]

  live in a world where it is unreasonable [TS]

  to expect that at some point we really [TS]

  will be able to build essentially [TS]

  mind-reading machines right or close [TS]

  enough and then and then I think like [TS]

  boy the American legal system has a [TS]

  really interesting question their of if [TS]

  we legally protect your right to not say [TS]

  anything does that but do we legally [TS]

  protect your right to not be in a brain [TS]

  scanner that's an interesting question [TS]

  am I my gut reaction is that protection [TS]

  against self-incrimination should extend [TS]

  to the mind just in general so that in [TS]

  the future scenario where we do have a [TS]

  brain reading machine [TS]

  you should not be able to compel someone [TS]

  to go in a brain reading machine i think [TS]

  that counts of self-incrimination [TS]

  yeah that was the most hesitant yes in [TS]

  the world do you think so do you not [TS]

  think so are we assuming a completely [TS]

  flawless braiding machine [TS]

  let's assume that it actually works [TS]

  right it it works as well as as someone [TS]

  reading a piece of paper works i guess [TS]

  it comes down to whether or not you [TS]

  think the the system is this legal [TS]

  systems main goal [TS]

  is to establish truth and then executes [TS]

  justice or to protect people from [TS]

  getting themselves in trouble and if [TS]

  you've got an absolutely perfect perfect [TS]

  hundred percent platonic brain reading [TS]

  machine wooooo [TS]

  well that's the end of course isn't like [TS]

  words did you killer well that's that [TS]

  said let's find out [TS]

  perfect range machine yes i did killer [TS]

  here's the circumstances [TS]

  what you gonna do about it what's [TS]

  justice and the only reason to sort of [TS]

  protect the rights of the people from [TS]

  self-incriminating is floors in the [TS]

  legal system but you've given me a [TS]

  flawless machine to find out what [TS]

  happened i don't actually agree that a [TS]

  perfect mind reading machine would be [TS]

  the end of the legal system are you to [TS]

  also talking about false memories or [TS]

  because people can be wrong about the [TS]

  state of their own mind while they're ok [TS]

  I was sort of my platonic machine had [TS]

  gotten around that problem right yeah [TS]

  yeah but now you're just talking about a [TS]

  magic machine right beginning that [TS]

  people are are often wrong about the [TS]

  state of of their own yet right which is [TS]

  which starts get you into such strange [TS]

  things and you know and it's one of [TS]

  these cases where when high-profile [TS]

  crimes occur it is not unusual for [TS]

  police to get tons of just confessions [TS]

  from people or places like oh I did this [TS]

  crime [TS]

  oh no you didn't you just crazy right [TS]

  here a lunatic you think you did this [TS]

  but you didn't do this so yeah machine [TS]

  isn't magic but it is a perfect brain [TS]

  reading machine and that's a different [TS]

  thing I mean what a perfect legal at [TS]

  justice system create a situation where [TS]

  people didn't remain silent everyone [TS]

  just calmly without pressure told what [TS]

  they think their version of the stories [TS]

  and then people came to decisions i mean [TS]

  this current situation where people can [TS]

  just keep don't and not incriminate [TS]

  himself who is is there to protect them [TS]

  from all of the pressures that are there [TS]

  and all the floors in the legal system [TS]

  there so with a more idealized ecosystem [TS]

  not have people remaining silent they [TS]

  would tell their version of events and [TS]

  then this amazing judge would hear [TS]

  everyone's version of events told calmly [TS]

  and rationally and fairly and can weigh [TS]

  them and look at the evidence [TS]

  it feels like the people's right to [TS]

  remain silent which I am in favor of who [TS]

  is there because we haven't is there [TS]

  because we have a flawed system who and [TS]

  now York your sort of playing fantasy [TS]

  the ecosystems and removing all the [TS]

  flaws and I think if we have all these [TS]

  floors being removed this right to [TS]

  remain silent [TS]

  I don't see the need for anymore yes I I [TS]

  don't think I'm playing fantasy legal [TS]

  system [TS]

  my concern is that you have a legal [TS]

  system which is still like today you [TS]

  know it's it's it's made of people and [TS]

  you have trials and you have lawyers and [TS]

  have like all these conflicting [TS]

  interests but you just happen to have a [TS]

  piece of technology that allows you to [TS]

  read the thoughts and contents of a [TS]

  person's mind with this with the fluid [TS]

  system just one new piece of technology [TS]

  obviously i think people should still [TS]

  have the right to remain silent [TS]

  ok ok that's yeah okay so i will type [TS]

  sorry i was taking fantasy legal system [TS]

  to extremes that [TS]

  yeah i mean i agree with you in a [TS]

  perfect world we have no problems as I i [TS]

  agree with agree with that point but I'm [TS]

  just thinking like an actual an actual [TS]

  progression of today's technology like [TS]

  that they're there was reading around [TS]

  some people were saying like there's [TS]

  some super interesting stuff about just [TS]

  how the the resolution of brain scanning [TS]

  technology is increasing over time and [TS]

  that there are some extremely [TS]

  rudimentary examples of trying to pull [TS]

  things like color thoughts out of a [TS]

  person's brain like someone's thinking a [TS]

  color like you can identify what color [TS]

  their thinking by brain scan [TS]

  I just some just some really weird stuff [TS]

  like that it's like ok well I can see [TS]

  where this is going like it's not in [TS]

  principle impossible to do so it seems [TS]

  like I think it's inevitable will end up [TS]

  with something that can at least be some [TS]

  kind of brain scanner at some point and [TS]

  that's why i genuinely genuinely worried [TS]

  about this stuff but the but the related [TS]

  thing is this idea about like where does [TS]

  if if as you do you agree that that [TS]

  presume we don't have a perfect legal [TS]

  system there is still room and still [TS]

  reason for the protection against [TS]

  self-incrimination then I also think we [TS]

  are going to very rapidly get into a [TS]

  world where [TS]

  you have to start wondering what are the [TS]

  boundaries of the South right where do [TS]

  we draw that line about what counts as [TS]

  self-incrimination and I thought like it [TS]

  was just by coincidence but people but a [TS]

  bunch of people sent me that the Devi [TS]

  that video went up there was a news [TS]

  story about someone who had a computer [TS]

  chip implanted in their brain that [TS]

  allows them they were an amputee but [TS]

  that allowed them to control of an arm [TS]

  like just with their thoughts and people [TS]

  are pointing out like well that this is [TS]

  actually a super interesting case like [TS]

  could you have a warrant for the [TS]

  information recorded on that computer [TS]

  chip in that person's brain obviously [TS]

  right now it's not storing or recording [TS]

  a lot of information but it's an [TS]

  interesting legal question could you [TS]

  write a warrant to say please turn over [TS]

  the information on that computer chip in [TS]

  that person's brain and like my gut [TS]

  feeling is no like that that chip is [TS]

  part of the self of that person its it [TS]

  is not a separate entity it is not the [TS]

  equivalent of a piece of paper lying on [TS]

  someone's desk I I think that's [TS]

  different and I and I also feel like we [TS]

  use our phones and our digital devices [TS]

  so much now as off-board brains that I i [TS]

  really do think the amount that we use [TS]

  them inches them into this category of [TS]

  legal protection for the sound and I [TS]

  think it's important to set this [TS]

  precedent like for the future i really [TS]

  do think like this is going to be a [TS]

  legal question in some court in some [TS]

  country in the nearish future about [TS]

  trying to subpoena information for a [TS]

  piece of technology that is like in a [TS]

  person is going to happen is going to [TS]

  happen [TS]

  I mean I can't speak to the chip in [TS]

  Chipping the person that is the thing is [TS]

  if I was accused of a crime 15 years ago [TS]

  mhm police could have gone through a few [TS]

  letters and gone through a few photo [TS]

  albums with solid printed photos stuck [TS]

  in them and I wouldn't have found out a [TS]

  lot to help them and now they could go [TS]

  through my phone and find a million [TS]

  photos I've taken everyday wear and look [TS]

  at a million emails i've sent and and [TS]

  look at all my movements and and now a [TS]

  lot more so obviously what's in my phone [TS]

  is a lot more incriminating them what [TS]

  existed 10 years ago [TS]

  hmm the question is at what point did at [TS]

  what point between that scratchy old [TS]

  photo album and the letters and my shiny [TS]

  fine with all the information at what [TS]

  point was the threshold crossed where it [TS]

  became part of me define became part of [TS]

  me I five it's impossible to draw that [TS]

  line to say okay once you go over a [TS]

  thousand photos [TS]

  it's now maybe it's no longer a photo [TS]

  album it's me once you've got over 2000 [TS]

  messages [TS]

  it's no longer documents it's now a part [TS]

  of me you know i don't know where at [TS]

  what point my phone became me this is [TS]

  the classic like where is the boundary [TS]

  problem that you run into a whole lot of [TS]

  stuff there is no good way to answer [TS]

  that question and I think you can make [TS]

  that question way more difficult by [TS]

  imagining a theoretical person who makes [TS]

  a physical copy of every single file [TS]

  that is on their phone right that they [TS]

  are just a tremendous paper hoarder [TS]

  living in a gigantic mansion filled with [TS]

  reams and reams of paper of their GPS [TS]

  coordinates for every second and all of [TS]

  the messages and all of the photos and [TS]

  all of the emails and like you know and [TS]

  how many pages of paper you would need [TS]

  to print out to be the equivalent of [TS]

  like 4k 60 frames per second video [TS]

  they've taken like you can imagine in [TS]

  theory a person living in this mansion [TS]

  with all of this stuff all of this crap [TS]

  and then but my feeling is like over [TS]

  those papers aren't them right that [TS]

  that's my initial feeling even though [TS]

  all of the information would [TS]

  theoretically be the same that somehow [TS]

  like oh but that seems different [TS]

  yeah does that make any sense no that [TS]

  doesn't make any sense at all but my [TS]

  emotional reaction is that it's somehow [TS]

  different when it is all contained on a [TS]

  device that is never far away that is [TS]

  with you all the time that that is [TS]

  different somehow [TS]

  but I'm also willing to accept that we [TS]

  may in the future state look back on [TS]

  this and say oh no the dividing line is [TS]

  when the devices started going in our [TS]

  bodies right that L and iphone obviously [TS]

  the iphone isn't really an extension of [TS]

  the self that which is ridiculous [TS]

  hyperbole but this right this chip in my [TS]

  head which is connected to the internet [TS]

  with which I can store memories and [TS]

  download new thoughts like that chip in [TS]

  my head obviously is part of myself in [TS]

  the way that a phone isn't like maybe [TS]

  that's a more natural more natural [TS]

  boundary that does seem like crossing [TS]

  the threshold into kind of sacred ground [TS]

  doesn't at once it's once it's [TS]

  physically once it's physically touching [TS]

  a at every second [TS]

  maybe that helps maybe that will help [TS]

  draw a line yeah but what if you take an [TS]

  iphone to your head [TS]

  checkmate [TS]