Hello Internet

H.I. #74: Black Mirror Season 3


  I'm reluctantly telling you about a [TS]

  little trial I'm doing at the moment [TS]

  because I don't want to like hurt your [TS]

  feelings or stir you up huh [TS]

  but I just thought you'd find [TS]

  interesting and i also want to find out [TS]

  how you do with these things as well [TS]

  hurt my feelings again immediately [TS]

  concerns raised to maximum if I could [TS]

  free to be talking about we are seven [TS]

  seconds into the podcast and I I'm sorry [TS]

  because now please bear in mind i say [TS]

  this with love in my heart all right [TS]

  ok but like sometimes you are not the [TS]

  easiest person to be friends with [TS]

  oh okay all right and again I say this [TS]

  with love him I how I think you're like [TS]

  a really nice guy and you're very [TS]

  generous and consider a whole but you [TS]

  know that certain types of interactions [TS]

  and certain things about your [TS]

  personality confuse other humans and [TS]

  cause problems and tensions and things [TS]

  like that right but you know that don't [TS]

  you [TS]

  I know some of my interactions confusing [TS]

  Brady that's true yes [TS]

  Yeah right there anyway so sometimes and [TS]

  because of a lot of our interaction is [TS]

  like online like through gmail or [TS]

  particularly three messaging and that [TS]

  blue [TS]

  I mean we joke that sometimes can [TS]

  compound the problem because they can be [TS]

  miscommunications because of lack of [TS]

  body language and nuanced and just [TS]

  having the text there sometimes gets us [TS]

  both very confused haha that's okay i [TS]

  live with it you know and I'm sure you [TS]

  live with it too but I'm trying an [TS]

  experiment okay because i think i've [TS]

  been compounding the problem [TS]

  unnecessarily [TS]

  oh yeah and what I am experimenting with [TS]

  is trying a new icon to represent you on [TS]

  my operating system because it will be [TS]

  no surprise to anyone that I use the [TS]

  cgpgrey I got that you you know he's [TS]

  everywhere it seems obvious that's why [TS]

  would you so everytime message from you [TS]

  comes up that pops the little black [TS]

  circle with a cog honor and the Little [TS]

  flask and to me like that's you [TS]

  the problem with that is and this has [TS]

  always been the way with your [TS]

  representation online [TS]

  not only is anonymous it's kind of a [TS]

  little bit unfriendly [TS]

  because you know its mechanical and [TS]

  scientific and it's very dark and very [TS]

  non-human is this unfriendly I'm not [TS]

  sure I agree with you on that [TS]

  ok I won't call unfriendly but I didn't [TS]

  look all that friendly I think it's very [TS]

  cool and it works really well for your [TS]

  YouTube channel when your twitter and [TS]

  all those things you know I think it's a [TS]

  masterstroke on your behalf but having [TS]

  that come up and look me in the face and [TS]

  have been frustrated by you in some [TS]

  communication [TS]

  mmm i think compounds the problem ok so [TS]

  what I have done in the last week move [TS]

  is I've actually got I've chosen a photo [TS]

  of you when you got a big smile on your [TS]

  face and you look kind of goofy and [TS]

  we're messing around from some photo we [TS]

  took ages ago with a bright color and [TS]

  background and I've made that my icon on [TS]

  my phone for you so every time i get a [TS]

  message from you [TS]

  I've got a big goofy cgpgrey smiling at [TS]

  me out of my phone and I think it just [TS]

  diffuses the tone of whatever's going on [TS]

  all the time I think it's been a [TS]

  masterstroke on my behalf that you think [TS]

  this has been effective [TS]

  yeah i do and i think we should think [TS]

  carefully about the photos and icons [TS]

  were used to represent people living on [TS]

  their phones as we get more and more [TS]

  down this path of interacting with [TS]

  people in this way I think it can make a [TS]

  big difference [TS]

  it obviously has in this case what do [TS]

  you have for me when that message for me [TS]

  comes up I have the picture of you the [TS]

  one looks like it's professionally done [TS]

  from ages ago where you're holding a [TS]

  tiny puppy Audrey that's the one that I [TS]

  have of you you know that was just taken [TS]

  by my wife with an iphone in a kitchen [TS]

  well it's very professional-looking that [TS]

  it's very well done that is the photo [TS]

  that i have a view that is also the [TS]

  photo of you that for some reason keeps [TS]

  replicating itself over and over in my [TS]

  iPhoto library it's like I can't even [TS]

  tweet how many times that happens but [TS]

  it's like that have complained about [TS]

  this on Twitter virus i know i'll get a [TS]

  complaint about it again but for some [TS]

  reason when i open my iPhoto library i'm [TS]

  going to say at least once a month [TS]

  there are hundreds of copies of two [TS]

  images one of which is this photograph [TS]

  of you Brady holding Audrey and the [TS]

  other is a Hitler mean from my reddit [TS]

  video from like three years which is a [TS]

  stupid picture of him [TS]

  ler wearing high socks and looking like [TS]

  an idiot in shorts right it's like I [TS]

  have this Brady Hitler meme thing that [TS]

  just replicates over and over and I am [TS]

  convinced it's getting worse over time [TS]

  that when i opened up my iPhoto library [TS]

  it's like five more every time because [TS]

  now it's like screens and screens that I [TS]

  have to scroll through to get rid of [TS]

  these hundreds and hundreds of photos so [TS]

  how just realizing is I'm saying this [TS]

  out loud while i do think it's a [TS]

  fantastic photograph of you and i have [TS]

  been using it as my contact photo of you [TS]

  for a long time [TS]

  I'm realizing maybe I to also have some [TS]

  negative associations with that [TS]

  particular image and the quite literally [TS]

  thousands of times i have deleted it and [TS]

  it still will not go away so maybe I [TS]

  should select a different photograph of [TS]

  you as well that's going to be some [TS]

  metaphor fair professional relationship [TS]

  yep i don't know what it is but it's got [TS]

  to be something there [TS]

  it's in there somewhere anyway do you [TS]

  have like icons for everyone in your [TS]

  phone like everyone here messages you [TS]

  are most people icon muscle photos so do [TS]

  you attach a person to pretty much [TS]

  everyone who contact you [TS]

  yeah i'll attach a picture i mean the [TS]

  main reason that you need the picture is [TS]

  that you don't accidentally send a [TS]

  message to the wrong person right like [TS]

  what I messaging with your wife and [TS]

  we're talking about you behind your back [TS]

  right slagging you off yeah I don't want [TS]

  to accidentally send a message to you so [TS]

  I have to make sure like there's a clear [TS]

  visual representation of who you're [TS]

  talking to so that's why it like it's [TS]

  everybody has to have a photograph it [TS]

  would be incredibly stressful if they [TS]

  were just the defaults person outline [TS]

  icons that would be no good at all no [TS]

  good it's like initial sometimes the [TS]

  initials of the person isn't so I'd be [TS]

  like eh that's right yeah but that's no [TS]

  good you have to have a photograph do [TS]

  you stuck with it very often that we [TS]

  change the photo of your life like you [TS]

  know once a month or something if you [TS]

  had the same one forever [TS]

  ok so my wife has been getting on my [TS]

  case about this [TS]

  yeah but I use a photograph of her that [TS]

  is at this point eight years old she [TS]

  keeps wanting me to update to a more [TS]

  modern one and even just recently like [TS]

  hopefully sent me a few well posed [TS]

  photographs like you know these could be [TS]

  my contacts what [TS]

  but I feel like I know but that's not [TS]

  you that's the the contact photo that [TS]

  i've been using of you for forever [TS]

  yeah it's just like now this is the [TS]

  digital representation of my wife and [TS]

  yeah even though she doesn't necessarily [TS]

  think it i still think she looks exactly [TS]

  the same i can tell the difference i see [TS]

  no reason to change it changing those [TS]

  pictures is a big deal i have some [TS]

  sympathy with you there I don't change [TS]

  those things easily [TS]

  it's like once it's locked in it becomes [TS]

  like this is not supposed to be a [TS]

  current photo of the person like this is [TS]

  just the shorthand representation of the [TS]

  person but that's why I've had to change [TS]

  yours though I've had to change yours [TS]

  because i'm doing psychological testing [TS]

  on myself I'm saying whether using [TS]

  something a bit more personal and [TS]

  friendly will help defuse the [TS]

  frustration you sometimes inside me i [TS]

  think it's a good idea and also maybe [TS]

  you two should send me some [TS]

  recommendations you might have what i [TS]

  should use for your contact photo i [TS]

  think i think maybe I do have to change [TS]

  my contact photo for you in the system [TS]

  as well because of the deletion [TS]

  associations are gonna shoot this [TS]

  episode of Hello internet is brought to [TS]

  you in part by Harry's the holidays are [TS]

  fast approaching and Harry's knows that [TS]

  finding the perfect gift for some guys [TS]

  is near impossible but with Harry's you [TS]

  can give a gift that is both thoughtful [TS]

  and practical if you haven't heard them [TS]

  before Harry's was started by two best [TS]

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  Jeff and Andy who were fed up with being [TS]

  overcharged for razors so they started [TS]

  their own razor company to give people [TS]

  what they deserve a great shave at a [TS]

  fair price and this holiday Harry's is [TS]

  offering a limited-edition shaving set a [TS]

  midnight blue chrome razor handle which [TS]

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  they are just really well-designed they [TS]

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  guys they're just used to using cheap [TS]

  razor blades and never really think [TS]

  about a very [TS]

  much and so getting someone Harry's gift [TS]

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  not only is it a nice object that you [TS]

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  they're offering free shipping until [TS]

  december nine so act now go to their [TS]

  website enter code [TS]

  eh I check out and get five dollars off [TS]

  thanks so much to harry's for supporting [TS]

  the show so there are many things in [TS]

  life that causing irritation that my own [TS]

  fault [TS]

  who for example the day that I stupidly [TS]

  on hello Internet jokingly told people [TS]

  if they were not on a plane to send me a [TS]

  tweet you deserve every one of those [TS]

  tweets i will regret that forever [TS]

  I hope so i really do at it was my fault [TS]

  and as people go through this into the [TS]

  back catalogue and send me those tweets [TS]

  not realizing I was sort of joking [TS]

  around a bit [TS]

  I got that on the chin and most things i [TS]

  think my fault because generally I make [TS]

  a lot of mistakes [TS]

  mhm but one thing that was not my fault [TS]

  was the belief that continues to blossom [TS]

  and I continue to complain about that [TS]

  people think we invented the term humble [TS]

  brag on hello Internet [TS]

  ok let's do something yeah i just had [TS]

  this happen with my own parents [TS]

  yesterday didn't like it and it's this [TS]

  will never go away and it was not her [TS]

  fault [TS]

  we never jokingly claimed to make it up [TS]

  we've talked about it a bit but we've [TS]

  never said it was our thing ever know [TS]

  what people believe that and now the [TS]

  worst possible thing that could happen [TS]

  seems to have happened and there is some [TS]

  new game i think it's some new pok√©mon [TS]

  game or something that everyone is [TS]

  playing who has a seen it like a [TS]

  cutscene that that uses the term [TS]

  humblebrag little [TS]

  and everyone who's playing this game is [TS]

  saying this thinking at some cool for [TS]

  hello internet that our word has been no [TS]

  use in this game and is sending me [TS]

  screenshots of the game i cannot tell [TS]

  you how many screenshots well I have [TS]

  gotten this game with this term humble [TS]

  bear comes up on the screen and people [TS]

  say this amazing Brady you're amazing [TS]

  and it was your fault too because you [TS]

  are the person who first mentioned the [TS]

  word on the podcast was it means that I [TS]

  bring it up i can't remember [TS]

  here I was grappling with the concept [TS]

  and you said is a humble break soon as [TS]

  you would say the word before when it [TS]

  was caught in right and I'm like yeah [TS]

  that's what it is and we talked about it [TS]

  from there [TS]

  gosh that thing horse me and it's not my [TS]

  fault the other stuff i can cop because [TS]

  it is my fault [TS]

  right right yeah I feel like we were [TS]

  more serious back then like modern [TS]

  current as might make some joke about [TS]

  owning the word but now we even did like [TS]

  a whole thing we talked about the person [TS]

  who invented the term like you think it [TS]

  couldn't have been more clear that like [TS]

  we were just discussing a word he didn't [TS]

  create this word but yeah that mean is [TS]

  totally out there and seems impossible [TS]

  to kill even with my own family [TS]

  I've corrected the galaxy has ever [TS]

  happened like it just keeps coming on [TS]

  back at ya that's happened in my Western [TS]

  it to thank God people don't think we [TS]

  invented the word flag or brady was just [TS]

  watching the olympics now flying a whole [TS]

  bunch of flags must be so proud [TS]

  it'll never die Brady and I i might as [TS]

  well claim i invented at least give it [TS]

  credit out of it [TS]

  there you go here to here folks Brady [TS]

  Haran inventor of the humble brag now [TS]

  you can't do that because the guy who [TS]

  invented I think passed away it was a [TS]

  really tragic story well then he's not [TS]

  here to contradict your claim she's just [TS]

  gonna be even more rock solid body now [TS]

  it was not great invented it totally [TS]

  Brady Brady he's the guy he's so good [TS]

  with all those words remember people [TS]

  rate is really good with all the words [TS]

  me I'm rubbish i couldn't find anything [TS]

  even if i tried a few jacking okay Brady [TS]

  I've come across the thing which I don't [TS]

  really understand what it is but i'm [TS]

  going to show you and this is something [TS]

  somebody put on the reddit which is on [TS]

  the Wikipedia [TS]

  the page for Brady as in the word friday [TS]

  no not may just bring in general write [TS]

  the word Brady what can the word Brady [TS]

  referred to lady Brady's actual Brady's [TS]

  places called Brady's all of this stuff [TS]

  on there is an image for the Brady [TS]

  coat-of-arms yes could you describe to [TS]

  me what the Brady coat of arms is on the [TS]

  wicked people aged since saying this [TS]

  unread I've investigated further and [TS]

  found all sorts of variations of this [TS]

  and i are all quite similar and it is [TS]

  kind of a black shield blue and in the [TS]

  top left corner is the Sun and men in [TS]

  the bottom right corner is just a hand [TS]

  pointing at the Sun just a finger is [TS]

  pointing at the Sun there's the Sun now [TS]

  when i first saw this I assumed that [TS]

  someone was having a little fun at the [TS]

  wikipedias expense because I do know [TS]

  that our audience on occasion [TS]

  only when it's appropriate sometimes [TS]

  screws around with Wikipedia and changes [TS]

  things to make them funny and so I [TS]

  thought like I surely somebody has gone [TS]

  in and added in this Brady coat of arms [TS]

  which is the hand pointing at a thing [TS]

  which couldn't be more you because I do [TS]

  this in photos over time [TS]

  yeah you did this in the very last [TS]

  episode but sure enough when I went to [TS]

  click on the link like it's from 2007 [TS]

  like it predates the podcast by a lot [TS]

  it's just like I was totally confused by [TS]

  the decent searching you find all sorts [TS]

  of like ancient coats of arms for brady [TS]

  and it's all variations of this finger [TS]

  pointing at the sunset so you done much [TS]

  more deep research into this you found [TS]

  this going below if a quick google [TS]

  images search cancers deep research then [TS]

  yes I think that totally counts yes it [TS]

  does i think if you just Google Image [TS]

  Brady coat of arms you've got a whole [TS]

  bunch of other ones i find this just an [TS]

  amazing miraculous coincidence that [TS]

  makes me smile [TS]

  it is a nice coincidence and i like that [TS]

  the thing that's been point today is [TS]

  like an astronomical object to and [TS]

  reflecting my kind of space geekiness [TS]

  know so yeah it could only have been [TS]

  better if it was the moon it could only [TS]

  have been better if it was the moon but [TS]

  it still strikes me as just a remarkable [TS]

  coincidence i just can't believe that [TS]

  this was actually a thing that [TS]

  pre-existed the podcast and it was not [TS]

  internet shenanigan [TS]

  it's absolutely amazing what's the gray [TS]

  coat of arms I'm sure just in [TS]

  coincidences sake it'll turn out to be [TS]

  like a bunch of gears right that's what [TS]

  it'll be quick projekt revolution update [TS]

  you know it's been a bit of a palava but [TS]

  it looks like as we record we're [TS]

  recording on a sunday night it looks [TS]

  like the album's will actually hit the [TS]

  post tomorrow [TS]

  oh wow but don't like we're gonna hold [TS]

  me to that before that haha yeah they've [TS]

  been more problems than I would have [TS]

  expected put it this way you could make [TS]

  an entire podcast of corporate [TS]

  compensation corner based on some of the [TS]

  problems I've been having getting these [TS]

  things sorted out [TS]

  you better be careful making an [TS]

  offhanded comment like that people will [TS]

  start asking for corporate compensation [TS]

  corner as it relates to projekt [TS]

  revolution you can't mix the corners [TS]

  they would always that now that another [TS]

  word that would be confusing they get [TS]

  all round and squishy if you mix too [TS]

  many of them together is that what [TS]

  happens yeah they do you think you have [TS]

  too many corners things start rounding [TS]

  off of this so he so I don't think we'll [TS]

  do that but speaking of corners [TS]

  you up for a paper cutter to you let's [TS]

  just give you one paper cut I know you [TS]

  don't like multiple paper cuts [TS]

  I've always got a lot on my list but [TS]

  sure Brady why'd you give me a paper cut [TS]

  my paper cap as many of my paper gets [TS]

  these days tend to relate to BBC Twitter [TS]

  streams [TS]

  mhm I don't like kicking the BBC you [TS]

  know I used to work for them I think [TS]

  it's a good organization maybe it's just [TS]

  a reflection of the fact that I follow a [TS]

  lot of BBC on Twitter and so they have [TS]

  more opportunities to irritate me [TS]

  ok a bigger tag i noticed three-word [TS]

  tweet it was back on shift this week by [TS]

  the way [TS]

  oh no and there but let's not go there [TS]

  but the thing that they do and i'll use [TS]

  the example that most irritated me is [TS]

  they were tweeting something about [TS]

  Barrack Obama somethin he done who are [TS]

  current water was let me just make [TS]

  something up [TS]

  Barrack Obama has met with the French [TS]

  president who and what they said was [TS]

  meeting in paris between french [TS]

  president and @potus whom they didn't [TS]

  call him by his name also where he was [TS]

  and they just used his Twitter handle [TS]

  hey I find the in formality a little bit [TS]

  grating from the news organization but [TS]

  worse i find a little bit ingratiating [TS]

  when they do that like that almost [TS]

  hoping for like a retweet or and because [TS]

  it's not like it's someone who like [TS]

  you're not gonna know or like you're not [TS]

  gonna go oh I didn't know I could follow [TS]

  the President of the United States on [TS]

  Twitter thank you for providing that [TS]

  useful service babysitting [TS]

  it's just a little bit like chummy and a [TS]

  bit makes me feel squeamish saying the [TS]

  BBC referring to @potus look at this [TS]

  photo of that POTUS walking on the [TS]

  street because it's almost like a call [TS]

  that to him like because you when you [TS]

  add someone the main reason you would [TS]

  add someone is so that they will see [TS]

  what you just tweeted so it's always [TS]

  like we want the President to see that [TS]

  we just tweeted about him like this is [TS]

  the BBC in the President of the United [TS]

  States it's not me and justin bieber man [TS]

  i like the idea of someone at the BBC is [TS]

  going on to their tweets and replied to [TS]

  have and then flipping over to the [TS]

  verified tab and hitting refresh refresh [TS]

  refresh athletic DC didn't give us a [TS]

  like yeah I think it's silliness don't [TS]

  do that baby see they should very rarely [TS]

  be using the apps of people I don't even [TS]

  like it when the BBC sports site does [TS]

  it'll go you know our fabulous gold [TS]

  today by at wayne rooney like don't do [TS]

  that [TS]

  see I'm gonna totally disagree with you [TS]

  Brady I think they should do that I [TS]

  think that that's exactly what they [TS]

  should be doing what I'm wondering is [TS]

  did the French president's not have a [TS]

  twitter account like is that why they [TS]

  said the French president and POTUS I [TS]

  was just making that up [TS]

  french but yeah I don't even know what [TS]

  it was about so it was like that French [TS]

  Prezi and notice but also sometimes the [TS]

  twitter handle doesn't always reflect [TS]

  who the person is like I guess most [TS]

  people know that [TS]

  POTUS means President of the United [TS]

  States but everyone would know that and [TS]

  so sometimes with sport it'll be you [TS]

  know fabulous go today by at Johnny 371 [TS]

  and because that's what some sports [TS]

  person has their twitter handle it then [TS]

  you don't even know who the person is [TS]

  who scored the go and also you say they [TS]

  should do it [TS]

  I mean why should they do it to help [TS]

  sort of the interconnectivity of Twitter [TS]

  and build the platform that's not what [TS]

  the baby should be [TS]

  I think that this is like the grammar of [TS]

  twitter right the BBC being on Twitter [TS]

  in the first place means well you should [TS]

  be using the system like the way it is [TS]

  to me it's like for the longest time and [TS]

  even still it always bothers me how [TS]

  newspapers seem incredibly reluctant to [TS]

  actually link to with thing right [TS]

  whenever they talk about it in their [TS]

  news articles like if I ever find a news [TS]

  article about a thing and it says like [TS]

  other talk about that here's this [TS]

  amazing thing that someone is making and [TS]

  they mentioned the website but they [TS]

  don't link to it was like god damn it [TS]

  like you know you're on the internet [TS]

  right guys like you yeah you think to a [TS]

  thing and I always find that super [TS]

  frustrating i agree with that gray and i [TS]

  agree on twitter also there's like an [TS]

  etiquette and if I mentioning you i will [TS]

  use your at rather than just a great [TS]

  like I agree with delicate but I feel [TS]

  like there is a line somewhere of kind [TS]

  of formality and people who should be a [TS]

  little bit above her and I think once [TS]

  you've got the british broadcasting [TS]

  corporation and the President of the [TS]

  United States I hold them to a slightly [TS]

  different standard there are times they [TS]

  should use at some things like that and [TS]

  i can even handle you know emojis and [TS]

  things like that but this just feels [TS]

  wrong it just felt juvenile calling him [TS]

  at POTUS yeah it just felt a bit wrong [TS]

  to me but i'll defer to your judgment if [TS]

  it will fit thank you but I'd everyone [TS]

  just thinking like somewhere almost [TS]

  certainly there has to be like a style [TS]

  guide that exists for the BBC twitter [TS]

  account are man i'd love to get my hands [TS]

  on that [TS]

  yeah I'd ripped that bad boy up and [TS]

  rewrite and world no.3 word weeds [TS]

  everywhere to it's no use of the flames [TS]

  have someone is on fire but I'm just [TS]

  thinking like a style guide must exist [TS]

  somewhere right like this has to be a [TS]

  thing and I think the problem will run [TS]

  into with the style guide is trying to [TS]

  define an arbitrary line of seriousness [TS]

  over which you're not going to use the [TS]

  Twitter handles and I think it's [TS]

  especially weird in a place like Twitter [TS]

  because you can easily end up with [TS]

  enough the BBC has a rule like Oh heads [TS]

  of state will always use their names and [TS]

  you won't use their twitter handles but [TS]

  that also just runs into the weird [TS]

  popularity thing on Twitter that like [TS]

  tons of heads of state who have [TS]

  different numbers of Twitter followers [TS]

  right versus like actual celebrities [TS]

  were like million [TS]

  and Brazilians of Twitter followers and [TS]

  she's like I don't think there's any [TS]

  consistent way to come down on a ruling [TS]

  of when you should use the name versus a [TS]

  twitter handle [TS]

  I think if you're on twitter you should [TS]

  just use the Twitter handle like I think [TS]

  that's the medium that's the way that [TS]

  this works well I'll say two things to [TS]

  that one is I actually feel like they're [TS]

  probably is not a very well adhered to [TS]

  style guide for the BBC and twitter [TS]

  because I find them very inconsistent [TS]

  moving on this and i know baby see you [TS]

  know I used to live by a baby style [TS]

  guide so I know that about PB star gods [TS]

  he and Twitter gives me the impression [TS]

  it's the Wild West and they haven't got [TS]

  their act together [TS]

  who and secondly I don't know where that [TS]

  line is and you make a fair point you [TS]

  know where would you draw that line but [TS]

  that life does exist because if for [TS]

  example the Pope died tomorrow heaven [TS]

  forbid i can't see the BBC saying oh my [TS]

  goodness [TS]

  @pontifex has died like they wouldn't do [TS]

  that because that would feel really [TS]

  really inappropriate and that shows that [TS]

  there is a lion and therefore there can [TS]

  be a discussion about where that line is [TS]

  and that's me feels like there's [TS]

  something in there which is like the [TS]

  office versus the person I don't know I [TS]

  feel like I have to think about that but [TS]

  you're right i like it would be weird if [TS]

  that like at pope awesome dead now that [TS]

  would not seem like an appropriate way [TS]

  to do that [TS]

  yeah I feel like you've introduced a [TS]

  little crack here but I still feel like [TS]

  I'm ok with kids with the twitter [TS]

  handles think I'm not okay without just [TS]

  looking I can't believe this so i have [TS]

  the current president's twitter profile [TS]

  open up on my page so i was like i just [TS]

  went to the POTUS thing [TS]

  yeah and the president is using the [TS]

  thing that I can't stand which is like [TS]

  the three now and description of [TS]

  yourself which almost always starts with [TS]

  the thing that other people will care [TS]

  the least about and then ends with the [TS]

  thing that everybody cares the most [TS]

  about what is a to the president's for [TS]

  your description right now it says dad [TS]

  husband 44th President of the United [TS]

  it's okay thank you ate that like great [TS]

  you know that has a total humblebrag it [TS]

  drives me nuts when like some famous [TS]

  important person is like father right [TS]

  they put it is their first thing like [TS]

  out come on dude like nobody's going to [TS]

  your twitter profile because you're a [TS]

  father right like that [TS]

  going to you for the thing that you're [TS]

  known for and it's extra funny to me [TS]

  that it's fallen into this pattern of so [TS]

  many people's Twitter bios have like [TS]

  three nouns as the description and it's [TS]

  like and sodas @potus what would yours [TS]

  be great what would your three baby like [TS]

  in that humble brag zone right it [TS]

  wouldn't be like you know human male [TS]

  youtube soup stir [TS]

  yeah that's what i would do this is why [TS]

  I don't have a twitter description it's [TS]

  a fundamentally impossible to write a [TS]

  good one so i just did not know so I'm [TS]

  gonna have to read in mind before this [TS]

  podcast is that so yeah now look let's [TS]

  see what is within was very have doggie [TS]

  owner filmmakers something-something [TS]

  yeah that's yeah don't go in her husband [TS]

  how about today co-host yeah that's [TS]

  right i don't know what mine says yeah [TS]

  you actually have an easy one [TS]

  you have a decent one because it [TS]

  actually gets to the heart of what you [TS]

  are and why someone would be looking at [TS]

  your twitter profile yeah so as of right [TS]

  now it says video journalist and YouTube [TS]

  person and then you have that number [TS]

  file at periodic videos at hello [TS]

  Internet nice to see and other stuff and [TS]

  location the mighty black stump I think [TS]

  that's good i think i think that's a [TS]

  perfectly good profile because it [TS]

  clarifies who you are and there's like a [TS]

  little bit of a joke for people who [TS]

  would like that [TS]

  yeah but i swear to god i would throw up [TS]

  in my office right now it actually [TS]

  started with like doggy owner husband's [TS]

  youtube person that would be the worst [TS]

  you don't do that i went to that so [TS]

  great it's been probably two new stories [TS]

  this week that have caught my eye and I [TS]

  wanted to discuss with you because both [TS]

  of them made me think of you for various [TS]

  reasons i don't particularly want to [TS]

  talk about the new story but there was a [TS]

  big news story in the UK with the last [TS]

  week or two and it dealt with a 14 year [TS]

  old girl who was dying I think she was [TS]

  dying for something i can so it was [TS]

  really was a terrible story but she [TS]

  wanted to be cryogenically frozen after [TS]

  she died and you know hoping that one [TS]

  day their cue would be found and she [TS]

  would be brought back to life and there [TS]

  was a whole bit of controversy about it [TS]

  to do with her parents [TS]

  we don't need to go into that who but [TS]

  what I did want to go into which is the [TS]

  whole issue of because it did it got [TS]

  people talking about cryonics again and [TS]

  I read [TS]

  lots of articles and things around the [TS]

  place about what they do and how it [TS]

  works soon how people can be frozen and [TS]

  it did get me thinking that if someone [TS]

  said to me Brady there was one person [TS]

  who you're friends with who actually has [TS]

  paid for and it's going to be [TS]

  cryogenically frozen up that person dies [TS]

  which one of your friends do you think [TS]

  it is without doubt my answer would be [TS]

  cgpgrey really really there's nobody [TS]

  else even think of on top of that list [TS]

  though no because I don't know where you [TS]

  stand on this and I deliberately haven't [TS]

  asked you about where you stand on this [TS]

  but I can imagine you are either really [TS]

  opposed to it and think it's ridiculous [TS]

  or then I slightly lean this way I think [TS]

  it tickles you and I think it's possible [TS]

  that something you have not ruled out [TS]

  doing so where do you stand on the on [TS]

  the issue [TS]

  chronixx in general tell me your story [TS]

  gray well you're wrong in that I haven't [TS]

  signed up for [TS]

  cryonics yet if you're looking for a [TS]

  friend who's signed up and written a [TS]

  check i am not on that list [TS]

  however if you're assembling a list of [TS]

  people who have seriously looked into it [TS]

  and found inadequate cryogenic solutions [TS]

  in the UK and the US were unable to pay [TS]

  for it then i would also be on that list [TS]

  wow so you have that serious about it [TS]

  yeah I looked into this little while ago [TS]

  I feel good I guess it's not the most [TS]

  amazing prediction the world was [TS]

  considering your interest but yeah I [TS]

  think it's a fantastically accurate [TS]

  particular right score one of the [TS]

  braided yeah you definitely win the say [TS]

  what you feel like you know you've got a [TS]

  few brochures and look at a few websites [TS]

  and priced up have you and didn't find [TS]

  the deal you're looking for yet [TS]

  well no it wasn't that I didn't find the [TS]

  deal that I was looking for it's just [TS]

  that I'm going to say this was like [TS]

  probably at least three years ago now so [TS]

  I haven't really researched it in a [TS]

  little while yeah but at least at the [TS]

  time when i came across was that it [TS]

  seemed like America was way harder core [TS]

  into the cryogenics industry yeah [TS]

  probably because it has a larger number [TS]

  of slightly nutty super wealthy people [TS]

  who are happy to fund it is my gas yeah [TS]

  i'm gonna bet cryogenic sales are [TS]

  fantastic in a place like Silicon Valley [TS]

  i'm basing that on nothing [TS]

  except again yeah and so maybe that's [TS]

  why that industry exists more there but [TS]

  it seemed like they were a serious [TS]

  number of services that you could really [TS]

  sign up for at least the time when I [TS]

  looked into it in the UK there was [TS]

  nothing that seemed adequate or [TS]

  trustworthy for what I was really [TS]

  looking for in a cryogenic sir but [TS]

  before we go into that I mean you are [TS]

  right America and Russia are the only [TS]

  place that have facilities that are [TS]

  doing at the moment interesting about [TS]

  1,600 people signed on to do in the [TS]

  future i think only a couple hundred or [TS]

  a few hundred people have actually a [TS]

  frozen at the moment you say you [TS]

  couldn't find what you're looking for [TS]

  what are you looking for [TS]

  well again trying to dig a big memories [TS]

  of what it was at the time [TS]

  part of it was these things were [TS]

  shockingly costly some of them were just [TS]

  like I cannot possibly afford this [TS]

  really because the one thing that struck [TS]

  me was that it was cheaper than I [TS]

  expected [TS]

  hmm ok still expensive like you don't [TS]

  know something everyone can do but I was [TS]

  surprised that was a bit cheaper than I [TS]

  thought maybe prices have come down in [TS]

  the past couple years right it's like [TS]

  genetic testing maybe the price keeps [TS]

  having every 18 months as time goes [TS]

  along eventually everybody will get it [TS]

  done [TS]

  yeah but whatever it was it was too [TS]

  expensive at the time but more than that [TS]

  it was a question of time to freeze like [TS]

  how fast can they theoretically get you [TS]

  froze so yeah because I feel like surely [TS]

  if this has any chance of working that [TS]

  is the key factor in how mushy do you [TS]

  get before they stick you in the freezer [TS]

  that has to be the thing and so in [TS]

  America there were a bunch of services [TS]

  that basically like their whole selling [TS]

  point was we can get you frozen really [TS]

  fast after your declared dead yeah and [TS]

  it seemed like that was not the case in [TS]

  the UK right in the UK was like oh yeah [TS]

  once you die will stick you in a box on [TS]

  a free shipping across the ocean to get [TS]

  you to America then we'll freeze you [TS]

  like once the rats finished [TS]

  that's what it seems like so yeah didn't [TS]

  seem like a high probability of success [TS]

  without yeah I'm a little dismissive [TS]

  over and skeptical about it and so this [TS]

  afternoon i was reading a bit about and [TS]

  the more I read about it didn't start [TS]

  appealing to me a little more I read [TS]

  about it the more I thought no this is [TS]

  totally going to appeal to gray and [TS]

  because you can kind of make it a [TS]

  justification for a quite easily you [TS]

  could say well okay maybe if the [TS]

  technology for cryogenic least [TS]

  boring people now is flawed because it [TS]

  is florida blue that doesn't matter it [TS]

  just means it will be a longer wait [TS]

  until the technology exists that can [TS]

  undo that floor and get around the [TS]

  problem any problem can be fixed if we [TS]

  wait enough years and you know then I [TS]

  started going off into all sorts of [TS]

  Pascal's wages and all sorts of things [TS]

  about it all becomes quite philosophical [TS]

  and I started thinking my god I've [TS]

  stumbled into a cgpa video here that [TS]

  that's a good idea [TS]

  yeah it would be a good video after you [TS]

  actually i'll do on cryogenics and I [TS]

  speculate that will be your favorite you [TS]

  love that [TS]

  yeah so why doesn't appeal to you that [TS]

  like what is it that you find resistant [TS]

  about the idea [TS]

  well I don't think it will work I think [TS]

  the technologies to crude and if it did [TS]

  work and they're able to revive [TS]

  something in a thousand years time I [TS]

  don't think that thing would be me and I [TS]

  think there would be no connection of [TS]

  consciousness and it would be kind of a [TS]

  pointless thing I mean you might as well [TS]

  the frozen my shoe and brought back to [TS]

  life it's just a vessel that won't have [TS]

  me in it so I'm pretty skeptical about [TS]

  the whole thing and maybe all that money [TS]

  could be used for something better for [TS]

  family and you know almost any cause [TS]

  would be a better use of the money but I [TS]

  then do you think you know what do I [TS]

  know about what we're gonna know in a [TS]

  thousand years and maybe having my [TS]

  frozen brain will make something [TS]

  possible that i just had don't [TS]

  understand this with the whole the [TS]

  Pascal's wager stuff starts coming in [TS]

  doesn't say you know that it's not for [TS]

  me but I'm finding it harder and harder [TS]

  to dismiss people is complete nut cases [TS]

  for wanting to do it because who knows [TS]

  where we're going to be in a thousand [TS]

  years and maybe just having someone to [TS]

  turn our 1000 years will be enough to [TS]

  completely bring them back in their [TS]

  consciousness and everything for all we [TS]

  know there's so much stuff we don't [TS]

  understand about people and [TS]

  consciousness and the brain sort of [TS]

  fascinated by thing you just tossed out [TS]

  there and I want to go back to this but [TS]

  when you said let's imagine that the [TS]

  free 0 you die and they freeze you get [TS]

  in a thousand years they wake you up [TS]

  yep when you said that you think it [TS]

  might not be you [TS]

  ya go what do you mean by that you're [TS]

  not going to pull the sleep card on me [TS]

  know i know but i'm curious by what you [TS]

  mean like do you mean that the thing [TS]

  that wakes up will be [TS]

  witches are like won't be alive or I'm [TS]

  not quite sure what you mean by that I [TS]

  don't know you're asking me to speculate [TS]

  as I think now but I think if it has a [TS]

  consciousness that probably wouldn't be [TS]

  my consciousness i don't think the two [TS]

  would be connected i think there would [TS]

  be a catastrophic breakdown of whatever [TS]

  makes me me caused by who [TS]

  I death be the freezing process and that [TS]

  is something far more catastrophic than [TS]

  falling asleep i'm not bringing it to [TS]

  sleep so you think it would be like a [TS]

  brand-new person waking up is that what [TS]

  you mean I don't know I find that hard [TS]

  to believe it would be me [TS]

  that's very interesting whether it's [TS]

  something with consciousness and I [TS]

  probably would all I would be doing was [TS]

  to be putting down you know hundred [TS]

  thousand bucks or something so that [TS]

  something else could exist in a thousand [TS]

  years that's not me and will be plenty [TS]

  of stuff to exist in a thousand years [TS]

  without something happen to be made from [TS]

  the mush of my brain [TS]

  mmm stand by I'm just fascinated by that [TS]

  because i have had over the years [TS]

  conversations on cryogenics with people [TS]

  sometimes I've never heard anybody have [TS]

  that worried that the thing that that [TS]

  would wake up wouldn't be them i think [TS]

  that's really interesting [TS]

  that's a really interesting different [TS]

  take on it that I find surprising i just [TS]

  think the preservation of the brain is [TS]

  such a messy process at the moment and [TS]

  so much stuff goes wrong with it and I [TS]

  just don't think it could still be may [TS]

  that's interesting i guess my take on it [TS]

  the whole reason why I would be open to [TS]

  the idea and seriously looked into it at [TS]

  one point is because I feel like well [TS]

  this is a total game of probabilities I [TS]

  think anybody who's frozen now might [TS]

  have quite literally less than a [TS]

  one-in-a-billion chance of ever being [TS]

  revived everything we seem to know about [TS]

  like the way that the freezing process [TS]

  works even putting aside like how likely [TS]

  is it that an institution that is [TS]

  preserving these bodies is going to last [TS]

  for as long as necessary [TS]

  there's so many questions around the [TS]

  possibility of it working but the thing [TS]

  is when you die and they burn your [TS]

  corpse or bury you in the ground you [TS]

  have an absolutely zero percent chance [TS]

  of coming back so I feel like well [TS]

  you're not going to need that money [TS]

  after you're dead and so why not spend [TS]

  some money [TS]

  me on essentially like the grandest [TS]

  lottery ticket that is possible [TS]

  yeah why not roll those dice y just walk [TS]

  away from the table and say I've had [TS]

  enough thanks it was fun [TS]

  why not take one last roll of the dice [TS]

  with your dying hand I feel like I can [TS]

  see that being worth doing [TS]

  I hear your argument i guess the [TS]

  question is at what point to those odds [TS]

  become so small that you think a better [TS]

  use of your money would be instead of [TS]

  buying that lottery ticket to let [TS]

  someone you love now use the money for [TS]

  something [TS]

  yeah they can use it for cryogenic [TS]

  services that can use it for ya yeah i [TS]

  think the payoff of potentially having [TS]

  life in the future is shockingly high it [TS]

  does become very very Pascal's wager e [TS]

  in a sense because if you're talking [TS]

  about like infinite rewards and [TS]

  intestinal possibilities [TS]

  I can totally see where this becomes a [TS]

  thing where you can just kind of come [TS]

  down on one side or the other but I feel [TS]

  like the possibility of living again [TS]

  after death is worth rolling the dice [TS]

  even if it is incredibly unlikely well [TS]

  let me ask you another more meaningful [TS]

  question if I dare you know why do you [TS]

  want more life because it's better than [TS]

  being dead [TS]

  yeah I don't think that's like a hard [TS]

  question right yeah being dead [TS]

  you know it doesn't seem very appealing [TS]

  you know we've all done it before we [TS]

  know what it's like and I don't feel [TS]

  like having another eternity of that so [TS]

  we don't know what it's like do you know [TS]

  what it was like before you were born I [TS]

  don't know what it was like before I was [TS]

  born [TS]

  of course you do there was nothing is [TS]

  forever right that's what it was [TS]

  you have no experience of anything and [TS]

  so I feel like well of course more life [TS]

  is better than more of that that's why [TS]

  the cryogenic thing seems like it's [TS]

  worth rolling the dice and taking the [TS]

  risk [TS]

  ok i also learned today that Walt Disney [TS]

  wasn't currently stored really is that [TS]

  just an urban legend [TS]

  that's an open legend he was connected [TS]

  Wow seen it yet cremation the opposite [TS]

  of cryogenic yeah we want to make sure [TS]

  there's a 0% chance we're going to take [TS]

  your body and we're gonna put entropy to [TS]

  the max [TS]

  that's gonna need some rotech to bring [TS]

  him back here yeah that is beyond the [TS]

  pale ok [TS]

  all information lost its just totally [TS]

  gone no more wonders name [TS]

  sorry everybody sorry kids thank you to [TS]

  audible.com for supporting this episode [TS]

  of the podcast as I record now that [TS]

  currently got an epic library of 180,000 [TS]

  also audiobooks and spoken word audio [TS]

  products and remember you can get a [TS]

  30-day trial at audible.com / hello [TS]

  internet now the most recent audiobook [TS]

  for me was one lots of people have been [TS]

  talking about ready player one by Ernest [TS]

  client for those of you who don't know [TS]

  what it's about [TS]

  I'm not going to spoil it in fact i was [TS]

  so spoiler-free I went into this not [TS]

  even knowing if it was fiction or [TS]

  nonfiction I listened to on a holiday [TS]

  and I was so engrossed I was even [TS]

  finding excuses to listen a bit longer [TS]

  extending a walk going to the gym maybe [TS]

  having just one more drink by the pole [TS]

  actually probably the drinks by the pool [TS]

  excuse was used a lot more than the gym [TS]

  but you get the idea [TS]

  this book's really addictive and worked [TS]

  really well and audio i listened to the [TS]

  version rated by will waiting and many [TS]

  of you will know there's a steven [TS]

  spielberg film on the way based on the [TS]

  book so why not make sure your across [TS]

  the original material before that comes [TS]

  out audibles a top service they've got a [TS]

  really great app there are no problems [TS]

  exchanging books if you end up with one [TS]

  you don't enjoy so much and although i'm [TS]

  not used it yet i hear great things [TS]

  about the whispersync for voice feature [TS]

  which lets you switch back and forth [TS]

  between reading the book on say kindle [TS]

  or kindle app and listening to the [TS]

  audiobook all of that without losing [TS]

  your place where was I up to where was [TS]

  up to the audiobook we was up to on my [TS]

  kindle r-ky remember no problem anymore [TS]

  and of course remember that 30-day free [TS]

  trial the first time you sign up with [TS]

  audible go to audible.com / hello [TS]

  internet to check it out and thanks to [TS]

  them for supporting the podcast so the [TS]

  other thing I've been following this [TS]

  week with great interest actually more [TS]

  interested I would have expected is the [TS]

  chess world championship [TS]

  oh really mrs. come onto your radar at [TS]

  all now I've heard another was the chess [TS]

  world have his shift why would I know [TS]

  there's a third world champion so you [TS]

  don't mind chest and used to play a bit [TS]

  so made me think [TS]

  you know you know more about chessdom me [TS]

  I thought certainly playing I'm a [TS]

  terrible player but i'm very interested [TS]

  in like the personalities and the [TS]

  stories of jess of course you are [TS]

  actually who you love yourself some [TS]

  personalities and I don't care at all [TS]

  about the people playing chess but i did [TS]

  play chess a long time ago and I was [TS]

  very bad when i did play a long time ago [TS]

  but this is the first time I've ever [TS]

  followed one as it happened and I've [TS]

  read a lot about historic ones and I've [TS]

  really gotten into it like I've been [TS]

  watching like these sort of 45-minute [TS]

  hour-long summaries of the games [TS]

  afterwards where they explain all the [TS]

  moves of what was going on [TS]

  who I've been really into it for those [TS]

  who don't know it's currently well as [TS]

  we're recording it's currently going on [TS]

  it probably will be over by the time [TS]

  people hear this [TS]

  it's between the reigning world champion [TS]

  magnus carlsen moved from Sweden and the [TS]

  challengers sergej carry aiken from [TS]

  Russia and by the way [TS]

  Magnus Carlsen is not from Sweden he's [TS]

  from know why I just said that because I [TS]

  knew how much it would stare up all the [TS]

  Norwegian business [TS]

  okay well girl I will convert the [TS]

  trouble i even went so far as to find [TS]

  out just to double check that Sweden was [TS]

  the country that would upset the most [TS]

  for me to say gonna get this this feels [TS]

  to me like a very Brady moment ok this [TS]

  is not a real core of your personalities [TS]

  checking for now because I want to find [TS]

  there's how many people like pawns the [TS]

  podcast right and we didn't make it [TS]

  it's instantly noticed a second ascent [TS]

  that is totally a thing people pause the [TS]

  podcast to immediately write out the [TS]

  tweet and then unpause it to hear the [TS]

  clarifying sentence little it's [TS]

  definitely happens so you're going to [TS]

  enjoy some of those tweets [TS]

  I'm very aware Magnus Carlsen's from [TS]

  nowhere actually know quite a lot about [TS]

  him i'm oddly fascinated by himself hmm [TS]

  anyway I've gotten so into it the other [TS]

  night when it was happening they playing [TS]

  in New York i actually woke up and like [TS]

  started watching on twitch light live [TS]

  commentary of like this six and a half [TS]

  hour game at one point my wife wake up [TS]

  and like I said one earth you doing [TS]

  because i had on my iPad as it i'm [TS]

  watching the chess tournament and it was [TS]

  like during one of these 20 minute gaps [TS]

  between moves when they were just all [TS]

  talking and speculating about what might [TS]

  happen next [TS]

  my god it wasn't even watching the game [TS]

  i was watching like someone else's like [TS]

  computerized bored of it because I [TS]

  wasn't watching the live feed of the [TS]

  actual game [TS]

  guys don't understand you had a [TS]

  heartbreaking because amazing stingy [TS]

  with all I've just gotten consumed by [TS]

  how do they feel 20 minute gaps between [TS]

  moves like where they comment on [TS]

  well they have two boards on the screen [TS]

  the 1i watched have two boards on the [TS]

  screen okay [TS]

  the smaller board on one side is the [TS]

  current state of play mhm and on the [TS]

  Left they use a bit of a sandbox and [TS]

  they're like well he could move this one [TS]

  here but then he'd move this one here [TS]

  and you just watch all the potential [TS]

  things that player and actually that [TS]

  brought up one of the points I wanted to [TS]

  make from watching one of my [TS]

  observations because I've always been a [TS]

  little bit fascinated by these grand [TS]

  masters of chess and a little bit in all [TS]

  of them but watching this is kind of [TS]

  taken that away a bit and this will [TS]

  actually probably make you love them [TS]

  more but it makes me love them unless [TS]

  it's made me realize how much they're [TS]

  just like pure computers [TS]

  uh-huh like the people who are best at [TS]

  chess I just the people who can hold a [TS]

  lot of information in their brain em and [TS]

  compute lots of moves under time [TS]

  pressure and like it's taking away some [TS]

  of the magic I always felt of that [TS]

  creative moments or just following like [TS]

  an instinct or something that and it has [TS]

  made me realize more and more that the [TS]

  people who are best chess are people who [TS]

  just got serious hardware up top [TS]

  sometimes Britney I feel like I don't [TS]

  understand you at all like what on earth [TS]

  did you think chess grandmasters could [TS]

  possibly be except humans with brains [TS]

  bizarrely specialized for this one [TS]

  activity like i'll get there anything [TS]

  else i think because i read lots of nice [TS]

  literature about chess players i kind of [TS]

  just conjured up something a little bit [TS]

  more magical in my head a little bit [TS]

  more like creative and dashing and [TS]

  unpredictable and like even though I'm [TS]

  not belittling the skill of being a good [TS]

  chess player and the amazing this other [TS]

  it certainly beyond they are my brain [TS]

  melts just watching a who but I've kind [TS]

  of lost I've lost something [TS]

  what if I lost gray help me on the word [TS]

  I don't know what you've lost except [TS]

  your own incorrect fantasy about which [TS]

  has plans and what I was looking for [TS]

  incorrect fantasy [TS]

  like I don't know what youre imagine [TS]

  what you're thinking chess players are [TS]

  like poets or something I don't [TS]

  understand what you were thinking [TS]

  yeah maybe that's it maybe there was a [TS]

  little bit of that like I knew they were [TS]

  super spy could like see ahead and like [TS]

  hot had incredible memories and had [TS]

  computational power but i think i saw a [TS]

  little bit more poetry in there somehow [TS]

  and now I'm realizing that was an [TS]

  incorrect fantasy [TS]

  yeah this to me falls into the like the [TS]

  thing I've said it many different places [TS]

  in many different areas that the people [TS]

  who are best in the world at anything [TS]

  our total freaks because they like they [TS]

  have to be if you have anything that's [TS]

  remotely competitive it's like the [TS]

  people who are best in the business [TS]

  world if they like broken people but [TS]

  they're broken in this useful way where [TS]

  they create businesses for the rest of [TS]

  us just constantly right here if you [TS]

  look at athletes like the people who are [TS]

  the best in the world are people who are [TS]

  total freaks because they have a [TS]

  combination of like the perfect genetics [TS]

  and a kind of mental attitude that is [TS]

  very conducive to training that nobody [TS]

  could possibly endure and so in chess [TS]

  where you have an activity that is just [TS]

  incredibly perfectly cerebral and [TS]

  computational of course you should find [TS]

  the people in the world who are [TS]

  functionally human computers [TS]

  that's what you should expect to find [TS]

  playing chess yeah I guess that's what's [TS]

  taken away some of the magic though [TS]

  because like if I'm watching a game of [TS]

  cricket or football or something [TS]

  there's not a little bar down the bottom [TS]

  that will say what the computer says [TS]

  that if he bowls the next ball here he [TS]

  would definitely win the game where his [TS]

  chest it's a bit like the computer says [TS]

  Carlson's next move should be this [TS]

  evening and then 99 times out of a [TS]

  hundred that's the movie will do right [TS]

  it's almost like well why even watching [TS]

  humans do this now that it's not helped [TS]

  by the fact they're playing drawer after [TS]

  draw after draw write that they have [TS]

  been quite exciting drawers and don't [TS]

  get all upset chest fans i have been [TS]

  appreciating the games and sometimes [TS]

  they do a move that's not predicted by [TS]

  the computer and that's quite exciting [TS]

  and I have really enjoyed it [TS]

  well I'm glad you enjoyed it but it to [TS]

  me it's also like well these people [TS]

  aren't the best chess players in the [TS]

  world anyway any more computers of the [TS]

  best chess players in the world so it's [TS]

  like you're watching a bunch of [TS]

  inadequate computers playing [TS]

  the game it's like there could be much [TS]

  better games being played by computers [TS]

  but we just don't do that because people [TS]

  want to see a human do it was like oh [TS]

  you're not even watching the best in the [TS]

  world because the best in the world are [TS]

  not humans with the chess tournament [TS]

  should actually be right is the best [TS]

  computers Blanche our why go away [TS]

  oh well like silliness and you know i [TS]

  don't think that silliness [TS]

  I think that the chest thing exists [TS]

  because people want to see other people [TS]

  do it but then it becomes not about like [TS]

  what's the best chess game that exists [TS]

  it's more about like I want to see [TS]

  monkeys playing chess [TS]

  look at these monkeys that are [TS]

  freakishly like computers playing chess [TS]

  this is what i'm actually watching you [TS]

  want to see the the best chess game [TS]

  watch two computers play each other but [TS]

  nobody wants to do that because they [TS]

  want to watch monkeys play chess monkeys [TS]

  that are like computers that really what [TS]

  you believe you'd rather watch trey [TS]

  computers than the two best treatments [TS]

  well I have no interest in watching [TS]

  either i couldn't possibly imagine [TS]

  watching a chess game if I said you have [TS]

  to watch one you choose the computers [TS]

  but your this is a different thing now [TS]

  right what about empathy [TS]

  what about empathizing with the players [TS]

  and the stress there under the pressure [TS]

  and like the egos involved that knowing [TS]

  that one of them is going to be [TS]

  humiliated and but that's been the most [TS]

  interesting part of this the body [TS]

  language the storming out of press [TS]

  conferences the big egos been crushed [TS]

  yeah but that's a different thing like [TS]

  that's all we want to watch the monkeys [TS]

  play chess [TS]

  that's what it is like monkeys want to [TS]

  watch a bunch of monkeys playing games [TS]

  and i understand that like that's what [TS]

  sports is that's what any of this stuff [TS]

  is I think the chest one is extra funny [TS]

  because it's an area where unlike sports [TS]

  at least for now until the RoboCup [TS]

  catches up [TS]

  humans are the best in the world at [TS]

  sports right so it's like you're [TS]

  watching both the humans and the best [TS]

  example of this thing possible right [TS]

  where the chest wanted two strikes me as [TS]

  funny because it's like well it lays [TS]

  bare more clearly what's really [TS]

  happening is that the humans want to [TS]

  watch humans doing a thing right that's [TS]

  what the Korea maybe that's partly what [TS]

  struck me maybe that's partly the [TS]

  emotion i was having that it's a funny [TS]

  thing that when you say about like the [TS]

  mechanical miss of it because this is [TS]

  one of the reasons why I lost interest [TS]

  in chess at a certain point was because [TS]

  I recognize like Oh once you get beyond [TS]

  the basics like it very quickly becomes [TS]

  about just the sheer number of positions [TS]

  that you have seen that you are familiar [TS]

  with and I feel like this game became [TS]

  less fun because of this because now i [TS]

  see like Oh to get better it's really [TS]

  like a game of incredible memorization [TS]

  and it becomes like yeah I'm learning [TS]

  routines to go through these various [TS]

  things and I've seen some stats on how [TS]

  long the openings are for chess games [TS]

  until you get to like a unique position [TS]

  that has never been seen like it's [TS]

  incredibly long ya is one of the reasons [TS]

  why I know Bobby Fischer was pushing his [TS]

  version of random chess which i did play [TS]

  a few games of and I felt like I wish [TS]

  this had caught on because this actually [TS]

  gets the game I think much more towards [TS]

  what you would want which is by [TS]

  randomizing with some rules the starting [TS]

  location of all of the pieces i think it [TS]

  knocks people out of the you are an [TS]

  incredible computer that is just [TS]

  recalling a database of moves and it [TS]

  gets the game much more into a you have [TS]

  to be creative because the number of [TS]

  permutations here creates boards that no [TS]

  one has ever seen like an every single [TS]

  game and I think that that would [TS]

  actually be much more interesting to [TS]

  play and much more interesting to watch [TS]

  play is a lousy random setup of the [TS]

  board every time so another thing I've [TS]

  realized this is like a naive [TS]

  realization but it's just I found a [TS]

  quite cute in myself who that is the [TS]

  importance of pawns in chess like when [TS]

  you're like dominant young like me when [TS]

  I was playing as a kid the pawns were [TS]

  almost these things you wanted to get [TS]

  off the board as soon as possible was [TS]

  like got in the way of all the powerful [TS]

  pieces of food you know blazing they [TS]

  weren't doing all the cool things they [TS]

  could do and like losing a porn meant [TS]

  nothing to me but these guys will fight [TS]

  to the death to protect appointment who [TS]

  forms are so important to them it's so [TS]

  funny to me how Cavalier I always was [TS]

  but are you go on take a few of my point [TS]

  I don't care just means I can move my [TS]

  queen better in all these endgames the [TS]

  pawns it is so important to the whole [TS]

  game [TS]

  yeah well there's the quote which is [TS]

  that the ponds are the soul of chest [TS]

  which is definitely true especially [TS]

  because of their funny attacking [TS]

  sideways thing that the structures that [TS]

  you end up creating with the ponds [TS]

  really determine the flow [TS]

  what's happening on the board but i also [TS]

  think it's because at that high of a [TS]

  level upon is the largest size mistake [TS]

  could you possibly going to make right [TS]

  like the best players in the world are [TS]

  not going to do the kind of thing that [TS]

  like me as a normal player would do of [TS]

  like oops i wasn't paying attention and [TS]

  i lost my rook right like that doesn't [TS]

  happen you know I didn't even know you [TS]

  could take my roof with and didn't say [TS]

  that Bishop over there [TS]

  yeah that's exactly it like I feel like [TS]

  I remember we know I was terrible player [TS]

  but i remember playing against friends [TS]

  like intentionally hiding a bishop like [TS]

  on the corner of the port's that you [TS]

  just don't like someone doesn't know [TS]

  it's like I don't think it was sort of [TS]

  errors are happening at the grand master [TS]

  level but so I think the only thing that [TS]

  ends up happening is upon level error [TS]

  yeah I don't think this cows gonna say [TS]

  all I forgot that one could move [TS]

  diagonal ation yeah exactly like those [TS]

  night there so tricky with their [TS]

  l-shaped moves that way to get that's [TS]

  like the biggest mistake that's ever [TS]

  going to happen is if someone gets [TS]

  maneuvered into a position where they [TS]

  end up losing upon and then that is [TS]

  actually quite dramatic at the grand [TS]

  master level [TS]

  yeah and my last observation who maybe [TS]

  suggestion and I know this is gonna let [TS]

  upset some people who but I'm i don't [TS]

  know how i feel about it I don't think [TS]

  people should resign in games of chess [TS]

  who but I understand when they agree to [TS]

  a draw but what happens in so many games [TS]

  is one of them resins and I can't even [TS]

  really see why they've lost em and then [TS]

  let the experts will say well this would [TS]

  have happened in this would have [TS]

  happened then of course this would have [TS]

  happened there will be no choice but [TS]

  this would have happened and ultimately [TS]

  he would have been left in this position [TS]

  in which case he would have lost who I [TS]

  think they should play it out just for [TS]

  the spectators and also there's [TS]

  something so dramatic about checkmate [TS]

  little that you never see check my in [TS]

  games of chess between grandmasters [TS]

  because they both see it coming a mile [TS]

  off who and resign before it happens and [TS]

  i think we should get to see the death [TS]

  of the king who [TS]

  and also I think you should be made to [TS]

  go through if you lose you should be [TS]

  made to play it out and lose your king I [TS]

  find a little bit disappointing and I [TS]

  can see reasons for you know saving time [TS]

  and energy that but I think you [TS]

  shouldn't resign i think they should [TS]

  play it out and we should get to see the [TS]

  check back we should get to see the coup [TS]

  de Gras I mean could you imagine in a [TS]

  baseball game if a better example might [TS]

  be a football game or something in a [TS]

  football game and some team is [TS]

  down by 30 points and there's 20 30 [TS]

  seconds left they still play to the [TS]

  buzzer [TS]

  you don't just the other team doesn't [TS]

  just walk off so you have one and leave [TS]

  the field we got no hope now we're never [TS]

  gonna come back in that time before you [TS]

  play there i would like to see these [TS]

  chess games played out i was thinking of [TS]

  how at our alabama football game like [TS]

  what would be the feeling in the stadium [TS]

  if the opposing team just halfway [TS]

  through just walked off like okay we [TS]

  resign if you like are you kidding me [TS]

  we're here for a thing like to watch the [TS]

  thing i'm totally with you like if [TS]

  resigning is a super common thing at the [TS]

  grand master level i would feel really [TS]

  disappointed by that if i was a fan and [TS]

  I wouldn't watch grand master chess cry [TS]

  you'd never see a check night [TS]

  it's always a resignation now i have [TS]

  many reasons not to watch like what you [TS]

  want to see is I want to see someone's [TS]

  King dramatically knocked over right [TS]

  there has to be the end of every chess [TS]

  game [TS]

  checkmate so exciting but they just [TS]

  never do and i understand i see it [TS]

  coming and it's inevitable but i still [TS]

  think I play it out for us to see it [TS]

  happen and be you never know mistakes [TS]

  get made [TS]

  I'm with you I'm with you on this one [TS]

  play to the end people don't resign [TS]

  don't resign like a chicken right yeah [TS]

  exactly people should make the garden [TS]

  oasis in the audience when someone [TS]

  resins is there an audience can people [TS]

  like jeer I don't understand either but [TS]

  yeah there's an audience for your [TS]

  audience's it was famous all the [TS]

  problems with the audience and the bobby [TS]

  fischer Spassky chess game of the [TS]

  century before show always said they're [TS]

  making too much noise or one of them [TS]

  further away and he was a really funny [TS]

  being about the audience so then they [TS]

  went played in a back room for two or [TS]

  three games because he didn't want an [TS]

  audience and they put camera in there so [TS]

  the audience could watch out in the hole [TS]

  and then eventually he agreed to come [TS]

  back out into the hole but we go again [TS]

  I'm sure Bobby Fischer was a supernormal [TS]

  dude right because it's the best person [TS]

  that chest in the world and the picture [TS]

  of your malice see ya [TS]

  yeah i like the idea of people blocking [TS]

  at the person who resigns you should [TS]

  play until the end [TS]

  yeah and i agree with you like it is [TS]

  almost impossible to imagine that in the [TS]

  history of chess no grand master has [TS]

  ever resigned a game that they would [TS]

  have won if they played through to the [TS]

  end [TS]

  yeah right like that has to be the case [TS]

  that someone was wrong at some point so [TS]

  I think they should play through to the [TS]

  end even if they play faster this is to [TS]

  play through to the end without a doubt [TS]

  maybe you and I should play chess [TS]

  breathing oh that would be that would [TS]

  not be good [TS]

  no we said two against Iran [TS]

  chess on the YouTube channel and we let [TS]

  people comment on it when people could [TS]

  do running commentaries unless the [TS]

  random configuration starts with me [TS]

  already having given checkmate [TS]

  I don't fancy much answers but so great [TS]

  i have started putting a small piece of [TS]

  black tape over my webcam [TS]

  oh really why have you done that Brady [TS]

  why have you done that well obviously [TS]

  this is following up on a discussion [TS]

  about whether or not people can hack [TS]

  into webcams and I don't particularly [TS]

  think they can and if they could I don't [TS]

  think that particularly want to do it to [TS]

  me who and if they did do it to me i'm [TS]

  not particularly worried about them [TS]

  watching me edit videos and look at my [TS]

  periodic table on the wall behind me who [TS]

  and also i know that that zuckerberg [TS]

  does and then I saw the boss of the FBI [TS]

  apparently also put tape over his webcam [TS]

  on his computer as well it's reaching a [TS]

  point now I'm thinking hang on all these [TS]

  people who know stuff doing it maybe I'm [TS]

  supposed to be doing it [TS]

  what about you yeah well the quick [TS]

  answer to what you said there's for the [TS]

  moment I haven't actually put anything [TS]

  over the cameras yet but going back to [TS]

  that conversation we had where we were [TS]

  widely speculated photography will have [TS]

  information about a thing we're talking [TS]

  about computer security [TS]

  it was one of those interesting [TS]

  conversations because often when you're [TS]

  talking on a podcast I'm so aware of [TS]

  back in the editing you you realize in [TS]

  all of our conversations like how often [TS]

  you have assumptions in your head that [TS]

  you're kind of not saying out loud and [TS]

  that security conversation was [TS]

  definitely filled with a ton of those [TS]

  week ended up getting like an enormous [TS]

  amount of feedback listing a ton of [TS]

  cases where yes someone was able to hack [TS]

  into a person's camera or microphone [TS]

  right it's just like a link to that that [TS]

  discussion in the show notes but he's [TS]

  like terrifying terrifying number of [TS]

  stories and examples of people being [TS]

  able to hack into devices now one of the [TS]

  things that wasn't universally true but [TS]

  was very very often the case in those [TS]

  stories was there was some level of user [TS]

  error right that the user had been [TS]

  tricked into installing [TS]

  piece of software that they shouldn't [TS]

  write or the user had done an action [TS]

  that had like open the door for malware [TS]

  to get on the system right clicking a [TS]

  link in an email you know [TS]

  loading up a website that they should [TS]

  all of this kind of stuff and so there's [TS]

  this problem of computer security that [TS]

  you can see unroll in that discussion [TS]

  which is it is this balance of how much [TS]

  does the attacker care and how secure is [TS]

  your system and i think at the end of [TS]

  that conversation in the red i came down [TS]

  to the conclusion in some sense of like [TS]

  well things are less secure than i [TS]

  thought but still largely it's like [TS]

  demonstrations of cases where you can [TS]

  hack into someones device but if you [TS]

  can't trick the user and if they're [TS]

  using a secure platform it still ends up [TS]

  being like near heroic amount of effort [TS]

  that have to be done in order to be able [TS]

  to do this and so I saw examples of [TS]

  people saying like oh you can break into [TS]

  somebody's iphone by installing a device [TS]

  that pretends to be the local cell phone [TS]

  network right when the person connects [TS]

  to it and then you wait for them to [TS]

  install an app and you have ready and [TS]

  waiting like a fake version of the app [TS]

  that they're going to install through [TS]

  this fakeness like but I still think [TS]

  like under most normal circumstances it [TS]

  seems like if the user is relatively [TS]

  savvy using a relatively secure system [TS]

  the likelihood of this is not super high [TS]

  but it's definitely it seems high her [TS]

  than I had first mentally examined it [TS]

  but i still have a ton of links and [TS]

  things to go through and read in more [TS]

  detail that resulted from that [TS]

  conversation so this is just us kind of [TS]

  talking out loud about that now one of [TS]

  the things that I think is a bit of a [TS]

  strange thing to think about though is [TS]

  like so you said you put tape over your [TS]

  computer the computer you're sitting in [TS]

  front of right now is that the one that [TS]

  you've done it wouldnt yeah but like [TS]

  have you done it with your ipads and [TS]

  with your phone i haven't done it with [TS]

  those yet no [TS]

  this is the fact of taking the type on [TS]

  and off all the time [TS]

  this is part of the thing which is also [TS]

  a bit like well I have some devices that [TS]

  are relatively easy to secure in terms [TS]

  of like my office computer would be [TS]

  trivially simple to do this I could [TS]

  actually totally break the microphone on [TS]

  my office computer and it would never [TS]

  even matter to me right I could just [TS]

  have the external microphone that i plug [TS]

  in and I could cover up the camera on [TS]

  that computer but then [TS]

  well that's the device that i'm in front [TS]

  of by far and away the least write the [TS]

  thing this [TS]

  thing this [TS]

  hardest to secure is my phone which is [TS]

  the thing that's with me all the time [TS]

  it's like am I going to have something [TS]

  over the microphone and over the cameras [TS]

  on my phone that then becomes a super [TS]

  hassle and it the more I think about [TS]

  this it almost feels like there's no [TS]

  real way to win this game right like the [TS]

  devices that are easy to secure are the [TS]

  ones you're probably using the least and [TS]

  the ones that are the hardest to secure [TS]

  are the ones that you're using the most [TS]

  and that says something about you to [TS]

  know that's not true with me but I guess [TS]

  you're maybe you're more common case but [TS]

  I'm certainly in front of this computer [TS]

  a lot more than I'm on my phone on my [TS]

  ipad if you break into my camera on my [TS]

  iPad and she caught me watching netflix [TS]

  last thing before I went to sleep [TS]

  you wouldn't say much and on my phone [TS]

  where you just probably stay inside my [TS]

  pocket but presumably if someone's [TS]

  turning on the microphone in your phone [TS]

  yeah this is with you essentially all [TS]

  the time I'd be shocked if you're saying [TS]

  that you're you're using your office [TS]

  computer more than your phone is with [TS]

  you like I don't think that's probably [TS]

  very likely yeah you probably around [TS]

  Jamie like your phone is with you all [TS]

  the time and that becomes very hard to [TS]

  secure it like someone's in there and [TS]

  they're able to turn on the cameras like [TS]

  well they can turn on the microphone and [TS]

  they can turn on the location services [TS]

  and they can find out a bunch of other [TS]

  stuff like if you've been tricked into [TS]

  when installing software that you [TS]

  shouldn't have installed so yeah I think [TS]

  I I in the end i am going to just cover [TS]

  up the camera on the devices that are [TS]

  the easiest to do but i'm not sure like [TS]

  I'm going to end up trying to do it on [TS]

  my iPads in my phone because i'm just [TS]

  not sure that like the risk-reward [TS]

  profile there pays off in terms of this [TS]

  year hassle of it but will say like man [TS]

  that discussion thread on the reddit [TS]

  there's not something to read right [TS]

  before you go to bed that is not a thing [TS]

  that's going to make you feel super [TS]

  secure that's for sure [TS]

  and speaking of things that make you [TS]

  feel insecure this story that just [TS]

  caught my attention today which in [TS]

  theory i should be really angry about [TS]

  this and I should be really worked up [TS]

  and upset about this [TS]

  perhaps the equivalent level that I get [TS]

  upset about garbage but I feel like this [TS]

  is a thing that is so big it's almost [TS]

  like too big for me to react to [TS]

  it is the fact that the UK they're [TS]

  trying to pass this Investigatory Powers [TS]

  bill which will require all of the [TS]

  internet service providers in the UK all [TS]

  of the mobile phone carriers in the UK [TS]

  to record all of the websites their [TS]

  individual users use for a year and to [TS]

  turn them over to an enormous list of [TS]

  government agencies without even a [TS]

  warrant this to me is it is just [TS]

  incredible [TS]

  at the time of the recording this looks [TS]

  like it's going to pass it looks like [TS]

  it's actually going to get through and I [TS]

  feel like this is unbelievable that this [TS]

  to me is like so incredibly 1984 like I [TS]

  find it hard to even react to [TS]

  it's like it's just so big it's [TS]

  mind-blowing such as someone working for [TS]

  the food standards agency can say oh I [TS]

  want to save cgp grace browsing history [TS]

  for the last year and him have it [TS]

  yeah i mean it like that sounds like an [TS]

  exaggeration but that is literally what [TS]

  it is there's this comical list of [TS]

  government agencies that can just [TS]

  request a specific persons browsing [TS]

  history over the past year it's [TS]

  absolutely crazy like the job seekers [TS]

  government department which deals with [TS]

  tons and tons of people can just request [TS]

  it like somebody comes in and they're [TS]

  looking for help for a job and a dude [TS]

  can just be like Oh show me what this [TS]

  person has browsing the internet for the [TS]

  last year it's so incredibly invasive i [TS]

  keep using this word she's like it's [TS]

  just unbelievable [TS]

  it's just totally shocking to me that [TS]

  this is even really a thing I just can't [TS]

  believe that I totally can't believe it [TS]

  I don't know it's a great i can't [TS]

  believe it oh that's crazy it's called [TS]

  the investigatory powers bill [TS]

  yeah and like I'm looking at this list [TS]

  of things it's like the Food Standards [TS]

  Agency places that you would expect [TS]

  right the ministry of justice but also [TS]

  like just the tax department is allowed [TS]

  to look at everything that you've [TS]

  browsed on the internet for the past [TS]

  year my personal favorite on this list [TS]

  which is like how did this even end up [TS]

  here [TS]

  the Welsh [TS]

  ambulance services is allowed to look at [TS]

  what you've been browsing on the [TS]

  internet for the past year it's like to [TS]

  me this is like this surface of attack [TS]

  on this is just crazy it's like does [TS]

  anybody think that all of these various [TS]

  government agencies will be able to keep [TS]

  all of this data secure it's totally [TS]

  bizarre and I mean talking about [TS]

  computer security I feel like well i've [TS]

  been using a VPN for browsing Wi-Fi on [TS]

  foreign networks but it looks like well [TS]

  i guess i'm just going to be routing [TS]

  everything I ever do on the internet [TS]

  through a VPN for the rest of my life in [TS]

  the United Kingdom to try to get around [TS]

  this like it's absolutely crazy and I [TS]

  can't believe that it looks like it's [TS]

  going to pass that picked a good time to [TS]

  sort of snakes through heavenly with so [TS]

  much other big political news happening [TS]

  all around the world people kind of [TS]

  sleepwalking through this one [TS]

  yeah I think they really are but go by [TS]

  your VPN people need to learn about [TS]

  those gray can you give me a tutorial [TS]

  center yeah i'll set you will be it's [TS]

  just so invasive [TS]

  what else is there to say there's like a [TS]

  government looking over your shoulder [TS]

  and recording every website you go to [TS]

  I can't believe it this episode of Hello [TS]

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  of a bunch of holiday shopping all in [TS]

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  thank you very much to fracture for [TS]

  supporting the show black mirror black [TS]

  mirror I feel a bit better great because [TS]

  obviously the homework we set which I [TS]

  did we say I kind of thought it was [TS]

  implicit is that we were talking about [TS]

  the new series series ray which is me [TS]

  recently put on netflix but I saw some [TS]

  people sort of saying messages or how [TS]

  much do i watch just watch series 12 i [TS]

  have to watch series 2 and 3 as well but [TS]

  no we already talked about episodes in [TS]

  series one this is just series three [TS]

  were saying to watch i'll try to pull it [TS]

  up for the show notes but i know we we [TS]

  have discussed in the past earlier [TS]

  episodes of black mirror [TS]

  we were just setting season 3 which does [TS]

  have six episodes in it and if you're [TS]

  feeling bad that you watch those earlier [TS]

  episodes don't because they're fantastic [TS]

  and secondly you can go listen to the [TS]

  old shows I will put in the show notes [TS]

  where we talk about some of those [TS]

  episodes so we were just talking about [TS]

  season 3 which we are going to do very [TS]

  shortly so obviously as usual expect [TS]

  spoilers expect spoilers for all of the [TS]

  seasons because we might reference stuff [TS]

  it's all going to happen so pause the [TS]

  podcast now people go watch some [TS]

  episodes if you haven't watched them [TS]

  already [TS]

  it's a very good TV series i think it's [TS]

  totally worth it and now we're going to [TS]

  talk about some stuff so there are six [TS]

  episodes in serious right [TS]

  mhm i have watched five of them i have [TS]

  not watched episode 5 but I've watched [TS]

  one two three four and six who have you [TS]

  don't I broke it up into two sessions i [TS]

  watched the first three episodes in one [TS]

  session and the second three episodes [TS]

  another so i have seen all of them [TS]

  it's an interesting thing like this was [TS]

  a longer season of black mirror than the [TS]

  other ones i think the first season was [TS]

  like three episodes the second season [TS]

  was four and now this is [TS]

  6 episode was kind of 33 and then a [TS]

  Christmas special and then six so season [TS]

  was three in season two was three [TS]

  hmm then they had this special Christmas [TS]

  one who's a longer episode okay and then [TS]

  we've got six down series reflects [TS]

  listing that it seems intended why i [TS]

  think i was thinking about it but maybe [TS]

  you are more technically correct yeah [TS]

  just that sort of talking about it [TS]

  overall I think it was kind of an [TS]

  interesting viewing experience because i [TS]

  think this this season cemented most [TS]

  clearly to me this feeling that black [TS]

  mirror is the twilight zone with [TS]

  technology that that's what this TV show [TS]

  is and I think that that comes with good [TS]

  things in bad things so I i have watched [TS]

  all of the twilight zone episodes at [TS]

  various points in my life and gone [TS]

  through like twilight zone kicks were [TS]

  all cranked through a whole bunch of [TS]

  them and whenever i do that one of the [TS]

  things that I think is interesting is [TS]

  how when I think about the twilight zone [TS]

  I am in my head remembering actually a [TS]

  relatively small subset of episodes that [TS]

  really stick with me and when I rework [TS]

  my way through the twilight zone i'm [TS]

  aware of all of the episodes that I just [TS]

  sort of forget about that don't stick [TS]

  with me for some reason [TS]

  mm and this season of black mirror I [TS]

  really felt that I watched a bunch of [TS]

  episodes but I feel like there was [TS]

  really only one in this season that I [TS]

  feel like I'm going to come back to and [TS]

  think about a bunch and the others they [TS]

  were very good just like when I'm [TS]

  watching twilight zone i think like [TS]

  these episodes are good they're [TS]

  entertaining and like the blackmailer [TS]

  episodes are vastly better than most [TS]

  things on TV but it did feel like a [TS]

  bunch of these episodes were just sort [TS]

  of episodes in this black mirror world [TS]

  to me and I didn't feel like oh wow i [TS]

  was super grabbed by every single thing [TS]

  that I saw those are sort of my general [TS]

  impressions of series 3 [TS]

  what do you think breeding you know I [TS]

  think of the five of the six I've [TS]

  watched and I've stopped watching five [TS]

  and start because it wasn't grabbing me [TS]

  but i will go back and watch you like [TS]

  anything there was some sort of hits and [TS]

  misses [TS]

  thought they were probably more than one [TS]

  that stuck with me there are a few of [TS]

  them had me thinking the next day which [TS]

  is about as good at testers you can [TS]

  apply to these things I loved him you [TS]

  know and surprisingly perhaps I'm not as [TS]

  excited as I was by like series one when [TS]

  it was new and interesting and something [TS]

  really different you kind of know what [TS]

  to expect now kind of a quest cynical [TS]

  look at the way technology is [TS]

  infiltrating society so you get there is [TS]

  a sort of say meanest coming to it both [TS]

  in the mood and the content of the shows [TS]

  but i still think it's good i think it's [TS]

  a good use of your time and I certainly [TS]

  recommend watching them [TS]

  oh yeah which was the one obviously [TS]

  everyone's gonna want to know which the [TS]

  episode was that did something to well [TS]

  we'll get to that in a moment but i [TS]

  think you actually hit upon an excellent [TS]

  point there which is there is a little [TS]

  bit of this a meanness in that i found [TS]

  myself when watching these episodes this [TS]

  time you sort of aware and waiting for [TS]

  the thing like the moment we're like oh [TS]

  we're going to learn about what this [TS]

  world really is [TS]

  yeah it's like a one-trick pony yeah [TS]

  well I have mixed feelings about this [TS]

  because I feel like it's gonna be like [TS]

  super overblown but if you think about [TS]

  the matrix which is I think it's 1999 [TS]

  maybe a long time ago now but i feel [TS]

  like the matrix set up like the modern [TS]

  story of the world of like this is a [TS]

  story about how the world is not what [TS]

  you really think it is and particularly [TS]

  is related to technology and I'm totally [TS]

  fine with this as a story archetype that [TS]

  is repeated over and over again and I [TS]

  feel like that's particularly a modern [TS]

  story archetype that like technology [TS]

  makes the world not as it truly seems [TS]

  yeah I felt like season 3 leaned on that [TS]

  a bit too much with a number of the [TS]

  episodes and so it's like episode to [TS]

  play test the San junipero episode as [TS]

  well like that leans on this idea of the [TS]

  world that you see is not really what it [TS]

  is and episode 5 the one that you were [TS]

  watching as a similar kind of thing of [TS]

  like Oh what the people are seeing is [TS]

  not really what's occurring in the world [TS]

  and so like while I don't mind that [TS]

  as a story type i feel like in a [TS]

  six-episode season four three of the [TS]

  episodes to turn on that exact same [TS]

  point was like a little bit too many [TS]

  right I felt a little bit like I know [TS]

  this i'm fine with this story but not [TS]

  like three times in a row and my fine [TS]

  with it i just had episode 5 support me [TS]

  by the way people say just so you know [TS]

  that's okay i knew i was walking into [TS]

  the spoilers i'm so sorry and you're [TS]

  here with us [TS]

  I know you're here with us so you're in [TS]

  this part is known as well I couldn't [TS]

  exactly for podcasting come watch it i [TS]

  could I know you couldn't [TS]

  this is a hazard yet but being fair i [TS]

  think probably five is by far and away [TS]

  the least interesting one in the sixth [TS]

  episode season [TS]

  yeah that's this jelly right and also [TS]

  there is kind of the citizen that goes [TS]

  through i mean i know it's sort of [TS]

  defines the series is called black [TS]

  mirrors no of course there is this [TS]

  strong streak of cynicism through and [TS]

  and charlie brooker who I really like [TS]

  all his work even with such a cynical [TS]

  guy and that runs through and if you [TS]

  watch the mini-marathon it does start to [TS]

  weigh heavily on you you start thinking [TS]

  come on man like you know how bad can [TS]

  the world be but you don't watch this [TS]

  series if you're not up for some of that [TS]

  yeah exactly that no one's thinking you [TS]

  know what I love I love a fun carefree [TS]

  evening let me put on some of the old [TS]

  black mirror [TS]

  yeah I need a real pick-me-up something [TS]

  light something to make me smile you [TS]

  know like that's not what black mirror [TS]

  is for now but that being said I do want [TS]

  to say like on the flip side like this [TS]

  is my little bit of a criticism of [TS]

  series 3 but on the flipside like [TS]

  there's so many things about the series [TS]

  that i absolutely love and top on that [TS]

  list is I just love the way technology [TS]

  is simply used and accepted in a lot of [TS]

  the episodes i think there's a episode [TS]

  number three which is a shut up and [TS]

  dance which has the characters being [TS]

  blackmailed by people on the internet [TS]

  into doing things yeah I think like that [TS]

  was a great episode where I was just so [TS]

  aware of they have characters who are [TS]

  just using technology like you would [TS]

  expect normal people in the world to you [TS]

  right there using gps on their phone [TS]

  they're using map tracking there's a [TS]

  drone at one point and the drone is just [TS]

  you [TS]

  who's nobody feels they need to comment [TS]

  on it or explain what it is i I'm often [TS]

  aware when i'm watching modern TV or [TS]

  movies that technology ends up falling [TS]

  into one of two things [TS]

  it's either used as just magic that can [TS]

  solve any problem in a ridiculous way or [TS]

  I often feel that the writers are trying [TS]

  to like right around the existence of [TS]

  cell phones because cellphones solve so [TS]

  many plot problems in movies [TS]

  yeah right like that the writers are [TS]

  trying to like get around this and so [TS]

  characters never just use phones in the [TS]

  way that a normal person would it's one [TS]

  of the things that I absolutely loved [TS]

  about watching black Mary's like this is [TS]

  a show that understands and portrays [TS]

  technology just as people in the real [TS]

  world would use it the characters in the [TS]

  show don't feel the need to comment on [TS]

  or explain to the audience what is going [TS]

  on like they just assume that you're [TS]

  going to get it [TS]

  yeah and so I absolutely love that in [TS]

  the show like something about that makes [TS]

  it feel super grounded and super real [TS]

  that the characters don't need to [TS]

  explain or comment on this stuff and [TS]

  people use technology in a realistic way [TS]

  that isn't magic or isn't avoidance for [TS]

  plot reasons the one episode that I [TS]

  think fell down a little bit in that [TS]

  respect perhaps was the final episode 67 [TS]

  with the robotic base and because i felt [TS]

  like the four episodes i watched before [TS]

  that felt like they weren't [TS]

  condescending and they were quite [TS]

  believable and they felt like they were [TS]

  made for like a young audience and then [TS]

  and the 61 felt like it was made like a [TS]

  Hollywood movie but it was how Hollywood [TS]

  will trade technology with robotic bees [TS]

  burrowing into brains and lots of [TS]

  hand-wavy are he's hacked the system or [TS]

  we can't we're locked out we're locked [TS]

  in and it was like it was kind of like [TS]

  black hat hackers who can do these [TS]

  amazing things no one understands I felt [TS]

  like that one dropped the ball in that [TS]

  respect I still thought they were [TS]

  interesting things raised in the episode [TS]

  interesting conundrums and it was [TS]

  thought provoking [TS]

  but it was the one that felt like they [TS]

  sold out a bit and even the way they [TS]

  ended that when I feel that they sold [TS]

  out a little bit too so that felt a bit [TS]

  like the black shape that one stuck out [TS]

  not least because it was 90 minutes long [TS]

  it was essentially like movie length and [TS]

  I'm not really sure that needed to be [TS]

  the case but when I was watching that [TS]

  one as the last one that i was watching [TS]

  I was really thinking this is very [TS]

  Twilight Zone II but not in the good way [TS]

  in the way that some of the bad episodes [TS]

  are just like we're doing a silly thing [TS]

  and here we have robotic bees digging [TS]

  into people's brains in their pain [TS]

  centers and yeah i'm i'm kinda with you [TS]

  on that one that one just didn't quite [TS]

  land for me [TS]

  yeah but also when I kept thinking of [TS]

  was this show is obviously has super [TS]

  high production values but those bees [TS]

  man that is some of the worst cgi i have [TS]

  seen in a long time [TS]

  uh-huh that's hash that slashes [TS]

  middle-of-the-road I've seen worse i [TS]

  mean i have seen worse but not in [TS]

  something with high production values is [TS]

  this and it's just like it kept breaking [TS]

  me out of it every time that these bees [TS]

  were walking around like this cgi looks [TS]

  awful like it doesn't look like the bees [TS]

  are on the surface it doesn't look like [TS]

  the bees are in this scene it fell into [TS]

  that uncanny valley for me where it's [TS]

  like it's just to CGI it doesn't work [TS]

  here and there just in viewing the base [TS]

  with powers that they couldn't have like [TS]

  surgical precision to find parts of [TS]

  human brains and I had a few issues with [TS]

  that episode but it was like 80 he was [TS]

  okay it wasn't a waste of my time [TS]

  this is the thing to say is like none of [TS]

  these episodes that i feel like i've [TS]

  wasted my time afterwards I have seen [TS]

  plenty of movies where I feel like boy [TS]

  was that a waste of my life right there [TS]

  two hours just got but I was just a [TS]

  we're like felt like that the wheels are [TS]

  coming off a little bit a couple points [TS]

  here but even in that last episode it [TS]

  had a good example of what I mean where [TS]

  the characters at a couple points use [TS]

  self-driving cars and i like that they [TS]

  felt no need to even point out that [TS]

  their self-driving cars like it's just [TS]

  the characters use it really naturally [TS]

  it's like everybody understands what's [TS]

  going on [TS]

  and even if you miss it that the cars [TS]

  yourself driving it doesn't matter [TS]

  because they're just getting the [TS]

  characters from one place to another [TS]

  it's that kind of stuff that I like they [TS]

  don't feel the need to linger on or [TS]

  explain stuff just like we all know its [TS]

  self-driving cars are we all understand [TS]

  how this works and this is why the [TS]

  interior seating arrangement of this car [TS]

  is a little bit strange but if you don't [TS]

  notice it doesn't matter and you can [TS]

  just keep moving right along [TS]

  I don't hundred percent agree with you [TS]

  there i think episode 6 was a little bit [TS]

  self-conscious about the self-driving [TS]

  cars they reference to a couple of times [TS]

  you know the girl who doesn't Drive she [TS]

  says I'm gonna wait for self-driving [TS]

  cars to become a bit more mainstream and [TS]

  then when they get in the self-driving [TS]

  car with like the equivalent of the FBI [TS]

  guy they do comment on it and how this [TS]

  is an even better one and have seen [TS]

  before so I think that episode was a bit [TS]

  self-driving cars of country but i agree [TS]

  with your overall point about the series [TS]

  it does integrate technology in a very [TS]

  believable way which is unusual [TS]

  so everyone's dying to go great with [TS]

  which is the episode that you haven't [TS]

  said you liked it there just one that [TS]

  you particularly want to talk about so [TS]

  what I said that there's one that stuck [TS]

  with me i feel like in each of the [TS]

  seasons there's an episode that stuck [TS]

  with me in season one has mentioned many [TS]

  times it's the 15 million merits which i [TS]

  think is probably still there best one [TS]

  to date the thing that I think about yep [TS]

  all the time season 2 which is what sort [TS]

  of mentally including the Christmas [TS]

  episode like that christmas episode [TS]

  still haunts me like I mean that word [TS]

  like that christmas episode haunts me [TS]

  it is now Christmastime in the UK and I [TS]

  swear to God when I hear that Christmas [TS]

  song it sends literal shivers down my [TS]

  spine still write like it's just like I [TS]

  can't hear that song and not think about [TS]

  that episode it's horrible [TS]

  thanks charlie brooker I can't remember [TS]

  which socket was it's that I wish it [TS]

  would be christmas everyday I think [TS]

  maybe it stands out particularly for me [TS]

  because this is not an American [TS]

  christmas song is just a totally foreign [TS]

  and bizarre christmas song so it's like [TS]

  I was introduced to it in this nightmare [TS]

  scenario i can so that's why it's like [TS]

  when I hear it I just absolutely shutter [TS]

  ok and so then for me in season three I [TS]

  think the standout episode by far is get [TS]

  ready for disappointment people it's not [TS]

  the one you want [TS]

  its nose dive that's the one that really [TS]

  stuck out to me and i thought was [TS]

  surprisingly was very very affecting the [TS]

  people who sort of can't remember the [TS]

  names are the numbers which episode was [TS]

  this one so nosedive is the episode [TS]

  about [TS]

  people reading each other on their [TS]

  phones with five star force star ratings [TS]

  it's the episode with the woman who is [TS]

  going to the wedding to give the [TS]

  bridesmaid speech that one to me just [TS]

  really felt like quintessential black [TS]

  mirror everything about it just really [TS]

  landed for me I loved the visual design [TS]

  like the way it looked at all of the [TS]

  characters are in this like happy pastel [TS]

  land and they're all smiley and giving [TS]

  each other five star ratings but it was [TS]

  able to just very very effectively like [TS]

  tap into my anxiety as I was watching [TS]

  that and that one just really really [TS]

  landed for me quite strongly you don't [TS]

  agree you know what I don't agree [TS]

  well I tell me what are you thinking [TS]

  well that thing you point out that kind [TS]

  of pastoral look of them and kind of the [TS]

  over-the-top friendliness that everyone [TS]

  has to each other who was so exaggerated [TS]

  who I wasn't able to suspend my [TS]

  disbelief enough and I know like Edward [TS]

  Scissorhands which is one of my favorite [TS]

  films is very much like this as well as [TS]

  this kind of very unrealistic suburbia [TS]

  where everyone's dressed in pastels and [TS]

  move is really overly friendly to each [TS]

  other in a way that is paradise but it [TS]

  didn't quite work as well as it doesn't [TS]

  Edward Scissorhands and for that reason [TS]

  i didn't get immersed in the episode as [TS]

  much I never kind of sympathize store [TS]

  empathized with the main character [TS]

  because I never really saw her as a real [TS]

  person who when things start going wrong [TS]

  for her and her rating nosedives I don't [TS]

  really care about her very much because [TS]

  I didn't think it was a real person [TS]

  anyway to start with who [TS]

  so the whole episode didn't grab me at [TS]

  that kind of visceral level where i was [TS]

  watching and getting sort of scared by [TS]

  or thinking our gosh this could happen [TS]

  to me or this is terrible for me it was [TS]

  more just an interesting commentary on [TS]

  social media and ratings and things like [TS]

  that and in that respect I thought it [TS]

  was really good and really good [TS]

  observations and it probably like you [TS]

  probably affected me maybe more than all [TS]

  the other episodes to who [TS]

  but not in the right way not in that way [TS]

  more just in a that's interesting way i [TS]

  did like it I do think it was really [TS]

  good idea [TS]

  it was really good it was so good that I [TS]

  actually told my wife afterwards that [TS]

  she must not watch it for why I don't [TS]

  know because I think she's a bit cynical [TS]

  about social media and doesn't like the [TS]

  way we place so much importance on all [TS]

  the ratings and that and that's what [TS]

  this was about and I think she would [TS]

  watch this and it was just infuriated [TS]

  her even more with what I said to her [TS]

  are you find it really interesting it's [TS]

  about this sort of future world where [TS]

  your social media ratings and likes and [TS]

  things are really important and [TS]

  everyone's really heavily judged on the [TS]

  movie she said what you mean like now so [TS]

  i had a funny experience with watching [TS]

  this episode because one of the key plot [TS]

  points in the episode is how people star [TS]

  ratings affects their real-world ability [TS]

  to be able to get a discount on a nice [TS]

  home or like which cars can they rent or [TS]

  what towns can they go into if you don't [TS]

  have a star rating above a certain level [TS]

  you're not able to access those [TS]

  resources and also this idea that the [TS]

  companies are wanting to provide rewards [TS]

  to highly start highly influential users [TS]

  within the social system [TS]

  yeah and it enters being weird because [TS]

  in the week immediately preceding [TS]

  watching this episode I had two [TS]

  conversations with 2 totally unrelated [TS]

  people who work with companies whose [TS]

  whole job is to find influencers on [TS]

  social media and get them to use [TS]

  products like to explicitly like pay [TS]

  people to just wear certain brands of [TS]

  shoes on their Instagram accounts and [TS]

  the thing that was amazing to me is like [TS]

  okay I knew this existed right obviously [TS]

  this is a thing that exists if you have [TS]

  millions of followers on Instagram you [TS]

  have value in promoting products to two [TS]

  companies but the thing that was [TS]

  baffling to me was these companies were [TS]

  going after what i would consider people [TS]

  very very low down on the Instagram and [TS]

  Twitter totem poles like people with [TS]

  more followers than average but not like [TS]

  hundreds of thousands of followers their [TS]

  explicit strategy was we just want [TS]

  people to see popular people using our [TS]

  products and so it just ended up being [TS]

  like a weird thing that I had [TS]

  two separate conversations about like [TS]

  more or less the same phenomenon of sort [TS]

  of normal but well-regarded people in a [TS]

  social network ending up getting like [TS]

  rewards and bonuses for their popularity [TS]

  and their high ratings it just ended up [TS]

  feeling like boy this is this is like a [TS]

  little too weird and and real to a [TS]

  conversation that I've just had with two [TS]

  different people at two different [TS]

  companies doing like exactly this [TS]

  it was very strange that's what's so [TS]

  scary about this episode I mean it's [TS]

  basically it shows a society where [TS]

  what's happening now has just been made [TS]

  a little bit more formalized and overt [TS]

  but this is already happening [TS]

  I mean you see and lots of things I've [TS]

  been around the same time i watch [TS]

  nosedive I had a similar experience [TS]

  where I was doing something with YouTube [TS]

  like filling out some forms for some [TS]

  program or something you know to do with [TS]

  the bureaucracy behind the same and [TS]

  things you're asked to fill out is you [TS]

  know how many subscribers just your [TS]

  channel have little have any views if [TS]

  you had what is your most viewed video [TS]

  who this is part of the process now who [TS]

  I applied to do something one time i [TS]

  think it was like a social media event [TS]

  with NASA or something to go to an event [TS]

  which I couldn't end up going to but [TS]

  filling out the application form was [TS]

  whats your twitter handle [TS]

  how many Twitter followers do you have [TS]

  to lose our YouTube channel how many [TS]

  YouTube subscribers do you have and it [TS]

  will feel very quantitative and not very [TS]

  qualitative it wasn't like you know what [TS]

  do you make videos about what are your [TS]

  ideas you know what you want to say [TS]

  right it was just give us the data give [TS]

  us the numbers that was clearly a big [TS]

  part in the decision process and so it's [TS]

  it's happening all the time already [TS]

  yeah and the other thing about that was [TS]

  just too real was a few months ago I [TS]

  can't remember the company's name but [TS]

  there was a social media startup that [TS]

  was doing this exact thing that they [TS]

  wanted to be a place that could collect [TS]

  rankings just about individuals and [TS]

  where people could rate individuals and [TS]

  it ended up crashing and burning because [TS]

  there was a really big backlash of [TS]

  people pushing against it saying like [TS]

  they don't they don't want a website [TS]

  that's just readings for people in [TS]

  general and the site was was trying to [TS]

  pull together like what are all of your [TS]

  various accounts like let's try to form [TS]

  some kind of unique identifier of [TS]

  you that can be rated by everybody but I [TS]

  feel like yeah that one crash and it [TS]

  didn't work but I feel like this is [TS]

  essentially inevitable like I will be [TS]

  pretty surprised if this doesn't [TS]

  eventually come about that there's some [TS]

  kind of centralized aggregate one to [TS]

  five star rating database for individual [TS]

  people i think that's one of the reasons [TS]

  why i liked this episode struck me [TS]

  because it is one of these cases where I [TS]

  was trying to figure out like a little [TS]

  bit of an inconsistency in my own mind [TS]

  about the star ratings because as I've [TS]

  mentioned before on this very podcast [TS]

  one of the things that i think lewbert's [TS]

  should do is make the star ratings of [TS]

  the customers more immediately apparent [TS]

  to the users of the system that i think [TS]

  this would actually encourage good [TS]

  behavior on behalf of not just the [TS]

  drivers but also the customers right and [TS]

  like have a little bit of a feedback [TS]

  loop into people who were total dicks [TS]

  right that maybe other people think [TS]

  you're a total dick to but try to think [TS]

  about like why am i okay with that in [TS]

  the uber scenario but I really don't [TS]

  like the idea of this website where you [TS]

  can read people on a one to five star [TS]

  rating and I think the conclusion I've [TS]

  come to is I'm okay with ratings in like [TS]

  specific transactional circumstances but [TS]

  I think the reason why I found this [TS]

  episode very anxiety-inducing to watch [TS]

  is I don't think it makes sense and i [TS]

  don't think it's fair to have like an [TS]

  aggregate rating just for person that's [TS]

  like them across all spectrums yeah how [TS]

  do they interact with people in public [TS]

  how do they interact with people in [TS]

  private how do they interact with people [TS]

  at their office like I don't think it's [TS]

  good to collapse all of those to a [TS]

  single dimension yeah well I feel like a [TS]

  much more okay with how are you in an [TS]

  uber car in a transactional environment [TS]

  then I feel very comfortable with star [TS]

  ratings and think they're good i think [TS]

  that's the conclusion that I've come to [TS]

  about how do i think through when are [TS]

  these things ok and when are they [TS]

  oh ok that's fair enough yeah that makes [TS]

  sense [TS]

  the other reason why I think this [TS]

  episode hit me particularly hard not [TS]

  related to technology but my general [TS]

  feeling of how do big problems happen is [TS]

  that in my experience in life big [TS]

  problems are the result of a sum of [TS]

  small problems [TS]

  none of which individually would be an [TS]

  issue but all of which together form a [TS]

  real tragedy that was the other reason [TS]

  like this episode just had the right [TS]

  hooks for my brain because this is my [TS]

  experience and this is how I think that [TS]

  like a series of small problems leads to [TS]

  a huge problem which is essentially how [TS]

  the entire episode unfolds and that's [TS]

  why i like my anxiety just kept getting [TS]

  like ramped up and ramped up and ramped [TS]

  up as I guess she keeps dropping her [TS]

  numbers a little bit and the more her [TS]

  numbers dropped like the more that [TS]

  causes more problems like I found that [TS]

  very hard to watch hard to the point at [TS]

  which after the episode was over it [TS]

  occurred to me to check my Apple watch [TS]

  heart rate data and sure enough like you [TS]

  can see the data of my heart rate [TS]

  increasing as a function of time as the [TS]

  episode goes on as I was just sitting [TS]

  there watching it so it's like this one [TS]

  struck me right in the heart [TS]

  ok did you recommend it to people like [TS]

  you said your wife how you should watch [TS]

  this one are friends on that all i [TS]

  actually ended up just watching this one [TS]

  twice because I've i felt like i was a [TS]

  little bit too involved in it the first [TS]

  time and so I watch it a second time [TS]

  actually with my wife just before [TS]

  reporting this and i'll just say that [TS]

  black mirror is not a show for my wife [TS]

  when it was over her conclusion was just [TS]

  well that was horrible for like a [TS]

  conversation over text let's talk about [TS]

  something else [TS]

  yeah fair enough there was no version in [TS]

  which I was ever going to make my wife's [TS]

  it through all of the episodes but i [TS]

  just happen to want to rewatch this one [TS]

  before recorded and she happened to be [TS]

  in the room so it's like I'm going to [TS]

  put this on you can watch it if you want [TS]

  but I'm not sure this is for you and it [TS]

  was not for her not for her at all so [TS]

  the one that lots of people seem to want [TS]

  to hear you talk about was the one [TS]

  called sand junipero I'm just basing [TS]

  this on my own social media fades moment [TS]

  seems to be the one that people are [TS]

  talking about the most [TS]

  what did you think of that one this is [TS]

  the one by the way where people who are [TS]

  either sick or dead having uploaded to [TS]

  this beautiful perfect life by the beach [TS]

  and can live there happily ever after [TS]

  their brain in a big hard drive [TS]

  somewhere [TS]

  yeah the the san gennaro episode I'm [TS]

  surprised to hear that this is the one [TS]

  people wanted me to talk about I just [TS]

  presumed that of course the one that [TS]

  struck me the most would also be the one [TS]

  that people are requesting the most [TS]

  planets that's not the case that was an [TS]

  episode where I did feel a little bit [TS]

  bored in the first half it was a slow [TS]

  burn [TS]

  they took too long to get where they [TS]

  need to be yeah and I feel like this [TS]

  episode should have been more aware of [TS]

  the fact that you know you're a black [TS]

  mirror episode right like there's no [TS]

  mystery here everyone's waiting for an [TS]

  thing you know what when they first [TS]

  opened the scene and it's it's taking [TS]

  place in the nineteen eighties I thought [TS]

  for maybe a minute and 90 seconds ago [TS]

  it'll be interesting to see if they [TS]

  actually do a black mirror episode that [TS]

  is set in the past like I was kind of [TS]

  wondering what could you do maybe [TS]

  there's an interesting story to do there [TS]

  but it became like as soon as they [TS]

  started running through the music it's [TS]

  like oh no this is a cartoon version of [TS]

  the nineteen eighties right this is not [TS]

  supposed to be the actual nineteen [TS]

  eighties and so yummy just immediately [TS]

  like well I'm watching a black mirror [TS]

  episode obviously this is some kind of [TS]

  simulation or something [TS]

  yeah and I did feel like it took way too [TS]

  long to get to the behind-the-scenes [TS]

  like there isn't really any mystery here [TS]

  people when you keep jumping in time and [TS]

  it's always nighttime and everybody's [TS]

  referencing midnight I just I felt like [TS]

  the first half of that episode didn't [TS]

  really work [TS]

  I mean the only bait-and-switch was [TS]

  always it's about time travel but that [TS]

  seems unlikely for a blackberry episode [TS]

  and sure enough it wasn't about time [TS]

  travel that's fine that's even cross my [TS]

  mind is a possibility i was just like [TS]

  waiting for the thing and then I felt [TS]

  the simulation reveal on that one was [TS]

  not particularly surprising by the time [TS]

  they get there because they took their [TS]

  sweet sweet time to get there so yeah it [TS]

  was one of the two episodes where I [TS]

  noticed that like I took out my phone [TS]

  and did a couple things at one point is [TS]

  like whoo that's not a good sign but [TS]

  it's like I got distracted by myself for [TS]

  a little bit of it but [TS]

  I mean again it's good TV like I don't [TS]

  regret spending my time on it but I'm a [TS]

  little bit surprised that this is the [TS]

  one that people seem to want to ask [TS]

  about because I'm not even really sure [TS]

  like what is it that people are [TS]

  wondering about i mean i have to say i [TS]

  thought the first half of it was a bit [TS]

  slow em I thought the second half was [TS]

  very compelling movement was amongst the [TS]

  best part of the whole series for me [TS]

  so why do you think that I liked the [TS]

  sort of discussions that are raised and [TS]

  the thoughts that made me think would I [TS]

  want to do that and what do you do if [TS]

  someone else you love hasn't gone into [TS]

  it and it made a conscious decision not [TS]

  to be uploaded and then she was like [TS]

  well I don't want to do it because my [TS]

  husband didn't and my daughter died it [TS]

  raised a lot of like emotional issues [TS]

  that spoke to me but also I just thought [TS]

  it was quite compelling story and there [TS]

  were some nice little twists and turns [TS]

  towards the end and I thought the final [TS]

  saying was very powerful would let you [TS]

  know the blinking lights of the servers [TS]

  just reminding us all that this is all [TS]

  happening in a server was a really nice [TS]

  ending who I think the reason people [TS]

  want to hear from you on it is because [TS]

  you know you're so interested in things [TS]

  like consciousness and free will and [TS]

  stuff like that [TS]

  I think they probably just wonder what [TS]

  you think of the technology I think it [TS]

  goes without saying that love to be [TS]

  uploaded to what if you could [TS]

  yeah but also I think anyone who's [TS]

  listen to the show would probably expect [TS]

  my answer which is that in the episode [TS]

  while the elderly and the sick are using [TS]

  this virtual town San junipero to [TS]

  vacation in and they're they're able to [TS]

  experience this virtual world while I [TS]

  think that is the case in the end when [TS]

  they die and when they're uploading [TS]

  themselves into the cloud essentially to [TS]

  live in this thing forever i come down [TS]

  on the side that i am not convinced that [TS]

  it is actually possible to transfer your [TS]

  consciousness into a computer i think it [TS]

  will and it will inevitably be possible [TS]

  to transfer a copy that is [TS]

  indistinguishable from you when i'm [TS]

  watching that episode and you know this [TS]

  show is showing like oh well they these [TS]

  two characters have uploaded themselves [TS]

  into the server and they get to live [TS]

  here forever [TS]

  all I'm thinking is like well they're [TS]

  obviously dead and there's just these [TS]

  copies of them that are living on [TS]

  forever in the server but it's not them [TS]

  that would be like my actual take on [TS]

  what [TS]

  I think the technology would be so know [TS]

  what I expect to hear from you but I [TS]

  feel like that's obviously what I would [TS]

  be thinking I just never thought you [TS]

  would have thought if you could get the [TS]

  right degree of complexity of the [TS]

  algorithm in the system that constitutes [TS]

  a Brady or gray that would count as a [TS]

  consciousness [TS]

  I thought you sort of thought [TS]

  consciousness was a sufficient level of [TS]

  complexity so you just gonna have big [TS]

  enough service with enough complexity to [TS]

  hit the tipping point for consciousness [TS]

  this is again a different thing I can [TS]

  fully believe that the copies are [TS]

  conscious and the copies think that they [TS]

  are the people who have lived their [TS]

  lives outside of the machine before [TS]

  being uploaded into the cloud [TS]

  yeah but that's a very different [TS]

  question from if I am imagining i am in [TS]

  a bed dying and something is being [TS]

  uploaded to the cloud from this machine [TS]

  that sits on my forehead and reads my [TS]

  brain waves or whatever I still say that [TS]

  like my expectation is that my personal [TS]

  experiences I close my eyes and I die [TS]

  and it's lights out forever and on the [TS]

  server a thing wakes up and has the [TS]

  subjective experience that it has been [TS]

  just transferred into the Machine and [TS]

  now gets to live forever but I don't see [TS]

  any reason to expect that would be me [TS]

  this really does go back to like the [TS]

  transporter problem because it's the [TS]

  same issue of whatever you're uploading [TS]

  you could probably do it without having [TS]

  to have the person on the other end died [TS]

  so I don't see any reason to think that [TS]

  it's anything except a perfect copy and [TS]

  not not an actual transfer of [TS]

  consciousness I mean this is a director [TS]

  of what we're talking about with the [TS]

  cryogenic freezing table I said I [TS]

  thought the person a thousand years [TS]

  probably wouldn't be me well that's why [TS]

  I think it's really interesting stories [TS]

  taking the opposite opinion here like [TS]

  you think you could be uploaded into a [TS]

  computer and that it would be you [TS]

  no no that's not what you're saying I'm [TS]

  just surprised that you don't think it [TS]

  but i have no particular opinion on it [TS]

  I mean they don't really address that [TS]

  technology and the episode it could be [TS]

  possible that you can only be in one [TS]

  place at once and when you're holidaying [TS]

  in San junipero you know you're not also [TS]

  in yourself and when you get uploaded [TS]

  out of your body they take something you [TS]

  know they have to take something away i [TS]

  don't know about ya episode doesn't [TS]

  really touch on [TS]

  yeah yeah they're just another kind of [TS]

  blowing past it but I think in any kind [TS]

  of reasonable thinking like what could [TS]

  this machine possibly be doing like or [TS]

  what is a machine that we could possibly [TS]

  build in the future and we've touched on [TS]

  consciousness so many times but I i [TS]

  really do have this I mean it's a gut [TS]

  feeling it's not based on anything [TS]

  obviously but i think that my subjective [TS]

  experience of being me is probably tied [TS]

  to my actual biological brain in a way [TS]

  that is not removable right in a way [TS]

  that is copyable but not removable which [TS]

  is why like I have a very hard time [TS]

  imagining like even if lifespans get [TS]

  expanded like it's you know a thousand [TS]

  years in the future i have a very hard [TS]

  time imagining that I would ever really [TS]

  want to upload myself into a machine [TS]

  because I feel like I'm pretty convinced [TS]

  that that would be my subjective death [TS]

  even if everybody else around me was [TS]

  like oh you love that you finally [TS]

  uploaded yourself into the cloud isn't [TS]

  this awesome right and like cloud me [TS]

  would be going yeah i don't know why i [TS]

  never did this before what a fool I was [TS]

  right but like actual biological meet [TS]

  would just be dead right [TS]

  dead dead dead that's my feeling about [TS]

  it so I got to keep the brain going [TS]

  occasionally I get these little glimpses [TS]

  of hope for Humanity occasionally gray [TS]

  you make me happy when understand what [TS]

  you mean by that why is a glimpse for [TS]

  probably because that's sort of half [TS]

  surprises me that's your view like that [TS]

  you have that kind of attachment to your [TS]

  mortal coil patent that you place that [TS]

  importance on your on your mushy self [TS]

  makes me a little bit happy but can you [TS]

  freeze these things always so wrong and [TS]

  it's a strange way my attachment mr. [TS]

  being alive right like yeah my [TS]

  attachment is not to like oh this human [TS]

  body it's fantastic know it's a horrible [TS]

  pile of rotting meat that we drive [TS]

  around it and if i could upload myself [TS]

  into the cloud I would well I guess what [TS]

  I'm saying is I'm happy that your [TS]

  definition of life is so attached to [TS]

  your mushy self [TS]

  yeah but it's not the way I would want [TS]

  it to be if I could snap my fingers and [TS]

  when you say something and I say that [TS]

  makes me happy that you think that you [TS]

  immediately rile up and say all with [TS]

  that makes pretty happy about I must [TS]

  have to rephrase it because know the [TS]

  reason I have to rephrase it is because [TS]

  when you're happy it's almost always [TS]

  based on some kind of bizarre misunder [TS]

  standing of what I'm saying and now i [TS]

  want to i basically what i do is you say [TS]

  something that makes me happy until [TS]

  you've made me happy but then I put it [TS]

  to you in another way that you didn't [TS]

  say it was you up if right you say it in [TS]

  a way that is wrong preference is what I [TS]

  feel the need to correct it [TS]

  I want nothing more than a brady to be [TS]

  happy but you take my thoughts [TS]

  Andrea express them in a way that I [TS]

  don't agree with and so I feel compelled [TS]

  to correct you [TS]

  that's what's going there just quickly [TS]

  the two other episodes we haven't talked [TS]

  about really at all other than briefly [TS]

  but i have watched i'll ask you what you [TS]

  thought of them play test episode to [TS]

  this sort of the video game brain [TS]

  implant one I thought that was quite [TS]

  cool i thought it was a cool episode [TS]

  that's the word I would use to describe [TS]

  I like the style of the story I thought [TS]

  it was cool yeah i can give it a [TS]

  coolness i can go along with that I kind [TS]

  of like the setup of it i did like that [TS]

  whoever was writing the script was [TS]

  clearly super into video games because [TS]

  that script was just packed full of [TS]

  little video game references and it [TS]

  really did feel like whoever's writing [TS]

  this knows their stuff right like would [TS]

  you kindly open the door it's like as a [TS]

  perfect line at that moment which like [TS]

  indicates that the person writing this [TS]

  knows what they're talking about [TS]

  I did like the kind of nintendo style [TS]

  CEO of the company i enjoyed watching it [TS]

  the only thing was i'm just generally [TS]

  not a fan of the horror genre like this [TS]

  was a horror episode for the most part [TS]

  and most of the time when i'm watching [TS]

  horror I just feel kind of bored right [TS]

  or they're using jumpscares to try to [TS]

  get a reaction out of you and I did [TS]

  think it was funny that this episode [TS]

  kind of commented on the jump-scares [TS]

  it's like oh he knows that he's waiting [TS]

  for jumpscares but I did have a note [TS]

  which is like jump scares are annoying [TS]

  even when you're playing with the idea [TS]

  of jump-scares like instant it still [TS]

  doesn't change what it is because the [TS]

  jump-scares just like poking someone in [TS]

  a sensitive spot is like if you're doing [TS]

  it ironically like you're still poking [TS]

  someone in the reflective spot and they [TS]

  can't do anything about it so I thought [TS]

  it was fine i did like that it was it [TS]

  was a bit of a different take on the [TS]

  like we can [TS]

  necessarily trust the world around us [TS]

  but it wasn't firmly for me partly [TS]

  because of the genre that it happened to [TS]

  be said in fair enough and shut up and [TS]

  dance the sort of the black myo filming [TS]

  you on your webcam and getting the dirt [TS]

  on everyone and then making them do [TS]

  weird stuff I felt weird about this one [TS]

  what do you think of it [TS]

  yeah it was there was a bit of a strange [TS]

  episode in a way I felt like it was kind [TS]

  of believable and also ridiculous at the [TS]

  same time when he was kind of what I [TS]

  kept thinking of I thought it was [TS]

  implausible [TS]

  mmm yeah I can see that i felt like i [TS]

  was riding on the edge of the suspension [TS]

  of disbelief and I think as the further [TS]

  the episode went along the more my [TS]

  suspension was disbelieved is that how [TS]

  that works like the idea of blackmailing [TS]

  people and having them run errands and [TS]

  do stuff is like okay I can see this but [TS]

  when the episode starts to turn into [TS]

  like oh we're having them run all of [TS]

  these errands and having them do things [TS]

  to self-destruct themselves it's like [TS]

  okay well now I'm having a bit of a [TS]

  harder time going along with the [TS]

  plausibility of this like this is a lot [TS]

  of effort to ruin a few people's lives [TS]

  became a bit like moral crusading like [TS]

  you don't think it's more likely the [TS]

  troubles would have them to burbank for [TS]

  the money rather than teach them some [TS]

  big life lesson [TS]

  yeah that's where it started to get like [TS]

  I can't believe the resources that are [TS]

  being put into this and perhaps the note [TS]

  that rang most incorrect for me out of [TS]

  anything ever watch the black mirror was [TS]

  at the end when they have the [TS]

  blackmailers send the characters a [TS]

  little troll face on their phone that [TS]

  just playing wrong for me because I i [TS]

  have spent too much time on the internet [TS]

  to take that trollface seriously right [TS]

  so when they're trying to use that as [TS]

  like the gut punch at the end of the [TS]

  episode like lol it was all the joke [TS]

  it's like I can't take that seriously [TS]

  this can't be like that who look at us [TS]

  we're having a series ending to this [TS]

  episode and so that didn't quite work [TS]

  super well for me [TS]

  yeah there were a few things and that [TS]

  one that just didn't quite gel for may [TS]

  say my favorites were definitely San [TS]

  junipero playtesting nosedive [TS]

  I haven't watched men against fire em [TS]

  but you told me it's not that good and I [TS]

  didn't like start of it [TS]

  well I don't want to spoil anything for [TS]

  you so that's where we're literally in [TS]

  the spoilers I if you have to divide [TS]

  them into 32 watching three that you [TS]

  could give a past except just for the [TS]

  fun of it would be your three favorites [TS]

  obviously nosedive would be number one [TS]

  yeah i think i would probably put San [TS]

  junipero is number two [TS]

  maybe and then i'll probably put hated [TS]

  in the nation is number three as the [TS]

  next one to watch that leaves play test [TS]

  the horror one man against fire which i [TS]

  think is probably the worst of the bunch [TS]

  of my opinion and shut up and dances the [TS]

  three that I would feel like you're not [TS]

  missing a lot if you skip that make a [TS]

  nosedive San junipero hated the nation [TS]

  that would be my top three from the [TS]

  season well done black mirror I don't [TS]

  know if I can milk the cow again but [TS]

  I've done or I sipho it's very [TS]

  interesting because i feel like i was [TS]

  looking at the episodes from season one [TS]

  and season one you start out with the [TS]

  national anthem which is just sort of a [TS]

  bizarre story that stands on its own and [TS]

  same with 15 million merits which is a [TS]

  thing that stands on its own but then [TS]

  interestingly it ends with the entire [TS]

  history of you which is that episode [TS]

  about being able to record and playback [TS]

  everything in your life [TS]

  yeah but looking back on it I think that [TS]

  the entire history of us pisode is the [TS]

  episode that has laid out the black [TS]

  mirror universe in a sense yes yet this [TS]

  whole idea of a near-future world people [TS]

  have modern phones we all have contact [TS]

  lenses in our eyes and augmented reality [TS]

  and this universe that feels very real [TS]

  and very close and I feel like season [TS]

  three I feel like they may have used up [TS]

  that universe now I like a season to [TS]

  revisit it in a number of locations most [TS]

  notably in white Christmas it's like boy [TS]

  did they lean on that again [TS]

  and in a fantastic way but I think [TS]

  season three is like maybe we're done [TS]

  with this now and if there is going to [TS]

  be another series i would want to see [TS]

  probably more like a standalone episodes [TS]

  like create a little world and go [TS]

  through it and talk about it and come [TS]

  back like I'm not quite sure there's a [TS]

  lot more to be done in this entire [TS]

  history of you universe that they set [TS]

  out a few years ago they kind of pendant [TS]

  by their name those and because the [TS]

  whole you know the black mare name is [TS]

  holding up this mirror to our current [TS]

  society but with this black tinge this [TS]

  dark things so to veer away from that [TS]

  and start creating new worlds and not do [TS]

  that would kind of I guess the black [TS]

  mirror will just become a meaningless [TS]

  brand name that wouldn't you know well [TS]

  it should be cool bro neighbor it's very [TS]

  cool but I've always taken it to be the [TS]

  phone surfaces like I've always thought [TS]

  that was referring to like the like the [TS]

  ipad screens and the iphone screens are [TS]

  the black mirror like that though is how [TS]

  I really don't know I always thought it [TS]

  was like reflecting our society back to [TS]

  us but you know in a darker tone [TS]

  well this is why it's a fantastic brand [TS]

  name right like you can if you could [TS]

  read whatever you want into it [TS]

  cool black mirror season 3 still [TS]

  recommend it [TS]

  I feel like we sounded like we might be [TS]

  a little bit down on it but still [TS]

  recommend it definitely TV worth your [TS]

  time [TS]

  glad I finally got around to it and also [TS]

  super glad and thank you to my audience [TS]

  that i was able to get to it essentially [TS]

  spoiler-free which is the way I prefer [TS]

  to watch these things so very happy [TS]