Cortex 22: Statistics Aren't Everything


  I don't think that maybe have like just [TS]

  a very small handful of shows if that [TS]

  which have smaller audiences then way I [TS]

  don't know what I'm saying that sentence [TS]

  it was not working you gotta start over [TS]

  abort abort abort where I with Who am I [TS]

  again [TS]

  you don't sound so great Mike yeah i've [TS]

  been i've had like the worst potentially [TS]

  the worst illness i could have ball one [TS]

  what is now I need to know what is the [TS]

  bar one the ones doing this I could have [TS]

  his learning giants who but what do you [TS]

  have now I have a throat infection in my [TS]

  throat infection that is really damaging [TS]

  to my business that is a professional [TS]

  hazard [TS]

  yeah your line of work sir I'm surprised [TS]

  it's taking this long [TS]

  you've not had any throat infections or [TS]

  throat related illnesses in the entire [TS]

  time you've gone you got a full-time [TS]

  with podcasting that hasn't happened yet [TS]

  this is the first actual real illness [TS]

  ipad since I started really like this is [TS]

  the first thing that stopped me walking [TS]

  I noticed that you were sick enough that [TS]

  you were pulling back from some podcasts [TS]

  and not doing much work as you normally [TS]

  would on any which is yeah that's I've [TS]

  really liked to have been sick for maybe [TS]

  four or five days and I've done like [TS]

  some work one half day but I've dragged [TS]

  you out of bed to record cortex here you [TS]

  even make it sound I mean I need to tell [TS]

  the listeners how nice you've been to me [TS]

  the last few days I know it's breaking [TS]

  your character you know that you're not [TS]

  just a robot who you have actually been [TS]

  very nice to me [TS]

  you've been very accommodating it's [TS]

  actually in character because it's much [TS]

  less about you getting better and much [TS]

  more about like oh I don't have to [TS]

  record an episode this week I feel like [TS]

  you should see the thing I feel like [TS]

  you're trying to give the impression i [TS]

  like to believe that you genuinely care [TS]

  I happy to let you believe it [TS]

  I tell you what though it's finished [TS]

  range to actually be kind of in bed sick [TS]

  not working [TS]

  who this is the face of the first time [TS]

  that I've done this and it reminds me a [TS]

  little bit more of what it was like to [TS]

  work a job you know how so [TS]

  because when you work for yourself you [TS]

  kind of you do things you wouldn't [TS]

  otherwise do like you work on your [TS]

  holidays you know who you if you're if [TS]

  you've got a sore throat or you've got a [TS]

  stomachache or something then maybe you [TS]

  you are still more likely to just put up [TS]

  with it then [TS]

  where previous you might be like a dove [TS]

  great today I'm not going to go to work [TS]

  right but now it's like no I can't work [TS]

  and and that has been kind of a real [TS]

  peculiar thing for me like I've had [TS]

  stuff coming in of any emails come in [TS]

  and see what they are like I just can't [TS]

  do this but there's been some things [TS]

  I've needed to do with and I've been [TS]

  sending emails to be brown like I'm [TS]

  gonna have to get back to you in a few [TS]

  days because I'm not really with it [TS]

  right now and I've been genuinely [TS]

  worried that I would agree to something [TS]

  or say something that would be bad [TS]

  like I have to send a few emails to [TS]

  sponsors and stuff to let them know that [TS]

  some of the shows are going to be late [TS]

  and I read the emails back and it was [TS]

  like they were written by a [TS]

  nine-year-old like I don't know why but [TS]

  they were just stitch is written so [TS]

  badly and I was like okay I'm very [TS]

  pleased i decided to take a few days to [TS]

  just rest [TS]

  yeah so this wasn't the time to be [TS]

  renegotiating quarterly rates [TS]

  no no answer although I'm sorry to tell [TS]

  you that last one is now past [TS]

  twenty-five thousand episode let's look [TS]

  at it looks like i need to update some [TS]

  spreadsheets in mind that if it's going [TS]

  to change something [TS]

  yeah I've limited to the bottom of the [TS]

  list I'm not just merely sitting in [TS]

  anymore because we have to start a whole [TS]

  brand-new list i can't remember the [TS]

  first time that I was really sick after [TS]

  getting self-employed but I mean what [TS]

  one of the things is since I used to be [TS]

  a teacher i used to get sick way more [TS]

  because you're exposed to kids all the [TS]

  time which are super germany and so just [TS]

  like getting throat infections are just [TS]

  getting sick with a much more frequent [TS]

  occurrence and you're talkin all day you [TS]

  know you [TS]

  putting stress on those those parts of [TS]

  your body as well yeah you did you busy [TS]

  all day you're interacting with people [TS]

  and I just it's it's unavoidable so it [TS]

  seems like since i became self employed [TS]

  i am i'm sick much much less frequently [TS]

  but i am aware of the same thing at as [TS]

  you which is it just like in some ways [TS]

  when you're sick and you have a regular [TS]

  job [TS]

  it's like a snow day right he's like a [TS]

  grown-up snow days like you know what I [TS]

  don't feel very well today maybe I can't [TS]

  leave the house and I cuz I'm just I'm [TS]

  not doing well but in comparison to [TS]

  having to go into work this is a holiday [TS]

  that has been a weird part of me like [TS]

  once I once I kind of settled into my [TS]

  office where I was like whilst I feel [TS]

  terrible mean it's kind of nice to just [TS]

  lay in bed and one making a murderer who [TS]

  write which I watched over two days [TS]

  good that's the only way to watch it's [TS]

  the only way to do it relaxing is the [TS]

  wrong word because I horrible i actually [TS]

  haven't felt this ill years I can't [TS]

  remember the last time I felt this bad [TS]

  like not in my adult life anyway and so [TS]

  I've not atrocious but they're still win [TS]

  this part where it's like this is [TS]

  slightly different to regular but i have [TS]

  I I want to come back to this in a [TS]

  minute but there was one thing like you [TS]

  saying about getting sick as a as a [TS]

  teacher which makes sense [TS]

  no sitting in the doctor's like Howard [TS]

  doctors how how are they alive like all [TS]

  day they are seeing sick people right I [TS]

  don't understand how dr. stay healthy [TS]

  I mean I'd be curious to know but my [TS]

  presumption is that they don't my [TS]

  presumption is that doctors are are in [TS]

  an even worse position than teachers are [TS]

  I bet doctors take an enormous amount of [TS]

  sick time like they get sick much more [TS]

  than the general population they just [TS]

  have to it they cannot button and then I [TS]

  wonder is this some kind of like special [TS]

  medication to take it they keep the good [TS]

  stuff themselves do the cure all ills [TS]

  yeah and that's one of the things that [TS]

  you get with your doctor's license is [TS]

  awesome is also initiation into the [TS]

  Brotherhood of good medicine link when [TS]

  tell anybody else about like to give you [TS]

  a little note and you could give you a [TS]

  brown envelope [TS]

  so you just take one of these one time [TS]

  you set that but i think the general [TS]

  population feels like Oh doctors don't [TS]

  seem like they're sick but it's a [TS]

  selection bias because you're only able [TS]

  to make an appointment with the doctor [TS]

  when they're there right so you always [TS]

  see the doctor when the doctor is [TS]

  healthy and you feel like why doctors [TS]

  are always healthy how are they not take [TS]

  all the time I bet they actually are [TS]

  they have to be its she has to be like [TS]

  that you can't not then they see sick [TS]

  people like that is all they do they [TS]

  just talked to sick people they touch [TS]

  sick people look but don't touch people [TS]

  most of the time [TS]

  11 let's move on this is this is getting [TS]

  too much that you're looking at staying [TS]

  in bed [TS]

  one of the things i think of I've [TS]

  realized this time more than ever it's [TS]

  kind of a like I am in the kind of [TS]

  situation I men from from a [TS]

  self-employed perspective I kind of work [TS]

  in a small company right like does this [TS]

  mean Stephen and there's a bunch of [TS]

  other people who do multiple different [TS]

  things you know like hosts and we have [TS]

  people that help out over things kind of [TS]

  like the hosts take on something [TS]

  additional responsibilities depend on [TS]

  the shows that they do but it hasn't [TS]

  been an issue for me um people filled in [TS]

  for me that kind of stuff and it's been [TS]

  nice to know that like i have this [TS]

  system around me that I didn't really [TS]

  know before cuz I've never needed it or [TS]

  felt like I needed to use it feels like [TS]

  we're all everybody's always kind of [TS]

  helping each other out like you find [TS]

  busy with something or Stephen busy with [TS]

  something or whatever we might step in [TS]

  for each other but this has been like a [TS]

  week of me just not doing anything and [TS]

  its last I checked the business and [TS]

  crumbled to pieces [TS]

  you know yeah this is your first test of [TS]

  a bit of a support system [TS]

  yeah with the tiny company that you have [TS]

  built and its really nice to know that [TS]

  it's worked which made me think of you [TS]

  all up there in your little ivory tower [TS]

  of 10 what do you do when you get sick [TS]

  I mean the answer is I don't work and [TS]

  everything comes to an absolute grinding [TS]

  halt like this there's no there's no way [TS]

  around that it's actually just i was i [TS]

  was pretty sick for a couple days a few [TS]

  weeks ago and it was a similar thing [TS]

  like okay well nothing's going to happen [TS]

  now and nothing I can do about that is [TS]

  totally fine [TS]

  yeah i think it's maybe less of an issue [TS]

  because of the way that local businesses [TS]

  are made up right yeah the way that our [TS]

  business works in like with the show [TS]

  this has to continue to be made for [TS]

  money to be made right because of the [TS]

  way that the our advertising comes in [TS]

  but it's different with YouTube right [TS]

  the videos that are there not doesn't [TS]

  make as much money as if you're putting [TS]

  out new ones but they still generate [TS]

  money [TS]

  yeah the that is definitely one thing [TS]

  that I like about having the youtube [TS]

  videos up on YouTube is it provides a [TS]

  certain amount of semi passive income i [TS]

  haven't tested i haven't tested too long [TS]

  i mean there has to be there has to be [TS]

  some kind of half-life for if I don't [TS]

  upload videos in a year the the average [TS]

  daily views have to be going down i [TS]

  think the worst thing you could do is [TS]

  think about trying to test that you [TS]

  pushed it too far for like a year [TS]

  yeah if I'm sick [TS]

  it's not really a huge deal because I [TS]

  intentionally try to remove as many [TS]

  deadlines from my business as possible [TS]

  which is one of the reasons why cortex [TS]

  is always slightly annoying to me [TS]

  because you and your schedules and your [TS]

  deadlines it's like what is this thing [TS]

  in my life I have to be here at a time [TS]

  it's got it like Mike you know you're [TS]

  just so insistent about this because [TS]

  everything else is likely that you know [TS]

  hello internet will get out when it [TS]

  comes out when the video available when [TS]

  it's done you know like that's that's [TS]

  how I try to arrange things I feel like [TS]

  you must have known that this was going [TS]

  to be the case when we started this or [TS]

  at least you feel you thought you could [TS]

  change me [TS]

  yeah i don't i don't know what i was [TS]

  thinking back then i was probably sick [TS]

  when we first started talking about [TS]

  doing this and that's how you got me to [TS]

  agree there's something I think about is [TS]

  is like I'm just I'm just really aware [TS]

  that deadlines and me we don't get along [TS]

  I know they're I know there's a whole [TS]

  very large group of people who always [TS]

  talk about how they can possibly get [TS]

  anything done unless they have deadlines [TS]

  to motivate them and I find that I am [TS]

  just the absolute reverse that the more [TS]

  deadlines there are in my life the less [TS]

  i end up tending to work like deadlines [TS]

  are anti motivators for me [TS]

  oh I hate deadlines but I don't think of [TS]

  the schedules and deadlines it doesn't [TS]

  deadlines eat got sponsors you got [TS]

  people waiting for you there deadlines [TS]

  deadlines built into that [TS]

  yeah i mean i can see why you would seem [TS]

  like that but to me it's just the [TS]

  knowing that if i didn't have these [TS]

  things on a calendar there would never [TS]

  be anything them that's that's a bit of [TS]

  a that's a bit of a different thing but [TS]

  but anyway like I guess the point that I [TS]

  was just trying to get it like this is [TS]

  this sort of goes along with being sick [TS]

  and one of the best changes i made for [TS]

  my own psychological life in the history [TS]

  of my own self employment here was when [TS]

  patreon bought out subbable which was [TS]

  the platform that was previously using [TS]

  to do crowdfunding when that transition [TS]

  happen i had an opportunity to change [TS]

  from automatic monthly billing of the [TS]

  people who are supporting my youtube [TS]

  channel to changing that too only [TS]

  manually building them when i actually [TS]

  upload what I considered to be a quote [TS]

  real video whatever that happens in my [TS]

  head and I can see how much that that [TS]

  will help you and I mean here's the [TS]

  thing like like there is there is no [TS]

  doubt that i made more money under the [TS]

  old system preferences like [TS]

  month-by-month like you're automatically [TS]

  building someone but holy God that just [TS]

  add an enormous amount of stress and [TS]

  anxiety to my life that I really I [TS]

  really did not want and and so like like [TS]

  man that was I debated it for a little [TS]

  while whether or not to make that change [TS]

  and I am so happy I made that change [TS]

  because it just it felt like it [TS]

  eliminated this car [TS]

  instant deadline for my life it made [TS]

  every summer feel really guilty if i was [TS]

  traveling with family instead of working [TS]

  on other stuff because you just know [TS]

  like man when the 30th rolls around [TS]

  people are going to get billed whether [TS]

  you made something or not like if you [TS]

  got it up in time and it's just hated [TS]

  that so I am so happy to have it this [TS]

  way now did you feel kind of guilty [TS]

  well i mean if people knew what they [TS]

  like there was no guarantee that there [TS]

  was a video being made [TS]

  yeah yeah it's like guilt with guilt is [TS]

  not the correct feeling it was just a [TS]

  constant source of anxiety [TS]

  yeah and we've we've talked about this [TS]

  before right which is that when you were [TS]

  working for yourself it is very hard to [TS]

  separate when you're working from when [TS]

  you're not working in a personal time [TS]

  from the business time it's very hard to [TS]

  do anyway which is almost certainly why [TS]

  when you were laying in bed [TS]

  partly on death's door part of you was [TS]

  also thinking this is kind of nice [TS]

  because i'm forced to not work [TS]

  yeah like something else is forcing you [TS]

  to let go there was nothing I could do [TS]

  so it's like you can just not worry [TS]

  about it for a few days because you have [TS]

  no option [TS]

  I can't get up and try and go to that [TS]

  computer you will fold out before you [TS]

  get there you're gonna make a mess you [TS]

  know it's gonna be awful and and so when [TS]

  the building was just monthly anytime [TS]

  like as soon as the first of the month [TS]

  rolled around I just always had this [TS]

  anxious feeling of like I have to try to [TS]

  get something up now and until I have [TS]

  something up in this month it made it [TS]

  just impossible to not be thinking about [TS]

  work and not in a knot like a productive [TS]

  way like Oh on this amazing machine like [TS]

  doing all this work because i have this [TS]

  gun to my head every month it was just [TS]

  horrific unwelcome stress-inducing [TS]

  anxiety and then in situations like what [TS]

  we're talking about now if there was a [TS]

  time when I just couldn't work or like [TS]

  family needed me or wanted me to be [TS]

  available or was sick or something it [TS]

  was just awful like I really hated it so [TS]

  his the case i was very happy to switch [TS]

  to a system is like I will make less [TS]

  money under this new system and i will [TS]

  be so much happier [TS]

  let me tell you the the real benefit for [TS]

  this illness though because I mama on [TS]

  the diet right now [TS]

  right and control it better now yeah [TS]

  lost six pounds this week illness is [TS]

  great for weight loss i have also found [TS]

  yeah i am sitting proud moment on the [TS]

  scales and he weighed myself yesterday I [TS]

  was like yes illness way to go with this [TS]

  is amazing i should get infected more [TS]

  often so proud of you [TS]

  well yeah if it brought me and many [TS]

  weeks ahead i'm very happy about that [TS]

  and I hope that I can keep this this way [TS]

  as it is [TS]

  Thank You illness it'll come right back [TS]

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  shows on real afm Squarespace you should [TS]

  so you hit a milestone i think it was [TS]

  last week sometime and you you cross 2 [TS]

  million YouTube subscribers [TS]

  yeah just a course congratulations like [TS]

  I have and will congratulate you but you [TS]

  see it's something like that do you [TS]

  is it a badge of honor 2 million i I'm [TS]

  glad the numbers going up once you hit [TS]

  one but 1,000,000 hooray but like then [TS]

  he is it like the next one is it five [TS]

  like always every million as exciting as [TS]

  the first million if I could start over [TS]

  again I would celebrate every doubling [TS]

  from one subscriber that's what we do [TS]

  manorville celebration just at the [TS]

  beginning though [TS]

  yeah it's that it starts to get sad [TS]

  quite quickly [TS]

  that's me feels like the much more [TS]

  natural celebration point is a doubling [TS]

  doubling its not based on any number [TS]

  system is just it's ok you have twice as [TS]

  many as you had last time that you had [TS]

  the celebration that's that seems like [TS]

  the way it should be [TS]

  but this is not to belittle two million [TS]

  right because that is like cave is one [TS]

  of those numbers you know that you can't [TS]

  even comprehend [TS]

  yeah it just means nothing it's just so [TS]

  big like okay it's a population right [TS]

  it's not even a number at this point [TS]

  like you can't group that amount of [TS]

  people together [TS]

  look it's it's incredible number but [TS]

  it's like you know it's the whole thing [TS]

  you end up getting and I had this a lot [TS]

  when working in finance you get numb to [TS]

  know [TS]

  was after your around big numbers for a [TS]

  while I didn't you see these huge [TS]

  numbers and it doesn't really mean [TS]

  anything anymore [TS]

  can you work in a bank so you must have [TS]

  just seen numbers with crazy zeros on [TS]

  the end of them [TS]

  yeah okay billion here a billion there [TS]

  it starts adding up to be real money [TS]

  after a while like I just wanted because [TS]

  obviously i imagine that when you hit 1 [TS]

  million that was a real cause for [TS]

  celebration [TS]

  I've got to imagine that must have felt [TS]

  like you really achieved something [TS]

  ok so yes and no but this this starts to [TS]

  get into some of the particulars about [TS]

  like the way you tube does this and so [TS]

  yes I was super glad to hit a million [TS]

  subscribers but it's been very clear [TS]

  over the time that I've been doing this [TS]

  that I don't know you YouTube algorithms [TS]

  or like the way the system works has [TS]

  changed and so it's very hard to have a [TS]

  real idea of this thing that I have a [TS]

  million of now is the same as when I had [TS]

  200,000 of it just x 5 yeah like I don't [TS]

  know how much you can explain this but [TS]

  the longer that mean you've been working [TS]

  together the more attention i paid to [TS]

  youtube I watch my youtube videos and I [TS]

  just pay more attention to what kind of [TS]

  going on there who and I look at [TS]

  people's numbers more and your numbers [TS]

  seem very atypical to what I see with [TS]

  other people you know I don't watch very [TS]

  much youtube so you need to explain to [TS]

  hear what you mean by that [TS]

  so like you have two million YouTube [TS]

  subscribers em and your videos very [TS]

  frequently top 1 million and more you [TS]

  put out a video and it's like a million [TS]

  or two million views [TS]

  you know depending on how popular the [TS]

  video gets you have something up way [TS]

  more than that but on average it seems [TS]

  like it you get at least fifty percent [TS]

  that number [TS]

  yeah i'd say like a million feels like [TS]

  an average video [TS]

  yeah if I got if I got lower than [TS]

  800,000 I'd be sad if i get more than [TS]

  one [TS]

  half million I'd be I'd be pleasantly [TS]

  surprised so like a million is like your [TS]

  average right looking at that but I look [TS]

  at people now and I see like two million [TS]

  subscribers hundred thousand views like [TS]

  200,000 views are half a million who or [TS]

  icy like someone was 16 million [TS]

  subscribers and the videos get three [TS]

  million views or people that have the [TS]

  same subscribers you and their videos [TS]

  are like in the tens of thousands and I [TS]

  don't feel like I fully understand how [TS]

  shoot works [TS]

  yeah because I know as a person coming [TS]

  to youtube if i click that subscribe [TS]

  button [TS]

  I want to watch the majority of videos [TS]

  that are going to come in like I don't [TS]

  subscribe to a lot of channels there [TS]

  somewhere i subscribe to them and I pick [TS]

  and choose but it just seems that there [TS]

  is a real kind of disparity amongst the [TS]

  accounts that i look at between what [TS]

  those two numbers mean in a way that [TS]

  doesn't really seem to make sense in my [TS]

  brain like because I'm coming at it from [TS]

  podcast it's and it's even harder to [TS]

  tell subscribes and downloads and [TS]

  podcasting but our numbers stay pretty [TS]

  stable and that really doesn't seem to [TS]

  be the way that YouTube works at all [TS]

  when i started with YouTube it was very [TS]

  clear with a subscriber meant it meant [TS]

  someone had pressed that button and the [TS]

  way youtube was set up when that person [TS]

  went back to YouTube they would see a [TS]

  list of all of the channels that they [TS]

  had subscribed to and the newest video [TS]

  from those channels so it's very very [TS]

  obvious and very easy to see new stuff [TS]

  as it was coming in but over time into [TS]

  the annoyance of the great many people [TS]

  youtube like every other company that [TS]

  does this kind of thing has facebook [TS]

  eyes the experience meaning that you [TS]

  might like on facebook you might follow [TS]

  people but Facebook is in the business [TS]

  of deciding for you what you want to see [TS]

  and so they use algorithms to determine [TS]

  oh you seem to interact with this person [TS]

  a lot so we're going to show you more of [TS]

  their stuff and you and you don't see [TS]

  you don't interact with this person as [TS]

  much so we're going to show [TS]

  you less like Facebook does that YouTube [TS]

  does that I'm getting the impression [TS]

  from some angry people on Twitter that [TS]

  twitter has made some motions in the [TS]

  past few days towards this this is like [TS]

  an inevitable law of large media [TS]

  companies that they they want to switch [TS]

  from systems where you are telling them [TS]

  how you want to see things two systems [TS]

  where they are algorithmically [TS]

  determining for you [TS]

  what you're going to see and so now when [TS]

  people log onto youtube there's the they [TS]

  have a things collect what to watch and [TS]

  that is YouTube's suggestions about what [TS]

  you want to see i'm going to say that [TS]

  that what to watch [TS]

  I do watch a lot of videos that come [TS]

  from that the algorithm does work like I [TS]

  find lots of videos that i want to see [TS]

  from that suggestion [TS]

  oh yeah don't get me wrong youtube has [TS]

  some incredibly smart people working on [TS]

  that algorithm [TS]

  have you heard of google yeah it's like [TS]

  I'm not saying that it's bad and what it [TS]

  does [TS]

  I'm just saying it's a different system [TS]

  and i genuinely think that for something [TS]

  like YouTube you can argue that it's a [TS]

  better system do I like it better as a [TS]

  creator [TS]

  no but does your average viewer probably [TS]

  watch more YouTube because of their [TS]

  algorithmic system they have to I'd be [TS]

  shocked if if they don't [TS]

  youtube is obsessed with this notion of [TS]

  watch time like how much time do people [TS]

  spend on the site and he dedicate [TS]

  enormous computing resources and a/b [TS]

  testing and all kinds of stuff to figure [TS]

  out like what videos keep people on the [TS]

  site longer so I do not doubt in the [TS]

  slightest that it is effective but [TS]

  because of that the way I view the [TS]

  subscriber button now is not go this [TS]

  person has subscribed to my channel and [TS]

  they will see every one of my videos [TS]

  the subscriber button now is you sending [TS]

  a signal to the algorithm and the [TS]

  algorithm is going to decide how [TS]

  important it considers that signal to be [TS]

  and so I mean my guess is that when you [TS]

  see [TS]

  some really weird subscriber numbers [TS]

  like you do sometimes come across people [TS]

  who seem to have subscribers in the [TS]

  millions and view counts in like the [TS]

  tens or twenties thousands and it's like [TS]

  what is that like what's going on there [TS]

  and I think that's a case of the [TS]

  algorithm has decided that the people [TS]

  who have subscribed to this channel are [TS]

  not actually interested in seeing this [TS]

  channels videos that's what's happening [TS]

  there [TS]

  that's why i put just very little mental [TS]

  emphasis now on those subscriber numbers [TS]

  like it's interesting i'm glad when it [TS]

  goes up [TS]

  it's notable when I cross a big barrier [TS]

  but I used to be super obsessed with the [TS]

  subscriber numbers because it used to [TS]

  mean like when i press that publish [TS]

  button X number of people are going to [TS]

  see this as a new thing and now i know [TS]

  that when i press that button [TS]

  what really happens is almost certainly [TS]

  youtube just like Facebook does is like [TS]

  testing with a random subsection of the [TS]

  number of people who subscribe to me to [TS]

  see how many people click on it and then [TS]

  based on that it might recommend the [TS]

  video to a larger subsection of the [TS]

  number of people who subscribe to me [TS]

  like that's kind of what I presume is [TS]

  going on behind you know background and [TS]

  that's just a totally different feeling [TS]

  that like man when i press this button 2 [TS]

  million people are going to see a thing [TS]

  that's not what happens and so it makes [TS]

  that two million number feel very [TS]

  different now it's almost like that [TS]

  number is and a theoretical upper [TS]

  threshold of market exposure i think [TS]

  that's that's where the subscriber [TS]

  number is in some ways so if the numbers [TS]

  going up it's an indication to you there [TS]

  are more people to see it potentially to [TS]

  see it yeah but its day these things do [TS]

  not move in correlation to each other [TS]

  they don't necessarily move a [TS]

  correlation to each other now yeah I i [TS]

  can very easily imagine that the that [TS]

  some channels would have a situation [TS]

  where people love to subscribe to that [TS]

  channel but the algorithm consistently [TS]

  learned like okay but they don't [TS]

  actually interact with the videos in the [TS]

  way that I expect and so I just want [TS]

  every show them very many videos from [TS]

  this channel like other stuff will [TS]

  always take over because what it seemed [TS]

  seeming to be coming clear to me that [TS]

  doesn't really seem to be like a [TS]

  plentiful threshold [TS]

  that you have to hit two hit a certain [TS]

  level like if you cross a million then [TS]

  your views one will always be X could do [TS]

  it doesn't feel like that makes any [TS]

  sense it's just so confusing to me [TS]

  because it must mean is it was you do [TS]

  you know where the people are coming [TS]

  from like I don't know what YouTube [TS]

  statistics are like I do you know that [TS]

  like a lot of these people aren't [TS]

  subscribers and you're actually getting [TS]

  a lot of like in bed watches from [TS]

  whatever Daily Mail website or something [TS]

  the YouTube analytics are pretty good [TS]

  that they give you some sense of if [TS]

  people are coming from external sites [TS]

  there's always the issue of anyone who [TS]

  runs analytics programs knows that you [TS]

  have this is big catch-all category like [TS]

  direct referrals where you have no idea [TS]

  like really where the person came from [TS]

  you just know that they hit a URL that [TS]

  that sent them there YouTube does the [TS]

  best that it can but I always whenever I [TS]

  have a chance to talk to anybody who [TS]

  works at youtube I would I want to know [TS]

  is how many of my subscribers saw this [TS]

  on their screen when they went to the [TS]

  what to watch section on YouTube are [TS]

  like I want to know what percent of [TS]

  people were even exposed to this or what [TS]

  percent of my subscribers have asked for [TS]

  email alerts that's the one number they [TS]

  don't want to give you and I can totally [TS]

  understand from YouTube's perspective [TS]

  why they don't want to do that they [TS]

  don't want channels i imagine being [TS]

  quite irritated to know like what do you [TS]

  mean you only tested this with one [TS]

  percent of my audience and then sent it [TS]

  out to five percent of my audience [TS]

  because it didn't do very well like I [TS]

  think people would get quite angry about [TS]

  that if you know if that's what's going [TS]

  on here that stuff and it's like it [TS]

  makes me it makes my skin crawl [TS]

  well it makes your skin crawl because [TS]

  Facebook's whole business model is [TS]

  putting those numbers right in your face [TS]

  like with when i upload something on the [TS]

  cgpgrey facebook page Facebook is always [TS]

  like really happy to let you know like [TS]

  oh you have 20,000 fans on facebook we [TS]

  sent this to a hundred of them would you [TS]

  like to pay as more money to send it to [TS]

  more of the people who are fans of your [TS]

  page just because like I don't work in [TS]

  that world because i assume that [TS]

  maybe youtube is doing something like [TS]

  that as well right which is maybe right [TS]

  which is why you don't get all of the [TS]

  two million every time right yeah and [TS]

  and it's just the difference for me and [TS]

  you know with you wish the podcast as [TS]

  well is that people that click the [TS]

  button to subscribe to our shows they [TS]

  get every episode great choose what i [TS]

  listen to it like it comes to them who [TS]

  and the but then that's like the crazy [TS]

  things like of course it does [TS]

  you've you've shown the intention you [TS]

  you press the button and then it comes [TS]

  to you like they're just all these weird [TS]

  things that YouTube seem to do like [TS]

  sometimes I get push notifications for [TS]

  people like like I have a couple of [TS]

  channels that I like to get notified [TS]

  about when a new video posts [TS]

  sometimes I don't get those [TS]

  notifications right sex and that was [TS]

  like what are you doing like I've got an [TS]

  extra step now in trying to ensure that [TS]

  i see these videos but you're still not [TS]

  telling me about them that that one like [TS]

  I can't wrap my head around there was [TS]

  this one time i think i was looking for [TS]

  some pictures the other day and came [TS]

  across the other day i got this weird [TS]

  you ever this I got this like really [TS]

  weird push notification was like see [TS]

  latest from cgpgrey and you haven't [TS]

  uploaded in flex six weeks [TS]

  do you remember that oh yeah that's [TS]

  right that's right you just add the blue [TS]

  go gotta push notification about [TS]

  checkout see to creatively this video [TS]

  you know because they're doing some kind [TS]

  of tests right yeah that's my assumption [TS]

  here right like you you have just fallen [TS]

  into the random five percent that [TS]

  they're doing a test on and that's why [TS]

  you gotta push notification that is like [TS]

  just the the ongoing like weirdness of [TS]

  living inside of somebody else's system [TS]

  yeah all of this is and and this is part [TS]

  of like a broader statistics see kind of [TS]

  discussion on to talk to you about [TS]

  because there are some significant [TS]

  differences in the way that analytics [TS]

  and statistics work between the two [TS]

  businesses that you operate in right [TS]

  youtube and podcasting and one of the [TS]

  biggest ones is like the how public and [TS]

  private numbers are who's like with [TS]

  YouTube you can't hide them like they [TS]

  are there there on the page there under [TS]

  the video [TS]

  but in the podcasting world than not and [TS]

  by and large podcasters tend to keep [TS]

  their numbers private they just don't [TS]

  talk about them who we don't share them [TS]

  and I don't really know why that is but [TS]

  because people tend not to [TS]

  nobody does yeah it's it's weird it's [TS]

  like every podcast feels like it's in [TS]

  some kind of poker game with other [TS]

  podcast like to set your numbers on [TS]

  hello internet before and I nearly spent [TS]

  mighty out was because not only they are [TS]

  massive but also it was the fact that [TS]

  you set them on the show so well great [TS]

  you've broken the secret code that [TS]

  people don't like to talk about numbers [TS]

  in the podcast world in a way that I [TS]

  find strange because yes my I feel like [TS]

  I'm coming from this YouTube world and [TS]

  you actually have to double-check i'm [TS]

  pretty sure that in the option somewhere [TS]

  you can turn off the view numbers if you [TS]

  want to [TS]

  oh but nobody does yes it's the opposite [TS]

  of the private agreement [TS]

  everybody liked it is just agrees that [TS]

  they'll just show the numbers to [TS]

  everybody even more so it's a bit like [TS]

  when a bit like when people turn off [TS]

  comments on their videos it the the [TS]

  problems like oh you're one of those [TS]

  right like it's just you think you're [TS]

  better than us huh [TS]

  oh you're such a delicate little flower [TS]

  like nobody else's thoughts can if you [TS]

  can approach you like you're just to use [TS]

  separate from the rest of us taking away [TS]

  comments on youtube I almost always [TS]

  think it's like a worse thing to do then [TS]

  just leave it open right just leave it [TS]

  open because people hate it when you [TS]

  close the comments [TS]

  yeah just stuff I hate it yeah they're [TS]

  gonna find you and because you closed [TS]

  those comments like they're going to [TS]

  spend way more energy and trying to find [TS]

  you so just leave it open you know it's [TS]

  it's just a funny cultural thing i have [TS]

  only once seen someone do the no [TS]

  comments thing well which was this [TS]

  YouTube horror series called Marble [TS]

  Hornets which is a slender man like fan [TS]

  fiction horror series think this is [TS]

  really like obscure corner of the [TS]

  internet here Ivan I don't understand [TS]

  any of the woods [TS]

  but carry on i'm gonna i'm gonna carry [TS]

  on carry Thunderman is like this [TS]

  internet monster and his bunch of guys [TS]

  were making like a little video that had [TS]

  Slenderman like hunting them down in [TS]

  every video basically and they were [TS]

  uploading them to youtube and they [TS]

  disabled comments for sure and I think [TS]

  they disabled the ratings and it was one [TS]

  of those things where it's like okay you [TS]

  have made this experience feel different [TS]

  because I can't leave any feedback on [TS]

  this video this video is just like this [TS]

  thing that exists here and so then if I [TS]

  want to discuss this i have to go [TS]

  somewhere else and then it kind of [TS]

  foster like all of these communities [TS]

  around those videos discussing what's [TS]

  going on [TS]

  just google image search Slenderman [TS]

  letter for her comfortable anymore [TS]

  yeah it's super creepy like drinking [TS]

  from it's one of those things where it's [TS]

  like it's just all the wrong proportions [TS]

  to make you feel like oh god get this [TS]

  thing away from you I don't know about [TS]

  it and that that i will list [TS]

  MarbleHornets as the only effective use [TS]

  i have ever seen if someone turning off [TS]

  the comments and it was for a particular [TS]

  effect but if i ever saw someone who [TS]

  would like hidden the their view stats [TS]

  on youtube I feel like I've never stop [TS]

  laughing at them [TS]

  it was like oh ok that's the way you're [TS]

  going to do this all right i don't [TS]

  really know why it started like in the [TS]

  podcasting well and I think because it [TS]

  wasn't public people who didn't eat why [TS]

  would you talk about it [TS]

  yeah so everybody now just doesn't talk [TS]

  about it but you don't obviously you [TS]

  don't care to share right yeah I don't [TS]

  really care it's not especially you and [TS]

  Brady because you're both in the world [TS]

  of YouTube it seems very natural to talk [TS]

  about the numbers although again from my [TS]

  perspective I feel like the YouTube [TS]

  analytics are crystal clear there's that [TS]

  it's it's very obvious exactly how many [TS]

  people have watched your videos and [TS]

  precisely when they have stopped [TS]

  watching and all kinds of crazy [TS]

  informant for information like there's [TS]

  plenty of stuff to complain about you [TS]

  two but they their analytics are beat by [TS]

  no one [TS]

  yeah whereas from my perspective the [TS]

  podcast analytics opening seem like oh [TS]

  come on like these crazy numbers that [TS]

  are hard to interpret it feels like [TS]

  there's much more guesswork in the [TS]

  podcast world about how [TS]

  many people even listen because it's [TS]

  it's a bit of the reverse problem we're [TS]

  like sometimes someone subscribes to [TS]

  your podcast there can be a podcast [TS]

  player on their iphone which is [TS]

  downloading the episode diligently every [TS]

  week but the person never listens could [TS]

  be dead but they couldn't be dead with [TS]

  the iphone is still downloading shows [TS]

  and then there's also just some weird [TS]

  stuff where I like i am convinced that [TS]

  podcast analytics don't capture people [TS]

  listening from the web in an accurate [TS]

  fashion so I always feel like the [TS]

  podcast stuff is just it's just crazy [TS]

  it's just all over the place when people [TS]

  ask me about hello internet now I know I [TS]

  say it's like okay my 99 percent [TS]

  confidence interval is like okay we have [TS]

  two hundred thousand listeners plus or [TS]

  minus fifty thousand listeners that that [TS]

  plus or minus number makes me shudder [TS]

  I can't imagine that margin of era [TS]

  I don't understand what is the way it is [TS]

  i think it's partly because we seem to [TS]

  have a huge number of people who listen [TS]

  on the web as best analytics can tell [TS]

  like our show [TS]

  it's not as big as hello internet it's [TS]

  sizable I'm not going to tell you what [TS]

  the numbers are just so you're not going [TS]

  to discuss the numbers no i'm not going [TS]

  to talk about them [TS]

  why can't get to it why I just can't do [TS]

  it [TS]

  do I you want you know you can't do it [TS]

  because you are from the podcast world [TS]

  yeah exactly as I can't I can't talk [TS]

  about it i'll be breaking the secret [TS]

  code but our numbers are sizable that [TS]

  they were very large and we are [TS]

  relatively stable like that they're [TS]

  going up which is great so thank you [TS]

  everybody but that they don't differ by [TS]

  like twenty or thirty thousand a week [TS]

  like that doesn't happen mean there have [TS]

  been times that that happened and I've [TS]

  continuing to try and build my case for [TS]

  the shelling as the reason for this one [TS]

  day I really hope that you just test [TS]

  hello internet on a schedule and then [TS]

  the various stops and then [TS]

  and then i win nah but until that day [TS]

  i'm going to carry on fighting the good [TS]

  fight but yeah that that that 50,000 [TS]

  swingman and freaks me out [TS]

  now we have me up at night well lucky [TS]

  you do youtube videos [TS]

  yeah but you see that the reason why I [TS]

  think I'm also very happy talking about [TS]

  these numbers is because a plus or minus [TS]

  fifty thousand so a spread of a hundred [TS]

  thousand to me a spread of a hundred [TS]

  thousand doesn't even register on [TS]

  youtube scale excellent i think it's [TS]

  like you know YouTube scales is spreads [TS]

  of plus or minus five million yeah if I [TS]

  if I had a comparative spread on a show [TS]

  I wouldn't honestly lose sleep at night [TS]

  about I talk about these numbers we talk [TS]

  about the subscribers on youtube because [TS]

  this is one of those cases where I think [TS]

  you need to figure out what statistics [TS]

  really matter and what statistics don't [TS]

  and I used to place a huge amount of [TS]

  importance on youtube subscribers as a [TS]

  statistic that I followed and now I [TS]

  don't I I hardly think about it and [TS]

  quite frankly the two million thing [TS]

  really snuck up on me happy that video [TS]

  soliciting for questions entirely [TS]

  because like oh crap if I don't do this [TS]

  right now I'm going to miss the mark and [TS]

  I'm gonna look like an idiot asking for [TS]

  questions after yeah it was just it just [TS]

  snuck up on me too fast and then i have [TS]

  the same thing with the podcast which is [TS]

  like there as well [TS]

  listens feels like a number that i [TS]

  should be obsessed with but I just [TS]

  really don't think about it very much [TS]

  like I don't think those are necessarily [TS]

  I don't care to follow it on like a [TS]

  week-to-week basis it's not something [TS]

  that I focus on and I think it's very [TS]

  easy to get lost with following metrics [TS]

  that don't really directly impact [TS]

  anything like it's very easy for us and [TS]

  I see people do this sometimes where [TS]

  that people are super obsessed with how [TS]

  many followers they have on Instagram or [TS]

  snapchat or like whatever the newest [TS]

  social media thing is [TS]

  don't feel like okay okay but does that [TS]

  number [TS]

  translate to anything with your business [TS]

  like I can't imagine that it does and i [TS]

  even have data to back this up like I'm [TS]

  i'm approaching a hundred thousand [TS]

  followers on twitter and like 93 [TS]

  something now I think you know what i [TS]

  just did what this this shows you that [TS]

  I'm not really in the the right mental [TS]

  state [TS]

  i just opened tweet but to to search for [TS]

  you look at that and in the search field [TS]

  type the word Twitter so i'm looking for [TS]

  a Twitter to see how many followers they [TS]

  have it set of cgpgrey we going to get [TS]

  back to full health [TS]

  mykes mykes not fully back yet fifty [TS]

  percent of the way here [TS]

  sweet and gentle today yeah I'm here so [TS]

  i mention this is it as a thing which is [TS]

  like people talk about oh it's really [TS]

  important to promote your business on [TS]

  social media and I now find myself in [TS]

  the position that i have more followers [TS]

  on Twitter than most people who are [TS]

  trying to promote a business are going [TS]

  to have but i like to do tests on [TS]

  twitter with sometimes like track [TS]

  through urls to see how many people [TS]

  click on a thing how many people like [TS]

  retweet this or whatever like i can tell [TS]

  you even with a huge amount of followers [TS]

  like the number of people who click on [TS]

  URL is very small [TS]

  I think people end up thinking a lot [TS]

  about visible statistics because they're [TS]

  visible and they're easy to track i see [TS]

  people think how can i increase the [TS]

  number of people who follow me on [TS]

  Twitter or whatever and like okay it's [TS]

  an easy thing to conceptualize but I [TS]

  don't think it really matters in terms [TS]

  of promotion as much as you think it [TS]

  does with something like social media [TS]

  the relevant question is do you enjoy [TS]

  this [TS]

  are you having fun doing this and if the [TS]

  answer is no like well then this is not [TS]

  a super effective tool and with a [TS]

  minimum amount of tracking you can see [TS]

  very fast that that obsessing over these [TS]

  statistics is not going to help you at [TS]

  call it just doesn't matter because [TS]

  trust me a dude with ten times as many [TS]

  followers on twitter if he tweets out [TS]

  your link it's not actually that big of [TS]

  a deal [TS]

  almost all the time like it just doesn't [TS]

  matter I've definitely learned over time [TS]

  like if we have something like if we're [TS]

  selling a t-shirt or whatever you to [TS]

  worry about it you'll get some people [TS]

  but you got to put talked about on the [TS]

  show [TS]

  like that's how people find out about it [TS]

  that's not going to get is when they [TS]

  find out about it from the show that's [TS]

  where the actual audience is and it's [TS]

  like you know comparing the amount of [TS]

  Twitter followers I have to listeners [TS]

  that we have liked it very rarely even [TS]

  nearly matches up in air eat either up [TS]

  or down like it just doesn't make any [TS]

  sense a lot of this stuff it's like [TS]

  they're just a bunch of different [TS]

  numbers and I look at a lot of different [TS]

  numbers and just see how the move [TS]

  who what there's no way to it took to [TS]

  correlate a lot of these things together [TS]

  and I think that's the one of the key [TS]

  things that you learn after doing [TS]

  something like this for a while is that [TS]

  you just want to see the numbers moving [TS]

  in right one direction and that will [TS]

  help you know something but yeah there's [TS]

  no way that you can say and it goes all [TS]

  the way back to talk about right the [TS]

  stars conversation that those described [TS]

  numbers mean you're going to get that [TS]

  amount of video views because it just [TS]

  doesn't mean that i am a firm firm [TS]

  believer in trends over absolute value [TS]

  yes that when you when you realize that [TS]

  and you have to kind of go through a [TS]

  period of time obsessing about [TS]

  statistics before you realized the value [TS]

  is in trends Luke I used to put a lot [TS]

  more emotion i think into statistics [TS]

  then I do now if you have a really felt [TS]

  that way like if you ever looked at the [TS]

  numbers and and like really obsessed [TS]

  about them and thought like this means [TS]

  it's good this means it's bad [TS]

  no not in terms of video views or [TS]

  anything like that because [TS]

  feel like I have grown up so student [TS]

  internet culture that I am very aware [TS]

  that effort and quality are not [TS]

  necessarily related in terms of success [TS]

  in the way that people might want them [TS]

  to be nice so nicely put i have never [TS]

  had that feeling that I've been a few [TS]

  situations where i feel like i'm talking [TS]

  someone down from a cliff when they have [TS]

  a thing that is very high quality but [TS]

  just isn't catching on [TS]

  for some reason yeah something like but [TS]

  that's not how this works is I guess you [TS]

  might have put a hundred hours into this [TS]

  thing but that doesn't mean that it's [TS]

  going to be super viral on the internet [TS]

  like it is that just not how it works [TS]

  it's never worked like that it will [TS]

  never work like that but people want it [TS]

  to as soon as they get into the game of [TS]

  of making stuff [TS]

  however the only time i was super [TS]

  obsessed with statistics as i mentioned [TS]

  before is when I was trying to switch to [TS]

  youtube full-time and then I had a [TS]

  spreadsheet that was tracking progress [TS]

  to 200,000 subscribers that I filled out [TS]

  and looked at every day and was looking [TS]

  at the numbers and the projections for [TS]

  how long is it going to take to hit this [TS]

  number like then I was super obsessed [TS]

  but it's because i had a goal and I had [TS]

  a day by which i had to hit that goal [TS]

  otherwise i was going to be teaching for [TS]

  another year so then I was super [TS]

  obsessed but after that like I have a [TS]

  whole lot of spreadsheets attract a [TS]

  whole lot of things really [TS]

  which might be a surprise to some [TS]

  listeners would never guessed and I do [TS]

  track things but now it's almost [TS]

  entirely on a monthly basis that when a [TS]

  new month rolls around there's a bunch [TS]

  of things that i do and one of those [TS]

  things i update some of the spreadsheets [TS]

  and I like to look at a lot of the stuff [TS]

  in my business on a 12 or 24 months [TS]

  average rolling timeframe is a big time [TS]

  frame it's a big time frame but it's the [TS]

  only way to smooth out something as a [TS]

  regular as the youtube channel [TS]

  yeah right because since some months i [TS]

  upload other months I don't upload [TS]

  sometimes the summer goes by and there's [TS]

  nothing like this [TS]

  I have to average out something like the [TS]

  revenue on that business over a 24 month [TS]

  time frame because otherwise the the [TS]

  numbers are just crazy [TS]

  it's just good that the differences [TS]

  between a month where I do something in [TS]

  them and a month where I don't are [TS]

  enormous [TS]

  I feel like I check our statistics on a [TS]

  on a kind of a less regimented basis so [TS]

  I check every show once a month to just [TS]

  plug them into a spreadsheet and there [TS]

  are some shows where I check them more [TS]

  frequently who and and it's not i don't [TS]

  feel like i obsess on them [TS]

  I just look at them and go okay like [TS]

  with we're tracking yeah but I used to [TS]

  like really Frank over them [TS]

  why did you fret this is that this was a [TS]

  lot earlier and me doing this this is [TS]

  before relay em I i used to check the [TS]

  numbers like multiple times a day of my [TS]

  shows see that here that is Freddie and [TS]

  his demo and it was really because I [TS]

  used to kind of a quite a lot more to [TS]

  like this isn't the desperation face for [TS]

  me write the same as how you were in [TS]

  that phase leading up to the leaving [TS]

  teaching who I really equated like when [TS]

  the numbers hit X i will be able to [TS]

  finally leave my job although for me I [TS]

  had no way of controlling it [TS]

  it was like a purely mental thing I I [TS]

  hadn't done the work to actually know [TS]

  what number does it need it and it [TS]

  really wasn't until I could have my own [TS]

  business before it could ever do it [TS]

  anyway like the numbers were never gonna [TS]

  make sense because I could never control [TS]

  it right whoohoo [TS]

  but yeah i used to check it a lot more [TS]

  obsessively and and i was able to get [TS]

  myself out of it by thinking about it [TS]

  slightly differently and there's this [TS]

  this is talk that that I listen to maybe [TS]

  once every year or two and it's by my [TS]

  manager grupa and that they gave this [TS]

  talk yourself myself Western like 2004 [TS]

  and they talked a lot about this type of [TS]

  stuff like who are you making for and [TS]

  what I eventually was able to transition [TS]

  myself into is when I make these things [TS]

  and creating things I try to make them [TS]

  good for people that I imagined in my [TS]

  mind like specific people like is this [TS]

  person gonna like this [TS]

  and when i was able to kind of work to [TS]

  that it helped me stop thinking about [TS]

  the number so much I wasn't thinking [TS]

  about the masses of people I was trying [TS]

  to think of specific people that might [TS]

  enjoy it my probably top favorite [TS]

  writing book is on writing by stephen [TS]

  king which little bit difficult to [TS]

  recommend because you need to have [TS]

  already read a lot of stephen king books [TS]

  to get the most out of that they talked [TS]

  a lot about that book in that talk okay [TS]

  because that matches up with his notion [TS]

  of the ideal reader he talks about in [TS]

  that writing books for his wife as [TS]

  opposed to writing books for millions of [TS]

  readers that that's a much easier thing [TS]

  to think about and also changes the way [TS]

  that that you create things I think [TS]

  there's definitely value in that notion [TS]

  because you know if you're trying to [TS]

  think about the audience as a whole was [TS]

  like okay well guess what the audience [TS]

  as a whole has no personality and the [TS]

  audience as a whole some people are [TS]

  always going to love the thing that you [TS]

  just made and some people are always [TS]

  going to hate it like there's no there's [TS]

  no direction to be derived from this [TS]

  many people are always going to sit the [TS]

  polar ends right well least the ones you [TS]

  can hear from all of this comes down to [TS]

  I think trying to figure out like what [TS]

  is it that actually matters for tracking [TS]

  in your business and the lessons here [TS]

  are there's tons of stuff that's easy to [TS]

  track that is totally pointless and [TS]

  tracking like yeah so all the stuff is [TS]

  really easy to get numbers alone so [TS]

  maybe the stuff you don't need but yeah [TS]

  I think there actually might be a direct [TS]

  relationship with that right like that [TS]

  the easier it is to track [TS]

  yeah the less useful it is if you run a [TS]

  business almost certainly one of the [TS]

  most important things to track is [TS]

  revenue and so lots of my spreadsheets [TS]

  are various things related to income and [TS]

  money flow and income diversity which is [TS]

  the thing we should talk about that [TS]

  another time [TS]

  not now [TS]

  but like so like that's what I track and [TS]

  that's I tracked over a long time and I [TS]

  want to see the trends like I don't [TS]

  really care about the absolute value but [TS]

  i just want to like these numbers going [TS]

  up [TS]

  okay that's great things are fine if the [TS]

  numbers start going down then I need to [TS]

  start thinking about changing stuff [TS]

  around but going to this notion of [TS]

  sometimes the most important things are [TS]

  the hardest things to track is I'm [TS]

  really aware like with hello internet [TS]

  that we have a big audience but there's [TS]

  also some kind of crazy variance in the [TS]

  individual shows that I i just cannot [TS]

  figure out with hello internet i think [TS]

  one of the most important things to me [TS]

  to be aware of is impossible to track [TS]

  directly and it's how interested are the [TS]

  advertisers in buying more spots that's [TS]

  not a number that i can put on a [TS]

  spreadsheet but it's a thing that i am [TS]

  aware which is like okay we have this [TS]

  audience it's wildly variant but I know [TS]

  that advertisers once to buy more ads [TS]

  then we want to sell them right away [TS]

  because there's a funny thing in that [TS]

  the numbers done actually dictate that I [TS]

  have some particular theories about like [TS]

  why I think it seems like advertiser's [TS]

  get a good response from that show [TS]

  yeah I i feel like i know it but we'll [TS]

  save that for another time we'll save [TS]

  that for another time I i have my own [TS]

  theories but that but that is a perfect [TS]

  example like there's nothing I can put [TS]

  on a spreadsheet to directly track like [TS]

  this advertiser response but I just know [TS]

  that when advertisers go on that show [TS]

  they are very happy and then advertisers [TS]

  want to block out a whole year and we [TS]

  find ourselves in these conversations [TS]

  like no we will not sell you a whole [TS]

  years worth of advertising in advance [TS]

  like that's a great thing that's super [TS]

  important but that is impossible to [TS]

  track in a in a statistically [TS]

  significant way but it is probably one [TS]

  of the most important things that I'm [TS]

  just aware of like this is a good thing [TS]

  one of the hardest things about tracking [TS]

  that as well as there are factors that [TS]

  have nothing to do with you that you [TS]

  don't know [TS]

  yeah yeah there's so much that's just [TS]

  out of your control like budgets yeah [TS]

  you have no idea what's happening in [TS]

  those companies budgets like you might [TS]

  have a company that has bought your show [TS]

  every episode 44 years then they stop [TS]

  you think it's you but they just went [TS]

  out of business [TS]

  nothing to do with you met this is [TS]

  something that as I have been more and [TS]

  more in the business of the podcasting [TS]

  world i have discovered the seasonality [TS]

  of corporate budgets and the importance [TS]

  of quarters in New York rolls around [TS]

  it's to me it's just like coming from [TS]

  the YouTube world where none of this [TS]

  stuff matters that like YouTube just [TS]

  handles all of it for you just so aware [TS]

  of of like the annual cycle and [TS]

  corporate budgets for advertising for [TS]

  yeah i got my head around cool is I'm [TS]

  getting now starting to understand you a [TS]

  little bit more as well but it's funny [TS]

  to find myself having conversations [TS]

  where I feel like the douchiest business [TS]

  person in the world around like yeah we [TS]

  can revisit that in q3 that such base in [TS]

  the next cool top great i cannot believe [TS]

  I'd say things like we can circle back [TS]

  and q4 what have I become today's [TS]

  episode of cortex is also brought to you [TS]

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  you go to a dealer they put the prices [TS]

  up of course right because you've got to [TS]

  have a middleman in the middle of it all [TS]

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  details thank you so much to cancel for [TS]

  their support of this show really a fan [TS]

  right so talking about millions of views [TS]

  there was this whole hob in the YouTube [TS]

  world which is so funny that I kind of [TS]

  set on the very sidelines now like a CD [TS]

  start these things that to pop into my [TS]

  life a little bit more youtube drama [TS]

  yeah and a lot of my friends found out [TS]

  about this because of you [TS]

  movement i don't think i would have [TS]

  found out about it if it wasn't for you [TS]

  and this whole thing about react videos [TS]

  and I don't want to get into the whole [TS]

  business of it i am assuming you and [TS]

  Brady will probably talk about some [TS]

  point maybe and I'll put some links in [TS]

  the show notes to people if they want to [TS]

  find out exactly what is going on or [TS]

  have gone on with this here's here's the [TS]

  thumbnail sketch for anyone who's just [TS]

  listening now there's no idea what Mike [TS]

  is talking about [TS]

  yeah basically two very popular [TS]

  youtubers put out two videos that were [TS]

  hilariously tone-deaf and super [TS]

  corporate and the YouTube world reacted [TS]

  very very poorly to these and lots of [TS]

  people were putting out videos [TS]

  complaining about what they had done or [TS]

  the way they had done it was kind of a [TS]

  big pile on and i came to this very late [TS]

  but as soon as I saw those two videos is [TS]

  like I cannot not make my own videos [TS]

  about this and so I did [TS]

  yes in anything that will go down in [TS]

  history [TS]

  I think cgpgrey it's one of the most [TS]

  like out-of-character days I've have [TS]

  seen from you always say this about [TS]

  things being out of character yes but [TS]

  they're in York if they're you there in [TS]

  your character has a get it but ok you [TS]

  adapt your character that day was just [TS]

  waiting to happen [TS]

  yes James yes only a matter of time the [TS]

  movie but the reason I went to bring [TS]

  this up is that how long did it take you [TS]

  to create these two videos [TS]

  ok so i went back and took a look at the [TS]

  files like when the file creation time [TS]

  happens i was curious to know myself and [TS]

  essentially these two videos together to [TS]

  make both of them took me less than 40 [TS]

  minutes to make from start to finish [TS]

  alright as we sit here today they're [TS]

  about [TS]

  about [TS]

  we called and have accumulated together [TS]

  close to two million views right making [TS]

  this the single-most profitable 40 [TS]

  minutes of your entire life right [TS]

  yeah yeah i think it is quite probable [TS]

  that that is the most money i will ever [TS]

  make per hour of anything that I've ever [TS]

  done now or in the future right [TS]

  it's just so little time as a man of [TS]

  tracking statistics a man of tracking [TS]

  all of this kind of stuff you've got to [TS]

  have some kind of opinion about this [TS]

  like what does this say that why what [TS]

  does this say to you [TS]

  well it's not always going to be things [TS]

  that you do this stuff with and it's [TS]

  kind of funny that you made some [TS]

  reaction videos and think we're gonna be [TS]

  popular [TS]

  who's quite ironic good the whole scheme [TS]

  of things [TS]

  yeah i think this is part of the [TS]

  statistics conversation because i think [TS]

  it's really important for people to be [TS]

  aware that statistics are just not [TS]

  everything and so if I if I was just an [TS]

  absolute cold-blooded businessman who [TS]

  only cared about the money [TS]

  obviously I should get into the snarky [TS]

  reaction video business [TS]

  yeah right and this is not an [TS]

  exaggeration i could probably 10 x [TS]

  revenue if i did so at least at least [TS]

  10x per hour [TS]

  huh you think because it's these pianos [TS]

  took no effort to do [TS]

  everybody loves a good bit of drama and [TS]

  a good bit of an internet fight like [TS]

  internet by everybody comes along right [TS]

  and they want to see what everybody has [TS]

  to say about what's going on like these [TS]

  are very popular things they're always [TS]

  enough internet flights to get involved [TS]

  in to sustain a business yet but I mean [TS]

  the thing is this whole bizarre funny [TS]

  subsection of YouTube that I mostly stay [TS]

  away from [TS]

  it is entirely devoted to youtube drama [TS]

  and then of course everybody knows like [TS]

  a pack of drama llamas like they just [TS]

  draw more drama llamas like it brings [TS]

  its own energy and audience and like [TS]

  these things feed on them so there is a [TS]

  whole economy built around this kind of [TS]

  stuff and it's hugely popular but it's [TS]

  just crazy and that's that's partly what [TS]

  these videos like stumbled upon a little [TS]

  bit like a guy always cgpgrey got in on [TS]

  the action too and everybody watches the [TS]

  video so yeah it's like from a business [TS]

  perspective it's like stupid not to make [TS]

  more of these but this is but this is [TS]

  where there was like I am trying to [TS]

  build a life that I want to live [TS]

  I'm not trying to make a company that [TS]

  maximizes revenue under all [TS]

  circumstances all the time [TS]

  yeah that's a really good way of putting [TS]

  it I don't want to make reaction videos [TS]

  all the time I don't want to follow [TS]

  youtube drama like I just don't care I [TS]

  don't care [TS]

  almost all of the time and yeah this [TS]

  stuff would be really easy to make [TS]

  yeah it would probably be pretty popular [TS]

  but it's it's not something that I want [TS]

  to do and this is this is again those [TS]

  moments where there's a kind of conflict [TS]

  between the CEO of grey incorporated and [TS]

  the employee of grey incorporated but [TS]

  since I'm the same person i can and do [TS]

  make decisions that aren't terrible [TS]

  business wise but that are great [TS]

  personal life wise and i think it's it's [TS]

  incredibly important to be conscious of [TS]

  that kind of thing I could be aware of [TS]

  don't think business decisions that you [TS]

  won't be happy with like I would just I [TS]

  would hate doing nothing but this now [TS]

  might I make one again in the future I [TS]

  don't know maybe if another perfect [TS]

  storm like this and it is just [TS]

  irresistible comes along but I'm not [TS]

  starting you know cgp reacts it's just [TS]

  not a thing that I'm going to do is not [TS]

  a thing that i have any interest in [TS]

  doing like I I like making the kinds of [TS]

  videos that i make i like making videos [TS]

  on topics that are of interest to me and [TS]

  I [TS]

  just such a lucky bastard that there is [TS]

  a large enough audience of people who [TS]

  are interested in the kinds of things [TS]

  that I make that I can do this for a [TS]

  living [TS]

  really it's there's no reason that [TS]

  should be but it happens to be and i am [TS]

  the lucky benefactor of that but you [TS]

  know you can [TS]

  and people do strategically go after big [TS]

  popular audiences of stuff [TS]

  well people have different goals like [TS]

  it's the same thing for me look there is [TS]

  a there is a style of podcasting that [TS]

  seems to be extremely popular which [TS]

  basically sounds like it's made by [TS]

  public radio all right yeah your podcast [TS]

  yeah and the giblet podcast which all [TS]

  sound the same [TS]

  yeah and I've dabbled in some stuff [TS]

  which is stylistically close to it [TS]

  little weak i could try and go further [TS]

  in that direction [TS]

  I could try more and more projects but [TS]

  it doesn't interest me as much as the [TS]

  stuff that I do the people talking think [TS]

  that's the stuff that I like it's stuff [TS]

  that we make it's stuff that we [TS]

  commissioned like this is my thing that [TS]

  I enjoy like this is what i like to do [TS]

  I'm again consider myself a very very [TS]

  lucky person i get to make what I like [TS]

  to make some people like to listen to [TS]

  their and I get paid to do it and that's [TS]

  also that's how I feel there are people [TS]

  that feel differently but they just [TS]

  motivated by different things right it's [TS]

  not wrong it's just motivated [TS]

  differently like me and you are [TS]

  motivated to do the type of thing that [TS]

  we like because it makes us happy but [TS]

  for some people they just want to make [TS]

  the most money they can make and what [TS]

  that means is creating videos talking [TS]

  about people fighting who [TS]

  but the thing is the reason they make [TS]

  money is to people like to in to watch [TS]

  those things they enjoy them [TS]

  oh yeah and internet fight done right is [TS]

  fine because the whole there's no way [TS]

  around it like it just it plugs into [TS]

  something that humans like I always want [TS]

  to be a clearly i'm never quite [TS]

  pooh-poohing people enjoying other [TS]

  kind of content because I think that's [TS]

  the kind of thing that you can't really [TS]

  control like it's just whether your [TS]

  brain reacts to it or it doesn't look [TS]

  like whatever I don't know I sometimes [TS]

  get into arguments with people when they [TS]

  say things like oh there's so much [TS]

  garbage on youtube was like what is it [TS]

  popular like then tons of people like it [TS]

  you know i like who and who are you to [TS]

  say like Oh everybody should be watching [TS]

  masterpiece theater right like well [TS]

  should they should they always like I [TS]

  don't watch masterpiece theater all day [TS]

  long I like gossip and flying as much as [TS]

  the next person [TS]

  yeah who doesn't and it's nice that [TS]

  there's a place for it [TS]

  I just don't feel like I need to be the [TS]

  person to make it another youtube [TS]

  version of this is from my perspective [TS]

  just low-effort list videos just like [TS]

  lists do really well on websites list he [TS]

  really well in video format and it's [TS]

  like it's not like I've never do a list [TS]

  it's not that I don't think it's can't [TS]

  be done well but i know i know that i [TS]

  almost certainly could have videos that [TS]

  were way more popular that are way [TS]

  easier to make if I just said after [TS]

  making lists i'm making lists from now [TS]

  on you go right [TS]

  10 amazing places you've never heard of [TS]

  seven things your body does you won't [TS]

  believe right it's like it stuffs really [TS]

  easy to do it's like it's it's not hard [TS]

  and the the siren song of it is it's not [TS]

  hard and it almost certainly would be [TS]

  very popular way more popular than what [TS]

  i'm doing now but i also know like I I [TS]

  just don't want to make those that [TS]

  that's not a thing that I want to do and [TS]

  yeah the business would love it but I [TS]

  would not i would not love that so you [TS]

  just have to be careful like I guess it [TS]

  before and I keep track of these these [TS]

  graphs like business revenue over time [TS]

  and like at some point these graphs are [TS]

  going to level off this is just like at [TS]

  some point [TS]

  youtube subscriber numbers will level [TS]

  off because there are only so many [TS]

  people in the world [TS]

  right like there's only so much value [TS]

  that I can create in a day in an hour [TS]

  but when I come to those points like I [TS]

  know and I'm very comfortable with the [TS]

  idea of like okay revenues leveled off [TS]

  viewers are left have leveled off I'm [TS]

  gonna be totally fine continuing to do [TS]

  what I do and I'm not going to feel like [TS]

  oh I need to start going after list [TS]

  videos and reaction videos and all this [TS]

  other stuff to keep this graph going up [TS]

  because this is the huge benefit of [TS]

  working for yourself i am not a public [TS]

  company i do not need to keep growing [TS]

  forever [TS]

  this is not one of my goals and it is [TS]

  very very important to keep that in [TS]

  front of mind like yes I have all of [TS]

  these spreadsheets but these [TS]

  spreadsheets are not the measure of [TS]

  success like I view the measure of [TS]

  success as having control over my life [TS]

  and being able to work on the things [TS]

  that interest me and I know for a fact [TS]

  that the opportunity cost of that [TS]

  decision is enormous [TS]

  like I can put i can put ballpark [TS]

  figures on just how enormous that [TS]

  opportunity cost is and it is [TS]

  breathtaking [TS]

  because i don't know it's just like I [TS]

  see these comments sometimes right we're [TS]

  like I have advertisements at the end of [TS]

  some of my youtube videos now like I've [TS]

  done audible azerbaijan Squarespace ads [TS]

  and maybe someday we can talk about why [TS]

  that's the case actually might be good [TS]

  for the diversity episode but sometimes [TS]

  I'll see comments from people who are [TS]

  like oh what a sellout like can't [TS]

  believe it look at that this guy put an [TS]

  audible ad for Guns Germs and Steel at [TS]

  the end of his America box video what a [TS]

  total sellout always kind of lavender [TS]

  because it's like dude when I sellout [TS]

  you will know its yeah like I don't [TS]

  think you have any idea the kind of [TS]

  offers that come across the table of [TS]

  someone who consistently gets millions [TS]

  of views on YouTube epic i say no to [TS]

  tons of things that would make me a lot [TS]

  of money for very little effort because [TS]

  i don't think that they're good [TS]

  decisions in the long term and because i [TS]

  think that they would make me unhappy [TS]

  e to do I've said no to a lot of stuff [TS]

  and it was a little bit harder in the [TS]

  beginning because you feel like my [TS]

  immediate trust me [TS]

  sometimes there are offers that come [TS]

  along with like highway gigantic car [TS]

  company we will pay you an enormous [TS]

  amount of money to make a video about [TS]

  our car and I was like oh god i'm going [TS]

  to say no to this like that is a huge [TS]

  check but i'm going to say no but I'm [TS]

  gonna wonder for a day or so like am I [TS]

  an idiot pocket just a moron [TS]

  I'm cgpgrey and i'm here to tell you [TS]

  about why this new floor car is amazing [TS]

  yeah i mean that's basically what you [TS]

  get pitch sometimes yeah i mean when [TS]

  people see that video that's well know [TS]

  that yeah yeah that's what it was like [TS]

  hold out like you know it's fine and you [TS]

  know everybody does have the price right [TS]

  but like my prices at this stage is like [TS]

  can you pay me enough so that I never [TS]

  have to work again and can live a life [TS]

  of luxury [TS]

  then I will do your car company [TS]

  commercial like that's fine now we can [TS]

  then we can have a discussion maybe but [TS]

  it's just it's so important especially [TS]

  if you are the only person in your [TS]

  business that you have to balance all [TS]

  that stuff of like not only what will [TS]

  make me money but like what will I also [TS]

  fee feel ok doing [TS]

  I don't think I've told this story [TS]

  before but the hardest decision like [TS]

  this that I ever had actually came [TS]

  literally the week after i had quit [TS]

  teaching so I was brand-new just on my [TS]

  own self employed for the first time and [TS]

  as you are in that situation terrified [TS]

  that you might have made the worst [TS]

  decision of your life a little desperate [TS]

  to right yeah you feel like you're [TS]

  really you're suddenly living on the [TS]

  edge [TS]

  yeah right you don't know where money's [TS]

  coming from and is this moment of like [TS]

  oh god my own life is in my own hands [TS]

  like I might have just totally mess this [TS]

  up [TS]

  yeah and in particular for reasons i've [TS]

  alluded to in the past like I also in [TS]

  the process of leaving teaching like [TS]

  might have totally screwed myself out of [TS]

  being able to get another teaching job [TS]

  but that's a [TS]

  on the side there but so the week after [TS]

  I quit my teaching job I had a phone [TS]

  call with someone from a large [TS]

  publishing company and they had this [TS]

  offer for me which basically went like [TS]

  this we will write you a check that is [TS]

  more money then you have made in the [TS]

  last four years right now if we can use [TS]

  your name on a book about fun history [TS]

  facts that you won't write but that we [TS]

  will sell and you just mention it on [TS]

  your YouTube channel that there's like [TS]

  cgp Gray's fun history facts book that [TS]

  this exists God feels like a golden [TS]

  goose right at that stage right where [TS]

  you are [TS]

  like that's your security for the next [TS]

  four years exactly what it was right [TS]

  it's like somewhat someone is going to [TS]

  hand you peace of mind just the biggest [TS]

  safety net for the next several years [TS]

  the only thing you have to do is sell [TS]

  your name and it was one of these things [TS]

  like man did I get in some arguments [TS]

  with some people about this because i [TS]

  didn't like that deal why I didn't like [TS]

  the deal because I didn't I thought man [TS]

  I don't want to have my name on some [TS]

  ghostwritten thing forever [TS]

  this is one of these things with with [TS]

  business like how much of an incentive [TS]

  do they have to make this amazing i [TS]

  imagine not a huge incentive because [TS]

  with their banking on you to go no say [TS]

  in the book at all [TS]

  yeah what they're banking on is like oh [TS]

  here is a guy who [TS]

  as a big audience of enthusiastic [TS]

  followers and we're going to make more [TS]

  money off of all of these people buying [TS]

  the first thing that he has made then [TS]

  the size of this check that we're going [TS]

  to write and we're just gonna hire some [TS]

  ghostwriters to just turn this thing out [TS]

  in a weekend i don't remember the [TS]

  details now but they had some [TS]

  hilariously fast time frame right which [TS]

  is just again indicates like okay well [TS]

  you're not gonna make a great book here [TS]

  it may have been written already [TS]

  yeah take they just needed to make a [TS]

  cover it very well may have been the [TS]

  case that this was something from some [TS]

  other aborted project that they were [TS]

  just trying to figure out it was written [TS]

  and they would just wait until some [TS]

  person said yeah exactly [TS]

  you may have been the third person right [TS]

  yeah yeah you never know you never know [TS]

  what this stuff that was the hardest [TS]

  business decision i think i have ever [TS]

  made because i was in the absolute worst [TS]

  negotiating position [TS]

  yep it was the thing that I needed most [TS]

  at that time a shocking amount of [TS]

  financial security but i did i did say [TS]

  no and and like I was saying like I got [TS]

  into arguments with people and free [TS]

  universal wall of consensus was you're a [TS]

  moron for not taking this think what it [TS]

  what are you what do you even debating [TS]

  but sitting here now I am so glad that I [TS]

  didn't do that that I don't have some [TS]

  kind of albatross around my neck [TS]

  you would never get over it like yeah [TS]

  but the way that I know you that would [TS]

  always bother you always and I feel that [TS]

  same way about some of the things that [TS]

  come to me as business deals for the [TS]

  YouTube channels like I don't want to [TS]

  make a video that somebody else is just [TS]

  paying me to make that I have no [TS]

  interest in because the check was really [TS]

  big again it's like sometimes you feel [TS]

  really dumb turning down these things [TS]

  but it doesn't it doesn't change the [TS]

  fact that like again as a one-person [TS]

  business like I have to live with the [TS]

  thing that I [TS]

  I am doing and if there's a really [TS]

  terrible book with my name on it [TS]

  I want to have written that terrible [TS]

  book right i want to be able to look at [TS]

  that and go wow that was my fault i did [TS]

  a terrible job on that at least I tried [TS]

  right but it was me doing it what I [TS]

  don't want is something where like I [TS]

  have sold my name to be used on a thing [TS]

  and it's terrible it's like oh ok that's [TS]

  awful [TS]

  that's absolutely awful now and then in [TS]

  addition the feeling of like kind of [TS]

  having tricked my audience into making a [TS]

  purchase that I had nothing to do with [TS]

  like men not none of this do i like i [TS]

  like none of it but that's why you know [TS]

  just like this these are surprisingly [TS]

  popular react because it's like you [TS]

  can't use just the metrics to make all [TS]

  of the decisions those reactors were fun [TS]

  to make [TS]

  maybe I'll do something like that again [TS]

  in the future but i'm not going to chase [TS]

  that career and yeah sometimes I get [TS]

  offers from companies that on a pure [TS]

  return-on-investment basis i like great [TS]

  deals but it's you can evaluate [TS]

  everything in that way even if that's [TS]

  what you're using to track some of the [TS]

  data in your life this episode of cortex [TS]

  is brought to you by a glue the internet [TS]

  you will actually like not the internet [TS]

  you already like the internet everybody [TS]

  like the internet but your intranet you [TS]

  probably hate it [TS]

  you want some company and the internal [TS]

  intranet is just a nightmare to work [TS]

  with [TS]

  I know all the intranets that I've ever [TS]

  had to work with they were horrible [TS]

  I hated them they were old they were [TS]

  clunky they were conflicts all the time [TS]

  it was just a big big problem but not [TS]

  with a glue glue allows you to make your [TS]

  internet feel like a place that you [TS]

  actually want to work it's surprisingly [TS]

  configurable and you can completely [TS]

  rebrand it to give it the look and feel [TS]

  of your team or company thanks to group [TS]

  spaces role-based access permissions and [TS]

  easy to drag-and-drop widget editors you [TS]

  can make the whole internet work exactly [TS]

  the way your team needs it to you can [TS]

  share files with your coworker [TS]

  is you can all collaborate on the same [TS]

  documents you can use read receipts to [TS]

  see who's seen what for tracking [TS]

  important information [TS]

  it's just way simpler and way more [TS]

  powerful than the internet at the [TS]

  company that you are probably using [TS]

  right now so it's time to break away [TS]

  from that internet you hate if you are [TS]

  the IT guy at your company who's in [TS]

  charge of setting up these internets [TS]

  check out a glue if you're an employee [TS]

  have a little chat with the IT guy tell [TS]

  them cortex sent you [TS]

  so go and sign up for a glue right now [TS]

  at a glue / cortex you can [TS]

  try it for free and for any team with up [TS]

  to 10 people you can use it for free as [TS]

  long as you want you really have nothing [TS]

  to lose [TS]

  once again that's igloo / [TS]

  cortex thank you so much to glue for [TS]

  supporting cortex and all of real afm [TS]

  alright Mike there's a thing I want to [TS]

  talk to you about em and is a thing that [TS]

  I wanted to talk to you about so much [TS]

  that contrary to my normal character i [TS]

  was trying to convince you a while back [TS]

  to record an emergency episode cortex [TS]

  that's how much I wanted to talk about [TS]

  that I have and I message from you which [TS]

  i think i feel like i need to frame and [TS]

  sent back to you huh where you work with [TS]

  you were basically asking me to do more [TS]

  work and I was telling you know this [TS]

  might be the only time in the history of [TS]

  our working collaboration together or [TS]

  ever in the future but yes I would like [TS]

  okay we need to record number to the [TS]

  episode because i feel incredibly [TS]

  strongly about a thing and I need to get [TS]

  this out there but obviously here we are [TS]

  now dear listener Mike wouldn't do an [TS]

  emergency cortex and so now this is in [TS]

  the regular show where do we begin this [TS]

  story of whoa Mike it has been well [TS]

  documented that myself and gray love our [TS]

  iPad pros [TS]

  yes it is further documented that we [TS]

  love to use our Apple pencils with them [TS]

  from drawing with them but also to use [TS]

  them like pen tablets to interact with [TS]

  them too [TS]

  attacked things to scroll things because [TS]

  it's nice it's already in your hand [TS]

  great you can just use it like a finger [TS]

  currently Apple have in both developer [TS]

  and public beta iOS 9.3 I'm getting too [TS]

  old to install betas can become an old [TS]

  man now i cant got time for this kind of [TS]

  young man's game installing betas on [TS]

  your main machines here however however [TS]

  the night shift feature in 9.3 was one [TS]

  of those things that I was intensely [TS]

  interested in I wanted to see how it [TS]

  worked [TS]

  no one else can show you screenshots or [TS]

  pictures you have to see it in person [TS]

  you know and so I thought okay let me [TS]

  come out of retirement right install the [TS]

  beta on my main machine and three-time I [TS]

  get out they pull me right back in [TS]

  exactly that it's always gonna be [TS]

  something like this but you know this [TS]

  time this time with this one and I [TS]

  really do mean that like my ipad pro is [TS]

  without doubt my main machine by Miles [TS]

  has got to be the thing that I am doing [TS]

  ninety percent of all of my computing on [TS]

  including my headphone sign so I know I [TS]

  installed as I got 1i chip this is great [TS]

  and i was using the the ipad to just [TS]

  read some stuff and I like what I really [TS]

  want to see is how this works with [TS]

  ibooks at night i open up I books and I [TS]

  have the pencil in my hand as i always [TS]

  do and I go to turn the page and I books [TS]

  like that's weird [TS]

  the pink page doesn't turn with the [TS]

  pencil anymore how as well of course [TS]

  this is why I like it's a beta it's a [TS]

  bug and I gave using the ipad and let [TS]

  them in safari like huh [TS]

  the the web page isn't scrolling when I [TS]

  go to use this pencil to scroll and [TS]

  safari like that's weird and then I open [TS]

  to share sheet in good notes which is my [TS]

  handwriting application of choice i want [TS]

  to scroll horizontally there to get to a [TS]

  different icon to send a PDF to like [TS]

  that's weird doesn't work here either so [TS]

  ago of course like a diligent little [TS]

  person I to filed with a little feedback [TS]

  things like they had that they had a [TS]

  little application that you can use I [TS]

  open it up and is like hey just let you [TS]

  guys like to know that there's a weird [TS]

  bug that i can imagine you might miss [TS]

  was like in ibooks and share sheet that [TS]

  doesn't scroll properly when you use the [TS]

  pencil [TS]

  I didn't really think anything about it [TS]

  until the second developer beta comes [TS]

  out and nothing has changed and then the [TS]

  second public beta came out and nothing [TS]

  had changed and that's when I started to [TS]

  worry because that's when it feels like [TS]

  this is in a bug [TS]

  this is a decision my concern currently [TS]

  is that we have made this bed for [TS]

  ourselves what do you mean I think that [TS]

  when apple introduced the pencil it work [TS]

  the way it did because they didn't [TS]

  really think about it they created a [TS]

  device that allows you to manipulate iOS [TS]

  like a finger would just because it [TS]

  recognizes touch [TS]

  whoo-hoo so it's just it is what it is [TS]

  and in a sign outside of applications of [TS]

  its cause you I just because it does [TS]

  like didn't really think about it and [TS]

  when they saw my feeling is when they [TS]

  saw people like me in you and not [TS]

  necessarily me and you but you know [TS]

  using the ipad like a pen tablet and [TS]

  using the pencil like a stylist who they [TS]

  decided that that wasn't right for our [TS]

  iPad and have removed the function [TS]

  that's what I think happened to ya this [TS]

  is what I am deeply deeply worried about [TS]

  because there's certain things that [TS]

  Apple does which just feel super [TS]

  appellee yeah and something about [TS]

  deciding that thou shan't use the pencil [TS]

  as you would use a wacom tablet like [TS]

  this is an apple decision [TS]

  this is not how we want people using our [TS]

  amazing pencil that is for artistes only [TS]

  to be sketching in a museum in a way [TS]

  that we can film for an apple commercial [TS]

  like this is the only thing we want you [TS]

  doing with this and we don't want you [TS]

  using it any other way [TS]

  it just it feels like the kind of thing [TS]

  that Apple might decide and I have never [TS]

  ever been more upset [TS]

  that's about any decision Apple has made [TS]

  than this one again assuming that it is [TS]

  a decision because I mean look I I we've [TS]

  talked about it before on this podcast [TS]

  right I'm a person who has had [TS]

  repetitive strain injuries in my hands [TS]

  for I mean since college going on 15 [TS]

  years now this is the thing that I can [TS]

  live with because it's a thing that I [TS]

  managed and in the course of those 15 [TS]

  years with out a doubt the number one [TS]

  most effective tool for reducing RSI has [TS]

  been using a pen tablet for the vast [TS]

  majority of my computer interactions we [TS]

  just discussed last time like the very [TS]

  excellent way come into his pet tablet [TS]

  right which is now sitting on my desk [TS]

  which is an amazing piece of hardware [TS]

  that I can use to manipulate all parts [TS]

  of the computer [TS]

  wacom doesn't say oh you can only use [TS]

  our pen tablet for drawing wacom says [TS]

  now you can use scrollbars you can [TS]

  scroll up and down a web page because it [TS]

  would be crazy to make you say on a [TS]

  desktop computer pick up a mouse like oh [TS]

  no you can only you can only interact [TS]

  with web pages if you're using a mouse [TS]

  I mean we when we talked about it on the [TS]

  episode of of cortex which i believe was [TS]

  brick of obligation is where i first [TS]

  talked about having the ipad pro and [TS]

  having this star trek vision of the [TS]

  future for how people work with multiple [TS]

  screens on a flat table and it is really [TS]

  interesting to me that since getting the [TS]

  pro since getting the pencil my life has [TS]

  become so close to this you know we may [TS]

  discuss it next time but like I happen [TS]

  to have been traveling for the past two [TS]

  weeks almost exclusively i've been using [TS]

  my iPad pro flat on a table with my [TS]

  iphone this is how i do almost all of my [TS]

  work I saw my I saw my wife she actually [TS]

  borrowed before i left my ipad pro to do [TS]

  some some research for traveling and she [TS]

  was sitting at a table with her out with [TS]

  my ipad bro with her mini and with her [TS]

  phone like arranging a whole bunch of [TS]

  stuff like this multiple screen thing is [TS]

  obviously the future of computing I [TS]

  think for almost everybody [TS]

  like just your pieces of paper on a desk [TS]

  you're going to have a bunch of screens [TS]

  on the desk that's just the way it's [TS]

  gonna go because eventually they're [TS]

  gonna be that thin as well [TS]

  yeah they're going to be that thin [TS]

  they're gonna be that cheap and I want [TS]

  to have conversations with people about [TS]

  this now they laughing maniacally like [TS]

  what are you crazy working on multiple [TS]

  ip's like that Thomas like but look at [TS]

  how many business people have multiple [TS]

  pieces of paper on a desk it's just [TS]

  gonna happen but my one big concern [TS]

  about this prior to the pro is that [TS]

  manipulating these screens with your [TS]

  hands in what I always think of as [TS]

  finger-painting position right like you [TS]

  are doing finger paints which is [TS]

  extending your fingers out holding your [TS]

  hand in this horizontal position it's [TS]

  not comfortable to do all day long and [TS]

  as someone who has been very aware of [TS]

  RSI issues [TS]

  I'm very conscious of listening to my [TS]

  hands and see if I'm getting any kind of [TS]

  feedback about is this a potential for [TS]

  repetitive strain and I am totally aware [TS]

  that if you want to use iPads all day [TS]

  long i can get repetitive strain injury [TS]

  from that I have gotten repetitive [TS]

  strain injury from using iPads in this [TS]

  position now some people go i use iPads [TS]

  all day and I never have a problem like [TS]

  that's great i'm happy for you but not [TS]

  everybody falls into this category and [TS]

  so when the pencil came it was just [TS]

  amazing to me because i thought wow I am [TS]

  looking at the next 10 years of my [TS]

  computing life i can use a precision [TS]

  pointing tool to interact with a flat [TS]

  screen on a desk in a maximally [TS]

  comfortable way in a way that i can do [TS]

  for 12 hours in a row without any [TS]

  problems and i know because i have been [TS]

  doing that because i was so upset by [TS]

  what is happening with the beta's like I [TS]

  went through all the trouble of rolling [TS]

  back my iPad because it that i can't i [TS]

  can't use the ipad that in this hybrid [TS]

  way of like trying to switch back and [TS]

  forth between using the pen and then [TS]

  putting it down or trying to awkwardly [TS]

  like with my ring finger scroll things [TS]

  on the screen while still holding the [TS]

  pen like it's just an off [TS]

  full awful experience and i am really [TS]

  worried that if this is the decision [TS]

  that Apple has made what I'm looking at [TS]

  is the future of my computing experience [TS]

  and the future of the computing [TS]

  experience for anybody who has RSI [TS]

  problems or just handed manipulation [TS]

  problems being artificially crippled [TS]

  because someone at apple doesn't want [TS]

  people to use iPads in this way that's [TS]

  what I am just so worried about the [TS]

  thing that annoys me the most about this [TS]

  is he didn't want it to do this you [TS]

  could have just done this from the start [TS]

  yeah you should have done this from the [TS]

  start yeah because you've given it and [TS]

  now you are taking it away [TS]

  yeah right i'm sitting here like almost [TS]

  trembling at with like fury and [TS]

  upsetness over this because like you [TS]

  gave me a taste of the computing future [TS]

  that i always want that i need and now [TS]

  you are taking it away just because and [TS]

  this wouldn't be the first time that [TS]

  Apple's done something like this like it [TS]

  with this kind of reminds me of is the [TS]

  whole kerfuffle that happened over with [TS]

  the today view on iphones when they [TS]

  first came out and that was a case of [TS]

  like okay [TS]

  Apple allow people to put things into [TS]

  this notification center and everybody [TS]

  was calling them widgets and like oh let [TS]

  me build all these new things with the [TS]

  widgets but Apple clearly had some idea [TS]

  of like no this is the today view we [TS]

  only want you to use it to quickly [TS]

  access information about today you [TS]

  should look at your calendar and you [TS]

  should check the weather here but if you [TS]

  want to put a calculator in here no no [TS]

  no that's not how we envision you doing [TS]

  this thing like they've eventually good [TS]

  seeded the ground on that but it was a [TS]

  weird time for Apple was just they had [TS]

  some idea about how they want you to do [TS]

  things and like okay Apple that's great [TS]

  but if you give people tools they're [TS]

  going to come up with better ways to use [TS]

  them then you can think of every [TS]

  possible way to use the thing and I feel [TS]

  like this is the same case with the [TS]

  pencil like someone has an idea of how [TS]

  they want people to use the pencil but [TS]

  people like me [TS]

  has been speaking to other people who [TS]

  use the pencil they want to use it like [TS]

  it's a wacom tablet and I think being [TS]

  able to use it like it's a wacom tablet [TS]

  is way more powerful than what Apple had [TS]

  envisioned for the pencil and they [TS]

  should roll with it like go with this [TS]

  Apple this is good for you [TS]

  this is good for the users yeah don't [TS]

  artificially limit this because it's not [TS]

  how you envision people using your [TS]

  pretty tablet one of class to use my [TS]

  finger [TS]

  yeah why does it have to be my finger [TS]

  yeah cool [TS]

  I don't understand like my think my [TS]

  thinking about it so try and rationalize [TS]

  it i'm assuming that they have something [TS]

  else that they want to do with it right [TS]

  now hmm that this doesn't allow and if [TS]

  that's the case i can understand it they [TS]

  tell me all I know right now is this is [TS]

  how it is now there is a as we stand [TS]

  right now there is a strong potential [TS]

  that 9.3 we released with the ipad air [TS]

  three which will also support the pencil [TS]

  so there might be more functionality [TS]

  coming to the Apple pencil which could [TS]

  explain why this case if that is the [TS]

  case also won't be happy with it i'll be [TS]

  more willing to accept it but if the [TS]

  reasoning is purely what mean you feel [TS]

  right now I consider unacceptable right [TS]

  i mean look I cannot imagine a use case [TS]

  that would justify this decision not [TS]

  neither can i but it's like as if they [TS]

  have a they have a reason something they [TS]

  want to do i can at least see they're [TS]

  thinking right now it just looks like he [TS]

  just being petty [TS]

  yeah I mean we discussed on the previous [TS]

  episodes how the pencil doesn't allow [TS]

  you to operate what I think of as the [TS]

  meta user interface which is opening up [TS]

  splitview pulling down notification [TS]

  center opening up control center and we [TS]

  discussed on that episode [TS]

  oh that's kind of weird at first but you [TS]

  can immediately see why that if you want [TS]

  to do edge swipe gestures with the [TS]

  pencil you can also [TS]

  have that yeah i'm activating it that [TS]

  meta interface it just it just won't [TS]

  work [TS]

  okay i can understand that if you have a [TS]

  drawing program you want to be able to [TS]

  draw in from the edge but if i'm on a [TS]

  webpage and I want to use the Apple [TS]

  pencil to scroll that webpage what the [TS]

  fuck else would I be doing with that [TS]

  pencil on that webpage [TS]

  yeah right like why do you just say no [TS]

  you're not allowed to do that i like [TS]

  that here's the feeling that I have from [TS]

  that is when i was running the beta [TS]

  every time i tried to school something I [TS]

  thought the ipad might as well just make [TS]

  an angry buzzing noise right like that [TS]

  little sound that the mac does when it [TS]

  does something you don't like it goes [TS]

  right and i feel like you know what why [TS]

  don't you just make the Pro go there [TS]

  every time I try to scroll with a web [TS]

  page because that's the feeling that [TS]

  you're giving me I open to share sheet i [TS]

  want to scroll horizontally in it right [TS]

  now I'm reading a book i want to scroll [TS]

  the page with the pencil because it's [TS]

  more comfortable for me to hold this [TS]

  pencil in my hand to always use with my [TS]

  fingers [TS]

  nope we're not gonna let you do that [TS]

  it's it's infuriating and it feels [TS]

  almost aggressive towards the user [TS]

  because there's just no reason for it [TS]

  now can I do want to stress that we [TS]

  don't know if this is a decision within [TS]

  Apple but man when it's been 2 beta is [TS]

  later it certainly feels like it's a [TS]

  decision we're preparing for the worst [TS]

  based on the fact that we notice company [TS]

  and I want to just just want to get this [TS]

  out there now we use apple products we [TS]

  love apple products we know this stuff [TS]

  happens here it's really annoying [TS]

  we're not going to switch the windows [TS]

  surface it's extremely unlikely because [TS]

  there are many reasons of them just this [TS]

  that we use our devices [TS]

  yeah that is but that is precisely why [TS]

  this is so upsetting is being as I look [TS]

  around and there are no other options [TS]

  for all the things that I want to do [TS]

  including transition costs that can do [TS]

  what I want to do because it's like [TS]

  people go why don't we just a place like [TS]

  okay listen you understand i don't use [TS]

  one markdown text editor i use five four [TS]

  different things like I have a lot of [TS]

  specific needs here that are only met by [TS]

  this ecosystem and so that is precisely [TS]

  why this is so upsetting it's like I [TS]

  don't have an alternative [TS]

  and I've you in this moment if Apple [TS]

  makes this decision the way that I'm [TS]

  afraid they're going to i am facing who [TS]

  knows how many years of having to use [TS]

  this thing in a limited way and and like [TS]

  going going back to one of our earlier [TS]

  discussions about jailbreaking I have [TS]

  never been so close to be tempted by [TS]

  jailbreaking then I am with this vision [TS]

  of apple releasing the software and not [TS]

  allowing you to use the pencil to [TS]

  interact with all of the interface and I [TS]

  feel like Apple what justification could [TS]

  you possibly have to put me in a [TS]

  situation where i am making a decision [TS]

  between do I want to protect my digital [TS]

  security or do I want to protect the [TS]

  health of my hands [TS]

  that is the the rock and the hard place [TS]

  that I find myself between like okay am [TS]

  I going to jailbreak an ipad pro in the [TS]

  future because I can tell how much [TS]

  benefit i get from being able to use it [TS]

  like this or am I not and just going to [TS]

  accept that I'm going to have problems [TS]

  with my hands that I'm going to have to [TS]

  limit the amount of time that I spend on [TS]

  iPads as i have done in the past when i [TS]

  try to use them in the way that i have [TS]

  been gloriously using perhaps my [TS]

  favorite product that apple has released [TS]

  in the past five years that that's why [TS]

  it is it is to help setting and listen [TS]

  listeners I want right now to try to [TS]

  call on the power of six degrees of [TS]

  separation someone listening to this [TS]

  podcast knows someone at Apple yeah who [TS]

  knows the team that is in charge of this [TS]

  decision i am deadly serious about what [TS]

  I am about to say I will fly to [TS]

  cupertino at any time at my own expense [TS]

  for the opportunity to have five minutes [TS]

  with that team to try and convince them [TS]

  to change this decision [TS]

  I'm deadly serious about this [TS]

  this is how important this is to me [TS]

  because i am thinking about the health [TS]

  of my hands i am willing to go to great [TS]

  cost and vastly greater opportunity cost [TS]

  to try and influence this in what I view [TS]

  as the only same direction [TS]

  my ideal result here is the result that [TS]

  I think makes the most sense considering [TS]

  the use case that we both desire is that [TS]

  this becomes a preference in [TS]

  accessibility please please let this [TS]

  become a preference in accessibility if [TS]

  nothing else [TS]

  yeah like that if that's the only thing [TS]

  i can get apple if you have some some [TS]

  kind of magic that you think you're [TS]

  going to be able to do with the pencil [TS]

  by not letting me scroll and safari I [TS]

  don't want it don't care I don't care [TS]

  what it is you could offer me nothing [TS]

  that i would take in exchange for this [TS]

  it's I mean it's just like if if Apple [TS]

  came to my house and took away all my [TS]

  Wacom tablets and then disabled Wacom [TS]

  tablets from ever working on my computer [TS]

  and they handed me a million dollars i [TS]

  would say please give me the wacom [TS]

  tablet back because i can't buy new [TS]

  hands with a million dollars that's the [TS]

  situation that I'm in here so I'm just [TS]

  I'm very nervous about this mike i am [TS]

  very nervous about this [TS]

  [Music] [TS]