Cortex 25: Creativity, inc.


00:00:00   great I'm ruined why are you running [TS]

00:00:02   like I got upgraded to business class [TS]

00:00:04   haha ah well well well you know what I'm [TS]

00:00:13   going to expect I'm gonna expect a big [TS]

00:00:15   apology because you and many other [TS]

00:00:18   people always give me grief about flying [TS]

00:00:22   standby but I didn't try to schedule [TS]

00:00:24   things to get an upgrade to business [TS]

00:00:26   class i'm not saying you flew standby [TS]

00:00:28   but you now have tasted the sweet sweet [TS]

00:00:32   vector of business class and you're [TS]

00:00:35   telling me the giroux and so now [TS]

00:00:37   imagining you can understand why someone [TS]

00:00:41   might make plans around even the mere [TS]

00:00:44   chance of getting business class if this [TS]

00:00:46   if it is statistically proven that it is [TS]

00:00:49   more likely for you to receive business [TS]

00:00:52   or opera or first because of flying [TS]

00:00:54   standby [TS]

00:00:55   oh it is the way I fly it is then i can [TS]

00:00:59   understand now [TS]

00:01:00   mm so I was in the airport waiting to [TS]

00:01:04   board where were you where you flying [TS]

00:01:06   from where you flying to from dallas to [TS]

00:01:08   London [TS]

00:01:09   ok that's a pretty long flight so i [TS]

00:01:10   think on the way there is 10 hours on [TS]

00:01:12   the way back it's like a harmless [TS]

00:01:14   something em and I'm sitting in the [TS]

00:01:17   airport I i like to be very early in [TS]

00:01:19   airports very early like lots of time [TS]

00:01:22   yeah that's the only way to be drives [TS]

00:01:23   everybody that I know my life crazy but [TS]

00:01:26   like for example for this flight i made [TS]

00:01:28   sure i was at the airport like four [TS]

00:01:30   hours before if that's reasonable i like [TS]

00:01:33   that i like to just take my time but [TS]

00:01:34   other people think I'm crazy [TS]

00:01:36   no now it's this is the right way to do [TS]

00:01:38   it my feeling is like we can wait at the [TS]

00:01:40   airport or we can wait at home we might [TS]

00:01:42   as well wait at the airport [TS]

00:01:43   good I like that Joanna know my theory [TS]

00:01:45   for this my thinking what if you catch a [TS]

00:01:49   bus or train you can just get the next [TS]

00:01:52   one that does not work so well with [TS]

00:01:54   planes no it does not [TS]

00:01:56   you cannot just get the next one what do [TS]

00:01:59   that that is not a thing that happens [TS]

00:02:01   I'll just wait at the gate until the [TS]

00:02:03   next one pulls up know you want sir you [TS]

00:02:05   will give us have a thousand dollars and [TS]

00:02:07   then maybe if you're lucky you'll get [TS]

00:02:08   there next week [TS]

00:02:10   yeah so I was as getting ready to board [TS]

00:02:14   us sitting at the gate and you know it's [TS]

00:02:16   like they're like but had an [TS]

00:02:17   announcement go out and they set up a [TS]

00:02:19   bunch of names and they said my name [TS]

00:02:20   please approach the desk for an [TS]

00:02:23   important message and also gone though [TS]

00:02:25   what they've done like I'm not going [TS]

00:02:27   home today went out to the lady gave [TS]

00:02:30   them my passport he had like a real [TS]

00:02:31   stone face on she typed in a bunch of [TS]

00:02:33   things she gave me tickets like you've [TS]

00:02:35   been upgraded to business class [TS]

00:02:37   thank you i was like i expected the [TS]

00:02:40   first time this would happen to their to [TS]

00:02:41   be just a little bit more fanfare you [TS]

00:02:44   know like even just a smile maybe she [TS]

00:02:46   just didn't care so by the I cared very [TS]

00:02:49   much because i was very excited about [TS]

00:02:50   all of this so business classes amazing [TS]

00:02:54   i flew with british airways mhm so it i [TS]

00:02:57   basically had a bed that I could make up [TS]

00:03:00   for myself [TS]

00:03:01   ok yeah so this is the thing like [TS]

00:03:03   business class varies wildly between [TS]

00:03:06   airlines and also just between the model [TS]

00:03:09   of planes yeah some business classes you [TS]

00:03:12   get screwed and what you really have is [TS]

00:03:14   economy plus from 30 years ago [TS]

00:03:16   yeah but some business classes you get a [TS]

00:03:19   space seat and so it sounds like you had [TS]

00:03:22   one of those this was this was an older [TS]

00:03:24   plane so it wasn't super fancy but I had [TS]

00:03:27   like a little hard type area there's [TS]

00:03:29   like a divider between me and the two [TS]

00:03:31   people that were on the other side and I [TS]

00:03:34   had a regular chair that had buttons [TS]

00:03:36   that could basically recline me and then [TS]

00:03:39   it could go real down flat and I had [TS]

00:03:40   this foot thing that could bring up and [TS]

00:03:43   i was able to sleep on the plane only [TS]

00:03:48   for a couple of hours because the time [TS]

00:03:49   was a bit weird but I got two hours of [TS]

00:03:51   good uninterruptedly sleep sleeping on [TS]

00:03:55   my side as I like sleeping on a plain [TS]

00:03:58   gray thing I am ruined forever [TS]

00:04:02   yeah now you'll never want to fly again [TS]

00:04:04   unless its business class seats so this [TS]

00:04:06   is my thinking right now is I've been [TS]

00:04:08   flying more and more recently in economy [TS]

00:04:12   plus or premium economy it's called in [TS]

00:04:14   some places I've been flying more and [TS]

00:04:16   more like that because it is just far [TS]

00:04:19   significant for not too much more money [TS]

00:04:21   in some cases yes and especially [TS]

00:04:23   for a tall guy like yourself it really [TS]

00:04:25   makes a difference yeah you got the [TS]

00:04:27   extra space the cabins and more empty [TS]

00:04:29   people with babies for some reason don't [TS]

00:04:31   seem too often by economy plus tickets [TS]

00:04:33   let alone is is worth it [TS]

00:04:36   you can't let metal cutlery in your food [TS]

00:04:39   with like you you basically feel more [TS]

00:04:41   like a civilized human and less like [TS]

00:04:44   cattle [TS]

00:04:44   yeah exactly so I'm luckily in a [TS]

00:04:46   position where I for a lot of the trips [TS]

00:04:49   I can't afford it or their business [TS]

00:04:50   expenses so that you know works out for [TS]

00:04:52   me but now i'm thinking more about like [TS]

00:04:54   for the really long ones could I maybe [TS]

00:04:57   fly business class coming home [TS]

00:04:59   mmm that feels good because going there [TS]

00:05:02   you're excited to go so it doesn't feel [TS]

00:05:04   so bad i think it may be coming home a [TS]

00:05:06   lot of the flights were like red eyes [TS]

00:05:08   could I get a few hours sleep will [TS]

00:05:10   improve my life significantly so for San [TS]

00:05:13   Francisco I'm definitely gonna do it and [TS]

00:05:17   flowing with a friend and we're [TS]

00:05:21   considering doing that together and [TS]

00:05:23   doing virgin and therefore going [TS]

00:05:24   upper-class virginian-pilot upper-class [TS]

00:05:28   they only have upper records fans as [TS]

00:05:31   dick haha way to own it virgin indian [TS]

00:05:35   economy is incredible [TS]

00:05:38   like it feels like you're in a plane in [TS]

00:05:40   that all of their extra words look [TS]

00:05:42   incredible and they bring you like [TS]

00:05:44   champagne when you're getting on the [TS]

00:05:46   plane ice fantastic it's the way to fly [TS]

00:05:49   gray and now I'm ruined forever because [TS]

00:05:52   I wonder what its gonna be like past [TS]

00:05:54   that come with this sounds like to me is [TS]

00:05:57   you need to grow relay into a much [TS]

00:06:00   bigger company so that you can always [TS]

00:06:02   fly upper-class maybe i can set a goal [TS]

00:06:06   for that you know I think it's served in [TS]

00:06:08   emirates where you can actually get like [TS]

00:06:09   a room with double bed if you seen that [TS]

00:06:12   iĆ­ve seen that stuff I've seen that [TS]

00:06:13   stuff the thing with emirates though [TS]

00:06:15   they have these crazy rooms and they're [TS]

00:06:19   like thirty thousand dollar tickets [TS]

00:06:21   delegates it's ridiculous luxury but all [TS]

00:06:23   I can ever think is it looks so tacky [TS]

00:06:25   because they really like gold accented [TS]

00:06:28   everything but I look at things like [TS]

00:06:30   thirty thousand dollars even if i had a [TS]

00:06:33   despair like I wouldn't want to be [TS]

00:06:34   surrounded [TS]

00:06:35   that much tacky gold it just looks gross [TS]

00:06:37   I don't like your design aesthetic I've [TS]

00:06:39   never really looked into them very much [TS]

00:06:40   because emirates ten not to fly to the [TS]

00:06:43   places that I'm going [TS]

00:06:45   mm you know they tend to go the other [TS]

00:06:47   way a lot more right yeah of course but [TS]

00:06:49   yeah so you ruined forever [TS]

00:06:51   you need relay to earn more money to fly [TS]

00:06:53   business class that's and speaking of [TS]

00:06:56   which mile rd listeners can help us fly [TS]

00:06:59   business class when we go for our [TS]

00:07:01   acceptance speech for our campaign [TS]

00:07:03   oh right of course of course you've been [TS]

00:07:05   very busy like very busy we have [TS]

00:07:07   t-shirts we have gray Holly 2016 [TS]

00:07:10   t-shirts available we were working on a [TS]

00:07:13   design this is this is a little bit of [TS]

00:07:15   the back story of how this t-shirt came [TS]

00:07:18   to be working on a design and I was [TS]

00:07:20   showing you the designs i was gonna say [TS]

00:07:22   what really happened here is you [TS]

00:07:23   surprised me with a t-shirt design I was [TS]

00:07:25   minding my own business and you sent me [TS]

00:07:27   a design for yourself which I really [TS]

00:07:30   liked them and we worked and developing [TS]

00:07:33   it and then we had two colors we had a [TS]

00:07:34   white and a blue and we only wanted to [TS]

00:07:37   do one color because that we're going to [TS]

00:07:39   be our campaign color and we we weren't [TS]

00:07:41   sure what to do so you suggested to me [TS]

00:07:43   why don't you put it to a Twitter vote [TS]

00:07:45   and then I got really carried away [TS]

00:07:48   yeah you seem to run like a bunch of [TS]

00:07:50   runoffs and mm you know there's a lot of [TS]

00:07:53   right public deciding for the design of [TS]

00:07:55   the great early 2016 shirt and what we [TS]

00:07:58   came down to was we doing a blue t-shirt [TS]

00:08:01   a couple of different shades of blue and [TS]

00:08:04   there is a there is a men's a woman's [TS]

00:08:07   and a unisex long sleeve t-shirts and [TS]

00:08:10   amend ever men's and women's short [TS]

00:08:11   sleeve any unisex long sleeve which [TS]

00:08:13   we're doing with teespring but we've got [TS]

00:08:16   something a little bit different this [TS]

00:08:18   time that we've never done before I've [TS]

00:08:19   never done before [TS]

00:08:20   there's a link in the show notes that [TS]

00:08:22   you can click and teespring have been [TS]

00:08:24   really good to us and they set up [TS]

00:08:25   distribution from the US and the EU [TS]

00:08:29   though so it should reduce shipping [TS]

00:08:31   costs for most people outside of the US [TS]

00:08:35   this is something that I don't trust me [TS]

00:08:37   i feel this because i buy all the shirts [TS]

00:08:40   from the US but they've hooked us up [TS]

00:08:42   with this if there's like a special link [TS]

00:08:44   that you'll find in our show notes and [TS]

00:08:45   it does it by geo location and it works [TS]

00:08:47   out with [TS]

00:08:48   which one to switch campaign to send you [TS]

00:08:50   to so you'll be able to buy one of our [TS]

00:08:53   great t-shirts and support the campaign [TS]

00:08:56   these are only available into april [TS]

00:08:58   first so this is the only time you're [TS]

00:09:00   gonna hear us talk about this so if you [TS]

00:09:03   want one you got to go buy them because [TS]

00:09:05   they will only be available until april [TS]

00:09:07   first and i think it's great i think [TS]

00:09:09   they do look great yeah you had to [TS]

00:09:11   emojis drawing up there using emoji and [TS]

00:09:15   for many gas customer g and yes if [TS]

00:09:18   people want to get their hands on the [TS]

00:09:19   gray early 2016 shirt if you are hearing [TS]

00:09:23   the sound of my voice right now and you [TS]

00:09:25   have just recently downloaded the [TS]

00:09:26   episode you need to get in gear [TS]

00:09:29   click the link in the show notes and [TS]

00:09:31   grab the shirt before this campaign [TS]

00:09:33   season is over we had a lot of people [TS]

00:09:35   say why is there no gray sure and they [TS]

00:09:37   expected that they would have to be a [TS]

00:09:39   gracious campaigns blue you you endorse [TS]

00:09:41   the blue right what I endorsed was if [TS]

00:09:44   you're having something that looks like [TS]

00:09:45   a presidential campaign logo it has to [TS]

00:09:48   be red white and blue is like there's no [TS]

00:09:50   there's no choice about that it's got to [TS]

00:09:52   be red white and blue and we go [TS]

00:09:53   you don't have presidential campaigns [TS]

00:09:55   where someone is running a gray color [TS]

00:09:56   that just doesn't happen people fooled i [TS]

00:09:59   was getting carried away without your [TS]

00:10:00   blessing [TS]

00:10:01   well I mean you kind of were like I came [TS]

00:10:03   back after some hidden message [TS]

00:10:05   conversation to discover that you had [TS]

00:10:07   run all of these various votes on [TS]

00:10:09   Twitter like I had happens actually [TS]

00:10:11   involved in some other things we will [TS]

00:10:13   talk about later [TS]

00:10:14   I just came back to my phone and it's [TS]

00:10:15   like Oh Mike's been busy yesterday you [TS]

00:10:17   did I mean like they're not they're not [TS]

00:10:18   wrong [TS]

00:10:19   I got I got carried away but within the [TS]

00:10:21   constraints you know I just really went [TS]

00:10:24   to the edges of those constraints for [TS]

00:10:26   there were no constraints I told you [TS]

00:10:28   instant message you know you go you go [TS]

00:10:29   right ahead like.you know I i justyou [TS]

00:10:32   you asked me for some feedback i made [TS]

00:10:34   some suggestions I / no constraints [TS]

00:10:37   given don't don't radically portray this [TS]

00:10:39   in a different way from the way it [TS]

00:10:40   actually unfolded you know if you're [TS]

00:10:42   going to be my running mate I I trust [TS]

00:10:45   you to make these kind of decisions but [TS]

00:10:48   i am going to complain when I don't like [TS]

00:10:49   the look of it that's what I was doing [TS]

00:10:51   yeah at that feels like a president vp [TS]

00:10:55   situation I think you can do whatever [TS]

00:10:57   you want as long as I'm okay with it [TS]

00:10:59   how our houses search for campaign [TS]

00:11:04   headquarters going ok listen I know what [TS]

00:11:07   you're trying to do here right now we're [TS]

00:11:09   trying to do here because listeners in [TS]

00:11:13   the show notes the thing that we are [TS]

00:11:15   going to talk about next is my further [TS]

00:11:18   adventures in finding an office finding [TS]

00:11:21   an office for me I their usual thanks [TS]

00:11:27   trying to hit along here because they [TS]

00:11:31   were together in the shown as I thought [TS]

00:11:32   you are connecting them you know [TS]

00:11:34   no I was not connect oh no they are [TS]

00:11:37   separated by several carriage returns [TS]

00:11:40   there's no way anyone could actually [TS]

00:11:43   confuse these as related topics they [TS]

00:11:45   also i'm just a simple related topics [TS]

00:11:48   no this is a is the next bullet point [TS]

00:11:50   not connected to the previous [TS]

00:11:52   bullet-point today's episode of cortex [TS]

00:11:55   is brought to you by PDF pen pro from [TS]

00:11:57   smile you have me say before that PDF [TS]

00:12:00   pen is the swiss army knife for pdfs [TS]

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00:12:20   use that text in other places and you [TS]

00:12:22   can also explore your PDF into Microsoft [TS]

00:12:24   Word format but only with PDF pen pro [TS]

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00:13:08   some features that I just need once in a [TS]

00:13:10   blue moon [TS]

00:13:11   but when I need it I have it and that's [TS]

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00:13:16   free demo of PDF m-pro 7 today by [TS]

00:13:19   visiting smile software.com / cortex PDF [TS]

00:13:23   pen pro 7 requires Yosemite or later and [TS]

00:13:26   what's great on El Capitan thank you so [TS]

00:13:29   much to smile for their support of this [TS]

00:13:30   show and really FM so actually i am not [TS]

00:13:36   looking for a private office because I [TS]

00:13:39   currently have an office huh [TS]

00:13:43   yes i know this yeah you in it [TS]

00:13:48   not right now okay i'm in my house right [TS]

00:13:50   now [TS]

00:13:51   ok but yet you mentioned last time on [TS]

00:13:56   the show about like surely there are [TS]

00:13:57   services that can try to help you find [TS]

00:14:00   office space and long story short that [TS]

00:14:02   is essentially what i did was i was [TS]

00:14:05   using a website that specializes in [TS]

00:14:07   trying to find people office space [TS]

00:14:08   instead of just interrogating buildings [TS]

00:14:11   or searching around and just trying to [TS]

00:14:12   find things which was not working super [TS]

00:14:15   great [TS]

00:14:16   nah and yeah it's it's been interesting [TS]

00:14:19   because you know when you are searching [TS]

00:14:23   for anything you have a bunch of [TS]

00:14:25   criteria and whenever you're having a [TS]

00:14:29   hard time finding something you know [TS]

00:14:30   like one of your criteria has to give [TS]

00:14:33   and so as mentioned last time I really [TS]

00:14:36   really really didn't want anything that [TS]

00:14:38   was not within walking distance and that [TS]

00:14:40   is already such an incredible constraint [TS]

00:14:43   about like what is the exact area that I [TS]

00:14:45   want an office in then you add in a [TS]

00:14:47   couple of other things that I wanted and [TS]

00:14:48   like I was going to be a hard thing to [TS]

00:14:50   find [TS]

00:14:51   so the thing that had to give was of [TS]

00:14:53   course price so i do have this private [TS]

00:14:57   office that is in a big building but it [TS]

00:15:01   is very expensive so i have for the [TS]

00:15:05   moment i have only signed a lease for [TS]

00:15:08   six weeks because i need to make sure [TS]

00:15:10   that this is a place that I am actually [TS]

00:15:12   going to use that i'm actually going to [TS]

00:15:14   work at because otherwise the fixed cost [TS]

00:15:18   of this office is many multiples of the [TS]

00:15:21   co-working space in which [TS]

00:15:23   I currently am and so is one of the [TS]

00:15:25   things like will this be worth it will [TS]

00:15:28   it not I don't know I've been working [TS]

00:15:32   there for let's see what today's [TS]

00:15:34   thursday i just moved in four days ago [TS]

00:15:39   so I've been going there and and working [TS]

00:15:41   there a little bit in the mornings and [TS]

00:15:43   evenings and it's been going well but i [TS]

00:15:45   need to make sure that i'm i'm actually [TS]

00:15:46   going to be very very efficiently use [TS]

00:15:49   this space otherwise it will not be [TS]

00:15:51   worth keeping but this is the progress [TS]

00:15:53   so far would you like to see a picture [TS]

00:15:55   Mike I should show you a picture make [TS]

00:15:58   sure you remove the geotag from the [TS]

00:16:00   picture so i can show up [TS]

00:16:02   yeah haha mommy I brought your coffee [TS]

00:16:09   I was one step ahead of you with that [TS]

00:16:11   you think I'm ever going to share with [TS]

00:16:12   you a geotag picture of my office [TS]

00:16:16   no of course not here let me show you a [TS]

00:16:18   picture of what it looked like before I [TS]

00:16:20   moved in ok and I'll these will be [TS]

00:16:23   appropriate for the show notes they will [TS]

00:16:25   be yeah I think that's about how is that [TS]

00:16:28   very exciting it is what if this is [TS]

00:16:30   there a window [TS]

00:16:31   you don't want people to like spot [TS]

00:16:33   landmarks and then you know i can [TS]

00:16:35   imagine someone with all the pictures on [TS]

00:16:36   the wall was like stirring connecting [TS]

00:16:38   them and stuff i specifically selected [TS]

00:16:41   an office that has no windows [TS]

00:16:43   I did not want the distraction of a [TS]

00:16:44   window that is that ok this is a sad [TS]

00:16:51   this is a very sad-looking office it up [TS]

00:16:56   the word picture for the people Mike [TS]

00:17:00   they're basically it looks like an [TS]

00:17:04   interrogation room I think that's a [TS]

00:17:06   little harsh know there are two tables [TS]

00:17:08   there's a lamp [TS]

00:17:10   there's no windows and a fluorescent [TS]

00:17:11   light that is very interrogation room [TS]

00:17:13   like it's just a square room there's two [TS]

00:17:18   chairs there's two telephones there is [TS]

00:17:21   some obscure artwork of a building on [TS]

00:17:24   the wall you have generic corporate [TS]

00:17:26   artwork it's not relate very well this [TS]

00:17:28   this office [TS]

00:17:29   no it is not no it's not and there is a [TS]

00:17:32   cup of coffee sitting on the table and [TS]

00:17:35   there's like a cabinet in the corner [TS]

00:17:36   mm I guess have you done anything to [TS]

00:17:39   make the office feel more homely did you [TS]

00:17:42   paint the walls gray or something [TS]

00:17:44   this office is set up for theoretically [TS]

00:17:48   two people up to four people which I [TS]

00:17:52   find out the horrifying is impossible [TS]

00:17:54   that isn't impossible you could live [TS]

00:17:57   here let me take me like that the place [TS]

00:18:00   where I'm standing to take the photo [TS]

00:18:02   there is a tiny bit of space behind me [TS]

00:18:04   but what you could do and what I have [TS]

00:18:07   seen other offices in this building do [TS]

00:18:08   is put four desks all around the [TS]

00:18:11   perimeter of the wall right don't get [TS]

00:18:13   four people in there so that's nice you [TS]

00:18:15   can just look directly at the warm right [TS]

00:18:18   or the current setup you can look [TS]

00:18:21   directly at the person who's sitting [TS]

00:18:22   directly opposite you it's we discuss [TS]

00:18:26   office layouts once before on the show [TS]

00:18:28   and and this building that I am in its I [TS]

00:18:33   don't know it's like ten stories tall [TS]

00:18:35   all of the floors are nothing but open [TS]

00:18:38   office spaces and there's an elevator [TS]

00:18:41   that I can take up where you happen to [TS]

00:18:43   be able to see into all of the floors [TS]

00:18:45   and just like I go up all the floors you [TS]

00:18:46   can see like these endless endless open [TS]

00:18:48   offices this one floor happens to have [TS]

00:18:51   this section that's carved offer [TS]

00:18:53   individual offices but from my [TS]

00:18:55   perspective all it is is the same thing [TS]

00:18:57   but again on a smaller scale where every [TS]

00:19:00   private office that I walk into actually [TS]

00:19:02   has two to six people crammed in what [TS]

00:19:07   seems like a terribly small space and [TS]

00:19:10   like it's still fundamentally in [TS]

00:19:11   openoffice as far as i can tell i'm the [TS]

00:19:13   only person who has a private office in [TS]

00:19:16   this whole place because I rented their [TS]

00:19:19   smallest one which is for two people but [TS]

00:19:21   I rented it just for me [TS]

00:19:23   so there are other people that have [TS]

00:19:24   these rooms but they have more than one [TS]

00:19:26   person in them [TS]

00:19:27   yeah yeah there's there to people or [TS]

00:19:29   four people in a room this size all [TS]

00:19:31   working together but so yes Mike I did [TS]

00:19:34   spend quite a while making it much more [TS]

00:19:36   homey [TS]

00:19:37   so she would you like to see what looks [TS]

00:19:38   like now yeah I just anticipating know [TS]

00:19:42   liz is your computer on the desk but [TS]

00:19:44   it's the only check [TS]

00:19:47   oh no the radical changes alright a [TS]

00:19:49   whole day [TS]

00:19:50   holding stuff around that is that [TS]

00:19:53   definitely feels like the productive [TS]

00:19:55   notice that you're looking for you know [TS]

00:19:56   get an office end up ok what [TS]

00:20:02   ok um face forward picture Mike I you [TS]

00:20:08   know what I can if you look at the first [TS]

00:20:09   photo and you imagine that all of the [TS]

00:20:12   office furniture in that photo is [TS]

00:20:14   actually a transformer mhm and in the [TS]

00:20:19   second photo it has taken on is fighting [TS]

00:20:21   stance [TS]

00:20:22   haha i like that that's good because all [TS]

00:20:25   you did you just took the furniture and [TS]

00:20:29   put it on top of each other [TS]

00:20:31   okay well first of all first of all most [TS]

00:20:35   importantly i took the painting off the [TS]

00:20:38   wall [TS]

00:20:38   oh yeah where is now needs that now [TS]

00:20:40   where it is is it in storage in this [TS]

00:20:43   office this place I got rid of it was [TS]

00:20:44   like I don't I don't need your painting [TS]

00:20:46   of a building or your photo of a [TS]

00:20:47   building like this is gone there were [TS]

00:20:49   two desks [TS]

00:20:50   now this is this is my attempt like the [TS]

00:20:54   whole reason I have this office is that [TS]

00:20:56   this is my attempt to make like a little [TS]

00:20:59   mini amsterdam situation like we have [TS]

00:21:01   talked about on the podcast before where [TS]

00:21:03   I have a space where I can regularly go [TS]

00:21:05   and i right [TS]

00:21:06   and one of the key things about the way [TS]

00:21:08   that I'm most effectively right is I [TS]

00:21:11   pace back and forth and I talk out loud [TS]

00:21:13   right i type [TS]

00:21:14   yep right so what i don't need is a desk [TS]

00:21:18   to sit at i'm at home right now where I [TS]

00:21:20   have a desk to sit at like there are [TS]

00:21:21   plenty of cafes in London where there [TS]

00:21:23   are places to say that I don't need [TS]

00:21:24   another place to sit at so i took the [TS]

00:21:26   one desk and I stacked on top of the [TS]

00:21:28   other desk and then i set it up as a [TS]

00:21:31   standing desk so I have my keyboard is [TS]

00:21:34   on the first one at standing typing [TS]

00:21:37   height with a little bit of a stand and [TS]

00:21:38   I have my iPad pro is on the top desk so [TS]

00:21:43   that is at eye level for looking at what [TS]

00:21:46   I'm writing and so this is now a space [TS]

00:21:48   where I can walk back and forth i have [TS]

00:21:50   this setup all in place and I don't want [TS]

00:21:54   any pictures in the room I don't want [TS]

00:21:55   anything in the room I was trying to [TS]

00:21:57   spread it out over a period of time so I [TS]

00:21:59   didn't seem like too much of a weirdo to [TS]

00:22:01   the people running the office but like I [TS]

00:22:03   can you take out [TS]

00:22:04   all the phones and like I can you take [TS]

00:22:06   out all of this other stuff that you [TS]

00:22:08   have been here can you remove the [TS]

00:22:10   garbage can like hoping in the garbage [TS]

00:22:11   can like okay I just wanted everything [TS]

00:22:14   out of there except the very few things [TS]

00:22:17   that I was going to use and so I'm [TS]

00:22:19   pretty happy with this [TS]

00:22:20   I could also see that like having the [TS]

00:22:22   floor space for your pacing nature is [TS]

00:22:25   good right so pushing all the furniture [TS]

00:22:27   into one corner basically is good [TS]

00:22:31   because you can move around a lot [TS]

00:22:32   mm it's just some little parts that i [TS]

00:22:34   wanna dig into a little bit more so [TS]

00:22:36   ok what is that circular thing on the [TS]

00:22:40   bottom desk yeah that is a speaker okay [TS]

00:22:43   that is connected to the ipad via [TS]

00:22:47   bluetooth so that it can play Thunder [TS]

00:22:49   sound noises all the time when I'm in [TS]

00:22:51   there was like an imaginary [TS]

00:22:53   thunderstorms taking place in the room [TS]

00:22:54   when I'm working I recommend the app [TS]

00:22:56   Thunder escape to accomplish this is [TS]

00:22:58   very good dust [TS]

00:23:00   mm-hmm so you're in a nondescript [TS]

00:23:06   building who with no windows in the room [TS]

00:23:10   that you're in right on your own [TS]

00:23:13   no the funder sounds playing I need some [TS]

00:23:18   kind of white noise I need to kind of [TS]

00:23:19   white noise whenever working I've just [TS]

00:23:21   stack I don't know if anybody's ever [TS]

00:23:22   described you as an evil supervillain [TS]

00:23:25   before but you're really playing [TS]

00:23:26   painting that picture from now this is [TS]

00:23:28   just an accessibility issue [TS]

00:23:30   uh-huh i have to do this I need to have [TS]

00:23:33   some kind of white noise I can't be in a [TS]

00:23:34   silent room I could just imagine [TS]

00:23:36   somebody walking by your room something [TS]

00:23:39   makes you laugh right [TS]

00:23:41   mhm and they hear the thunder and [TS]

00:23:45   they're like dr. Frankenstein renting a [TS]

00:23:48   place here [TS]

00:23:50   ok that's interesting very interesting [TS]

00:23:52   why Thunder why don't like rain or whale [TS]

00:23:56   music alright well music oh you gotta be [TS]

00:23:59   kidding [TS]

00:24:00   no yeah now that's not that's not what I [TS]

00:24:02   need that's not helpful [TS]

00:24:03   that's not helpful I find like [TS]

00:24:06   thunderstorms rain is just good it's [TS]

00:24:07   just in the background it's easy to to [TS]

00:24:09   kind of forget that it's even there so [TS]

00:24:11   it's that's why use like I don't like [TS]

00:24:14   some people use waves and things I don't [TS]

00:24:16   like that is to period [TS]

00:24:17   addict it's distracting thunderstorms [TS]

00:24:19   that's what you want [TS]

00:24:20   it's not a lot of that ipad I oh yeah so [TS]

00:24:23   there's an ipad which is on the top and [TS]

00:24:25   ipad pro that is my ipad pro is it the [TS]

00:24:28   ipad pro or an iPad pro it is the only [TS]

00:24:32   ipad pro that i own this thing where you [TS]

00:24:35   actually where you're trying to go with [TS]

00:24:36   that just check it now i only own one [TS]

00:24:39   ipad pro and I got a little stand for it [TS]

00:24:42   so that it can be mounted vertically on [TS]

00:24:45   the desk there and I just have my couple [TS]

00:24:47   writing apps on the main screen so it's [TS]

00:24:49   a perfect office setup so far anyway I'm [TS]

00:24:51   gonna just attempt to drive the [TS]

00:24:53   listeners crazy here [TS]

00:24:54   mhm you can kind of make out the apps [TS]

00:24:58   we're not gonna talk about today okay [TS]

00:25:00   there's a new ones in there but we're [TS]

00:25:04   just not gonna talk about it we'll leave [TS]

00:25:05   it for another time [TS]

00:25:06   some people will notice the new ones in [TS]

00:25:08   there uh-huh yeah I didn't even notice [TS]

00:25:09   that when i said to you I should have [TS]

00:25:10   down resident further but i like that [TS]

00:25:13   you can kind of see we'll come back to [TS]

00:25:15   that there is the stuff that I want to [TS]

00:25:16   talk about but I want to build the [TS]

00:25:18   intrigue we gave you sleep on the [TS]

00:25:20   calendar who now we're giving you [TS]

00:25:23   something else to worry about em what we [TS]

00:25:26   talked about office spaces and clothes [TS]

00:25:27   officers who I took a trip to facebook [TS]

00:25:31   last week [TS]

00:25:32   oh yeah yeah a friend of mine comes over [TS]

00:25:34   from San Francisco works facebook and he [TS]

00:25:37   invited me to go visit the London [TS]

00:25:40   offices would hate it all my would you [TS]

00:25:43   hate it [TS]

00:25:44   yeah is it open always it's as open as [TS]

00:25:47   an office space could be well I'm i [TS]

00:25:49   would expect no less from facebook [TS]

00:25:51   because they had that marine the article [TS]

00:25:54   about their new headquarters that they [TS]

00:25:55   built which is the largest open floor [TS]

00:25:58   space in the world my buddy works there [TS]

00:26:00   he says he gets like 5,000 steps a day [TS]

00:26:02   just trying to do his job [TS]

00:26:04   God so I'm so when you tell me that [TS]

00:26:08   London has a big open office space i'm [TS]

00:26:10   not surprised yes over a couple of [TS]

00:26:11   floors but like I got went in there and [TS]

00:26:13   there were four people really [TS]

00:26:15   enthusiastically playing ping-pong [TS]

00:26:17   mm like really enthusiastically playing [TS]

00:26:19   there was no joke who had a couple of [TS]

00:26:22   floors they have snacks everywhere [TS]

00:26:24   we had lunch at the canteen which is [TS]

00:26:26   like completely free food and there was [TS]

00:26:29   like sweets and stuff it was great that [TS]

00:26:31   everybody where there was like working [TS]

00:26:33   spaces it was just like rows and rows of [TS]

00:26:36   desks it was interesting to me because [TS]

00:26:38   everything was really cool and fancy and [TS]

00:26:40   it looked lovely but when you look at [TS]

00:26:42   the desks there's just nothing you can [TS]

00:26:44   really do it always just looks not that [TS]

00:26:46   nice [TS]

00:26:47   yeah it's always just gonna be a [TS]

00:26:48   computer and a flat surface like that's [TS]

00:26:49   just what you're gonna have yeah and and [TS]

00:26:51   it's just it seems funny to me so you [TS]

00:26:52   can spend all this money and time and [TS]

00:26:54   effort into like creating these great [TS]

00:26:56   spaces but the actual places that you [TS]

00:26:58   sit down and work there just rows of [TS]

00:27:00   white desks like there's nothing you can [TS]

00:27:02   do about it and it was just interesting [TS]

00:27:03   to me to see it now hopefully when i [TS]

00:27:06   visit San Francisco next I'm gonna go [TS]

00:27:08   and take a look at the facebook office [TS]

00:27:10   there and I'm interested to see what [TS]

00:27:12   that one looks like as well yeah I would [TS]

00:27:15   be very curious to see that on the [TS]

00:27:17   inside as well yeah because i can [TS]

00:27:19   imagine it's everything I saw last week [TS]

00:27:23   turned up to eleven sure but i can't [TS]

00:27:26   imagine you driving in an environment [TS]

00:27:28   like that I just don't think I would be [TS]

00:27:31   able to do good work in an environment [TS]

00:27:35   like that i mean i would just have to be [TS]

00:27:36   doing some kind of very different job in [TS]

00:27:40   order to do work i saw a lot of people [TS]

00:27:42   in kind of corners and things like that [TS]

00:27:46   like on bean bags and stuff like it [TS]

00:27:47   seemed like there were a lot of people [TS]

00:27:49   that were like I can't work in these [TS]

00:27:50   banks of desks [TS]

00:27:52   mmm everyone seems really spread out [TS]

00:27:53   even though there were all these desks [TS]

00:27:56   and most of them are empty people were [TS]

00:27:59   in other places [TS]

00:28:00   yeah there have been let's just say [TS]

00:28:03   there have been big open office [TS]

00:28:05   environment that I have been in where I [TS]

00:28:06   have noticed the same phenomenon like [TS]

00:28:09   there are tons of desks there's clearly [TS]

00:28:12   personal items on all of these desks and [TS]

00:28:14   as far as i can tell every available [TS]

00:28:17   space that is not a desk is the space [TS]

00:28:19   that people are actually using to do [TS]

00:28:21   work like if they can get away from [TS]

00:28:23   their desk they are going to and I'm [TS]

00:28:26   like well isn't that interesting [TS]

00:28:28   maybe you company we might want to take [TS]

00:28:30   note of this [TS]

00:28:31   it's like if you if you have other [TS]

00:28:33   spaces for people to work they will work [TS]

00:28:36   there they will not work [TS]

00:28:38   their infinite rows of white desks with [TS]

00:28:40   computers in front of them just like [TS]

00:28:43   just the thing to note companies just [TS]

00:28:45   saying so that the plan the plan Mike [TS]

00:28:48   with this office is that I'm going to be [TS]

00:28:52   writing here and so for the moment what [TS]

00:28:55   I'm doing is I am trying to treat this [TS]

00:28:59   very much as like a holy like a [TS]

00:29:01   sacrosanct place like I'm taking it very [TS]

00:29:04   very seriously the idea that you go here [TS]

00:29:08   you're only going to do one thing which [TS]

00:29:11   is pacing and writing and when you're [TS]

00:29:14   not doing that you're going to leave so [TS]

00:29:17   this this feeds back into what we were [TS]

00:29:19   talking about on previous episodes that [TS]

00:29:21   i am trying to teach my own brain to [TS]

00:29:25   train my own brain like this is the [TS]

00:29:27   thing that happens in this room [TS]

00:29:30   nothing else happens in this room we [TS]

00:29:32   don't do emails here we don't look at [TS]

00:29:34   read it here we don't do anything else [TS]

00:29:36   which is part of the very reason why I [TS]

00:29:38   didn't even want chairs in the room like [TS]

00:29:40   I don't want the option to sit down [TS]

00:29:42   because if I need to sit down i can do [TS]

00:29:44   that plenty of other places so that's [TS]

00:29:47   what I'm I'm trying to establish this [TS]

00:29:50   and I'm trying to build little little [TS]

00:29:52   routines like when I'm walking towards [TS]

00:29:54   this office there's a there's a certain [TS]

00:29:56   landmark that I pass was like when I [TS]

00:29:58   passed that landmark if I'm listening to [TS]

00:30:00   music or podcasts or anything like it [TS]

00:30:02   has to go off like we have to get ready [TS]

00:30:04   as we're approaching this place to start [TS]

00:30:05   doing the work and like all the stuff i [TS]

00:30:07   thinks like it sounds kind of crazy but [TS]

00:30:10   I'm just I'm trying to be super strict [TS]

00:30:13   about it in the same way that like I was [TS]

00:30:16   really aware that in that Amsterdam trip [TS]

00:30:17   it was very easy to feel like I'm being [TS]

00:30:19   very serious about this and kind of [TS]

00:30:22   taking away my own decision-making [TS]

00:30:24   ability now whether or not this works is [TS]

00:30:28   a question that i will only have the [TS]

00:30:30   answer to six weeks from now so we'll [TS]

00:30:32   have to see in the future like does this [TS]

00:30:34   work because if it's just another office [TS]

00:30:37   space then it doesn't make sense for me [TS]

00:30:38   to continue to rent it but i am i'm [TS]

00:30:41   trying to be very very sacrosanct about [TS]

00:30:45   this little writing monastery that I [TS]

00:30:48   have [TS]

00:30:48   of at least for the time being so we'll [TS]

00:30:50   have to check in later and see how it [TS]

00:30:51   goes [TS]

00:30:52   are you just writing no research in that [TS]

00:30:55   the short answer is yes the slightly [TS]

00:31:00   longer answer is that I do let myself [TS]

00:31:03   take a look at if I have some stuff in [TS]

00:31:06   say Evernote or do you have some notes [TS]

00:31:08   files that i like to access sometimes [TS]

00:31:10   when I'm writing but i am not allowing [TS]

00:31:13   myself to go out on the internet on like [TS]

00:31:16   a fun fact finding mission right because [TS]

00:31:18   that can just end up taking forever and [TS]

00:31:21   it's not the same kind of thing like as [TS]

00:31:24   I have to discuss before the bottleneck [TS]

00:31:27   for me is the writing process and like [TS]

00:31:29   anything I can do to get more high [TS]

00:31:32   quality writing out in a month is good [TS]

00:31:34   and so like that is what will make this [TS]

00:31:37   office makes sense and again so far just [TS]

00:31:41   for the first you know four days that [TS]

00:31:42   I've had it when it's super easy but [TS]

00:31:44   it's been great like I get up early in [TS]

00:31:46   the morning I walk right out that goes [TS]

00:31:49   straight to the office and I just start [TS]

00:31:51   writing immediately and it's like this [TS]

00:31:53   is what i need there's nothing in the [TS]

00:31:54   morning to interrupt like there's [TS]

00:31:55   nothing to go wrong i'm just going to [TS]

00:31:57   wake up and walk right to this place and [TS]

00:31:59   just try not even to think about it so [TS]

00:32:01   so far so good but it is over the long [TS]

00:32:04   haul that really that really matters [TS]

00:32:06   because what i was going to say is why [TS]

00:32:08   don't you just not connect to the Wi-Fi [TS]

00:32:11   at the office on ipad i already had a [TS]

00:32:13   little conversation with the [TS]

00:32:16   receptionist at the front desk where [TS]

00:32:17   like I will sign you up for your far for [TS]

00:32:19   our telephone internet package and I had [TS]

00:32:21   to explain to them no i don't i don't [TS]

00:32:23   want your telephone or internet package [TS]

00:32:25   and then that was one of the many ways [TS]

00:32:28   in which i draw attention to myself when [TS]

00:32:30   I'm really just this is what I'm saying [TS]

00:32:32   right you don't want connection to the [TS]

00:32:34   outside world you move your furniture [TS]

00:32:36   you took down the picture and you place [TS]

00:32:39   under Moses people must think you're [TS]

00:32:42   like okay evil or crazy but let's just [TS]

00:32:48   say like the I don't want the internet [TS]

00:32:49   was just one in a sequence of things [TS]

00:32:52   that I was like I really don't want to [TS]

00:32:53   be drawing attention to myself but [TS]

00:32:54   literally everything I'm doing is [TS]

00:32:56   drawing attention to myself like I just [TS]

00:32:57   want to move in nice and anonymously [TS]

00:33:00   day one the manager comes in at the end [TS]

00:33:03   of the day to see how I'm doing and he [TS]

00:33:05   takes one look at the place and he goes [TS]

00:33:06   what are you doing in here like if it's [TS]

00:33:10   at this point at this point I like I [TS]

00:33:14   pulled up part of the false floor to get [TS]

00:33:16   at some of the wiring because i wanted [TS]

00:33:17   to hide the telephone wires that were [TS]

00:33:19   coming like I don't need to see these [TS]

00:33:20   wires like I just want to put them back [TS]

00:33:22   under the false floor like I don't need [TS]

00:33:24   beautiful hi it's it's just it wasn't uh [TS]

00:33:28   it's like I just want to be anonymous [TS]

00:33:31   please don't walk in here right now like [TS]

00:33:33   just I'm just gonna come in and i'm just [TS]

00:33:35   going to leave and I'm going to talk to [TS]

00:33:37   nobody like you never have to worry [TS]

00:33:38   about my office people like I'm just [TS]

00:33:40   here doing my own thing playing my [TS]

00:33:42   Thunder noises [TS]

00:33:50   this episode of cortex is also brought [TS]

00:33:57   to you by however quite simply hover is [TS]

00:33:59   the best way to buy and manage domain [TS]

00:34:02   names [TS]

00:34:03   it's my place of choice and has been for [TS]

00:34:06   years it's the first place I think of to [TS]

00:34:09   go when I have an idea for a new project [TS]

00:34:12   and in fact just yesterday I bought two [TS]

00:34:16   new domain names with hover for projects [TS]

00:34:20   that i am thinking about under the [TS]

00:34:22   hashtag year of less brackets me I might [TS]

00:34:27   not do anything with them for a very [TS]

00:34:28   long time I might not do anything with [TS]

00:34:30   them ever i don't know we'll have to see [TS]

00:34:32   what ends up happening but what I do [TS]

00:34:34   know is that i came up with two great [TS]

00:34:36   names that I really wanted to grab and [TS]

00:34:40   so the first thing I did was I went to [TS]

00:34:42   hover check that they were available [TS]

00:34:44   indeed they work which is always [TS]

00:34:46   exciting and I got them immediately and [TS]

00:34:50   what I like with hover is that when you [TS]

00:34:52   want to grab that domain name you never [TS]

00:34:54   know there might be somebody else in the [TS]

00:34:56   world at this very moment also trying to [TS]

00:34:58   get a domain name but if they are using [TS]

00:35:01   one of the other registrar's it's going [TS]

00:35:03   to take them a long time to do it with [TS]

00:35:04   hover you can get that domain in seconds [TS]

00:35:08   it's just simple it's clean it's [TS]

00:35:10   straightforward you know what you want [TS]

00:35:12   with whoever you want a domain name and [TS]

00:35:14   they let you get it easy-peasy while [TS]

00:35:18   they have all of the domain names you [TS]

00:35:19   would expect they also have just tons of [TS]

00:35:21   the little ones and the funny ones like [TS]

00:35:23   dot coffee and dot limos and all the [TS]

00:35:26   weird things that are there the domains [TS]

00:35:28   i registered happened to be one of the [TS]

00:35:30   smaller domain names so it's nice to be [TS]

00:35:32   able to do that just through however [TS]

00:35:34   they have whois privacy for free so that [TS]

00:35:37   you can keep your private details [TS]

00:35:39   private there's a hover valet service [TS]

00:35:41   where if you're using an inferior [TS]

00:35:43   registrar you can get everything just [TS]

00:35:45   moved over to hover automatically in a [TS]

00:35:47   way that you just don't have to care [TS]

00:35:49   about hover will take care of it all for [TS]

00:35:51   you and they have a new feature called [TS]

00:35:53   hover connect which makes it easier than [TS]

00:35:56   ever to get your domain name connected [TS]

00:35:58   with a website so if you have bought a [TS]

00:36:01   domain name and you want [TS]

00:36:02   you connect it to some other service [TS]

00:36:04   like you want to make your tumblr blog [TS]

00:36:06   use the domain name or whatever you can [TS]

00:36:08   just have hover use that automatically [TS]

00:36:11   for you have everything connected up [TS]

00:36:13   behind the scenes it's great it's simple [TS]

00:36:16   so right now go to hover dot-com and use [TS]

00:36:19   the code creativity at checkout and [TS]

00:36:22   you'll get ten percent off your purchase [TS]

00:36:24   at hover and show your support for [TS]

00:36:26   cortex and all of real afm there's tons [TS]

00:36:30   of stuff that however has I only talked [TS]

00:36:32   about a little bit of it but they're [TS]

00:36:34   what i always use to register my doing [TS]

00:36:36   names so thanks to hover for supporting [TS]

00:36:38   the show is probably the first time this [TS]

00:36:40   has happened in between our two episodes [TS]

00:36:44   you release to youtube videos [TS]

00:36:46   oh yeah I did what happened yeah [TS]

00:36:49   amsterdam happened yeah partly that [TS]

00:36:54   that's actually that's actually no joke [TS]

00:36:56   like a i was able to move both videos [TS]

00:36:58   forward quite a lot during that period [TS]

00:37:00   of time and it just happened to work out [TS]

00:37:02   that they were both finishing up around [TS]

00:37:05   the same time and you know me if I have [TS]

00:37:08   something done [TS]

00:37:08   I just want to release it so they were [TS]

00:37:10   finished a week apart so I released the [TS]

00:37:11   week apart [TS]

00:37:12   that was the video this the second part [TS]

00:37:15   to the America box video right which I i [TS]

00:37:19   really liked that video I have to say [TS]

00:37:21   I've seen that video now about four or [TS]

00:37:23   five times for various reasons no [TS]

00:37:25   excellent let's get that you count up [TS]

00:37:27   yep might be one of my favorite videos [TS]

00:37:30   appeals interesting it's interesting you [TS]

00:37:32   say that because i'm not sure i think [TS]

00:37:37   that the the section which is the very [TS]

00:37:42   end of that video the zebra section like [TS]

00:37:45   zebras vs horses I think that might be [TS]

00:37:47   the best thing i have written to date [TS]

00:37:49   that particular section [TS]

00:37:50   yeah sure i'm not sure if this is like [TS]

00:37:52   my favorite video that I've ever made I [TS]

00:37:54   wouldn't say that I still think humans [TS]

00:37:56   not applies my favorite thing that I [TS]

00:37:57   have done but that little section about [TS]

00:38:00   like horse herds hierarchy and like all [TS]

00:38:03   the zebra stuff like I think that just [TS]

00:38:04   came out amazingly and without a doubt [TS]

00:38:07   that was all done in Amsterdam [TS]

00:38:09   embarrassingly my favorite line from the [TS]

00:38:12   video which nobody appreciated but I [TS]

00:38:14   just loved was at the line about 40 is [TS]

00:38:17   there's no such thing as society when i [TS]

00:38:19   came up with that in Amsterdam I [TS]

00:38:21   literally did like a little fist pump to [TS]

00:38:24   myself in the hotel room I was like [TS]

00:38:26   that's gold like I love this that's [TS]

00:38:29   amazing right [TS]

00:38:30   I was super excited about that like [TS]

00:38:32   nobody commented on that locking [TS]

00:38:35   absolutely nobody you know because that [TS]

00:38:37   wasn't the goals of the video man could [TS]

00:38:40   always hot chicken [TS]

00:38:41   everybody loved top chicken and nobody [TS]

00:38:45   loved my for zebras there's no such [TS]

00:38:47   thing as society like to give you go [TS]

00:38:49   back and you watch that video you can [TS]

00:38:50   hear me really sell there's no such [TS]

00:38:53   thing as society in the reading but like [TS]

00:38:55   nobody cared [TS]

00:38:56   this is where you just never know what [TS]

00:38:58   people reacted that delivery of top [TS]

00:39:00   check-in that's what know we're top [TS]

00:39:03   chicken and it zooms in on the great [TS]

00:39:04   phase perfect so that that's why i think [TS]

00:39:07   i liked this video is there were lots of [TS]

00:39:10   little all flourishes in the delivery [TS]

00:39:13   and the animation that I really enjoy i [TS]

00:39:17   spoke about these on the show before the [TS]

00:39:19   things that i really like like the [TS]

00:39:21   visual jokes that tie up with something [TS]

00:39:23   that you're saying and there were a lot [TS]

00:39:24   of those types of things in there like [TS]

00:39:26   the way that the llamas were jumping out [TS]

00:39:28   of the pan and a lot of the stock [TS]

00:39:30   footage that you used really tied up [TS]

00:39:34   very nicely i had right there are just [TS]

00:39:36   lots and lots of little parts of that [TS]

00:39:37   video that i really enjoyed and the more [TS]

00:39:40   I watch this is quite a complex one [TS]

00:39:42   the more the more times i watched it the [TS]

00:39:44   more times i understood what was going [TS]

00:39:46   on and also enjoy it a lot of the little [TS]

00:39:48   details [TS]

00:39:49   yeah i have to say that 1 i'm i'm pretty [TS]

00:39:52   pleased with I probably haven't been as [TS]

00:39:55   pleased with the release since the [TS]

00:39:58   netherlands video i did I mean many [TS]

00:40:00   years ago now where the netherlands one [TS]

00:40:03   was the first video I made when I felt [TS]

00:40:04   like this was just smooth sailing from [TS]

00:40:07   start to finish like I had an idea and [TS]

00:40:09   it came out pretty much exactly the way [TS]

00:40:10   I wanted and and this one [TS]

00:40:12   it wasn't smooth like that but it is [TS]

00:40:14   most of the time when i'm releasing a [TS]

00:40:17   video I feel like oh thank god like this [TS]

00:40:19   is over and it's done and I can just put [TS]

00:40:21   it up online and i will probably never [TS]

00:40:23   watch it again because I kind of cringe [TS]

00:40:25   about it but this one I was [TS]

00:40:27   the ones like oh no this is this is [TS]

00:40:29   great like I'm pretty happy with the way [TS]

00:40:30   it came out like it worked out well in [TS]

00:40:32   the end and so its up and I'm it's like [TS]

00:40:34   I'm up was much more like a happy day [TS]

00:40:35   like oh well Paul releases to the world [TS]

00:40:37   and then also people stop yelling at me [TS]

00:40:39   for the second part of the America box [TS]

00:40:41   video which I was getting a lot of on [TS]

00:40:42   twitter i cannot believe that you get [TS]

00:40:44   out as quickly as you did you never know [TS]

00:40:46   with me you never know what's going to I [TS]

00:40:47   was expecting at least two more videos [TS]

00:40:49   before part 2 like to keep people [TS]

00:40:52   guessing you know I keep them on their [TS]

00:40:53   toes and then he released the Star Trek [TS]

00:40:56   transporter video [TS]

00:40:58   yep which i know is when you've been [TS]

00:40:59   working on for a very long time [TS]

00:41:02   yeah really long time that one's been in [TS]

00:41:04   the been in the books these two videos [TS]

00:41:06   are actually quite similar to me in some [TS]

00:41:09   ways because both of them are are not so [TS]

00:41:12   reliant on my drawing anything like the [TS]

00:41:16   America box part two is largely stock [TS]

00:41:19   footage and then the star trek video is [TS]

00:41:22   entirely the artwork of Knut who I [TS]

00:41:25   worked with on several projects before [TS]

00:41:27   including the Lord of the Rings videos [TS]

00:41:29   and the single transferable vote video [TS]

00:41:31   so both of these have a very very [TS]

00:41:34   different style but I I wanted to look [TS]

00:41:37   to today and think like a when did I [TS]

00:41:39   really get started on the star trek [TS]

00:41:41   video and I went back into the slack [TS]

00:41:44   that i use for people that I work with [TS]

00:41:46   and I got the first concept drawings [TS]

00:41:50   from Knut on october 11 for the star [TS]

00:41:54   trek video was the very first time I had [TS]

00:41:58   approached him and I asked i want to do [TS]

00:42:00   something on Star Trek give me a couple [TS]

00:42:02   of visual styles and he dropped [TS]

00:42:04   something in the slack [TS]

00:42:05   I mean what is that now like four months [TS]

00:42:07   ago thats lot long time ago from from [TS]

00:42:10   the current day so these things are in [TS]

00:42:12   in progress for quite a while so I mean [TS]

00:42:16   this answers one of the questions that I [TS]

00:42:18   had which is would you consider doing [TS]

00:42:19   more videos in this style because this [TS]

00:42:22   animation are my word is so fat [TS]

00:42:26   it's just superb yeah can do does an [TS]

00:42:30   amazing job without a doubt i mean [TS]

00:42:32   that's that's why I like working with [TS]

00:42:33   his depiction of you i love i love it [TS]

00:42:38   you know like just that [TS]

00:42:40   the giving that character more life and [TS]

00:42:46   making it more human [TS]

00:42:48   it's not an easy task to take something [TS]

00:42:50   that is a stick figure and then say how [TS]

00:42:53   are we going to represent this in a more [TS]

00:42:55   fully fleshed-out way while still [TS]

00:42:58   keeping what is recognizable about it [TS]

00:43:00   but he totally succeeded I gave him more [TS]

00:43:02   so than that taking something that is [TS]

00:43:03   iconic in its own way linked into the [TS]

00:43:06   people that are familiar with you and [TS]

00:43:09   like your work the the way that you [TS]

00:43:12   portray your character in the video is a [TS]

00:43:15   massive part of it and he really evolved [TS]

00:43:20   that character who are just excellently [TS]

00:43:25   I i think it's fantastic that like the [TS]

00:43:28   life that he brought to it like one of [TS]

00:43:29   my favorite parts is when you're crying [TS]

00:43:32   on sofa like in the fetal position and [TS]

00:43:36   it's like that is such a great depiction [TS]

00:43:38   yeah I just thought the whole thing was [TS]

00:43:41   was fantastic [TS]

00:43:42   that right there is a great example of [TS]

00:43:44   like okay so people wanted to like a [TS]

00:43:46   white is uses different artwork like why [TS]

00:43:48   didn't you do it yourself in your own [TS]

00:43:49   stick figures for both the star trek [TS]

00:43:52   video and for the domestication video [TS]

00:43:55   they they had the same thing in common [TS]

00:43:57   of man if I was going to sit down and [TS]

00:44:00   actually try to draw out these videos in [TS]

00:44:03   some way there are many parts where one [TS]

00:44:06   I just simply wouldn't have the artistic [TS]

00:44:08   ability to do so and to where both of [TS]

00:44:12   these things just require a level of [TS]

00:44:14   detail that you could not do in stick [TS]

00:44:17   figures right it's it is just simply not [TS]

00:44:20   possible and this is the same reason why [TS]

00:44:23   I went to commute to do the Lord of the [TS]

00:44:25   Rings video because when I was going [TS]

00:44:28   through that when I thought like oh let [TS]

00:44:29   me do with a video about Lord of the [TS]

00:44:31   Rings I want to talk about tents and [TS]

00:44:32   elves and Men and hobbits and all the [TS]

00:44:34   stuff and I realized really quickly like [TS]

00:44:36   you know what you can do this with stick [TS]

00:44:37   figures man like it just there's not [TS]

00:44:40   enough that looks visually different and [TS]

00:44:43   so once again for the star trek one when [TS]

00:44:45   I was thinking about doing this it was [TS]

00:44:48   that it was the same thing all over [TS]

00:44:49   again [TS]

00:44:50   I was originally going to have much more [TS]

00:44:52   of the crew and talk about specific [TS]

00:44:53   examples like that's how it began as [TS]

00:44:56   like I can't draw stick figures that are [TS]

00:44:59   obviously the different captain's like [TS]

00:45:01   that's just not possible to do in my [TS]

00:45:03   usual style so it's like I have to bring [TS]

00:45:06   on someone to to do this and so that's [TS]

00:45:08   that's what are some of the original [TS]

00:45:09   concept artwork was I had commute giving [TS]

00:45:11   me like various characters like how [TS]

00:45:13   would they look what know what are we [TS]

00:45:14   going to have this look like on screen [TS]

00:45:17   because there's no way i can adequately [TS]

00:45:19   with stick figures have to Rikers and [TS]

00:45:22   just as the as the project went on I [TS]

00:45:26   eventually realized like oh I i liked [TS]

00:45:27   this artwork so much that can I came to [TS]

00:45:30   an agreement where he was going to just [TS]

00:45:32   do all of it like we're just going to [TS]

00:45:35   make this one hundred percent your [TS]

00:45:38   artwork up on the screen and I think it [TS]

00:45:40   came out really well if it did I loved [TS]

00:45:43   it like that the the actual topic i'm [TS]

00:45:45   not a star trek guy em but you know I [TS]

00:45:49   understand enough about I've seen the [TS]

00:45:50   movies who but for me it wasn't really [TS]

00:45:54   about the topic [TS]

00:45:56   it just all its design and just the way [TS]

00:45:59   that everything looked it really really [TS]

00:46:01   made it work it really worked in a [TS]

00:46:04   different way to to how your videos [TS]

00:46:06   normally do it was very different very [TS]

00:46:08   refreshing I think and I i really [TS]

00:46:10   enjoyed it i wish that they could be [TS]

00:46:12   more like it but I know how hard it is [TS]

00:46:14   to do you know yeah well i mean this is [TS]

00:46:17   this is one of these things because when [TS]

00:46:19   eventually came to the conclusion of [TS]

00:46:21   like oh I can have someone else do all [TS]

00:46:25   of the artwork instead of trying to [TS]

00:46:26   think of mixing this with my regular [TS]

00:46:28   style and and his drawings it's like [TS]

00:46:30   I'll let me just entirely have someone [TS]

00:46:33   else do this [TS]

00:46:34   my initial thought was like oh well this [TS]

00:46:36   is going to be a huge time-saver isn't [TS]

00:46:38   it like that the NFL is like no it's not [TS]

00:46:40   actually here's time-saver there is the [TS]

00:46:42   potential for it and and the reason that [TS]

00:46:44   I think that is looking up mining your [TS]

00:46:48   working relationship and how that's [TS]

00:46:51   developed because we collaborate on this [TS]

00:46:54   project and overtime arm we've learned [TS]

00:47:00   each of his preferences in the way that [TS]

00:47:03   things should [TS]

00:47:03   done like I think that if you willing to [TS]

00:47:06   put the time and effort into it could be [TS]

00:47:09   possible that somebody could do the work [TS]

00:47:11   for you [TS]

00:47:11   I especially if you know the thing that [TS]

00:47:14   your best and the thing to the longest [TS]

00:47:16   is the writing you know then you could [TS]

00:47:18   focus completely on that and have [TS]

00:47:20   somebody else help you out with the [TS]

00:47:21   artwork so we're thinking about this is [TS]

00:47:24   like okay the way that I was currently [TS]

00:47:26   working was we were going back and forth [TS]

00:47:29   about the art you know he was sending me [TS]

00:47:31   stuff almost all of which was like it's [TS]

00:47:34   amazing do more other we like have a [TS]

00:47:35   back-and-forth about how things should [TS]

00:47:36   be represented and and and the rest of [TS]

00:47:39   this and ultimately in the end what I [TS]

00:47:43   got from Knut was about a hundred [TS]

00:47:46   drawings vector drawings for the various [TS]

00:47:51   scenes but even then the the additional [TS]

00:47:55   thing which takes up a huge amount of [TS]

00:47:57   time is that he is not the animator i am [TS]

00:48:01   still the animator and so even though i [TS]

00:48:03   have these drawings because they're [TS]

00:48:06   vectors each drawing can be broken down [TS]

00:48:09   into the various elements and then I am [TS]

00:48:12   animating the various elements so [TS]

00:48:14   anytime something moves on the screen [TS]

00:48:17   anytime something fades into fades out [TS]

00:48:19   or has a wobbly effect or whatever like [TS]

00:48:21   i am doing all of that and so what I [TS]

00:48:23   have sent you that you can see it will [TS]

00:48:25   be in the show notes for the listeners [TS]

00:48:27   is what the video looks like on my end [TS]

00:48:31   to animate when i'm working within Final [TS]

00:48:33   Cut Pro and so while I start with a [TS]

00:48:38   hundred drawings in the end there are [TS]

00:48:41   probably somewhere between you know [TS]

00:48:43   maybe 200 to 400 animation elements of [TS]

00:48:48   where I'm saying okay this transition [TS]

00:48:50   happens now this special effect comes on [TS]

00:48:52   screen this image transitions into this [TS]

00:48:55   other image this guy moves from point X [TS]

00:48:57   to point B hears a sound effect that is [TS]

00:49:00   going to play underneath what's going on [TS]

00:49:02   the screen so even though all of the [TS]

00:49:04   artwork was done I was shocked by how [TS]

00:49:08   much animation work there was still to [TS]

00:49:11   do [TS]

00:49:11   even after this point so if if I was [TS]

00:49:15   ever to try to complete [TS]

00:49:17   we outsource all of this is like I would [TS]

00:49:19   need an additional person to be the [TS]

00:49:22   animation person like it's it can't just [TS]

00:49:24   be the artwork because it's a bit [TS]

00:49:28   surprising you think like boy a hundred [TS]

00:49:30   images it sounds like a lot but if you [TS]

00:49:32   just have the images on the screen over [TS]

00:49:34   the course of four minutes like it's not [TS]

00:49:35   actually nearly enough action that [TS]

00:49:38   that's taking place like you need to [TS]

00:49:40   have more going on to keep it [TS]

00:49:42   interesting [TS]

00:49:42   hence all of all of the motion or all of [TS]

00:49:45   the transitions are all of the effects a [TS]

00:49:47   little later on in a moment we're going [TS]

00:49:49   to be talking about creativity and [TS]

00:49:51   focuses on pixel which is a movie studio [TS]

00:49:54   and animation studio it's like you would [TS]

00:49:58   need to and it's not impossible to do [TS]

00:50:00   this have like a mini version of that [TS]

00:50:01   right so like you would come up with the [TS]

00:50:04   story you would maybe do some [TS]

00:50:06   storyboards and then have an animate [TS]

00:50:09   have like an artist and animator put [TS]

00:50:12   them together for you [TS]

00:50:14   yeah well well there is a world in which [TS]

00:50:16   that could be the same person as well [TS]

00:50:18   yeah there is a world in which that [TS]

00:50:20   could be the the same person it's the [TS]

00:50:23   thing is always difficult to find people [TS]

00:50:24   talented in one area let alone two areas [TS]

00:50:27   show so I trying to find someone who is [TS]

00:50:29   an amazing illustrator and who also is [TS]

00:50:32   great at doing animation work in Final [TS]

00:50:35   Cut Pro like that's a whole different as [TS]

00:50:37   a whole different thing which is why I [TS]

00:50:39   just like I'm i would say i would be [TS]

00:50:41   looking for someone who is good at [TS]

00:50:43   animating which is a different skill [TS]

00:50:45   yeah but of course I I am never under [TS]

00:50:47   the illusion that like I am somehow like [TS]

00:50:49   a magic person who is doing on [TS]

00:50:52   replicable work like most of the people [TS]

00:50:56   i know are working with teams like it's [TS]

00:50:59   it's interesting and weird that like [TS]

00:51:01   that there are I know very few YouTube [TS]

00:51:04   people who don't have teams around them [TS]

00:51:06   at this point like I am I am one of the [TS]

00:51:08   the very few people i know who is [TS]

00:51:10   genuinely a 1-1 person youtube operation [TS]

00:51:14   at this scale [TS]

00:51:16   yeah who doesn't have employees like [TS]

00:51:18   permanent full-time employees so it is [TS]

00:51:22   an interesting position but it's just as [TS]

00:51:25   with many of these things like I can [TS]

00:51:26   because I had never had [TS]

00:51:29   this much artwork done before i had i [TS]

00:51:34   had falsely assume like oh this is gonna [TS]

00:51:36   be super easy to put together and like [TS]

00:51:38   you know if it's still it is still not [TS]

00:51:42   easy and so like if you wanted to ever [TS]

00:51:44   outsource it like you need one more [TS]

00:51:47   person to to help with this I would bet [TS]

00:51:51   the it still took up less of your time [TS]

00:51:55   in the aggregate but it may be didn't [TS]

00:51:58   feel that way [TS]

00:51:59   the question is did it take less time [TS]

00:52:03   than it takes me to animate an average [TS]

00:52:06   video the answer to that is no like it [TS]

00:52:11   took the same number of days plus the [TS]

00:52:14   back-and-forth with canoed spread out [TS]

00:52:16   over a couple of months like there's no [TS]

00:52:17   there's no way that it took me less time [TS]

00:52:20   but but the real question is if i didn't [TS]

00:52:24   have the artwork done and I attempted to [TS]

00:52:27   do this all on my own [TS]

00:52:29   that would have taken me months and [TS]

00:52:31   months of work so there is a way in [TS]

00:52:33   which this saved me a huge amount of [TS]

00:52:36   time in the in the same way that like [TS]

00:52:38   getting all the stock video for the [TS]

00:52:39   domestication video like if I tried to [TS]

00:52:41   animate that that would have been months [TS]

00:52:44   and months of work instead of four days [TS]

00:52:46   of animating so like I there's a sense [TS]

00:52:49   in which I saved a lot of time [TS]

00:52:50   sure but not like actual number of hours [TS]

00:52:54   out of my working schedule like it's a [TS]

00:52:55   slightly different question you know i [TS]

00:52:57   love your work but it doesn't you [TS]

00:52:59   couldn't have done this now of course [TS]

00:53:01   not you don't have no skill whatsoever [TS]

00:53:02   like you couldn't even closer now you [TS]

00:53:05   wouldn't be able to do it and I'm [TS]

00:53:07   looking at it now [TS]

00:53:08   one week 1.4 million views yeah pretty [TS]

00:53:11   good maybe it was worth it i think like [TS]

00:53:16   that i have to have the right topic in [TS]

00:53:19   mind for this kind of style [TS]

00:53:21   I i don't think i don't think that i [TS]

00:53:25   could just generally say like I'm always [TS]

00:53:27   going to do videos with all of this [TS]

00:53:29   artwork like if I'm ever doing something [TS]

00:53:32   that has anything to do with countries i [TS]

00:53:34   always want to use the country girls [TS]

00:53:36   that I have like I just I love the way [TS]

00:53:38   that looks [TS]

00:53:39   I think that's a real signature style at [TS]

00:53:42   this point like I'm always [TS]

00:53:43   going to want to do anything that has to [TS]

00:53:44   do with countries using those particular [TS]

00:53:46   stick figures come but i can but like [TS]

00:53:50   you can see the commonality between the [TS]

00:53:52   star trek video and the Lord of the [TS]

00:53:53   Rings video is is both of them it's like [TS]

00:53:55   there's more detail than can possibly be [TS]

00:53:58   represented with stick figures and so if [TS]

00:54:02   i come to that situation again if [TS]

00:54:04   there's a topic that I'm working on [TS]

00:54:05   where that feels like if the case i will [TS]

00:54:06   definitely definitely think about doing [TS]

00:54:08   it again sir i miss any I haven't got a [TS]

00:54:13   name for him but I'll miss that little [TS]

00:54:14   cgpgrey maybe he'll come back someday [TS]

00:54:17   sir i would like to also thank a glue [TS]

00:54:20   for helping support this week's episode [TS]

00:54:22   igloo make the internet you'll actually [TS]

00:54:24   like what does that mean well it means [TS]

00:54:26   that you have the tools to create an [TS]

00:54:28   internet that looks and works the way [TS]

00:54:30   you want it looks and works the way that [TS]

00:54:33   you're used to with the way that you're [TS]

00:54:35   used to using the internet rather than [TS]

00:54:37   looking at something which looks like it [TS]

00:54:39   was built in the nineties by somebody [TS]

00:54:40   who obviously couldn't see into the [TS]

00:54:42   future and had no idea how we'd be using [TS]

00:54:43   our computers like for example now we're [TS]

00:54:46   able to do work wherever we want with [TS]

00:54:48   our phones and tablets and laptops equal [TS]

00:54:51   works on all of them [TS]

00:54:52   it has responsive design so it's gonna [TS]

00:54:54   work everywhere you can do everything [TS]

00:54:56   you can manage your task list from your [TS]

00:54:58   iphone you can manage your projects and [TS]

00:55:01   speak to your colleagues from your [TS]

00:55:03   android tablet it doesn't matter what [TS]

00:55:04   device you're using if it can connect to [TS]

00:55:06   the internet you can use igloo talking [TS]

00:55:10   about design you're able to customize it [TS]

00:55:12   give it the look and theme and colors of [TS]

00:55:14   your company so it feels right at home [TS]

00:55:16   in your organization also able to turn [TS]

00:55:19   on and off different pieces of [TS]

00:55:21   functionality for different members of [TS]

00:55:23   your teams so you can give them just the [TS]

00:55:25   tools that they need you can share files [TS]

00:55:27   of your co-workers for you all to [TS]

00:55:29   collaborate on you can track who's read [TS]

00:55:31   documents of read receipts this is super [TS]

00:55:33   useful for making sure that everybody [TS]

00:55:35   has seen an important document that must [TS]

00:55:37   go around the company you can also [TS]

00:55:38   integrate with services that box Google [TS]

00:55:40   Drive and Dropbox so people have access [TS]

00:55:42   to all of their files wherever they need [TS]

00:55:44   them wherever they are [TS]

00:55:45   it was secured of 256 bit encryption [TS]

00:55:47   single sign-on and has active directory [TS]

00:55:49   integration as well so it's going to [TS]

00:55:51   integrate perfectly into your [TS]

00:55:53   organization the best thing about a glue [TS]

00:55:55   is [TS]

00:55:55   you can try it for free with any team up [TS]

00:55:58   to 10 people for as long as you want [TS]

00:56:01   so you can make sure that is right for [TS]

00:56:03   your team in your organization time to [TS]

00:56:05   break away from an internet you hate [TS]

00:56:07   sign up now [TS]

00:56:08   english software.com / cortex thank you [TS]

00:56:11   so much to eat glue for their continued [TS]

00:56:12   support of this show and all of real FM [TS]

00:56:15   alright so the second cortex business [TS]

00:56:19   book club is now in session [TS]

00:56:22   it's time it's time so we read [TS]

00:56:25   creativity inc [TS]

00:56:27   yes you pick this book this time this is [TS]

00:56:29   a book that I've wanted to read for some [TS]

00:56:31   time but never got around to it but then [TS]

00:56:34   when it came to be my turn to pick a [TS]

00:56:36   book after the tragedy of the e-myth [TS]

00:56:41   revisited i decided to go for a book [TS]

00:56:44   that i really enjoyed the thought of I'm [TS]

00:56:47   a big pics off an lu so I was very [TS]

00:56:49   intrigued to to read this so I did [TS]

00:56:52   listen to the audiobook unabridged [TS]

00:56:54   audiobook it was much longer then met [TS]

00:56:58   like twice the size i think but I got [TS]

00:57:01   through it all in like a week and a half [TS]

00:57:03   it's like 12 hours and audio book form [TS]

00:57:06   yeah something like that [TS]

00:57:07   looking through my notes I originally [TS]

00:57:10   read this back in November 2014 [TS]

00:57:15   according to all of my kindle highlights [TS]

00:57:18   back when I was still reading books on [TS]

00:57:20   kindle with their appalling topography [TS]

00:57:22   and so I hadn't read it since then and I [TS]

00:57:25   also I relisten to probably about eighty [TS]

00:57:29   percent of the book this week on [TS]

00:57:31   audiobook and then I sort of skimmed the [TS]

00:57:33   last few chapters as well so i reread it [TS]

00:57:36   recently although you may have some more [TS]

00:57:39   detail towards the end then i do and i [TS]

00:57:42   also have all of my notes from last time [TS]

00:57:45   it's a funny experience to read a book [TS]

00:57:46   like this because I'm listening to an [TS]

00:57:48   audiobook and i think i read it the [TS]

00:57:50   first time right but I'm listening to an [TS]

00:57:52   audiobook now I'll hear the office say [TS]

00:57:54   something like oh that's an excellent [TS]

00:57:56   point so i opened up my kindle app to [TS]

00:57:58   highlight that section and I was like [TS]

00:57:59   all right two years ago me thought the [TS]

00:58:01   same thing and highlighted exactly the [TS]

00:58:03   past the child going to highlight [TS]

00:58:05   it's a funny experience like a look at [TS]

00:58:08   me and passed me agreeing on what is an [TS]

00:58:10   interesting point but also clever me yes [TS]

00:58:12   me recap don't we agree on the [TS]

00:58:15   importance of this passage so small [TS]

00:58:18   yes but so tell me Mike you as this this [TS]

00:58:21   is your first experience with creativity [TS]

00:58:24   inc [TS]

00:58:25   what did you think of the book it wasn't [TS]

00:58:27   completely what I expected then and very [TS]

00:58:30   different to other books that I've read [TS]

00:58:33   like this because it was a lot more [TS]

00:58:35   biographical em at kenmore tells his [TS]

00:58:39   story and through telling his story hits [TS]

00:58:43   upon some other things that have been [TS]

00:58:44   important in helping him build and [TS]

00:58:47   manage and run Pixar and now Disney [TS]

00:58:49   Animation em so it was unexpected but I [TS]

00:58:53   think I enjoyed it more because of that [TS]

00:58:55   I like biographies of people that are [TS]

00:58:58   interesting for people that I respect [TS]

00:59:00   and while side of only known a little [TS]

00:59:03   bit about it kept more from from other [TS]

00:59:05   books mainly apple books because there's [TS]

00:59:08   obviously a big crossover right right I [TS]

00:59:11   respect the company so much that he was [TS]

00:59:14   basically it's kind of like the [TS]

00:59:16   biography of him and pixar together [TS]

00:59:19   yeah without a doubt yeah there's a ton [TS]

00:59:20   of of early pixar stuff in this and also [TS]

00:59:26   like where where there's end cap will [TS]

00:59:28   come from how did he end up to be in [TS]

00:59:30   this situation and also there's a lot of [TS]

00:59:33   steve jobs related stuff in this [TS]

00:59:35   especially the afterward that whole [TS]

00:59:38   section is basically ad cap more telling [TS]

00:59:41   his story of Steve and why the stories [TS]

00:59:45   that have been out and circulated on [TS]

00:59:47   about our the full picture of the man [TS]

00:59:49   whose fascinating parts got nothing to [TS]

00:59:51   do with the creativity part which is why [TS]

00:59:53   it's right at the end it was a good [TS]

00:59:54   place to put it but I could tell like [TS]

00:59:56   from him like I need to tell this story [TS]

00:59:58   because i hate whatever [TS]

00:59:58   because i hate whatever [TS]

01:00:00   I'm saying yeah it was it was a total [TS]

01:00:02   total non sequitur to the rest of the [TS]

01:00:05   book but like this is the most logical [TS]

01:00:07   place to put this this section about [TS]

01:00:08   what is what is his impression of steve [TS]

01:00:11   jobs so in a similar way to how we went [TS]

01:00:15   through the last one I'll kind of go [TS]

01:00:16   through my notes that kind of follows [TS]

01:00:18   the book chronologically even one of my [TS]

01:00:21   favorite things and time back into the [TS]

01:00:23   biographical part is that this book is [TS]

01:00:26   about a man who had a dream who achieved [TS]

01:00:31   it [TS]

01:00:31   mhm right the idea of wanting to make a [TS]

01:00:34   computer animated movie when he started [TS]

01:00:37   out it was impossible that you couldn't [TS]

01:00:39   do it but he wanted to do it and then [TS]

01:00:42   did it and I love those kind of stories [TS]

01:00:45   because i think that there is something [TS]

01:00:48   nice in knowing that people achieve [TS]

01:00:50   their dreams if with the right amount of [TS]

01:00:52   work and effort i think that is a good [TS]

01:00:55   story I think it's possible you know I [TS]

01:00:58   think that mean you've both done that to [TS]

01:01:00   certain degrees i expect quite a lot of [TS]

01:01:03   people listen to the show how people [TS]

01:01:05   that have creative work at usually tends [TS]

01:01:06   to be part of a dream or a long-term [TS]

01:01:09   goal and I also as you know probably [TS]

01:01:11   quite a lot of people listen to show [TS]

01:01:13   that have one they're trying to achieve [TS]

01:01:14   so I think it's always good to hear [TS]

01:01:17   these stories of people that have [TS]

01:01:18   something that they want to do and then [TS]

01:01:21   go out and do it [TS]

01:01:23   so this is a good one for that as well [TS]

01:01:25   as a lot of the lessons that that tries [TS]

01:01:28   to teach ya i can agree with that and [TS]

01:01:31   this is this is a time to just interject [TS]

01:01:35   in a sense a lot of people after our [TS]

01:01:38   last book club episode wanted to know [TS]

01:01:42   like why the hell i would read a book [TS]

01:01:43   like that like the e-myth revisited and [TS]

01:01:45   why would read these business books even [TS]

01:01:47   though people often hear that i don't [TS]

01:01:49   have always great things to say about [TS]

01:01:50   them but I i think this falls into the [TS]

01:01:53   category of like when you are reading [TS]

01:01:55   you are shaping your own mind and you [TS]

01:02:01   are shaping like the kind of person that [TS]

01:02:03   you can possibly be and this falls into [TS]

01:02:06   the category of like if you want to do [TS]

01:02:09   something different it is useful to read [TS]

01:02:12   out people who have done things [TS]

01:02:14   differently or wet like whether or not [TS]

01:02:16   the particulars of their situation [TS]

01:02:18   exactly matters for your situation is [TS]

01:02:20   not relevant [TS]

01:02:22   it's it's a case of like showing your [TS]

01:02:24   brain like oh ok here's the story of [TS]

01:02:27   this person and how he went to achieve [TS]

01:02:30   an unusual thing and like here here is [TS]

01:02:33   the way he did this and look brain like [TS]

01:02:36   this is the thing to think about like [TS]

01:02:37   I'm going to keep exposing you to this [TS]

01:02:39   idea over and over again like people can [TS]

01:02:43   achieve things and they can they can [TS]

01:02:44   reach their goals and like here's how [TS]

01:02:46   here's how this person has done it [TS]

01:02:47   here's how maybe that person has done it [TS]

01:02:49   and you brain like pick from that what [TS]

01:02:52   you think is useful but just be aware [TS]

01:02:55   that like it's on it's almost like you [TS]

01:02:58   want to create for your own single brain [TS]

01:03:00   like a culture of success right like [TS]

01:03:02   think things can happen well brain and [TS]

01:03:04   just be aware of that and that's why I [TS]

01:03:06   think these things are useful to read [TS]

01:03:09   and why I've been reading them for you [TS]

01:03:11   know many years at this stage camel [TS]

01:03:13   himself is also pretty critical of [TS]

01:03:15   business books which I like and and [TS]

01:03:17   multiple points in the the the book [TS]

01:03:21   talks about why a lot of these types of [TS]

01:03:24   books a pointless right i really like it [TS]

01:03:27   just addresses it and he's like look a [TS]

01:03:30   lot of these things don't really help [TS]

01:03:32   people they're full of empty lessons and [TS]

01:03:35   like even at the end he kind of distills [TS]

01:03:38   a lot of things that he believes in two [TS]

01:03:40   simple sentences and he's like these are [TS]

01:03:42   statements that are true they are what i [TS]

01:03:46   think of as talking points and places to [TS]

01:03:49   go from so let's look at all of these [TS]

01:03:51   lessons these takeaways they will be [TS]

01:03:53   caught in other types of books has food [TS]

01:03:58   for thought rather than just like [TS]

01:04:00   lessons i'm trying to teach you and I [TS]

01:04:03   quite like that approach i agree that [TS]

01:04:06   that perhaps one of the values of this [TS]

01:04:10   is not so much him telling you here's [TS]

01:04:14   the way to do it as opposed to him [TS]

01:04:16   describing lots of the other people he [TS]

01:04:20   works with and how they think about [TS]

01:04:22   things [TS]

01:04:22   x and it's it's a bit of a like when you [TS]

01:04:25   are reading it he just like throwing a [TS]

01:04:27   whole bunch of stuff at your brain and [TS]

01:04:29   maybe some of it will stick and some of [TS]

01:04:30   it won't but you know he talks about [TS]

01:04:32   like oh here's how is how Brad Bird [TS]

01:04:34   things about making a movie like this is [TS]

01:04:36   not how I think about making a movie I [TS]

01:04:38   think brad bird is wrong but he made the [TS]

01:04:40   incredibles right so like you take from [TS]

01:04:42   that what you want and then it goes to a [TS]

01:04:44   bunch of the other directors and talks [TS]

01:04:45   about like here's how this person thinks [TS]

01:04:47   about it here's how that person thinks [TS]

01:04:48   about it and you know it's like some of [TS]

01:04:51   them think about like they're on an [TS]

01:04:52   archaeological expedition and they're [TS]

01:04:54   uncovering things and others imagine it [TS]

01:04:56   as though they are building a structure [TS]

01:04:58   brick by brick and he's just he's just [TS]

01:05:00   going through how other creative people [TS]

01:05:03   he works with think about their own work [TS]

01:05:06   and like maybe some of that will [TS]

01:05:07   resonate with you and maybe some of it [TS]

01:05:09   won't but the book is not super [TS]

01:05:12   prescriptive it's he doesn't have like a [TS]

01:05:16   one-two-three punch for here's here's [TS]

01:05:19   exactly what you need to do that I've [TS]

01:05:25   kind of recorded in that vein few of [TS]

01:05:28   things that spoke to me of what he had [TS]

01:05:31   instituted pics rm1 of the clear themes [TS]

01:05:35   that runs through this book is the idea [TS]

01:05:38   of giving creative people autonomy to [TS]

01:05:40   create who like provide them with the [TS]

01:05:42   resources that they need [TS]

01:05:44   don't try and box them in and let them [TS]

01:05:46   see what they can do and that's such an [TS]

01:05:49   interesting thing to me a lot of what [TS]

01:05:50   I'm going to be basing my thoughts on is [TS]

01:05:52   the companies that I've worked in and [TS]

01:05:55   how different they are to the way that [TS]

01:05:58   capital describes how he builds his [TS]

01:06:00   company and the idea of kind of like it [TS]

01:06:03   a lot of this they could give people [TS]

01:06:05   challenges see how they do with them you [TS]

01:06:07   know he talks about hiring good teams [TS]

01:06:12   and giving them good work and you will [TS]

01:06:14   get great stuff rather than hiring like [TS]

01:06:16   mediocre people and giving them it [TS]

01:06:18   thinks the work on you like you just not [TS]

01:06:19   going to get the results out of them and [TS]

01:06:21   and this is the lot of give people the [TS]

01:06:24   autonomy that they need to allow the [TS]

01:06:26   brains to work and come up with [TS]

01:06:28   something interesting [TS]

01:06:30   so I guess is right this is where I have [TS]

01:06:33   to ask you as the company man of the of [TS]

01:06:36   the podcast yeah [TS]

01:06:37   this strikes you as different from the [TS]

01:06:40   places that you're familiar with oh yeah [TS]

01:06:42   yeah okay is it because like this is up [TS]

01:06:45   my reading of the book i was much less [TS]

01:06:47   charitable toward than the first time I [TS]

01:06:49   read it again and this was one of the [TS]

01:06:51   the the places where I kept thinking [TS]

01:06:53   like ya da like but it's not like that [TS]

01:06:57   he had like it's hard to find creative [TS]

01:06:59   people and when you find good creative [TS]

01:07:01   people let them do what they want to do [TS]

01:07:04   it like like there were plenty of times [TS]

01:07:06   when working with Knut whereas like I [TS]

01:07:08   don't have specific instructions for you [TS]

01:07:10   but like you just keep going like the [TS]

01:07:11   whole reason i'm working with you is [TS]

01:07:13   because you are talented like that's [TS]

01:07:15   that's why we're here together right and [TS]

01:07:16   like I trust you to do stuff so go like [TS]

01:07:20   just just run with it man [TS]

01:07:22   and so the other like when i was reading [TS]

01:07:23   this I was feeling a bit like yeah of [TS]

01:07:25   course a camera like what else would it [TS]

01:07:27   be but it sounds like you know what else [TS]

01:07:30   it would be so i was working in [TS]

01:07:32   marketing right for the company that I [TS]

01:07:34   worked for so I had a semi kind of [TS]

01:07:38   creative role that we would help come up [TS]

01:07:40   with the marketing campaigns along with [TS]

01:07:43   external agencies that we hired that [TS]

01:07:46   that totally counts as creative ya get [TS]

01:07:48   any role in marketing counts as a [TS]

01:07:50   creative field sure but I get very [TS]

01:07:52   different what we want coming up with [TS]

01:07:54   the campaign's we weren't like an [TS]

01:07:55   internal agency or anything like them we [TS]

01:07:57   would have agencies that will help us [TS]

01:07:59   so you wouldn't like two levels of [TS]

01:08:01   creativity here and there was a time [TS]

01:08:04   where as i was leaving my company that [TS]

01:08:08   another team somewhere had decided to 15 [TS]

01:08:12   images that could be used in all [TS]

01:08:14   marketing campaigns for the next six [TS]

01:08:16   months like 15 stock images [TS]

01:08:19   yeah and they said it may expand but [TS]

01:08:22   this is like the set that you've got [TS]

01:08:24   right now and you are asking two levels [TS]

01:08:27   of creative people to work within this [TS]

01:08:30   constraint that sounds pretty terrible [TS]

01:08:32   yeah and I know people that work in our [TS]

01:08:33   advertising agencies and this is a [TS]

01:08:35   relatively similar thing that maybe like [TS]

01:08:37   a so it might be the like the me and i [TS]

01:08:40   know that i did this into our agencies i [TS]

01:08:42   was like i gave them very prescriptive [TS]

01:08:44   of guidelines of what i was looking for [TS]

01:08:46   with some campaigns so even i would put [TS]

01:08:49   a restriction on those great people [TS]

01:08:51   mainly because I was being restricted in [TS]

01:08:53   some way right its restrictions all the [TS]

01:08:56   way down exactly and so this is what I'm [TS]

01:08:59   you know there are places where they [TS]

01:09:01   will not be the case but i know this is [TS]

01:09:03   the case in a lot of areas it is for big [TS]

01:09:05   company it is very rare for them to just [TS]

01:09:08   do that you see it when he goes to [TS]

01:09:10   disney later right [TS]

01:09:12   yeah talks about how people that have [TS]

01:09:15   never made movies gave mandatory notes [TS]

01:09:18   and changes to the movies that they [TS]

01:09:20   would see the other executives yeah that [TS]

01:09:23   is terrible it is true you know so it's [TS]

01:09:25   like it that shocked them one thing went [TS]

01:09:27   in there of course it did because he [TS]

01:09:28   thinks in a way which is not more there [TS]

01:09:30   were many times in this book where I had [TS]

01:09:32   to check myself because I Here Come will [TS]

01:09:35   say something like he's lying [TS]

01:09:36   there's no way they do that see that see [TS]

01:09:39   that's very interesting it that's very [TS]

01:09:41   interesting to hear you say that and I [TS]

01:09:46   feel like I almost have to defer to your [TS]

01:09:48   your opinion here looks like I need your [TS]

01:09:51   opinion to supplant mine on this one [TS]

01:09:53   right because there were so many times [TS]

01:09:54   where i was reading this and I just [TS]

01:09:56   because of my experience in the last few [TS]

01:09:59   years and the people that I work with [TS]

01:10:01   and like how I know other people run [TS]

01:10:02   their team's I feel like isn't it [TS]

01:10:04   obvious that if you have someone who is [TS]

01:10:05   a creative person like you you let them [TS]

01:10:08   run with stuff like who doesn't do that [TS]

01:10:10   like what like oh wow I've got more like [TS]

01:10:12   telling me the sky is blue but but it's [TS]

01:10:15   that seems like i am in the wrong year [TS]

01:10:16   and that i have a perspective which is [TS]

01:10:19   like a tiny tiny minority of people [TS]

01:10:22   working in creative fields out in the [TS]

01:10:24   corporate world that this that PU you [TS]

01:10:28   are coming from the decide where you [TS]

01:10:29   think this is so unusual that you assume [TS]

01:10:32   that the author must be lying because no [TS]

01:10:34   one would run their business that way [TS]

01:10:35   and I'm like duh man that anything is a [TS]

01:10:39   view of mine which is obviously not the [TS]

01:10:41   same for everyone but I just know that I [TS]

01:10:44   went through this and I know other [TS]

01:10:45   people that did like I worked with [TS]

01:10:47   people who worked for other companies [TS]

01:10:48   and it was the same and the i think part [TS]

01:10:51   of the problem is there's always someone [TS]

01:10:53   who thinks or does know better [TS]

01:10:57   that's part of the problem right so it's [TS]

01:10:59   like you're being told by someone this [TS]

01:11:00   is how the campaign goes you know it's [TS]

01:11:02   like I would consider myself as a [TS]

01:11:04   creative and I would show the work to a [TS]

01:11:08   product manager and then they would try [TS]

01:11:09   and make changes to it and i would have [TS]

01:11:11   to say that and no this is not what you [TS]

01:11:13   do i was very difficult to work with and [TS]

01:11:18   that but that's that's why you're here [TS]

01:11:20   right now my boss really liked it and [TS]

01:11:24   and it was always something that she [TS]

01:11:25   brought to me to be like you stand up [TS]

01:11:27   for yourself in a way that nobody else [TS]

01:11:29   does [TS]

01:11:30   just because I'm very minutes knows i'm [TS]

01:11:32   just very principled if I believe in [TS]

01:11:34   something it can be quite difficult to [TS]

01:11:35   change my mind on it my mind can be [TS]

01:11:37   changed but if I truly believe in [TS]

01:11:40   something I will fight for and not a lot [TS]

01:11:42   of people that were in my scenario did [TS]

01:11:43   that is because I believed that what I [TS]

01:11:46   was doing was creative work like I [TS]

01:11:48   believe that that it shouldn't have just [TS]

01:11:50   been prescriptive one of the reasons i [TS]

01:11:53   left when i did because of the [TS]

01:11:54   constrictions that were being put on [TS]

01:11:57   people you know I why mention about like [TS]

01:12:00   the very limited images that could be [TS]

01:12:01   used right was like no I can't I can't [TS]

01:12:03   do this [TS]

01:12:04   this is lucas but also like it's [TS]

01:12:06   interesting to hear about freedom that [TS]

01:12:10   they have a Pixar and it seems like even [TS]

01:12:13   in the animation world that is not a [TS]

01:12:15   given that you get that I was just [TS]

01:12:17   looking through my notes I think this is [TS]

01:12:18   a section i highlighted here which I [TS]

01:12:20   think summarizes a lot of his his points [TS]

01:12:23   but he's talking about like changes that [TS]

01:12:26   we made within Pixar and and basically [TS]

01:12:29   he says here going forward the [TS]

01:12:32   department's charter would be not to [TS]

01:12:34   develop scripts but to hire good people [TS]

01:12:37   to figure out what they needed to sign [TS]

01:12:39   into projects and make sure they [TS]

01:12:41   functioned well together [TS]

01:12:43   I says we keep adjusting and fiddling [TS]

01:12:45   with this model but the underlying gold [TS]

01:12:47   today remains the same find develop and [TS]

01:12:50   support good people and they in turn [TS]

01:12:53   will find develop and own good ideas [TS]

01:12:58   this actually goes right back to what we [TS]

01:13:00   were just talking about if you bringing [TS]

01:13:02   in people like canoe like he is talented [TS]

01:13:05   and is good at what he does [TS]

01:13:09   so you find people like [TS]

01:13:11   that and give them the work to do and [TS]

01:13:12   see what they come up with [TS]

01:13:14   yeah but it's also like it's again this [TS]

01:13:17   this to me is where I feel like my own [TS]

01:13:19   opinion of the book is maybe not super [TS]

01:13:21   relevant here but in my own field it [TS]

01:13:22   seems like the kids because this this [TS]

01:13:24   highlighted section that i have here [TS]

01:13:26   comes after a long discussion about what [TS]

01:13:28   matters like it's a good people there is [TS]

01:13:30   a good ideas and he has a big [TS]

01:13:33   description where he talked about like [TS]

01:13:35   bringing this up in meetings and people [TS]

01:13:36   are really split and that's the part [TS]

01:13:38   where I felt like oh come on and cattle [TS]

01:13:40   like people can't really be split over [TS]

01:13:42   that like it's obvious that the people [TS]

01:13:44   matter more than the ideas like know how [TS]

01:13:46   you know one agrees yeah but the thing [TS]

01:13:49   is like I I do recognize that i have [TS]

01:13:53   some kind of bias on this but and and if [TS]

01:13:57   I think about it I realized like perhaps [TS]

01:13:59   the kind of compliment that I like the [TS]

01:14:02   most on videos is when I see people [TS]

01:14:04   leave comments where they'll say [TS]

01:14:05   something like I would have expected [TS]

01:14:08   that this topic is really boring or I [TS]

01:14:10   thought that this would be really [TS]

01:14:11   uninteresting but I like I really liked [TS]

01:14:13   the video on this thing and I think [TS]

01:14:15   maybe that's that's partly why I have [TS]

01:14:18   this clear feeling of like it's not the [TS]

01:14:20   topic that matters like I know lots of [TS]

01:14:23   people who make videos on topics that [TS]

01:14:25   you would think are boring but the way [TS]

01:14:29   they make it is the thing that makes it [TS]

01:14:31   interesting so it seems really obvious [TS]

01:14:32   to me like of course people matter but [TS]

01:14:35   then again if I think about it more I [TS]

01:14:37   realize like all day long people want to [TS]

01:14:40   pitch me on good ideas for videos to do [TS]

01:14:45   and it feels like i know but is not the [TS]

01:14:46   idea that matters like if the execution [TS]

01:14:48   that matters so I wonder if this book [TS]

01:14:51   made a real big impact on you the first [TS]

01:14:54   time you read it because you have [TS]

01:14:57   basically said that to me at one point [TS]

01:15:00   like my kind of thinking about talented [TS]

01:15:03   people came from a conversation you had [TS]

01:15:06   maybe about six or so months ago we were [TS]

01:15:09   talking about this about the idea of [TS]

01:15:11   finding talented people and how [TS]

01:15:13   difficult that can be and how useful it [TS]

01:15:14   is the only said like the book made a [TS]

01:15:16   bigger impact on you the first time than [TS]

01:15:19   it did this time I wonder if like part [TS]

01:15:21   of this stuff has been embedded into you [TS]

01:15:23   and now you think it's obvious because [TS]

01:15:24   you already read it well I'll tell you i [TS]

01:15:28   mean here's the thing here's the thing [TS]

01:15:29   for the listeners which is the short [TS]

01:15:31   version of my thesis here that i have [TS]

01:15:33   let's say i have discussed with many [TS]

01:15:36   people in many different circumstances [TS]

01:15:38   is that I i am always trying to beat the [TS]

01:15:41   drum of talent is rarer than people [TS]

01:15:45   think it is and that i often i often run [TS]

01:15:49   up against people have some expectation [TS]

01:15:52   that like there is talent just [TS]

01:15:53   everywhere waiting to be found and i [TS]

01:15:55   don't i do not think that is the case [TS]

01:15:57   but that is a nose small part like I am [TS]

01:16:00   totally aware that that idea was first [TS]

01:16:03   dramatically and unwelcome Lee [TS]

01:16:07   introduced into my brain through my [TS]

01:16:09   years of teaching [TS]

01:16:10   ah like some kids you know what ya [TS]

01:16:18   little Tommy's never going to be an [TS]

01:16:21   astronaut or Tommy this is a battle that [TS]

01:16:25   originally came out of my teaching days [TS]

01:16:26   of much against my own beliefs going [TS]

01:16:30   into things like I was forced to come to [TS]

01:16:32   the conclusion that like you know not [TS]

01:16:35   everybody's a winner [TS]

01:16:37   I like it's just this is not the way [TS]

01:16:39   things are going to work and that has [TS]

01:16:40   been since extended into like the [TS]

01:16:42   entertainment field as we have discussed [TS]

01:16:44   on previous podcast is a bit of a weird [TS]

01:16:48   special case and it's like even thinking [TS]

01:16:51   like reading about the early pixar stuff [TS]

01:16:54   is very interesting but I was also just [TS]

01:16:56   so aware of like yeah but you just [TS]

01:16:58   totally lucked out with your first three [TS]

01:17:01   directors like Pixar had great people [TS]

01:17:05   working on those first three movies and [TS]

01:17:08   if they didn't have unusually successful [TS]

01:17:11   people working on those first few movies [TS]

01:17:14   we wouldn't be talking about picsart [TS]

01:17:16   yeah okay so yeah they did but these [TS]

01:17:21   want traditional movie directors like [TS]

01:17:23   they were developed by pixar discovered [TS]

01:17:27   by pixar given a chance by I think it's [TS]

01:17:30   completely luck [TS]

01:17:32   well it's interesting because there's [TS]

01:17:33   one part in the book where and camel [TS]

01:17:35   addresses this exact thing where their [TS]

01:17:37   first three directors [TS]

01:17:38   we're not traditional directors that [TS]

01:17:41   people that said was working with and [TS]

01:17:44   that when they started bringing on more [TS]

01:17:46   directors like he ran into this same [TS]

01:17:48   thing of like I'm sure we can just like [TS]

01:17:50   turn people into directors a little part [TS]

01:17:52   of me is like actually you can we try to [TS]

01:17:55   add it was when he talks about the whole [TS]

01:17:56   part of like trying to set up a separate [TS]

01:17:58   part of pics alright let that's working [TS]

01:18:01   on what movie were they working on toy [TS]

01:18:03   story 2 i think it was i don't remember [TS]

01:18:05   what it was but but there's a few parts [TS]

01:18:07   where and just like you're trying to [TS]

01:18:09   read between the lines a little bit [TS]

01:18:12   because and camel is is you know he's [TS]

01:18:14   he's very nice talking about everybody [TS]

01:18:16   but you definitely get the feeling that [TS]

01:18:17   like after their first three directors [TS]

01:18:19   they spent a little while I kind of [TS]

01:18:22   floundering trying to bring the next [TS]

01:18:24   people on it and notice the point where [TS]

01:18:25   he doesn't name someone when he doesn't [TS]

01:18:28   give a name is about to slam them [TS]

01:18:30   doesn't he doesn't slam them but it's [TS]

01:18:33   it's just like how interesting you are [TS]

01:18:36   on mentioned brave director like it's [TS]

01:18:39   just like who are you know there's a few [TS]

01:18:42   points like that and and so I guess what [TS]

01:18:45   I'm just what I'm just saying here is [TS]

01:18:47   like Pixar is also in an interesting [TS]

01:18:49   situation where by definition they had [TS]

01:18:52   to be really lucky at the start I like [TS]

01:18:54   that then that is almost true of any [TS]

01:18:56   entertainment venture like you have to [TS]

01:18:59   be lucky at the start and I think that [TS]

01:19:02   like the interesting fundamental [TS]

01:19:03   question of creativity inc like almost [TS]

01:19:06   like the thesis of the book is very [TS]

01:19:09   clearly like can pixar survive the [TS]

01:19:14   replacement of its founding members [TS]

01:19:17   right like those original people who [TS]

01:19:19   were on board [TS]

01:19:20   can they engineer a system that will [TS]

01:19:23   outlast them i think i think that is the [TS]

01:19:26   heart of the book you know I think it's [TS]

01:19:30   an open question about whether or not [TS]

01:19:32   they have like reading through it the [TS]

01:19:34   second time I've I felt very much almost [TS]

01:19:37   like less convinced that they have [TS]

01:19:41   accomplished that then the first time [TS]

01:19:43   reading through the book like I think [TS]

01:19:46   they've given it the best of all [TS]

01:19:47   possible shots but they also still [TS]

01:19:50   haven't had [TS]

01:19:51   a complete turnover of the original [TS]

01:19:54   people working there and i was i was [TS]

01:19:56   looking through some of their upcoming [TS]

01:19:57   projects and it's like oh interesting [TS]

01:19:58   you're bringing back Brad Bird to work [TS]

01:20:01   on Incredibles 2 in future and I was [TS]

01:20:04   like we won't know the answer to this [TS]

01:20:07   question of will pixar outlast the [TS]

01:20:10   original team or will it like Disney did [TS]

01:20:14   go through like a half-century of [TS]

01:20:16   wandering in the wilderness after their [TS]

01:20:18   initial founder was was lost one of fine [TS]

01:20:22   things right now is that Disney is [TS]

01:20:25   producing better movies and pics are in [TS]

01:20:29   some places i think that is also the [TS]

01:20:31   interesting context of reading this book [TS]

01:20:33   two years later than when I first read [TS]

01:20:35   it [TS]

01:20:35   yeah what was something that really [TS]

01:20:37   annoys me in the book as they keep [TS]

01:20:38   talking about failure like we need to [TS]

01:20:40   have a fairly we need to have a failure [TS]

01:20:42   but they don't address that like cause [TS]

01:20:45   to yeah that is a failure but they don't [TS]

01:20:48   he doesn't talk about it [TS]

01:20:49   cars 2 is the huge elephant in the room [TS]

01:20:52   of this book right there is because that [TS]

01:20:55   movie was out and had flopped i did a [TS]

01:20:58   search of the text of like did he [TS]

01:21:01   mention it anywhere it like nope there [TS]

01:21:03   he doesn't know reference to cars to ms [TS]

01:21:05   it's really interesting because it [TS]

01:21:06   throughout the whole book they're [TS]

01:21:08   talking about like we haven't had a [TS]

01:21:10   failure what will happen when we have a [TS]

01:21:12   failure like people was scared because [TS]

01:21:15   they don't want to be the one [TS]

01:21:16   responsible for the first failure and I [TS]

01:21:18   really wanted to hear the story of what [TS]

01:21:21   happened after cause to butt in [TS]

01:21:23   it just doesn't get addressed yeah I [TS]

01:21:25   remember the first time i was reading [TS]

01:21:27   the book I felt like this has to come up [TS]

01:21:29   and it doesn't [TS]

01:21:31   mhm and that's it that to me is like one [TS]

01:21:36   of that one of the little pieces of like [TS]

01:21:38   I feel like they're like your you have [TS]

01:21:41   this big section where you're talking [TS]

01:21:43   about candor and making sure everybody [TS]

01:21:45   is really open about what happens and [TS]

01:21:47   there's there's no shame in anything and [TS]

01:21:49   yes worrying about failures and like [TS]

01:21:51   you've gotta tie this together with cars [TS]

01:21:55   to like but he never does right it just [TS]

01:21:58   never got feel that is like the direct [TS]

01:22:00   result of nice guy head [TS]

01:22:02   yeah he doesn't want to throw the cause [TS]

01:22:04   team on the bus in the book [TS]

01:22:06   yeah and and the the other thing which [TS]

01:22:07   is I i think this is more this is more [TS]

01:22:10   subjective [TS]

01:22:11   it's ok so here here's here's the [TS]

01:22:13   running list for the movies so I made a [TS]

01:22:16   note of it in the beginning so this book [TS]

01:22:18   came out after pixar had made 14 movies [TS]

01:22:22   so here we go right it's 1995 is where [TS]

01:22:26   they start so it's toy story a bug's [TS]

01:22:28   life toy story 2 monsters inc finding [TS]

01:22:30   nemo the incredibles then you have cars [TS]

01:22:34   at number seven in 2006 which is like [TS]

01:22:36   maybe a little shaky maybe not I don't [TS]

01:22:38   know then you have read a tui Wally then [TS]

01:22:42   it's up in 2009 toys story three cars 22 [TS]

01:22:48   years before this book brave one year [TS]

01:22:51   before this book and monsters university [TS]

01:22:53   is the last movie that comes out before [TS]

01:22:56   the book is published i gotta say like I [TS]

01:22:58   think the second half of that list is [TS]

01:23:00   weaker than the first half of that list [TS]

01:23:02   monsters university i really like that [TS]

01:23:04   one I have to say I really liked [TS]

01:23:07   monsters University precisely to look at [TS]

01:23:10   this we're gonna tie it back before [TS]

01:23:11   because the fundamental message of [TS]

01:23:13   monsters university is you can't always [TS]

01:23:14   be what you want to be like sorry [TS]

01:23:16   Michael kowski you were born not scary [TS]

01:23:18   but you gotta figure something else out [TS]

01:23:20   no amount of studying is going to make [TS]

01:23:22   you scary Mike you know it's like you [TS]

01:23:24   have the Dean is portrayed as the [TS]

01:23:26   villain but she's not wrong like you're [TS]

01:23:28   not scary and I have to say like I think [TS]

01:23:31   that is quite a bold stance for a movie [TS]

01:23:33   to take as like the fundamental [TS]

01:23:35   storyline of like now you're not going [TS]

01:23:37   to achieve your dream yes I think it's a [TS]

01:23:38   good message because it's like all right [TS]

01:23:40   you but there is something that you [TS]

01:23:42   could be really good at you just need to [TS]

01:23:43   find it accept this and move on [TS]

01:23:46   yeah like I went through my own version [TS]

01:23:48   of this when I was younger was like for [TS]

01:23:49   a long time I want [TS]

01:23:51   it to be a fiction writer like I wanted [TS]

01:23:52   to write novels and I spent a lot of [TS]

01:23:56   time trying to write novels and at one [TS]

01:23:59   point I had to just grow up and be like [TS]

01:24:01   you know what man you write some really [TS]

01:24:03   good fiction like you just have to [TS]

01:24:05   understand this and move on [TS]

01:24:07   I don't even want to know how many [TS]

01:24:08   thousands of words like I attempted to [TS]

01:24:10   put out but it's like but it's an [TS]

01:24:11   important moment right to recognize that [TS]

01:24:14   like you're just you could spend from [TS]

01:24:16   now until the end of your life trying to [TS]

01:24:18   write a novel and you will never succeed [TS]

01:24:21   so like recognize it and move on so I'd [TS]

01:24:24   like I i like that monsters university I [TS]

01:24:26   think it's a rare movie that kind of [TS]

01:24:27   goes against that goes against the grain [TS]

01:24:29   but it is but so the question about like [TS]

01:24:33   Pixar as an entity that can survive in [TS]

01:24:37   the indefinite future producing great [TS]

01:24:39   movies now that the thing that we have [TS]

01:24:42   to mention is even though i think the [TS]

01:24:44   second half of that list is weaker than [TS]

01:24:46   the first half of that list [TS]

01:24:47   nonetheless like the average batting for [TS]

01:24:51   his Pixar is great like that like a [TS]

01:24:53   mediocre Pixar movie is better than most [TS]

01:24:56   movies that are made and the hottest [TS]

01:24:58   animation just get flat yeah just [TS]

01:25:00   flat-out just flat-out movies but yeah [TS]

01:25:04   it's just like I'm i was really i really [TS]

01:25:07   felt a lot less convinced by EDD [TS]

01:25:10   capitals own story about pics are like [TS]

01:25:16   two years on then I was the first time I [TS]

01:25:19   read it and and partly that's because [TS]

01:25:21   it's like okay I haven't seen it yet but [TS]

01:25:24   they put out the good dinosaur which [TS]

01:25:25   didn't really get great reviews and then [TS]

01:25:28   looking at their future movies it's like [TS]

01:25:30   okay for the next five movies you have [TS]

01:25:34   planned four of them are sequels I think [TS]

01:25:39   part of this though is that there has [TS]

01:25:40   been a problem with some of the secrets [TS]

01:25:42   because like he talks about like three [TS]

01:25:44   movies every two years [TS]

01:25:46   one of them is equal to new properties [TS]

01:25:48   right they haven't put out a sequel in [TS]

01:25:50   awhile but they've had a bunch of new [TS]

01:25:52   ones so I feel like there's been some [TS]

01:25:53   production bottlenecks with the sequel's [TS]

01:25:55   yeah maybe because they had like what [TS]

01:25:58   brave inside out the good dinosaur right [TS]

01:26:03   so those are all those are all [TS]

01:26:04   new yeah and then it's going to be [TS]

01:26:07   finding Dory is next [TS]

01:26:09   cars three coco which is there is one [TS]

01:26:15   cause three cars three they're making a [TS]

01:26:18   cause [TS]

01:26:19   three of three fingers with cars though [TS]

01:26:22   it is a monster much and dice ella ella [TS]

01:26:26   i'm sure it is and that but that's also [TS]

01:26:29   where and it's the same thing with like [TS]

01:26:32   monster that monsters inc like I'm sure [TS]

01:26:34   it's a that's a pretty good merchandise [TS]

01:26:35   one as well and actually like when he's [TS]

01:26:39   talking about we don't think about the [TS]

01:26:40   merchandise is like okay but like Here I [TS]

01:26:43   am this does yeah like sitting here in [TS]

01:26:46   2016 and knowing that you're going to [TS]

01:26:49   produce cars 3 and it's like I mean his [TS]

01:26:53   here's the thing i want to make it [TS]

01:26:54   really clear like there's nothing wrong [TS]

01:26:55   with a movie studio making money off of [TS]

01:26:58   merchandising like i don't i don't have [TS]

01:27:00   a problem with that but it's a different [TS]

01:27:02   thing when i'm reading a book about how [TS]

01:27:05   great Pixar is and how Pixar is [TS]

01:27:07   different and how I think quite rightly [TS]

01:27:09   what one of the things that makes them [TS]

01:27:12   different is not putting an emphasis on [TS]

01:27:14   this stuff but now knowing that it feels [TS]

01:27:17   like we're in the place with cars 3 and [TS]

01:27:19   toy story 4 that the merchandise in [TS]

01:27:22   really does matter [TS]

01:27:23   I don't think toy story is a good [TS]

01:27:24   example because there hasn't been a bad [TS]

01:27:27   one and i will take a number one toy [TS]

01:27:29   story 3 is arguably the best toy story [TS]

01:27:32   movie you know like Ida I get it would [TS]

01:27:35   cause I just think the Toy Story one is [TS]

01:27:38   just like everybody just wants more toy [TS]

01:27:40   story [TS]

01:27:40   yeah i mean and now this is this is of [TS]

01:27:42   course always a problem with movies that [TS]

01:27:43   you start getting into like the realm of [TS]

01:27:44   the realm of subjectivity yeah I'm sorry [TS]

01:27:47   25 right there getting that we'll just [TS]

01:27:50   we'll it'll be there eventually like [TS]

01:27:51   jaws but so i guess like just bringing [TS]

01:27:54   bringing it back i think the book is is [TS]

01:27:58   interesting but I'm not sold on the [TS]

01:28:05   second reading that they have actually [TS]

01:28:07   solve the problem that they have aim to [TS]

01:28:10   solve yet one of the things that I [TS]

01:28:13   struggle with in this book is the idea [TS]

01:28:15   of kin [TS]

01:28:16   so basically we mentioned it already but [TS]

01:28:20   if you know if you haven't read the book [TS]

01:28:21   one of the tenants that they believe in [TS]

01:28:24   is is people being honest to each other [TS]

01:28:27   and being able to be honest about [TS]

01:28:28   ramification know this is in feedback [TS]

01:28:31   you know and they they enable that like [TS]

01:28:33   they continue to enable that we like [TS]

01:28:34   anybody can talk to anyone you don't [TS]

01:28:36   have to go for a change of command and [TS]

01:28:38   they call it candor because truth and [TS]

01:28:41   honesty and they're too harsh words I [TS]

01:28:45   just can't get on board with people [TS]

01:28:47   being completely honest to each other [TS]

01:28:49   and create work i do i just can't get on [TS]

01:28:52   board of that I'd I just can't imagine [TS]

01:28:55   people being completely honest it just [TS]

01:29:00   doesn't stitch doesnt sit with me [TS]

01:29:02   there might be a an idea in pixar of [TS]

01:29:05   people being more honest and then dead [TS]

01:29:08   but i can't imagine someone saying to [TS]

01:29:12   somebody that they really don't like a [TS]

01:29:14   piece of work and the majority of people [TS]

01:29:15   that work at Pixar being able to accept [TS]

01:29:17   that what is brush it off and move on [TS]

01:29:20   it can't work everywhere just conks [TS]

01:29:22   people humans and the f emotions and [TS]

01:29:24   emotions get hurt [TS]

01:29:25   it would say that's where I think that [TS]

01:29:27   some of the best stuff in the book is is [TS]

01:29:30   his harping repeatedly on the idea then [TS]

01:29:34   creative work you should not associate [TS]

01:29:36   yourself with the creative work right [TS]

01:29:38   maybe like if you live in pixar you can [TS]

01:29:42   do this but i don't think that this is [TS]

01:29:45   an easy thing to do to have people like [TS]

01:29:48   maybe you know they they talk about it [TS]

01:29:50   work on it so much inside of pixar that [TS]

01:29:53   it works but I just struggle to see it [TS]

01:29:56   like that [TS]

01:29:57   this is where I think he is trying to [TS]

01:30:00   convince the reader of an idea that is [TS]

01:30:02   not the normal idea [TS]

01:30:04   yeah i'll definitely and so we get in in [TS]

01:30:06   my experience in all of my working [TS]

01:30:07   experience with other people people are [TS]

01:30:11   impossible to separate from their ideas [TS]

01:30:14   like someone comes up with a dumb idea [TS]

01:30:16   for how they want to change the [TS]

01:30:18   curriculum next quarter and if you [TS]

01:30:20   attack that idea they take it as an [TS]

01:30:22   attack on them and it's like a [TS]

01:30:24   christ-like can we talk about the thing [TS]

01:30:27   like we're not talking about you [TS]

01:30:29   I get that is a a far too prevalent [TS]

01:30:33   natural human reaction but i think it's [TS]

01:30:36   like that's what I really like in this [TS]

01:30:37   book is him just repeatedly hammering on [TS]

01:30:40   this and this might be my bias of like [TS]

01:30:44   believing it can't be true but you know [TS]

01:30:47   like because it does it really I think [TS]

01:30:50   anybody that works we have creative [TS]

01:30:53   people can see how far-fetched are [TS]

01:30:55   difficult an idea this seems to be [TS]

01:30:57   because people do get upset [TS]

01:31:00   yeah but you can't produce really good [TS]

01:31:04   stuff if you are associating yourself [TS]

01:31:06   with the idea and you know again with [TS]

01:31:10   with people i know like everybody is [TS]

01:31:12   kind of an agreement that you know like [TS]

01:31:14   the negative feedback is the feedback [TS]

01:31:15   that is valuable [TS]

01:31:17   like if you if you are making stuff for [TS]

01:31:18   the internet and you're making stuff for [TS]

01:31:21   people to enjoy you have to pay [TS]

01:31:24   attention to negative feedback in the [TS]

01:31:26   production process I get super super [TS]

01:31:29   valuable no matter how much it hurts [TS]

01:31:32   yet no matter how much it hurts because [TS]

01:31:33   it's gonna hurt more when everybody [TS]

01:31:35   laughs at you right here like all this [TS]

01:31:37   thing is terrible [TS]

01:31:38   like it's just that is just the way that [TS]

01:31:42   it it it has to to work [TS]

01:31:45   I just think as my friend derek has said [TS]

01:31:47   like the value of positive feedback [TS]

01:31:49   trends towards zero and so when you know [TS]

01:31:52   when you're talking about someone's work [TS]

01:31:54   it's like okay you open with like oh [TS]

01:31:55   yeah I like this I like this right but [TS]

01:31:57   very quickly you get three positive [TS]

01:31:59   comments in and it's like okay but now [TS]

01:32:00   these positive comments are worthless [TS]

01:32:01   and like let's get down to brass tacks [TS]

01:32:03   and tell me what's terrible [TS]

01:32:04   yeah because like that that's what i [TS]

01:32:05   really want to know like we had a nice [TS]

01:32:07   little polite opening but now let's like [TS]

01:32:09   let's really get to business and so I [TS]

01:32:12   think a lot of the stuff that he talks [TS]

01:32:13   about in pixar with this idea of trying [TS]

01:32:16   to set up what he calls this brain trust [TS]

01:32:19   where people are reviewing the movie and [TS]

01:32:22   trying to evaluate it as a thing [TS]

01:32:25   separate from the person who has created [TS]

01:32:28   it and talk about what is the problems [TS]

01:32:31   with this movie not like what is the [TS]

01:32:33   problem with your movie i think that is [TS]

01:32:37   valuable valuable stuff for anybody who [TS]

01:32:42   works on [TS]

01:32:43   on a team and creative work I I like I [TS]

01:32:46   have definitely recommended creativity [TS]

01:32:47   ink to a lot of people and seems to get [TS]

01:32:50   interesting feedback from people saying [TS]

01:32:51   like oh yes this is quite valuable to [TS]

01:32:53   think about like really try hard to make [TS]

01:32:56   it explicit in feedback sessions that we [TS]

01:32:58   are discussing the thing we're not [TS]

01:33:01   discussing the the people and like that [TS]

01:33:04   is that is the most important thing that [TS]

01:33:06   you can do but I still just like my [TS]

01:33:09   little asterisk in my brain about this [TS]

01:33:10   is it still just falls back about like [TS]

01:33:12   the most important thing that was that [TS]

01:33:15   you have good people on that brain trust [TS]

01:33:17   like there's there's no he talks about [TS]

01:33:19   systems and all the rest of it i guess [TS]

01:33:21   thats that's useful but like ultimately [TS]

01:33:24   you need some really good people on that [TS]

01:33:25   brain trust like that is the thing that [TS]

01:33:28   makes it work and that's that's what I [TS]

01:33:31   wonder about like Pixar trying to put in [TS]

01:33:33   systems for the future is like okay yes [TS]

01:33:36   but what happens when those original [TS]

01:33:38   teams are are no longer there like your [TS]

01:33:41   brings about the words of the brain [TS]

01:33:42   trust those so the brain trust is a [TS]

01:33:44   group inside of pixar of that ranges [TS]

01:33:47   across the company of people that seem [TS]

01:33:50   to have a real good grasp on developing [TS]

01:33:52   stories [TS]

01:33:53   mhm and these people get together and [TS]

01:33:56   they review the work that's being [TS]

01:33:58   produced and help unstick a movie and [TS]

01:34:02   while they may be helped develop a story [TS]

01:34:04   that isn't working or can those you know [TS]

01:34:06   that that really are working they offer [TS]

01:34:09   candid feedback to each other and [TS]

01:34:13   there's this as he says sometimes the [TS]

01:34:14   braintrust doesn't necessarily fix a [TS]

01:34:16   problem but it might highlight something [TS]

01:34:18   that isn't working [TS]

01:34:20   hmm this is the best thing for me to [TS]

01:34:24   take away from the book and I can't [TS]

01:34:27   remember where i first heard this but it [TS]

01:34:30   in the internet circles that I have [TS]

01:34:32   running in the past there has always [TS]

01:34:33   been a phrase of your board of directors [TS]

01:34:35   which I've always really latched onto is [TS]

01:34:38   like a group of people that you think [TS]

01:34:40   are important to you and that you value [TS]

01:34:42   their opinions that you trust and get [TS]

01:34:46   feedback from [TS]

01:34:48   used to help further your work [TS]

01:34:52   mm so I've always had a foreign land at [TS]

01:34:54   the people who i will send work to get [TS]

01:34:57   feedback but what I've been thinking [TS]

01:34:59   about is how could real laugh and be [TS]

01:35:03   more like pigs are aiming high like and [TS]

01:35:06   no but like from a structure perspective [TS]

01:35:09   so who I've been trying to like to still [TS]

01:35:11   what they are and to still what we are [TS]

01:35:14   and seeing how there are similarities in [TS]

01:35:18   that it's like a production company that [TS]

01:35:22   helps produce and grow different [TS]

01:35:25   properties like that's why I tried to [TS]

01:35:27   like take it right down to the very [TS]

01:35:28   basics and then try to think about it [TS]

01:35:30   from there so like I thinking if we [TS]

01:35:32   don't really do so much let's say we [TS]

01:35:34   wanted to create a new show we don't [TS]

01:35:38   really go very deep into like somebody [TS]

01:35:41   has an idea and then we like really [TS]

01:35:42   developer like there is an element of it [TS]

01:35:45   by me like months of water can like [TS]

01:35:48   month you know pilots and then we scrap [TS]

01:35:50   the idea and we start over like that [TS]

01:35:52   like real intense work doesn't really [TS]

01:35:57   happen [TS]

01:35:58   I don't know anybody that does what I do [TS]

01:36:01   that really looks at it in that way so I [TS]

01:36:04   wonder like what the value is something [TS]

01:36:06   like that would be and having a group of [TS]

01:36:08   people that would work on a new project [TS]

01:36:10   together like that and not even that [TS]

01:36:12   they're necessarily involved in the [TS]

01:36:13   production but involved in like the [TS]

01:36:15   judging and development of it i just [TS]

01:36:17   think like how interesting that could be [TS]

01:36:19   that's one of the things that is now [TS]

01:36:22   rattling around in my brain a lot is [TS]

01:36:24   like this brain trust idea helping [TS]

01:36:28   develop and produce a show what that [TS]

01:36:30   could look like and I think it could be [TS]

01:36:33   quite an ambitious project to work on [TS]

01:36:34   like a like a brain trust for podcasts [TS]

01:36:38   are yakking yeah interesting idea to [TS]

01:36:42   either is like it's just something has [TS]

01:36:44   been rattling around in my brain is like [TS]

01:36:46   a how could we try and think more like [TS]

01:36:50   that because you know it's it's very [TS]

01:36:52   different but when really kind of [TS]

01:36:55   stripped back to its essentials not [TS]

01:36:59   crazily different in what [TS]

01:37:01   misto them pics are works very [TS]

01:37:05   differently to my old company the idea [TS]

01:37:09   of honesty trust people making [TS]

01:37:10   themselves accountable or spear [TS]

01:37:12   respectful of time not living in fear an [TS]

01:37:14   actual desire to teach people not just [TS]

01:37:16   tick boxes those things are all the [TS]

01:37:20   complete opposite of the environment i [TS]

01:37:23   worked in and you know environments that [TS]

01:37:25   I know other people walked in [TS]

01:37:27   who and I'm sure that pixar isn't [TS]

01:37:30   perfect but it really feels like they [TS]

01:37:34   try their best to create a company that [TS]

01:37:36   tries to his best of people who I've [TS]

01:37:40   really felt that [TS]

01:37:42   yeah it is it is definitely it [TS]

01:37:46   definitely comes through that if that is [TS]

01:37:49   the case in the book like that they want [TS]

01:37:52   to create an environment where people [TS]

01:37:57   can try to achieve their best i think [TS]

01:37:59   that i think that is that is pretty [TS]

01:38:01   obvious from the way the book is written [TS]

01:38:02   that that is that is what their their [TS]

01:38:05   goal is like like I I like the part [TS]

01:38:08   where they talk about the pixar shorts [TS]

01:38:12   that they put together as an example of [TS]

01:38:14   like somebody has an idea like let's [TS]

01:38:17   just let's just let them go with it like [TS]

01:38:19   some just go ahead and produce a short [TS]

01:38:21   and how they very consciously don't [TS]

01:38:23   think of those shorts as commercial [TS]

01:38:25   endeavours they tried to didn't a like [TS]

01:38:28   they're tried to think all this could be [TS]

01:38:29   a way to help develop our technology and [TS]

01:38:32   then realized very quickly that they [TS]

01:38:34   don't do that they don't help at all [TS]

01:38:35   that just cost you money and don't do [TS]

01:38:37   anything right they just they just cost [TS]

01:38:39   money and time and people and yeah it's [TS]

01:38:42   like it is there's no line on a [TS]

01:38:44   spreadsheet which justifies those shorts [TS]

01:38:47   but that they have some some ambiguous [TS]

01:38:50   difficult to pin down feeling that [TS]

01:38:52   allowing people to work on those short [TS]

01:38:54   creative projects is worthwhile and so [TS]

01:38:57   they do it even though there is no [TS]

01:38:58   business justification for whatsoever [TS]

01:39:01   I think like that is a that is precisely [TS]

01:39:03   the kind of thing that I think is a [TS]

01:39:05   great sign from a company and wood wood [TS]

01:39:09   for me be in the future like a huge red [TS]

01:39:11   flag of pixar ever stop doing shorts [TS]

01:39:14   like mm okay yeah that's a that's a big [TS]

01:39:18   fat slow fish in a barrel to shoot if [TS]

01:39:21   you are a bean-counter yeah like that's [TS]

01:39:24   the obvious thing to shoot and they're [TS]

01:39:25   like its absence would be quite notable [TS]

01:39:27   if they ever if they ever stop doing [TS]

01:39:28   that [TS]

01:39:29   it's like he says at one point kind of [TS]

01:39:31   the idea that you can measure things but [TS]

01:39:34   be okay with the fact that you can't [TS]

01:39:36   completely measure everything [TS]

01:39:38   yeah yeah and this is one of those [TS]

01:39:39   things yes without a doubt that that is [TS]

01:39:42   that is definitely that was definitely [TS]

01:39:43   the case my favorite part of the book is [TS]

01:39:47   the part I think it's like part 4 which [TS]

01:39:50   is the disney-pixar merger and because [TS]

01:39:54   what it does is throughout the whole [TS]

01:39:56   book they're talking about the things [TS]

01:39:58   that they do and the things that they [TS]

01:39:59   believe in and how they think that [TS]

01:40:01   things that they do can help build a [TS]

01:40:02   great company and then this was the case [TS]

01:40:04   study moving out more and last i had to [TS]

01:40:07   go into disney and make disney work more [TS]

01:40:10   like Pixar blue and see if it helped and [TS]

01:40:14   it did [TS]

01:40:15   yeah yeah but there i think it's it's [TS]

01:40:17   pretty easy to say that that the [TS]

01:40:21   excellent out proof rhesus right and it [TS]

01:40:25   also has the like the interesting mirror [TS]

01:40:27   of almost like a reverse merger in the [TS]

01:40:29   same way that apple bought next and he's [TS]

01:40:31   like yeah what did you like favoring mix [TS]

01:40:33   took over apple exactly i mean and who [TS]

01:40:35   was responsible because those yeah [TS]

01:40:38   exists it's like steve jobs like oh hi [TS]

01:40:40   Steve Jobs showing up again like this [TS]

01:40:42   exact same maneuver role and there is [TS]

01:40:44   definitely a feeling like did disney by [TS]

01:40:49   pixar I legally yes but it certainly [TS]

01:40:52   feels like Disney has been very pics are [TS]

01:40:57   five [TS]

01:40:57   yes why it's a merger and acquisition [TS]

01:41:00   yeah you know they bet the the smaller [TS]

01:41:03   companies leaders came in and run the [TS]

01:41:05   new team right [TS]

01:41:07   yeah it's yeah it's it's it's [TS]

01:41:08   interesting it's interesting to see it's [TS]

01:41:11   interesting to see but it also does it [TS]

01:41:14   like gives us this funny feeling of like [TS]

01:41:16   his Pixar as ahead as they used to be [TS]

01:41:18   like maybe not but it's also like [TS]

01:41:20   entirely their fault someplace with [TS]

01:41:22   Disney like I just need seems to be [TS]

01:41:24   making much better stuff than they used [TS]

01:41:26   to [TS]

01:41:27   you know getting out of the wilderness [TS]

01:41:29   finally with their ownership of pixar so [TS]

01:41:32   i gotta say i think i've really enjoyed [TS]

01:41:34   this book i enjoyed it from an [TS]

01:41:35   entertainment perspective I found it [TS]

01:41:38   very very interesting just to hear the [TS]

01:41:40   story but there were things in it that [TS]

01:41:42   really i have pulled out like the idea [TS]

01:41:44   of the brain trust and thinking about [TS]

01:41:46   what that looks like for me and the idea [TS]

01:41:49   of thinking about people with talent [TS]

01:41:51   thinking about giving people the ability [TS]

01:41:53   to do work like there are a lot of [TS]

01:41:55   things in this book that really i think [TS]

01:41:59   i'm going to put a lot more fall into [TS]

01:42:01   I'm and there are still things from [TS]

01:42:03   email but I think about that you're [TS]

01:42:05   genuinely and there are still things [TS]

01:42:06   that we need to do want to do for our [TS]

01:42:09   business that would spoke about in that [TS]

01:42:11   book there is benefit in these books and [TS]

01:42:13   I hope that we're able to distill these [TS]

01:42:15   down for people if they don't want to [TS]

01:42:17   take the time to listen to these to our [TS]

01:42:18   book I have to say one of the biggest [TS]

01:42:21   things from either from this is Pixar [TS]

01:42:23   has now joined the very small group of [TS]

01:42:26   companies that i would take a job i [TS]

01:42:29   don't think i would there's a job for me [TS]

01:42:30   at Pixar but listening to their culture [TS]

01:42:34   and the way that they work like I could [TS]

01:42:36   I could work in that could work in a [TS]

01:42:38   culture that's high praise indeed [TS]

01:42:40   what are the other companies on that [TS]

01:42:41   list cards against humanity ok and field [TS]

01:42:45   notes and field notes [TS]

01:42:47   ok alright that seems that seems very [TS]

01:42:50   Mike list of places that places that he [TS]

01:42:53   would he would work [TS]

01:42:54   yeah like I think people like Apple I [TS]

01:42:58   don't know if I could do it now why [TS]

01:43:00   would want to work at Apple don't know [TS]

01:43:02   if I could do it i don't know if i would [TS]

01:43:04   want to be as quiet as they would tend [TS]

01:43:06   to be too much pressure major secrecy [TS]

01:43:08   like I'm very I'm very grateful for the [TS]

01:43:10   people who do work at Apple but I think [TS]

01:43:12   like that's a the the tough path [TS]

01:43:17   perhaps in in life that I i would not [TS]

01:43:21   take a job at Pixar i would i would do [TS]

01:43:24   voice work for Pixar no but I would [TS]

01:43:26   never ever take a job at Pixar I don't [TS]

01:43:29   think that would that would be what I [TS]

01:43:31   would do like I'm pretty happy with my [TS]

01:43:32   my one-man totally unscalable [TS]

01:43:36   frustrating in some ways but incredibly [TS]

01:43:40   liberty [TS]

01:43:40   being in other ways business there's a [TS]

01:43:43   couple of final point just looking [TS]

01:43:45   through looking through my notes with [TS]

01:43:47   some of which were double highlighted [TS]

01:43:49   from me from two years ago with me from [TS]

01:43:50   now one of the things which is a point [TS]

01:43:53   often reiterated and creative work but i [TS]

01:43:56   think is always always useful to [TS]

01:43:57   emphasize is a capital talks about the [TS]

01:44:01   baby like the ugly baby and how the [TS]

01:44:04   early drafts of all creative work are [TS]

01:44:06   horrifying I like they're not they're [TS]

01:44:09   not good to look at that they take a lot [TS]

01:44:12   of they take a lot of work to go through [TS]

01:44:14   and perhaps one of the things that I [TS]

01:44:15   like the best in the book was him going [TS]

01:44:18   through what some of the movie and [TS]

01:44:22   looked like before they became the movie [TS]

01:44:24   so valuable [TS]

01:44:25   yeah and I think up was a great example [TS]

01:44:27   of that where he goes throughout the [TS]

01:44:29   Gospels are like the you know it's like [TS]

01:44:33   that the first the first version was all [TS]

01:44:35   about like a magical ostrich and it's [TS]

01:44:37   like what I'm like okay but but they go [TS]

01:44:40   through like here were the three or four [TS]

01:44:42   iterations of up before we settled on on [TS]

01:44:45   what the eventual story would be and [TS]

01:44:47   monsters inc as well was really [TS]

01:44:49   interesting for ya monsters inc was was [TS]

01:44:52   essentially like like the delusions of a [TS]

01:44:54   paranoid schizophrenic like that like [TS]

01:44:56   that was that was draft one of monsters [TS]

01:44:58   inc i feel like the idea of the [TS]

01:45:00   inside-out came from the original draft [TS]

01:45:03   of monsters inc [TS]

01:45:05   yeah you could maybe you could maybe see [TS]

01:45:06   like a marriage between those two [TS]

01:45:08   but i canna monsters die it's like how [TS]

01:45:10   like this guy can see monsters and they [TS]

01:45:14   are like his feelings and his emotions [TS]

01:45:17   and his problems following him around as [TS]

01:45:19   monsters and then the idea the end of [TS]

01:45:22   the movie is he feels better his life [TS]

01:45:24   gets better and the monsters go away and [TS]

01:45:26   a sec I can't see the killing the [TS]

01:45:28   monsters which is what the kids would [TS]

01:45:30   relate to because I'm sure there'll be [TS]

01:45:31   fun looking monsters right yeah it's [TS]

01:45:34   like I don't understand how you could [TS]

01:45:35   ever think that this was going to work [TS]

01:45:37   but but like that is the whole point of [TS]

01:45:39   it is that when you go through the first [TS]

01:45:41   drafts when you are creating something [TS]

01:45:44   it's not always obvious that the thing [TS]

01:45:46   is terrible like but it doesn't matter [TS]

01:45:48   like just get the idea out and then [TS]

01:45:49   we'll just we'll just work on this [TS]

01:45:51   and and so we only talked about how it's [TS]

01:45:53   like we like the monsters we don't [TS]

01:45:55   really like the main character like what [TS]

01:45:56   can we do with the monsters and and they [TS]

01:45:58   go through all these different [TS]

01:45:58   variations of like oh maybe we can have [TS]

01:46:01   this character called boo and she's like [TS]

01:46:03   a like a angry teenager is like I don't [TS]

01:46:05   know it's better if she's a toddler like [TS]

01:46:07   I think it is useful to see some [TS]

01:46:09   examples of how things change like how [TS]

01:46:12   they go from being awful to how they go [TS]

01:46:14   to being better like if you do any kind [TS]

01:46:16   of creative work it's always useful to [TS]

01:46:18   hear that kind of stuff to be like wow [TS]

01:46:20   it was terrible in the beginning this [TS]

01:46:22   makes me feel better about mine terrible [TS]

01:46:24   first version of of whatever it is that [TS]

01:46:27   i'm working on so you know is his [TS]

01:46:29   version of this is called I know the [TS]

01:46:31   ugly baby that this is the idea that [TS]

01:46:33   like they're all ugly in the beginning [TS]

01:46:35   some of them will grow up to be great [TS]

01:46:37   but not all of them and the other the [TS]

01:46:41   other thing which really struck out to [TS]

01:46:43   me in this in this reading of it which [TS]

01:46:46   didn't strike me so much the first time [TS]

01:46:47   was his flip side of the ugly baby is [TS]

01:46:51   what he talked calls the beast and he [TS]

01:46:54   talks about feeding the Beast where you [TS]

01:46:58   as a company end up creating this [TS]

01:47:03   pressure for you to keep producing stuff [TS]

01:47:05   and he talks about how you start having [TS]

01:47:08   all of these fixed costs like you have [TS]

01:47:12   employees and you have buildings and you [TS]

01:47:14   have electrical bills and all of this is [TS]

01:47:17   the Beast that will just eat you alive [TS]

01:47:20   unless you keep producing stuff and I [TS]

01:47:23   think there's a very interesting section [TS]

01:47:25   where he talks about from his [TS]

01:47:26   perspective it was partly like the Beast [TS]

01:47:28   that ate up Disney that they became very [TS]

01:47:32   concerned about like we have to just [TS]

01:47:34   constantly keep pushing movies out and [TS]

01:47:37   that like the the the Beast is this [TS]

01:47:40   thing which if you will let it will try [TS]

01:47:43   to like chain you to an assembly-line [TS]

01:47:45   schedule of like we've got to have a [TS]

01:47:47   movie out every six months like go go go [TS]

01:47:49   because we have all these animators and [TS]

01:47:51   we have to pay them and I thought good [TS]

01:47:53   it's a really interesting thing to keep [TS]

01:47:56   in mind and obviously as a person who's [TS]

01:47:59   not super fan of schedules like aye aye [TS]

01:48:03   aye [TS]

01:48:04   align with that idea very much but [TS]

01:48:07   particularly caught me this time because [TS]

01:48:09   at least in my own personal experiences [TS]

01:48:11   like I am aware that you know have [TS]

01:48:15   having been self-employed for four years [TS]

01:48:16   now that i have slowly but surely built [TS]

01:48:20   up more of my own beast than I had even [TS]

01:48:24   the first time I read this book when I [TS]

01:48:25   was like oh yeah the Beast ok whatever [TS]

01:48:27   this is like an interesting idea but now [TS]

01:48:29   I really feel this idea of like oh god I [TS]

01:48:32   do have fixed costs like and I do have [TS]

01:48:35   people that I work with who I pay and [TS]

01:48:37   like I have these expenses with like an [TS]

01:48:39   assistant and with lawyers and with [TS]

01:48:41   stock footage and like this office that [TS]

01:48:43   I'm renting and like all of this kind of [TS]

01:48:45   stuff and that was just it was useful to [TS]

01:48:48   read that and just keep in mind like [TS]

01:48:49   with many of these books the utility is [TS]

01:48:52   putting a word to with thing it's useful [TS]

01:48:55   to have this idea of like the Beast and [TS]

01:48:57   you have to keep the beast at bay [TS]

01:48:59   I can see it's provide some motivation [TS]

01:49:01   but you you can't let it become the [TS]

01:49:04   controlling factor and you can't let it [TS]

01:49:06   like chain you into the like tricking [TS]

01:49:09   you into just producing stuff just to [TS]

01:49:11   get something out the door so that you [TS]

01:49:13   have money coming in to pay your fixed [TS]

01:49:14   costs because as he points out like if [TS]

01:49:17   you get into that cycle the more [TS]

01:49:20   successful you are like the bigger the [TS]

01:49:22   Beast will get like the more expenses [TS]

01:49:24   you'll start incurring which then just [TS]

01:49:26   pushes you to produce even more low [TS]

01:49:28   quality stuff just to get things out the [TS]

01:49:30   door so yes it's a especially in the [TS]

01:49:34   last couple months which have been [TS]

01:49:35   unusually expensive for me like that [TS]

01:49:37   really that really struck home in the in [TS]

01:49:39   the second reading of the book so last [TS]

01:49:41   time we told you not to read email [TS]

01:49:44   freezes revisited um and I maintain [TS]

01:49:47   begging you not to do but i would [TS]

01:49:51   recommend people read this book I think [TS]

01:49:54   it's very interesting i think there's [TS]

01:49:55   stuff that you should listen to we [TS]

01:49:58   didn't I don't think we covered every [TS]

01:49:59   all of the lessons we definitely didn't [TS]

01:50:01   cover all the lessons that are in this [TS]

01:50:03   book [TS]

01:50:04   there might be things that resonate with [TS]

01:50:05   you more than they did with me and grey [TS]

01:50:07   I ice i recommend reading creative tank [TS]

01:50:10   yeah i'm going to definitely second [TS]

01:50:14   recommend the book as i mentioned like [TS]

01:50:16   there were things I didn't like as much [TS]

01:50:17   the same [TS]

01:50:18   in time around the small small pic i [TS]

01:50:21   really don't like the the narrator for [TS]

01:50:23   the audiobook I had an area [TS]

01:50:25   oh man ok can we talk about that for [TS]

01:50:27   just a split second he's not as bad as a [TS]

01:50:29   previous narrator but I just I don't [TS]

01:50:32   like I don't like his voice I don't like [TS]

01:50:33   the way it sounds [TS]

01:50:34   I don't know what at capital sounds like [TS]

01:50:36   I have no idea but the narrator is like [TS]

01:50:38   okay so I kept having this feeling that [TS]

01:50:41   the narrator is basically like an [TS]

01:50:43   over-enthusiastic grandpa who's telling [TS]

01:50:47   you stories that should be interesting [TS]

01:50:49   but it's his very enthusiasm and the way [TS]

01:50:52   he is emphasizing stuff that makes it an [TS]

01:50:55   interesting so it's like oh you're [TS]

01:50:57   telling me stories from about when you [TS]

01:50:58   used to work with walt disney in the [TS]

01:50:59   nineteen-twenties grandpa but like [TS]

01:51:01   you're over [TS]

01:51:03   I don't know / friendly way it's just [TS]

01:51:05   like killing any interest in the story [TS]

01:51:07   like this one point where like the [TS]

01:51:09   author is reading about like a car crash [TS]

01:51:10   that capitalism is like you can't use [TS]

01:51:13   the same voice the same like super [TS]

01:51:15   over-friendly old man voice to do this [TS]

01:51:18   part of the story is there not a fan not [TS]

01:51:21   a fan of the of the narrator for the [TS]

01:51:23   audiobook so maybe i would read this i [TS]

01:51:25   know you don't read books Mike but I [TS]

01:51:27   read it the first time didn't like the [TS]

01:51:29   didn't like the narrator for the [TS]

01:51:30   audiobook I think it does suffer a [TS]

01:51:35   little bit of what i think of as the the [TS]

01:51:39   DVD extra problem where everyone is [TS]

01:51:42   always talking about how great everybody [TS]

01:51:44   else is to work with and so there are [TS]

01:51:46   there are many things was just here to [TS]

01:51:48   take me in the book where is like Ed [TS]

01:51:50   Catmull I cannot read another [TS]

01:51:52   description where you are talking about [TS]

01:51:53   how amazing and ingenious and bold the [TS]

01:51:56   idea for this next movie is like I can't [TS]

01:52:00   deal with that anymore man like there's [TS]

01:52:01   just too much of it so that kind of [TS]

01:52:03   graded on me after a while but those [TS]

01:52:06   things aside I have recommended this [TS]

01:52:08   book many times over the years since i [TS]

01:52:11   first read it and for anybody working on [TS]

01:52:14   the team I would definitely continue to [TS]

01:52:16   recommend it so creativity inc check it [TS]

01:52:18   out [TS]