Cortex 25: Creativity, inc.


  great I'm ruined why are you running [TS]

  like I got upgraded to business class [TS]

  haha ah well well well you know what I'm [TS]

  going to expect I'm gonna expect a big [TS]

  apology because you and many other [TS]

  people always give me grief about flying [TS]

  standby but I didn't try to schedule [TS]

  things to get an upgrade to business [TS]

  class i'm not saying you flew standby [TS]

  but you now have tasted the sweet sweet [TS]

  vector of business class and you're [TS]

  telling me the giroux and so now [TS]

  imagining you can understand why someone [TS]

  might make plans around even the mere [TS]

  chance of getting business class if this [TS]

  if it is statistically proven that it is [TS]

  more likely for you to receive business [TS]

  or opera or first because of flying [TS]

  standby [TS]

  oh it is the way I fly it is then i can [TS]

  understand now [TS]

  mm so I was in the airport waiting to [TS]

  board where were you where you flying [TS]

  from where you flying to from dallas to [TS]

  London [TS]

  ok that's a pretty long flight so i [TS]

  think on the way there is 10 hours on [TS]

  the way back it's like a harmless [TS]

  something em and I'm sitting in the [TS]

  airport I i like to be very early in [TS]

  airports very early like lots of time [TS]

  yeah that's the only way to be drives [TS]

  everybody that I know my life crazy but [TS]

  like for example for this flight i made [TS]

  sure i was at the airport like four [TS]

  hours before if that's reasonable i like [TS]

  that i like to just take my time but [TS]

  other people think I'm crazy [TS]

  no now it's this is the right way to do [TS]

  it my feeling is like we can wait at the [TS]

  airport or we can wait at home we might [TS]

  as well wait at the airport [TS]

  good I like that Joanna know my theory [TS]

  for this my thinking what if you catch a [TS]

  bus or train you can just get the next [TS]

  one that does not work so well with [TS]

  planes no it does not [TS]

  you cannot just get the next one what do [TS]

  that that is not a thing that happens [TS]

  I'll just wait at the gate until the [TS]

  next one pulls up know you want sir you [TS]

  will give us have a thousand dollars and [TS]

  then maybe if you're lucky you'll get [TS]

  there next week [TS]

  yeah so I was as getting ready to board [TS]

  us sitting at the gate and you know it's [TS]

  like they're like but had an [TS]

  announcement go out and they set up a [TS]

  bunch of names and they said my name [TS]

  please approach the desk for an [TS]

  important message and also gone though [TS]

  what they've done like I'm not going [TS]

  home today went out to the lady gave [TS]

  them my passport he had like a real [TS]

  stone face on she typed in a bunch of [TS]

  things she gave me tickets like you've [TS]

  been upgraded to business class [TS]

  thank you i was like i expected the [TS]

  first time this would happen to their to [TS]

  be just a little bit more fanfare you [TS]

  know like even just a smile maybe she [TS]

  just didn't care so by the I cared very [TS]

  much because i was very excited about [TS]

  all of this so business classes amazing [TS]

  i flew with british airways mhm so it i [TS]

  basically had a bed that I could make up [TS]

  for myself [TS]

  ok yeah so this is the thing like [TS]

  business class varies wildly between [TS]

  airlines and also just between the model [TS]

  of planes yeah some business classes you [TS]

  get screwed and what you really have is [TS]

  economy plus from 30 years ago [TS]

  yeah but some business classes you get a [TS]

  space seat and so it sounds like you had [TS]

  one of those this was this was an older [TS]

  plane so it wasn't super fancy but I had [TS]

  like a little hard type area there's [TS]

  like a divider between me and the two [TS]

  people that were on the other side and I [TS]

  had a regular chair that had buttons [TS]

  that could basically recline me and then [TS]

  it could go real down flat and I had [TS]

  this foot thing that could bring up and [TS]

  i was able to sleep on the plane only [TS]

  for a couple of hours because the time [TS]

  was a bit weird but I got two hours of [TS]

  good uninterruptedly sleep sleeping on [TS]

  my side as I like sleeping on a plain [TS]

  gray thing I am ruined forever [TS]

  yeah now you'll never want to fly again [TS]

  unless its business class seats so this [TS]

  is my thinking right now is I've been [TS]

  flying more and more recently in economy [TS]

  plus or premium economy it's called in [TS]

  some places I've been flying more and [TS]

  more like that because it is just far [TS]

  significant for not too much more money [TS]

  in some cases yes and especially [TS]

  for a tall guy like yourself it really [TS]

  makes a difference yeah you got the [TS]

  extra space the cabins and more empty [TS]

  people with babies for some reason don't [TS]

  seem too often by economy plus tickets [TS]

  let alone is is worth it [TS]

  you can't let metal cutlery in your food [TS]

  with like you you basically feel more [TS]

  like a civilized human and less like [TS]

  cattle [TS]

  yeah exactly so I'm luckily in a [TS]

  position where I for a lot of the trips [TS]

  I can't afford it or their business [TS]

  expenses so that you know works out for [TS]

  me but now i'm thinking more about like [TS]

  for the really long ones could I maybe [TS]

  fly business class coming home [TS]

  mmm that feels good because going there [TS]

  you're excited to go so it doesn't feel [TS]

  so bad i think it may be coming home a [TS]

  lot of the flights were like red eyes [TS]

  could I get a few hours sleep will [TS]

  improve my life significantly so for San [TS]

  Francisco I'm definitely gonna do it and [TS]

  flowing with a friend and we're [TS]

  considering doing that together and [TS]

  doing virgin and therefore going [TS]

  upper-class virginian-pilot upper-class [TS]

  they only have upper records fans as [TS]

  dick haha way to own it virgin indian [TS]

  economy is incredible [TS]

  like it feels like you're in a plane in [TS]

  that all of their extra words look [TS]

  incredible and they bring you like [TS]

  champagne when you're getting on the [TS]

  plane ice fantastic it's the way to fly [TS]

  gray and now I'm ruined forever because [TS]

  I wonder what its gonna be like past [TS]

  that come with this sounds like to me is [TS]

  you need to grow relay into a much [TS]

  bigger company so that you can always [TS]

  fly upper-class maybe i can set a goal [TS]

  for that you know I think it's served in [TS]

  emirates where you can actually get like [TS]

  a room with double bed if you seen that [TS]

  iĆ­ve seen that stuff I've seen that [TS]

  stuff the thing with emirates though [TS]

  they have these crazy rooms and they're [TS]

  like thirty thousand dollar tickets [TS]

  delegates it's ridiculous luxury but all [TS]

  I can ever think is it looks so tacky [TS]

  because they really like gold accented [TS]

  everything but I look at things like [TS]

  thirty thousand dollars even if i had a [TS]

  despair like I wouldn't want to be [TS]

  surrounded [TS]

  that much tacky gold it just looks gross [TS]

  I don't like your design aesthetic I've [TS]

  never really looked into them very much [TS]

  because emirates ten not to fly to the [TS]

  places that I'm going [TS]

  mm you know they tend to go the other [TS]

  way a lot more right yeah of course but [TS]

  yeah so you ruined forever [TS]

  you need relay to earn more money to fly [TS]

  business class that's and speaking of [TS]

  which mile rd listeners can help us fly [TS]

  business class when we go for our [TS]

  acceptance speech for our campaign [TS]

  oh right of course of course you've been [TS]

  very busy like very busy we have [TS]

  t-shirts we have gray Holly 2016 [TS]

  t-shirts available we were working on a [TS]

  design this is this is a little bit of [TS]

  the back story of how this t-shirt came [TS]

  to be working on a design and I was [TS]

  showing you the designs i was gonna say [TS]

  what really happened here is you [TS]

  surprised me with a t-shirt design I was [TS]

  minding my own business and you sent me [TS]

  a design for yourself which I really [TS]

  liked them and we worked and developing [TS]

  it and then we had two colors we had a [TS]

  white and a blue and we only wanted to [TS]

  do one color because that we're going to [TS]

  be our campaign color and we we weren't [TS]

  sure what to do so you suggested to me [TS]

  why don't you put it to a Twitter vote [TS]

  and then I got really carried away [TS]

  yeah you seem to run like a bunch of [TS]

  runoffs and mm you know there's a lot of [TS]

  right public deciding for the design of [TS]

  the great early 2016 shirt and what we [TS]

  came down to was we doing a blue t-shirt [TS]

  a couple of different shades of blue and [TS]

  there is a there is a men's a woman's [TS]

  and a unisex long sleeve t-shirts and [TS]

  amend ever men's and women's short [TS]

  sleeve any unisex long sleeve which [TS]

  we're doing with teespring but we've got [TS]

  something a little bit different this [TS]

  time that we've never done before I've [TS]

  never done before [TS]

  there's a link in the show notes that [TS]

  you can click and teespring have been [TS]

  really good to us and they set up [TS]

  distribution from the US and the EU [TS]

  though so it should reduce shipping [TS]

  costs for most people outside of the US [TS]

  this is something that I don't trust me [TS]

  i feel this because i buy all the shirts [TS]

  from the US but they've hooked us up [TS]

  with this if there's like a special link [TS]

  that you'll find in our show notes and [TS]

  it does it by geo location and it works [TS]

  out with [TS]

  which one to switch campaign to send you [TS]

  to so you'll be able to buy one of our [TS]

  great t-shirts and support the campaign [TS]

  these are only available into april [TS]

  first so this is the only time you're [TS]

  gonna hear us talk about this so if you [TS]

  want one you got to go buy them because [TS]

  they will only be available until april [TS]

  first and i think it's great i think [TS]

  they do look great yeah you had to [TS]

  emojis drawing up there using emoji and [TS]

  for many gas customer g and yes if [TS]

  people want to get their hands on the [TS]

  gray early 2016 shirt if you are hearing [TS]

  the sound of my voice right now and you [TS]

  have just recently downloaded the [TS]

  episode you need to get in gear [TS]

  click the link in the show notes and [TS]

  grab the shirt before this campaign [TS]

  season is over we had a lot of people [TS]

  say why is there no gray sure and they [TS]

  expected that they would have to be a [TS]

  gracious campaigns blue you you endorse [TS]

  the blue right what I endorsed was if [TS]

  you're having something that looks like [TS]

  a presidential campaign logo it has to [TS]

  be red white and blue is like there's no [TS]

  there's no choice about that it's got to [TS]

  be red white and blue and we go [TS]

  you don't have presidential campaigns [TS]

  where someone is running a gray color [TS]

  that just doesn't happen people fooled i [TS]

  was getting carried away without your [TS]

  blessing [TS]

  well I mean you kind of were like I came [TS]

  back after some hidden message [TS]

  conversation to discover that you had [TS]

  run all of these various votes on [TS]

  Twitter like I had happens actually [TS]

  involved in some other things we will [TS]

  talk about later [TS]

  I just came back to my phone and it's [TS]

  like Oh Mike's been busy yesterday you [TS]

  did I mean like they're not they're not [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  I got I got carried away but within the [TS]

  constraints you know I just really went [TS]

  to the edges of those constraints for [TS]

  there were no constraints I told you [TS]

  instant message you know you go you go [TS]

  right ahead know I i justyou [TS]

  you asked me for some feedback i made [TS]

  some suggestions I / no constraints [TS]

  given don't don't radically portray this [TS]

  in a different way from the way it [TS]

  actually unfolded you know if you're [TS]

  going to be my running mate I I trust [TS]

  you to make these kind of decisions but [TS]

  i am going to complain when I don't like [TS]

  the look of it that's what I was doing [TS]

  yeah at that feels like a president vp [TS]

  situation I think you can do whatever [TS]

  you want as long as I'm okay with it [TS]

  how our houses search for campaign [TS]

  headquarters going ok listen I know what [TS]

  you're trying to do here right now we're [TS]

  trying to do here because listeners in [TS]

  the show notes the thing that we are [TS]

  going to talk about next is my further [TS]

  adventures in finding an office finding [TS]

  an office for me I their usual thanks [TS]

  trying to hit along here because they [TS]

  were together in the shown as I thought [TS]

  you are connecting them you know [TS]

  no I was not connect oh no they are [TS]

  separated by several carriage returns [TS]

  there's no way anyone could actually [TS]

  confuse these as related topics they [TS]

  also i'm just a simple related topics [TS]

  no this is a is the next bullet point [TS]

  not connected to the previous [TS]

  bullet-point today's episode of cortex [TS]

  is brought to you by PDF pen pro from [TS]

  smile you have me say before that PDF [TS]

  pen is the swiss army knife for pdfs [TS]

  well PDF pen pro is the knife with so [TS]

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  pen pro 7 requires Yosemite or later and [TS]

  what's great on El Capitan thank you so [TS]

  much to smile for their support of this [TS]

  show and really FM so actually i am not [TS]

  looking for a private office because I [TS]

  currently have an office huh [TS]

  yes i know this yeah you in it [TS]

  not right now okay i'm in my house right [TS]

  now [TS]

  ok but yet you mentioned last time on [TS]

  the show about like surely there are [TS]

  services that can try to help you find [TS]

  office space and long story short that [TS]

  is essentially what i did was i was [TS]

  using a website that specializes in [TS]

  trying to find people office space [TS]

  instead of just interrogating buildings [TS]

  or searching around and just trying to [TS]

  find things which was not working super [TS]

  great [TS]

  nah and yeah it's it's been interesting [TS]

  because you know when you are searching [TS]

  for anything you have a bunch of [TS]

  criteria and whenever you're having a [TS]

  hard time finding something you know [TS]

  like one of your criteria has to give [TS]

  and so as mentioned last time I really [TS]

  really really didn't want anything that [TS]

  was not within walking distance and that [TS]

  is already such an incredible constraint [TS]

  about like what is the exact area that I [TS]

  want an office in then you add in a [TS]

  couple of other things that I wanted and [TS]

  like I was going to be a hard thing to [TS]

  find [TS]

  so the thing that had to give was of [TS]

  course price so i do have this private [TS]

  office that is in a big building but it [TS]

  is very expensive so i have for the [TS]

  moment i have only signed a lease for [TS]

  six weeks because i need to make sure [TS]

  that this is a place that I am actually [TS]

  going to use that i'm actually going to [TS]

  work at because otherwise the fixed cost [TS]

  of this office is many multiples of the [TS]

  co-working space in which [TS]

  I currently am and so is one of the [TS]

  things like will this be worth it will [TS]

  it not I don't know I've been working [TS]

  there for let's see what today's [TS]

  thursday i just moved in four days ago [TS]

  so I've been going there and and working [TS]

  there a little bit in the mornings and [TS]

  evenings and it's been going well but i [TS]

  need to make sure that i'm i'm actually [TS]

  going to be very very efficiently use [TS]

  this space otherwise it will not be [TS]

  worth keeping but this is the progress [TS]

  so far would you like to see a picture [TS]

  Mike I should show you a picture make [TS]

  sure you remove the geotag from the [TS]

  picture so i can show up [TS]

  yeah haha mommy I brought your coffee [TS]

  I was one step ahead of you with that [TS]

  you think I'm ever going to share with [TS]

  you a geotag picture of my office [TS]

  no of course not here let me show you a [TS]

  picture of what it looked like before I [TS]

  moved in ok and I'll these will be [TS]

  appropriate for the show notes they will [TS]

  be yeah I think that's about how is that [TS]

  very exciting it is what if this is [TS]

  there a window [TS]

  you don't want people to like spot [TS]

  landmarks and then you know i can [TS]

  imagine someone with all the pictures on [TS]

  the wall was like stirring connecting [TS]

  them and stuff i specifically selected [TS]

  an office that has no windows [TS]

  I did not want the distraction of a [TS]

  window that is that ok this is a sad [TS]

  this is a very sad-looking office it up [TS]

  the word picture for the people Mike [TS]

  they're basically it looks like an [TS]

  interrogation room I think that's a [TS]

  little harsh know there are two tables [TS]

  there's a lamp [TS]

  there's no windows and a fluorescent [TS]

  light that is very interrogation room [TS]

  like it's just a square room there's two [TS]

  chairs there's two telephones there is [TS]

  some obscure artwork of a building on [TS]

  the wall you have generic corporate [TS]

  artwork it's not relate very well this [TS]

  this office [TS]

  no it is not no it's not and there is a [TS]

  cup of coffee sitting on the table and [TS]

  there's like a cabinet in the corner [TS]

  mm I guess have you done anything to [TS]

  make the office feel more homely did you [TS]

  paint the walls gray or something [TS]

  this office is set up for theoretically [TS]

  two people up to four people which I [TS]

  find out the horrifying is impossible [TS]

  that isn't impossible you could live [TS]

  here let me take me like that the place [TS]

  where I'm standing to take the photo [TS]

  there is a tiny bit of space behind me [TS]

  but what you could do and what I have [TS]

  seen other offices in this building do [TS]

  is put four desks all around the [TS]

  perimeter of the wall right don't get [TS]

  four people in there so that's nice you [TS]

  can just look directly at the warm right [TS]

  or the current setup you can look [TS]

  directly at the person who's sitting [TS]

  directly opposite you it's we discuss [TS]

  office layouts once before on the show [TS]

  and and this building that I am in its I [TS]

  don't know it's like ten stories tall [TS]

  all of the floors are nothing but open [TS]

  office spaces and there's an elevator [TS]

  that I can take up where you happen to [TS]

  be able to see into all of the floors [TS]

  and just like I go up all the floors you [TS]

  can see like these endless endless open [TS]

  offices this one floor happens to have [TS]

  this section that's carved offer [TS]

  individual offices but from my [TS]

  perspective all it is is the same thing [TS]

  but again on a smaller scale where every [TS]

  private office that I walk into actually [TS]

  has two to six people crammed in what [TS]

  seems like a terribly small space and [TS]

  like it's still fundamentally in [TS]

  openoffice as far as i can tell i'm the [TS]

  only person who has a private office in [TS]

  this whole place because I rented their [TS]

  smallest one which is for two people but [TS]

  I rented it just for me [TS]

  so there are other people that have [TS]

  these rooms but they have more than one [TS]

  person in them [TS]

  yeah yeah there's there to people or [TS]

  four people in a room this size all [TS]

  working together but so yes Mike I did [TS]

  spend quite a while making it much more [TS]

  homey [TS]

  so she would you like to see what looks [TS]

  like now yeah I just anticipating know [TS]

  liz is your computer on the desk but [TS]

  it's the only check [TS]

  oh no the radical changes alright a [TS]

  whole day [TS]

  holding stuff around that is that [TS]

  definitely feels like the productive [TS]

  notice that you're looking for you know [TS]

  get an office end up ok what [TS]

  ok um face forward picture Mike I you [TS]

  know what I can if you look at the first [TS]

  photo and you imagine that all of the [TS]

  office furniture in that photo is [TS]

  actually a transformer mhm and in the [TS]

  second photo it has taken on is fighting [TS]

  stance [TS]

  haha i like that that's good because all [TS]

  you did you just took the furniture and [TS]

  put it on top of each other [TS]

  okay well first of all first of all most [TS]

  importantly i took the painting off the [TS]

  wall [TS]

  oh yeah where is now needs that now [TS]

  where it is is it in storage in this [TS]

  office this place I got rid of it was [TS]

  like I don't I don't need your painting [TS]

  of a building or your photo of a [TS]

  building like this is gone there were [TS]

  two desks [TS]

  now this is this is my attempt like the [TS]

  whole reason I have this office is that [TS]

  this is my attempt to make like a little [TS]

  mini amsterdam situation like we have [TS]

  talked about on the podcast before where [TS]

  I have a space where I can regularly go [TS]

  and i right [TS]

  and one of the key things about the way [TS]

  that I'm most effectively right is I [TS]

  pace back and forth and I talk out loud [TS]

  right i type [TS]

  yep right so what i don't need is a desk [TS]

  to sit at i'm at home right now where I [TS]

  have a desk to sit at like there are [TS]

  plenty of cafes in London where there [TS]

  are places to say that I don't need [TS]

  another place to sit at so i took the [TS]

  one desk and I stacked on top of the [TS]

  other desk and then i set it up as a [TS]

  standing desk so I have my keyboard is [TS]

  on the first one at standing typing [TS]

  height with a little bit of a stand and [TS]

  I have my iPad pro is on the top desk so [TS]

  that is at eye level for looking at what [TS]

  I'm writing and so this is now a space [TS]

  where I can walk back and forth i have [TS]

  this setup all in place and I don't want [TS]

  any pictures in the room I don't want [TS]

  anything in the room I was trying to [TS]

  spread it out over a period of time so I [TS]

  didn't seem like too much of a weirdo to [TS]

  the people running the office but like I [TS]

  can you take out [TS]

  all the phones and like I can you take [TS]

  out all of this other stuff that you [TS]

  have been here can you remove the [TS]

  garbage can like hoping in the garbage [TS]

  can like okay I just wanted everything [TS]

  out of there except the very few things [TS]

  that I was going to use and so I'm [TS]

  pretty happy with this [TS]

  I could also see that like having the [TS]

  floor space for your pacing nature is [TS]

  good right so pushing all the furniture [TS]

  into one corner basically is good [TS]

  because you can move around a lot [TS]

  mm it's just some little parts that i [TS]

  wanna dig into a little bit more so [TS]

  ok what is that circular thing on the [TS]

  bottom desk yeah that is a speaker okay [TS]

  that is connected to the ipad via [TS]

  bluetooth so that it can play Thunder [TS]

  sound noises all the time when I'm in [TS]

  there was like an imaginary [TS]

  thunderstorms taking place in the room [TS]

  when I'm working I recommend the app [TS]

  Thunder escape to accomplish this is [TS]

  very good dust [TS]

  mm-hmm so you're in a nondescript [TS]

  building who with no windows in the room [TS]

  that you're in right on your own [TS]

  no the funder sounds playing I need some [TS]

  kind of white noise I need to kind of [TS]

  white noise whenever working I've just [TS]

  stack I don't know if anybody's ever [TS]

  described you as an evil supervillain [TS]

  before but you're really playing [TS]

  painting that picture from now this is [TS]

  just an accessibility issue [TS]

  uh-huh i have to do this I need to have [TS]

  some kind of white noise I can't be in a [TS]

  silent room I could just imagine [TS]

  somebody walking by your room something [TS]

  makes you laugh right [TS]

  mhm and they hear the thunder and [TS]

  they're like dr. Frankenstein renting a [TS]

  place here [TS]

  ok that's interesting very interesting [TS]

  why Thunder why don't like rain or whale [TS]

  music alright well music oh you gotta be [TS]

  kidding [TS]

  no yeah now that's not that's not what I [TS]

  need that's not helpful [TS]

  that's not helpful I find like [TS]

  thunderstorms rain is just good it's [TS]

  just in the background it's easy to to [TS]

  kind of forget that it's even there so [TS]

  it's that's why use like I don't like [TS]

  some people use waves and things I don't [TS]

  like that is to period [TS]

  addict it's distracting thunderstorms [TS]

  that's what you want [TS]

  it's not a lot of that ipad I oh yeah so [TS]

  there's an ipad which is on the top and [TS]

  ipad pro that is my ipad pro is it the [TS]

  ipad pro or an iPad pro it is the only [TS]

  ipad pro that i own this thing where you [TS]

  actually where you're trying to go with [TS]

  that just check it now i only own one [TS]

  ipad pro and I got a little stand for it [TS]

  so that it can be mounted vertically on [TS]

  the desk there and I just have my couple [TS]

  writing apps on the main screen so it's [TS]

  a perfect office setup so far anyway I'm [TS]

  gonna just attempt to drive the [TS]

  listeners crazy here [TS]

  mhm you can kind of make out the apps [TS]

  we're not gonna talk about today okay [TS]

  there's a new ones in there but we're [TS]

  just not gonna talk about it we'll leave [TS]

  it for another time [TS]

  some people will notice the new ones in [TS]

  there uh-huh yeah I didn't even notice [TS]

  that when i said to you I should have [TS]

  down resident further but i like that [TS]

  you can kind of see we'll come back to [TS]

  that there is the stuff that I want to [TS]

  talk about but I want to build the [TS]

  intrigue we gave you sleep on the [TS]

  calendar who now we're giving you [TS]

  something else to worry about em what we [TS]

  talked about office spaces and clothes [TS]

  officers who I took a trip to facebook [TS]

  last week [TS]

  oh yeah yeah a friend of mine comes over [TS]

  from San Francisco works facebook and he [TS]

  invited me to go visit the London [TS]

  offices would hate it all my would you [TS]

  hate it [TS]

  yeah is it open always it's as open as [TS]

  an office space could be well I'm i [TS]

  would expect no less from facebook [TS]

  because they had that marine the article [TS]

  about their new headquarters that they [TS]

  built which is the largest open floor [TS]

  space in the world my buddy works there [TS]

  he says he gets like 5,000 steps a day [TS]

  just trying to do his job [TS]

  God so I'm so when you tell me that [TS]

  London has a big open office space i'm [TS]

  not surprised yes over a couple of [TS]

  floors but like I got went in there and [TS]

  there were four people really [TS]

  enthusiastically playing ping-pong [TS]

  mm like really enthusiastically playing [TS]

  there was no joke who had a couple of [TS]

  floors they have snacks everywhere [TS]

  we had lunch at the canteen which is [TS]

  like completely free food and there was [TS]

  like sweets and stuff it was great that [TS]

  everybody where there was like working [TS]

  spaces it was just like rows and rows of [TS]

  desks it was interesting to me because [TS]

  everything was really cool and fancy and [TS]

  it looked lovely but when you look at [TS]

  the desks there's just nothing you can [TS]

  really do it always just looks not that [TS]

  nice [TS]

  yeah it's always just gonna be a [TS]

  computer and a flat surface like that's [TS]

  just what you're gonna have yeah and and [TS]

  it's just it seems funny to me so you [TS]

  can spend all this money and time and [TS]

  effort into like creating these great [TS]

  spaces but the actual places that you [TS]

  sit down and work there just rows of [TS]

  white desks like there's nothing you can [TS]

  do about it and it was just interesting [TS]

  to me to see it now hopefully when i [TS]

  visit San Francisco next I'm gonna go [TS]

  and take a look at the facebook office [TS]

  there and I'm interested to see what [TS]

  that one looks like as well yeah I would [TS]

  be very curious to see that on the [TS]

  inside as well yeah because i can [TS]

  imagine it's everything I saw last week [TS]

  turned up to eleven sure but i can't [TS]

  imagine you driving in an environment [TS]

  like that I just don't think I would be [TS]

  able to do good work in an environment [TS]

  like that i mean i would just have to be [TS]

  doing some kind of very different job in [TS]

  order to do work i saw a lot of people [TS]

  in kind of corners and things like that [TS]

  like on bean bags and stuff like it [TS]

  seemed like there were a lot of people [TS]

  that were like I can't work in these [TS]

  banks of desks [TS]

  mmm everyone seems really spread out [TS]

  even though there were all these desks [TS]

  and most of them are empty people were [TS]

  in other places [TS]

  yeah there have been let's just say [TS]

  there have been big open office [TS]

  environment that I have been in where I [TS]

  have noticed the same phenomenon like [TS]

  there are tons of desks there's clearly [TS]

  personal items on all of these desks and [TS]

  as far as i can tell every available [TS]

  space that is not a desk is the space [TS]

  that people are actually using to do [TS]

  work like if they can get away from [TS]

  their desk they are going to and I'm [TS]

  like well isn't that interesting [TS]

  maybe you company we might want to take [TS]

  note of this [TS]

  it's like if you if you have other [TS]

  spaces for people to work they will work [TS]

  there they will not work [TS]

  their infinite rows of white desks with [TS]

  computers in front of them just like [TS]

  just the thing to note companies just [TS]

  saying so that the plan the plan Mike [TS]

  with this office is that I'm going to be [TS]

  writing here and so for the moment what [TS]

  I'm doing is I am trying to treat this [TS]

  very much as like a holy like a [TS]

  sacrosanct place like I'm taking it very [TS]

  very seriously the idea that you go here [TS]

  you're only going to do one thing which [TS]

  is pacing and writing and when you're [TS]

  not doing that you're going to leave so [TS]

  this this feeds back into what we were [TS]

  talking about on previous episodes that [TS]

  i am trying to teach my own brain to [TS]

  train my own brain like this is the [TS]

  thing that happens in this room [TS]

  nothing else happens in this room we [TS]

  don't do emails here we don't look at [TS]

  read it here we don't do anything else [TS]

  which is part of the very reason why I [TS]

  didn't even want chairs in the room like [TS]

  I don't want the option to sit down [TS]

  because if I need to sit down i can do [TS]

  that plenty of other places so that's [TS]

  what I'm I'm trying to establish this [TS]

  and I'm trying to build little little [TS]

  routines like when I'm walking towards [TS]

  this office there's a there's a certain [TS]

  landmark that I pass was like when I [TS]

  passed that landmark if I'm listening to [TS]

  music or podcasts or anything like it [TS]

  has to go off like we have to get ready [TS]

  as we're approaching this place to start [TS]

  doing the work and like all the stuff i [TS]

  thinks like it sounds kind of crazy but [TS]

  I'm just I'm trying to be super strict [TS]

  about it in the same way that like I was [TS]

  really aware that in that Amsterdam trip [TS]

  it was very easy to feel like I'm being [TS]

  very serious about this and kind of [TS]

  taking away my own decision-making [TS]

  ability now whether or not this works is [TS]

  a question that i will only have the [TS]

  answer to six weeks from now so we'll [TS]

  have to see in the future like does this [TS]

  work because if it's just another office [TS]

  space then it doesn't make sense for me [TS]

  to continue to rent it but i am i'm [TS]

  trying to be very very sacrosanct about [TS]

  this little writing monastery that I [TS]

  have [TS]

  of at least for the time being so we'll [TS]

  have to check in later and see how it [TS]

  goes [TS]

  are you just writing no research in that [TS]

  the short answer is yes the slightly [TS]

  longer answer is that I do let myself [TS]

  take a look at if I have some stuff in [TS]

  say Evernote or do you have some notes [TS]

  files that i like to access sometimes [TS]

  when I'm writing but i am not allowing [TS]

  myself to go out on the internet on like [TS]

  a fun fact finding mission right because [TS]

  that can just end up taking forever and [TS]

  it's not the same kind of thing like as [TS]

  I have to discuss before the bottleneck [TS]

  for me is the writing process and like [TS]

  anything I can do to get more high [TS]

  quality writing out in a month is good [TS]

  and so like that is what will make this [TS]

  office makes sense and again so far just [TS]

  for the first you know four days that [TS]

  I've had it when it's super easy but [TS]

  it's been great like I get up early in [TS]

  the morning I walk right out that goes [TS]

  straight to the office and I just start [TS]

  writing immediately and it's like this [TS]

  is what i need there's nothing in the [TS]

  morning to interrupt like there's [TS]

  nothing to go wrong i'm just going to [TS]

  wake up and walk right to this place and [TS]

  just try not even to think about it so [TS]

  so far so good but it is over the long [TS]

  haul that really that really matters [TS]

  because what i was going to say is why [TS]

  don't you just not connect to the Wi-Fi [TS]

  at the office on ipad i already had a [TS]

  little conversation with the [TS]

  receptionist at the front desk where [TS]

  like I will sign you up for your far for [TS]

  our telephone internet package and I had [TS]

  to explain to them no i don't i don't [TS]

  want your telephone or internet package [TS]

  and then that was one of the many ways [TS]

  in which i draw attention to myself when [TS]

  I'm really just this is what I'm saying [TS]

  right you don't want connection to the [TS]

  outside world you move your furniture [TS]

  you took down the picture and you place [TS]

  under Moses people must think you're [TS]

  like okay evil or crazy but let's just [TS]

  say like the I don't want the internet [TS]

  was just one in a sequence of things [TS]

  that I was like I really don't want to [TS]

  be drawing attention to myself but [TS]

  literally everything I'm doing is [TS]

  drawing attention to myself like I just [TS]

  want to move in nice and anonymously [TS]

  day one the manager comes in at the end [TS]

  of the day to see how I'm doing and he [TS]

  takes one look at the place and he goes [TS]

  what are you doing in here like if it's [TS]

  at this point at this point I like I [TS]

  pulled up part of the false floor to get [TS]

  at some of the wiring because i wanted [TS]

  to hide the telephone wires that were [TS]

  coming like I don't need to see these [TS]

  wires like I just want to put them back [TS]

  under the false floor like I don't need [TS]

  beautiful hi it's it's just it wasn't uh [TS]

  it's like I just want to be anonymous [TS]

  please don't walk in here right now like [TS]

  just I'm just gonna come in and i'm just [TS]

  going to leave and I'm going to talk to [TS]

  nobody like you never have to worry [TS]

  about my office people like I'm just [TS]

  here doing my own thing playing my [TS]

  Thunder noises [TS]

  this episode of cortex is also brought [TS]

  to you by however quite simply hover is [TS]

  the best way to buy and manage domain [TS]

  names [TS]

  it's my place of choice and has been for [TS]

  years it's the first place I think of to [TS]

  go when I have an idea for a new project [TS]

  and in fact just yesterday I bought two [TS]

  new domain names with hover for projects [TS]

  that i am thinking about under the [TS]

  hashtag year of less brackets me I might [TS]

  not do anything with them for a very [TS]

  long time I might not do anything with [TS]

  them ever i don't know we'll have to see [TS]

  what ends up happening but what I do [TS]

  know is that i came up with two great [TS]

  names that I really wanted to grab and [TS]

  so the first thing I did was I went to [TS]

  hover check that they were available [TS]

  indeed they work which is always [TS]

  exciting and I got them immediately and [TS]

  what I like with hover is that when you [TS]

  want to grab that domain name you never [TS]

  know there might be somebody else in the [TS]

  world at this very moment also trying to [TS]

  get a domain name but if they are using [TS]

  one of the other registrar's it's going [TS]

  to take them a long time to do it with [TS]

  hover you can get that domain in seconds [TS]

  it's just simple it's clean it's [TS]

  straightforward you know what you want [TS]

  with whoever you want a domain name and [TS]

  they let you get it easy-peasy while [TS]

  they have all of the domain names you [TS]

  would expect they also have just tons of [TS]

  the little ones and the funny ones like [TS]

  dot coffee and dot limos and all the [TS]

  weird things that are there the domains [TS]

  i registered happened to be one of the [TS]

  smaller domain names so it's nice to be [TS]

  able to do that just through however [TS]

  they have whois privacy for free so that [TS]

  you can keep your private details [TS]

  private there's a hover valet service [TS]

  where if you're using an inferior [TS]

  registrar you can get everything just [TS]

  moved over to hover automatically in a [TS]

  way that you just don't have to care [TS]

  about hover will take care of it all for [TS]

  you and they have a new feature called [TS]

  hover connect which makes it easier than [TS]

  ever to get your domain name connected [TS]

  with a website so if you have bought a [TS]

  domain name and you want [TS]

  you connect it to some other service [TS]

  like you want to make your tumblr blog [TS]

  use the domain name or whatever you can [TS]

  just have hover use that automatically [TS]

  for you have everything connected up [TS]

  behind the scenes it's great it's simple [TS]

  so right now go to hover dot-com and use [TS]

  the code creativity at checkout and [TS]

  you'll get ten percent off your purchase [TS]

  at hover and show your support for [TS]

  cortex and all of real afm there's tons [TS]

  of stuff that however has I only talked [TS]

  about a little bit of it but they're [TS]

  what i always use to register my doing [TS]

  names so thanks to hover for supporting [TS]

  the show is probably the first time this [TS]

  has happened in between our two episodes [TS]

  you release to youtube videos [TS]

  oh yeah I did what happened yeah [TS]

  amsterdam happened yeah partly that [TS]

  that's actually that's actually no joke [TS]

  like a i was able to move both videos [TS]

  forward quite a lot during that period [TS]

  of time and it just happened to work out [TS]

  that they were both finishing up around [TS]

  the same time and you know me if I have [TS]

  something done [TS]

  I just want to release it so they were [TS]

  finished a week apart so I released the [TS]

  week apart [TS]

  that was the video this the second part [TS]

  to the America box video right which I i [TS]

  really liked that video I have to say [TS]

  I've seen that video now about four or [TS]

  five times for various reasons no [TS]

  excellent let's get that you count up [TS]

  yep might be one of my favorite videos [TS]

  appeals interesting it's interesting you [TS]

  say that because i'm not sure i think [TS]

  that the the section which is the very [TS]

  end of that video the zebra section like [TS]

  zebras vs horses I think that might be [TS]

  the best thing i have written to date [TS]

  that particular section [TS]

  yeah sure i'm not sure if this is like [TS]

  my favorite video that I've ever made I [TS]

  wouldn't say that I still think humans [TS]

  not applies my favorite thing that I [TS]

  have done but that little section about [TS]

  like horse herds hierarchy and like all [TS]

  the zebra stuff like I think that just [TS]

  came out amazingly and without a doubt [TS]

  that was all done in Amsterdam [TS]

  embarrassingly my favorite line from the [TS]

  video which nobody appreciated but I [TS]

  just loved was at the line about 40 is [TS]

  there's no such thing as society when i [TS]

  came up with that in Amsterdam I [TS]

  literally did like a little fist pump to [TS]

  myself in the hotel room I was like [TS]

  that's gold like I love this that's [TS]

  amazing right [TS]

  I was super excited about that like [TS]

  nobody commented on that locking [TS]

  absolutely nobody you know because that [TS]

  wasn't the goals of the video man could [TS]

  always hot chicken [TS]

  everybody loved top chicken and nobody [TS]

  loved my for zebras there's no such [TS]

  thing as society like to give you go [TS]

  back and you watch that video you can [TS]

  hear me really sell there's no such [TS]

  thing as society in the reading but like [TS]

  nobody cared [TS]

  this is where you just never know what [TS]

  people reacted that delivery of top [TS]

  check-in that's what know we're top [TS]

  chicken and it zooms in on the great [TS]

  phase perfect so that that's why i think [TS]

  i liked this video is there were lots of [TS]

  little all flourishes in the delivery [TS]

  and the animation that I really enjoy i [TS]

  spoke about these on the show before the [TS]

  things that i really like like the [TS]

  visual jokes that tie up with something [TS]

  that you're saying and there were a lot [TS]

  of those types of things in there like [TS]

  the way that the llamas were jumping out [TS]

  of the pan and a lot of the stock [TS]

  footage that you used really tied up [TS]

  very nicely i had right there are just [TS]

  lots and lots of little parts of that [TS]

  video that i really enjoyed and the more [TS]

  I watch this is quite a complex one [TS]

  the more the more times i watched it the [TS]

  more times i understood what was going [TS]

  on and also enjoy it a lot of the little [TS]

  details [TS]

  yeah i have to say that 1 i'm i'm pretty [TS]

  pleased with I probably haven't been as [TS]

  pleased with the release since the [TS]

  netherlands video i did I mean many [TS]

  years ago now where the netherlands one [TS]

  was the first video I made when I felt [TS]

  like this was just smooth sailing from [TS]

  start to finish like I had an idea and [TS]

  it came out pretty much exactly the way [TS]

  I wanted and and this one [TS]

  it wasn't smooth like that but it is [TS]

  most of the time when i'm releasing a [TS]

  video I feel like oh thank god like this [TS]

  is over and it's done and I can just put [TS]

  it up online and i will probably never [TS]

  watch it again because I kind of cringe [TS]

  about it but this one I was [TS]

  the ones like oh no this is this is [TS]

  great like I'm pretty happy with the way [TS]

  it came out like it worked out well in [TS]

  the end and so its up and I'm it's like [TS]

  I'm up was much more like a happy day [TS]

  like oh well Paul releases to the world [TS]

  and then also people stop yelling at me [TS]

  for the second part of the America box [TS]

  video which I was getting a lot of on [TS]

  twitter i cannot believe that you get [TS]

  out as quickly as you did you never know [TS]

  with me you never know what's going to I [TS]

  was expecting at least two more videos [TS]

  before part 2 like to keep people [TS]

  guessing you know I keep them on their [TS]

  toes and then he released the Star Trek [TS]

  transporter video [TS]

  yep which i know is when you've been [TS]

  working on for a very long time [TS]

  yeah really long time that one's been in [TS]

  the been in the books these two videos [TS]

  are actually quite similar to me in some [TS]

  ways because both of them are are not so [TS]

  reliant on my drawing anything like the [TS]

  America box part two is largely stock [TS]

  footage and then the star trek video is [TS]

  entirely the artwork of Knut who I [TS]

  worked with on several projects before [TS]

  including the Lord of the Rings videos [TS]

  and the single transferable vote video [TS]

  so both of these have a very very [TS]

  different style but I I wanted to look [TS]

  to today and think like a when did I [TS]

  really get started on the star trek [TS]

  video and I went back into the slack [TS]

  that i use for people that I work with [TS]

  and I got the first concept drawings [TS]

  from Knut on october 11 for the star [TS]

  trek video was the very first time I had [TS]

  approached him and I asked i want to do [TS]

  something on Star Trek give me a couple [TS]

  of visual styles and he dropped [TS]

  something in the slack [TS]

  I mean what is that now like four months [TS]

  ago thats lot long time ago from from [TS]

  the current day so these things are in [TS]

  in progress for quite a while so I mean [TS]

  this answers one of the questions that I [TS]

  had which is would you consider doing [TS]

  more videos in this style because this [TS]

  animation are my word is so fat [TS]

  it's just superb yeah can do does an [TS]

  amazing job without a doubt i mean [TS]

  that's that's why I like working with [TS]

  his depiction of you i love i love it [TS]

  you know like just that [TS]

  the giving that character more life and [TS]

  making it more human [TS]

  it's not an easy task to take something [TS]

  that is a stick figure and then say how [TS]

  are we going to represent this in a more [TS]

  fully fleshed-out way while still [TS]

  keeping what is recognizable about it [TS]

  but he totally succeeded I gave him more [TS]

  so than that taking something that is [TS]

  iconic in its own way linked into the [TS]

  people that are familiar with you and [TS]

  like your work the the way that you [TS]

  portray your character in the video is a [TS]

  massive part of it and he really evolved [TS]

  that character who are just excellently [TS]

  I i think it's fantastic that like the [TS]

  life that he brought to it like one of [TS]

  my favorite parts is when you're crying [TS]

  on sofa like in the fetal position and [TS]

  it's like that is such a great depiction [TS]

  yeah I just thought the whole thing was [TS]

  was fantastic [TS]

  that right there is a great example of [TS]

  like okay so people wanted to like a [TS]

  white is uses different artwork like why [TS]

  didn't you do it yourself in your own [TS]

  stick figures for both the star trek [TS]

  video and for the domestication video [TS]

  they they had the same thing in common [TS]

  of man if I was going to sit down and [TS]

  actually try to draw out these videos in [TS]

  some way there are many parts where one [TS]

  I just simply wouldn't have the artistic [TS]

  ability to do so and to where both of [TS]

  these things just require a level of [TS]

  detail that you could not do in stick [TS]

  figures right it's it is just simply not [TS]

  possible and this is the same reason why [TS]

  I went to commute to do the Lord of the [TS]

  Rings video because when I was going [TS]

  through that when I thought like oh let [TS]

  me do with a video about Lord of the [TS]

  Rings I want to talk about tents and [TS]

  elves and Men and hobbits and all the [TS]

  stuff and I realized really quickly like [TS]

  you know what you can do this with stick [TS]

  figures man like it just there's not [TS]

  enough that looks visually different and [TS]

  so once again for the star trek one when [TS]

  I was thinking about doing this it was [TS]

  that it was the same thing all over [TS]

  again [TS]

  I was originally going to have much more [TS]

  of the crew and talk about specific [TS]

  examples like that's how it began as [TS]

  like I can't draw stick figures that are [TS]

  obviously the different captain's like [TS]

  that's just not possible to do in my [TS]

  usual style so it's like I have to bring [TS]

  on someone to to do this and so that's [TS]

  that's what are some of the original [TS]

  concept artwork was I had commute giving [TS]

  me like various characters like how [TS]

  would they look what know what are we [TS]

  going to have this look like on screen [TS]

  because there's no way i can adequately [TS]

  with stick figures have to Rikers and [TS]

  just as the as the project went on I [TS]

  eventually realized like oh I i liked [TS]

  this artwork so much that can I came to [TS]

  an agreement where he was going to just [TS]

  do all of it like we're just going to [TS]

  make this one hundred percent your [TS]

  artwork up on the screen and I think it [TS]

  came out really well if it did I loved [TS]

  it like that the the actual topic i'm [TS]

  not a star trek guy em but you know I [TS]

  understand enough about I've seen the [TS]

  movies who but for me it wasn't really [TS]

  about the topic [TS]

  it just all its design and just the way [TS]

  that everything looked it really really [TS]

  made it work it really worked in a [TS]

  different way to to how your videos [TS]

  normally do it was very different very [TS]

  refreshing I think and I i really [TS]

  enjoyed it i wish that they could be [TS]

  more like it but I know how hard it is [TS]

  to do you know yeah well i mean this is [TS]

  this is one of these things because when [TS]

  eventually came to the conclusion of [TS]

  like oh I can have someone else do all [TS]

  of the artwork instead of trying to [TS]

  think of mixing this with my regular [TS]

  style and and his drawings it's like [TS]

  I'll let me just entirely have someone [TS]

  else do this [TS]

  my initial thought was like oh well this [TS]

  is going to be a huge time-saver isn't [TS]

  it like that the NFL is like no it's not [TS]

  actually here's time-saver there is the [TS]

  potential for it and and the reason that [TS]

  I think that is looking up mining your [TS]

  working relationship and how that's [TS]

  developed because we collaborate on this [TS]

  project and overtime arm we've learned [TS]

  each of his preferences in the way that [TS]

  things should [TS]

  done like I think that if you willing to [TS]

  put the time and effort into it could be [TS]

  possible that somebody could do the work [TS]

  for you [TS]

  I especially if you know the thing that [TS]

  your best and the thing to the longest [TS]

  is the writing you know then you could [TS]

  focus completely on that and have [TS]

  somebody else help you out with the [TS]

  artwork so we're thinking about this is [TS]

  like okay the way that I was currently [TS]

  working was we were going back and forth [TS]

  about the art you know he was sending me [TS]

  stuff almost all of which was like it's [TS]

  amazing do more other we like have a [TS]

  back-and-forth about how things should [TS]

  be represented and and and the rest of [TS]

  this and ultimately in the end what I [TS]

  got from Knut was about a hundred [TS]

  drawings vector drawings for the various [TS]

  scenes but even then the the additional [TS]

  thing which takes up a huge amount of [TS]

  time is that he is not the animator i am [TS]

  still the animator and so even though i [TS]

  have these drawings because they're [TS]

  vectors each drawing can be broken down [TS]

  into the various elements and then I am [TS]

  animating the various elements so [TS]

  anytime something moves on the screen [TS]

  anytime something fades into fades out [TS]

  or has a wobbly effect or whatever like [TS]

  i am doing all of that and so what I [TS]

  have sent you that you can see it will [TS]

  be in the show notes for the listeners [TS]

  is what the video looks like on my end [TS]

  to animate when i'm working within Final [TS]

  Cut Pro and so while I start with a [TS]

  hundred drawings in the end there are [TS]

  probably somewhere between you know [TS]

  maybe 200 to 400 animation elements of [TS]

  where I'm saying okay this transition [TS]

  happens now this special effect comes on [TS]

  screen this image transitions into this [TS]

  other image this guy moves from point X [TS]

  to point B hears a sound effect that is [TS]

  going to play underneath what's going on [TS]

  the screen so even though all of the [TS]

  artwork was done I was shocked by how [TS]

  much animation work there was still to [TS]

  do [TS]

  even after this point so if if I was [TS]

  ever to try to complete [TS]

  we outsource all of this is like I would [TS]

  need an additional person to be the [TS]

  animation person like it's it can't just [TS]

  be the artwork because it's a bit [TS]

  surprising you think like boy a hundred [TS]

  images it sounds like a lot but if you [TS]

  just have the images on the screen over [TS]

  the course of four minutes like it's not [TS]

  actually nearly enough action that [TS]

  that's taking place like you need to [TS]

  have more going on to keep it [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  hence all of all of the motion or all of [TS]

  the transitions are all of the effects a [TS]

  little later on in a moment we're going [TS]

  to be talking about creativity and [TS]

  focuses on pixel which is a movie studio [TS]

  and animation studio it's like you would [TS]

  need to and it's not impossible to do [TS]

  this have like a mini version of that [TS]

  right so like you would come up with the [TS]

  story you would maybe do some [TS]

  storyboards and then have an animate [TS]

  have like an artist and animator put [TS]

  them together for you [TS]

  yeah well well there is a world in which [TS]

  that could be the same person as well [TS]

  yeah there is a world in which that [TS]

  could be the the same person it's the [TS]

  thing is always difficult to find people [TS]

  talented in one area let alone two areas [TS]

  show so I trying to find someone who is [TS]

  an amazing illustrator and who also is [TS]

  great at doing animation work in Final [TS]

  Cut Pro like that's a whole different as [TS]

  a whole different thing which is why I [TS]

  just like I'm i would say i would be [TS]

  looking for someone who is good at [TS]

  animating which is a different skill [TS]

  yeah but of course I I am never under [TS]

  the illusion that like I am somehow like [TS]

  a magic person who is doing on [TS]

  replicable work like most of the people [TS]

  i know are working with teams like it's [TS]

  it's interesting and weird that like [TS]

  that there are I know very few YouTube [TS]

  people who don't have teams around them [TS]

  at this point like I am I am one of the [TS]

  the very few people i know who is [TS]

  genuinely a 1-1 person youtube operation [TS]

  at this scale [TS]

  yeah who doesn't have employees like [TS]

  permanent full-time employees so it is [TS]

  an interesting position but it's just as [TS]

  with many of these things like I can [TS]

  because I had never had [TS]

  this much artwork done before i had i [TS]

  had falsely assume like oh this is gonna [TS]

  be super easy to put together and like [TS]

  you know if it's still it is still not [TS]

  easy and so like if you wanted to ever [TS]

  outsource it like you need one more [TS]

  person to to help with this I would bet [TS]

  the it still took up less of your time [TS]

  in the aggregate but it may be didn't [TS]

  feel that way [TS]

  the question is did it take less time [TS]

  than it takes me to animate an average [TS]

  video the answer to that is no like it [TS]

  took the same number of days plus the [TS]

  back-and-forth with canoed spread out [TS]

  over a couple of months like there's no [TS]

  there's no way that it took me less time [TS]

  but but the real question is if i didn't [TS]

  have the artwork done and I attempted to [TS]

  do this all on my own [TS]

  that would have taken me months and [TS]

  months of work so there is a way in [TS]

  which this saved me a huge amount of [TS]

  time in the in the same way that like [TS]

  getting all the stock video for the [TS]

  domestication video like if I tried to [TS]

  animate that that would have been months [TS]

  and months of work instead of four days [TS]

  of animating so like I there's a sense [TS]

  in which I saved a lot of time [TS]

  sure but not like actual number of hours [TS]

  out of my working schedule like it's a [TS]

  slightly different question you know i [TS]

  love your work but it doesn't you [TS]

  couldn't have done this now of course [TS]

  not you don't have no skill whatsoever [TS]

  like you couldn't even closer now you [TS]

  wouldn't be able to do it and I'm [TS]

  looking at it now [TS]

  one week 1.4 million views yeah pretty [TS]

  good maybe it was worth it i think like [TS]

  that i have to have the right topic in [TS]

  mind for this kind of style [TS]

  I i don't think i don't think that i [TS]

  could just generally say like I'm always [TS]

  going to do videos with all of this [TS]

  artwork like if I'm ever doing something [TS]

  that has anything to do with countries i [TS]

  always want to use the country girls [TS]

  that I have like I just I love the way [TS]

  that looks [TS]

  I think that's a real signature style at [TS]

  this point like I'm always [TS]

  going to want to do anything that has to [TS]

  do with countries using those particular [TS]

  stick figures come but i can but like [TS]

  you can see the commonality between the [TS]

  star trek video and the Lord of the [TS]

  Rings video is is both of them it's like [TS]

  there's more detail than can possibly be [TS]

  represented with stick figures and so if [TS]

  i come to that situation again if [TS]

  there's a topic that I'm working on [TS]

  where that feels like if the case i will [TS]

  definitely definitely think about doing [TS]

  it again sir i miss any I haven't got a [TS]

  name for him but I'll miss that little [TS]

  cgpgrey maybe he'll come back someday [TS]

  sir i would like to also thank a glue [TS]

  for helping support this week's episode [TS]

  igloo make the internet you'll actually [TS]

  like what does that mean well it means [TS]

  that you have the tools to create an [TS]

  internet that looks and works the way [TS]

  you want it looks and works the way that [TS]

  you're used to with the way that you're [TS]

  used to using the internet rather than [TS]

  looking at something which looks like it [TS]

  was built in the nineties by somebody [TS]

  who obviously couldn't see into the [TS]

  future and had no idea how we'd be using [TS]

  our computers like for example now we're [TS]

  able to do work wherever we want with [TS]

  our phones and tablets and laptops equal [TS]

  works on all of them [TS]

  it has responsive design so it's gonna [TS]

  work everywhere you can do everything [TS]

  you can manage your task list from your [TS]

  iphone you can manage your projects and [TS]

  speak to your colleagues from your [TS]

  android tablet it doesn't matter what [TS]

  device you're using if it can connect to [TS]

  the internet you can use igloo talking [TS]

  about design you're able to customize it [TS]

  give it the look and theme and colors of [TS]

  your company so it feels right at home [TS]

  in your organization also able to turn [TS]

  on and off different pieces of [TS]

  functionality for different members of [TS]

  your teams so you can give them just the [TS]

  tools that they need you can share files [TS]

  of your co-workers for you all to [TS]

  collaborate on you can track who's read [TS]

  documents of read receipts this is super [TS]

  useful for making sure that everybody [TS]

  has seen an important document that must [TS]

  go around the company you can also [TS]

  integrate with services that box Google [TS]

  Drive and Dropbox so people have access [TS]

  to all of their files wherever they need [TS]

  them wherever they are [TS]

  it was secured of 256 bit encryption [TS]

  single sign-on and has active directory [TS]

  integration as well so it's going to [TS]

  integrate perfectly into your [TS]

  organization the best thing about a glue [TS]

  is [TS]

  you can try it for free with any team up [TS]

  to 10 people for as long as you want [TS]

  so you can make sure that is right for [TS]

  your team in your organization time to [TS]

  break away from an internet you hate [TS]

  sign up now [TS]

  english / cortex thank you [TS]

  so much to eat glue for their continued [TS]

  support of this show and all of real FM [TS]

  alright so the second cortex business [TS]

  book club is now in session [TS]

  it's time it's time so we read [TS]

  creativity inc [TS]

  yes you pick this book this time this is [TS]

  a book that I've wanted to read for some [TS]

  time but never got around to it but then [TS]

  when it came to be my turn to pick a [TS]

  book after the tragedy of the e-myth [TS]

  revisited i decided to go for a book [TS]

  that i really enjoyed the thought of I'm [TS]

  a big pics off an lu so I was very [TS]

  intrigued to to read this so I did [TS]

  listen to the audiobook unabridged [TS]

  audiobook it was much longer then met [TS]

  like twice the size i think but I got [TS]

  through it all in like a week and a half [TS]

  it's like 12 hours and audio book form [TS]

  yeah something like that [TS]

  looking through my notes I originally [TS]

  read this back in November 2014 [TS]

  according to all of my kindle highlights [TS]

  back when I was still reading books on [TS]

  kindle with their appalling topography [TS]

  and so I hadn't read it since then and I [TS]

  also I relisten to probably about eighty [TS]

  percent of the book this week on [TS]

  audiobook and then I sort of skimmed the [TS]

  last few chapters as well so i reread it [TS]

  recently although you may have some more [TS]

  detail towards the end then i do and i [TS]

  also have all of my notes from last time [TS]

  it's a funny experience to read a book [TS]

  like this because I'm listening to an [TS]

  audiobook and i think i read it the [TS]

  first time right but I'm listening to an [TS]

  audiobook now I'll hear the office say [TS]

  something like oh that's an excellent [TS]

  point so i opened up my kindle app to [TS]

  highlight that section and I was like [TS]

  all right two years ago me thought the [TS]

  same thing and highlighted exactly the [TS]

  past the child going to highlight [TS]

  it's a funny experience like a look at [TS]

  me and passed me agreeing on what is an [TS]

  interesting point but also clever me yes [TS]

  me recap don't we agree on the [TS]

  importance of this passage so small [TS]

  yes but so tell me Mike you as this this [TS]

  is your first experience with creativity [TS]

  inc [TS]

  what did you think of the book it wasn't [TS]

  completely what I expected then and very [TS]

  different to other books that I've read [TS]

  like this because it was a lot more [TS]

  biographical em at kenmore tells his [TS]

  story and through telling his story hits [TS]

  upon some other things that have been [TS]

  important in helping him build and [TS]

  manage and run Pixar and now Disney [TS]

  Animation em so it was unexpected but I [TS]

  think I enjoyed it more because of that [TS]

  I like biographies of people that are [TS]

  interesting for people that I respect [TS]

  and while side of only known a little [TS]

  bit about it kept more from from other [TS]

  books mainly apple books because there's [TS]

  obviously a big crossover right right I [TS]

  respect the company so much that he was [TS]

  basically it's kind of like the [TS]

  biography of him and pixar together [TS]

  yeah without a doubt yeah there's a ton [TS]

  of of early pixar stuff in this and also [TS]

  like where where there's end cap will [TS]

  come from how did he end up to be in [TS]

  this situation and also there's a lot of [TS]

  steve jobs related stuff in this [TS]

  especially the afterward that whole [TS]

  section is basically ad cap more telling [TS]

  his story of Steve and why the stories [TS]

  that have been out and circulated on [TS]

  about our the full picture of the man [TS]

  whose fascinating parts got nothing to [TS]

  do with the creativity part which is why [TS]

  it's right at the end it was a good [TS]

  place to put it but I could tell like [TS]

  from him like I need to tell this story [TS]

  because i hate whatever [TS]

  because i hate whatever [TS]

  I'm saying yeah it was it was a total [TS]

  total non sequitur to the rest of the [TS]

  book but like this is the most logical [TS]

  place to put this this section about [TS]

  what is what is his impression of steve [TS]

  jobs so in a similar way to how we went [TS]

  through the last one I'll kind of go [TS]

  through my notes that kind of follows [TS]

  the book chronologically even one of my [TS]

  favorite things and time back into the [TS]

  biographical part is that this book is [TS]

  about a man who had a dream who achieved [TS]

  it [TS]

  mhm right the idea of wanting to make a [TS]

  computer animated movie when he started [TS]

  out it was impossible that you couldn't [TS]

  do it but he wanted to do it and then [TS]

  did it and I love those kind of stories [TS]

  because i think that there is something [TS]

  nice in knowing that people achieve [TS]

  their dreams if with the right amount of [TS]

  work and effort i think that is a good [TS]

  story I think it's possible you know I [TS]

  think that mean you've both done that to [TS]

  certain degrees i expect quite a lot of [TS]

  people listen to the show how people [TS]

  that have creative work at usually tends [TS]

  to be part of a dream or a long-term [TS]

  goal and I also as you know probably [TS]

  quite a lot of people listen to show [TS]

  that have one they're trying to achieve [TS]

  so I think it's always good to hear [TS]

  these stories of people that have [TS]

  something that they want to do and then [TS]

  go out and do it [TS]

  so this is a good one for that as well [TS]

  as a lot of the lessons that that tries [TS]

  to teach ya i can agree with that and [TS]

  this is this is a time to just interject [TS]

  in a sense a lot of people after our [TS]

  last book club episode wanted to know [TS]

  like why the hell i would read a book [TS]

  like that like the e-myth revisited and [TS]

  why would read these business books even [TS]

  though people often hear that i don't [TS]

  have always great things to say about [TS]

  them but I i think this falls into the [TS]

  category of like when you are reading [TS]

  you are shaping your own mind and you [TS]

  are shaping like the kind of person that [TS]

  you can possibly be and this falls into [TS]

  the category of like if you want to do [TS]

  something different it is useful to read [TS]

  out people who have done things [TS]

  differently or wet like whether or not [TS]

  the particulars of their situation [TS]

  exactly matters for your situation is [TS]

  not relevant [TS]

  it's it's a case of like showing your [TS]

  brain like oh ok here's the story of [TS]

  this person and how he went to achieve [TS]

  an unusual thing and like here here is [TS]

  the way he did this and look brain like [TS]

  this is the thing to think about like [TS]

  I'm going to keep exposing you to this [TS]

  idea over and over again like people can [TS]

  achieve things and they can they can [TS]

  reach their goals and like here's how [TS]

  here's how this person has done it [TS]

  here's how maybe that person has done it [TS]

  and you brain like pick from that what [TS]

  you think is useful but just be aware [TS]

  that like it's on it's almost like you [TS]

  want to create for your own single brain [TS]

  like a culture of success right like [TS]

  think things can happen well brain and [TS]

  just be aware of that and that's why I [TS]

  think these things are useful to read [TS]

  and why I've been reading them for you [TS]

  know many years at this stage camel [TS]

  himself is also pretty critical of [TS]

  business books which I like and and [TS]

  multiple points in the the the book [TS]

  talks about why a lot of these types of [TS]

  books a pointless right i really like it [TS]

  just addresses it and he's like look a [TS]

  lot of these things don't really help [TS]

  people they're full of empty lessons and [TS]

  like even at the end he kind of distills [TS]

  a lot of things that he believes in two [TS]

  simple sentences and he's like these are [TS]

  statements that are true they are what i [TS]

  think of as talking points and places to [TS]

  go from so let's look at all of these [TS]

  lessons these takeaways they will be [TS]

  caught in other types of books has food [TS]

  for thought rather than just like [TS]

  lessons i'm trying to teach you and I [TS]

  quite like that approach i agree that [TS]

  that perhaps one of the values of this [TS]

  is not so much him telling you here's [TS]

  the way to do it as opposed to him [TS]

  describing lots of the other people he [TS]

  works with and how they think about [TS]

  things [TS]

  x and it's it's a bit of a like when you [TS]

  are reading it he just like throwing a [TS]

  whole bunch of stuff at your brain and [TS]

  maybe some of it will stick and some of [TS]

  it won't but you know he talks about [TS]

  like oh here's how is how Brad Bird [TS]

  things about making a movie like this is [TS]

  not how I think about making a movie I [TS]

  think brad bird is wrong but he made the [TS]

  incredibles right so like you take from [TS]

  that what you want and then it goes to a [TS]

  bunch of the other directors and talks [TS]

  about like here's how this person thinks [TS]

  about it here's how that person thinks [TS]

  about it and you know it's like some of [TS]

  them think about like they're on an [TS]

  archaeological expedition and they're [TS]

  uncovering things and others imagine it [TS]

  as though they are building a structure [TS]

  brick by brick and he's just he's just [TS]

  going through how other creative people [TS]

  he works with think about their own work [TS]

  and like maybe some of that will [TS]

  resonate with you and maybe some of it [TS]

  won't but the book is not super [TS]

  prescriptive it's he doesn't have like a [TS]

  one-two-three punch for here's here's [TS]

  exactly what you need to do that I've [TS]

  kind of recorded in that vein few of [TS]

  things that spoke to me of what he had [TS]

  instituted pics rm1 of the clear themes [TS]

  that runs through this book is the idea [TS]

  of giving creative people autonomy to [TS]

  create who like provide them with the [TS]

  resources that they need [TS]

  don't try and box them in and let them [TS]

  see what they can do and that's such an [TS]

  interesting thing to me a lot of what [TS]

  I'm going to be basing my thoughts on is [TS]

  the companies that I've worked in and [TS]

  how different they are to the way that [TS]

  capital describes how he builds his [TS]

  company and the idea of kind of like it [TS]

  a lot of this they could give people [TS]

  challenges see how they do with them you [TS]

  know he talks about hiring good teams [TS]

  and giving them good work and you will [TS]

  get great stuff rather than hiring like [TS]

  mediocre people and giving them it [TS]

  thinks the work on you like you just not [TS]

  going to get the results out of them and [TS]

  and this is the lot of give people the [TS]

  autonomy that they need to allow the [TS]

  brains to work and come up with [TS]

  something interesting [TS]

  so I guess is right this is where I have [TS]

  to ask you as the company man of the of [TS]

  the podcast yeah [TS]

  this strikes you as different from the [TS]

  places that you're familiar with oh yeah [TS]

  yeah okay is it because like this is up [TS]

  my reading of the book i was much less [TS]

  charitable toward than the first time I [TS]

  read it again and this was one of the [TS]

  the the places where I kept thinking [TS]

  like ya da like but it's not like that [TS]

  he had like it's hard to find creative [TS]

  people and when you find good creative [TS]

  people let them do what they want to do [TS]

  it like like there were plenty of times [TS]

  when working with Knut whereas like I [TS]

  don't have specific instructions for you [TS]

  but like you just keep going like the [TS]

  whole reason i'm working with you is [TS]

  because you are talented like that's [TS]

  that's why we're here together right and [TS]

  like I trust you to do stuff so go like [TS]

  just just run with it man [TS]

  and so the other like when i was reading [TS]

  this I was feeling a bit like yeah of [TS]

  course a camera like what else would it [TS]

  be but it sounds like you know what else [TS]

  it would be so i was working in [TS]

  marketing right for the company that I [TS]

  worked for so I had a semi kind of [TS]

  creative role that we would help come up [TS]

  with the marketing campaigns along with [TS]

  external agencies that we hired that [TS]

  that totally counts as creative ya get [TS]

  any role in marketing counts as a [TS]

  creative field sure but I get very [TS]

  different what we want coming up with [TS]

  the campaign's we weren't like an [TS]

  internal agency or anything like them we [TS]

  would have agencies that will help us [TS]

  so you wouldn't like two levels of [TS]

  creativity here and there was a time [TS]

  where as i was leaving my company that [TS]

  another team somewhere had decided to 15 [TS]

  images that could be used in all [TS]

  marketing campaigns for the next six [TS]

  months like 15 stock images [TS]

  yeah and they said it may expand but [TS]

  this is like the set that you've got [TS]

  right now and you are asking two levels [TS]

  of creative people to work within this [TS]

  constraint that sounds pretty terrible [TS]

  yeah and I know people that work in our [TS]

  advertising agencies and this is a [TS]

  relatively similar thing that maybe like [TS]

  a so it might be the like the me and i [TS]

  know that i did this into our agencies i [TS]

  was like i gave them very prescriptive [TS]

  of guidelines of what i was looking for [TS]

  with some campaigns so even i would put [TS]

  a restriction on those great people [TS]

  mainly because I was being restricted in [TS]

  some way right its restrictions all the [TS]

  way down exactly and so this is what I'm [TS]

  you know there are places where they [TS]

  will not be the case but i know this is [TS]

  the case in a lot of areas it is for big [TS]

  company it is very rare for them to just [TS]

  do that you see it when he goes to [TS]

  disney later right [TS]

  yeah talks about how people that have [TS]

  never made movies gave mandatory notes [TS]

  and changes to the movies that they [TS]

  would see the other executives yeah that [TS]

  is terrible it is true you know so it's [TS]

  like it that shocked them one thing went [TS]

  in there of course it did because he [TS]

  thinks in a way which is not more there [TS]

  were many times in this book where I had [TS]

  to check myself because I Here Come will [TS]

  say something like he's lying [TS]

  there's no way they do that see that see [TS]

  that's very interesting it that's very [TS]

  interesting to hear you say that and I [TS]

  feel like I almost have to defer to your [TS]

  your opinion here looks like I need your [TS]

  opinion to supplant mine on this one [TS]

  right because there were so many times [TS]

  where i was reading this and I just [TS]

  because of my experience in the last few [TS]

  years and the people that I work with [TS]

  and like how I know other people run [TS]

  their team's I feel like isn't it [TS]

  obvious that if you have someone who is [TS]

  a creative person like you you let them [TS]

  run with stuff like who doesn't do that [TS]

  like what like oh wow I've got more like [TS]

  telling me the sky is blue but but it's [TS]

  that seems like i am in the wrong year [TS]

  and that i have a perspective which is [TS]

  like a tiny tiny minority of people [TS]

  working in creative fields out in the [TS]

  corporate world that this that PU you [TS]

  are coming from the decide where you [TS]

  think this is so unusual that you assume [TS]

  that the author must be lying because no [TS]

  one would run their business that way [TS]

  and I'm like duh man that anything is a [TS]

  view of mine which is obviously not the [TS]

  same for everyone but I just know that I [TS]

  went through this and I know other [TS]

  people that did like I worked with [TS]

  people who worked for other companies [TS]

  and it was the same and the i think part [TS]

  of the problem is there's always someone [TS]

  who thinks or does know better [TS]

  that's part of the problem right so it's [TS]

  like you're being told by someone this [TS]

  is how the campaign goes you know it's [TS]

  like I would consider myself as a [TS]

  creative and I would show the work to a [TS]

  product manager and then they would try [TS]

  and make changes to it and i would have [TS]

  to say that and no this is not what you [TS]

  do i was very difficult to work with and [TS]

  that but that's that's why you're here [TS]

  right now my boss really liked it and [TS]

  and it was always something that she [TS]

  brought to me to be like you stand up [TS]

  for yourself in a way that nobody else [TS]

  does [TS]

  just because I'm very minutes knows i'm [TS]

  just very principled if I believe in [TS]

  something it can be quite difficult to [TS]

  change my mind on it my mind can be [TS]

  changed but if I truly believe in [TS]

  something I will fight for and not a lot [TS]

  of people that were in my scenario did [TS]

  that is because I believed that what I [TS]

  was doing was creative work like I [TS]

  believe that that it shouldn't have just [TS]

  been prescriptive one of the reasons i [TS]

  left when i did because of the [TS]

  constrictions that were being put on [TS]

  people you know I why mention about like [TS]

  the very limited images that could be [TS]

  used right was like no I can't I can't [TS]

  do this [TS]

  this is lucas but also like it's [TS]

  interesting to hear about freedom that [TS]

  they have a Pixar and it seems like even [TS]

  in the animation world that is not a [TS]

  given that you get that I was just [TS]

  looking through my notes I think this is [TS]

  a section i highlighted here which I [TS]

  think summarizes a lot of his his points [TS]

  but he's talking about like changes that [TS]

  we made within Pixar and and basically [TS]

  he says here going forward the [TS]

  department's charter would be not to [TS]

  develop scripts but to hire good people [TS]

  to figure out what they needed to sign [TS]

  into projects and make sure they [TS]

  functioned well together [TS]

  I says we keep adjusting and fiddling [TS]

  with this model but the underlying gold [TS]

  today remains the same find develop and [TS]

  support good people and they in turn [TS]

  will find develop and own good ideas [TS]

  this actually goes right back to what we [TS]

  were just talking about if you bringing [TS]

  in people like canoe like he is talented [TS]

  and is good at what he does [TS]

  so you find people like [TS]

  that and give them the work to do and [TS]

  see what they come up with [TS]

  yeah but it's also like it's again this [TS]

  this to me is where I feel like my own [TS]

  opinion of the book is maybe not super [TS]

  relevant here but in my own field it [TS]

  seems like the kids because this this [TS]

  highlighted section that i have here [TS]

  comes after a long discussion about what [TS]

  matters like it's a good people there is [TS]

  a good ideas and he has a big [TS]

  description where he talked about like [TS]

  bringing this up in meetings and people [TS]

  are really split and that's the part [TS]

  where I felt like oh come on and cattle [TS]

  like people can't really be split over [TS]

  that like it's obvious that the people [TS]

  matter more than the ideas like know how [TS]

  you know one agrees yeah but the thing [TS]

  is like I I do recognize that i have [TS]

  some kind of bias on this but and and if [TS]

  I think about it I realized like perhaps [TS]

  the kind of compliment that I like the [TS]

  most on videos is when I see people [TS]

  leave comments where they'll say [TS]

  something like I would have expected [TS]

  that this topic is really boring or I [TS]

  thought that this would be really [TS]

  uninteresting but I like I really liked [TS]

  the video on this thing and I think [TS]

  maybe that's that's partly why I have [TS]

  this clear feeling of like it's not the [TS]

  topic that matters like I know lots of [TS]

  people who make videos on topics that [TS]

  you would think are boring but the way [TS]

  they make it is the thing that makes it [TS]

  interesting so it seems really obvious [TS]

  to me like of course people matter but [TS]

  then again if I think about it more I [TS]

  realize like all day long people want to [TS]

  pitch me on good ideas for videos to do [TS]

  and it feels like i know but is not the [TS]

  idea that matters like if the execution [TS]

  that matters so I wonder if this book [TS]

  made a real big impact on you the first [TS]

  time you read it because you have [TS]

  basically said that to me at one point [TS]

  like my kind of thinking about talented [TS]

  people came from a conversation you had [TS]

  maybe about six or so months ago we were [TS]

  talking about this about the idea of [TS]

  finding talented people and how [TS]

  difficult that can be and how useful it [TS]

  is the only said like the book made a [TS]

  bigger impact on you the first time than [TS]

  it did this time I wonder if like part [TS]

  of this stuff has been embedded into you [TS]

  and now you think it's obvious because [TS]

  you already read it well I'll tell you i [TS]

  mean here's the thing here's the thing [TS]

  for the listeners which is the short [TS]

  version of my thesis here that i have [TS]

  let's say i have discussed with many [TS]

  people in many different circumstances [TS]

  is that I i am always trying to beat the [TS]

  drum of talent is rarer than people [TS]

  think it is and that i often i often run [TS]

  up against people have some expectation [TS]

  that like there is talent just [TS]

  everywhere waiting to be found and i [TS]

  don't i do not think that is the case [TS]

  but that is a nose small part like I am [TS]

  totally aware that that idea was first [TS]

  dramatically and unwelcome Lee [TS]

  introduced into my brain through my [TS]

  years of teaching [TS]

  ah like some kids you know what ya [TS]

  little Tommy's never going to be an [TS]

  astronaut or Tommy this is a battle that [TS]

  originally came out of my teaching days [TS]

  of much against my own beliefs going [TS]

  into things like I was forced to come to [TS]

  the conclusion that like you know not [TS]

  everybody's a winner [TS]

  I like it's just this is not the way [TS]

  things are going to work and that has [TS]

  been since extended into like the [TS]

  entertainment field as we have discussed [TS]

  on previous podcast is a bit of a weird [TS]

  special case and it's like even thinking [TS]

  like reading about the early pixar stuff [TS]

  is very interesting but I was also just [TS]

  so aware of like yeah but you just [TS]

  totally lucked out with your first three [TS]

  directors like Pixar had great people [TS]

  working on those first three movies and [TS]

  if they didn't have unusually successful [TS]

  people working on those first few movies [TS]

  we wouldn't be talking about picsart [TS]

  yeah okay so yeah they did but these [TS]

  want traditional movie directors like [TS]

  they were developed by pixar discovered [TS]

  by pixar given a chance by I think it's [TS]

  completely luck [TS]

  well it's interesting because there's [TS]

  one part in the book where and camel [TS]

  addresses this exact thing where their [TS]

  first three directors [TS]

  we're not traditional directors that [TS]

  people that said was working with and [TS]

  that when they started bringing on more [TS]

  directors like he ran into this same [TS]

  thing of like I'm sure we can just like [TS]

  turn people into directors a little part [TS]

  of me is like actually you can we try to [TS]

  add it was when he talks about the whole [TS]

  part of like trying to set up a separate [TS]

  part of pics alright let that's working [TS]

  on what movie were they working on toy [TS]

  story 2 i think it was i don't remember [TS]

  what it was but but there's a few parts [TS]

  where and just like you're trying to [TS]

  read between the lines a little bit [TS]

  because and camel is is you know he's [TS]

  he's very nice talking about everybody [TS]

  but you definitely get the feeling that [TS]

  like after their first three directors [TS]

  they spent a little while I kind of [TS]

  floundering trying to bring the next [TS]

  people on it and notice the point where [TS]

  he doesn't name someone when he doesn't [TS]

  give a name is about to slam them [TS]

  doesn't he doesn't slam them but it's [TS]

  it's just like how interesting you are [TS]

  on mentioned brave director like it's [TS]

  just like who are you know there's a few [TS]

  points like that and and so I guess what [TS]

  I'm just what I'm just saying here is [TS]

  like Pixar is also in an interesting [TS]

  situation where by definition they had [TS]

  to be really lucky at the start I like [TS]

  that then that is almost true of any [TS]

  entertainment venture like you have to [TS]

  be lucky at the start and I think that [TS]

  like the interesting fundamental [TS]

  question of creativity inc like almost [TS]

  like the thesis of the book is very [TS]

  clearly like can pixar survive the [TS]

  replacement of its founding members [TS]

  right like those original people who [TS]

  were on board [TS]

  can they engineer a system that will [TS]

  outlast them i think i think that is the [TS]

  heart of the book you know I think it's [TS]

  an open question about whether or not [TS]

  they have like reading through it the [TS]

  second time I've I felt very much almost [TS]

  like less convinced that they have [TS]

  accomplished that then the first time [TS]

  reading through the book like I think [TS]

  they've given it the best of all [TS]

  possible shots but they also still [TS]

  haven't had [TS]

  a complete turnover of the original [TS]

  people working there and i was i was [TS]

  looking through some of their upcoming [TS]

  projects and it's like oh interesting [TS]

  you're bringing back Brad Bird to work [TS]

  on Incredibles 2 in future and I was [TS]

  like we won't know the answer to this [TS]

  question of will pixar outlast the [TS]

  original team or will it like Disney did [TS]

  go through like a half-century of [TS]

  wandering in the wilderness after their [TS]

  initial founder was was lost one of fine [TS]

  things right now is that Disney is [TS]

  producing better movies and pics are in [TS]

  some places i think that is also the [TS]

  interesting context of reading this book [TS]

  two years later than when I first read [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah what was something that really [TS]

  annoys me in the book as they keep [TS]

  talking about failure like we need to [TS]

  have a fairly we need to have a failure [TS]

  but they don't address that like cause [TS]

  to yeah that is a failure but they don't [TS]

  he doesn't talk about it [TS]

  cars 2 is the huge elephant in the room [TS]

  of this book right there is because that [TS]

  movie was out and had flopped i did a [TS]

  search of the text of like did he [TS]

  mention it anywhere it like nope there [TS]

  he doesn't know reference to cars to ms [TS]

  it's really interesting because it [TS]

  throughout the whole book they're [TS]

  talking about like we haven't had a [TS]

  failure what will happen when we have a [TS]

  failure like people was scared because [TS]

  they don't want to be the one [TS]

  responsible for the first failure and I [TS]

  really wanted to hear the story of what [TS]

  happened after cause to butt in [TS]

  it just doesn't get addressed yeah I [TS]

  remember the first time i was reading [TS]

  the book I felt like this has to come up [TS]

  and it doesn't [TS]

  mhm and that's it that to me is like one [TS]

  of that one of the little pieces of like [TS]

  I feel like they're like your you have [TS]

  this big section where you're talking [TS]

  about candor and making sure everybody [TS]

  is really open about what happens and [TS]

  there's there's no shame in anything and [TS]

  yes worrying about failures and like [TS]

  you've gotta tie this together with cars [TS]

  to like but he never does right it just [TS]

  never got feel that is like the direct [TS]

  result of nice guy head [TS]

  yeah he doesn't want to throw the cause [TS]

  team on the bus in the book [TS]

  yeah and and the the other thing which [TS]

  is I i think this is more this is more [TS]

  subjective [TS]

  it's ok so here here's here's the [TS]

  running list for the movies so I made a [TS]

  note of it in the beginning so this book [TS]

  came out after pixar had made 14 movies [TS]

  so here we go right it's 1995 is where [TS]

  they start so it's toy story a bug's [TS]

  life toy story 2 monsters inc finding [TS]

  nemo the incredibles then you have cars [TS]

  at number seven in 2006 which is like [TS]

  maybe a little shaky maybe not I don't [TS]

  know then you have read a tui Wally then [TS]

  it's up in 2009 toys story three cars 22 [TS]

  years before this book brave one year [TS]

  before this book and monsters university [TS]

  is the last movie that comes out before [TS]

  the book is published i gotta say like I [TS]

  think the second half of that list is [TS]

  weaker than the first half of that list [TS]

  monsters university i really like that [TS]

  one I have to say I really liked [TS]

  monsters University precisely to look at [TS]

  this we're gonna tie it back before [TS]

  because the fundamental message of [TS]

  monsters university is you can't always [TS]

  be what you want to be like sorry [TS]

  Michael kowski you were born not scary [TS]

  but you gotta figure something else out [TS]

  no amount of studying is going to make [TS]

  you scary Mike you know it's like you [TS]

  have the Dean is portrayed as the [TS]

  villain but she's not wrong like you're [TS]

  not scary and I have to say like I think [TS]

  that is quite a bold stance for a movie [TS]

  to take as like the fundamental [TS]

  storyline of like now you're not going [TS]

  to achieve your dream yes I think it's a [TS]

  good message because it's like all right [TS]

  you but there is something that you [TS]

  could be really good at you just need to [TS]

  find it accept this and move on [TS]

  yeah like I went through my own version [TS]

  of this when I was younger was like for [TS]

  a long time I want [TS]

  it to be a fiction writer like I wanted [TS]

  to write novels and I spent a lot of [TS]

  time trying to write novels and at one [TS]

  point I had to just grow up and be like [TS]

  you know what man you write some really [TS]

  good fiction like you just have to [TS]

  understand this and move on [TS]

  I don't even want to know how many [TS]

  thousands of words like I attempted to [TS]

  put out but it's like but it's an [TS]

  important moment right to recognize that [TS]

  like you're just you could spend from [TS]

  now until the end of your life trying to [TS]

  write a novel and you will never succeed [TS]

  so like recognize it and move on so I'd [TS]

  like I i like that monsters university I [TS]

  think it's a rare movie that kind of [TS]

  goes against that goes against the grain [TS]

  but it is but so the question about like [TS]

  Pixar as an entity that can survive in [TS]

  the indefinite future producing great [TS]

  movies now that the thing that we have [TS]

  to mention is even though i think the [TS]

  second half of that list is weaker than [TS]

  the first half of that list [TS]

  nonetheless like the average batting for [TS]

  his Pixar is great like that like a [TS]

  mediocre Pixar movie is better than most [TS]

  movies that are made and the hottest [TS]

  animation just get flat yeah just [TS]

  flat-out just flat-out movies but yeah [TS]

  it's just like I'm i was really i really [TS]

  felt a lot less convinced by EDD [TS]

  capitals own story about pics are like [TS]

  two years on then I was the first time I [TS]

  read it and and partly that's because [TS]

  it's like okay I haven't seen it yet but [TS]

  they put out the good dinosaur which [TS]

  didn't really get great reviews and then [TS]

  looking at their future movies it's like [TS]

  okay for the next five movies you have [TS]

  planned four of them are sequels I think [TS]

  part of this though is that there has [TS]

  been a problem with some of the secrets [TS]

  because like he talks about like three [TS]

  movies every two years [TS]

  one of them is equal to new properties [TS]

  right they haven't put out a sequel in [TS]

  awhile but they've had a bunch of new [TS]

  ones so I feel like there's been some [TS]

  production bottlenecks with the sequel's [TS]

  yeah maybe because they had like what [TS]

  brave inside out the good dinosaur right [TS]

  so those are all those are all [TS]

  new yeah and then it's going to be [TS]

  finding Dory is next [TS]

  cars three coco which is there is one [TS]

  cause three cars three they're making a [TS]

  cause [TS]

  three of three fingers with cars though [TS]

  it is a monster much and dice ella ella [TS]

  i'm sure it is and that but that's also [TS]

  where and it's the same thing with like [TS]

  monster that monsters inc like I'm sure [TS]

  it's a that's a pretty good merchandise [TS]

  one as well and actually like when he's [TS]

  talking about we don't think about the [TS]

  merchandise is like okay but like Here I [TS]

  am this does yeah like sitting here in [TS]

  2016 and knowing that you're going to [TS]

  produce cars 3 and it's like I mean his [TS]

  here's the thing i want to make it [TS]

  really clear like there's nothing wrong [TS]

  with a movie studio making money off of [TS]

  merchandising like i don't i don't have [TS]

  a problem with that but it's a different [TS]

  thing when i'm reading a book about how [TS]

  great Pixar is and how Pixar is [TS]

  different and how I think quite rightly [TS]

  what one of the things that makes them [TS]

  different is not putting an emphasis on [TS]

  this stuff but now knowing that it feels [TS]

  like we're in the place with cars 3 and [TS]

  toy story 4 that the merchandise in [TS]

  really does matter [TS]

  I don't think toy story is a good [TS]

  example because there hasn't been a bad [TS]

  one and i will take a number one toy [TS]

  story 3 is arguably the best toy story [TS]

  movie you know like Ida I get it would [TS]

  cause I just think the Toy Story one is [TS]

  just like everybody just wants more toy [TS]

  story [TS]

  yeah i mean and now this is this is of [TS]

  course always a problem with movies that [TS]

  you start getting into like the realm of [TS]

  the realm of subjectivity yeah I'm sorry [TS]

  25 right there getting that we'll just [TS]

  we'll it'll be there eventually like [TS]

  jaws but so i guess like just bringing [TS]

  bringing it back i think the book is is [TS]

  interesting but I'm not sold on the [TS]

  second reading that they have actually [TS]

  solve the problem that they have aim to [TS]

  solve yet one of the things that I [TS]

  struggle with in this book is the idea [TS]

  of kin [TS]

  so basically we mentioned it already but [TS]

  if you know if you haven't read the book [TS]

  one of the tenants that they believe in [TS]

  is is people being honest to each other [TS]

  and being able to be honest about [TS]

  ramification know this is in feedback [TS]

  you know and they they enable that like [TS]

  they continue to enable that we like [TS]

  anybody can talk to anyone you don't [TS]

  have to go for a change of command and [TS]

  they call it candor because truth and [TS]

  honesty and they're too harsh words I [TS]

  just can't get on board with people [TS]

  being completely honest to each other [TS]

  and create work i do i just can't get on [TS]

  board of that I'd I just can't imagine [TS]

  people being completely honest it just [TS]

  doesn't stitch doesnt sit with me [TS]

  there might be a an idea in pixar of [TS]

  people being more honest and then dead [TS]

  but i can't imagine someone saying to [TS]

  somebody that they really don't like a [TS]

  piece of work and the majority of people [TS]

  that work at Pixar being able to accept [TS]

  that what is brush it off and move on [TS]

  it can't work everywhere just conks [TS]

  people humans and the f emotions and [TS]

  emotions get hurt [TS]

  it would say that's where I think that [TS]

  some of the best stuff in the book is is [TS]

  his harping repeatedly on the idea then [TS]

  creative work you should not associate [TS]

  yourself with the creative work right [TS]

  maybe like if you live in pixar you can [TS]

  do this but i don't think that this is [TS]

  an easy thing to do to have people like [TS]

  maybe you know they they talk about it [TS]

  work on it so much inside of pixar that [TS]

  it works but I just struggle to see it [TS]

  like that [TS]

  this is where I think he is trying to [TS]

  convince the reader of an idea that is [TS]

  not the normal idea [TS]

  yeah i'll definitely and so we get in in [TS]

  my experience in all of my working [TS]

  experience with other people people are [TS]

  impossible to separate from their ideas [TS]

  like someone comes up with a dumb idea [TS]

  for how they want to change the [TS]

  curriculum next quarter and if you [TS]

  attack that idea they take it as an [TS]

  attack on them and it's like a [TS]

  christ-like can we talk about the thing [TS]

  like we're not talking about you [TS]

  I get that is a a far too prevalent [TS]

  natural human reaction but i think it's [TS]

  like that's what I really like in this [TS]

  book is him just repeatedly hammering on [TS]

  this and this might be my bias of like [TS]

  believing it can't be true but you know [TS]

  like because it does it really I think [TS]

  anybody that works we have creative [TS]

  people can see how far-fetched are [TS]

  difficult an idea this seems to be [TS]

  because people do get upset [TS]

  yeah but you can't produce really good [TS]

  stuff if you are associating yourself [TS]

  with the idea and you know again with [TS]

  with people i know like everybody is [TS]

  kind of an agreement that you know like [TS]

  the negative feedback is the feedback [TS]

  that is valuable [TS]

  like if you if you are making stuff for [TS]

  the internet and you're making stuff for [TS]

  people to enjoy you have to pay [TS]

  attention to negative feedback in the [TS]

  production process I get super super [TS]

  valuable no matter how much it hurts [TS]

  yet no matter how much it hurts because [TS]

  it's gonna hurt more when everybody [TS]

  laughs at you right here like all this [TS]

  thing is terrible [TS]

  like it's just that is just the way that [TS]

  it it it has to to work [TS]

  I just think as my friend derek has said [TS]

  like the value of positive feedback [TS]

  trends towards zero and so when you know [TS]

  when you're talking about someone's work [TS]

  it's like okay you open with like oh [TS]

  yeah I like this I like this right but [TS]

  very quickly you get three positive [TS]

  comments in and it's like okay but now [TS]

  these positive comments are worthless [TS]

  and like let's get down to brass tacks [TS]

  and tell me what's terrible [TS]

  yeah because like that that's what i [TS]

  really want to know like we had a nice [TS]

  little polite opening but now let's like [TS]

  let's really get to business and so I [TS]

  think a lot of the stuff that he talks [TS]

  about in pixar with this idea of trying [TS]

  to set up what he calls this brain trust [TS]

  where people are reviewing the movie and [TS]

  trying to evaluate it as a thing [TS]

  separate from the person who has created [TS]

  it and talk about what is the problems [TS]

  with this movie not like what is the [TS]

  problem with your movie i think that is [TS]

  valuable valuable stuff for anybody who [TS]

  works on [TS]

  on a team and creative work I I like I [TS]

  have definitely recommended creativity [TS]

  ink to a lot of people and seems to get [TS]

  interesting feedback from people saying [TS]

  like oh yes this is quite valuable to [TS]

  think about like really try hard to make [TS]

  it explicit in feedback sessions that we [TS]

  are discussing the thing we're not [TS]

  discussing the the people and like that [TS]

  is that is the most important thing that [TS]

  you can do but I still just like my [TS]

  little asterisk in my brain about this [TS]

  is it still just falls back about like [TS]

  the most important thing that was that [TS]

  you have good people on that brain trust [TS]

  like there's there's no he talks about [TS]

  systems and all the rest of it i guess [TS]

  thats that's useful but like ultimately [TS]

  you need some really good people on that [TS]

  brain trust like that is the thing that [TS]

  makes it work and that's that's what I [TS]

  wonder about like Pixar trying to put in [TS]

  systems for the future is like okay yes [TS]

  but what happens when those original [TS]

  teams are are no longer there like your [TS]

  brings about the words of the brain [TS]

  trust those so the brain trust is a [TS]

  group inside of pixar of that ranges [TS]

  across the company of people that seem [TS]

  to have a real good grasp on developing [TS]

  stories [TS]

  mhm and these people get together and [TS]

  they review the work that's being [TS]

  produced and help unstick a movie and [TS]

  while they may be helped develop a story [TS]

  that isn't working or can those you know [TS]

  that that really are working they offer [TS]

  candid feedback to each other and [TS]

  there's this as he says sometimes the [TS]

  braintrust doesn't necessarily fix a [TS]

  problem but it might highlight something [TS]

  that isn't working [TS]

  hmm this is the best thing for me to [TS]

  take away from the book and I can't [TS]

  remember where i first heard this but it [TS]

  in the internet circles that I have [TS]

  running in the past there has always [TS]

  been a phrase of your board of directors [TS]

  which I've always really latched onto is [TS]

  like a group of people that you think [TS]

  are important to you and that you value [TS]

  their opinions that you trust and get [TS]

  feedback from [TS]

  used to help further your work [TS]

  mm so I've always had a foreign land at [TS]

  the people who i will send work to get [TS]

  feedback but what I've been thinking [TS]

  about is how could real laugh and be [TS]

  more like pigs are aiming high like and [TS]

  no but like from a structure perspective [TS]

  so who I've been trying to like to still [TS]

  what they are and to still what we are [TS]

  and seeing how there are similarities in [TS]

  that it's like a production company that [TS]

  helps produce and grow different [TS]

  properties like that's why I tried to [TS]

  like take it right down to the very [TS]

  basics and then try to think about it [TS]

  from there so like I thinking if we [TS]

  don't really do so much let's say we [TS]

  wanted to create a new show we don't [TS]

  really go very deep into like somebody [TS]

  has an idea and then we like really [TS]

  developer like there is an element of it [TS]

  by me like months of water can like [TS]

  month you know pilots and then we scrap [TS]

  the idea and we start over like that [TS]

  like real intense work doesn't really [TS]

  happen [TS]

  I don't know anybody that does what I do [TS]

  that really looks at it in that way so I [TS]

  wonder like what the value is something [TS]

  like that would be and having a group of [TS]

  people that would work on a new project [TS]

  together like that and not even that [TS]

  they're necessarily involved in the [TS]

  production but involved in like the [TS]

  judging and development of it i just [TS]

  think like how interesting that could be [TS]

  that's one of the things that is now [TS]

  rattling around in my brain a lot is [TS]

  like this brain trust idea helping [TS]

  develop and produce a show what that [TS]

  could look like and I think it could be [TS]

  quite an ambitious project to work on [TS]

  like a like a brain trust for podcasts [TS]

  are yakking yeah interesting idea to [TS]

  either is like it's just something has [TS]

  been rattling around in my brain is like [TS]

  a how could we try and think more like [TS]

  that because you know it's it's very [TS]

  different but when really kind of [TS]

  stripped back to its essentials not [TS]

  crazily different in what [TS]

  misto them pics are works very [TS]

  differently to my old company the idea [TS]

  of honesty trust people making [TS]

  themselves accountable or spear [TS]

  respectful of time not living in fear an [TS]

  actual desire to teach people not just [TS]

  tick boxes those things are all the [TS]

  complete opposite of the environment i [TS]

  worked in and you know environments that [TS]

  I know other people walked in [TS]

  who and I'm sure that pixar isn't [TS]

  perfect but it really feels like they [TS]

  try their best to create a company that [TS]

  tries to his best of people who I've [TS]

  really felt that [TS]

  yeah it is it is definitely it [TS]

  definitely comes through that if that is [TS]

  the case in the book like that they want [TS]

  to create an environment where people [TS]

  can try to achieve their best i think [TS]

  that i think that is that is pretty [TS]

  obvious from the way the book is written [TS]

  that that is that is what their their [TS]

  goal is like like I I like the part [TS]

  where they talk about the pixar shorts [TS]

  that they put together as an example of [TS]

  like somebody has an idea like let's [TS]

  just let's just let them go with it like [TS]

  some just go ahead and produce a short [TS]

  and how they very consciously don't [TS]

  think of those shorts as commercial [TS]

  endeavours they tried to didn't a like [TS]

  they're tried to think all this could be [TS]

  a way to help develop our technology and [TS]

  then realized very quickly that they [TS]

  don't do that they don't help at all [TS]

  that just cost you money and don't do [TS]

  anything right they just they just cost [TS]

  money and time and people and yeah it's [TS]

  like it is there's no line on a [TS]

  spreadsheet which justifies those shorts [TS]

  but that they have some some ambiguous [TS]

  difficult to pin down feeling that [TS]

  allowing people to work on those short [TS]

  creative projects is worthwhile and so [TS]

  they do it even though there is no [TS]

  business justification for whatsoever [TS]

  I think like that is a that is precisely [TS]

  the kind of thing that I think is a [TS]

  great sign from a company and wood wood [TS]

  for me be in the future like a huge red [TS]

  flag of pixar ever stop doing shorts [TS]

  like mm okay yeah that's a that's a big [TS]

  fat slow fish in a barrel to shoot if [TS]

  you are a bean-counter yeah like that's [TS]

  the obvious thing to shoot and they're [TS]

  like its absence would be quite notable [TS]

  if they ever if they ever stop doing [TS]

  that [TS]

  it's like he says at one point kind of [TS]

  the idea that you can measure things but [TS]

  be okay with the fact that you can't [TS]

  completely measure everything [TS]

  yeah yeah and this is one of those [TS]

  things yes without a doubt that that is [TS]

  that is definitely that was definitely [TS]

  the case my favorite part of the book is [TS]

  the part I think it's like part 4 which [TS]

  is the disney-pixar merger and because [TS]

  what it does is throughout the whole [TS]

  book they're talking about the things [TS]

  that they do and the things that they [TS]

  believe in and how they think that [TS]

  things that they do can help build a [TS]

  great company and then this was the case [TS]

  study moving out more and last i had to [TS]

  go into disney and make disney work more [TS]

  like Pixar blue and see if it helped and [TS]

  it did [TS]

  yeah yeah but there i think it's it's [TS]

  pretty easy to say that that the [TS]

  excellent out proof rhesus right and it [TS]

  also has the like the interesting mirror [TS]

  of almost like a reverse merger in the [TS]

  same way that apple bought next and he's [TS]

  like yeah what did you like favoring mix [TS]

  took over apple exactly i mean and who [TS]

  was responsible because those yeah [TS]

  exists it's like steve jobs like oh hi [TS]

  Steve Jobs showing up again like this [TS]

  exact same maneuver role and there is [TS]

  definitely a feeling like did disney by [TS]

  pixar I legally yes but it certainly [TS]

  feels like Disney has been very pics are [TS]

  five [TS]

  yes why it's a merger and acquisition [TS]

  yeah you know they bet the the smaller [TS]

  companies leaders came in and run the [TS]

  new team right [TS]

  yeah it's yeah it's it's it's [TS]

  interesting it's interesting to see it's [TS]

  interesting to see but it also does it [TS]

  like gives us this funny feeling of like [TS]

  his Pixar as ahead as they used to be [TS]

  like maybe not but it's also like [TS]

  entirely their fault someplace with [TS]

  Disney like I just need seems to be [TS]

  making much better stuff than they used [TS]

  to [TS]

  you know getting out of the wilderness [TS]

  finally with their ownership of pixar so [TS]

  i gotta say i think i've really enjoyed [TS]

  this book i enjoyed it from an [TS]

  entertainment perspective I found it [TS]

  very very interesting just to hear the [TS]

  story but there were things in it that [TS]

  really i have pulled out like the idea [TS]

  of the brain trust and thinking about [TS]

  what that looks like for me and the idea [TS]

  of thinking about people with talent [TS]

  thinking about giving people the ability [TS]

  to do work like there are a lot of [TS]

  things in this book that really i think [TS]

  i'm going to put a lot more fall into [TS]

  I'm and there are still things from [TS]

  email but I think about that you're [TS]

  genuinely and there are still things [TS]

  that we need to do want to do for our [TS]

  business that would spoke about in that [TS]

  book there is benefit in these books and [TS]

  I hope that we're able to distill these [TS]

  down for people if they don't want to [TS]

  take the time to listen to these to our [TS]

  book I have to say one of the biggest [TS]

  things from either from this is Pixar [TS]

  has now joined the very small group of [TS]

  companies that i would take a job i [TS]

  don't think i would there's a job for me [TS]

  at Pixar but listening to their culture [TS]

  and the way that they work like I could [TS]

  I could work in that could work in a [TS]

  culture that's high praise indeed [TS]

  what are the other companies on that [TS]

  list cards against humanity ok and field [TS]

  notes and field notes [TS]

  ok alright that seems that seems very [TS]

  Mike list of places that places that he [TS]

  would he would work [TS]

  yeah like I think people like Apple I [TS]

  don't know if I could do it now why [TS]

  would want to work at Apple don't know [TS]

  if I could do it i don't know if i would [TS]

  want to be as quiet as they would tend [TS]

  to be too much pressure major secrecy [TS]

  like I'm very I'm very grateful for the [TS]

  people who do work at Apple but I think [TS]

  like that's a the the tough path [TS]

  perhaps in in life that I i would not [TS]

  take a job at Pixar i would i would do [TS]

  voice work for Pixar no but I would [TS]

  never ever take a job at Pixar I don't [TS]

  think that would that would be what I [TS]

  would do like I'm pretty happy with my [TS]

  my one-man totally unscalable [TS]

  frustrating in some ways but incredibly [TS]

  liberty [TS]

  being in other ways business there's a [TS]

  couple of final point just looking [TS]

  through looking through my notes with [TS]

  some of which were double highlighted [TS]

  from me from two years ago with me from [TS]

  now one of the things which is a point [TS]

  often reiterated and creative work but i [TS]

  think is always always useful to [TS]

  emphasize is a capital talks about the [TS]

  baby like the ugly baby and how the [TS]

  early drafts of all creative work are [TS]

  horrifying I like they're not they're [TS]

  not good to look at that they take a lot [TS]

  of they take a lot of work to go through [TS]

  and perhaps one of the things that I [TS]

  like the best in the book was him going [TS]

  through what some of the movie and [TS]

  looked like before they became the movie [TS]

  so valuable [TS]

  yeah and I think up was a great example [TS]

  of that where he goes throughout the [TS]

  Gospels are like the you know it's like [TS]

  that the first the first version was all [TS]

  about like a magical ostrich and it's [TS]

  like what I'm like okay but but they go [TS]

  through like here were the three or four [TS]

  iterations of up before we settled on on [TS]

  what the eventual story would be and [TS]

  monsters inc as well was really [TS]

  interesting for ya monsters inc was was [TS]

  essentially like like the delusions of a [TS]

  paranoid schizophrenic like that like [TS]

  that was that was draft one of monsters [TS]

  inc i feel like the idea of the [TS]

  inside-out came from the original draft [TS]

  of monsters inc [TS]

  yeah you could maybe you could maybe see [TS]

  like a marriage between those two [TS]

  but i canna monsters die it's like how [TS]

  like this guy can see monsters and they [TS]

  are like his feelings and his emotions [TS]

  and his problems following him around as [TS]

  monsters and then the idea the end of [TS]

  the movie is he feels better his life [TS]

  gets better and the monsters go away and [TS]

  a sec I can't see the killing the [TS]

  monsters which is what the kids would [TS]

  relate to because I'm sure there'll be [TS]

  fun looking monsters right yeah it's [TS]

  like I don't understand how you could [TS]

  ever think that this was going to work [TS]

  but but like that is the whole point of [TS]

  it is that when you go through the first [TS]

  drafts when you are creating something [TS]

  it's not always obvious that the thing [TS]

  is terrible like but it doesn't matter [TS]

  like just get the idea out and then [TS]

  we'll just we'll just work on this [TS]

  and and so we only talked about how it's [TS]

  like we like the monsters we don't [TS]

  really like the main character like what [TS]

  can we do with the monsters and and they [TS]

  go through all these different [TS]

  variations of like oh maybe we can have [TS]

  this character called boo and she's like [TS]

  a like a angry teenager is like I don't [TS]

  know it's better if she's a toddler like [TS]

  I think it is useful to see some [TS]

  examples of how things change like how [TS]

  they go from being awful to how they go [TS]

  to being better like if you do any kind [TS]

  of creative work it's always useful to [TS]

  hear that kind of stuff to be like wow [TS]

  it was terrible in the beginning this [TS]

  makes me feel better about mine terrible [TS]

  first version of of whatever it is that [TS]

  i'm working on so you know is his [TS]

  version of this is called I know the [TS]

  ugly baby that this is the idea that [TS]

  like they're all ugly in the beginning [TS]

  some of them will grow up to be great [TS]

  but not all of them and the other the [TS]

  other thing which really struck out to [TS]

  me in this in this reading of it which [TS]

  didn't strike me so much the first time [TS]

  was his flip side of the ugly baby is [TS]

  what he talked calls the beast and he [TS]

  talks about feeding the Beast where you [TS]

  as a company end up creating this [TS]

  pressure for you to keep producing stuff [TS]

  and he talks about how you start having [TS]

  all of these fixed costs like you have [TS]

  employees and you have buildings and you [TS]

  have electrical bills and all of this is [TS]

  the Beast that will just eat you alive [TS]

  unless you keep producing stuff and I [TS]

  think there's a very interesting section [TS]

  where he talks about from his [TS]

  perspective it was partly like the Beast [TS]

  that ate up Disney that they became very [TS]

  concerned about like we have to just [TS]

  constantly keep pushing movies out and [TS]

  that like the the the Beast is this [TS]

  thing which if you will let it will try [TS]

  to like chain you to an assembly-line [TS]

  schedule of like we've got to have a [TS]

  movie out every six months like go go go [TS]

  because we have all these animators and [TS]

  we have to pay them and I thought good [TS]

  it's a really interesting thing to keep [TS]

  in mind and obviously as a person who's [TS]

  not super fan of schedules like aye aye [TS]

  aye [TS]

  align with that idea very much but [TS]

  particularly caught me this time because [TS]

  at least in my own personal experiences [TS]

  like I am aware that you know have [TS]

  having been self-employed for four years [TS]

  now that i have slowly but surely built [TS]

  up more of my own beast than I had even [TS]

  the first time I read this book when I [TS]

  was like oh yeah the Beast ok whatever [TS]

  this is like an interesting idea but now [TS]

  I really feel this idea of like oh god I [TS]

  do have fixed costs like and I do have [TS]

  people that I work with who I pay and [TS]

  like I have these expenses with like an [TS]

  assistant and with lawyers and with [TS]

  stock footage and like this office that [TS]

  I'm renting and like all of this kind of [TS]

  stuff and that was just it was useful to [TS]

  read that and just keep in mind like [TS]

  with many of these books the utility is [TS]

  putting a word to with thing it's useful [TS]

  to have this idea of like the Beast and [TS]

  you have to keep the beast at bay [TS]

  I can see it's provide some motivation [TS]

  but you you can't let it become the [TS]

  controlling factor and you can't let it [TS]

  like chain you into the like tricking [TS]

  you into just producing stuff just to [TS]

  get something out the door so that you [TS]

  have money coming in to pay your fixed [TS]

  costs because as he points out like if [TS]

  you get into that cycle the more [TS]

  successful you are like the bigger the [TS]

  Beast will get like the more expenses [TS]

  you'll start incurring which then just [TS]

  pushes you to produce even more low [TS]

  quality stuff just to get things out the [TS]

  door so yes it's a especially in the [TS]

  last couple months which have been [TS]

  unusually expensive for me like that [TS]

  really that really struck home in the in [TS]

  the second reading of the book so last [TS]

  time we told you not to read email [TS]

  freezes revisited um and I maintain [TS]

  begging you not to do but i would [TS]

  recommend people read this book I think [TS]

  it's very interesting i think there's [TS]

  stuff that you should listen to we [TS]

  didn't I don't think we covered every [TS]

  all of the lessons we definitely didn't [TS]

  cover all the lessons that are in this [TS]

  book [TS]

  there might be things that resonate with [TS]

  you more than they did with me and grey [TS]

  I ice i recommend reading creative tank [TS]

  yeah i'm going to definitely second [TS]

  recommend the book as i mentioned like [TS]

  there were things I didn't like as much [TS]

  the same [TS]

  in time around the small small pic i [TS]

  really don't like the the narrator for [TS]

  the audiobook I had an area [TS]

  oh man ok can we talk about that for [TS]

  just a split second he's not as bad as a [TS]

  previous narrator but I just I don't [TS]

  like I don't like his voice I don't like [TS]

  the way it sounds [TS]

  I don't know what at capital sounds like [TS]

  I have no idea but the narrator is like [TS]

  okay so I kept having this feeling that [TS]

  the narrator is basically like an [TS]

  over-enthusiastic grandpa who's telling [TS]

  you stories that should be interesting [TS]

  but it's his very enthusiasm and the way [TS]

  he is emphasizing stuff that makes it an [TS]

  interesting so it's like oh you're [TS]

  telling me stories from about when you [TS]

  used to work with walt disney in the [TS]

  nineteen-twenties grandpa but like [TS]

  you're over [TS]

  I don't know / friendly way it's just [TS]

  like killing any interest in the story [TS]

  like this one point where like the [TS]

  author is reading about like a car crash [TS]

  that capitalism is like you can't use [TS]

  the same voice the same like super [TS]

  over-friendly old man voice to do this [TS]

  part of the story is there not a fan not [TS]

  a fan of the of the narrator for the [TS]

  audiobook so maybe i would read this i [TS]

  know you don't read books Mike but I [TS]

  read it the first time didn't like the [TS]

  didn't like the narrator for the [TS]

  audiobook I think it does suffer a [TS]

  little bit of what i think of as the the [TS]

  DVD extra problem where everyone is [TS]

  always talking about how great everybody [TS]

  else is to work with and so there are [TS]

  there are many things was just here to [TS]

  take me in the book where is like Ed [TS]

  Catmull I cannot read another [TS]

  description where you are talking about [TS]

  how amazing and ingenious and bold the [TS]

  idea for this next movie is like I can't [TS]

  deal with that anymore man like there's [TS]

  just too much of it so that kind of [TS]

  graded on me after a while but those [TS]

  things aside I have recommended this [TS]

  book many times over the years since i [TS]

  first read it and for anybody working on [TS]

  the team I would definitely continue to [TS]

  recommend it so creativity inc check it [TS]

  out [TS]