Cortex 32: Dropping Acid


00:00:00   so great when we knew that we were going [TS]

00:00:01   to be in san francisco together i was [TS]

00:00:04   thinking how interesting it would be to [TS]

00:00:06   record cortex in person especially when [TS]

00:00:08   you put it on the calendar and I was [TS]

00:00:10   like the whole look at this going to be [TS]

00:00:12   in san francisco it's gonna be a new [TS]

00:00:14   experience like recording in the same [TS]

00:00:16   room we've never done that before so [TS]

00:00:18   here we are we're in san francisco both [TS]

00:00:21   in the same hotel recording the show but [TS]

00:00:24   can you tell people where you are right [TS]

00:00:26   now i am in my hotel room talking to you [TS]

00:00:29   in your hotel room [TS]

00:00:30   yeah this is the way podcast were meant [TS]

00:00:33   to be Mike it never occurred to me that [TS]

00:00:35   would be recording in person this is how [TS]

00:00:37   I always envisioned this moment we like [TS]

00:00:40   in the same building and we're talking [TS]

00:00:41   on skype just this is so inefficient [TS]

00:00:44   know but this is perfectly efficient you [TS]

00:00:47   shouldn't do a podcast while looking at [TS]

00:00:49   your podcast and co-host I feel very [TS]

00:00:50   strongly about this [TS]

00:00:52   you should only ever hear them because [TS]

00:00:53   the audience only ever hears them and [TS]

00:00:56   also it's super weird to record podcast [TS]

00:00:57   person I would be so uncomfortable if i [TS]

00:01:00   was looking in your little Mike eyeballs [TS]

00:01:02   right now and trying to record a show I [TS]

00:01:03   don't think I could do it I feel like [TS]

00:01:06   you need to be starting the show by [TS]

00:01:07   going like live from san francisco it's [TS]

00:01:10   mike and gray it's the mic and gray [TS]

00:01:12   variety hour [TS]

00:01:14   yeah even though we are in the same [TS]

00:01:15   hotel room it does still feel different [TS]

00:01:17   somehow I don't know how but it does but [TS]

00:01:19   I mean maybe it's different because I [TS]

00:01:20   had to see you five minutes ago to grab [TS]

00:01:23   your ipad to tether to do the show in [TS]

00:01:25   the first place and it was a little [TS]

00:01:26   weird seeing you in person doing the [TS]

00:01:28   show but yes it does feel different a [TS]

00:01:30   hundred percent of everything is [TS]

00:01:32   different i'm not using the right [TS]

00:01:33   computer i'm not using any of my own [TS]

00:01:34   equipment [TS]

00:01:35   mmm i'm recording in front of a mirror [TS]

00:01:37   which is really uncomfortable [TS]

00:01:39   I've never recorded a podcast in front [TS]

00:01:40   of a mirror before but I'm doing that [TS]

00:01:43   right now just imagine that mirror was [TS]

00:01:46   me and how much more uncomfortable would [TS]

00:01:48   you be that's why this is the right way [TS]

00:01:49   to do this right now okay that makes [TS]

00:01:51   sense but we did actually record [TS]

00:01:53   something in person to make a couple of [TS]

00:01:55   days ago to record this we recorded the [TS]

00:01:58   first annual Relay khan in person [TS]

00:02:02   a little surprised we kept it we kept it [TS]

00:02:04   secret until the last moment that i was [TS]

00:02:06   going to be showing up at the end and [TS]

00:02:08   say hello to everybody that was actually [TS]

00:02:11   a lot of fun right because you're at [TS]

00:02:13   we we made each other on sunday or [TS]

00:02:16   saturday and we kind of had to keep you [TS]

00:02:19   a secret in san francisco until monday [TS]

00:02:22   night which even included because we had [TS]

00:02:24   a an event we had an audience of people [TS]

00:02:26   that has people coming in I asked you to [TS]

00:02:29   not speak let's go talk to anybody [TS]

00:02:31   should give the game away [TS]

00:02:33   yeah it was funny it was a funny [TS]

00:02:37   experience in the preparation for the [TS]

00:02:39   show because obviously you and Stephen [TS]

00:02:42   were doing all of the set up by getting [TS]

00:02:44   the stage ready and you have everybody [TS]

00:02:46   there and I'm there because i want to [TS]

00:02:47   see the environment where what it's [TS]

00:02:49   going to look like how is the stage [TS]

00:02:51   going to be set up you need to be there [TS]

00:02:52   in advance for one of these events but [TS]

00:02:54   then as people started trickling in [TS]

00:02:56   when I was just in what was a very [TS]

00:02:58   natural role decided to play the [TS]

00:03:01   antisocial nerd and just stand in a [TS]

00:03:03   corner and look at my phone for the [TS]

00:03:05   entirety of the pre preparation [TS]

00:03:08   everybody's coming in the room part of [TS]

00:03:10   the show and it's like great this is [TS]

00:03:11   this is the perfect camouflage I'm just [TS]

00:03:13   gonna stand here we look at my phone i'm [TS]

00:03:15   going to go over the notes for what [TS]

00:03:17   we're going to do onstage and hopefully [TS]

00:03:19   no one will come up and talk to me which [TS]

00:03:21   is exactly what happened so perfect [TS]

00:03:23   camouflage yeah what were you well and [TS]

00:03:25   this section that we turn the stage [TS]

00:03:26   never was really fun enjoy it a lot you [TS]

00:03:28   can make great gifts which was [TS]

00:03:30   terrifying for me [TS]

00:03:31   yes for people who were not there in [TS]

00:03:33   person the one thing that i think the [TS]

00:03:36   the live viewers were able to see that i [TS]

00:03:39   was able to see the best that was my [TS]

00:03:41   absolute favorite was the terror in [TS]

00:03:44   Mike's eyes of having a uncontrollable [TS]

00:03:49   cgpgrey onstage [TS]

00:03:51   thank you they were quite a few times [TS]

00:03:53   when I would start to say something and [TS]

00:03:55   I feel like you suddenly realize this is [TS]

00:03:58   live [TS]

00:03:59   you can't you can't do anything now and [TS]

00:04:02   you didn't know what was going to happen [TS]

00:04:03   I would like start to tell the story and [TS]

00:04:05   I could see in your eyes like what is he [TS]

00:04:07   going to say and then I was a little bit [TS]

00:04:10   mean because I thought you didn't know [TS]

00:04:12   that was going to bring you a little [TS]

00:04:13   gift [TS]

00:04:14   no I thought oh I know what I'll do with [TS]

00:04:16   Mike when I come on stage I will have it [TS]

00:04:19   in my hand and I will place it on the [TS]

00:04:21   table right in between the two of us and [TS]

00:04:23   point to it to make sure that you can [TS]

00:04:25   see what it is and you went to go [TS]

00:04:27   about and I was like no the mystery [TS]

00:04:28   boxes for later when this is all often [TS]

00:04:31   microphone and remember you're kinda [TS]

00:04:33   just like don't look at that now leave [TS]

00:04:34   it there [TS]

00:04:35   I like always in this box Luke I didn't [TS]

00:04:39   I didn't for one moment expect it was a [TS]

00:04:41   gift i just didn't know what it was it [TS]

00:04:43   was off microphone but I just it was a [TS]

00:04:45   little bit me if I didn't want to kind [TS]

00:04:46   of plant the idea in your head like oh [TS]

00:04:47   there's a mystery pox on the table [TS]

00:04:49   what's in the mystery box like what's in [TS]

00:04:51   the box man right you'll find out later [TS]

00:04:53   you'll find out at the end and what was [TS]

00:04:55   in the box like a wooden bow tie it was [TS]

00:04:58   the most beautiful hipster bowtie yeah I [TS]

00:05:00   had ever seen and i thought i had to get [TS]

00:05:02   it for you [TS]

00:05:03   well the best moment is when I realized [TS]

00:05:05   it was made of wood because I opened the [TS]

00:05:07   box and just thought it was a nice bow [TS]

00:05:08   tie [TS]

00:05:09   mhm and as I can't think you picked it [TS]

00:05:11   up and screamed I think laughter when I [TS]

00:05:14   thought it was made of wood and I put it [TS]

00:05:16   on and I wore it for the rest of the [TS]

00:05:18   evening and was worried that I was going [TS]

00:05:20   to slash my jugular with it every now [TS]

00:05:22   and then I would move my head and I [TS]

00:05:25   would feel and think raised against my [TS]

00:05:26   neck was like oh hello [TS]

00:05:28   no but isn't this the epitome of fashion [TS]

00:05:32   Mike that something is supposed to look [TS]

00:05:34   fabulous but be terrifyingly [TS]

00:05:37   uncomfortable isn't that what high [TS]

00:05:39   fashion is and you look very fashionable [TS]

00:05:40   it's kind of like the macbook adorable [TS]

00:05:42   right like it looks fabulous but there [TS]

00:05:44   is just so much terror when using kiss [TS]

00:05:46   the battery runs out or I will not let [TS]

00:05:48   you besmirched the reputation of the [TS]

00:05:50   macbook adorable like that i've been [TS]

00:05:52   using it for whatever it is it's almost [TS]

00:05:54   two weeks now since the last time we [TS]

00:05:56   spoke about it i absolutely love this [TS]

00:05:57   machine i'm using it right now and i'm [TS]

00:06:00   sure you will be happy to know that for [TS]

00:06:03   the bargain basement price of eighty [TS]

00:06:06   dollars i was able to get an adapter [TS]

00:06:08   allows me to plug in the power and the [TS]

00:06:11   microphone at the same time the total [TS]

00:06:13   steal at the same time the great buys [TS]

00:06:16   that adapter he tries to convince me to [TS]

00:06:18   buy a macbook mhm and you got close man [TS]

00:06:21   I mean I've like them for a while but [TS]

00:06:23   when I had to put this macbook pro in my [TS]

00:06:26   bag travel here who [TS]

00:06:28   oh it was like carrying 20 computers [TS]

00:06:30   that was a long time ago it's this brick [TS]

00:06:32   of obligation [TS]

00:06:33   it just it just feels heavy it's huge [TS]

00:06:36   it's this thing that you have to carry [TS]

00:06:37   and I'm feeling really smug about myself [TS]

00:06:39   because everyone was saying all this [TS]

00:06:41   gonna be new computers at WWDC and they [TS]

00:06:43   weren't so I don't even even better [TS]

00:06:45   decision to get my little netbook [TS]

00:06:46   adorable [TS]

00:06:47   yeah i wish i would have had the great [TS]

00:06:49   approach so I would have done it [TS]

00:06:50   beforehand because there's no point [TS]

00:06:51   there's no point buying it now Sandra [TS]

00:06:53   bring into computers home that I would [TS]

00:06:56   kind of suck everything should be more [TS]

00:06:58   great great ideas don't come along very [TS]

00:07:00   often and this is especially true if the [TS]

00:07:03   idea that you've had results and you [TS]

00:07:05   wanting to sell something [TS]

00:07:07   what you've had that great idea you need [TS]

00:07:09   somewhere to actually sell it online [TS]

00:07:11   that once you finally got around to [TS]

00:07:13   getting that online store set up just [TS]

00:07:15   the way that you want you'll need to get [TS]

00:07:17   the perfect domain name for it and [TS]

00:07:19   finding that perfect domain is [TS]

00:07:21   ridiculously easy with however however [TS]

00:07:25   makes it so simple to find that unique [TS]

00:07:27   and relevant domain name they have over [TS]

00:07:29   400 domain extensions to enjoy me with [TS]

00:07:32   like the perfectly just launched dot [TS]

00:07:34   store which is the very best way to tell [TS]

00:07:37   people to tell the world that your [TS]

00:07:39   website is where they should be going to [TS]

00:07:41   spend their money on your new and [TS]

00:07:43   amazing thing this domain extension is [TS]

00:07:46   an excellent way to get your store to [TS]

00:07:48   stand now head and shoulders above the [TS]

00:07:51   rest if you're looking to sell anything [TS]

00:07:52   online this new option is an absolute [TS]

00:07:55   no-brainer and should be the first up [TS]

00:07:57   you make on the road to launching your [TS]

00:07:59   idea to the world makes it super simple [TS]

00:08:02   to help get your new domain setup with [TS]

00:08:04   your online store that you've just [TS]

00:08:06   created and will provide you with the [TS]

00:08:07   tools you need to connect that domain in [TS]

00:08:10   just a few clicks you've already done [TS]

00:08:12   all the hard work you've come up with [TS]

00:08:14   the idea you've got the thing that you [TS]

00:08:16   want to sell you been working on it for [TS]

00:08:18   so long that however take care of all [TS]

00:08:20   this mess for you just go to Harvard [TS]

00:08:21   calm and use the promo code travel check [TS]

00:08:24   out to save ten percent of your first [TS]

00:08:26   purchase they have tons of a domain [TS]

00:08:28   options as well go check them out thank [TS]

00:08:30   you so much to hover for their support [TS]

00:08:32   of this show so the relay conivent room [TS]

00:08:35   was it was an interesting setup and it [TS]

00:08:37   was it was different for both of us I [TS]

00:08:39   think for you [TS]

00:08:41   I guess this word maybe the first [TS]

00:08:43   podcast you ever done where what was [TS]

00:08:46   said just was released [TS]

00:08:48   yeah yeah i mean that that was a strange [TS]

00:08:51   thing for me [TS]

00:08:54   guys 444 listeners who have never done [TS]

00:08:58   something like a podcast there that when [TS]

00:09:01   you are speaking and aware that a thing [TS]

00:09:04   is going to be recorded you can just [TS]

00:09:07   talk in a different way than you [TS]

00:09:09   normally do because you know for example [TS]

00:09:11   if you say something and you mess it up [TS]

00:09:13   you can just start again and you cut out [TS]

00:09:15   the part that was messed up and this [TS]

00:09:16   happens all the time on the podcast that [TS]

00:09:18   idea where you Yusei thought and you go [TS]

00:09:20   oh wait i just love that look like [TS]

00:09:22   rerecord a line and do it again and it's [TS]

00:09:24   a better listening experience and I know [TS]

00:09:27   that you do a bunch of your shows live [TS]

00:09:30   and speaking with people who do most of [TS]

00:09:33   their podcast live that they learn to [TS]

00:09:35   just talk in a different way than I am [TS]

00:09:37   on a podcast where they are aware that [TS]

00:09:39   it is live and kind and like focused on [TS]

00:09:42   that and I think there's a real [TS]

00:09:43   difference like these are two different [TS]

00:09:45   skills talking live on a podcast or [TS]

00:09:48   talking for a podcast that you know is [TS]

00:09:50   going to be edited and release later and [TS]

00:09:53   that's one of the reasons why we don't [TS]

00:09:54   record cortex live for the listeners [TS]

00:09:58   whereas a bunch of relations like you [TS]

00:09:59   can listen to them live you can if you [TS]

00:10:02   want download the relay app and get [TS]

00:10:04   little notifications for when those [TS]

00:10:05   shows goes live and and listen to the [TS]

00:10:07   men but we don't do that because I [TS]

00:10:09   prefer to talk for the recording but yes [TS]

00:10:13   this was different because i did not [TS]

00:10:14   like okay this is going out live right [TS]

00:10:17   now there are X number of people around [TS]

00:10:19   the world listening to it plus the [TS]

00:10:21   people who were actually in the room and [TS]

00:10:25   so that makes it a much more [TS]

00:10:27   high-pressure environment because you [TS]

00:10:32   look like a total weirdo if you start to [TS]

00:10:34   say a sentence and then you say oh I let [TS]

00:10:37   me start again and then you say the [TS]

00:10:39   sentence again you look like a broken [TS]

00:10:41   human being like what's wrong with that [TS]

00:10:42   guy making all that racket that strike [TS]

00:10:46   that from the record people who are into [TS]

00:10:48   it again and so doing it live is is much [TS]

00:10:52   more intense [TS]

00:10:53   luckily in my former life I was a [TS]

00:10:56   teacher which is like doing a whole [TS]

00:10:57   bunch of live presentations and i have [TS]

00:10:59   given other live talks on other topics [TS]

00:11:02   in my previous work and side projects so [TS]

00:11:06   I'm I'm used to that in [TS]

00:11:07   environment so for me it was just a [TS]

00:11:09   question of mode switching of this is a [TS]

00:11:14   presentation this is like standing up at [TS]

00:11:17   the front of the assembly hall in school [TS]

00:11:20   and it's just a totally different mode [TS]

00:11:22   so my brain actually didn't treat that [TS]

00:11:24   at all like i am recording a podcast [TS]

00:11:26   with Mike because I think I couldn't [TS]

00:11:28   have done that if I was thinking about [TS]

00:11:29   it as a podcast I had to think of it [TS]

00:11:31   more like I am doing a tiny presentation [TS]

00:11:34   and that's why we'll put it in the show [TS]

00:11:36   notes people can listen to the live real [TS]

00:11:38   icon recording but if you hear me [TS]

00:11:40   talking there I i think i saw a number [TS]

00:11:43   of comments from people saying that I [TS]

00:11:45   sound really different and the answer is [TS]

00:11:47   because its presentation mode and that's [TS]

00:11:50   that is a skill you that you can learn [TS]

00:11:51   and it but it's a very very different [TS]

00:11:54   thing from what's happening that which [TS]

00:11:55   is I'm alone in a hotel room talking to [TS]

00:11:59   Mike was somewhere else like you spent [TS]

00:12:02   the majority of the time addressing the [TS]

00:12:03   audience as opposed to talking to me [TS]

00:12:05   which was very different [TS]

00:12:08   yeah that was that was another one of [TS]

00:12:09   those things were sitting on stage I [TS]

00:12:11   could see that you you were having a bit [TS]

00:12:13   of the like who the hell is this guy [TS]

00:12:15   reaction I've never seen you move the [TS]

00:12:17   way you were moving like your arms are [TS]

00:12:19   all over the place you are rocking back [TS]

00:12:21   and forth and your chair talking to the [TS]

00:12:22   audience cracking jokes taking control [TS]

00:12:25   like what is this man who is this that I [TS]

00:12:28   don't know what you look like anymore [TS]

00:12:29   it's just somebody else they're rolling [TS]

00:12:31   off the street it was very difficult for [TS]

00:12:33   me there was like a moment where I was [TS]

00:12:34   like ah I need to change everything [TS]

00:12:37   about what I'm doing right because i had [TS]

00:12:39   a whole you know my boy I planned [TS]

00:12:41   everything out i had kind of set [TS]

00:12:43   questions for everyone which was a whole [TS]

00:12:45   big kettle of fish because i don't like [TS]

00:12:47   just a couple of hours to get everything [TS]

00:12:49   ready from like key note to show which [TS]

00:12:52   was uncomfortable for me but when we set [TS]

00:12:56   everything up and I was trying to be [TS]

00:12:58   like how am I gonna help great get [TS]

00:13:00   through this one you just took control [TS]

00:13:03   and remove it and I was like my job's [TS]

00:13:05   easy i'll just screaming bowties is no [TS]

00:13:07   problem here ever that but that's why [TS]

00:13:10   that the live viewers got to see the [TS]

00:13:12   look in like sighs which I totally [TS]

00:13:14   terrace of like I'm losing control in [TS]

00:13:16   this situation I don't know it's [TS]

00:13:18   happening [TS]

00:13:19   what about you but you point out that [TS]

00:13:21   like it's a little thing but you know if [TS]

00:13:23   anyone's ever onstage like I made a [TS]

00:13:25   conscious decision to do with thing [TS]

00:13:27   which was sit further from you than I [TS]

00:13:30   would if we were just talking to each [TS]

00:13:32   other and like a lunch it's like I'm [TS]

00:13:34   going to be further away from you and [TS]

00:13:36   then I intentionally there are some some [TS]

00:13:39   photos where you can you can see it but [TS]

00:13:40   i am basically like three-quarters of [TS]

00:13:43   the way facing the audience and one [TS]

00:13:45   quarter of the way facing you and this [TS]

00:13:47   is what i mean by like you can learn [TS]

00:13:49   presentation skills if you do this a [TS]

00:13:52   bunch because it's it's a situation [TS]

00:13:54   where like Mike asks me a question and [TS]

00:13:57   then I would turn to the audience to [TS]

00:14:00   talk and if you're ever on stage and you [TS]

00:14:03   do that kind of thing you can't help but [TS]

00:14:06   talk in like a louder more animated [TS]

00:14:09   voice when you're looking at a group of [TS]

00:14:11   people because your monkey brain is [TS]

00:14:13   aware [TS]

00:14:13   oh there's people waiting in the back [TS]

00:14:15   over there they can't they can't see you [TS]

00:14:17   very well and so you have to talk much [TS]

00:14:19   more loudly whereas if i SAT really [TS]

00:14:22   close to you and looks like right into [TS]

00:14:24   your eyes you know strated you you're [TS]

00:14:26   going to talk in a in a different way [TS]

00:14:29   like but that's just that's just like a [TS]

00:14:31   trick to get your monkey brain to act in [TS]

00:14:35   a certain way that it wouldn't naturally [TS]

00:14:36   do it now this is like the staging of of [TS]

00:14:40   an environment so is you know it's an [TS]

00:14:42   interesting experience [TS]

00:14:43   I not necessarily like a thing that I [TS]

00:14:47   super like to do like live high-stakes [TS]

00:14:53   presentations but it is a it is a [TS]

00:14:55   totally like a learnable skill and it's [TS]

00:15:00   a thing that you can get better at with [TS]

00:15:02   with practice to enjoy it though [TS]

00:15:05   like was it I know I know it's difficult [TS]

00:15:06   it's difficult for me as well like [TS]

00:15:09   leading up to it i just felt terrible [TS]

00:15:12   right like i was just remember I'm [TS]

00:15:14   always like this of any kind of speaking [TS]

00:15:16   thing right until the moment where it [TS]

00:15:18   starts [TS]

00:15:19   I feel terrible and then one soon as it [TS]

00:15:22   begins on i'm good to go but overall [TS]

00:15:25   like I really enjoyed it and I'm very [TS]

00:15:26   happy that we did it and I'm [TS]

00:15:28   really happy that I was able to put the [TS]

00:15:30   surprises in that i was able to be in [TS]

00:15:32   and structure the way to do it because i [TS]

00:15:34   think it made a really fun event for [TS]

00:15:35   people listening but did you actually [TS]

00:15:37   enjoy being a part of it against these [TS]

00:15:41   two separate things here [TS]

00:15:42   the first question is did I enjoy being [TS]

00:15:44   a part of real icon and the answer is [TS]

00:15:46   yes like it was fun to be there it was [TS]

00:15:50   it was fun to have a little secret and [TS]

00:15:53   then surprise for everybody i'm so [TS]

00:15:55   excited i think when you listen to the [TS]

00:15:57   audio and I get to that final segment [TS]

00:15:59   you can hear me like so I'm like so [TS]

00:16:01   giddy at that point [TS]

00:16:03   yeah yeah you're like you're like a [TS]

00:16:04   little boy know something you don't know [TS]

00:16:07   yeah that's exactly what's happening [TS]

00:16:08   there so having the surprise and having [TS]

00:16:11   a little bit of a secret that was fun [TS]

00:16:13   and I also have to say that i am not a [TS]

00:16:17   super social person and this whole week [TS]

00:16:19   has been just incredibly draining in a [TS]

00:16:22   variety of ways for me but again an [TS]

00:16:25   event like real Akon is a thing that I [TS]

00:16:27   can mentally prepare for and I can shift [TS]

00:16:31   into a different mode for and so there's [TS]

00:16:36   like the fun before getting ready for [TS]

00:16:38   the surprise and then on stage is a [TS]

00:16:42   totally different thing [TS]

00:16:44   this is this is like a moment of working [TS]

00:16:46   and like i said before it's it's a skill [TS]

00:16:48   that you can learn to get better at when [TS]

00:16:52   I used to be like a student in school [TS]

00:16:54   like in high school I would hate public [TS]

00:16:56   speaking and I i think a lot of people [TS]

00:16:59   probably have the experience that they [TS]

00:17:01   really really hate public speaking [TS]

00:17:03   because their last time they did it was [TS]

00:17:06   when they had to get up and give you a [TS]

00:17:08   book report or whatever it's cool again [TS]

00:17:10   it's not a fun environment does not it [TS]

00:17:12   was not an enjoyable experience having [TS]

00:17:14   to do that because I go it's cool [TS]

00:17:16   here's you have to give a presentation [TS]

00:17:17   on a bunch of busy work that matters to [TS]

00:17:20   nobody and nobody cares about not even [TS]

00:17:22   your classmates you know nobody's [TS]

00:17:23   interested you're not interested in the [TS]

00:17:25   thing that you're talking about your [TS]

00:17:27   teacher quite frankly is only feigning [TS]

00:17:29   interest in whatever you're talking [TS]

00:17:30   about [TS]

00:17:30   none of your classmates care what you're [TS]

00:17:32   talking about like that experience that [TS]

00:17:34   most people have with public speaking is [TS]

00:17:37   just about the worst possible [TS]

00:17:38   environment to ever experience what [TS]

00:17:40   public speaking is like but i think it [TS]

00:17:42   most people's last memories of it and it [TS]

00:17:45   wasn't until I was in college and had to [TS]

00:17:47   start doing some presentations on [TS]

00:17:50   research material that i was working on [TS]

00:17:52   where it was oh I am now doing a [TS]

00:17:55   presentation on a topic that is of [TS]

00:17:57   interest to me and then to people who [TS]

00:18:00   are in the same field where they are [TS]

00:18:02   interested in it and now that's a very [TS]

00:18:04   different experience and so the relay [TS]

00:18:07   thing falls into that event where the [TS]

00:18:10   i'm giving a presentation and we're [TS]

00:18:12   talking about stuff that is of interest [TS]

00:18:13   to me we're talking about like apple [TS]

00:18:15   stuff and we're talking about [TS]

00:18:16   programming and developments in the [TS]

00:18:18   Apple world and we're doing it in front [TS]

00:18:20   of an audience of people who have flown [TS]

00:18:22   from very far locations to be there [TS]

00:18:25   it's like that that situation is totally [TS]

00:18:26   different because the audience wants you [TS]

00:18:28   to do well and you're talking about a [TS]

00:18:30   thing that is of interest to you [TS]

00:18:33   so it's it's much much easier to do that [TS]

00:18:36   kind of thing than what most people [TS]

00:18:38   think of as public speaking so it's [TS]

00:18:42   still for me it's still high stakes and [TS]

00:18:44   I often have this little bit of [TS]

00:18:46   experience like almost like it's a bit [TS]

00:18:47   of a blackout between stepping on stage [TS]

00:18:49   and stepping off stage like I really do [TS]

00:18:52   just mainly have the memory of Mike's [TS]

00:18:54   terrified eyes on stage and then when i [TS]

00:18:58   think about it now I'm really thinking [TS]

00:19:00   about having listened to the recording [TS]

00:19:01   so it's almost like i black out for a [TS]

00:19:04   little bit so it's hard to say that [TS]

00:19:05   being on stage is super fun but it's [TS]

00:19:10   it's a different experience than what [TS]

00:19:11   most people probably thinking of his [TS]

00:19:13   public speaking but the thing that I [TS]

00:19:14   really did like then is a matte real [TS]

00:19:17   Akon I can prepare for this kind of [TS]

00:19:19   event where one giving a presentation [TS]

00:19:21   and then too I know that I'm going to [TS]

00:19:24   hang out afterwards and say hi to people [TS]

00:19:26   in the audience and and being prepared [TS]

00:19:29   for that like oh this is kind of great [TS]

00:19:32   I get offstage and i have to say is that [TS]

00:19:35   the evening was me just kind of bouncing [TS]

00:19:38   from person to person and hearing a [TS]

00:19:41   similar thing over and over again which [TS]

00:19:44   was great which was people talking about [TS]

00:19:46   how listening to this show with us as I [TS]

00:19:51   they're motivated them to start [TS]

00:19:54   seriously working on side project [TS]

00:19:56   x or has helped them clarify their [TS]

00:20:00   thinking about prioritization in their [TS]

00:20:02   life or help them thinking through the [TS]

00:20:06   reasons for doing stuff making [TS]

00:20:08   intentional decisions and so like that [TS]

00:20:10   what that was really great that was [TS]

00:20:11   really great to just bounce around for [TS]

00:20:13   people in there like you know I know one [TS]

00:20:15   guy come up to me and said he you know [TS]

00:20:17   he started to teach himself programming [TS]

00:20:19   entirely because of listening to the [TS]

00:20:20   show because he just been like thinking [TS]

00:20:21   about it but then realized why don't I [TS]

00:20:23   just just start like this is a really [TS]

00:20:24   sensible way to spend a bunch of my time [TS]

00:20:26   you know and so that kind of thing is [TS]

00:20:29   really nice you feel like you're having [TS]

00:20:31   and an influence on people who are [TS]

00:20:34   hearing what you are saying and it's [TS]

00:20:37   nice to hear that kind of thing for me [TS]

00:20:39   in person in an environment where i am [TS]

00:20:43   prepared for it like people are going to [TS]

00:20:44   come up to me and they're going to say [TS]

00:20:45   hi and then I come ready to have little [TS]

00:20:47   conversations with people so it was it [TS]

00:20:49   was fun it was it was enjoyable [TS]

00:20:51   yeah i'm bringing please you did it and [TS]

00:20:54   even for just that after part working [TS]

00:20:57   people can come up and say the shows [TS]

00:20:59   that I like and what they like about [TS]

00:21:00   lumen i love to talk to people about [TS]

00:21:02   this sort of stuff is just nice to be in [TS]

00:21:06   a place where you have people telling [TS]

00:21:08   you that they enjoy your work and it [TS]

00:21:10   makes a difference and I've heard people [TS]

00:21:12   say to us this to me about context we [TS]

00:21:14   did a meet up in London before we came [TS]

00:21:17   out to san francisco and i met if you go [TS]

00:21:19   there as well he was saying same to the [TS]

00:21:20   simple things like cortex isn't Leo [TS]

00:21:22   inspired me to do the right project that [TS]

00:21:24   i wanted to do stuff like that and it's [TS]

00:21:26   really nice to hear that and it's [TS]

00:21:28   especially nice to hear that stuff when [TS]

00:21:30   you can see someone's face was just [TS]

00:21:33   saying it to you [TS]

00:21:34   yeah i agree it's it's the different [TS]

00:21:37   kind of feedback then it is getting an [TS]

00:21:39   email or or seeing comments on on [TS]

00:21:42   Twitter [TS]

00:21:43   yep it's just different when you're [TS]

00:21:45   shaking the hand of the guy who's really [TS]

00:21:47   happy that a thing in his life is [TS]

00:21:49   different now it's just it's a it's a [TS]

00:21:52   different experience to have that and [TS]

00:21:55   like you say this you know I've never [TS]

00:21:57   been out to WWDC for like this whole [TS]

00:22:00   week in addition to even just the real [TS]

00:22:02   Akon part of it has that characteristic [TS]

00:22:04   of what you were just saying of there's [TS]

00:22:07   this unique feeling when you have [TS]

00:22:09   but group of people who are together who [TS]

00:22:13   are all sharing the same or similar [TS]

00:22:16   interests you know it's it's it's just [TS]

00:22:19   different and so I feel like at that [TS]

00:22:20   relay conivent it was not a bar full of [TS]

00:22:24   strangers like it's it's a room full of [TS]

00:22:27   people and everyone in that room knows [TS]

00:22:30   they can have a starting point for [TS]

00:22:33   conversation with any other person in [TS]

00:22:35   that room right you can just say hey [TS]

00:22:37   well you know what are your favorite [TS]

00:22:38   shows what do you like to listen to or [TS]

00:22:40   you know what did you think about the [TS]

00:22:41   event today and apple like everyone in [TS]

00:22:43   that room can just start a conversation [TS]

00:22:44   with somebody else and you know you have [TS]

00:22:47   a like a commonality and that's that's [TS]

00:22:49   really nice [TS]

00:22:50   I think packs of monkeys they really [TS]

00:22:51   liked that they really need that this [TS]

00:22:53   episode of cortex is brought to you by [TS]

00:22:55   freshbooks first books are on a mission [TS]

00:22:57   to help small business owners save time [TS]

00:23:00   and avoid the stress that comes with [TS]

00:23:01   running their businesses and one of the [TS]

00:23:04   most stressful things about running your [TS]

00:23:05   own business is getting paid anything [TS]

00:23:08   that you can do to make getting paid [TS]

00:23:10   simpler and easier [TS]

00:23:12   you should do and freshbooks helps out [TS]

00:23:15   with that they do pain-free invoicing [TS]

00:23:19   they have created a super intuitive tool [TS]

00:23:21   that makes sending and creating invoices [TS]

00:23:24   very simple your invoices can look great [TS]

00:23:27   with your own company logo you can send [TS]

00:23:29   them out in seconds and most importantly [TS]

00:23:31   freshbooks give your clients as many [TS]

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00:23:41   you with all kinds of different ways and [TS]

00:23:44   the more options you give your clients [TS]

00:23:46   to pay you the faster you get that money [TS]

00:23:49   in fact freshbooks has measured this and [TS]

00:23:52   they know that freshbooks customers get [TS]

00:23:54   paid five days faster on average and as [TS]

00:23:57   someone who runs a business i know this [TS]

00:24:00   is true because while I don't send out a [TS]

00:24:02   lot of invoices I do pay a bunch of [TS]

00:24:05   invoices and I totally dube the [TS]

00:24:07   freshbooks one's faster they have a [TS]

00:24:09   bunch of other nice features where you [TS]

00:24:10   can see if someone has looked at your [TS]

00:24:13   invoice so they cant pretend like they [TS]

00:24:15   never got it [TS]

00:24:16   you can also set up automatic late [TS]

00:24:18   payment reminders to Brooks has a ton of [TS]

00:24:21   other useful features like keeping track [TS]

00:24:23   of [TS]

00:24:23   your expenses automatically importing [TS]

00:24:25   bank transactions and creating expense [TS]

00:24:28   reports getting started with freshbooks [TS]

00:24:30   is extremely simple you don't have to be [TS]

00:24:33   an accountant to use it that's the whole [TS]

00:24:35   point of this book is offering a 30-day [TS]

00:24:38   free trial to listeners of cortex no [TS]

00:24:41   credit card required just go to fresh [TS]

00:24:44   books.com / cortex and enter cortex in [TS]

00:24:49   the how you heard about a section that's [TS]

00:24:51   fresh books.com / cortex thank you so [TS]

00:24:54   much the freshbooks for supporting [TS]

00:24:56   cortex and all of real afm so was here [TS]

00:25:00   we have been engaging in a bunch of [TS]

00:25:01   activities and a lot of those have been [TS]

00:25:03   visits to places and one of the places [TS]

00:25:05   that we visited was facebook [TS]

00:25:07   yeah hold on it's almost like you're [TS]

00:25:08   Mike because I just want to listen to [TS]

00:25:11   understand what I was sold on coming to [TS]

00:25:15   San Francisco next week and what I [TS]

00:25:17   received because yeah you know you know [TS]

00:25:22   there Mike a long time ago Mike [TS]

00:25:26   convinced me to book a hotel room in San [TS]

00:25:28   Francisco with the possibility of coming [TS]

00:25:30   out for real akon & wwc back when this [TS]

00:25:32   was more just like a glimmer in Mike's [TS]

00:25:34   eyes he wanted me to just put but the [TS]

00:25:36   reservation in the hotel room just so I [TS]

00:25:38   had it just in case [TS]

00:25:39   so I did it was fine and since that [TS]

00:25:41   point until right before the event might [TS]

00:25:44   kept telling me this line of all hey [TS]

00:25:47   buddy listen [TS]

00:25:48   come on out gonna be really easy there's [TS]

00:25:51   there's nothing to do during the days [TS]

00:25:53   you're going to have the whole of the [TS]

00:25:55   days to yourself huh really relaxed yep [TS]

00:25:58   and you know maybe that's just like an [TS]

00:26:00   event in the evening but there's nothing [TS]

00:26:02   to do all day long and so I had this [TS]

00:26:05   vision of my trip as i'm going to come [TS]

00:26:08   out here and we're going to get up in [TS]

00:26:10   the morning i'm going to do my usual [TS]

00:26:11   little routine and I'm going to find a [TS]

00:26:14   lovely cafe somewhere gonna go gonna do [TS]

00:26:16   some writing gonna come back to the [TS]

00:26:18   hotel i'll change into my exercise [TS]

00:26:21   outfit i'm going to go for a run along [TS]

00:26:22   the bay i'll come back shower relax get [TS]

00:26:26   lunch spend the afternoon reading you [TS]

00:26:28   know and then maybe in the evening [TS]

00:26:29   there's some dinner i'm going to go to [TS]

00:26:31   and this is going to be my time in San [TS]

00:26:33   Francisco [TS]

00:26:34   no no that is not [TS]

00:26:36   what happened at all in my defense area [TS]

00:26:39   in between so this i thought this is [TS]

00:26:42   your doing not mine in this is now this [TS]

00:26:44   is your doing what you're doing in we [TS]

00:26:47   can listen to the side here in between [TS]

00:26:49   me saying that to you and us being here [TS]

00:26:52   now you said to me you can manage my [TS]

00:26:55   calendar [TS]

00:26:56   yeah but I thought I vaguely thought [TS]

00:26:58   that this was what the evening things [TS]

00:27:00   would be is like oh my you couldn't [TS]

00:27:01   manage my calendar also some daytime [TS]

00:27:03   stuff and you know what like we're going [TS]

00:27:05   to talk about our visit to facebook and [TS]

00:27:07   then at the end of this discussion again [TS]

00:27:09   listen that can decide whatever this for [TS]

00:27:11   something that you are happy you did or [TS]

00:27:13   not but you said to me you look after my [TS]

00:27:16   calendar you invite me to all other [TS]

00:27:18   things and I did that I just I just [TS]

00:27:20   invite you to things they went in your [TS]

00:27:22   calendar [TS]

00:27:23   you know you didn't have to do them you [TS]

00:27:25   live your own life and I just need some [TS]

00:27:26   suggestions [TS]

00:27:28   now I understand I understand but it's [TS]

00:27:30   one of these things where it's like [TS]

00:27:31   little drip drip drip like for the past [TS]

00:27:33   whatever it is three months I feel like [TS]

00:27:35   slowly piece by piece stuff has been [TS]

00:27:37   showing up on my calendar like Oh Mike [TS]

00:27:39   invited to this event Mike invited to [TS]

00:27:40   this event i just kind of accepted them [TS]

00:27:42   and it wasn't until we were here that I [TS]

00:27:43   realized what actually was going to [TS]

00:27:45   occur which is everyday essentially from [TS]

00:27:49   the moment I wake up until the moment I [TS]

00:27:51   sleep there is something to do [TS]

00:27:52   yeah quite frankly there was more on my [TS]

00:27:54   calendar by the end of this week than [TS]

00:27:55   expected there would be like I was [TS]

00:27:57   surprised by it as well [TS]

00:27:59   yeah and so I i had already in [TS]

00:28:02   anticipation of this month of travel and [TS]

00:28:05   this week in particular I've already [TS]

00:28:06   like pulled back the amount of work that [TS]

00:28:09   I was intending to do but even still I [TS]

00:28:12   realize like okay I accomplished gray [TS]

00:28:15   industries business-wise literally [TS]

00:28:17   nothing during this whole trip like i [TS]

00:28:19   didn't open up a text file can reply to [TS]

00:28:21   an email is it's like nothing got done [TS]

00:28:24   in that aspect because there was always [TS]

00:28:26   something else to do and so what we're [TS]

00:28:28   about to talk about is we took this this [TS]

00:28:30   trip anyway we essentially took like a [TS]

00:28:32   whole road trip for an entire day again [TS]

00:28:35   I was gonna have atomizer like nope [TS]

00:28:37   guess what you're going to be in the car [TS]

00:28:39   with three other podcasters driving [TS]

00:28:41   around all day long [TS]

00:28:42   seeing the whole bunch of stuff and then [TS]

00:28:44   you know it was just crazy it was it was [TS]

00:28:46   absolutely was absolutely just a crazy [TS]

00:28:48   busy [TS]

00:28:50   being handsome but not not what I [TS]

00:28:52   imagined which is like this is going to [TS]

00:28:53   be half of vacation with some you know [TS]

00:28:55   dinner events to go to it like nope [TS]

00:28:57   every day all day stuff to do but but [TS]

00:29:00   thank you for arranging it almost always [TS]

00:29:02   a pleasure [TS]

00:29:02   so we took a road trip so it was me and [TS]

00:29:04   you and federal poverty changed even [TS]

00:29:06   Hackett we took a road trip down to [TS]

00:29:08   cupertino Wednesday apples company store [TS]

00:29:11   took some pictures outside of infinite [TS]

00:29:12   loop we want allowed inside i'll be [TS]

00:29:15   working on our side we were specifically [TS]

00:29:19   not allowed inside you got closest you [TS]

00:29:21   what you walked up to the door right [TS]

00:29:23   take a picture yeah you guys were even [TS]

00:29:25   afraid to walk to the the door but we [TS]

00:29:28   weren't allowed in i might become the [TS]

00:29:30   other first I'm going to sign in the [TS]

00:29:31   store that that was that for me I [TS]

00:29:33   decided if we've driven all the way down [TS]

00:29:35   to the one infinite loop campus i'm at [TS]

00:29:37   very least going to walk right up to the [TS]

00:29:39   door and press my face against the glass [TS]

00:29:41   like a sad puppy dog look in his eye [TS]

00:29:43   like thank you we come in right inches [TS]

00:29:47   away on the other side of the glass as a [TS]

00:29:49   security guard give me a severely stern [TS]

00:29:51   ok now you're not coming but if you're [TS]

00:29:53   not allowed in which was the complete [TS]

00:29:55   opposite to our next is on our road trip [TS]

00:29:58   which is to facebook yes where they let [TS]

00:30:00   us go everywhere like we could go [TS]

00:30:02   anywhere we wanted it was amazing it was [TS]

00:30:05   it was essentially a physical [TS]

00:30:07   manifestation of the company's corporate [TS]

00:30:10   policy of Apple nobody comes in we're [TS]

00:30:16   going to we're going to keep it really [TS]

00:30:17   tight and even I know I while we're down [TS]

00:30:20   here there have been some people who [TS]

00:30:21   have been able to gain access like [TS]

00:30:24   through that front door but even they [TS]

00:30:26   have described how you see nothing think [TS]

00:30:29   they take you down just a hallway like I [TS]

00:30:31   hope you enjoy looking at the carpet in [TS]

00:30:32   the hallway and apple and then we're [TS]

00:30:34   gonna kick you right out like this is [TS]

00:30:35   this is as far as the tour goes so even [TS]

00:30:38   even if we had been able to get inside [TS]

00:30:40   we would have seen nothing is what i [TS]

00:30:42   have gathered from everybody who got [TS]

00:30:43   past that security barrier I was like [TS]

00:30:46   okay but that fits with Apple everything [TS]

00:30:48   I know about Apple has the way they work [TS]

00:30:50   and then Facebook was it was almost like [TS]

00:30:53   to welcoming you think [TS]

00:30:56   come on and I accidentally moved in for [TS]

00:30:59   a while [TS]

00:31:00   yeah the the facebook [TS]

00:31:03   offices I don't even know I i keep [TS]

00:31:07   thinking of ways to try to describe what [TS]

00:31:09   this was like [TS]

00:31:10   but that when you walk through the front [TS]

00:31:12   door facebook you then immediately it is [TS]

00:31:15   it's essentially facebook this is how [TS]

00:31:18   i'm going to describe it it is like a [TS]

00:31:19   walled city there's a perimeter of [TS]

00:31:22   buildings around the outside so they do [TS]

00:31:24   have no security barrier that you have [TS]

00:31:26   to pass through but once you pass [TS]

00:31:28   through that the whole interior it was [TS]

00:31:31   it was a town it was a town on the [TS]

00:31:35   inside there were main streets there [TS]

00:31:37   were restaurants there were places to [TS]

00:31:40   get your hair cut there were signed [TS]

00:31:43   manufacturing shops there were bicycles [TS]

00:31:45   there were libraries as an arcade there [TS]

00:31:48   was an arcade it was it was so strange [TS]

00:31:55   and unexpected but it was just oh I feel [TS]

00:31:59   like I've walked through a building to [TS]

00:32:01   get to the other side of this and i have [TS]

00:32:04   been transported to a very bustling busy [TS]

00:32:09   sort of Disney ified college town like [TS]

00:32:14   that that's that's what it was all of a [TS]

00:32:15   sudden the way that you can kind of [TS]

00:32:17   understand this is I went to Facebook's [TS]

00:32:19   offices and got someone [TS]

00:32:21   yeah it's okay that's the waters a good [TS]

00:32:26   as like a don't need to bring some cream [TS]

00:32:28   on i'm going to be offices for the day [TS]

00:32:30   no it was inside outside is what it was [TS]

00:32:33   it was it was it was a town it was just [TS]

00:32:36   a fascinating experience but i also made [TS]

00:32:39   the same mental calculation of do i need [TS]

00:32:40   to put on sunscreen today are now I'm [TS]

00:32:42   going to go see facebook headquarters [TS]

00:32:43   and I mentally thinking of the pictures [TS]

00:32:46   that I've seen is like oh it's some [TS]

00:32:47   gigantic openoffice indoors ok obviously [TS]

00:32:50   I don't need to put on any sunscreen but [TS]

00:32:52   now we went to facebook we all came home [TS]

00:32:54   sunburned because we didn't realize that [TS]

00:32:56   we were just going to a town we're going [TS]

00:32:59   to go to it down we were going to walk [TS]

00:33:00   around we were going to get ice cream [TS]

00:33:02   we're going to have burritos are going [TS]

00:33:03   to sit outside it was it was it was [TS]

00:33:06   entirely unexpected and but we did also [TS]

00:33:10   go to the big open office like they have [TS]

00:33:13   multiple areas and and kind of the [TS]

00:33:16   outside area [TS]

00:33:17   just one part of their overall campus [TS]

00:33:19   and what we did actually go and take a [TS]

00:33:21   look in that what is it we spoke about [TS]

00:33:24   on the show before then with that is [TS]

00:33:26   like the largest open plan office in the [TS]

00:33:27   world that's that's my understanding of [TS]

00:33:30   what it is [TS]

00:33:31   yeah this is the biggest open-plan [TS]

00:33:33   office in the world and when we were [TS]

00:33:36   there they were saying how they're busy [TS]

00:33:39   building like two more of you have the [TS]

00:33:41   same size [TS]

00:33:42   it's like we have the biggest of this [TS]

00:33:43   thing in the world but we need more like [TS]

00:33:45   this is not adequate we need two more of [TS]

00:33:48   the biggest open-plan offices in the [TS]

00:33:50   world so we we did get to walk through [TS]

00:33:55   that enormous space and see it firsthand [TS]

00:34:00   I never felt like I could see the end of [TS]

00:34:03   the room even when we went upstairs and [TS]

00:34:06   kind of like looked over at the kind of [TS]

00:34:10   what was below [TS]

00:34:11   I just never felt like I could see the [TS]

00:34:13   end of it i think they said something [TS]

00:34:15   like the loop of it is a half a mile or [TS]

00:34:18   something like that [TS]

00:34:19   the AIDS it was one of those things [TS]

00:34:21   where they kept giving crazy numbers [TS]

00:34:23   have in here is how many people are in [TS]

00:34:25   this office space [TS]

00:34:26   here's how much it is to walk around the [TS]

00:34:28   perimeter of it and we walked the entire [TS]

00:34:30   length of it and it was a good long time [TS]

00:34:34   ratchet to get from from one end of the [TS]

00:34:35   office to the other and it was it was [TS]

00:34:39   really interesting to see how a company [TS]

00:34:44   has made a decision to lay out a space [TS]

00:34:47   and so i will find for the show notes [TS]

00:34:51   but we did discuss just when we saw [TS]

00:34:53   pictures of the open office layout we [TS]

00:34:55   had a whole show we kind of talked about [TS]

00:34:58   open offices and the facebook layout on [TS]

00:35:03   the inside was was interesting because [TS]

00:35:08   it did feel like a huge space [TS]

00:35:12   I mean that the ceiling was forever [TS]

00:35:13   above you and so everything just felt [TS]

00:35:16   big but you are right that they did a [TS]

00:35:20   quite a job of making sure that you [TS]

00:35:25   never had an unobstructed sight line to [TS]

00:35:28   the other end I think because if you did [TS]

00:35:30   you would have vertigo and just fall on [TS]

00:35:33   the floor and probably shiver for a [TS]

00:35:36   while just having to see what that looks [TS]

00:35:37   like [TS]

00:35:38   but by having these gigantic walls that [TS]

00:35:41   constantly broke up your your sightline [TS]

00:35:43   I i think that had I not known what it [TS]

00:35:47   was before hand I could have walked [TS]

00:35:49   through that entire space and not [TS]

00:35:51   noticed that it was a single [TS]

00:35:54   uninterruptedly room like it could have [TS]

00:35:56   fooled me into feeling like this is a [TS]

00:35:58   series of very large rooms that are [TS]

00:36:01   connected but not have noticed that it [TS]

00:36:03   was ace a single uncontained space so [TS]

00:36:07   that that what i was expecting is this [TS]

00:36:09   this feeling of I'm going to stand at [TS]

00:36:11   one end of this football field and look [TS]

00:36:13   to the other end of the football field [TS]

00:36:14   and see rows upon rows and rows of desks [TS]

00:36:17   you could not have that experience even [TS]

00:36:20   like you said there was one point where [TS]

00:36:22   we went up a little staircase and had [TS]

00:36:24   the had a high level view of the space [TS]

00:36:27   you still your sightline was still [TS]

00:36:29   obstructed I i think that had to be on [TS]

00:36:31   purpose that they didn't want someone to [TS]

00:36:33   be able to stand at the top of the space [TS]

00:36:35   and be able to oversee it all like they [TS]

00:36:38   wanted to constantly cut off those [TS]

00:36:39   spaces is that how you felt about it [TS]

00:36:42   like the dube kind of have that same [TS]

00:36:44   feeling like this is a bunch of big [TS]

00:36:46   rooms or go with your reaction to it [TS]

00:36:48   what that was definitely like anchor [TS]

00:36:51   points that you have Z so was it didn't [TS]

00:36:53   necessarily feel like rooms [TS]

00:36:55   it felt like zones link that there was [TS]

00:36:58   you knew you're in a specific place [TS]

00:37:00   inside of this big open office but I [TS]

00:37:03   still just had like the feeling of it as [TS]

00:37:05   a picture that i took which is kind of [TS]

00:37:08   like from behind you so you can kind of [TS]

00:37:10   like see what a person's view is and it [TS]

00:37:13   really always looked to me like it went [TS]

00:37:16   on forever in any direction that you [TS]

00:37:18   looked at and I don't know how I felt [TS]

00:37:22   about that because it [TS]

00:37:25   I can't even imagine how loud that place [TS]

00:37:29   would be hm when it was full so there [TS]

00:37:33   wasn't really that many people there we [TS]

00:37:35   went on a wednesday which apparently is [TS]

00:37:38   a day with lots of people work from home [TS]

00:37:40   to kind of break up the [TS]

00:37:41   traveling into the week but it felt like [TS]

00:37:45   even though they want a lot of people [TS]

00:37:46   that there was just like a a base level [TS]

00:37:49   of sound constantly and having worked in [TS]

00:37:52   offices with just hundreds of people in [TS]

00:37:54   number open-plan it can get really like [TS]

00:37:57   just loud all the time and I just wonder [TS]

00:38:00   how that would be in an office that is [TS]

00:38:03   if the incredible scale that one is yeah [TS]

00:38:07   i mean it too little side bars here the [TS]

00:38:09   the first is that we took this photo [TS]

00:38:11   it'll be in the show notes we took a [TS]

00:38:13   photo at this spot because this was the [TS]

00:38:15   longest uninterrupted sight line in the [TS]

00:38:18   whole building so it was notable that [TS]

00:38:19   when you turned one corner there was a a [TS]

00:38:22   place that you could just look down for [TS]

00:38:23   forever and so I almost think that photo [TS]

00:38:27   is a bit of an atypical shot from the [TS]

00:38:29   inside of the facebook headquarters but [TS]

00:38:31   the thing you mentioned there and i [TS]

00:38:33   would i would love because now that now [TS]

00:38:35   that i have i have met very many i know [TS]

00:38:38   that a lot of people who work in San [TS]

00:38:40   Francisco tech companies listen to the [TS]

00:38:42   show and I've had this experience now of [TS]

00:38:45   visiting facebook we also visited [TS]

00:38:47   dropbox and I've been in the office [TS]

00:38:50   buildings of a bunch of other like San [TS]

00:38:53   Francisco style tech companies and then [TS]

00:38:55   also in London like I've been in the [TS]

00:38:56   Google headquarters and YouTube [TS]

00:38:58   headquarters and i've i've experienced [TS]

00:39:01   the same thing over and over again which [TS]

00:39:04   is every time I go in one of these [TS]

00:39:06   open-plan offices it seems like nobody [TS]

00:39:10   is at the desk so I I've seen this over [TS]

00:39:13   and over again same and so feel like [TS]

00:39:15   nobody works in these companies i never [TS]

00:39:16   cited for their desks and I've done it [TS]

00:39:18   this time I've done it last year soon as [TS]

00:39:20   you have done in London and it always [TS]

00:39:22   feels like I don't understand why [TS]

00:39:24   they're making these offices bigger [TS]

00:39:26   because nobody's here [TS]

00:39:27   it's very strange but the thing that's [TS]

00:39:29   weird to me is every time I ask every [TS]

00:39:32   tour guide at every one of these [TS]

00:39:34   buildings about it and there is always [TS]

00:39:37   an explanation but they will always say [TS]

00:39:39   Oh today's a special day you know [TS]

00:39:41   Wednesday's people don't work in the [TS]

00:39:42   offices like okay but i have been [TS]

00:39:46   bumping into people who have been in [TS]

00:39:47   facebook and other days of the week and [TS]

00:39:50   every one of them i have asked give me [TS]

00:39:52   an estimate for how many people were [TS]

00:39:54   sitting at their desk when [TS]

00:39:55   you walk through that space and nobody's [TS]

00:39:57   given a number higher than thirty [TS]

00:39:59   percent right when they were when they [TS]

00:40:00   were there as like it when you ask that [TS]

00:40:02   they say that there was something going [TS]

00:40:03   on and everybody says the same thing [TS]

00:40:05   like oh yeah you always get some reason [TS]

00:40:06   for why and I've had the same thing like [TS]

00:40:08   when we went to dropbox it was the same [TS]

00:40:10   thing like oh we've just moved into a [TS]

00:40:12   new building so there's not that many [TS]

00:40:13   people here but then when I go to the [TS]

00:40:15   YouTube headquarters and look around and [TS]

00:40:16   it's the same thing it's like rows and [TS]

00:40:18   rows of desks maybe fifteen percent of [TS]

00:40:20   people at the desk and I ask the person [TS]

00:40:21   giving me the torrent youtube like what [TS]

00:40:23   where is everybody they always like [TS]

00:40:24   every single time there's some reason [TS]

00:40:27   and so on an individual basis you can [TS]

00:40:31   accept each reason at its face value but [TS]

00:40:35   when I compare it to the aggregate of [TS]

00:40:37   okay i have now been to 10 different of [TS]

00:40:41   these kind of offices in different [TS]

00:40:43   locations and it's always the same [TS]

00:40:45   experience and that stage like I have to [TS]

00:40:48   just discount whatever the individual [TS]

00:40:50   reasons are and i have to fall back on [TS]

00:40:55   I think what we discussed when we when [TS]

00:40:56   we first talked about these open-plan [TS]

00:40:57   offices in my experience of google was [TS]

00:41:00   the people who work here will do [TS]

00:41:03   anything to not be at their desks like [TS]

00:41:07   maybe you have enough employees on the [TS]

00:41:09   roles that you could have everybody [TS]

00:41:10   sitting in the same spot at the same [TS]

00:41:11   time but for whatever reason like people [TS]

00:41:13   are trying to work anywhere else that [TS]

00:41:16   they possibly can and like that's what [TS]

00:41:18   I've seen in other places and so the [TS]

00:41:20   facebook one it seemed like the same [TS]

00:41:22   experience of ok we're going into these [TS]

00:41:24   open-plan offices and you know the day [TS]

00:41:27   we were there it couldn't have been more [TS]

00:41:29   than ten percent of those desks were [TS]

00:41:31   filled but then you go outside it's like [TS]

00:41:33   oh it's a huge bustling town i can think [TS]

00:41:35   everybody's walking around like it [TS]

00:41:36   suddenly busy and so I just I find [TS]

00:41:40   myself really wondering about these [TS]

00:41:44   office setups and and having the same [TS]

00:41:47   feeling of that you do of like how [TS]

00:41:51   efficient are these or i can also just [TS]

00:41:55   keep finding myself were running through [TS]

00:41:56   the numbers of all of these companies [TS]

00:41:58   and thinking what are all of these [TS]

00:42:01   people doing like I have a hard time [TS]

00:42:03   understanding think what is occurring in [TS]

00:42:07   these enormous spaces [TS]

00:42:09   and i don't know like it sometimes I [TS]

00:42:13   just find myself wondering when people [TS]

00:42:18   tell you for example how big the company [TS]

00:42:20   was when they had a lot of users and [TS]

00:42:23   then you know they they quadruple the [TS]

00:42:25   the number of users the company has but [TS]

00:42:27   the staff has gone up by three hundred [TS]

00:42:30   percent I feel like you've got drupal [TS]

00:42:31   users but you three hundred percent [TS]

00:42:34   employees right are you a thousand [TS]

00:42:35   percent employees it seems like you know [TS]

00:42:38   again from talking to tell these people [TS]

00:42:40   to people about the substance things [TS]

00:42:42   like it takes 50 people to get the first [TS]

00:42:45   five million people but then take 5,000 [TS]

00:42:48   people to get the next five million yeah [TS]

00:42:50   and something about this just always [TS]

00:42:52   strikes me as strange but but I want [TS]

00:42:55   what I wonder is like are these [TS]

00:42:56   companies paying a huge number of people [TS]

00:43:00   but those like those additional [TS]

00:43:01   individuals are working at like ten [TS]

00:43:03   percent capacity but it but like it just [TS]

00:43:06   doesn't even matter because the company [TS]

00:43:08   has so much money that it can spend that [TS]

00:43:10   it still gets a return on investment for [TS]

00:43:13   someone who's that their desk like a [TS]

00:43:14   tiny amount of time I don't know there's [TS]

00:43:16   a soul in this those initial people [TS]

00:43:19   potentially like company founders and [TS]

00:43:22   people that were in at the beginning you [TS]

00:43:25   know maybe those people because it did [TS]

00:43:28   the company means more than they work [TS]

00:43:30   differently to people that get hired to [TS]

00:43:31   do a job [TS]

00:43:33   well I assume that that has to be the [TS]

00:43:34   case and I also assume there's a bit of [TS]

00:43:36   almost like anthropic principle going on [TS]

00:43:40   here of that the companies that are able [TS]

00:43:42   to have millions of users with 10 [TS]

00:43:44   employees those exist because they have [TS]

00:43:48   they happen to get the right collection [TS]

00:43:50   of 10 super productive people right at [TS]

00:43:53   the start [TS]

00:43:53   yep and you wouldn't hear about that [TS]

00:43:55   company if it didn't have those exact [TS]

00:43:58   right 10 people and so when you're [TS]

00:44:01   expanding outward from their accurate [TS]

00:44:03   your that the company is so successful [TS]

00:44:05   because it like it [TS]

00:44:07   it rolled you know it 12 every time on [TS]

00:44:10   on the first dozen employees that it [TS]

00:44:13   that it hired like it is it's incredibly [TS]

00:44:15   statistically unlikely but that's also [TS]

00:44:17   why the company was incredibly [TS]

00:44:19   statistically unlikely successful it's [TS]

00:44:22   just [TS]

00:44:22   I don't know I guess I just keep finding [TS]

00:44:24   my mind circling back to this and this [TS]

00:44:27   this particular i almost want to sit in [TS]

00:44:29   the cafeteria of a bunch of these [TS]

00:44:31   companies all day long and just talk to [TS]

00:44:34   everybody and be like this what do you [TS]

00:44:35   do and they get the show me on a [TS]

00:44:38   spreadsheet how much time you're [TS]

00:44:39   actually working on stuff here like how [TS]

00:44:42   many hours is your butt in the seat that [TS]

00:44:44   is theoretically assigned to you versus [TS]

00:44:46   how much time do you spend in the [TS]

00:44:49   beanbag chair in the lobby like I just I [TS]

00:44:51   just there's something about this i [TS]

00:44:52   don't understand but find my mind [TS]

00:44:55   continually circling back on like it was [TS]

00:44:58   it was absolutely fascinating to to [TS]

00:45:02   visit facebook but I almost found my [TS]

00:45:06   mind like unsettled by the whole [TS]

00:45:09   experience and it was it was a weird [TS]

00:45:11   moment we're so they have they have this [TS]

00:45:14   enormous open-plan office and then the [TS]

00:45:18   whole roof of this building is this [TS]

00:45:21   stunning park [TS]

00:45:24   yeah it's a is that we climb up the [TS]

00:45:26   circular staircase and all of a sudden [TS]

00:45:28   we are in the middle of of just like [TS]

00:45:30   this field of wheat almost like this is [TS]

00:45:33   just like waist-high blowing grass in [TS]

00:45:36   the wind and there's trees and flowers [TS]

00:45:39   like hummingbirds are zipping by and [TS]

00:45:42   there's guys he was extracted I've ever [TS]

00:45:44   seen those gonna take me away [TS]

00:45:46   yeah you know and it's and we're [TS]

00:45:48   standing up there and see it was [TS]

00:45:49   suddenly like you have this is like view [TS]

00:45:52   for miles around before looking across [TS]

00:45:54   like this huge Martian you see this city [TS]

00:45:57   in the in the distance and it felt like [TS]

00:45:59   I was transported to San Francisco's [TS]

00:46:01   version of New York's Central Park all [TS]

00:46:04   of a sudden like this is an incredibly [TS]

00:46:06   well designed park and it has all these [TS]

00:46:08   little paths and but after walking [TS]

00:46:12   through what felt like the town from the [TS]

00:46:16   nineteen sixties TV show from in the UK [TS]

00:46:18   the prisoner like they were walking [TS]

00:46:19   through this manufactured bizarre [TS]

00:46:22   pretendo town and then we go into this [TS]

00:46:24   enormous open office space that is [TS]

00:46:27   bizarrely understaffed but there's a [TS]

00:46:30   reason but maybe it's always like this [TS]

00:46:32   because it's like this everywhere that i [TS]

00:46:34   go and then all of a sudden we're trying [TS]

00:46:36   ported to take this fantastic park and [TS]

00:46:41   then we're sitting in a gazebo hanging [TS]

00:46:43   out with everybody i really felt my [TS]

00:46:45   brain with which is like I cannot accept [TS]

00:46:47   any more of this like my brain was just [TS]

00:46:49   at capacity for experience and scale it [TS]

00:46:53   was like this is this is just [TS]

00:46:55   overwhelming in a way that is hard to [TS]

00:46:58   define like I don't know if you had that [TS]

00:47:01   same experience but I was like I felt [TS]

00:47:03   like my brain was really just ready to [TS]

00:47:05   shut down by the end of the facebook [TS]

00:47:07   door I just don't think i could work in [TS]

00:47:12   an environment like it is a fantastic [TS]

00:47:14   environment but having worked in offices [TS]

00:47:18   moon [TS]

00:47:20   I just think hard struggle with it now [TS]

00:47:22   now we must set this I would love to be [TS]

00:47:26   in that environment working on my stuff [TS]

00:47:28   lose it's got everything I need in it [TS]

00:47:32   right like I could go there and I have [TS]

00:47:35   access to all these incredible resources [TS]

00:47:37   but my feeling is just like I don't know [TS]

00:47:40   if I could do it inside of an [TS]

00:47:42   organization but I think that's more of [TS]

00:47:44   Mike's problem with organizations issue [TS]

00:47:47   then right Facebook's issue because they [TS]

00:47:50   if you want to work in a company they [TS]

00:47:53   have provided you with like the perfect [TS]

00:47:56   office it has yeah everything and there [TS]

00:47:59   are a lot of complaints that people make [TS]

00:48:01   about this type of thing when i was [TS]

00:48:03   there and like you know you can laugh [TS]

00:48:05   about the fact that has a barbershop in [TS]

00:48:07   it and stuff like that but when you're [TS]

00:48:09   there is so far away from anything like [TS]

00:48:11   we're facebook is located [TS]

00:48:13   there's nothing around so if they don't [TS]

00:48:15   provide it people can have access to [TS]

00:48:17   these communities yet without a doubt [TS]

00:48:21   lady if you are we will put a link in [TS]

00:48:23   the show notes but if you like just look [TS]

00:48:25   at the satellite map of where Facebook [TS]

00:48:28   is it makes sense that they had built a [TS]

00:48:31   little walled city because it all around [TS]

00:48:33   it is just wrapping the highway there's [TS]

00:48:35   nowhere to walk to outside of it and so [TS]

00:48:38   I like if I was up the burg and I was [TS]

00:48:40   going to build a gigantic company I [TS]

00:48:43   would have done the same thing [TS]

00:48:44   Heda did in this idea of okay we just [TS]

00:48:47   need to build all [TS]

00:48:49   all of the amenities that a literal [TS]

00:48:51   towns worth of people could need right [TS]

00:48:54   we're going to need parks because we're [TS]

00:48:56   going to need a place for people to do [TS]

00:48:57   their laundry [TS]

00:48:58   we're going to need entertainment for [TS]

00:48:59   people I I would have done the exact [TS]

00:49:02   same thing out and I was saying to [TS]

00:49:04   someone i am half surprised they don't [TS]

00:49:07   have apartments for rent in that complex [TS]

00:49:09   I think they could build an apartment [TS]

00:49:11   building and have some of their [TS]

00:49:12   employees just live there and i'm sure [TS]

00:49:13   people would happily live there because [TS]

00:49:16   that Facebook campus is better than many [TS]

00:49:19   towns i have passed through on travels [TS]

00:49:22   in my life safety as well yeah yeah like [TS]

00:49:25   a yeah isn't as a fantastic question [TS]

00:49:27   what is the crime rate on the facebook [TS]

00:49:30   campus i bet it is near zero [TS]

00:49:32   ya know like I ask somebody can you [TS]

00:49:34   sleep here [TS]

00:49:35   mhm and they would like you can take a [TS]

00:49:37   nap but you constantly better you know [TS]

00:49:41   like i imagine that has like a do not [TS]

00:49:43   sleep here like just don't do it right [TS]

00:49:45   because if people find out you're doing [TS]

00:49:47   that that's terrible [TS]

00:49:49   like just stop it dr. ground right but [TS]

00:49:52   you can take naps because i was [TS]

00:49:53   basically i was i was angling for like [TS]

00:49:56   yeah some people do because that [TS]

00:49:58   basically means yes some people live [TS]

00:50:00   here [TS]

00:50:00   right exactly do they do yeah and and [TS]

00:50:03   this this is also where I remember a [TS]

00:50:05   camera with the details but some story [TS]

00:50:08   came out about like some guy who was [TS]

00:50:09   living it was living in a rented van [TS]

00:50:11   like you gotyou got fired but he and his [TS]

00:50:13   buddy just still lived on the campus if [TS]

00:50:15   you're working on there's talk about for [TS]

00:50:17   something like having been to facebook [TS]

00:50:19   is totally understandable like how does [TS]

00:50:20   that happen that you could just lose [TS]

00:50:22   track of person that we keep living in [TS]

00:50:23   your company like this is how it happens [TS]

00:50:25   because it's a town like you could lose [TS]

00:50:27   track of people in a town haha yeah it's [TS]

00:50:32   it was it was very it was very [TS]

00:50:34   overwhelming as you said i also have the [TS]

00:50:36   same experience of okay if if my brain [TS]

00:50:41   got used to this after the first couple [TS]

00:50:42   of days of just everything is new [TS]

00:50:44   everything is overwhelming [TS]

00:50:46   it is in its own way it's a fantastic [TS]

00:50:48   environment and I could see like you [TS]

00:50:50   said somehow being my own person working [TS]

00:50:54   in this environment where everything is [TS]

00:50:55   incredibly convenient you know but it's [TS]

00:50:58   as I if I was going to be an employee of [TS]

00:51:01   a company [TS]

00:51:02   the the facebook office i feel like i'm [TS]

00:51:04   not sure that i could work here and it [TS]

00:51:08   was interesting because we had the [TS]

00:51:09   comparison just a couple days later [TS]

00:51:11   where we went to the dropbox [TS]

00:51:13   headquarters which also had a lot of the [TS]

00:51:17   kind of crazy San Francisco stuff of the [TS]

00:51:19   of the way like this bunch of open [TS]

00:51:21   offices and we have a pink carpeting [TS]

00:51:23   over here here here sick because the [TS]

00:51:26   gigantic statue of like a silver panda [TS]

00:51:28   bear that we have put in the center of [TS]

00:51:29   the office like they have all of this [TS]

00:51:31   kind of crazy stuff so there is a [TS]

00:51:33   similarity of feeling like the dropbox [TS]

00:51:36   place as far as an office went like the [TS]

00:51:39   scale of it was smaller and I thought [TS]

00:51:41   okay if i was going to be an employee of [TS]

00:51:42   a company and i had to choose what you [TS]

00:51:44   want to work at Facebook where do you [TS]

00:51:46   want to work at Dropbox like just based [TS]

00:51:47   on the environments like okay the [TS]

00:51:48   dropbox one was just like calmer like [TS]

00:51:52   especially I was really aware that it [TS]

00:51:54   was visually calmer and like you said [TS]

00:51:57   before even though there was absolutely [TS]

00:51:59   nobody in that gigantic open office when [TS]

00:52:01   we were there except maybe ten percent [TS]

00:52:03   of the seeds something about the way it [TS]

00:52:06   was set up like the dumbest things ever [TS]

00:52:10   but it felt like there was like psychic [TS]

00:52:12   noise like I kept thinking it is again I [TS]

00:52:15   was here with the decibel meter it would [TS]

00:52:17   not be registering a much sound but but [TS]

00:52:21   I felt like it was loud [TS]

00:52:23   I feel like it was the way that we were [TS]

00:52:25   approaching it right so when we were in [TS]

00:52:27   dropbox we are enclosed by these walls [TS]

00:52:30   are around us so we feel the space more [TS]

00:52:33   so we were spring but in the facebook [TS]

00:52:35   one like there's no walls like the walls [TS]

00:52:38   are a mile away [TS]

00:52:39   yeah so I think we feel like we're [TS]

00:52:40   outside so we're using our outside [TS]

00:52:42   forces that yeah that's a good point [TS]

00:52:44   because we notice it right away in the [TS]

00:52:45   dropbox headquarters of we were [TS]

00:52:47   whispering as we're walking through all [TS]

00:52:49   the various bases but it felt like there [TS]

00:52:50   was a step actual same amount of people [TS]

00:52:53   in both what if I like right yeah it did [TS]

00:52:55   it very very strange i i i think i'm [TS]

00:52:58   following the way that you feel about [TS]

00:53:00   this if i was going to work for a [TS]

00:53:02   company i was going to take a job again [TS]

00:53:05   I would prefer to be in an environment [TS]

00:53:06   like Dropbox but if i was going to take [TS]

00:53:09   my own personal business and put it [TS]

00:53:12   somewhere i would want to do that inside [TS]

00:53:14   of face [TS]

00:53:15   book inside right office and maybe like [TS]

00:53:18   you know the way that they set up I [TS]

00:53:19   don't know the organizational structure [TS]

00:53:21   but you might kind of feel like that [TS]

00:53:23   there you know and if that's the case i [TS]

00:53:25   can see how it would work for people [TS]

00:53:27   they feel like they're running their [TS]

00:53:29   business insider facebook but that [TS]

00:53:30   business happens to be such ads right I [TS]

00:53:33   can see it working [TS]

00:53:35   yeah and it's certainly from the people [TS]

00:53:36   that we spoke to it did have that [TS]

00:53:38   feeling of there are there are a bunch [TS]

00:53:42   of companies within this company just [TS]

00:53:44   doing their own thing sort of unrelated [TS]

00:53:46   to stuff that other people are doing so [TS]

00:53:49   and and they have a thing like between [TS]

00:53:51   two companies dropbox seemed like people [TS]

00:53:53   whatever almost like working and there [TS]

00:53:55   was a sensitive people getting stuff [TS]

00:53:57   done [TS]

00:53:58   are they following that like in the [TS]

00:53:59   cafeteria for lunch there people moving [TS]

00:54:01   around fast facebook everyone was so [TS]

00:54:04   chilled so yeah it was I actually looked [TS]

00:54:08   around the dropbox cafeteria and the [TS]

00:54:10   thing that caught my attention was [TS]

00:54:11   everybody eating in the dropbox [TS]

00:54:15   cafeteria they were leaning forward like [TS]

00:54:17   they were leaning forward and talking to [TS]

00:54:19   the people at their table and Facebook [TS]

00:54:22   looking around at least we were sitting [TS]

00:54:23   I was really aware that everybody was [TS]

00:54:25   like leaning back in their chairs and [TS]

00:54:26   talking just because it felt like we are [TS]

00:54:28   a festival or something had to have [TS]

00:54:31   really did it really did so yeah I I [TS]

00:54:34   will reiterate your sentiments about [TS]

00:54:37   working on our own things versus working [TS]

00:54:38   for a company in which environment would [TS]

00:54:40   we choose i think that is a that is an [TS]

00:54:42   accurate summation of the experience of [TS]

00:54:45   of seeing use places find a little thing [TS]

00:54:49   that I just I just want to talk about [TS]

00:54:51   with facebook intention to everybody is [TS]

00:54:53   my favorite little detail from the store [TS]

00:54:54   which was Zuckerberg conference room / [TS]

00:55:00   office you know I was wondering if you [TS]

00:55:02   were going to bring this up i just i [TS]

00:55:05   have to bring this up because just as [TS]

00:55:09   the Apple and Facebook campuses [TS]

00:55:11   themselves were a a reflection of the [TS]

00:55:14   company's corporate policies Zuckerberg [TS]

00:55:17   office to me was just a perfect visual [TS]

00:55:21   metaphor for what facebook kids and so [TS]

00:55:25   in this tremendously long office where [TS]

00:55:29   there are people absolutely everywhere [TS]

00:55:31   at the end of it we get to Zuckerberg [TS]

00:55:35   conference room / office space and what [TS]

00:55:39   you have to do what you have to imagine [TS]

00:55:40   listen area is we're standing in this [TS]

00:55:43   big space there our desks absolutely [TS]

00:55:46   everywhere in every direction and in [TS]

00:55:48   this center of these desks in the [TS]

00:55:52   absolute center like is not against any [TS]

00:55:54   wall right not against any wall or [TS]

00:55:56   anything [TS]

00:55:57   there is a glass cube and his Zuckerberg [TS]

00:56:00   office so if he was in the inside of [TS]

00:56:04   that we could have just walked around [TS]

00:56:07   the outside of his glass office and [TS]

00:56:10   looked at him from every single angle [TS]

00:56:13   like oh look your life and work exposed [TS]

00:56:17   to everybody welcome to facebook [TS]

00:56:20   it was amazing it was and I was so sad [TS]

00:56:24   it wasn't there you know really said [TS]

00:56:28   yeah it was it was weird and I just kept [TS]

00:56:33   wondering like what happens when you [TS]

00:56:35   have no meat like meetings with [TS]

00:56:37   important people from other that you [TS]

00:56:39   can't you can't have a secret meeting in [TS]

00:56:41   that office and I eat like there must [TS]

00:56:43   Zuckerberg you must have some secret [TS]

00:56:47   bunker somewhere so that when you're [TS]

00:56:48   hammering out deals with apple or you're [TS]

00:56:50   angry at each other about your [TS]

00:56:51   background audio processing that was [TS]

00:56:53   totally a mistake I there must be a [TS]

00:56:55   place that you can go so that people [TS]

00:56:57   don't see you like arguing with apple [TS]

00:57:00   executives about whatever but you can't [TS]

00:57:02   you can't possibly be doing it in that [TS]

00:57:04   office it was just it was so weird but [TS]

00:57:08   so perfectly facebook inside the arcade [TS]

00:57:10   that we went to if you put the konami [TS]

00:57:12   code into one of the machines authority [TS]

00:57:14   like this [TS]

00:57:14   activate it has to take you down to the [TS]

00:57:17   this like a burglar somewhere below the [TS]

00:57:20   floor facebook somewhere in facebook [TS]

00:57:22   there are secret passages to other [TS]

00:57:24   locations i refuse to believe otherwise [TS]

00:57:26   i want to thank smile for their support [TS]

00:57:30   of cortex and today let me tell you a [TS]

00:57:32   little bit about PDF pen it's time for [TS]

00:57:34   you to break that cycle of scaling [TS]

00:57:36   printing signing and faxing right so [TS]

00:57:38   let's say somebody send you something [TS]

00:57:40   the email you a PDF that you need to [TS]

00:57:41   sign [TS]

00:57:42   currently you need to print it in to [TS]

00:57:44   sign it they need to scan it and you can [TS]

00:57:46   email it back [TS]

00:57:47   what if you don't have a scanner then [TS]

00:57:49   you're printing maybe you're signing and [TS]

00:57:50   God forbid you're faxing it's time to [TS]

00:57:53   adopt the paperless lifestyle is time [TS]

00:57:55   for you to get your hands on PDF pen the [TS]

00:57:58   ultimate tool for editing pdfs pdf [TS]

00:58:01   pattern will let you take control of all [TS]

00:58:03   of the PDS that come your way you can [TS]

00:58:06   very easily make corrections and redact [TS]

00:58:08   sensitive information you can add text [TS]

00:58:10   and graphics to PDF as well as super [TS]

00:58:12   simply you can number pages and so much [TS]

00:58:14   more whenever you need PDF pattern has [TS]

00:58:17   got you covered and the new PDF n8 is [TS]

00:58:20   going to further enrich your PDF [TS]

00:58:22   creation and editing experience you can [TS]

00:58:24   now make audio notes that you can record [TS]

00:58:26   in place maybe wanna leave a note for [TS]

00:58:28   yourself later on each one a corner [TS]

00:58:30   however will that be you can access file [TS]

00:58:32   attachments you can export to microsoft [TS]

00:58:34   word without the need of an internet [TS]

00:58:36   connection to do all of that and you'll [TS]

00:58:38   be able to sign documents now with [TS]

00:58:40   digital signatures allowing you to send [TS]

00:58:42   and receive PDS of a greater degree of [TS]

00:58:44   trust than ever before [TS]

00:58:46   PDF tone is an essential tool in my talk [TS]

00:58:50   it on all of the devices that I own [TS]

00:58:52   learn more about PDF pen right now smile [TS]

00:58:55   software.com / cortex thank you to smile [TS]

00:58:58   for their support of this show really a [TS]

00:59:00   fan [TS]

00:59:01   all right so listen I need to talk to [TS]

00:59:05   you for a minute directly because we [TS]

00:59:10   experienced vr + 44 me from mike this [TS]

00:59:18   was the first time that we had a [TS]

00:59:19   particular experience like with the [TS]

00:59:21   equipment that they had available there [TS]

00:59:24   and since our day at Facebook we have [TS]

00:59:28   been talking to lots of people about [TS]

00:59:32   this experience with VR and I need I [TS]

00:59:35   feel the need to kind of put something [TS]

00:59:38   out there at first because you're going [TS]

00:59:40   to be listening to us talking about this [TS]

00:59:42   thing but it is a very hard thing to [TS]

00:59:46   talk about and i think i have finally [TS]

00:59:48   settled on the metaphor which is [TS]

00:59:52   oftentimes people who have done [TS]

00:59:56   hallucinatory drugs will attempt to [TS]

00:59:59   explain to [TS]

00:59:59   explain to [TS]

01:00:00   you what the experience was like and [TS]

01:00:03   they are just limited by the words in [TS]

01:00:06   the English language and people who have [TS]

01:00:10   done hallucinatory drugs will also say [TS]

01:00:13   something like it was an experience that [TS]

01:00:15   just change them but they have a hard [TS]

01:00:18   time articulating what that means but [TS]

01:00:22   they say that it is a thing that will [TS]

01:00:23   stick with them now for a month after [TS]

01:00:26   doing the actual drugs themselves and i [TS]

01:00:29   feel ya like what we are going to be now [TS]

01:00:32   is the equivalent of two guys who [TS]

01:00:35   dropped acid together and are going to [TS]

01:00:38   try to explain to you what it was like [TS]

01:00:41   so we're going to try to do our best but [TS]

01:00:43   I think keeping that in mind can kinda [TS]

01:00:46   like help you along with this [TS]

01:00:48   conversation [TS]

01:00:49   yep and it also has my favorite quality [TS]

01:00:53   of the experience of trying to explain a [TS]

01:00:55   dream to someone and what you're trying [TS]

01:00:58   to do is explain the emotional content [TS]

01:01:01   of an event not the event itself and so [TS]

01:01:05   like that there is a there's a story [TS]

01:01:06   that like there's a moment that i had vr [TS]

01:01:08   that I keep trying to explain to people [TS]

01:01:09   and every time I do it I feel like I'm [TS]

01:01:12   explaining why something that that [TS]

01:01:13   happened in the dream was really [TS]

01:01:15   important so I just wanted to put that [TS]

01:01:17   out there to try to help you with this [TS]

01:01:19   conversation like listen to the [TS]

01:01:21   emotional content of what we are [TS]

01:01:24   describing not necessarily like the [TS]

01:01:26   literal description of of what has [TS]

01:01:29   happened like the next 20 minutes are [TS]

01:01:32   gonna just sound like the most [TS]

01:01:34   hyperbolic two people could probably [TS]

01:01:36   ever be [TS]

01:01:37   yeah but everything is the four of us to [TS]

01:01:40   tried it all talk about this the same [TS]

01:01:43   way that that's that's why I like I feel [TS]

01:01:45   the need to say this because I know what [TS]

01:01:47   we are about to sound like and I didn't [TS]

01:01:50   I know listener how hyperbolic we are [TS]

01:01:53   going to sound to you but it is because [TS]

01:01:55   we are attempting to describe the thing [TS]

01:01:57   that is fundamentally impossible to [TS]

01:02:01   describe like it must be experienced it [TS]

01:02:04   cannot be described in the same way that [TS]

01:02:06   I have heard people describe to me what [TS]

01:02:08   hallucinatory drugs are like but since i [TS]

01:02:10   have never tried them like I just know [TS]

01:02:13   that there is that there is an [TS]

01:02:14   experience that the brain can have that [TS]

01:02:16   I haven't had that cannot be [TS]

01:02:18   communicated in words and I think VR is [TS]

01:02:22   exactly thats there is an experience [TS]

01:02:24   that can be had in VR that is impossible [TS]

01:02:27   to explain in words so Mike would you [TS]

01:02:31   like to explain in words but i'm going [TS]

01:02:33   to dive head in and say that my life has [TS]

01:02:36   changed right there's something [TS]

01:02:38   significant has happened in my life now [TS]

01:02:40   that means it will never be the same as [TS]

01:02:44   before because i have experienced [TS]

01:02:45   something but I didn't really know was [TS]

01:02:49   possible [TS]

01:02:50   who and one of the things that we need [TS]

01:02:52   to mention this juncture is the setup [TS]

01:02:55   that we were given access to so right i [TS]

01:02:59   have used VR headsets i have used the [TS]

01:03:03   oculus before but always with a [TS]

01:03:06   traditional game control i have not our [TS]

01:03:11   had not played the HTC vive for v4 [TS]

01:03:14   however it said which comes with their [TS]

01:03:17   kind of hand controllers we were given [TS]

01:03:20   access to the oculus rift demo unit [TS]

01:03:23   along with some of their touch [TS]

01:03:24   controller demo units which was supposed [TS]

01:03:27   to go on sale when the product was [TS]

01:03:29   launched but were delayed and they're [TS]

01:03:31   going to be coming out very soon if not [TS]

01:03:33   basically by the time you hear this [TS]

01:03:35   they'll be available for people to [TS]

01:03:36   purchase then we were given access to [TS]

01:03:38   this whole set of equipment and is this [TS]

01:03:41   set of equipment that has enabled the [TS]

01:03:44   experience that we've had [TS]

01:03:45   yeah so the the equipment that we were [TS]

01:03:47   given for people who are not familiar [TS]

01:03:49   with the various levels of ER you just [TS]

01:03:53   dimly aware that oh there's be our stuff [TS]

01:03:54   now that we had the helmet that you put [TS]

01:03:57   on that completely encapsulated it's [TS]

01:03:59   your field Division so everything you [TS]

01:04:01   see is is it like a 3d projection in [TS]

01:04:04   front of you which was very surprised [TS]

01:04:07   worked with my classes [TS]

01:04:09   yes I quite big frames right i mean [TS]

01:04:12   every time I took it off my glasses went [TS]

01:04:14   with the rift but but I could wear it [TS]

01:04:18   with my glasses [TS]

01:04:19   yeah I is I specifically put on contacts [TS]

01:04:22   because I was like I want to experience [TS]

01:04:23   this unobstructed exactly my glasses are [TS]

01:04:26   going to have [TS]

01:04:26   have any hindrance and all i want to put [TS]

01:04:28   on contact but I want to test it I want [TS]

01:04:30   to see you up to it now I was all like [TS]

01:04:34   my body is ready [TS]

01:04:35   I can't bear to this I so then you also [TS]

01:04:39   have to also have these headphones that [TS]

01:04:41   go over your ears [TS]

01:04:42   yeah but then the the key piece which at [TS]

01:04:45   the time that we are recording is not [TS]

01:04:46   available to the general public are [TS]

01:04:49   these two hand controller so that their [TS]

01:04:52   two little controllers one for each hand [TS]

01:04:54   they have a pair of triggers on them and [TS]

01:04:57   a couple of buttons on them but they are [TS]

01:04:59   able to act as virtual hands in the [TS]

01:05:05   world and I i think mike is like am I I [TS]

01:05:09   had zero experience of VR and this was [TS]

01:05:12   perfect because i was actually kind of [TS]

01:05:14   waiting to try a system like this I [TS]

01:05:19   almost didn't want to experience just [TS]

01:05:22   the 360-degree field Division that you [TS]

01:05:24   can look around i felt like i had a [TS]

01:05:26   pretty good understanding of what that [TS]

01:05:27   was i wanted to experience something [TS]

01:05:29   where no I have hands in the world as [TS]

01:05:31   well because I suspected that there that [TS]

01:05:36   the brain would have a particular [TS]

01:05:38   reaction to this which is exactly what i [TS]

01:05:40   experienced and talking to somebody else [TS]

01:05:43   who was with us there on the day who [TS]

01:05:44   like owns an oculus headset and plays [TS]

01:05:47   tons of games but plays them with a [TS]

01:05:49   regular xbox controller like a regular [TS]

01:05:51   handheld controller [TS]

01:05:52   he said the same thing like he was blown [TS]

01:05:55   away by it like it was an entirely [TS]

01:05:56   different thing from justjust the [TS]

01:06:00   headset [TS]

01:06:01   all right let me try to walk through [TS]

01:06:04   what it is that I'm I'm explaining hear [TS]

01:06:08   about that happens to your brain in [TS]

01:06:10   virtual reality so there were six people [TS]

01:06:12   with us that day every single one of us [TS]

01:06:16   had some variation on a moment where [TS]

01:06:21   thing occurred in the virtual world and [TS]

01:06:25   we realized that our brains had just [TS]

01:06:28   totally bought into the experience [TS]

01:06:31   yep he each one of us has been repeating [TS]

01:06:33   over and over to everyone who will [TS]

01:06:35   listen to every person we can grab on [TS]

01:06:37   the street like you don't understand i [TS]

01:06:38   had this moment [TS]

01:06:39   and that like the moment doesn't [TS]

01:06:42   particularly matter but all of us had [TS]

01:06:44   this kind of thing so the the basic [TS]

01:06:48   description that we can give without [TS]

01:06:49   getting into like I was in a dreamlike [TS]

01:06:51   and then I saw this thing and I went [TS]

01:06:53   over here was they started as off on a [TS]

01:06:56   first-person shooter simulation that's [TS]

01:07:00   designed to just get you used to look [TS]

01:07:03   over here you have these two hands in [TS]

01:07:06   this virtual world you can pick up [TS]

01:07:07   objects so there's like there's a very [TS]

01:07:09   brief tutorial that you walk through and [TS]

01:07:12   then you find yourself [TS]

01:07:13   essentially if you've seen the matrix [TS]

01:07:15   playing a matrix game at the world can [TS]

01:07:18   slow down there's guys who are coming [TS]

01:07:20   after you you can teleport to different [TS]

01:07:22   locations and you can shoot them and [TS]

01:07:24   you're playing this game and because you [TS]

01:07:26   have virtual hands in the world with [TS]

01:07:29   these two controllers that you're using [TS]

01:07:31   your picking up weapons you're throwing [TS]

01:07:33   objects you're you're able to physically [TS]

01:07:35   block objects that are that are coming [TS]

01:07:37   into you and for me my little moment of [TS]

01:07:39   my brain has totally bought into this [TS]

01:07:42   was i accidentally in the game kind of [TS]

01:07:46   dropped the weapon that I was holding [TS]

01:07:49   and you can slow down the world and so I [TS]

01:07:53   i dropped the gun accidentally I slow [TS]

01:07:57   down the world as the gun was falling [TS]

01:08:00   like I turned my head to watch it fall [TS]

01:08:04   in slow motion and just reached out with [TS]

01:08:06   my virtual hand grabbed it as it was [TS]

01:08:09   falling I get the moment that an enemy [TS]

01:08:11   appeared in my peripheral vision on the [TS]

01:08:13   other side like turned and shot him and [TS]

01:08:18   it and then it was just holy it's like [TS]

01:08:23   my brain just made this world real in [TS]

01:08:28   this moment and this is what I mean [TS]

01:08:30   about is this dreamlike state it's very [TS]

01:08:32   hard to explain is not the big deal [TS]

01:08:33   about like oh I dropped a gun and shot a [TS]

01:08:35   guy and it was super cool it was like no [TS]

01:08:37   this was the moment where my brain just [TS]

01:08:39   let go of its normal experience of [TS]

01:08:43   existing in the world and was existing [TS]

01:08:46   in a place so that you could have a [TS]

01:08:48   reflex that would happen unlearned just [TS]

01:08:52   like in the real [TS]

01:08:53   world right just like in the real world [TS]

01:08:55   if you have something catches your [TS]

01:08:56   peripheral vision or like something [TS]

01:08:58   drops off a table and you you grab it [TS]

01:09:00   you just you react in a way that is just [TS]

01:09:03   so natural and that you don't think [TS]

01:09:04   about it which is very rarely an [TS]

01:09:07   experience that you have in a [TS]

01:09:08   traditional game unless you have [TS]

01:09:09   practice and practice and practice and [TS]

01:09:11   practice like this was an event that [TS]

01:09:12   occurred maybe two minutes into playing [TS]

01:09:15   the game and that like that is the thing [TS]

01:09:17   that makes the difference [TS]

01:09:19   my brain just accepted these virtual [TS]

01:09:23   hands [TS]

01:09:24   these are my hands right this this train [TS]

01:09:26   station that I am in i am in this train [TS]

01:09:30   station and so if an object falls that I [TS]

01:09:32   want to catch just engage all of the [TS]

01:09:35   normal reflexes that you would in the [TS]

01:09:37   real world and perform all of the [TS]

01:09:39   actions that you would in the real world [TS]

01:09:41   totally naturally and each one of us had [TS]

01:09:44   some little moment like that very [TS]

01:09:46   quickly where you realize I as far as my [TS]

01:09:51   brain is concerned I am here there is [TS]

01:09:55   nowhere else I am here in this game I [TS]

01:09:59   had kind of two instances like this [TS]

01:10:01   which matched the kind of one type of [TS]

01:10:04   thing that you're talking about so the [TS]

01:10:05   first part for me is stopping this train [TS]

01:10:07   carriage and part of the demo a black [TS]

01:10:11   part of the tutorial your call is to try [TS]

01:10:13   and get you to think like this one of [TS]

01:10:16   the things that does is like just look [TS]

01:10:18   to your right and there's like a Chinese [TS]

01:10:21   takeout box and the tutorials pick it up [TS]

01:10:24   but that's it right no like press agent [TS]

01:10:28   like just pick it up so you reach down [TS]

01:10:30   the hand that you can see and you [TS]

01:10:31   grabbed it and I pick it up and the way [TS]

01:10:34   that I put it down is a way that I would [TS]

01:10:36   never put down something in a video game [TS]

01:10:37   picked it up I realized what I was [TS]

01:10:39   supposed to do and threw over my [TS]

01:10:41   shoulder [TS]

01:10:41   who and that was such an a that's the [TS]

01:10:45   way i would probably do that in the real [TS]

01:10:47   world right just picking up like I'm [TS]

01:10:48   done with this now and that I i remember [TS]

01:10:52   the action of just throwing over my [TS]

01:10:54   shoulder and immediately it clicked in [TS]

01:10:56   my brain is like that was weird [TS]

01:10:59   why did i do that why did I throw it [TS]

01:11:02   rather than just let go [TS]

01:11:04   right right and it was very [TS]

01:11:06   was a very strange moment for me because [TS]

01:11:08   then from then on I was like I've got [TS]

01:11:11   this my fault for the door just like [TS]

01:11:13   picking up guns and picking up targets [TS]

01:11:15   and it was it was like immediate was [TS]

01:11:17   like right now let's do this and other [TS]

01:11:19   part for me which was one of the kind of [TS]

01:11:21   the quarry flex things was one other [TS]

01:11:23   things you can do in the game [TS]

01:11:24   well I think it's the best possible [TS]

01:11:25   thing in this game i think it's called [TS]

01:11:27   bullet bullet train i think who when [TS]

01:11:30   when you're able to slow down time you [TS]

01:11:33   could grab bullets from the sky throw [TS]

01:11:36   them at people who selectable it so [TS]

01:11:38   being shot you you can pick them up and [TS]

01:11:39   throw them back from there was a moment [TS]

01:11:42   where I had a bunch of people around me [TS]

01:11:44   and my gun run out of ammo so I just [TS]

01:11:47   drop the gun slow down time I lent [TS]

01:11:49   backwards who touched my head to grab a [TS]

01:11:52   bullet that was behind me and then threw [TS]

01:11:54   at someone and it was like um ok thanks [TS]

01:12:00   badass might be doing that yeah and [TS]

01:12:04   again it is that that thing of the game [TS]

01:12:08   hasn't told you to do this this is just [TS]

01:12:12   it is as though you woke up one day and [TS]

01:12:15   you could slow down time you would very [TS]

01:12:17   naturally just start doing a bunch of [TS]

01:12:19   stop by you it wouldn't even occur to [TS]

01:12:21   you not to [TS]

01:12:22   yep and and that is that is the [TS]

01:12:24   different things like we keep saying [TS]

01:12:26   against to everybody who's colors we can [TS]

01:12:28   grab to bring them close to tell them [TS]

01:12:30   the truth right [TS]

01:12:31   it's like we had this experience of [TS]

01:12:34   being in these environments this this [TS]

01:12:37   was not like i have had some amazing [TS]

01:12:40   experiences playing super cool games you [TS]

01:12:42   know like very very fancy arcade car [TS]

01:12:46   simulations like that our screens around [TS]

01:12:48   you like all this kind of stuff and my [TS]

01:12:50   reaction to all of those was the same of [TS]

01:12:53   this is super fun right like this is an [TS]

01:12:57   amazing fun driving simulator like the [TS]

01:13:00   machines moving around me like this is [TS]

01:13:02   great like I'm having a fantastic time [TS]

01:13:03   but the experience of this matrix like [TS]

01:13:09   shoot-'em-up simulator was an experience [TS]

01:13:12   of I am I am there and I am they're [TS]

01:13:16   doing this thing [TS]

01:13:20   and it's almost like I wouldn't even [TS]

01:13:22   describe it as fun because it was it was [TS]

01:13:24   just so intense yeah and so ki I'm just [TS]

01:13:27   in this environment this is this is [TS]

01:13:28   really what's happening and it was it [TS]

01:13:32   was not like woohoo reckless abandon it [TS]

01:13:34   was it was just an experience that is [TS]

01:13:37   very hard to articulate and and I I to [TS]

01:13:42   like you feel like again reaching for [TS]

01:13:45   metaphors here this is not even an [TS]

01:13:47   appropriate comparison but I keep [TS]

01:13:49   feeling like the only other day that I [TS]

01:13:51   remember having this feeling was the day [TS]

01:13:54   I got married where I remember driving [TS]

01:13:58   home after getting married you know in [TS]

01:14:00   the car with my brand new bride and and [TS]

01:14:03   thinking over the whole of my life is [TS]

01:14:05   different now and city is that an [TS]

01:14:08   appropriate metaphor for you get to get [TS]

01:14:11   experiencing vr but like it's the like [TS]

01:14:13   my brain is just reaching for something [TS]

01:14:15   that is similar and I feel the VR [TS]

01:14:18   experience was the same way like just as [TS]

01:14:21   in oh I had this like this life before I [TS]

01:14:23   was married and then like my life after [TS]

01:14:25   getting married is just different and I [TS]

01:14:28   feel like this is this is another marker [TS]

01:14:30   like everything that came before vr is [TS]

01:14:35   just different now from everything that [TS]

01:14:38   came after er it's i have experienced [TS]

01:14:42   the moldability the plastic pneus of the [TS]

01:14:48   human mind and its ability to drop into [TS]

01:14:53   and accept fundamentally different [TS]

01:14:56   environments though the one that I keep [TS]

01:14:59   thinking of is when i first tried the [TS]

01:15:01   iphone who and I just knew that [TS]

01:15:04   everything was different [TS]

01:15:05   everything that I phone you about [TS]

01:15:06   technology and changed that day and [TS]

01:15:08   everything that I know about video games [TS]

01:15:11   has changed but it's way more than that [TS]

01:15:13   as well it's it's it's far more it's far [TS]

01:15:16   more than just video games it's like [TS]

01:15:18   this is kind of I feel so crazy sense of [TS]

01:15:22   like this but this has changed my [TS]

01:15:23   perception of reality because i have had [TS]

01:15:25   a reality that isn't my own I've [TS]

01:15:27   experienced it [TS]

01:15:29   this is why open with the drug metaphor [TS]

01:15:31   possesses what we sound like but I also [TS]

01:15:34   think that it is true because i have had [TS]

01:15:36   the same thing of just reality feels [TS]

01:15:39   different now in the same way that [TS]

01:15:41   people who drop lose Natori drugs they [TS]

01:15:44   will describe to me that reality feels [TS]

01:15:46   different [TS]

01:15:46   like I know I think I i spent a thousand [TS]

01:15:50   years you know communicating with the [TS]

01:15:51   lamp in my room right when I was high [TS]

01:15:53   and like now I just cannot look at a [TS]

01:15:55   lamp and feel the same way again like [TS]

01:15:57   okay you're a lunatic but now i also [TS]

01:15:59   feel the same way like even just this [TS]

01:16:00   morning preparing for this podcast i was [TS]

01:16:02   walking around San Francisco and as I [TS]

01:16:03   always do kind of like booting up into [TS]

01:16:05   my head what are we going to talk about [TS]

01:16:06   it but somehow my experience of walking [TS]

01:16:09   around San Francisco this morning my [TS]

01:16:11   experience of everything is just [TS]

01:16:13   different after vr in this way that I [TS]

01:16:15   cannot articulate is it just different [TS]

01:16:18   it's just different [TS]

01:16:19   so there was one of the part i wanted to [TS]

01:16:21   talk about to try and further explain [TS]

01:16:23   this feeling so there was another game [TS]

01:16:25   that we played it was more of a demo [TS]

01:16:28   where they hook up those who are closest [TS]

01:16:29   together I don't think they're going to [TS]

01:16:30   release this because that is an insane [TS]

01:16:32   amount of work money right to little got [TS]

01:16:35   to complete machines but they've demo [TS]

01:16:38   this and it's type is they think they [TS]

01:16:40   call it toy box or something you're in [TS]

01:16:41   one room and I was in another room and [TS]

01:16:43   we're basically just in a room with a [TS]

01:16:46   lot of objects in it that you can [TS]

01:16:48   interact with so we like playing around [TS]

01:16:50   those guns in there were like shooting [TS]

01:16:52   targets and serve and then I saw a [TS]

01:16:54   slingshot on the table and I picked up [TS]

01:16:57   the slingshot and I just started firing [TS]

01:16:59   pellets I guess at phases and playing [TS]

01:17:04   them i don't remember the buttons i [TS]

01:17:06   pressed the yes [TS]

01:17:08   all I remember when I tell this story to [TS]

01:17:10   people is the action of firing a [TS]

01:17:14   slingshot [TS]

01:17:14   yeah there were no instructions in the [TS]

01:17:17   games that we played because all you did [TS]

01:17:20   was just interact with stuff there were [TS]

01:17:22   boomerangs on the table i picked one up [TS]

01:17:24   and I through it and I caught it and [TS]

01:17:26   picked up to and through them both [TS]

01:17:28   it was like right I'm just in this world [TS]

01:17:30   like I am interacting with stuff like I [TS]

01:17:32   use my hands to interact with things all [TS]

01:17:34   the time [TS]

01:17:35   yeah and my brain was like we're going [TS]

01:17:37   on this journey buddy like there is no [TS]

01:17:39   problem I can deal with this [TS]

01:17:40   there is a little moment that was [TS]

01:17:42   interesting that all six of us did [TS]

01:17:45   and you could see everybody do it and [TS]

01:17:47   even the people who saw the first of us [TS]

01:17:48   do without like oh that's funny but then [TS]

01:17:50   they did it themselves which was when [TS]

01:17:52   you for the very first time boot into [TS]

01:17:55   the world and you have these controllers [TS]

01:17:56   in your hands [TS]

01:17:58   what happens is what in your field of [TS]

01:18:00   vision what you see are basically the [TS]

01:18:01   like that a kind of outline of two blue [TS]

01:18:05   hands and everybody did the exact same [TS]

01:18:07   thing they raised up these hands and you [TS]

01:18:09   kind of rotate them in your field of [TS]

01:18:11   vision so you're looking at these hands [TS]

01:18:13   and you're seeing that they're moving [TS]

01:18:14   the way the controller's move and then [TS]

01:18:16   there's a trigger that you can pull [TS]

01:18:17   which will close those hands so it's the [TS]

01:18:19   grip motion every single person did the [TS]

01:18:23   exact same thing they put their hands in [TS]

01:18:26   their field Division they rotated them [TS]

01:18:28   perfectly back and forth and then they [TS]

01:18:30   pulled the trigger right in front of [TS]

01:18:32   them so that the hands would open and [TS]

01:18:33   close i am convinced i'm absolutely the [TS]

01:18:37   convinced that every one of us did that [TS]

01:18:39   because your brain is really mapping [TS]

01:18:42   yeah its movement protocol is [TS]

01:18:44   understanding what it can do and it's [TS]

01:18:46   like okay I now can move my thumb my [TS]

01:18:50   index finger and my other three things [TS]

01:18:52   that's all I can do now this is what my [TS]

01:18:54   right this is what my hands do i'm in [TS]

01:18:56   this world i completely agree with you [TS]

01:18:59   yeah right it is a brain accepting its [TS]

01:19:02   hands and that and this is why it's so [TS]

01:19:05   hard to explain because after that [TS]

01:19:08   moment we all have that same experience [TS]

01:19:10   of you don't feel like you're pulling a [TS]

01:19:14   trigger on a controller because your [TS]

01:19:17   brain has just decided oh these are my [TS]

01:19:19   hands now right and so even though in [TS]

01:19:22   reality what you're doing is you know [TS]

01:19:24   you're pulling your middle finger closed [TS]

01:19:26   on a trigger in the virtual world what's [TS]

01:19:28   happening is your whole hand is closing [TS]

01:19:30   on an object and so the feeling is your [TS]

01:19:34   whole hand is closing on an object [TS]

01:19:35   that's how it feels [TS]

01:19:37   you don't feel that you're pulling a [TS]

01:19:38   trigger and the the closest I can come [TS]

01:19:42   up with this is I've seen some [TS]

01:19:43   interesting descriptions of people who [TS]

01:19:45   have had limbs amputated but then you [TS]

01:19:49   know some some very advanced artificial [TS]

01:19:51   limbs can do things like although [TS]

01:19:52   they'll look for muscle poles in the [TS]

01:19:56   upper part of an arm right [TS]

01:19:58   close the hand and so a person learns oh [TS]

01:20:00   if they tend to support certain part of [TS]

01:20:01   their shoulder they can open and close [TS]

01:20:03   their hand but after a little while what [TS]

01:20:05   happens is they have a subjective sense [TS]

01:20:08   of opening and closing their hand [TS]

01:20:10   because their brain has just rewired [TS]

01:20:12   itself so that oh this muscle group is [TS]

01:20:15   how I open and close my hand I can see [TS]

01:20:17   this artificial hand opening and closing [TS]

01:20:19   on an object and the brain just learned [TS]

01:20:21   this is what that is like I am [TS]

01:20:23   absolutely convinced that the VR [TS]

01:20:25   experiences the same thing it's the [TS]

01:20:26   plastic miss of the brain just accepting [TS]

01:20:30   these virtual hands are mine and I am [TS]

01:20:33   experiencing us the sensation of holding [TS]

01:20:36   an object because I can see it and the [TS]

01:20:40   sequence of muscles that is needed to [TS]

01:20:41   trigger to close the hand around this [TS]

01:20:45   object that is irrelevant because from [TS]

01:20:47   the brains perspective it is always [TS]

01:20:48   irrelevant like the brain just knows [TS]

01:20:50   it's sending out some electrical signal [TS]

01:20:52   and it's receiving some feedback and and [TS]

01:20:54   this is what your brain does to grab an [TS]

01:20:57   object and so it just it just accept it [TS]

01:21:00   and the startling thing is it accepts it [TS]

01:21:02   so quickly and it becomes so real and I [TS]

01:21:08   think if for those who haven't [TS]

01:21:10   experienced vr there's a loose like this [TS]

01:21:13   is like the tiniest baby is thing that [TS]

01:21:15   you can do to understand what we're [TS]

01:21:17   trying to talk about but but the human [TS]

01:21:19   brain has this is funny funny thing i [TS]

01:21:22   can't remember what it's called i think [TS]

01:21:23   i think the name of this isn't like tool [TS]

01:21:26   sensation but if you take a pencil and a [TS]

01:21:31   piece of paper in front of you and start [TS]

01:21:35   drawing on the paper when you do that [TS]

01:21:39   focus your attention on the sensation of [TS]

01:21:43   drawing and if you pay attention to this [TS]

01:21:46   you can recognize that you don't feel [TS]

01:21:51   the pencil in your hand so much when [TS]

01:21:55   you're drawing you feel the tip of the [TS]

01:21:59   pencil on the paper yet this is why [TS]

01:22:02   panics love pens and paper by the way [TS]

01:22:04   that feeling [TS]

01:22:05   of course right i just realized I'm [TS]

01:22:07   talking to the exact right guy but it's [TS]

01:22:10   it's it's a thing that you don't think [TS]

01:22:13   about it but but seriously pay attention [TS]

01:22:16   to this and you will notice that you [TS]

01:22:19   have a physical sensation that is [TS]

01:22:21   outside of your body right you're having [TS]

01:22:23   a physical sensation where the pencil [TS]

01:22:26   meets the paper and of course you don't [TS]

01:22:29   have nerves in the pencil tip there's no [TS]

01:22:31   way for you to feel that but your brain [TS]

01:22:34   has learned over the years of using a [TS]

01:22:36   pencil that certain sensations of [TS]

01:22:39   vibration that come back from the [TS]

01:22:40   pencil-like they map to certain visual [TS]

01:22:42   experiences of the pencil on the paper [TS]

01:22:44   and so your brain has learned to place a [TS]

01:22:47   physical sensation at a point outside of [TS]

01:22:50   your body and you can also sometimes [TS]

01:22:52   notice this was like using a hammer and [TS]

01:22:54   striking the head of a nail you [TS]

01:22:56   physically feel the head of the hammer [TS]

01:22:59   striking the nail but you don't have any [TS]

01:23:02   nerves there that's a sensation outside [TS]

01:23:03   of your body your brain is very willing [TS]

01:23:06   to place sensation where there is none [TS]

01:23:10   this happens all the time and you just [TS]

01:23:12   don't notice it and the end like vr is [TS]

01:23:16   taking advantage of that like it is is [TS]

01:23:19   leaning into the wiring of the brain and [TS]

01:23:23   the way the brain wants to experience [TS]

01:23:24   the world and so that's why we all have [TS]

01:23:27   this I cannot believe this experience [TS]

01:23:31   because it felt like I had hands i was [TS]

01:23:33   picking up objects i was throwing things [TS]

01:23:35   like Mike set his memory is I picked up [TS]

01:23:38   a slingshot because at that point he was [TS]

01:23:40   20 minutes into his brain mapping these [TS]

01:23:42   blue hands are my hand so I'm just [TS]

01:23:44   picking up stuff he's not thinking about [TS]

01:23:46   02 perform this action i had to do quite [TS]

01:23:48   a complicated thing of pulling two [TS]

01:23:50   separate triggers on two different [TS]

01:23:51   controllers and and locating your hands [TS]

01:23:53   like none of that like it's all just [TS]

01:23:55   gone it all just becomes natural it was [TS]

01:23:58   no coincidence in my mind that as we all [TS]

01:24:01   finished playing we were all joking [TS]

01:24:03   about how we were picking things up like [TS]

01:24:05   oh I'm just picking things up with my [TS]

01:24:07   three fingers here and my my index [TS]

01:24:10   finger and I think that I honestly [TS]

01:24:12   believe that we all made that joke [TS]

01:24:13   because our brains were like hang on [TS]

01:24:16   buddy what's happened [TS]

01:24:17   here these the different hands now like [TS]

01:24:21   we've just spent a bunch of time with [TS]

01:24:22   that limited movement and now we're back [TS]

01:24:24   to normal again and it did feel weird [TS]

01:24:26   and it was incredible absolutely [TS]

01:24:30   incredible i had a funny little moment [TS]

01:24:33   with Stephen Stephen Hackett of [TS]

01:24:37   connected where I came over why but we [TS]

01:24:40   would I was helping him like transfer [TS]

01:24:41   the the gear off of him [TS]

01:24:43   I helped get the controller's out of his [TS]

01:24:45   hands while the VR helmet was still on [TS]

01:24:48   his head and he said he had a little [TS]

01:24:51   freakout moment because his brain [TS]

01:24:52   suddenly registered that he was [TS]

01:24:55   paralyzed right because the controllers [TS]

01:24:57   were no longer in his hands and he's [TS]

01:24:59   like I can't i have no hands anymore [TS]

01:25:01   like he had his brain had just like a [TS]

01:25:02   little freaked out because it's like oh [TS]

01:25:03   the mapping is just gone i have no [TS]

01:25:05   ability to influence the world it's a [TS]

01:25:07   subjective feeling like someone cut off [TS]

01:25:08   his hands and I've heard that mirrored [TS]

01:25:11   by people who have just used like a like [TS]

01:25:15   a headset where a game is less [TS]

01:25:16   interactive but if there is a visual [TS]

01:25:18   representation of the player like [TS]

01:25:20   looking down and seeing your hands but [TS]

01:25:22   if you can't move them in the game like [TS]

01:25:24   some people have said they have a weird [TS]

01:25:25   like paralyzed freaked out about that [TS]

01:25:27   like the brain does not does not like [TS]

01:25:29   that i think that again this is one of [TS]

01:25:31   the reasons why these touch controllers [TS]

01:25:33   they're so important because they are [TS]

01:25:37   what grounds the brain in the world they [TS]

01:25:40   are what forces the brain to accept this [TS]

01:25:43   input as just a new physical location in [TS]

01:25:47   that toy box mode there was something [TS]

01:25:49   that I need to address that we did so [TS]

01:25:52   it's me and you playing together we [TS]

01:25:54   could look at each other and we would [TS]

01:25:55   see like disembodied hands and a [TS]

01:25:57   disembodied head wearing an oculus rift [TS]

01:25:59   they were the graphical representations [TS]

01:26:01   of us both in separate rooms we could [TS]

01:26:03   also hear each other their microphones [TS]

01:26:05   and we could hear each other in our [TS]

01:26:06   headsets right so I could look to my [TS]

01:26:08   left and I could see Mike's head and [TS]

01:26:11   Mike's hands yep and also very strangely [TS]

01:26:14   brain just totally accept that [TS]

01:26:16   immediately oh that's Mike right Mike's [TS]

01:26:18   just standing next to me even though [TS]

01:26:19   he's in the other room i added like a [TS]

01:26:21   physical presence of yeah I had that too [TS]

01:26:24   I knew you were there even when I wasn't [TS]

01:26:26   looking at you right like mike is just [TS]

01:26:27   next to me and and that's also part of [TS]

01:26:30   that [TS]

01:26:30   except they're pulling with the audio [TS]

01:26:32   and the way that the headsets work is [TS]

01:26:34   when you're just kind of like talking [TS]

01:26:36   out loud about what you're doing [TS]

01:26:37   I can hear you next to me and you're [TS]

01:26:39   there like we are at a virtual table [TS]

01:26:41   together that is the sensation so I'm [TS]

01:26:44   playing around and we're in this blue [TS]

01:26:46   room and this is great desk in front of [TS]

01:26:48   us and as well like all the toys are the [TS]

01:26:50   boomerangs and stuff a one-point great [TS]

01:26:52   finds this like popping a hand puppet [TS]

01:26:54   which I didn't like right by actively [TS]

01:26:58   disliked this poppet because he was [TS]

01:27:01   talking and moving the hand and I'd I [TS]

01:27:04   asked him to stop it and he did I really [TS]

01:27:07   didn't like it [TS]

01:27:08   the brain mapping thing is so weird [TS]

01:27:09   because I pick up the puppet and [TS]

01:27:11   immediately that the visual [TS]

01:27:14   representation is that my hand is inside [TS]

01:27:16   the back of a puppet so i can make the [TS]

01:27:18   mouth move and again it is perfectly [TS]

01:27:20   natural so i moved the puppet over to [TS]

01:27:22   Mike like I put it right in his face [TS]

01:27:23   there like how am I cried making the [TS]

01:27:25   mouth move open and closed it was a [TS]

01:27:28   horrifying but Mike did not like better [TS]

01:27:30   than all of a sudden the room goes [TS]

01:27:33   completely gray now I knew that Gray had [TS]

01:27:36   the ability to change the environment [TS]

01:27:38   that we were in yeah it was a bit of a [TS]

01:27:41   funny situation because the the game has [TS]

01:27:44   two roles where one person is the [TS]

01:27:46   presenter yeah and so my perspective was [TS]

01:27:48   i was able to essentially like reach out [TS]

01:27:51   and touch buttons that would move us two [TS]

01:27:54   different tables in different locations [TS]

01:27:55   that could do different things so I [TS]

01:27:58   thought we were in a different room to [TS]

01:28:01   do and then I here [TS]

01:28:03   hello Mike but like hello Mike and I [TS]

01:28:08   turn to my right and gray is massive and [TS]

01:28:14   then I realize he has shrunk me you [TS]

01:28:17   picked up this special shrink ray and he [TS]

01:28:19   struck me and then proceeded to [TS]

01:28:22   terrorize me in which gray was throwing [TS]

01:28:27   big things at me and he was like [TS]

01:28:30   shooting me with stuff and I was trying [TS]

01:28:33   to like pick up this gun to shoot myself [TS]

01:28:35   back to size but I couldn't pick it up [TS]

01:28:37   because i was too small right when you [TS]

01:28:39   smile you can't manipulate any of the [TS]

01:28:41   objects [TS]

01:28:42   any pick up the Prophet again i'm going [TS]

01:28:45   to put in the show notes of video which [TS]

01:28:49   i think best represents what VR can do [TS]

01:28:52   to someone which is me [TS]

01:28:54   cowering and basically begging him to [TS]

01:28:58   stop I was like so like I was enjoy add [TS]

01:29:05   an enjoyment of this but I was [TS]

01:29:07   uncomfortable with it right look at the [TS]

01:29:08   same time it was like that mix of things [TS]

01:29:10   because there was something happening [TS]

01:29:12   that I didn't like but I know it was fun [TS]

01:29:14   if you like it was like when you go to [TS]

01:29:17   like you may have done anything like [TS]

01:29:18   this but like London dungeons and and [TS]

01:29:21   places like that where you have a sense [TS]

01:29:23   of fear but it's fun fear because you [TS]

01:29:25   know it's safe within the environment [TS]

01:29:27   that you're in right right so it's like [TS]

01:29:30   a controlled fear like the adrenaline is [TS]

01:29:32   all you get without the actual dying [TS]

01:29:34   part and I was kind of having that [TS]

01:29:36   feeling because there was nothing I [TS]

01:29:39   could do and I was scared but like it's [TS]

01:29:42   like nervous laughter and I'm like just [TS]

01:29:44   kind of cowering negative basically [TS]

01:29:46   approaching the field position one point [TS]

01:29:48   it was so strange [TS]

01:29:51   the other thing that's interesting is I [TS]

01:29:54   mean you were genuinely having that that [TS]

01:29:57   physical reaction like that is the thing [TS]

01:29:59   that on the video is so interesting and [TS]

01:30:00   talking to you about it later is like [TS]

01:30:03   what is the reason for you to cower [TS]

01:30:04   right there [TS]

01:30:05   there is no reason for that why am I put [TS]

01:30:07   my arms in front of my face why am i [TS]

01:30:09   protecting fri body there's no point to [TS]

01:30:12   do that [TS]

01:30:12   yeah this is absolutely absolutely no [TS]

01:30:15   point to do it and is it is fascinating [TS]

01:30:18   and it's so eventually like you know [TS]

01:30:22   from my perspective I'm seeing a tiny [TS]

01:30:23   Mike on the table and like all right let [TS]

01:30:25   the giant puppet like hilarious for me [TS]

01:30:28   eventually did you know return you back [TS]

01:30:30   to normal size and ever so then we swap [TS]

01:30:34   like i was able to hand you the shrink [TS]

01:30:36   ray gun which by the way is only on the [TS]

01:30:38   side of the person who's the percentage [TS]

01:30:39   exactly good grounded anyway yeah so i [TS]

01:30:43   had to the shrink ray gun is I just I [TS]

01:30:45   want to experience like okay what was [TS]

01:30:46   this thing and so then you shrink shrink [TS]

01:30:48   me down and it and so again like the [TS]

01:30:51   whole perspective shifts and [TS]

01:30:53   again is it was amazing how much the [TS]

01:30:56   brain just buys into it immediately of [TS]

01:30:59   oh ok [TS]

01:31:00   my perspective is showing me everything [TS]

01:31:03   around me being gigantic that i was [TS]

01:31:05   looking at before the perspective is now [TS]

01:31:08   from inches off of the surface of the [TS]

01:31:11   table it's not from above the table [TS]

01:31:12   anymore and so looking over and I see a [TS]

01:31:15   big mike and and my brain just totally [TS]

01:31:18   buys into I i am now two inches tall [TS]

01:31:22   standing on the table where there's like [TS]

01:31:24   there's no reason that the brain has [TS]

01:31:25   never ever had that experience but i [TS]

01:31:27   think the inputs are so seamless [TS]

01:31:30   combined with the motion of the hands in [TS]

01:31:33   this virtual space that the brain is [TS]

01:31:35   just okay this is what it is now I'm [TS]

01:31:37   just tiny on a table and I knew that my [TS]

01:31:41   brain was totally bought in because when [TS]

01:31:44   you shrink the simulation puts you right [TS]

01:31:46   on the edge of the table which I didn't [TS]

01:31:49   realize at first and the only time I was [TS]

01:31:52   genuinely startled up in this oculus dei [TS]

01:31:57   like the gun simulation was just like I [TS]

01:32:00   captain it was amazing [TS]

01:32:01   slowing down the world and matrix like [TS]

01:32:03   teleporting around just like [TS]

01:32:04   assassinating people i just looked [TS]

01:32:06   fantastic loved it but I was genuinely [TS]

01:32:10   startled shrunk down on the table when I [TS]

01:32:13   turned in my peripheral vision saw the [TS]

01:32:15   edge of the table and then I turn to see [TS]

01:32:18   where I was standing and that was a time [TS]

01:32:20   where I almost fell because in the [TS]

01:32:23   simulation I could see the edge and then [TS]

01:32:25   like this tremendous distance down and [TS]

01:32:28   in the in the actual world like I'm [TS]

01:32:30   trying to turn around and then suddenly [TS]

01:32:31   take a step back because my brains like [TS]

01:32:34   you are standing on the edge of a [TS]

01:32:36   precipice and again it was just totally [TS]

01:32:38   bought into it then no doubt about it [TS]

01:32:41   and my brain and body just reacted to an [TS]

01:32:44   immediate sense of danger that you did [TS]

01:32:46   not realize you're standing two inches [TS]

01:32:48   away from a subjective hundred-foot drop [TS]

01:32:51   it was it was astounding is absolutely [TS]

01:32:53   astounding so I have another weird thing [TS]

01:32:55   I have zero memory of shrinking you here [TS]

01:32:59   I don't remember doing [TS]

01:33:01   you're telling me this i cannot and I'm [TS]

01:33:05   trying to like put together and my brain [TS]

01:33:07   I have for my perspective the game ended [TS]

01:33:10   off to the point where you strike me [TS]

01:33:12   down I don't remember I don't remember [TS]

01:33:13   it was so traumatic [TS]

01:33:15   yeah I don't honestly don't remember [TS]

01:33:16   anything else from that point to me the [TS]

01:33:19   game ended how weird is that [TS]

01:33:21   I don't remember doing it yeah well i [TS]

01:33:24   mean i i'm not surprised because after [TS]

01:33:28   our our our day at facebook so you know [TS]

01:33:30   we were looking at all the offices and [TS]

01:33:32   then you know we did this virtual [TS]

01:33:34   experience together that again like I [TS]

01:33:37   made a joke but it was not a joke about [TS]

01:33:39   how this the six guys like the six of us [TS]

01:33:41   who went through that thing I said like [TS]

01:33:43   you know like we are brothers in blood [TS]

01:33:45   at this moment like we have gone through [TS]

01:33:47   a thing together all of us have had this [TS]

01:33:49   incredible experience all of us are [TS]

01:33:51   trying to talk to each other about what [TS]

01:33:53   it is like like we had like this bonding [TS]

01:33:55   event that is just unique in a life is [TS]

01:33:58   again it sounds to the listener like [TS]

01:34:00   crazy hyperbole but it is not like that [TS]

01:34:03   is that is the subjective experience of [TS]

01:34:04   this our relationships as a group have [TS]

01:34:07   changed because we have had through this [TS]

01:34:09   together like oh yeah categorically that [TS]

01:34:12   is a fact [TS]

01:34:13   yeah that with without a doubt but so [TS]

01:34:16   combine this with what i just found to [TS]

01:34:18   be you know an overwhelming day if his [TS]

01:34:20   facebook just in general that with the [TS]

01:34:22   scale of it all and like all of this new [TS]

01:34:24   experience and and the bizarro town and [TS]

01:34:28   then doing this virtual reality [TS]

01:34:30   experience and you know i was just we [TS]

01:34:34   know we're like driving in the car back [TS]

01:34:36   and and looking at some of which like [TS]

01:34:38   talking and then alternately just like [TS]

01:34:39   quiet for long periods of time were all [TS]

01:34:41   just there in our own heads and then [TS]

01:34:43   like talking about it again we get back [TS]

01:34:44   to the hotel room and you know again [TS]

01:34:46   going back to mikes busy busying up my [TS]

01:34:49   calendar [TS]

01:34:50   you know theoretically there was a bunch [TS]

01:34:52   of stuff that we were supposed to do [TS]

01:34:54   that evening but you know I went into [TS]

01:34:59   the hotel room I took a shower and then [TS]

01:35:03   my brain just said oh those those tiles [TS]

01:35:09   on the floor they look really nice don't [TS]

01:35:11   they like yeah they to do so [TS]

01:35:14   I like sat down like what why don't you [TS]

01:35:17   just lie down for a second my brain is [TS]

01:35:18   telling me and I i just laid down on the [TS]

01:35:23   bathroom floor I looking at the white [TS]

01:35:25   ceiling no joke like three hours and [TS]

01:35:30   what like I think what was happening was [TS]

01:35:33   no I broken my brain was like input [TS]

01:35:37   buffer full writing to disk like cannot [TS]

01:35:40   accept any more input [TS]

01:35:42   I just needed to stare at a white wall [TS]

01:35:44   430 like totally awake totally awake not [TS]

01:35:48   sleeping just like laying down like [TS]

01:35:51   there needs to be nothing for a while [TS]

01:35:54   while some part of my brain just [TS]

01:35:56   processes the events of the day if it [TS]

01:36:01   was it was like nothing else it was like [TS]

01:36:04   nothing else you wanna buy one yes [TS]

01:36:09   because the oculus rift is a it's an [TS]

01:36:12   investment right because you have to buy [TS]

01:36:15   the rift headset the touch controllers [TS]

01:36:18   and a capable pc to do this stuff and [TS]

01:36:22   that is it's it's quite a total that you [TS]

01:36:25   get to by the end of that [TS]

01:36:27   oh yeah is she it is it is not a small [TS]

01:36:30   investment but my feeling is that I what [TS]

01:36:34   I am I want to see like when do these [TS]

01:36:36   touch controllers [TS]

01:36:37   when are they available to the general [TS]

01:36:38   public again I'm going to see when when [TS]

01:36:41   that is but it to me it's it's just it's [TS]

01:36:46   just no question that I i have to be [TS]

01:36:48   able to experience this again [TS]

01:36:51   no not not in a demo environment like on [TS]

01:36:54   on my own time and you know I i really [TS]

01:36:58   think that this is a-coming phase change [TS]

01:37:03   in technology in the way that you said [TS]

01:37:05   you liked you you keep reaching for the [TS]

01:37:07   iphone experience like stuff is just [TS]

01:37:10   different now and you know like what was [TS]

01:37:12   different with the iphone level [TS]

01:37:15   touchscreens is they got the [TS]

01:37:16   responsiveness down under a certain [TS]

01:37:17   level that you feel like you are you [TS]

01:37:19   know what the slide to unlock for [TS]

01:37:21   example you feel like you were moving an [TS]

01:37:22   object on a screen and you are directly [TS]

01:37:25   interacting with the device you're not [TS]

01:37:27   having [TS]

01:37:27   level of indirection like with the mouse [TS]

01:37:29   and with the keyboard and the the VR [TS]

01:37:32   experiences that same thing like I'm in [TS]

01:37:34   a world I'm really here I'm really [TS]

01:37:36   interacting with stuff and I feel like [TS]

01:37:39   this is just this this is just obviously [TS]

01:37:45   a phase-change moment in technology and [TS]

01:37:49   one of the things I I even keep thinking [TS]

01:37:50   about is before they even load you into [TS]

01:37:54   the game they they have like a matrix [TS]

01:37:56   style like loading area they need a [TS]

01:37:58   place for you to stand to see that the [TS]

01:38:00   machine is on like then we're going to [TS]

01:38:01   select what you're going to play and [TS]

01:38:03   what you're standing in before things [TS]

01:38:07   start is just this beautiful Zen garden [TS]

01:38:11   house you know im just looking around [TS]

01:38:13   it's like oh this is this is beautiful [TS]

01:38:14   there's a tree over here this little [TS]

01:38:16   waterfall I like this vision of the sky [TS]

01:38:18   and all the rest of this and and even [TS]

01:38:22   just that moment i'm sitting there [TS]

01:38:23   thinking well this is an amazing work [TS]

01:38:29   environment like what what like why [TS]

01:38:32   wouldn't I have a virtual environment in [TS]

01:38:36   which to do work i can have a keyboard [TS]

01:38:39   here i can have a screen here to type on [TS]

01:38:42   I like that they're just like the [TS]

01:38:45   possibilities of this seemed endless to [TS]

01:38:50   me that they seem absolutely endless [TS]

01:38:53   because what you are doing is you are [TS]

01:38:56   remapping the input into the brain and [TS]

01:39:01   the brain is happening having an [TS]

01:39:02   experience in a different place and so [TS]

01:39:04   this is starting with games but this [TS]

01:39:08   this is applicable to literally [TS]

01:39:12   everything that you do right [TS]

01:39:16   literally everything that you do [TS]

01:39:17   eventually so yes I want to get on board [TS]

01:39:23   this train and experience this again and [TS]

01:39:26   think about it deeply in the future and [TS]

01:39:30   and see where see where this is going [TS]

01:39:32   and so yes I am I am definitely going to [TS]

01:39:36   do it the biggest problem of course is [TS]

01:39:39   in London in small spaces [TS]

01:39:41   trying to figure out where where is this [TS]

01:39:43   going to go like how does this fit in [TS]

01:39:46   the world and i think i think that's the [TS]

01:39:47   same problem you have because I feel [TS]

01:39:49   like you're on board this is you're [TS]

01:39:51   trying to figure out what's going to [TS]

01:39:52   happen next so I have an order placed [TS]

01:39:55   pre-order for the PlayStation VR headset [TS]

01:39:58   which I have not tried but all intents [TS]

01:40:02   and purposes is similar because it you [TS]

01:40:04   know you have the hand based controllers [TS]

01:40:06   they're different but they are sparks is [TS]

01:40:07   for your hands right that kind of thing [TS]

01:40:09   and I think that like having looked at [TS]

01:40:12   the hardware and what it's capable of I [TS]

01:40:14   think the oculus will probably give a [TS]

01:40:16   better experience but if I got [TS]

01:40:18   seventy-five percent of what I got with [TS]

01:40:21   the oculus for the playstation vr that's [TS]

01:40:22   still more than enough they're all I [TS]

01:40:25   need [TS]

01:40:26   I feel like a base level is just an [TS]

01:40:28   environment in which I can operate hands [TS]

01:40:31   and those hands like I've learned like [TS]

01:40:33   it doesn't matter what the button [TS]

01:40:34   arrangement is is how i'm assuming it's [TS]

01:40:37   just my hands just need to map to their [TS]

01:40:39   new movement mechanism whatever that [TS]

01:40:41   ends up being right that that's how i [TS]

01:40:44   think it's going to be so i'm i'm [TS]

01:40:46   looking at ocular ship dates [TS]

01:40:48   it's like September so i'm going to wait [TS]

01:40:50   to see what the PSP r is like and if [TS]

01:40:52   that is good enough then I'm gonna stick [TS]

01:40:54   with that but if I try the PSP artists [TS]

01:40:56   don't feel like how I felt this week [TS]

01:40:58   then i will be investing unfortunately [TS]

01:41:01   in the local system thanks Andy and John [TS]

01:41:07   man yeah thanks so much Tandy and John [TS]

01:41:14   who made this day possible for us with [TS]

01:41:18   with the tour facebook and access to the [TS]

01:41:21   unreleased oculus stuff it it was really [TS]

01:41:27   a day that i will never forget [TS]