Cortex 33: Cortek


00:00:00   I'm just waiting for you man anytime you [TS]

00:00:01   want to start perfectly ready to start [TS]

00:00:05   always ready to go on a percent the time [TS]

00:00:08   something we didn't talk about last time [TS]

00:00:10   was that you snuck into WWDC oh yeah I [TS]

00:00:15   guess that happens it did happen i feel [TS]

00:00:17   like i have been so busy I have lost all [TS]

00:00:22   sense of time [TS]

00:00:23   yeah we're both back in London now you [TS]

00:00:25   arrive significantly later than me [TS]

00:00:27   because you went to VidCon as well [TS]

00:00:29   yeah I'm freshly in London and so still [TS]

00:00:34   freshly jetlagged actually but i'm back [TS]

00:00:37   back for I think three weeks before i [TS]

00:00:42   turn right back around and go back to [TS]

00:00:44   America head for the moment i'm here you [TS]

00:00:47   doing this to yourself [TS]

00:00:49   I know it's the summer of lots of travel [TS]

00:00:51   and not fun [TS]

00:00:53   hashtag queen creek SC I've at least [TS]

00:00:56   given myself five weeks before i go back [TS]

00:00:58   oh yeah what are you going back for I [TS]

00:00:59   don't even remember i'm going to Memphis [TS]

00:01:01   oh right a real afms two-year [TS]

00:01:03   anniversary that should be fun [TS]

00:01:05   yeah that's going to be looking forward [TS]

00:01:06   to it although memphis in August seems [TS]

00:01:08   like a really bad idea [TS]

00:01:09   I'm sure it's fine i think im gonna melt [TS]

00:01:12   look I think unlike London Memphis [TS]

00:01:15   should be built for the fact that it [TS]

00:01:17   gets to be a hundred degrees so you [TS]

00:01:18   should be fine as long as you stay [TS]

00:01:19   indoors i had just go there to stay in [TS]

00:01:21   my hotel for the whole time so it's too [TS]

00:01:23   hot to go outside [TS]

00:01:23   just stay here it's a great approach [TS]

00:01:25   right to the vacations is staying in the [TS]

00:01:27   hotel [TS]

00:01:28   yeah it's great actually literally no [TS]

00:01:31   problem with this so you should have a [TS]

00:01:33   great time in Memphis just be a good [TS]

00:01:35   hotel when you were in the redc people [TS]

00:01:38   know that you were in San Francisco but [TS]

00:01:40   you actually went into Moscow knee where [TS]

00:01:43   they hold the developer conference you [TS]

00:01:45   found a way and I think you broke for [TS]

00:01:46   like an open window or something like [TS]

00:01:48   that is the word on the street [TS]

00:01:50   what did you actually do there [TS]

00:01:54   what did I do yeah I stuck around that [TS]

00:01:59   that's what i did was sneaking around [TS]

00:02:02   and tell that you go and see some like [TS]

00:02:04   talks law like sessions it was sneaking [TS]

00:02:08   around means being super Sneaky and also [TS]

00:02:11   tweeting about affected her [TS]

00:02:13   visit www.uscash Nikki for about six [TS]

00:02:16   minutes i think before you started [TS]

00:02:17   incessantly tweeting about the fact that [TS]

00:02:20   you've broken in [TS]

00:02:21   well what actually occurred was i got in [TS]

00:02:24   there there were a few things that I did [TS]

00:02:27   really want to do and then once I felt [TS]

00:02:29   like okay great i have had minimum [TS]

00:02:31   viable WWDC experience and if I get [TS]

00:02:34   caught now I won't mind so much then I [TS]

00:02:36   started tweeting so I was always quiet [TS]

00:02:38   and mute I think for the first few hours [TS]

00:02:40   and then afterwards I got a hell with [TS]

00:02:43   this i'm just going to tweet about the [TS]

00:02:44   fact that i'm here because it's funny to [TS]

00:02:46   do I mean the answer to your question [TS]

00:02:49   what did i do their mean primarily I was [TS]

00:02:53   really just a tourist at WWDC i am not a [TS]

00:02:58   developer i have no real reason to be [TS]

00:03:00   there whatsoever but I am interested in [TS]

00:03:05   apple i'm interested in development in [TS]

00:03:09   an abstract kind of way i'm curious to [TS]

00:03:11   see a little bit of of not exactly [TS]

00:03:14   behind the scenes but a little bit more [TS]

00:03:16   of the business side of Apple like what [TS]

00:03:20   is it that Apple does with this [TS]

00:03:21   conference where the kinds of people who [TS]

00:03:23   were going there [TS]

00:03:24   how do these toxic oh I was just curious [TS]

00:03:26   to see all over this stuff in person and [TS]

00:03:29   so I went in and actually how I attended [TS]

00:03:33   a few of the sessions I die just trying [TS]

00:03:35   to pick titles that seemed at least [TS]

00:03:37   vaguely relevant to my interests [TS]

00:03:41   you sound surprised by that Mike I mean [TS]

00:03:44   I know that you have a better base [TS]

00:03:46   understanding than i do but some of this [TS]

00:03:49   stuff but this at any session I've ever [TS]

00:03:51   seen kind of really bores me because [TS]

00:03:54   they start to encode onstage and I just [TS]

00:03:56   start can't understand it no matter how [TS]

00:03:58   much I try blue yeah this is a case [TS]

00:04:02   where I have no experience with Swift [TS]

00:04:07   and i have no experience with see [TS]

00:04:10   Swift's predecessor language I mean that [TS]

00:04:13   the language i am most familiar with is [TS]

00:04:15   actually lisp from years ago which is a [TS]

00:04:18   bizarre language and I don't even know [TS]

00:04:21   what that one is [TS]

00:04:22   yeah if you just look at what list looks [TS]

00:04:25   like it is [TS]

00:04:26   no other programming language because [TS]

00:04:27   the whole thing is based on parentheses [TS]

00:04:30   it doesn't it doesn't even have like it [TS]

00:04:34   is just missing many of the features [TS]

00:04:35   that you would expect a normal computer [TS]

00:04:37   programming language to have em yeah [TS]

00:04:39   well those good features double missed [TS]

00:04:41   yes that's right like you know which one [TS]

00:04:43   the good ones yes all of the good one [TS]

00:04:45   has all the bad ones that now it's it's [TS]

00:04:48   it's simple and beautiful and [TS]

00:04:50   impractical for very many situations but [TS]

00:04:54   nonetheless is the one that I have the [TS]

00:04:55   most experience when she is it for this [TS]

00:04:57   is the one that's used for some of the [TS]

00:04:59   stuff now that's being done in [TS]

00:05:01   artificial intelligence research [TS]

00:05:03   oh so out of the time it was used for [TS]

00:05:06   genetic algorithms in genetic [TS]

00:05:08   programming i have no idea if the [TS]

00:05:11   language is still in use today for those [TS]

00:05:13   purposes but you know ten years ago this [TS]

00:05:16   was the language that because of some of [TS]

00:05:19   its strange features was very very [TS]

00:05:21   useful for doing the kind of thing where [TS]

00:05:23   you are writing a program to program [TS]

00:05:25   itself as opposed to writing it to [TS]

00:05:27   explicitly solve a problem so lisp very [TS]

00:05:31   very weird at and probably not a [TS]

00:05:33   language you would want to use under [TS]

00:05:34   most circumstances but the thing that I [TS]

00:05:36   was familiar with the years ago and [TS]

00:05:38   while i could not program my way out of [TS]

00:05:42   a paper bag today even with Lisp if i'm [TS]

00:05:46   sitting in a session at WWDC and they do [TS]

00:05:48   the throwing code on the screen thing [TS]

00:05:51   while I will agree with you it does the [TS]

00:05:54   the level of boringness personally does [TS]

00:05:57   go up quite a lot during those moments I [TS]

00:05:59   can still at least follow the gist of [TS]

00:06:02   what is going on [TS]

00:06:04   like I have a sense of what they're [TS]

00:06:05   talking about or or what this is code is [TS]

00:06:08   doing even though i can't follow the [TS]

00:06:11   details so that's why sitting in a [TS]

00:06:15   session it was an interesting thing to [TS]

00:06:17   do during this experience like I said I [TS]

00:06:20   just tried to pick ones that were [TS]

00:06:22   relevant to my interests so the first [TS]

00:06:24   one I went to was on research kit so [TS]

00:06:27   they were doing a little session about [TS]

00:06:29   some of the changes with research kit [TS]

00:06:32   which is their system that allows [TS]

00:06:35   scientists and medical researchers to [TS]

00:06:37   try to collect data from patients and [TS]

00:06:39   try to give feedback to patients and [TS]

00:06:41   that was interesting to see I'm like [TS]

00:06:43   what what they're up to there and then I [TS]

00:06:45   also just set it on another one which [TS]

00:06:47   was about developing games for the Apple [TS]

00:06:50   watch [TS]

00:06:50   I like the whole notion of that i [TS]

00:06:52   thought was really funny because there's [TS]

00:06:54   so little space here I was just kind of [TS]

00:06:55   curious to see you know like what do [TS]

00:06:59   they think is a viable option for a game [TS]

00:07:01   and that means to date the only thing i [TS]

00:07:05   have ever seen which I thought was kind [TS]

00:07:07   of an interesting game for Apple watch [TS]

00:07:08   with something called i think it was [TS]

00:07:11   called lifeline [TS]

00:07:12   yes very optional and you have to kind [TS]

00:07:15   of talk to the astral right yeah that is [TS]

00:07:17   that i thought was interesting begin its [TS]

00:07:20   it's essentially like a little text [TS]

00:07:21   adventures is kind of what's occurring [TS]

00:07:22   but I thought the the whole idea of a [TS]

00:07:25   wrist communicator and you're sending [TS]

00:07:26   messages back and forth like it really [TS]

00:07:28   worked on the Apple watch but i was [TS]

00:07:30   curious to see like what are they [TS]

00:07:31   developing for games in general like if [TS]

00:07:34   they're having a session here they [TS]

00:07:35   clearly think that there is something to [TS]

00:07:36   the idea of gaming on the Apple watch so [TS]

00:07:39   i went in and i watch that and I thought [TS]

00:07:40   it was interesting and i also like to [TS]

00:07:42   try to look out for the things that [TS]

00:07:44   Apple isn't saying so I couldn't help [TS]

00:07:47   but notice during the entire time I was [TS]

00:07:49   sitting in that Apple watch session that [TS]

00:07:52   they were never ever mentioning force [TS]

00:07:55   pressing on the Apple watch and then I [TS]

00:07:57   cast my mind back to the WWDC [TS]

00:07:59   announcement I thought huh i don't think [TS]

00:08:01   they mentioned anything about force [TS]

00:08:03   pressing there either [TS]

00:08:04   and so just little things like that i [TS]

00:08:06   just get curious and I think I wonder [TS]

00:08:08   what's up with that there are many [TS]

00:08:09   situations here what it would seem to [TS]

00:08:11   make sense that you want to have force [TS]

00:08:12   pressing on the screen especially for [TS]

00:08:14   games but it seems notably absent so [TS]

00:08:17   yeah I just like being in the sessions [TS]

00:08:19   and trying to read between the lines of [TS]

00:08:21   what Apple's upto which is you know [TS]

00:08:24   always always fun doing the kind of [TS]

00:08:25   Criminology of Apple discussions and [TS]

00:08:29   events so yeah that was a is primarily [TS]

00:08:32   what i was doing in the morning [TS]

00:08:34   I'm pleased that you did it there was a [TS]

00:08:36   conversation where I made that I was way [TS]

00:08:39   too chicken to do this to sneak and I'd [TS]

00:08:44   be too scared to get caught [TS]

00:08:46   see the trick with so many of these [TS]

00:08:48   things is to just try to act very [TS]

00:08:52   confidently when you walk through the [TS]

00:08:53   door but this is why i know that i [TS]

00:08:55   couldn't because I would be to scared of [TS]

00:08:57   getting cool right [TS]

00:08:58   I couldn't act that way just gotta walk [TS]

00:09:01   through the door with your forged and or [TS]

00:09:04   stolen tickets and or gifted ticket who [TS]

00:09:06   knows and just you know look [TS]

00:09:09   the trick is like you look past the guy [TS]

00:09:11   at the door like you're already in right [TS]

00:09:14   like you're not concerned what he's [TS]

00:09:15   thinking about when you're walking in [TS]

00:09:17   the door if you looked nervously at the [TS]

00:09:19   security garden and tremblingly hand [TS]

00:09:21   over your ticket as i'm sure you would [TS]

00:09:23   have done then they're going to know [TS]

00:09:24   they're going to know something's up but [TS]

00:09:25   you act like you're already in the event [TS]

00:09:28   as you're walking in the event and [TS]

00:09:29   you're just being minorly inconvenienced [TS]

00:09:31   by having to hand over the ticket that's [TS]

00:09:33   what you do that i did worked work just [TS]

00:09:36   fine [TS]

00:09:36   good and the fact that i had a valid [TS]

00:09:38   ticket probably helps yeah it was [TS]

00:09:39   evaluated right like the biggest air [TS]

00:09:42   quotes it take existed [TS]

00:09:45   yeah that's Joe that's true the ticket [TS]

00:09:46   existed might not have been valid for me [TS]

00:09:49   I think they're not transferable [TS]

00:09:51   so what about the people like you to [TS]

00:09:53   speak to anyone where you staying [TS]

00:09:55   completely incognito because of not only [TS]

00:09:57   the fact that you like to be incognito [TS]

00:09:59   you also they're sneaking yeah so the [TS]

00:10:02   people is an interesting thing once [TS]

00:10:05   people knew that I was at WWDC I did [TS]

00:10:08   start getting recognized by a few people [TS]

00:10:10   who were there and that was fine and [TS]

00:10:13   also i was able to actually end up [TS]

00:10:17   speaking to a few people who make apps [TS]

00:10:21   that I use which was an interesting [TS]

00:10:24   experience to be able to do that I feel [TS]

00:10:26   so sorry for those people I why do you [TS]

00:10:30   say that Mike why do you say that Q [TS]

00:10:31   because I metric all hey I really love [TS]

00:10:33   your app here is 65 features i would [TS]

00:10:36   like you to implement the only I need to [TS]

00:10:40   see I try to take the entire opposite [TS]

00:10:46   tack in those moments you might think [TS]

00:10:48   that I would harass the developers but [TS]

00:10:50   mostly I feel like people do things for [TS]

00:10:53   their own reasons if someone asks then [TS]

00:10:56   maybe I'm ready to offer a bunch of [TS]

00:10:58   things that I would [TS]

00:10:59   like but even then I know full well [TS]

00:11:01   which features are just for me and so I [TS]

00:11:03   will preface that in the conversation of [TS]

00:11:05   this is a feature that you should not [TS]

00:11:07   implement because it is just for me but [TS]

00:11:09   I'm still going to mention if you ask [TS]

00:11:11   all right i'll do that kind of thing but [TS]

00:11:14   I I don't feel the need to harass any of [TS]

00:11:18   the developers i am fortunate enough to [TS]

00:11:20   speak to and really I just like being [TS]

00:11:22   able to talk to people and get some [TS]

00:11:24   sense of why have they structured the [TS]

00:11:29   app this way or like what interesting [TS]

00:11:31   directions are they may be going to take [TS]

00:11:32   it in the future I think that's a it's [TS]

00:11:35   just an interesting thing to be able to [TS]

00:11:37   do and something like being on the [TS]

00:11:40   inside of WWDC has an unusually high [TS]

00:11:44   density of people who work on a thing [TS]

00:11:48   which I directly use so after the [TS]

00:11:52   sessions are over i was kind of running [TS]

00:11:54   around and meeting a few different [TS]

00:11:56   people for a few different things and [TS]

00:11:58   that's partly partly why i was saying on [TS]

00:12:00   Twitter that i was i was at WWDC because [TS]

00:12:04   i was able to kind of catch a few people [TS]

00:12:06   that way and in particular i was [TS]

00:12:08   actually lucky enough that the guy named [TS]

00:12:12   Harlan was able to give me a demo of the [TS]

00:12:15   thing that I was most interested in from [TS]

00:12:17   the WTC announcement which was [TS]

00:12:20   playgrounds for swift for the ipad so I [TS]

00:12:24   felt very fortunate that at one point I [TS]

00:12:27   was able to wander down to like this [TS]

00:12:30   this big ground area WWDC where you [TS]

00:12:33   could work with apple employees and he [TS]

00:12:36   was able to show me the thing that had [TS]

00:12:39   been demo'd earlier in the week of [TS]

00:12:40   apples attempt to put a program on their [TS]

00:12:45   iPads which can be used to learn how to [TS]

00:12:49   code in Swift so that was very exciting [TS]

00:12:52   that was probably the highlight of the [TS]

00:12:53   day being able to play around with that [TS]

00:12:56   thing which i am super interested in it [TS]

00:12:59   looks very very powerful I it is very [TS]

00:13:04   impressive to see it in person and to [TS]

00:13:07   discuss some of the ways this might be [TS]

00:13:10   implemented in the future or where it [TS]

00:13:12   might be going in [TS]

00:13:13   yeah i was i was very very impressed [TS]

00:13:14   with it and i felt quite lucky to be [TS]

00:13:16   able to do that if you installed iOS 10 [TS]

00:13:20   on any of your iPad's now I haven't [TS]

00:13:22   installed anything yet i will probably [TS]

00:13:25   wait for one of the public betas and [TS]

00:13:29   then i will install it on one of my [TS]

00:13:33   least use iPads yeah primarily so that i [TS]

00:13:36   can play around with the Swift [TS]

00:13:38   playground thing i have it on one of my [TS]

00:13:40   old or iPads what I only have one old [TS]

00:13:42   ipad the ipad air 2 and have it on there [TS]

00:13:45   and I've been enjoying the stickers and [TS]

00:13:46   all of the emoji stuff moon texting [TS]

00:13:50   federico lose that has been really good [TS]

00:13:52   of course of course you're going [TS]

00:13:54   straight for the stickers the most [TS]

00:13:56   exciting thing i don't i don't agree i [TS]

00:13:58   think swift playground is the most [TS]

00:13:59   exciting thing I think you are wrong i [TS]

00:14:01   keep meaning to play with it but i [TS]

00:14:02   haven't yet its installed i just haven't [TS]

00:14:04   done anything with it because i'm too [TS]

00:14:05   busy sending hot stickers to everybody [TS]

00:14:08   yeah of course of course Mike I don't [TS]

00:14:12   know man i was thinking maybe we could [TS]

00:14:14   do a spin-off podcast where you and I [TS]

00:14:16   could learn Swift together called [TS]

00:14:18   cortech I think that's uh huh that was [TS]

00:14:21   going to happen but it seems like since [TS]

00:14:23   you just distracted by the stickers [TS]

00:14:25   I'll probably need to find another [TS]

00:14:26   co-host another developer co-host for [TS]

00:14:29   cortech I can do it only if we spell it [TS]

00:14:31   with AK I I'm maybe maybe that could [TS]

00:14:37   work [TS]

00:14:37   SI ella tek cortech perfect i think this [TS]

00:14:43   will cause no confusion at all on the [TS]

00:14:46   relay page not at all i don't know why [TS]

00:14:49   you have an issue the brain which would [TS]

00:14:51   be made out of metal and we got to go [TS]

00:14:53   yeah yeah see you get can envision it [TS]

00:14:55   already logo would be green instead my [TS]

00:14:57   computer green perfect [TS]

00:14:59   cortech episode 1 UI views [TS]

00:15:05   what are they I don't know that's every [TS]

00:15:09   episode just get what is it I have no [TS]

00:15:12   idea i don't know all i know is that i [TS]

00:15:15   am making a little guy move around on a [TS]

00:15:18   playground [TS]

00:15:18   this is my level of coding skill [TS]

00:15:21   today's episode of cortex is brought to [TS]

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00:15:46   pay you like my card by paypal imagine [TS]

00:15:49   that world while that world existed [TS]

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00:16:40   knows that you came to them from this [TS]

00:16:42   show thank you so much to freshbooks for [TS]

00:16:44   their support cortex and we let them so [TS]

00:16:47   straight after WWDC instead of going [TS]

00:16:50   home which I would have wanted to do she [TS]

00:16:54   maybe should have done headed to LA and [TS]

00:16:57   instead yes to seek the bright lights of [TS]

00:17:00   Hollywood and to attend VidCon yeah what [TS]

00:17:07   is VidCon can you explain food con like [TS]

00:17:09   in a one-liner what what is it because [TS]

00:17:11   it feels like the YouTube conference [TS]

00:17:14   no mike is not the YouTube conference it [TS]

00:17:16   is the online video conference [TS]

00:17:19   oh I forget about all the other online [TS]

00:17:21   video services that are probably rolled [TS]

00:17:23   into their makeup a big part of it yes [TS]

00:17:26   they VidCon is not the YouTube [TS]

00:17:29   conference [TS]

00:17:29   they're very clear on that despite that [TS]

00:17:32   YouTube announces new features and their [TS]

00:17:35   CEO speaks on the main stage several [TS]

00:17:39   times and that they bring in all the big [TS]

00:17:41   YouTube stars it is the online video [TS]

00:17:43   conference I and they also have scores [TS]

00:17:47   of video producers I guess [TS]

00:17:51   yes somewhere and it was gone they had [TS]

00:17:53   they had five people and they had all of [TS]

00:17:55   them [TS]

00:17:56   yeah I have no idea at all Paul video [TS]

00:18:00   they're in a different business they [TS]

00:18:01   have a different business model video [TS]

00:18:03   but it's still fun to just make fun [TS]

00:18:04   sometimes [TS]

00:18:05   or maybe the Amazon service that was [TS]

00:18:08   announced a few months ago that I [TS]

00:18:10   haven't heard anything about yeah oh [TS]

00:18:12   yeah forgot about that so I just [TS]

00:18:16   remember that the other day and I was [TS]

00:18:17   like what happened with that I think I [TS]

00:18:19   signed up for it and then I just totally [TS]

00:18:21   forgot about it [TS]

00:18:22   oh well but yes so with amazon strongly [TS]

00:18:26   represented at VidCon too so just to be [TS]

00:18:29   clear it is not the YouTube conference [TS]

00:18:31   YouTube does not run it it is the online [TS]

00:18:34   video conference and it is run by the [TS]

00:18:38   vlog brothers i think i think this is [TS]

00:18:41   this sixth year it's it's been going and [TS]

00:18:46   it has turned very rapidly into just [TS]

00:18:51   this enormous enormous industry event [TS]

00:18:57   that this year had I think 26,000 people [TS]

00:19:02   it's absolutely absolutely enormous [TS]

00:19:05   thing and for comparison's sake WWDC has [TS]

00:19:09   5,000 people so it's five times larger [TS]

00:19:11   than WWDC no don't wanna sound good [TS]

00:19:19   it's at it's absolutely enormous and [TS]

00:19:21   because of its enormity it's it's a [TS]

00:19:25   little bit hard to try to describe what [TS]

00:19:28   the experience is like being there but i [TS]

00:19:32   guess you can say there's there's three [TS]

00:19:34   main groups of people who are showing up [TS]

00:19:36   there are people who work in the [TS]

00:19:39   industry of online video and this can [TS]

00:19:42   mean all kinds of stuff this can mean [TS]

00:19:43   advertiser's this can mean production [TS]

00:19:46   companies this can mean agents like this [TS]

00:19:50   is all the industry stuff there are [TS]

00:19:52   creators so people like myself people [TS]

00:19:55   who produce online video and then there [TS]

00:19:58   are an enormous number of fans who are [TS]

00:20:00   showing up to scream when their favorite [TS]

00:20:04   YouTube person comes onstage like it's [TS]

00:20:07   just it's just an enormous enormous [TS]

00:20:08   gathering that is difficult to put into [TS]

00:20:11   words and that i had avoided for very [TS]

00:20:15   many years but because of real Akon [TS]

00:20:19   stroke WWDC week being the weak directly [TS]

00:20:23   before VidCon i decided to basically [TS]

00:20:27   have a two-week period of i'm going to [TS]

00:20:34   knuckle down and I'm going to meet a lot [TS]

00:20:36   of people this is what i'm going to do [TS]

00:20:38   i'm just going to set aside these two [TS]

00:20:40   weeks i might as well they're both in [TS]

00:20:43   California if I'm if I'm flying out [TS]

00:20:45   there for one I might as well fly out [TS]

00:20:47   there for the other then it becomes kind [TS]

00:20:49   of a an interesting way to spend a bunch [TS]

00:20:52   of time during the summer so that's what [TS]

00:20:54   i did i spent two weeks at each event [TS]

00:20:57   meeting an enormous number of people and [TS]

00:21:00   then being tremendously exhausted [TS]

00:21:03   afterward [TS]

00:21:05   do you consider this networking you say [TS]

00:21:08   that that's what you're doing here [TS]

00:21:09   that's an interesting question i want to [TS]

00:21:12   say no because the word networking it's [TS]

00:21:16   like a sleazy word isn't it doesn't feel [TS]

00:21:18   that was become my dirty work [TS]

00:21:20   yeah but I i actually think that the [TS]

00:21:23   core of what it is is a good thing and [TS]

00:21:26   when I'm saying that working here i'm [TS]

00:21:29   not talking about like going to the bar [TS]

00:21:32   and doing like a corporate speed-dating [TS]

00:21:35   thing something I have seen and avoided [TS]

00:21:38   so you can get to know the people in [TS]

00:21:40   your adjacent teams [TS]

00:21:42   oh I'm busy to save me yeah many years [TS]

00:21:44   ago I did one of those kind of [TS]

00:21:46   businesses speed dating things [TS]

00:21:48   oh you did oh I'd like I don't like this [TS]

00:21:51   that was that was that was a different [TS]

00:21:54   me in a different industry many many [TS]

00:21:56   years ago but even then I was like nope [TS]

00:21:59   do not want no small parts because of [TS]

00:22:03   how many hands are shaking in a short [TS]

00:22:04   period of time exactly but I mean it [TS]

00:22:08   more in the sense of meeting new people [TS]

00:22:11   who are in your industry that you're [TS]

00:22:13   getting to know to maybe strike up some [TS]

00:22:15   kind of working relationship or you know [TS]

00:22:17   maybe even feel like for friendship or [TS]

00:22:19   business or just so you have more [TS]

00:22:22   contacts that is something ever pops up [TS]

00:22:25   one day you can be like I know someone [TS]

00:22:26   for this it's interesting because i have [TS]

00:22:29   also been thinking a bunch about why did [TS]

00:22:33   I do this because that this thing I i [TS]

00:22:39   think almost everybody i have ever [TS]

00:22:41   mentioned it to that I was going to go [TS]

00:22:43   to WWDC and VidCon one the week after [TS]

00:22:47   the other was quite surprised that i [TS]

00:22:51   would do such a thing and I myself was a [TS]

00:22:55   little bit surprised that is even [TS]

00:22:56   crossed my radar as a thing to do but [TS]

00:22:58   part of it was I've like I've just been [TS]

00:23:03   thinking about how i did this and I'm [TS]

00:23:06   doing this year of less as part of my [TS]

00:23:09   theme for the year and it's been [TS]

00:23:13   crossing my mind about like what do i do [TS]

00:23:15   after the year of less and one of the [TS]

00:23:18   things I was toying around with was the [TS]

00:23:20   idea of like a year of new like maybe [TS]

00:23:22   doing new things and this certainly fell [TS]

00:23:26   into the category of something that was [TS]

00:23:30   new to do and in addition to just being [TS]

00:23:34   a new thing to do it was also just a ton [TS]

00:23:36   of new people to meet and a and a bunch [TS]

00:23:39   of new people to interact with and my [TS]

00:23:45   feeling is not so much that i'm going [TS]

00:23:49   there and I'm sort of networking with [TS]

00:23:53   the idea that these people are business [TS]

00:23:55   contacts i think my primary my primary [TS]

00:23:59   feeling from this [TS]

00:24:01   was just one of there are very few [TS]

00:24:05   people in the world who do the kind of [TS]

00:24:08   work that I do especially when you start [TS]

00:24:11   talking about the online video side of [TS]

00:24:14   it and doubly so when you start talking [TS]

00:24:16   about the online video side of it where [TS]

00:24:18   my face is not visible on camera like [TS]

00:24:21   that starts getting into be the very [TS]

00:24:23   very small numbers of people who do that [TS]

00:24:26   and so part of going on this trip was [TS]

00:24:34   being able to meet some new people in [TS]

00:24:37   that field in particular which was the [TS]

00:24:38   thing that I was able to do I was very [TS]

00:24:40   glad to be able to do it but even more [TS]

00:24:43   broadly I find that people who make [TS]

00:24:48   their living in a public way and so this [TS]

00:24:53   can include people like developers right [TS]

00:24:56   they are making a thing and they are [TS]

00:24:58   putting it out in public for this can [TS]

00:25:00   include lots of people in the periphery [TS]

00:25:03   of the whole YouTube world of like they [TS]

00:25:04   make a thing and they put it out in [TS]

00:25:07   public even just knowing more people [TS]

00:25:11   like that is it's just nice to have [TS]

00:25:14   contacts with people who do similar [TS]

00:25:17   things because even if you work in in [TS]

00:25:19   different areas there are a lot of [TS]

00:25:22   comparisons and similar experiences so i [TS]

00:25:25   can have conversations with developers [TS]

00:25:28   where I you know I don't know how to [TS]

00:25:31   write code but we can have a [TS]

00:25:33   conversation that is sort of about like [TS]

00:25:36   the creative process because there are [TS]

00:25:37   similarities between writing code and [TS]

00:25:40   writing a script they require a similar [TS]

00:25:42   kind of work and then there's also [TS]

00:25:44   similar kind of responses to putting [TS]

00:25:46   your workout in public so i just found [TS]

00:25:51   it valuable to interact with people who [TS]

00:25:54   I mean aside from you Mike I know nobody [TS]

00:25:58   in london in my social circle who does [TS]

00:26:02   work like this and so we can always just [TS]

00:26:04   be kind of weird [TS]

00:26:07   that when you do work in public on the [TS]

00:26:11   internet you feel like sort of connected [TS]

00:26:13   to a bunch of people but they're always [TS]

00:26:16   going to be geographically distant [TS]

00:26:19   because the frequency of anyone doing [TS]

00:26:22   this work is so rare so i get i guess [TS]

00:26:27   like in that sense it's networking [TS]

00:26:29   because my feeling was a bit like i am [TS]

00:26:32   going to meet up with colleagues they [TS]

00:26:35   might not do the exact same thing that I [TS]

00:26:37   do but there is a colleague like [TS]

00:26:40   relationship with a whole bunch of [TS]

00:26:43   people and also i can go meet with [TS]

00:26:46   people who are new colleagues to me by [TS]

00:26:49   people i have never interacted before [TS]

00:26:51   but we have this kind of commonality of [TS]

00:26:54   doing work in public so i don't know [TS]

00:26:59   does that is my very long probably [TS]

00:27:02   overly detailed response to was I [TS]

00:27:03   networking like I guess [TS]

00:27:06   yes but it depends slightly on on what [TS]

00:27:11   you mean by networking but they were [TS]

00:27:13   certainly know speed dating business [TS]

00:27:16   networking though based on the type of [TS]

00:27:18   networking the I think often do you were [TS]

00:27:21   networking like this is how I think of [TS]

00:27:24   it me just meeting people in your [TS]

00:27:26   industry like I i recommend to people [TS]

00:27:28   always if you do something like software [TS]

00:27:30   development or your design or something [TS]

00:27:32   like that there are probably meetups in [TS]

00:27:34   your area like you don't have to go to [TS]

00:27:36   California you know that they're there [TS]

00:27:38   are likely meetups that you can go to [TS]

00:27:40   that will have like-minded people doing [TS]

00:27:43   this kind of thing so you can make these [TS]

00:27:44   contacts yourself [TS]

00:27:46   I think that even though you're kind of [TS]

00:27:48   maybe approaching this from a sense of I [TS]

00:27:50   just want to know people you know who [TS]

00:27:52   for kind of camaraderie and you know a [TS]

00:27:56   sense of not kind of feeling alone in [TS]

00:27:59   this which you can at times especially [TS]

00:28:00   when you work at home and in solitary [TS]

00:28:03   ways that we both do [TS]

00:28:04   it's nice to know that there are people [TS]

00:28:06   out there that you can talk to that you [TS]

00:28:09   are aware doing the same kind of thing [TS]

00:28:11   that you are who [TS]

00:28:13   but there really is a business side of [TS]

00:28:15   it that you potentially don't see right [TS]

00:28:18   now look at me and you right [TS]

00:28:20   you reached out to me when I started [TS]

00:28:23   relay them and we and it's got a similar [TS]

00:28:26   kind of thing and we went for lunch and [TS]

00:28:28   then we are working together like many [TS]

00:28:30   months down the line and this is the [TS]

00:28:32   same for me for me going to WDC WDC is [TS]

00:28:36   one of the most important things on my [TS]

00:28:38   calendar is one of the most vital things [TS]

00:28:41   that i do as part of my business in the [TS]

00:28:43   year and it has been the most vital [TS]

00:28:44   thing I've done in business over the [TS]

00:28:46   last four years I've attended there [TS]

00:28:48   because I get to meet people and put [TS]

00:28:51   faces to names and kind of get in front [TS]

00:28:54   of people that I think are doing [TS]

00:28:56   interesting work or that i enjoy their [TS]

00:28:59   work and then they get to learn a little [TS]

00:29:00   bit about me they get to see how I [TS]

00:29:02   interact and its kind of led to what [TS]

00:29:06   real anthem is now you know other people [TS]

00:29:08   that we work with people that I've met [TS]

00:29:10   and that Steven's met at these types of [TS]

00:29:12   events and over time we struck up [TS]

00:29:15   friendships and working relationships [TS]

00:29:17   which eventually built to the thing that [TS]

00:29:19   I'm doing now I think it's really [TS]

00:29:20   important to have these kind of [TS]

00:29:22   in-person meetings and conversations to [TS]

00:29:24   people because it helps strengthen bonds [TS]

00:29:27   even if you know somebody online and you [TS]

00:29:29   talked to them every single day of [TS]

00:29:31   multiple messaging services it can be [TS]

00:29:34   really important to just see how they [TS]

00:29:36   talk and look at their body language and [TS]

00:29:38   see their face when they talk to you in [TS]

00:29:40   these in person scenarios because it [TS]

00:29:43   really kind of just helps fill out the [TS]

00:29:44   picture of that person because then when [TS]

00:29:46   you're apart again and you're talking as [TS]

00:29:48   you were before you then have a [TS]

00:29:51   different kind of feeling and sense for [TS]

00:29:53   that individual and that could be so [TS]

00:29:55   important for building the relationships [TS]

00:29:57   that you want to build whatever their [TS]

00:29:58   friendship or business [TS]

00:29:59   yeah i definitely agree that no matter [TS]

00:30:03   how much online contact you have with [TS]

00:30:07   people it is fundamentally different to [TS]

00:30:11   talk to people in person and that a [TS]

00:30:15   relationship is always different after [TS]

00:30:18   some amount of in-person time no matter [TS]

00:30:21   how small has been spent and there's [TS]

00:30:24   just no way around that it's I think [TS]

00:30:27   this is just a side effect of [TS]

00:30:29   you know humans being the monkeys that [TS]

00:30:32   we are that there there's something [TS]

00:30:34   there's something different that happens [TS]

00:30:38   in your brain after you meet someone in [TS]

00:30:41   real life I think your monkey brain does [TS]

00:30:43   a better job of modeling the other [TS]

00:30:46   person in your mind when you are then [TS]

00:30:49   talking to them online later or it it [TS]

00:30:52   makes the person more real in this in [TS]

00:30:56   this way which is undefinable there were [TS]

00:30:59   a number of people that i met this [TS]

00:31:01   summer who I had had a bunch of texts [TS]

00:31:05   interchanges with over the internet but [TS]

00:31:08   it's still fundamentally different than [TS]

00:31:09   when you actually see them in person and [TS]

00:31:12   spend some time together in person it's [TS]

00:31:14   just like there's some part of your [TS]

00:31:16   brain that kind of needs this or that [TS]

00:31:20   that treats things differently when the [TS]

00:31:24   when the person is more embodied for you [TS]

00:31:27   and I do think that this is um it's like [TS]

00:31:31   the next level of i wrote this article a [TS]

00:31:33   while back called faceless voices [TS]

00:31:36   talking about radio voices or narration [TS]

00:31:39   voices and how something in your brain [TS]

00:31:42   changes if you ever see a picture of [TS]

00:31:44   that person like if you just hear [TS]

00:31:45   someone's voice and then you see what [TS]

00:31:47   they look like your brain treats it [TS]

00:31:49   differently and I really do I really do [TS]

00:31:52   think that that's something going on in [TS]

00:31:53   the mind that if you hear a voice [TS]

00:31:55   unconnected from a face your brain [TS]

00:31:58   experiences in a different way than once [TS]

00:32:00   you know what the face looks like and I [TS]

00:32:02   think there's another level past that [TS]

00:32:04   which is you've heard the person you [TS]

00:32:08   know what their face looks like but now [TS]

00:32:10   they are sitting in front of you and you [TS]

00:32:14   the two of you are exchanging you know [TS]

00:32:17   nonverbal communication in the form of [TS]

00:32:20   body language or the way you're looking [TS]

00:32:21   i really do think that that matters a [TS]

00:32:23   lot for human interaction the internet [TS]

00:32:27   can't replace that yet maybe when vr [TS]

00:32:31   gets good enough but not at the moment i [TS]

00:32:34   will just reiterate what would you were [TS]

00:32:35   saying earlier though that even if it is [TS]

00:32:39   not my intention to make business [TS]

00:32:41   connections that doing this kind [TS]

00:32:43   stuff in the past has has definitely [TS]

00:32:45   resulted in business opportunities like [TS]

00:32:49   the very first conference of this that I [TS]

00:32:51   ever went to was this conference [TS]

00:32:53   organized by Henry of minutephysics [TS]

00:32:55   called brainstem at the perimeter [TS]

00:32:57   institute in canada and for various [TS]

00:33:02   reasons i was trying to leave my [TS]

00:33:04   teaching job at the exact same time at [TS]

00:33:07   that conference was happening it was [TS]

00:33:09   just like this horrible horrible [TS]

00:33:10   disaster of like a difficult time to to [TS]

00:33:13   get to Canada for that conference it was [TS]

00:33:16   there was a incredible nightmare but I [TS]

00:33:19   was determined I was determined to get [TS]

00:33:22   there and I still really think that that [TS]

00:33:26   might be one of the most defining [TS]

00:33:28   conferences i ever go to because it was [TS]

00:33:31   the first time that I met a bunch of [TS]

00:33:33   people who are now professional [TS]

00:33:35   colleagues and friends and like I'm [TS]

00:33:38   absolutely sure that if i had never gone [TS]

00:33:39   to that brain stem conference I would [TS]

00:33:42   never have started the hell original [TS]

00:33:44   podcast with Brady because that was the [TS]

00:33:46   first time that I met him and because I [TS]

00:33:49   met him then when I met him again at [TS]

00:33:52   later conferences that YouTube put on [TS]

00:33:54   now we were meeting for the first time [TS]

00:33:56   we were already meeting as friends right [TS]

00:33:59   and starting a little bit earlier makes [TS]

00:34:01   a difference and I also think that like [TS]

00:34:03   the random acts of intelligence show [TS]

00:34:05   that happened a couple years ago now [TS]

00:34:08   that would have never been put on if the [TS]

00:34:11   five of us hadn't met at brainstem as so [TS]

00:34:15   like and those are definitely cases of [TS]

00:34:17   getting to know people and then thinking [TS]

00:34:19   hey maybe we can work together on a [TS]

00:34:20   podcast or hey that you know the five of [TS]

00:34:22   us really get along together maybe we [TS]

00:34:24   could do some kind of fun one-off show [TS]

00:34:27   you you never know where it's going to [TS]

00:34:29   go and like you said you know I our own [TS]

00:34:32   podcast was just a side effect of me [TS]

00:34:34   reaching out to you [TS]

00:34:35   mainly because like oh look it's another [TS]

00:34:37   Creator who lives in London like let me [TS]

00:34:39   send him a message because I don't know [TS]

00:34:41   anybody else who lives in the city you [TS]

00:34:44   know they're like oh surprise surprise [TS]

00:34:46   like we we do similar work and so we get [TS]

00:34:49   along and then and then eventually you [TS]

00:34:51   know you pitch me on a podcasting and [TS]

00:34:53   and here we are so whilst it may have [TS]

00:34:56   been exhausting and crazy and huge and [TS]

00:34:59   unwieldy Lee who you probably have made [TS]

00:35:02   some connections at VidCon which will [TS]

00:35:04   prove fruitful in a long time [TS]

00:35:07   you never know you know just with all [TS]

00:35:13   these things it's impossible to know [TS]

00:35:14   what the future holds and right now all [TS]

00:35:17   i can say is i was able to meet a bunch [TS]

00:35:21   of new people who I've never met before [TS]

00:35:23   that was kind of the purpose of doing [TS]

00:35:25   this and i'm very glad that I went here [TS]

00:35:29   in hell i'm still in like a week 2 of [TS]

00:35:32   recovery [TS]

00:35:33   ok let me take a moment to thank [TS]

00:35:36   Squarespace the simplest way for anyone [TS]

00:35:38   to create a beautiful landing page [TS]

00:35:40   website online store for continuing to [TS]

00:35:42   support cortex you can start building [TS]

00:35:44   your own website today at [TS]

00:35:46   squarespace.com and use the offer code [TS]

00:35:48   cortex at checkout to get ten percent of [TS]

00:35:50   your first purchase with easy-to-use [TS]

00:35:53   tools and templates Squarespace helps [TS]

00:35:54   you capture every detail of what drives [TS]

00:35:57   you because of its worth the effort is [TS]

00:35:59   worth sharing with the world there have [TS]

00:36:01   been so many times in my life for I've [TS]

00:36:04   needed a website for something i have a [TS]

00:36:06   new idea and your project i want to [TS]

00:36:07   start Squarespace is the first place [TS]

00:36:09   that I go because you have to worry [TS]

00:36:11   about anything to worry about hosting it [TS]

00:36:12   to worry about scaling you have to be [TS]

00:36:14   someone like me would then have to worry [TS]

00:36:16   about learning how to develop and colder [TS]

00:36:18   website i have no idea how to do any of [TS]

00:36:20   this stuff i don't know how to scale a [TS]

00:36:22   site i don't know how to CSS I don't [TS]

00:36:24   know any of this [TS]

00:36:25   Squarespace take care of it they have [TS]

00:36:27   professionally designed templates that [TS]

00:36:29   you can build an app with their [TS]

00:36:30   drag-and-drop tools they're [TS]

00:36:31   state-of-the-art technology to ensure [TS]

00:36:33   security and stability and this is why [TS]

00:36:35   their trusted by millions of people [TS]

00:36:37   around the world and those millions of [TS]

00:36:39   people they will have access to twenty [TS]

00:36:40   four seven support with live chat email [TS]

00:36:42   the ability to sell things for squares [TS]

00:36:44   basis commerce platform which allows [TS]

00:36:46   anyone to add a store to their site you [TS]

00:36:48   can be one of these people just go to [TS]

00:36:51   squarespace.com and you can sign up for [TS]

00:36:53   a free trial with no credit card [TS]

00:36:55   required to start building your own [TS]

00:36:57   website today that plants are just eight [TS]

00:36:59   dollars a month and you get a free [TS]

00:37:00   domain if you sign up for a year and [TS]

00:37:02   then when you do decide to sign up make [TS]

00:37:04   sure that you use the offer code cortex [TS]

00:37:06   at checkout [TS]

00:37:06   this will get you ten percent off your [TS]

00:37:08   first purchase and show your support for [TS]

00:37:10   this show [TS]

00:37:11   Thank You Squarespace to continuing to [TS]

00:37:12   support cortex and realize that would [TS]

00:37:15   you like to talk about our old friend [TS]

00:37:18   Evernote now I don't know if and [TS]

00:37:21   whenever know has ever come up on the [TS]

00:37:23   show but I know that we have both been [TS]

00:37:26   Evernote users for a long time [TS]

00:37:29   mm like I'm gonna hazard a guess to say [TS]

00:37:32   that seriously i think i may have had a [TS]

00:37:34   never ever no account for about 10 years [TS]

00:37:37   yeah and I know that sounds that sounds [TS]

00:37:38   like an incredibly long time but I think [TS]

00:37:42   I really have [TS]

00:37:43   it's getting if not then it's about [TS]

00:37:45   eight you know it's getting close to 10 [TS]

00:37:47   years if not already ten years because I [TS]

00:37:49   got in pretty much immediately for when [TS]

00:37:52   they launched em the reason that you're [TS]

00:37:54   bringing this up right now is because in [TS]

00:37:57   the document for quite awhile i have had [TS]

00:38:01   a little bullet point which was simply [TS]

00:38:03   called fuck Evernote has is an item to [TS]

00:38:09   talk about so many people that I know [TS]

00:38:12   that use Evernote have in some way that [TS]

00:38:18   feel like [TS]

00:38:19   yeah and that probably come to the fact [TS]

00:38:21   that it's a ten-year-old product [TS]

00:38:23   yeah i think there's as many as many [TS]

00:38:25   complicated things that are are wrapped [TS]

00:38:27   up here but I i have just heard [TS]

00:38:31   incidentally that Evernote has done some [TS]

00:38:33   pricing changes and so I feel like if we [TS]

00:38:36   were ever going to get to this bullet [TS]

00:38:37   point maybe this week is the week so the [TS]

00:38:42   first thing is I I would actually like [TS]

00:38:44   it if you could summarize for me in a [TS]

00:38:47   clear and concise way what changes have [TS]

00:38:50   just occurred Evernote because i cannot [TS]

00:38:52   figure out for the life of me what's [TS]

00:38:53   happening [TS]

00:38:54   I think you've lost the wrong person [TS]

00:38:55   icon work it out Eva basically they've [TS]

00:39:00   increased their pricing plans so they're [TS]

00:39:02   more expensive than they were before and [TS]

00:39:06   the free plan i think only works with [TS]

00:39:10   two devices now and if you got want to [TS]

00:39:13   use more than two devices you have to go [TS]

00:39:15   to now one of the two paid plan plus and [TS]

00:39:18   premium [TS]

00:39:19   man and I think it's confusing very [TS]

00:39:24   confusing and I know as a current event [TS]

00:39:27   a premium customer they have not [TS]

00:39:30   contacted me to tell me what's happening [TS]

00:39:32   to my account if I'm gonna be paying [TS]

00:39:34   more it seems like i probably will be [TS]

00:39:35   paying more and then they just have to [TS]

00:39:38   kind of accounts that have some [TS]

00:39:39   different features and different storage [TS]

00:39:42   space so it's so clear so simple Mike [TS]

00:39:46   yeah I try honestly this is clearly [TS]

00:39:48   suppose I can make it basically [TS]

00:39:49   evernotes more expensive and for free [TS]

00:39:52   accounts they're restricting the amount [TS]

00:39:53   of devices you can use that's like in a [TS]

00:39:55   nutshell but there's a lot of nuance to [TS]

00:39:58   it which is making the whole thing a bit [TS]

00:39:59   of a nightmare [TS]

00:40:00   yeah it's a it's a bit confusing even [TS]

00:40:03   just just reading through the the [TS]

00:40:05   description of what they've changed on [TS]

00:40:07   the website it's like oh okay you've [TS]

00:40:09   raised the prices but with only one of [TS]

00:40:12   the plans can you search inside of [TS]

00:40:14   documents like isn't this the whole [TS]

00:40:15   thing of which services like okay but [TS]

00:40:18   right now I need to have the most [TS]

00:40:19   expensive one to do that it just seems [TS]

00:40:21   like I've seen a lot of people who are [TS]

00:40:22   super angry at Evernote about this [TS]

00:40:26   yeah i think the OCR is only on premium [TS]

00:40:29   now but like the expensive one [TS]

00:40:32   and if you want to download notes you [TS]

00:40:34   have to have one of the paid ones is all [TS]

00:40:37   it basically they had a feature set that [TS]

00:40:40   was available to everyone and then they [TS]

00:40:42   split it and then they split it again [TS]

00:40:44   and then devices all right so then your [TS]

00:40:48   product and sometimes it feels ten years [TS]

00:40:56   old now this pricing thing is [TS]

00:41:00   interesting because i think many people [TS]

00:41:04   have had a feeling from the outside of [TS]

00:41:07   what's going on Evernote the company has [TS]

00:41:12   gone through some weird announcements [TS]

00:41:16   over the past year if i remember [TS]

00:41:17   correctly like what the CEO changed then [TS]

00:41:20   they laid off a bunch of people I feel [TS]

00:41:22   like I've been just been hearing odd [TS]

00:41:24   news about Evernote for a year yeah yeah [TS]

00:41:27   which makes you feel not super secure [TS]

00:41:29   about [TS]

00:41:30   out a product that is supposed to be [TS]

00:41:33   keeping your off-board brain safe and [TS]

00:41:38   synchronized and and searchable [TS]

00:41:40   everywhere and it doesn't it doesn't [TS]

00:41:42   make you feel good and it's also a [TS]

00:41:44   company that seems to have been very [TS]

00:41:47   very slow at making any kind of [TS]

00:41:51   significant changes that that people [TS]

00:41:53   want actually when we were in San [TS]

00:41:57   Francisco we ended up driving past the [TS]

00:41:59   headquarters of Evernote at 1.44 we were [TS]

00:42:02   looking at the building and also get the [TS]

00:42:03   most needed work chat [TS]

00:42:05   yeah i believe i believe someone might [TS]

00:42:08   have suggested to write do you know [TS]

00:42:11   about work chat on a brick and really [TS]

00:42:14   know which is kind of the feeling about [TS]

00:42:18   how intrusive Evernote is about letting [TS]

00:42:20   you know if they have worked at how many [TS]

00:42:22   times do I have to close this [TS]

00:42:23   notification why don't you just throw a [TS]

00:42:25   brick through my window at this point [TS]

00:42:27   but when we drove past it as with other [TS]

00:42:31   companies but particularly with Evernote [TS]

00:42:33   I looked at this huge building and again [TS]

00:42:36   had the feeling of what to all of the [TS]

00:42:39   people in there do i just i have no [TS]

00:42:43   ability to understand how a building [TS]

00:42:47   full of people equals the product that [TS]

00:42:51   is Evernote and i will now tell you the [TS]

00:42:54   reason why I originally had that bullet [TS]

00:42:57   point listed as it is in the show notes [TS]

00:42:59   because ok here is the selling point of [TS]

00:43:03   Evernote save everything in this digital [TS]

00:43:06   brain write this this little app can [TS]

00:43:09   just serve as your memory [TS]

00:43:12   this is what all of their branding and [TS]

00:43:13   marketing is about the elephant never [TS]

00:43:15   forgets right there icon is an elephant [TS]

00:43:17   elephants never forget right this is [TS]

00:43:20   this is fantastic okay great so i've [TS]

00:43:22   been using everyone for a very very long [TS]

00:43:24   time as you have and you saw a little [TS]

00:43:30   while ago for one of our book club [TS]

00:43:32   episodes that i have a system that I use [TS]

00:43:36   with Evernote to make a record of all of [TS]

00:43:40   the books that i read so here's a little [TS]

00:43:43   work [TS]

00:43:44   no that I've had for quite a while i [TS]

00:43:46   read a book now I'm reading it on ibooks [TS]

00:43:49   formerly on kindle but it's the same [TS]

00:43:50   idea and so I make a bunch of highlights [TS]

00:43:53   as i go through the book and sometimes I [TS]

00:43:55   type little notes to myself it's you [TS]

00:43:57   know active reading and just pulling out [TS]

00:44:00   the parts that i think are important or [TS]

00:44:01   that are interesting at the end of [TS]

00:44:04   reading any particular book i take [TS]

00:44:07   screenshots of all of the pages with [TS]

00:44:10   highlights or notes on them and then I [TS]

00:44:13   would make in Evernote a folder with the [TS]

00:44:15   name of the book and I would dump all of [TS]

00:44:17   those pages in there sometimes I would [TS]

00:44:19   go through again and make like further [TS]

00:44:20   annotations to future me and this is an [TS]

00:44:23   extremely useful thing to do because [TS]

00:44:26   like when we do the book shows for [TS]

00:44:28   example i'm able to just pull up out [TS]

00:44:31   here is all the pages from the book so [TS]

00:44:32   i'm looking at only the relevant [TS]

00:44:33   sections and the notes to myself and [TS]

00:44:36   also super valuable is because Evernote [TS]

00:44:39   does all this optical character [TS]

00:44:41   recognition i can search through all of [TS]

00:44:44   that stuff and what's really useful is [TS]

00:44:47   that you can't possibly remember [TS]

00:44:49   everything from ever every book that [TS]

00:44:51   you've ever read but if i'm doing a [TS]

00:44:54   video on some topic i can search for a [TS]

00:44:57   couple of keywords related to that video [TS]

00:44:59   topic and sometimes I would find a page [TS]

00:45:02   of text from a book i read a while ago [TS]

00:45:04   that had something interesting that was [TS]

00:45:05   related to the topic that I'm working on [TS]

00:45:07   now so it's it's this it has been this [TS]

00:45:10   way for me for years to keep books that [TS]

00:45:15   i have read in active memory and this is [TS]

00:45:19   along with all of the other various [TS]

00:45:20   notes and things that I'm just [TS]

00:45:22   collecting regularly for videos and [TS]

00:45:25   stuff so this is the process that I've [TS]

00:45:28   been doing for quite a while and I [TS]

00:45:29   really really deep into Evernote with [TS]

00:45:31   this as you can quite imagine now about [TS]

00:45:35   two months ago which is when i first put [TS]

00:45:37   this bullet point in the document i went [TS]

00:45:41   to go follow my little process as normal [TS]

00:45:43   and i had finished a book I taken all [TS]

00:45:46   the screenshots I thought okay great [TS]

00:45:47   here we go time to make a new notebook [TS]

00:45:49   and a time to save these pages into it [TS]

00:45:52   and I press the press the new notebook [TS]

00:45:54   button haha that's funny [TS]

00:45:57   nothing happens nothing happens when I [TS]

00:45:59   press the new notebook button so i tried [TS]

00:46:01   on a different device press the new [TS]

00:46:03   notebook button nothing happens huh [TS]

00:46:05   how interesting i opened up alternate [TS]

00:46:07   which is that lovely additional [TS]

00:46:09   interface to evernote and the new [TS]

00:46:11   notebook button is grayed out I can't [TS]

00:46:13   even click it [TS]

00:46:14   well gee that's strange and then it [TS]

00:46:17   dawns on me i do a google search for [TS]

00:46:20   Evernote notebook limit and sure enough [TS]

00:46:26   well sure enough they only allow you to [TS]

00:46:30   have 250 notebooks why that is what I [TS]

00:46:37   want to know why why Evernote isn't this [TS]

00:46:41   your whole business is to remember all [TS]

00:46:45   the things why why on earth would you [TS]

00:46:49   ever limit the number of notebooks that [TS]

00:46:52   a person can have [TS]

00:46:53   why would you do this you have a whole [TS]

00:46:56   building filled with people you have [TS]

00:46:58   servers you have monthly revenue [TS]

00:47:01   why on earth would you ever limit this [TS]

00:47:05   this is what your business does this is [TS]

00:47:08   your selling point but no somewhere in [TS]

00:47:11   summer Rae some dude was like that [TS]

00:47:14   250 that's enough hard-coded limit right [TS]

00:47:17   and it's not even like 256 or something [TS]

00:47:20   so like oh maybe i'm running into a bug [TS]

00:47:22   that nobody just considered but they ran [TS]

00:47:24   out of space in there integer now [TS]

00:47:25   someone just decided there's 250 and [TS]

00:47:28   even better [TS]

00:47:29   okay even better Mike I'm googling [TS]

00:47:31   around this like I cannot believe this [TS]

00:47:33   but then I find out there is a solution [TS]

00:47:35   don't worry don't worry you can archive [TS]

00:47:38   some of your notebooks to get back space [TS]

00:47:42   so I know you can take a whole section [TS]

00:47:44   you can archive a bunch of notebooks [TS]

00:47:45   oh that sounds great what happens when I [TS]

00:47:47   archive a notebook [TS]

00:47:49   oh don't worry it's still there it just [TS]

00:47:52   won't show up in search and it won't [TS]

00:47:53   sync on anything [TS]

00:47:54   great thanks so how do you get it you [TS]

00:47:56   can manually go to like an archive [TS]

00:47:59   section to manually go look through [TS]

00:48:01   everything but i will remind you the [TS]

00:48:03   whole purpose of the way you store [TS]

00:48:05   things in Evernote is to be able to [TS]

00:48:07   search for things not to be able to [TS]

00:48:10   cattle [TS]

00:48:10   rise everything an absolutely perfect [TS]

00:48:12   way and it's just like you know i I've [TS]

00:48:17   been feeling of been feeling vaguely [TS]

00:48:19   irritated with a whole bunch of minor [TS]

00:48:22   things in Evernote for a very long time [TS]

00:48:24   not least of which is how awful their [TS]

00:48:27   app is to use on ipad but I've been [TS]

00:48:29   living with it forever because of the ok [TS]

00:48:31   well there's there's just this debt that [TS]

00:48:33   I have but like Evernote is one of the [TS]

00:48:35   only remaining programs where I will [TS]

00:48:37   prefer to use it on the computer simply [TS]

00:48:38   because using on the ipad is so awful [TS]

00:48:41   but again it's like it's a building full [TS]

00:48:43   of people like why haven't you been able [TS]

00:48:45   to update your ipad app to be usable on [TS]

00:48:48   I don't know an ipad for anyone who's [TS]

00:48:50   ever used this for 10 seconds like has [TS]

00:48:52   anybody ever used this program on an [TS]

00:48:54   iPad Evernote what are you doing with [TS]

00:48:56   those hundreds of people or whatever [TS]

00:48:57   it's it's so infuriating but I've been [TS]

00:48:59   living with all of this stuff for a [TS]

00:49:01   while just kind of like girl I whatever [TS]

00:49:03   Evernote but you got me because I have [TS]

00:49:05   literally over 3,000 individual notes in [TS]

00:49:08   Evernote and there really is nobody else [TS]

00:49:10   to tell us what they do in the way that [TS]

00:49:11   won't do it [TS]

00:49:13   yeah I've been living with it for ages [TS]

00:49:15   like you have a hard-coded limits that i [TS]

00:49:18   have just run up against and there is [TS]

00:49:21   nothing that I can do thanks a lot into [TS]

00:49:23   it feels like it's just a gigantic [TS]

00:49:25   middle finger for being a user over a [TS]

00:49:28   long period of time like that that's [TS]

00:49:30   that's just what it feels like a guess [TS]

00:49:32   what when your when your technical debt [TS]

00:49:35   is is too high [TS]

00:49:36   like when you're just when you're into [TS]

00:49:38   this far far too much and there's no [TS]

00:49:40   turning back [TS]

00:49:41   we're going to show you that we have an [TS]

00:49:42   arbitrary limit for no good reason look [TS]

00:49:44   great thanks thanks Evernote really [TS]

00:49:46   appreciate that one so frustrating [TS]

00:49:49   so what are you gonna do I don't know [TS]

00:49:52   what I'm gonna do [TS]

00:49:53   I mean if the answer is for the past [TS]

00:49:55   couple months I've been just kind of [TS]

00:49:57   like not saving notes because i don't i [TS]

00:50:01   don't have a good solution right but [TS]

00:50:02   this is not a good solution either I i [TS]

00:50:05   have i have tried to look into some of [TS]

00:50:08   the alternatives and the only one which [TS]

00:50:11   even comes remotely close to being able [TS]

00:50:13   to replace Evernote is Microsoft's one [TS]

00:50:16   note that this is the only program out [TS]

00:50:18   there that is sort of close to being [TS]

00:50:21   able to do whatever no does right yeah [TS]

00:50:23   because they do OCR [TS]

00:50:24   aldo name that was my main things like [TS]

00:50:27   do they do OCR because the OCR is a [TS]

00:50:30   totally killer feature OCR is the [TS]

00:50:34   optical character recognition so i can [TS]

00:50:36   save an image like for example a [TS]

00:50:38   screenshot of a bunch of texts from a [TS]

00:50:40   book or i can I have tons of like [TS]

00:50:42   infographics and just a huge number of [TS]

00:50:45   images that i can save and when I search [TS]

00:50:48   for stuff [TS]

00:50:49   OCR the optical character recognition [TS]

00:50:50   will recognize those actual words and i [TS]

00:50:53   have to say evernotes OCR is very [TS]

00:50:56   impressive again is pulled up stuff in [TS]

00:50:58   the back of photos that I would never [TS]

00:50:59   notice would like there's a little thing [TS]

00:51:01   written on a sign or something like it's [TS]

00:51:02   it's very very good [TS]

00:51:04   it's also why okay great i can rely on [TS]

00:51:07   this and so for a while I don't think [TS]

00:51:10   microsoft onenote had a majority are but [TS]

00:51:13   they have added since I checked last but [TS]

00:51:17   the problem with OneNote is their whole [TS]

00:51:21   structure right there whole layout is is [TS]

00:51:27   not dislike their hierarchy is basically [TS]

00:51:30   you can have a notebook and that [TS]

00:51:32   notebook can have a bunch of tabs in it [TS]

00:51:34   as opposed to evernote which allows you [TS]

00:51:37   to have like an arbitrary number of [TS]

00:51:40   hierarchical notebooks [TS]

00:51:41   so you can have a notebook that contains [TS]

00:51:43   a hundred notebooks and so for example [TS]

00:51:45   like i have a notebook which is just [TS]

00:51:47   called book notes and within that are a [TS]

00:51:50   bunch of other notebooks each for each [TS]

00:51:52   individual book but the OneNote metaphor [TS]

00:51:56   is much more like you you have a [TS]

00:51:57   notebook and that notebook has a bunch [TS]

00:51:59   of tabs on the top kind of like you're [TS]

00:52:02   going to have browser windows and let me [TS]

00:52:04   tell you tabs on the top does not scale [TS]

00:52:07   when you want to have a hundred of them [TS]

00:52:09   i clearly in one notes design conception [TS]

00:52:14   they were kind of thinking that no [TS]

00:52:16   notebook will ever have more than a you [TS]

00:52:18   know maybe half a dozen tabs in it it's [TS]

00:52:21   just not designed to work like that so [TS]

00:52:25   OneNote is just stay [TS]

00:52:27   structurally unacceptable plus their [TS]

00:52:30   icon is so Microsoft and purple it's [TS]

00:52:33   really here sorry 10 teams it's really [TS]

00:52:36   ugly had that they have an interesting [TS]

00:52:38   design language do you think some of the [TS]

00:52:40   structural stuff is just because you're [TS]

00:52:42   too baked in your mind to the way of [TS]

00:52:45   networks i have been trying to think [TS]

00:52:48   about how to make this work and I am i [TS]

00:52:54   am not in any way devoted to the way [TS]

00:52:57   Evernote lays stuff out [TS]

00:52:59   it is simply a question of how can I [TS]

00:53:02   have a way that sorts of things like I [TS]

00:53:04   want to corral all of my book notes into [TS]

00:53:08   a separate section but also be able to [TS]

00:53:10   access any of them at any point in time [TS]

00:53:12   and I want to be able to group all of my [TS]

00:53:15   projects in process together like in one [TS]

00:53:18   little place and I want to group [TS]

00:53:19   together all of my future projects [TS]

00:53:22   together all in one place I when you [TS]

00:53:25   have a large number of notebooks and I [TS]

00:53:27   don't see any way around that you need [TS]

00:53:30   some structure that is on top of like [TS]

00:53:33   the notebook level you need to be able [TS]

00:53:34   to group them together in a reasonable [TS]

00:53:36   way but the thing is i I just I i think [TS]

00:53:41   what is going to have to happen is that [TS]

00:53:43   I'm just going to have to move over to [TS]

00:53:45   OneNote and just deal with it as best I [TS]

00:53:48   can because my current situation of [TS]

00:53:51   presenting Evernote but still being a [TS]

00:53:54   premium user is the worst of everything [TS]

00:53:56   it's like shaking my fist at Evernote [TS]

00:53:59   not using it but i'm still paying for [TS]

00:54:02   their service and like now they've done [TS]

00:54:04   a price increase so potentially paying [TS]

00:54:06   more like well this is dumb like one of [TS]

00:54:09   these things has to give and self I [TS]

00:54:12   actual plan is Microsoft's does have a [TS]

00:54:18   little program that will let you import [TS]

00:54:20   an Evernote database but of course it [TS]

00:54:23   only runs on a windows computer they [TS]

00:54:25   didn't make one for Mac thanks guys [TS]

00:54:27   so I was thinking well i guess i don't [TS]

00:54:30   know how i'm going to use this and then [TS]

00:54:32   I remembered oh my father has a windows [TS]

00:54:34   computer so i think when I visit my [TS]

00:54:36   family for part two this summer just [TS]

00:54:39   can't go on to my dads [TS]

00:54:41   computer install my Evernote let it [TS]

00:54:43   download all 3,000 notes install one [TS]

00:54:46   note and then my dad's windows laptop [TS]

00:54:48   run this program which should be able to [TS]

00:54:52   import everything from Evernote in 21 [TS]

00:54:54   notes like I think that's I think that's [TS]

00:54:55   just what's going to have to happen [TS]

00:54:57   because i can't i can't think of any [TS]

00:55:00   other tool or or solution for this so [TS]

00:55:05   this doesn't necessarily help with this [TS]

00:55:07   problem but it is just worth noting [TS]

00:55:09   apples notes app on the Mac will import [TS]

00:55:14   Evernote database [TS]

00:55:16   well it interesting out I'm too scared [TS]

00:55:19   to do this because I have literally no [TS]

00:55:22   idea what will happen but yeah let's do [TS]

00:55:25   it [TS]

00:55:26   it's also interesting because notes has [TS]

00:55:29   a flat hierarchy of folders it doesn't [TS]

00:55:31   like folders and folders just like what [TS]

00:55:33   are you gonna do with the notebooks and [TS]

00:55:35   notebooks importer it's interesting [TS]

00:55:37   interesting thing to find out exactly [TS]

00:55:39   what I don't want any part of it but it [TS]

00:55:42   will do it i'm feeling like i want to [TS]

00:55:43   move away from Evernote now as well this [TS]

00:55:45   isn't like a wake up for me or it's like [TS]

00:55:47   I use it for just one thing and I don't [TS]

00:55:49   even really need to do that anymore [TS]

00:55:51   basically i use Evernote now for travel [TS]

00:55:53   stuff so when i get the emails of [TS]

00:55:57   confirmation things I send them to [TS]

00:55:58   evernote and I know that there are a [TS]

00:56:00   bunch of apps that are specifically [TS]

00:56:02   built for this purpose stuff like trip [TS]

00:56:04   and things like that but ever know it's [TS]

00:56:06   just been always what I use because it's [TS]

00:56:07   so simple and i know i can have [TS]

00:56:09   everything downloaded and it's there and [TS]

00:56:10   i've used in forever [TS]

00:56:12   who but for my next upcoming trip to [TS]

00:56:14   memphis I'm trying out something [TS]

00:56:16   different and hoping that it will be the [TS]

00:56:20   a better solution for me I'm basically [TS]

00:56:23   just using Apple notes so i have been [TS]

00:56:26   previously more recently writing out [TS]

00:56:29   just a simple text note with some [TS]

00:56:31   information in it like basic flight [TS]

00:56:33   information and confirmation numbers [TS]

00:56:34   hotel addresses like that so that's just [TS]

00:56:36   there when I need it but what I have [TS]

00:56:40   realized i can do from Stephen on [TS]

00:56:43   connected recommend this to me i [TS]

00:56:44   completely forgot you could do this is [TS]

00:56:47   save pdfs into apple notes so now when i [TS]

00:56:51   get confirmation emails of trips and [TS]

00:56:54   hotel bookings [TS]

00:56:55   stuff like that i use my email [TS]

00:56:56   application a man which can take an [TS]

00:56:58   email and turn it into a PDF and then i [TS]

00:57:00   just opened up in apple notes and append [TS]

00:57:03   it to the travel note that i started so [TS]

00:57:05   now i have a note which has all of the [TS]

00:57:07   basic text information and a bunch of [TS]

00:57:08   pdfs down at the bottom and I think this [TS]

00:57:11   is probably going to be the solution for [TS]

00:57:13   me going forward i'm going to try out [TS]

00:57:15   one trip if it works flawlessly is like [TS]

00:57:17   pretty much expected well I'm i think i [TS]

00:57:20   might just download my evident [TS]

00:57:22   information and then kind of cancel my [TS]

00:57:24   premium plan [TS]

00:57:26   whoo yeah that sounds like that's [TS]

00:57:27   probably the reasonable thing for you to [TS]

00:57:30   do for what i'm using it for I think it [TS]

00:57:32   makes the most sense because it is [TS]

00:57:33   literally all i do have ever know now is [TS]

00:57:35   just email and travel stuff and there [TS]

00:57:37   are a bunch of specifically purpose [TS]

00:57:39   tools that do this better i've been told [TS]

00:57:41   but also i just want to use notes [TS]

00:57:43   because notes has kind of become my [TS]

00:57:46   brain now who that is now my off-board [TS]

00:57:50   brain not not even know anymore [TS]

00:57:52   yeah and I wonder how many people are in [TS]

00:57:57   a similar situation to you where the [TS]

00:58:00   price raised in Evernote reminds them [TS]

00:58:03   that they basically don't use Evernote [TS]

00:58:05   anymore and it is time to cancel i think [TS]

00:58:07   i'm paying something like five or six [TS]

00:58:09   pounds a month for Evernote and it's not [TS]

00:58:12   a lot of money but i guess it is if i'm [TS]

00:58:15   not using it [TS]

00:58:15   yeah it does you might as well cancel it [TS]

00:58:17   if you're essentially using it to just [TS]

00:58:19   keep track of a single thing that like [TS]

00:58:21   at this point the only reason I'm paying [TS]

00:58:23   for is because they're limiting the free [TS]

00:58:25   account to two devices because i don't [TS]

00:58:27   use any of the other features right so [TS]

00:58:30   that's just when a company does [TS]

00:58:31   something like raise the prices i think [TS]

00:58:35   that presumption is they need more money [TS]

00:58:38   think that's probably why they're [TS]

00:58:40   raising the prices and and that to me [TS]

00:58:43   just it seems to be adding to the [TS]

00:58:47   Evernote tale of woe with shrinking the [TS]

00:58:51   company and then also still needing more [TS]

00:58:55   money and now with with the somewhat [TS]

00:59:00   confusing upgrade structure i wouldn't [TS]

00:59:03   be surprised if Evernote finds itself [TS]

00:59:06   with [TS]

00:59:07   fewer paying customers and fewer revenue [TS]

00:59:10   after this price change like I just keep [TS]

00:59:12   wondering what's going to happen on iOS [TS]

00:59:15   because it's something like I haven't [TS]

00:59:17   heard anything about these this price [TS]

00:59:18   change but sooner or later something's [TS]

00:59:21   going to have to happen and i'd be [TS]

00:59:23   willing to bet that with all of the [TS]

00:59:25   improvements that Apple has made two [TS]

00:59:27   notes which you know everybody seems to [TS]

00:59:29   love and even though i use notes in a [TS]

00:59:32   very minimal way I can tell it it's way [TS]

00:59:34   better [TS]

00:59:35   like I have a hard time imagining who is [TS]

00:59:39   the Evernote user that couldn't get away [TS]

00:59:42   with using notes I think that's very [TS]

00:59:44   very few people and when facing the [TS]

00:59:48   option of do you want to pay more for [TS]

00:59:51   Evernote in this complicated structure [TS]

00:59:54   or do you just want to use notes for [TS]

00:59:57   free [TS]

00:59:58   I think it [TS]

00:59:58   I think it [TS]

01:00:00   this point this year notes is is good [TS]

01:00:03   enough for almost everybody who probably [TS]

01:00:06   use Evernote yep and and so that that to [TS]

01:00:09   me adds to this feeling of this is an [TS]

01:00:12   elephant standing on a sinking ship from [TS]

01:00:15   which all of the rats are fleeing that's [TS]

01:00:17   Evernote release it feels like I'm sorry [TS]

01:00:19   if you listen to this any work at [TS]

01:00:20   Evernote but that's that's the [TS]

01:00:22   impression from the outside like one of [TS]

01:00:24   the great things about Evernote is the [TS]

01:00:25   fact that it's everywhere like that is [TS]

01:00:28   one of its great things is on all [TS]

01:00:29   devices on all platforms so you know [TS]

01:00:31   you're going to get it where you are [TS]

01:00:33   that is like one of its best features [TS]

01:00:35   who so like you know if i have opened my [TS]

01:00:37   android phone ever know is there and my [TS]

01:00:39   notes of there right there are very few [TS]

01:00:41   applications that are in as many places [TS]

01:00:44   as evident but in the same way and I [TS]

01:00:46   think that's been part of their undoing [TS]

01:00:48   because they've wasted time and effort [TS]

01:00:49   on making things like a pebble app that [TS]

01:00:52   doesn't seem like a good use of [TS]

01:00:54   developer time no I mean and look [TS]

01:00:56   fundamentally one of the things that is [TS]

01:00:58   really upsetting about this is this to [TS]

01:00:59   device limit is not friendly to those [TS]

01:01:01   who have come around to live the malt [TS]

01:01:03   ipad lifestyle right yeah sure that is [TS]

01:01:08   that's the real sticking point for the [TS]

01:01:10   cortex audience there's no way that mean [TS]

01:01:13   you could use the free account because [TS]

01:01:15   the mall typepad lifestyle dictates at [TS]

01:01:18   least to iOS devices unacceptable [TS]

01:01:21   well these two if you don't iOS device [TS]

01:01:23   is going to be 3 because everybody needs [TS]

01:01:24   a phone exactly you have two ipads [TS]

01:01:26   actually now so for all the Republic or [TS]

01:01:31   Texians who are living the righteous [TS]

01:01:34   multi ipad lifestyle Evernote free [TS]

01:01:37   account is totally unacceptable and i'll [TS]

01:01:39   look there's notes just sitting there [TS]

01:01:42   getting better every year waiting for [TS]

01:01:45   you to check it out [TS]

01:01:46   I think I think that's going to happen [TS]

01:01:49   so I mean my feeling is boy I sure would [TS]

01:01:52   love it if Evernote raise the 250 limits [TS]

01:01:56   plot that the feeling is really one of [TS]

01:02:00   slow development plus weirdness about [TS]

01:02:04   the company plus increasing prices that [TS]

01:02:08   I suspect won't actually help all of [TS]

01:02:10   this equals [TS]

01:02:12   it's time to go like it's it's time to [TS]

01:02:14   find another way to do this hashtag [TS]

01:02:19   multi-path lifestyle they upgrade got to [TS]

01:02:24   get that in there today we are also [TS]

01:02:28   brought to you by pingdom the company [TS]

01:02:30   that is focused on making the web faster [TS]

01:02:33   and more reliable for everyone who has a [TS]

01:02:35   site you can start monitoring your own [TS]

01:02:37   websites and services today at ping [TS]

01:02:39   dot-com / cortex you'll get a 14-day [TS]

01:02:42   free trial when you enter the offer code [TS]

01:02:44   cortex check out you'll also get twenty [TS]

01:02:46   percent of your first invoice kingdom [TS]

01:02:48   offer something simple which is the [TS]

01:02:51   ability to know first [TS]

01:02:53   when something on your website isn't [TS]

01:02:55   working anymore it is as simple as that [TS]

01:02:57   stuff breaks on the internet all the [TS]

01:02:59   time pingdom detects around 13 million [TS]

01:03:02   outages every single month as one of [TS]

01:03:04   400,000 outages every day regardless of [TS]

01:03:08   whether you have a small website you're [TS]

01:03:09   managing a complete infrastructure it is [TS]

01:03:12   so important to monitor the availability [TS]

01:03:14   and performance of your site and these [TS]

01:03:15   days websites are becoming so much more [TS]

01:03:18   sophisticated that they have all of [TS]

01:03:20   these little dependencies in them like [TS]

01:03:21   contact forms checkouts ecommerce [TS]

01:03:23   functionality logins search any of these [TS]

01:03:26   parts go down on your site and it can be [TS]

01:03:28   terrible for the people that are [TS]

01:03:29   visiting your website how to Kingdom do [TS]

01:03:33   this they have more than 70 global test [TS]

01:03:36   servers that emulate visits to your site [TS]

01:03:38   checking its availability as often as [TS]

01:03:39   every minute if your kingdom user [TS]

01:03:42   monitoring the availability of your [TS]

01:03:44   server database or website will be a [TS]

01:03:47   breeze or pink needs is the URL you wish [TS]

01:03:49   to monitor and they will take care of [TS]

01:03:51   the rest when ping detects an outage [TS]

01:03:53   you'll be immediately alerted so you can [TS]

01:03:54   fix it before affects you [TS]

01:03:57   you don't want to be caught out when [TS]

01:03:58   someone accesses your site and tweets [TS]

01:03:59   that you to tell you you need pingdom [TS]

01:04:01   check it out today and you'll be the [TS]

01:04:03   first to know when your site is down go [TS]

01:04:04   to kingdom com / cortex for a 14-day [TS]

01:04:07   free trial and don't forget to use the [TS]

01:04:08   code cortex check out you get twenty [TS]

01:04:10   percent of and you will also be [TS]

01:04:13   supporting this show thank you so much [TS]

01:04:15   to paint them for their support of [TS]

01:04:16   cortex and really am great i would like [TS]

01:04:19   to do one ass cortex today logo but it's [TS]

01:04:23   so it's a long one [TS]

01:04:25   it's a good one mmm say you'll have to [TS]

01:04:29   bear with me for a moment because i [TS]

01:04:31   think it is important to paint the [TS]

01:04:32   picture of guide ghost on the reddit ok [TS]

01:04:35   alright alright you give you a little [TS]

01:04:37   leeway here okay but this better be good [TS]

01:04:40   ok so it's from guide ghost and they say [TS]

01:04:42   I've been working on my side project for [TS]

01:04:44   long enough that I feel that my primary [TS]

01:04:46   job is just taking too much of my time i [TS]

01:04:49   often wake up put in a solid pomodoro or [TS]

01:04:52   two of progress on my side project but [TS]

01:04:54   then just as I'm feeling great and I'm [TS]

01:04:56   feeling like a bride on track with it i [TS]

01:04:58   have to completely derail my progress [TS]

01:05:00   and go to work my side project is not [TS]

01:05:03   yet making money and I feel like it's [TS]

01:05:05   gonna be hard to get it to that point [TS]

01:05:07   without a stretch of a few months of fun [TS]

01:05:09   interrupted full-time work i liked out [TS]

01:05:12   in the career that I chose in the given [TS]

01:05:14   city that I work in that there's a ton [TS]

01:05:16   of demand for my services are all times [TS]

01:05:18   so I can kind of do my own teaching [TS]

01:05:20   holiday schedule thing work for a [TS]

01:05:22   stretch quit for a few months then find [TS]

01:05:24   a new job [TS]

01:05:25   the obvious consequence is having a [TS]

01:05:27   bunch of one year students on your [TS]

01:05:29   resume which could make future employers [TS]

01:05:31   weary and it's difficult to explain to [TS]

01:05:33   somebody why you've done this I guess I [TS]

01:05:35   might as well continue burning my career [TS]

01:05:37   to the ground anyway right it's useless [TS]

01:05:39   when I want to make it as a [TS]

01:05:40   self-employed person later right [TS]

01:05:42   the TLDR of this is how many times can [TS]

01:05:46   one quit their job and get a new one [TS]

01:05:48   before rendering themselves outwardly [TS]

01:05:51   unemployable this is super tricky [TS]

01:05:55   hmm so when I left my employment I had [TS]

01:06:00   no solid backup plan [TS]

01:06:02   I was not allowing myself to think this [TS]

01:06:07   isn't going to work [TS]

01:06:08   you're going to need to go get a job [TS]

01:06:10   where you're going to need to go back [TS]

01:06:11   right [TS]

01:06:12   like when I left it was just like that's [TS]

01:06:13   it I never left with the idea of like [TS]

01:06:16   put a few months and get a new job and [TS]

01:06:19   before that as well people knew what I [TS]

01:06:21   did outside but I got on my own job like [TS]

01:06:25   it wasn't issues like people knew what I [TS]

01:06:27   was doing on the side right when I work [TS]

01:06:29   for the bank they were just like you do [TS]

01:06:31   that thing but i was already there so it [TS]

01:06:32   wasn't a problem [TS]

01:06:33   I just make sure I just got on my job [TS]

01:06:35   right there was an issue [TS]

01:06:37   but I can imagine this scenario being [TS]

01:06:40   tough on an employer coming in and [TS]

01:06:41   saying like I do this thing on the [TS]

01:06:44   outside [TS]

01:06:45   I've been spending some time away doing [TS]

01:06:47   this thing like how would you know if [TS]

01:06:49   this person is gonna bother sticking [TS]

01:06:50   around especially if like us or CV that [TS]

01:06:53   was like one year Michael four-month gap [TS]

01:06:55   then another place for a year and a four [TS]

01:06:57   month gap you would look at it and [TS]

01:06:58   probably think this person is going to [TS]

01:07:01   leave me after a year like I know if I'm [TS]

01:07:05   just employing someone saw that cv i [TS]

01:07:07   think that's how I would look at it and [TS]

01:07:09   and then once you're inside a company is [TS]

01:07:11   fine because long as you're doing your [TS]

01:07:12   work [TS]

01:07:13   most companies don't care what you do on [TS]

01:07:14   the side but trying to get employed by [TS]

01:07:16   someone with a cv like that I think [TS]

01:07:18   might be a bit difficult [TS]

01:07:19   hmm that is is very tricky [TS]

01:07:27   it's also it's also interesting because [TS]

01:07:29   so i basically did this when I was [TS]

01:07:35   trying to do anything other than [TS]

01:07:39   teaching on the side so I mean I've you [TS]

01:07:46   know I worked as a teacher depending on [TS]

01:07:47   how you want to count like six or seven [TS]

01:07:48   years but I had a year gap that [TS]

01:07:53   essentially in the in the middle ish and [TS]

01:07:56   is part of that so I worked at that one [TS]

01:07:58   of my first schools for about four years [TS]

01:08:01   and then I I quit teaching for a year [TS]

01:08:05   and then came back to teaching at the [TS]

01:08:09   end of that year i think that's a little [TS]

01:08:11   more palatable right like you left to do [TS]

01:08:14   a thing the thing didn't work out [TS]

01:08:16   I'm now coming back like that one time [TS]

01:08:18   that you do that I think that's ok but [TS]

01:08:21   at a strain of that I think is difficult [TS]

01:08:25   yeah that's that's the that's the [TS]

01:08:27   problem and also just to be clear I was [TS]

01:08:30   not forthcoming about the fact that i [TS]

01:08:34   had left to go do a thing for its real [TS]

01:08:37   vague whatever doing for that year in [TS]

01:08:40   between teaching why that feels like a [TS]

01:08:43   bad idea [TS]

01:08:44   well I mean this is this to go to the [TS]

01:08:45   the questioners thing here this goes to [TS]

01:08:49   the point of [TS]

01:08:50   the riskiness of doing something like [TS]

01:08:52   this is directly proportional to just [TS]

01:08:54   how in demand is your job right just how [TS]

01:08:59   in demand is your particular set of [TS]

01:09:01   skills and my view on this [TS]

01:09:04   I mean I know we sort of took different [TS]

01:09:06   tax but no one at any of the schools [TS]

01:09:09   that i worked at ever had any idea that [TS]

01:09:12   I was doing anything on the side ever [TS]

01:09:13   and and that was very intentional i [TS]

01:09:17   thought no good can come of this and I [TS]

01:09:19   just kept my mouth shut about everything [TS]

01:09:22   that I was doing on the side was like [TS]

01:09:23   what are you doing this weekend oh [TS]

01:09:24   nothing i guess i said i think i said is [TS]

01:09:26   no showing the past my mouth would have [TS]

01:09:28   been shot but I got the job in marketing [TS]

01:09:30   because I proved that I was able to do [TS]

01:09:32   something creative like I had no choice [TS]

01:09:34   you you were leveraging it was a [TS]

01:09:36   different situation right you were you [TS]

01:09:38   were leveraging it to advance your [TS]

01:09:40   career that's different whereas I think [TS]

01:09:44   to most employers excited projects [TS]

01:09:47   unless like in your situation they can [TS]

01:09:50   see how it would directly benefit them [TS]

01:09:53   they're not gonna want to hear not this [TS]

01:09:55   because it is splitting up you're [TS]

01:09:57   working brain [TS]

01:09:58   yeah it's letting up you're working [TS]

01:10:00   brain they're not going to like it and [TS]

01:10:02   like guide ghost is doing as well if [TS]

01:10:05   you're if you're really serious about it [TS]

01:10:07   the only way to make real progress is to [TS]

01:10:10   do it before you go to your actual just [TS]

01:10:12   got up which again is what i did like [TS]

01:10:15   putting in a couple hours of work on the [TS]

01:10:17   things that I really cared about it like [TS]

01:10:19   oh I get some off to work now [TS]

01:10:21   oh yeah after I've given up the best [TS]

01:10:24   part of my brain that's why i never [TS]

01:10:25   understood the morning part it doesn't [TS]

01:10:27   make the like working on this stuff in [TS]

01:10:29   the mornings never made sense to me why [TS]

01:10:31   you did it why ghost did it because you [TS]

01:10:33   don't you have a hard stop time like [TS]

01:10:36   with the way i did it i will just work [TS]

01:10:38   into my body shut down and that could be [TS]

01:10:40   many hours I don't work for me [TS]

01:10:43   yeah this is this is again the [TS]

01:10:45   difference between people and when their [TS]

01:10:47   optimal work times are right and and and [TS]

01:10:49   figuring that out [TS]

01:10:51   butBut so to get back to the main point [TS]

01:10:53   i think that i was able to be a bit more [TS]

01:10:58   vague about precisely what i had been [TS]

01:11:00   doing during that time I mean that and I [TS]

01:11:04   also liked the story happened to work [TS]

01:11:06   out very well which was i was spending [TS]

01:11:08   time with family in Hawaii since I guess [TS]

01:11:11   what people don't really question that [TS]

01:11:13   right because everybody's like oh man if [TS]

01:11:15   I could live in Hawaii for a long time I [TS]

01:11:16   totally working you dude [TS]

01:11:18   yeah exactly right like school before [TS]

01:11:20   were you doing then go spend time with [TS]

01:11:22   family like not working really hard to [TS]

01:11:24   make sure i wasn't in this exact [TS]

01:11:25   position now where are we interviewing [TS]

01:11:26   for a job here i am [TS]

01:11:28   yeah exactly it's probably exactly like [TS]

01:11:32   what I failed in my endeavors and so [TS]

01:11:34   this is why we're having this [TS]

01:11:35   conversation that you don't put that on [TS]

01:11:37   the resume this is not a good thing to [TS]

01:11:39   do but I I again I think people were not [TS]

01:11:44   super inquisitive because my job was a [TS]

01:11:48   physics teacher right and if they're [TS]

01:11:51   sick this one thing that's great about [TS]

01:11:53   being a physics teacher is that the job [TS]

01:11:56   is in incredible demand and so I at any [TS]

01:12:02   interview I was a sound especially able [TS]

01:12:05   to get a job as long as i did a pretty [TS]

01:12:08   good job on the actual interview itself [TS]

01:12:10   so it was just like it was kind of a [TS]

01:12:12   no-brainer [TS]

01:12:13   unless you walk out on a completely [TS]

01:12:14   vague and shady about wanting to work in [TS]

01:12:17   a place right that's the only time it [TS]

01:12:18   would come back to bite you right yeah [TS]

01:12:21   when you're being an idiot who doesn't [TS]

01:12:22   know what's happening got this is the [TS]

01:12:25   good guy got to think about it more on [TS]

01:12:28   past me [TS]

01:12:29   but anyway so like I think that this is [TS]

01:12:33   my feeling with guide ghosts here is [TS]

01:12:37   there's two there's two things here one [TS]

01:12:42   of which is is we don't know the details [TS]

01:12:44   about what the side project is but I [TS]

01:12:47   find it's a little concerning to me that [TS]

01:12:50   whatever it is is not already earning [TS]

01:12:53   money [TS]

01:12:53   yeah if it's not making money but you [TS]

01:12:55   think it can after a few months of work [TS]

01:12:58   before making a decision like this i [TS]

01:13:01   would recommend that you burn the candle [TS]

01:13:03   at both ends and make a little bit of [TS]

01:13:06   money first because if you can't make a [TS]

01:13:09   little bit of money when you're [TS]

01:13:11   completely overworking yourself [TS]

01:13:12   unfortunately [TS]

01:13:13   I would be surprised that you would make [TS]

01:13:16   any money if you put all your time into [TS]

01:13:19   it like what is this thing that you [TS]

01:13:22   believe will take a couple of months and [TS]

01:13:23   then you'll be golden [TS]

01:13:25   I don't know about that ya know I no [TS]

01:13:27   idea i mean it's possible that it's a [TS]

01:13:30   thing ok let's just say it's possible to [TS]

01:13:32   things like developing an app for [TS]

01:13:33   example right that you can put up on the [TS]

01:13:35   store until until it is done [TS]

01:13:37   however however if it's if it's [TS]

01:13:40   something like that i really do think [TS]

01:13:42   that the the business idea of a minimum [TS]

01:13:45   viable product is something to seriously [TS]

01:13:49   consider here [TS]

01:13:50   yeah and it's like what is the smallest [TS]

01:13:53   version of this thing that someone might [TS]

01:13:56   give you some money for and if if [TS]

01:14:00   there's no if there's no version of that [TS]

01:14:02   ultimately this to me feels like a hell [TS]

01:14:06   of a gamble and so what when I left [TS]

01:14:09   teaching the first time to attempt to [TS]

01:14:12   spin up one of my older projects which [TS]

01:14:15   which didn't work i was already making a [TS]

01:14:18   decent amount of money from the project [TS]

01:14:21   before I quit teaching the first time [TS]

01:14:24   and the only question was can I spin [TS]

01:14:28   this up into a full-time living over the [TS]

01:14:32   next many months the answer to that [TS]

01:14:35   turned out to be no this is very very [TS]

01:14:37   frustrating perhaps one of the most [TS]

01:14:39   frustrating periods in my life but at [TS]

01:14:41   the very least I had an indication that [TS]

01:14:44   there is some level of market demand for [TS]

01:14:46   the thing that I'm doing and the only [TS]

01:14:48   question is can I just triple this in [TS]

01:14:51   size which i think is a very very [TS]

01:14:54   different question from I have no income [TS]

01:14:58   from this thing now can i make it into a [TS]

01:15:01   full time living in the space of of [TS]

01:15:03   several months the other thing that is a [TS]

01:15:06   little bit concerning is I don't know [TS]

01:15:10   what the intended schedule here is but [TS]

01:15:14   if I mean what my gut feeling here is it [TS]

01:15:19   would be better to take a a longer break [TS]

01:15:24   than to take a series of [TS]

01:15:27   long ish but inconvenient breaks to [TS]

01:15:30   employers I i don't know if it is [TS]

01:15:33   practical to try to save up enough to [TS]

01:15:36   say have a six-month break instead of [TS]

01:15:40   doing to three-month breaks I i don't i [TS]

01:15:44   don't know if that is possible given the [TS]

01:15:46   situation but i think that to the main [TS]

01:15:49   question about how many times can you do [TS]

01:15:51   this before employers start to worry [TS]

01:15:53   the best way to mitigate that to me [TS]

01:15:55   would would seem to be try to take a [TS]

01:15:59   longer break and and then come back to a [TS]

01:16:03   job that is in high demand instead of [TS]

01:16:06   switching employers more frequently for [TS]

01:16:09   shorter breaks again it's a it's a [TS]

01:16:13   little difficult to provide advice [TS]

01:16:15   without specifics about what is the job [TS]

01:16:17   because I could see some jobs where it [TS]

01:16:19   wouldn't matter so much but i'm i'm [TS]

01:16:21   presuming that all employers would like [TS]

01:16:25   you say not like a series of breaks [TS]

01:16:28   after quitting jobs after eight months [TS]

01:16:30   to then not work three months or or [TS]

01:16:33   something along those lines because one [TS]

01:16:35   of the things if you're working in a [TS]

01:16:37   team and the person who runs that team [TS]

01:16:39   that manages you they don't care feel [TS]

01:16:42   loyal to the company right in most [TS]

01:16:44   instances if it's a big company going to [TS]

01:16:46   work for but they just don't want to [TS]

01:16:48   have to go through this hiring process [TS]

01:16:49   again in seven or eight months time egg [TS]

01:16:52   exactly speaking as someone going [TS]

01:16:54   through the hiring process of course you [TS]

01:16:56   i would like to do it as little as [TS]

01:16:59   possible [TS]

01:16:59   what sort of the idea of loyalty is [TS]

01:17:01   sometimes just loyal to the team right [TS]

01:17:03   and you know you're not going to leave [TS]

01:17:05   the manager in the lunch after six or [TS]

01:17:07   seven months because you've you've [TS]

01:17:09   really got to go out and work on your [TS]

01:17:10   passion project for a while which leads [TS]

01:17:14   me to ask the question of guide ghost [TS]

01:17:16   wouldn't it be better to just try and do [TS]

01:17:17   contract work rather than getting for [TS]

01:17:19   time positions and companies [TS]

01:17:21   yeah that's an excellent point that if [TS]

01:17:24   there is a version of this work which is [TS]

01:17:25   contractible that seems like the way [TS]

01:17:28   better option as well so like my advice [TS]

01:17:30   would be Paul's the passion project spin [TS]

01:17:34   up a contracting business find some [TS]

01:17:36   contracting work and then you will be [TS]

01:17:38   ready to set your own schedule for as [TS]

01:17:40   long [TS]

01:17:40   you want that's what I think this person [TS]

01:17:43   should do i would say that my primary [TS]

01:17:47   feeling still is try to make any amount [TS]

01:17:52   of money even if it is small with the [TS]

01:17:54   side project before doing anything else [TS]

01:17:58   oh yeah you go to do that before you do [TS]

01:17:59   anything else you need to know that what [TS]

01:18:02   you're doing is something of a people [TS]

01:18:04   want like I'm sure you believe it's a [TS]

01:18:06   good idea i'm sure it's a good idea but [TS]

01:18:08   it doesn't mean people want to or need [TS]

01:18:10   it [TS]

01:18:11   yeah and there there's an interesting [TS]

01:18:13   feeling which is earning some money from [TS]

01:18:19   a thing that you have done for the first [TS]

01:18:22   time even if it is a trivial amount of [TS]

01:18:24   money it is i put that but that simple [TS]

01:18:27   barrier to get over that a person [TS]

01:18:30   somewhere has handed you dollars for a [TS]

01:18:34   thing like that is a a bigger barrier [TS]

01:18:38   than you might think it is and it's also [TS]

01:18:41   just such a great confirmation for you [TS]

01:18:45   that yes like somewhere in the market a [TS]

01:18:47   person has value for this because as [TS]

01:18:51   much as you you might want to just ask [TS]

01:18:53   people you can't really trust people's [TS]

01:18:57   answers if you're just asking them if [TS]

01:18:58   these if you say what do you think about [TS]

01:18:59   this thing people just want to be polite [TS]

01:19:02   and nice and they'll say oh yeah that [TS]

01:19:04   sounds like a great idea or if you ask [TS]

01:19:06   them would you buy this thing people [TS]

01:19:07   will say sure of course I'll buy that [TS]

01:19:09   thing but if you followed up with [TS]

01:19:10   immediately with will you give me five [TS]

01:19:13   dollars for this thing right now you'd [TS]

01:19:15   be surprised like people will just [TS]

01:19:17   change immediately [TS]

01:19:18   oh no i won't actually keep you money [TS]

01:19:20   for now I was just saying that to be [TS]

01:19:21   nice and so I think that's partly why [TS]

01:19:25   it's very important to learn something [TS]

01:19:29   from the side project first as as a test [TS]

01:19:32   and as a confirmation that you are on [TS]

01:19:36   the right path the absolute amount [TS]

01:19:39   doesn't matter but just getting [TS]

01:19:41   something from someone who doesn't know [TS]

01:19:44   you really does [TS]

01:19:46   good luck to you good luck ghost guide [TS]

01:19:50   good luck and i have to say Mike [TS]

01:19:54   mhm that was a good question are you are [TS]

01:19:57   happy to have that was it wasn't it was [TS]

01:19:58   long [TS]

01:19:59   there was a lot to it but i think it was [TS]

01:20:00   worth it in is like I I think so as well [TS]

01:20:03   as little little worried when you're [TS]

01:20:05   pitching this is a question I thought [TS]

01:20:08   I'm gonna be out here is Mike with a [TS]

01:20:10   long thing but someone someone was [TS]

01:20:13   laying out their situation and it was a [TS]

01:20:16   good question [TS]

01:20:17   so it was worth it so i give you I'll [TS]

01:20:20   give you a thumbs up on that my kiss [TS]

01:20:21   I give you a thumbs up on that my [TS]

01:20:23   collaborated ghost pepper on this one if [TS]

01:20:27   you have any ask cortex especially maybe [TS]

01:20:30   if they're of this kind of nature you [TS]

01:20:32   know i would hope that we might be able [TS]

01:20:34   to help with some advice I would say [TS]

01:20:36   just write it up [TS]

01:20:37   tweet at me with the hashtag ask attacks [TS]

01:20:39   and we'll see them they go into a [TS]

01:20:40   document we're going to put them in the [TS]

01:20:41   reddit you can do that tag me in it and [TS]

01:20:43   hopefully I'll see it i don't have tag [TS]

01:20:45   me in it is correct vernacular for read [TS]

01:20:47   it but that's what I'm going to say [TS]

01:20:48   anyway we're gonna mention your username [TS]

01:20:51   there you go mention my username on the [TS]

01:20:53   redder and a look at you maybe get your [TS]

01:20:55   question on the show we're helping [TS]

01:20:57   people here grey though yeah [TS]

01:20:59   yes it maybe it's time for our second [TS]

01:21:01   spin-off sure care tex we're helping [TS]

01:21:08   people get x is it [TS]

01:21:14   no I do not approve of that name for [TS]

01:21:17   tech decks now building an empire [TS]

01:21:20   without a an empire with limits the [TS]

01:21:27   limits are my cat named stuff [TS]