The Incomparable

221: Do the Hand-Wavy Thing


  the incomparable number 221 November [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  incomparable podcast I'm your host Jason [TS]

  L and we're here as we like to do every [TS]

  year to wrap up the latest season of [TS]

  doctor who and joining me to talk about [TS]

  it are people who know a little bit [TS]

  about doctor who have talked about it a [TS]

  little bit in the past on this or other [TS]

  podcasts i will introduce them to you [TS]

  now Glenn fleischmann sign in please [TS]

  ahoy-hoy Jason pleasure to be here David [TS]

  J lower hello howdy do in more'n you're [TS]

  here [TS]

  it's good to have you I it's a pleasure [TS]

  as always and Erica and sign who is on [TS]

  many podcasts delivers a doctor who i'm [TS]

  glad that you're gracing hours to a [TS]

  sharks I'm happy to be here we think of [TS]

  you as a member of our family in general [TS]

  and that that your doctor who you also [TS]

  have that other doctor who profession [TS]

  and there's about 15 podcast got a lot [TS]

  going on [TS]

  it's always nice to talk about dr. when [TS]

  you hear it's a little special treat [TS]

  yeah pretty much talk about Doctor Who [TS]

  any lines yeah sometimes we talk about [TS]

  novels and doctor who comes up we talk [TS]

  about movies and doctor who comes up [TS]

  it's funny how that happens huh [TS]

  I don't know how the homes and that's [TS]

  strange ok so Doctor Who series 8 I we [TS]

  should say up front that you may not [TS]

  know if you're just listening to the [TS]

  incomparable podcast that we on one of [TS]

  our spin-offs the TV podcast we actually [TS]

  did a wrap up of every single episode of [TS]

  the season there are 12 episodes where [TS]

  immediately following the airing of the [TS]

  episode we got on the skype and did an [TS]

  episode talking about it so you if [TS]

  you're interested in in an episode by [TS]

  episode guide and you haven't listened [TS]

  to those yet i'll go back and check it [TS]

  out the incomparable calm / TV te and [TS]

  they're all there but we should start so [TS]

  this is peter capaldi's first season as [TS]

  as the doctor and I think I think we [TS]

  perhaps should recap the season so I was [TS]

  going to go through the episodes one by [TS]

  one and just get a little quick take on [TS]

  it from everybody again referencing the [TS]

  fact that we have whole podcast about [TS]

  each one of these if you really want to [TS]

  listen to our sorts of my random [TS]

  assortment of random doctor who it's a [TS]

  little like another random podcast about [TS]

  that [TS]

  franchise deep breath it was the was the [TS]

  opening think back to august the the [TS]

  first episode written by steven moffat [TS]

  this is the one where we got to meet the [TS]

  newly regenerated picture quality [TS]

  twelfth doctor and I there was also a [TS]

  dinosaur and there was a skin below [TS]

  really briefly dinosaur dad set sad [TS]

  actually a sad death of a dinosaur I [TS]

  felt really bad about the dinosaur that [TS]

  he that was a nice moment where Peter [TS]

  Capaldi gets kind of mad because he's [TS]

  gonna I'm gonna save you and then the [TS]

  dinosaur catches on fire awkward but uh [TS]

  at this end and then there's this weird [TS]

  subplot with the skin balloon and and [TS]

  what we discovered is it's the clockwork [TS]

  droids from the girl in the fireplace [TS]

  episode that some of us like and Erica [TS]

  done some of us don't [TS]

  and uh and and that you know that you [TS]

  and it was oversized it was like an [TS]

  hour-long so thoughts about about deep [TS]

  breath now some of us were on a podcast [TS]

  we talked about deep breath [TS]

  erica was on a different podcast super I [TS]

  i want to footnote something I want to [TS]

  do a call back in the future about the [TS]

  robot we get to the end of this season [TS]

  and talk about it okay [TS]

  the guy with the clockwork head we're [TS]

  going to talk about him later in the [TS]

  half face man [TS]

  it's been ok it was I yeah I had I [TS]

  promised the episodes I felt like it was [TS]

  a pastiche as we talked about the time [TS]

  but it was very strong opening it was a [TS]

  stylistically thematically strong and [TS]

  they certainly had a through-line [TS]

  everything they brought up the whole [TS]

  kind of approach the meson seats and [TS]

  everything they did in the first episode [TS]

  really did play out [TS]

  it really did set the stage in a way [TS]

  that i think when i go back and look at [TS]

  it now it'll probably irritate need less [TS]

  because i'm informed by the rest of the [TS]

  season that they fulfill the promise [TS]

  that I didn't feel is entirely in the [TS]

  episode I just really really liked it i [TS]

  know a lot of people actually sort of as [TS]

  usual standard you and I I've done it [TS]

  we are the yin and the yang Yang Doctor [TS]

  Who fandom you guys yeah it's good i was [TS]

  in the middle i mostly liked it how [TS]

  about that and well and I fulcrum better [TS]

  than 50-percent with you in the middle [TS]

  75 yeah i like that i like the character [TS]

  bits and the the plot itself seems like [TS]

  it wasn't that that interesting things [TS]

  that i don't i usually don't watch for [TS]

  plots i'm usually watching for character [TS]

  stuff more these days so that's probably [TS]

  why I liked it but still I can't think [TS]

  of anything that I would have cut out i [TS]

  was i was on the edge of my seat the [TS]

  whole time I think I want to pick up on [TS]

  something Glenn said there because i do [TS]

  think this is a really relevant thing [TS]

  throughout this whole season which is in [TS]

  hindsight it is very clear that there [TS]

  was a plan and the plan wasn't just an [TS]

  overarching plot in fact you could argue [TS]

  there is no overarching plot there's a [TS]

  series of little sprinkled in scenes [TS]

  that remind you that there's going to be [TS]

  a finale which I i'm not a big fan of [TS]

  actually but there is an overarching [TS]

  theme of this season and and yes [TS]

  discovering who the doctor is and if he [TS]

  is a good man and and what his role is [TS]

  and is he a soldier or is he a commander [TS]

  of soldiers and all that that starts [TS]

  with episode 1 and drives through the [TS]

  whole season so what you get is not [TS]

  really a story arc but you get character [TS]

  a character arc and a theme for the [TS]

  season and that i really like i really [TS]

  like the fact that this this season [TS]

  obviously is about these issues and [TS]

  they're going to be explored in every [TS]

  episode i will point out i had actually [TS]

  forgotten about the Missy scenes [TS]

  yes I i don't get the Missy seems good [TS]

  but I block them out yes well and like [TS]

  Glenn you know going back and watching [TS]

  it after having seen the whole series it [TS]

  does irritate me less but it still [TS]

  irritates me but the big tits the [TS]

  character stuff that really worked for [TS]

  me [TS]

  oh and and I mean I love Capaldi the [TS]

  minute his feet hit the ground running [TS]

  you know I just didn't like anything [TS]

  about the story at all [TS]

  I the lesbian expert exhibition problem [TS]

  with that episode I was like I was like [TS]

  you've already introduced the fact the [TS]

  same sex and it just seemed like huh had [TS]

  two ladies have victorian and it's like [TS]

  come on [TS]

  and yet you know they were newspaper [TS]

  articles about how that was that was a [TS]

  notable moment that there was all like a [TS]

  lesbian kiss and in Doctor Who my wife [TS]

  had the had the point that she was [TS]

  bugged by the fact that she doesn't like [TS]

  how vastra treated Jenny [TS]

  she treats and Jenny points it out right [TS]

  that this is part of that relationship [TS]

  is is you know you treat me like the [TS]

  maid but you know that supposed to be a [TS]

  front but you treat me like the maid and [TS]

  I said that and and lawrence response [TS]

  was it doesn't matter she's I don't like [TS]

  I don't like mad ambassador I don't like [TS]

  that she treats Jenny that way which I [TS]

  thought was interesting [TS]

  I like that it's not a perfect lesbian [TS]

  couple because sure because that [TS]

  wouldn't be realistic any more than [TS]

  anything else so so it i agree with [TS]

  Lauren that I was kind of like giving [TS]

  manifester the side either but yeah [TS]

  thnkx booked up for herself and here it [TS]

  is clearly a relationship dynamic that [TS]

  works for them so hey more power to you [TS]

  yeah but I you know Capaldi and this [TS]

  will be an overarching will talk about [TS]

  Peter Capaldi as we go and i suspect at [TS]

  the end to he he is at the center here [TS]

  right now I do feel like we said at the [TS]

  time when we did the TV podcast i feel [TS]

  like the plots kind of beside the point [TS]

  I mean that you can actually kind of [TS]

  wave aside the plot other than the fact [TS]

  that it takes up a lot of time that I [TS]

  actually wanted more character bits and [TS]

  a little less of the plot bits believe [TS]

  in hot that you know it they construct a [TS]

  balloon out of out of skin though not [TS]

  things unnecessarily I mean you know [TS]

  it's a effectively creepy and gross if [TS]

  that's what they were shooting for they [TS]

  accomplished held it a little [TS]

  yeah yeah welcome to a new new doctor [TS]

  who where where skin is used to make a [TS]

  balloon that it that it was a message [TS]

  that carries through the season and [TS]

  welcome to a new doctor who and it's [TS]

  gonna do some things differently that is [TS]

  for sure or for any other people's skin [TS]

  this whole season is is darker and uh [TS]

  they're more debt character deaths I [TS]

  think Steven Moffat was kind of living [TS]

  down his everybody lives thing where he [TS]

  got swerved away from killing people at [TS]

  the end so many different times oh well [TS]

  they're not really dead that this season [TS]

  seemed to me to be his apology almost [TS]

  instantly season 12 is what it was he [TS]

  was harkening back to the robert holmes [TS]

  philippines cliff area which was pretty [TS]

  much this dark i mean at one point the [TS]

  doctor hands a guy a gun so he can kill [TS]

  himself [TS]

  like that's the thing that happened on [TS]

  Doctor Who in the seventies yeah so and [TS]

  then you hear the gunshot [TS]

  in fact we got the room like okay [TS]

  that's right the doctor would never use [TS]

  a gun he would just accepting all this [TS]

  episode where he does he will tricky we [TS]

  just handed to somebody else [TS]

  sure you would have a soldier to do it [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  oh god we should talk about into the [TS]

  Dalek which is a co-written episode [TS]

  supermarket and TVs Phil forward uh this [TS]

  is the this is the Steven Moffat and [TS]

  Phil forward try to tell a different [TS]

  kind of Dalek story right because we've [TS]

  seen so many different Dalek stories and [TS]

  so when into the Dalek we get the [TS]

  Fantastic Voyage we're going to be [TS]

  shrunken down by a by a shrink-ray there [TS]

  is a shrink-ray in this story and put in [TS]

  inside a Dalek [TS]

  what do we think of into the Dalek I [TS]

  liked it that that was the first time [TS]

  this year with the plot really it seems [TS]

  like it was gonna go this way and this [TS]

  way this way like you expect and I mean [TS]

  I've said the Sun several TV episodes [TS]

  that this was the first one where it's [TS]

  zigged when it was gonna zag and it it [TS]

  turned trope upside down on me and I I [TS]

  didn't see it coming and i like that and [TS]

  that again seems to be a theme and [TS]

  seemed to be part of the hello this is a [TS]

  new Doctor Who I thought it was I [TS]

  thought I don't applaud didn't do much [TS]

  for me but I thought that the character [TS]

  moments are really nice and we do have [TS]

  that moment that of the doctor basically [TS]

  sacrificing someone to save a bunch of [TS]

  other people which becomes a theme as we [TS]

  go along and once again plays into that [TS]

  whole sort of overarching officer thing [TS]

  which i thought was a good moment and I [TS]

  enjoyed the callbacks with the Dalek in [TS]

  terms of you know the doctor being [TS]

  viewed as a a good Dalek which I think [TS]

  also sort of gets played two in the in [TS]

  the overarching are completely am no [TS]

  yeah I enjoyed the fact that they really [TS]

  went for the cheesiness factor inside [TS]

  the Dalek had like those big expando [TS]

  accordion it was like there was no [TS]

  attempt to make it look precisely [TS]

  high-tech it was like you know boiler [TS]

  rooms like being a ship or the ad [TS]

  Nickelodeon TV show or something like [TS]

  weird green group and [TS]

  and press that button is to hit that [TS]

  thing that will reset the memory cells [TS]

  and it was kind of nice if I think this [TS]

  comes up later in the time heist episode [TS]

  to wear if they actually truly revel in [TS]

  the cheesiness what they're doing it [TS]

  comes across better than if they try to [TS]

  pass it for real right it's almost [TS]

  metaphorical or irrelevant because you [TS]

  just sort of enjoying the wrong i really [TS]

  liked it because I have a tendency to [TS]

  get bored with garlic story's pretty [TS]

  quickly because it tends to be the same [TS]

  story over and over and over again so i [TS]

  was i was pretty excited that they [TS]

  managed to do something different that [TS]

  hadn't been done before I mean yes and [TS]

  doctor who they have been known to [TS]

  shrink themselves and then we had the [TS]

  invisible enemy but they never went [TS]

  inside a Dalek before and I suppose yes [TS]

  you had the you know the Dalek and the [TS]

  doctor being compared to each other like [TS]

  in Dalek by Rob Sherman but i just-i I [TS]

  thought the the rearranging of all of [TS]

  the pieces worked really well for me so [TS]

  I had a lot of fun with it and like the [TS]

  inside the character moments were were [TS]

  spot-on so enjoyable on the good Dalek [TS]

  thing I mean that is the theme of this [TS]

  an episode and people were kind of [TS]

  analyzing when he met because it does [TS]

  sound like what happens in Rob Sherman's [TS]

  episode Dalek with Christopher [TS]

  Eccleston's that the difference here is [TS]

  that he was a that Dalek was was saying [TS]

  you'd be a good Dalek you like you you [TS]

  would be an excellent Dalek and hear [TS]

  what the what what rusty the dollar like [TS]

  love that says is essentially you're [TS]

  like us but good which is a real i mean [TS]

  that's like kind of a blow it's like [TS]

  well you don't want to be like a Dalek [TS]

  in any way but that's what he's saying [TS]

  is is you know like me because rusty has [TS]

  turned around and realize that the right [TS]

  thing to do is exterminate the Daleks [TS]

  that that's what the doctor is he's like [TS]

  that the Daleks except good and that is [TS]

  I mean talk about something that's going [TS]

  to make you ponder your own place in the [TS]

  universe is being compared to a Dalek in [TS]

  any way and that fits into the theme of [TS]

  the whole the whole series we haven't [TS]

  actually mentioned Clara and Danny yet [TS]

  oh yes showed in both the Ares Danny [TS]

  pink which I was so on board with with [TS]

  Clara and Danny at the beginning I did [TS]

  not want to romance I was when I first [TS]

  realized that the direction they were [TS]

  going I was angry and then I watched the [TS]

  two of them interact and deep breath and [TS]

  I was completely on board and it then it [TS]

  kind of went downhill from there i'm [TS]

  sorry to say but I was pretty excited at [TS]

  first because there was chemistry and [TS]

  one way I like the this is the the [TS]

  failed the failed didn't date you know [TS]

  pulling pulling her away from the date [TS]

  that the doctor again this is playing [TS]

  off one of the unique things about Clara [TS]

  which is she is the doctor is her hobby [TS]

  right and he comes and gets her as [TS]

  opposed to your traditional companion [TS]

  who travels with him she doesn't really [TS]

  travel with him right she gets picked up [TS]

  and taken on an adventure and then [TS]

  dropped off again that's not the same [TS]

  that's not a live-in relationship great [TS]

  day tripper yeah yeah yeah and so and [TS]

  but that leads to wacky mean this is a [TS]

  little bit of Steven Moffat scuffling [TS]

  sitcom farcical kind of scripting it [TS]

  leads to many situations where you've [TS]

  got a time machine and she's got a date [TS]

  and crazy things happen but I which I [TS]

  like [TS]

  actually um robot of Sherwood ah this [TS]

  yeah yeah this is this is an episode [TS]

  that the duh i would say it's divisive [TS]

  peccato always devices all the fans [TS]

  everybody's got a different opinion [TS]

  about every episode of doctor this is [TS]

  all this was a super like this is the [TS]

  one that went into the time I said on [TS]

  twitter i can i can already guess [TS]

  exactly who doesn't like this episode [TS]

  and why they don't like it because it's [TS]

  light and fun and a lot of the [TS]

  technology stuff makes no sense at all [TS]

  there was a core story with the sheriff [TS]

  was actually a relatively clever [TS]

  character and reminding me there's a [TS]

  classic science fiction story in which [TS]

  aliens landed a planet and they [TS]

  threatened to devour everybody and this [TS]

  one guy two volunteers to cook everybody [TS]

  in the town slowly in this cooks body [TS]

  parts and keeps everyone alive so we [TS]

  celebrated as both the hero when they [TS]

  are liberated and not i was thinking the [TS]

  sheriff sort of fits that like aliens [TS]

  show up and figure out how to subvert [TS]

  them to his own benefit this case but he [TS]

  was more but he was actually kind of [TS]

  interesting character than that they [TS]

  were like wait aren't you an artificial [TS]

  lake know your real well I you know that [TS]

  was actually I was not expecting that [TS]

  Erica by the way my favorite probably [TS]

  single line of the entire doctor who [TS]

  season in terms of fan commentary with [TS]

  the title of the very episode about this [TS]

  which is robot sure wouldn't [TS]

  no that was there was a slash between [TS]

  the wood and the apostrophe NT because [TS]

  some of us like this and like that [TS]

  didn't [TS]

  yeah i was is firmly on the difference [TS]

  I'd I remember when you tweeted this is [TS]

  the episode that I know exactly how [TS]

  people are gonna react and as soon as i [TS]

  read that my first thought was Graham [TS]

  Chapman as the British Army Colonel [TS]

  going this show is to city and i loved [TS]

  it but it's a romp it's yeah it's [TS]

  totally ridiculous Robin ridiculous and [TS]

  even more than like the Crimson horror [TS]

  from last season which I also didn't [TS]

  like also mark gatiss well I guess [TS]

  they're among the silliness in this [TS]

  episode had does have a lot of great [TS]

  moments that again great character [TS]

  moments particularly the scene where [TS]

  they're locked up in the prison cell and [TS]

  the robin hood and the doctor go back [TS]

  and forth but who's got the better plan [TS]

  for escaping there's a lot of really [TS]

  good you know crotchety property dr. [TS]

  moments i like the fact that the doctor [TS]

  admits that he cheated and people get [TS]

  sicker like well how did that arrow blow [TS]

  up [TS]

  well I mean the whole thing was rigged [TS]

  it was so loud it was a fake [TS]

  I hated that scene in the investment [TS]

  girl with a night of the trigger dungeon [TS]

  yes because the doctor was acting like a [TS]

  pouty petty was little child and is you [TS]

  don't know baby i like it when the [TS]

  doctor is childlike I like it a lot less [TS]

  than the doctors childish everyone's no [TS]

  it's okay but this episode he was just [TS]

  being a big baby from beginning to end [TS]

  and I didn't like it the scenes with [TS]

  with Clara and the sheriff I quite [TS]

  enjoyed I thought those were good and [TS]

  weirdly enough i think i would have [TS]

  liked this one if you had come the [TS]

  season before because it didn't feel [TS]

  like a cappella the episode of 1000 it [TS]

  felt like a matt smith story that was [TS]

  just dropped in [TS]

  I want to call attention to the thing [TS]

  that happens at the end of this episode [TS]

  Maid Marian being returned as a gift [TS]

  which I did not like I have a gift here [TS]

  it's a human being she's been standing [TS]

  behind the TARDIS well as the miserable [TS]

  we talk i don't know I I don't think [TS]

  this is one of the stronger episodes of [TS]

  the year but I didn't I i would put in [TS]

  the positive Colin only because I [TS]

  thought it was I thought it was light [TS]

  and fun and this is a little bit like my [TS]

  argument for a lot of the Christmas [TS]

  episodes is they're trying to do with a [TS]

  specific job which is keep it light and [TS]

  fun have spectacle on Christmas Day and [TS]

  I felt robot of Sherwood was kinda like [TS]

  that if he wasn't [TS]

  christmas i would have judged I'm very [TS]

  different ya see ya [TS]

  every day is Christmas Erica not my [TS]

  heart [TS]

  alright we're going forward device to [TS]

  see what I say device not listen is next [TS]

  one of my favorite i watched i watched [TS]

  listen on a laptop in a hotel room [TS]

  sitting next to Glen and I liked it [TS]

  no I regularly watch it on two laptops [TS]

  didn't we yes synced that's right synced [TS]

  up one audio on one audio oh yeah good [TS]

  times good times [TS]

  listen listen you know interesting [TS]

  script we we get young Danny pink we get [TS]

  Orson pink descendant of Danny pink [TS]

  who's the stranded time traveler at the [TS]

  end of the universe back at the end of [TS]

  the universal wonder if he's a listening [TS]

  to radio signals from utopia while he's [TS]

  out there and is exist and in the end I [TS]

  don't know and and in the end there's a [TS]

  moment that it turns out to be [TS]

  it's actually in the barn on from the [TS]

  50th anniversary episode which is [TS]

  related to Gallifrey in some way this is [TS]

  like the hinterlands of Gallifrey then [TS]

  but this is that that's the reveal of [TS]

  this episode is that the scared child [TS]

  who is afraid of the monster under her [TS]

  under his bed is the doctor as a child [TS]

  which is a quite think so what if you're [TS]

  being what do we think of that this is [TS]

  also their love chalkboards and some [TS]

  very interesting script what we think of [TS]

  listen it'sit's this it's the way it's [TS]

  the imperative the Steven Moffat [TS]

  imperatives episode don't blink [TS]

  listen don't eat breathe don't breathe [TS]

  don't breathe don't perspire now don't [TS]

  put don't wear a shirt [TS]

  no don't don't stick pins in your ear [TS]

  don't worry classes but yeah I love this [TS]

  just because it did take that that [TS]

  moment because I have joked about that [TS]

  before you know don't breathe don't [TS]

  blink don't perspire don't whatever and [TS]

  it turned out there's no villain in this [TS]

  writer zoo or is always there [TS]

  well or else but there's not a [TS]

  traditional is not a traditional villain [TS]

  shall we [TS]

  aureus area where is there is [TS]

  there but that was sort of an [TS]

  interesting ending and it did not go [TS]

  where again where we were expecting with [TS]

  all the don't do this don't that and to [TS]

  have those moments [TS]

  echoing around you know and the speeches [TS]

  echoing and realizing that what he says [TS]

  to young young Danny at the beginning is [TS]

  what she said to him at the end was just [TS]

  beautiful and and you know maybe maybe [TS]

  it's being a parent now that really hit [TS]

  me hard [TS]

  if you want to pick a like and [TS]

  effectively super creepy scene the scene [TS]

  with the young Danny and the thing under [TS]

  the blankets when my award as the [TS]

  creepiest thing that happened this [TS]

  season [TS]

  mm and and it never really gets [TS]

  explained which where I'm ok with a [TS]

  single day without we have a little [TS]

  under the yeah what's the thing under [TS]

  the blanket it doesn't explain but [TS]

  there's an explanation [TS]

  no but there's no but it's not [TS]

  conclusive i think is our bill that's [TS]

  what is left and buries us it's [TS]

  ambiguous but it still it works either [TS]

  way it's described exactly right [TS]

  this is master i like my favorite [TS]

  episode this emerica yeah of course it [TS]

  is driving me to stay right here no [TS]

  Robert Rhoades sure what i thought this [TS]

  was exquisite in its construction but it [TS]

  didn't have to be a doctor who episode [TS]

  to work and maybe that's part difference [TS]

  I don't know what I just I I I felt like [TS]

  this story was very much it was like a [TS]

  piece of art that i just did not connect [TS]

  with emotionally it was well crafted in [TS]

  many ways it was beautiful it just [TS]

  didn't work for me [TS]

  first of all I don't like the idea of [TS]

  the doctor crying as a six-year-old [TS]

  child like that just that kind of throws [TS]

  off my vision of the doctor and yes [TS]

  that's on me but it's it's that setting [TS]

  and disturbing and I appreciate how [TS]

  often made every single scene have two [TS]

  different explanations it could be this [TS]

  this creature that the doctor thinks is [TS]

  out there or it could be exactly what he [TS]

  says it is in any given seen you know [TS]

  the whole is cooling it's making cracks [TS]

  you know that that the air is rushing [TS]

  out simply because of the difference in [TS]

  air pressure you know and I i really [TS]

  wanted to see them a monster it didn't [TS]

  have to be super scary it could have [TS]

  turned out to not actually be a month [TS]

  there could have been something good i [TS]

  just i don't like the idea that the [TS]

  doctor can be so completely wrong that [TS]

  always gives me the willies but he's um [TS]

  yeah that's the thing it's ambiguous [TS]

  he's playing the thing well here's the [TS]

  thing we know not long after that he [TS]

  sees the untempered schism and he runs [TS]

  he runs never stops running [TS]

  he is that scared boy this is an earlier [TS]

  manifestation of that gives us insight [TS]

  into yeah don't get me started on the [TS]

  untempered schism either i thought well [TS]

  but but here's my question why wouldn't [TS]

  the six-year-old dr. cry you know I part [TS]

  of I mean purposes of course it's it is [TS]

  a show em two kids two and one of the [TS]

  things that mind really enjoyed about it [TS]

  was seeing that first of all he was once [TS]

  a kid that he couldn't cry and that he [TS]

  could be scared to even though he's this [TS]

  super guy who has gone on to have this [TS]

  life and he's a hero whether he thinks [TS]

  he's good or not this year but you know [TS]

  all these things but at one point he was [TS]

  like them to buy any and it also relates [TS]

  with him being like I think the reason [TS]

  he find so much empathy potentially [TS]

  among humans to write is that he is yes [TS]

  very human in many ways [TS]

  yeah i just don't think I don't think [TS]

  young me at the age of your children [TS]

  would have would have felt that way but [TS]

  i think i would reflect into you [TS]

  the opposite in a way to get that was a [TS]

  pretty sensitive kid and the doctor was [TS]

  like a family member at that point so [TS]

  that was it that would have been tough [TS]

  and actually I have a red since that [TS]

  Steven Moffat had created a character [TS]

  called the floof in one of his a been [TS]

  one of the novels or something that [TS]

  actually has all of the attributes of [TS]

  this is character that this this [TS]

  creature that may or may not exist that [TS]

  the doctor is surmising something that [TS]

  can that can hide really well so that [TS]

  whether or not it's supposed to be taken [TS]

  as an actual thing or the doctor being [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  I just think it's funny that once again [TS]

  we have steven moffat taking something [TS]

  from the past and something from the the [TS]

  the wilderness years of Doctor Who and [TS]

  sliding in you know great artists steal [TS]

  from themselves [TS]

  yeah that's right the this this is seems [TS]

  to be the consensus choice for favorite [TS]

  episode of the season which is why [TS]

  Erica's responses so fascinating to me I [TS]

  I liked it but I did not feel the love [TS]

  that so many people did for I thought it [TS]

  was fine i thought it was a little bit [TS]

  messy [TS]

  I thought that it doesn't necessarily [TS]

  hold together when you start thinking [TS]

  about the thing under the blanket and [TS]

  all of that but I liked I liked that it [TS]

  was so different and strange and took us [TS]

  to so many different places I I always [TS]

  people who listen to this podcast me [TS]

  know I get people you created a lot of [TS]

  credit for trying things that are [TS]

  different and out of their comfort zone [TS]

  and especially to show this this [TS]

  venerable to have it be have brought an [TS]

  episode like this i was I think a good [TS]

  sign of things to come in this season to [TS]

  that this episode is so so strange [TS]

  compared to so many doctor who episodes [TS]

  but I didn't unabashedly love it like so [TS]

  many people that I think time for a [TS]

  sponsor break i'm gonna cross the sci-fi [TS]

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  for sponsoring the uncomfortable time [TS]

  heist his neck [TS]

  talk about a change of pace for the [TS]

  better [TS]

  well certainly different right i mean [TS]

  just the pacing alone the fact that this [TS]

  is a bank robbery heist episode that [TS]

  it's on an alien planet that is full of [TS]

  variously lit corridors this field [TS]

  everyone else like the Titanic what was [TS]

  that called a weighted hand and your [TS]

  damned yeah ya did this I thought this [TS]

  had a very similar feel to it because it [TS]

  was a little bit silly it was a little [TS]

  bit spiffy and even some of the like [TS]

  strangeness other kind of that echoey i [TS]

  don't know i did that's what everyone [TS]

  tonight is Doctor Who pastiche of a like [TS]

  a a heist movie instead of a disaster [TS]

  movie but it is that is that is elevated [TS]

  that's yeah exactly and since doctors [TS]

  11-12 David yeah moving [TS]

  I've heard more people compare money on [TS]

  the Orient Express to rage of the Damned [TS]

  but I don't like with that too [TS]

  however way to the damned is one of the [TS]

  most one of the most reviled episodes of [TS]

  knew who I was her saying oceans live in [TS]

  because oceans 12 is awful [TS]

  you know if you don't feel consequences [TS]

  of the deaths that's when it starts to [TS]

  feel silly so like the the meantime [TS]

  heist it doesn't feel consequential you [TS]

  don't have the emotional people died [TS]

  yeah then they come back over to the [TS]

  transmat being which we've seen done [TS]

  before as opposed the ones where someone [TS]

  dies it's an emotional residents I think [TS]

  those feels sort of like that's that [TS]

  sort of sense so I i really like the the [TS]

  highest quality here the fact that it [TS]

  that they don't they don't have they [TS]

  don't have their memories I think it's [TS]

  very clearly on for anybody who's seen [TS]

  any episodes of Doctor Who and all that [TS]

  the architect is probably going to be [TS]

  the doctor because that's what that [TS]

  happens i really i really like the [TS]

  teller in this in that there's a creepy [TS]

  Monster that is kinda carted out but [TS]

  it's not used in the same way that [TS]

  monsters often are in Doctor Who that [TS]

  it's this kind of tool of of the people [TS]

  who run the bank and it turns out in the [TS]

  end just like in hide from last year [TS]

  it's just a sad monster that wants to be [TS]

  loved [TS]

  this is a good end yeah this true yeah [TS]

  that's right i loved hide until the end [TS]

  when they nerfed the monster I was a [TS]

  little bit annoyed by that [TS]

  haha time ice is actually my favorite I [TS]

  think of the entire series because i'm [TS]

  just i'm a sucker for heist things so I [TS]

  don't care about how silly you know the [TS]

  giant vents are and like that the fact [TS]

  that this Bank really isn't all that [TS]

  impregnable even supposed to be I just I [TS]

  think Douglas McKinnon did an amazing [TS]

  job i think it was directed so well you [TS]

  get all kinds of you know oceans 11 [TS]

  hustle style shots i actually made [TS]

  Stephen watching episode of hostile with [TS]

  me as soon as this was done because it [TS]

  was just so it did feel very hostile [TS]

  like yeah love muscle and then the [TS]

  relighting the corridors and different [TS]

  lights I mean that is just like that's [TS]

  an homage to classic Doctor Who really [TS]

  you know running through the same [TS]

  corridor again and again I kinda wanted [TS]

  to be even more iced tea i think is my [TS]

  one my one criticism is that i liked it [TS]

  but like well it's hard yeah that wasn't [TS]

  a doctor [TS]

  it's hard to do a heist in Doctor Who [TS]

  because the doctor is so smart and it's [TS]

  going to be like not run into so many [TS]

  problems like and so everything goes a [TS]

  little bit too well from like a really [TS]

  good heist film I i still liked it i am [TS]

  and i thought that i did find the ending [TS]

  a little bit a little bit of a letdown [TS]

  even though it like as Jason said you [TS]

  know you kind of kind of see it coming [TS]

  that the doctor is going to be the [TS]

  architect no you don't have to admit I [TS]

  did not see that coming did seem really [TS]

  obvious I did it but I did see the fact [TS]

  that the teller was a victim and was [TS]

  going to be a good guy and like always [TS]

  and clearly well he was chained up ya [TS]

  get my mind if I have a problem with [TS]

  this episode because I loved the pacing [TS]

  and i love the love the brightly colored [TS]

  corridor relit corridors I thought that [TS]

  was I thought that was actually fun and [TS]

  funny [TS]

  my problem with it is there's this this [TS]

  weird sudden twist at the end which is 0 [TS]

  the directors clone and she's also going [TS]

  to leave and did we mention that the the [TS]

  planet is going to be destroyed because [TS]

  like totally then be there's a solar [TS]

  storm comes out of nowhere and nope and [TS]

  I will will evacuate and it never felt [TS]

  like it was properly communicated that [TS]

  this was going to be so devastating that [TS]

  that it would end and it was amid all of [TS]

  this like reveal of the clone and that [TS]

  she's gonna leave and I felt like they [TS]

  fumbled that part of it that was that we [TS]

  could nvm with the teller is cute that [TS]

  the fact they come back in the hole [TS]

  da here is that they come back in time [TS]

  to see the teller i had no problem with [TS]

  that it was just that let that there's [TS]

  about five minutes there's something I [TS]

  wanted where where it's like that like [TS]

  miracle happens here ? cloud-like i [TS]

  don't know let's just say some stuff and [TS]

  hopefully exactly right [TS]

  yeah that that's my problem with it i [TS]

  like that they pointed out the fact that [TS]

  too many people have the number to the [TS]

  TARDIS phone because otherwise i'm [TS]

  getting a little bit ridiculous but like [TS]

  all the phone that never rings accept [TS]

  only every other episode yeah well he he [TS]

  outsources Jason I completely agree with [TS]

  all of those flowers that you mentioned [TS]

  and that is just how much i enjoyed the [TS]

  rest of the stuff that I don't care [TS]

  about that kind of giant holes and the [TS]

  other thing that I really liked is is [TS]

  not only is it a heist movie but it's a [TS]

  heist movie at the beginning where they [TS]

  don't actually know what they are doing [TS]

  or why they're doing it or who the other [TS]

  people are I i like it when you know you [TS]

  you get to find out along with the [TS]

  characters what is happening and who's [TS]

  got what skills that they reminded me a [TS]

  little bit of the movie cube i don't [TS]

  know if anybody seen that one but a [TS]

  canadian film had a Charlie's Angels [TS]

  moment to because it is like all right [TS]

  here's your mission that's sort of what [TS]

  happens like okay Charlie whatever you [TS]

  say except the doctor is himself Charlie [TS]

  I will check this up also to my a couple [TS]

  people in a couple points in this season [TS]

  with a really excellent guest stars [TS]

  especially actresses who are woefully [TS]

  underutilized in this case you cause who [TS]

  doesn't get much to do as the villain oh [TS]

  yeah and I'll be gentle gentle glasses [TS]

  that's pretty when we are when we get to [TS]

  kill the moon to which is my other [TS]

  problem she's practically whatever her [TS]

  name was Miss foster from the adipose [TS]

  episode right it's like saying weird [TS]

  right almost exactly our time highest [TS]

  III Erica you know this is it goes back [TS]

  to my my previous terrible derogatory [TS]

  statements about certain parts of fandom [TS]

  about but I I don't wanna I'm not okay [TS]

  i'm judging a little bit i was gonna say [TS]

  I'm not judging but but you know there [TS]

  are people for whom those five minutes [TS]

  we're all kind of falls apart will sour [TS]

  the entire episode and then there are [TS]

  people who are like yeah it was fun [TS]

  that part doesn't make any sense but it [TS]

  was unbalanced so fun that I didn't care [TS]

  and I fall into that camp with this is [TS]

  like I i wish that five minutes had made [TS]

  more sense because i think it would have [TS]

  made this episode that much better but [TS]

  on balance [TS]

  you know the pace the fund those colors [TS]

  the teller there so there there's the [TS]

  the characters that there was that there [TS]

  with on the heist that was all of that [TS]

  makes a good i will agree with Jason's [TS]

  point i think that the five minutes the [TS]

  end that sort of back load everything [TS]

  kept us from being say like my favorite [TS]

  up so the season but it still gets a [TS]

  thumbs up on balance [TS]

  yeah yeah enjoyable absolutely let me [TS]

  take a break to tell you about one of [TS]

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  uncomfortable the caretaker is next this [TS]

  is this is a gareth roberts and Steven [TS]

  Moffat joint this is gareth roberts [TS]

  retreading some of the territory of the [TS]

  larger I think where it say where it's [TS]

  the doctor tries to sort of pretend to [TS]

  be a regular person in the human world [TS]

  and proves that he does a terrible job [TS]

  at it we get a lot of Danny and Clara [TS]

  and that's why I'm staking a flag and [TS]

  saying I really like this fluids because [TS]

  it's hilarious [TS]

  i'm sorry i really enjoy the fact that [TS]

  he was so bad at being a normal person [TS]

  and is transparently bag that I just [TS]

  found it hilarious from one end to the [TS]

  other and he thinks he's so good at it [TS]

  yeah it's just like fault i enjoyed a [TS]

  lot of people thought he was being [TS]

  really mean to Danny I think that kind [TS]

  of goes with the same thing with him [TS]

  being petty earlier like we're getting a [TS]

  doctor who doesn't really is not very [TS]

  nice he's not very good at these things [TS]

  he's a good person underneath but like [TS]

  you know outwardly he's kind of a jerk [TS]

  he doesn't care right he's not [TS]

  suppressing his jerkiness we used to eat [TS]

  cum right i mean he does upstairs in the [TS]

  sense that he cares about other people [TS]

  he just doesn't care about their [TS]

  opinions after this right but the [TS]

  landfill the light for I i agree i think [TS]

  it got this is one of those ones where [TS]

  it but I fell in both sides of it but it [TS]

  ended up in the positive column because [TS]

  I everything dan said absolutely right [TS]

  except i hated the scenes between the [TS]

  doctor and Danny it made me so [TS]

  uncomfortable the thinking being that [TS]

  mean [TS]

  and I really didn't like Clara being so [TS]

  dishonest and sneaking Danny into the [TS]

  TARDIS this is the doctors like inner [TS]

  sanctum [TS]

  that's so not cool lady i was i was only [TS]

  with bad but but everything else was [TS]

  just so funny and and the robot the [TS]

  skovox blitzer Blitzer was adorable and [TS]

  particularly threatening but funny [TS]

  yeah and you to see Danny to a flip cute [TS]

  it could destroy the entire Earth but [TS]

  that's over half well the episode or the [TS]

  scene where they have to you know [TS]

  they're like thinking on their feet [TS]

  trying to explain to Danny who the [TS]

  doctor like your dad you know like that [TS]

  or it is just like it's hilarious and I [TS]

  it's not a super series upset i think [TS]

  that's what I like about it the monster [TS]

  is there is window dressing and to [TS]

  provide some sort of like credible [TS]

  threat but that's not really important [TS]

  you get Courtney woods being kind of [TS]

  like going back and forth the doctor and [TS]

  the doctor is basically the equivalent [TS]

  of like a thirteen-year-old boy and like [TS]

  so they're just sniping at each other [TS]

  most of the time but they take some the [TS]

  TARDIS the end I don't know it just it [TS]

  all kind of falls together kind of [TS]

  nicely for me I I think Erica you're a [TS]

  lot more protective of dr. i understand [TS]

  that i think probably have a lot longer [TS]

  history and so I kind of you know feels [TS]

  more like oh you know he's just a guy [TS]

  and he's always a little bit different [TS]

  in every form to sometimes he's bound to [TS]

  be kind of kind of a grumpy at some [TS]

  point in some ways I think it's better [TS]

  as a viewer to have a loser review like [TS]

  you do with then i'm i'm i'm a little [TS]

  bit set in my ways and crusty and old [TS]

  and I try to recognize that but [TS]

  sometimes we can't help it I I like this [TS]

  one too i like the like tone of it and [TS]

  the fact that it you know again you can [TS]

  take it a little [TS]

  you can take it too seriously it's funny [TS]

  it is in the style of the larger which I [TS]

  hold it where where the doctors [TS]

  convinced that Claire must have a crush [TS]

  on the other teacher is axiomatic miss [TS]

  yeah that was a beautiful [TS]

  yeah i think that did a nice job of [TS]

  getting reducing some of the [TS]

  uncomfortableness of the mat cameo in [TS]

  the end of the episode the first episode [TS]

  right I feel like that that's almost a [TS]

  better way to handle it is having this [TS]

  like we know there's a relationship [TS]

  there and that there's something that [TS]

  was lost but like dealing with it in [TS]

  sort of a comic aside works better when [TS]

  dealing with trouble trouble maker [TS]

  Kourtney and having him be like Oh [TS]

  troublemaker a and I like how he's [TS]

  always interviewing other possible [TS]

  companions very funny and the fact that [TS]

  she's a troublemaker and that doesn't [TS]

  disqualify you from the dr liking you [TS]

  because he is a troublemaker and I like [TS]

  that too but throwing up on the TARDIS [TS]

  might yeah that yeah that's right you [TS]

  might mind cleaning supplies along in [TS]

  which case you have killed the moon [TS]

  episode 7 new in which in which a the [TS]

  movie moon is killed [TS]

  no that doesn't happen this is a [TS]

  courtney good comes along with the [TS]

  doctor Clara and they go to the moon [TS]

  where there's a space shuttle [TS]

  I guess and nuclear bombs and spiders [TS]

  that aren't spiders but bacteria but [TS]

  they still spin webs but they're totally [TS]

  not [TS]

  spiders and I in the end of the doctor [TS]

  runs away leaving Clara and Kourtney and [TS]

  the astronaut who is there with the [TS]

  nuclear bombs to determine the fate of [TS]

  the moon and the earth so what do we [TS]

  think of kill the moon the disposable [TS]

  astronauts are like I don't quite know [TS]

  what I'm doing here i shall wonder of a [TS]

  good it was like these poor guys they're [TS]

  not really astronauts we brought along [TS]

  the best we can do they'll get killed it [TS]

  was not know another another [TS]

  underutilize great actress in hermione [TS]

  Norris who is fantastic in spooks and [TS]

  kingdom and a bunch of other stuff and [TS]

  it's just has nothing to do here in an [TS]

  episode that entirely feel so contrived [TS]

  just to bring about the last five [TS]

  minutes and the last five minutes in the [TS]

  argument that Clara and the doctor have [TS]

  is the best part of this episode but it [TS]

  feels like they burned off 40 minutes [TS]

  just to get to that so that we can have [TS]

  this moral argument between the two of [TS]

  them and it there did for that removes [TS]

  all the stakes for me and everything I [TS]

  didn't care what you used to do I didn't [TS]

  fit so there's some fantastical elements [TS]

  of this writing the moon [TS]

  I mean they've right off there like a [TS]

  there's gravity on the moon something [TS]

  weird is going on because we don't want [TS]

  to pay to do special effects where [TS]

  gravity is lighter so we're just going [TS]

  to say that there's more gravity now and [TS]

  they're the spiders and there's the but [TS]

  they're only germs and the moon is an [TS]

  egg but it's going to I mean right the [TS]

  moon is an egg is a great kind of crazy [TS]

  statement to make the moon is a negative [TS]

  it's about the hatch that is actually [TS]

  kind of brilliant but everything around [TS]

  is like and then they'll be another [TS]

  it'll have another egg and movie night [TS]

  moon and it was another English things I [TS]

  thought was telegraphed way too early in [TS]

  the episode I just I don't know if it [TS]

  made sense to me very early on and I [TS]

  kept being like guys guys attaching its [TS]

  hatching come on catch up [TS]

  yeah yeah it's it's I like this is what [TS]

  I said before I like the fact that this [TS]

  the story is so different and the tone [TS]

  is so different it's so strange and that [TS]

  the moon is an ache idea is so bizarre [TS]

  that said this is funny because this is [TS]

  the the one episode of the TV podcast [TS]

  this season that I wasn't on because [TS]

  they were playing an 18-inning long [TS]

  baseball camp and so huh [TS]

  so some nice gentleman recorded a [TS]

  podcast instead I was right i find that [TS]

  fight because the people who listen to [TS]

  TV would be like [TS]

  so Jason what he likes every episode [TS]

  well that's because i wasn't on the [TS]

  killing moon episode because i didn't [TS]

  like kill the moon i love all of its [TS]

  attempts to be different but I thought [TS]

  it was terrible i thought the doctor [TS]

  later is is inconceivable the doctors i [TS]

  won't make any sense I gotta go [TS]

  i I don't I don't entirely agree with [TS]

  the people criticize this and said that [TS]

  it's a pro-life message because this is [TS]

  essentially saying you've got a spare [TS]

  the spare the baby i i get where they're [TS]

  coming from but I don't think that was [TS]

  the intent of this episode and I like [TS]

  the fact that the doctor is empowering [TS]

  women to decide whether the earth lives [TS]

  or dies and whether this egg hatches or [TS]

  not but the fact that the doctor would [TS]

  after 50 years of intervening in order [TS]

  to protect humanity decides to run away [TS]

  time here either 11 either he's a coward [TS]

  or or two he's playing head games with [TS]

  Clara in order to have her make a [TS]

  decision that he already knows what [TS]

  she's gonna make it either way it's not [TS]

  good and I don't like it so and plus [TS]

  then oh and they laid another egg that [TS]

  looks exactly like the moon the end [TS]

  right convenient [TS]

  yeah this is one where I mean I think [TS]

  there are things I liked about it and I [TS]

  think if I enjoyed the experience of [TS]

  watching it but overall with probably [TS]

  not one of my favorites in this series [TS]

  because I i liked like you said you know [TS]

  the empowering women there are three [TS]

  women and all of the men in the episode [TS]

  either run away or are bumbling idiots [TS]

  and get killed off one by one like it [TS]

  it's a pretty it's a pretty [TS]

  female-centric episode which we help [TS]

  kind of cool [TS]

  however I I feel the same way about the [TS]

  doctors actions and maybe this comes [TS]

  back to me being overprotective of the [TS]

  doctor but I i hated watching him act [TS]

  that way that did whether it maybe I can [TS]

  hand wave it and make it makes sense [TS]

  because he's pretty damaged and broken [TS]

  in in this incarnation and still trying [TS]

  to figure himself out so so maybe it [TS]

  kind of does make sense that this is the [TS]

  time that he chooses to to stop [TS]

  intervening and run away and and let the [TS]

  ER thurs make the choice but i hate and [TS]

  repeated watching that happen and i [TS]

  think also it's not entirely fair [TS]

  because Hermione Norris is the only one [TS]

  that's actually of that Earth both Clara [TS]

  and you know this teenager Courtney who [TS]

  readin [TS]

  really she hasn't had a whole lot of [TS]

  life behind her yet to make these kind [TS]

  of big decisions they're from a [TS]

  completely different time so it it just [TS]

  didn't make sense and i do agree that [TS]

  the best scene was at the end with Clark [TS]

  just given the doctor both barrels it [TS]

  was amazingly acted but it once again [TS]

  really uncomfortable to watch and and I [TS]

  I like some some emotions in my doctor [TS]

  who but this was just like it seemed [TS]

  like the whole series kept building and [TS]

  the episodes that had the least amount [TS]

  of the thanks for the ones that I like [TS]

  the best so that's why this one was less [TS]

  enjoyable and this is one more i'll [TS]

  agree all agree with Erica about the [TS]

  doctor and the way that he acts feeling [TS]

  cringe-worthy because the other ones [TS]

  where he's being kind of petty that's [TS]

  one thing but to abdicate responsibility [TS]

  as Jason pointed out when he's been [TS]

  doing this for so why is this the point [TS]

  why is this the one that he has to walk [TS]

  away from that doesn't make any sense at [TS]

  all like that is not something we've [TS]

  ever seen before to me this is the [TS]

  inconsistency in the character whereas [TS]

  everything else he did even if it's [TS]

  unbecoming at least with was consistent [TS]

  with the characterization that we've [TS]

  been presented of this incarnation of [TS]

  the doctor so I just don't get it and it [TS]

  feels contrived to make that it like to [TS]

  set up that argument yeah and it's just [TS]

  catches feels it feels like to me this [TS]

  was the worst episode of the season [TS]

  hands down for me [TS]

  yep i agree with you i think david mr. [TS]

  McNulty and I spent an enormous amount [TS]

  of time going Y on the via TV [TS]

  oh I'm not worried my dear God I didn't [TS]

  like the gravity I hate the heat episode [TS]

  where there's pseudoscience but they [TS]

  don't do the hand wavy thing so it's [TS]

  like it's one thing if you invent some [TS]

  kind of ridiculous scientific principle [TS]

  and then stand by its other like there's [TS]

  more gravity is like there is not wear [TS]

  the mask come from [TS]

  give me the most lame explanation about [TS]

  sucking this is really something like [TS]

  university their bacteria but they they [TS]

  only look like spiders but they said [TS]

  well and web mining that's why just just [TS]

  just have a parallel universe that it's [TS]

  sucking energy out of and I'd be okay [TS]

  with it but no rap and parable yeah [TS]

  metaphor myth-making okay like I said [TS]

  foot lot of credit for it as as [TS]

  audacious is this suit is the moon isn't [TS]

  egg but execution-wise yeah and and [TS]

  undercutting the doctor and and his [TS]

  character in order to get his argument [TS]

  with Claire at the end which I don't [TS]

  agree with Dan totally is why he does [TS]

  what he does he does it so that they can [TS]

  have an argument at the end not because [TS]

  it makes any sense becoming the scripts [TS]

  traded right out I mean otherwise you [TS]

  can have the doctor caught under [TS]

  something heavy and be like is heavy you [TS]

  make the decision right that doesn't [TS]

  happen he could be trapped watching an [TS]

  endless baseball game and she has to [TS]

  make the discuss rates the 18th inning I [TS]

  have to go [TS]

  yeah I enjoyed watching bits and pieces [TS]

  of it though because I didn't think that [TS]

  there was fun [TS]

  there was some tension and get some [TS]

  excitement and they really did you know [TS]

  Hinchcliffe the bleep out of ya the [TS]

  first 15 minutes then and there was some [TS]

  mystery and and that you know I didn't [TS]

  know what was going on so when you [TS]

  ignore some of the reasons that things [TS]

  were happening and just just go with the [TS]

  flow i enjoyed a lot of that part I like [TS]

  the space base [TS]

  I like the moon scenes that they were [TS]

  like I thought that looked kind of [TS]

  cordial for Doctor Who right especially [TS]

  it's like wow they're on the moon that's [TS]

  nice but but the story [TS]

  yeah okay the moon we've killed it [TS]

  mommy on the Orient Express is next [TS]

  which when I heard this title I thought [TS]

  well this is like a holdover from last [TS]

  season where they had the wild titles [TS]

  and the super broad episodes and like [TS]

  like time heist this is a you know this [TS]

  is a story of a of a certain type it is [TS]

  on a space train and there's a murderous [TS]

  mummy and it's as broad ax an idea as as [TS]

  as possible i watch this one in a [TS]

  different hotel room with dan was i [TS]

  there [TS]

  Oh No within more and we watch this in [TS]

  montreal and then we did a podcast how [TS]

  did the two experiences compare i watch [TS]

  on a TV yeah we watched on TV in a [TS]

  topsia because dan had the right cables [TS]

  I i thought this episode was really fun [TS]

  right that it was fun and when it had [TS]

  great jokes and have a good pace this [TS]

  episode felt more like classic Doctor [TS]

  Who than anything I have seen in a long [TS]

  time you just had the ceiling of the old [TS]

  school doctor who episode that wasn't [TS]

  taking itself too seriously was just [TS]

  sort of having a good time and I enjoyed [TS]

  the heck out of [TS]

  beginning to end and in contrast to the [TS]

  last episode when stuff happens like and [TS]

  doesn't make quote-unquote sense like [TS]

  the 66 seconds things they come up with [TS]

  an explanation and that explanation [TS]

  doesn't need to be like perfectly [TS]

  sensible but excited x it's an [TS]

  explanation of the great that's fine [TS]

  that's consistent with the world that [TS]

  you've created here [TS]

  all we ask is that you wave your hand [TS]

  okay just exactly waving is all we need [TS]

  and i like that it was a monster that [TS]

  was again not really a monster like it [TS]

  was a it was not a sentient thinking [TS]

  being right it was a had a program to [TS]

  run sort of and it wasn't malevolent it [TS]

  was just doing what it was supposed to [TS]

  do and I kind of dug that [TS]

  yeah it's a little bit recycled from the [TS]

  empty child or something like that where [TS]

  it's this dress so just like in program [TS]

  half of mother's story of see I know I I [TS]

  wasn't adopted child but yes we could [TS]

  list them all but it it serves the [TS]

  purpose of being an interesting threat [TS]

  and you get the you get the engineer who [TS]

  helps the doctor and you get the scene [TS]

  at the at the locked door in the train [TS]

  that is pretty good and yeah it is your [TS]

  right Erica it is a this is a classic [TS]

  Doctor Who story if ever there was one [TS]

  they they in fact you might be able to [TS]

  watch it and point out the various [TS]

  cliffhanger breaks in the middle of it [TS]

  oh yeah and even down to like the feel [TS]

  of the stunt casting they used to do [TS]

  that every once in awhile and classic [TS]

  who bring in somebody who is really well [TS]

  known in this case it's frank skinner [TS]

  who is a very noted like huge hardcore [TS]

  doctor who fan who apparently was [TS]

  watching I think episode 2 of the sensor [TS]

  rights when he got the news he was going [TS]

  to be on Doctor Who like that's that is [TS]

  a hardcore doctor who fan and as soon as [TS]

  they knew that he was going to be in an [TS]

  apparently Jamie Matheson who also is a [TS]

  stand-up comedian like Frank Skinner is [TS]

  started like putting in some more lines [TS]

  and stuff for him so very much had to [TS]

  feel that this is the the throwaway [TS]

  character that you're supposed to be [TS]

  paying attention to he kind of got the [TS]

  spotlight and it felt classic to me [TS]

  although I will say my my younger son [TS]

  looked up every time the train you know [TS]

  you'd see the outside of the train and [TS]

  cya on the polar express yeah [TS]

  aside from that CGI space i just wonder [TS]

  i still wonder if it runs into the [TS]

  state's Titanic I like the fact that [TS]

  this is actually resolving in the end of [TS]

  Matt Smith's first yes [TS]

  a phone call about the Orient Express in [TS]

  space and in this episode what we're [TS]

  told is that this guy whoever has been [TS]

  trying to get him to come on this train [TS]

  has been trying to do it for a while now [TS]

  and he's never managed to make it there [TS]

  so we we've read cond that phone call [TS]

  back into the whole idea that it's beer [TS]

  and expressing space and we and we don't [TS]

  solve everything either to know like [TS]

  what kind of fun yeah whoohoo said Gus [TS]

  the computer on this path then that's [TS]

  just kind of was it Missy we never I [TS]

  don't know what I mean it doesn't make [TS]

  any sense i just it's out there it's [TS]

  whatever i don't know that we'll come [TS]

  back to it eventually [TS]

  and I hope it will be even half as fun [TS]

  as this episode because if so I will [TS]

  live green thumbs up there [TS]

  ok next is flatline I written by the [TS]

  same written by the author of money on [TS]

  the Orient Express [TS]

  although i think maybe in the opposite [TS]

  order but I don't ya flatline was first [TS]

  and they liked it so much they said here [TS]

  do another one so I'm going about [TS]

  expresses what he came up with like off [TS]

  the top of his head he didn't even have [TS]

  like a an idea what I think I think [TS]

  Steven Moffat gave him money on the [TS]

  Orient Express and said go right that [TS]

  whatever just figure it out but flatline [TS]

  he came he came within this is this is [TS]

  the the target shrinking the doctor is [TS]

  trapped inside there are two dimensional [TS]

  monsters and the end Clara has to sit on [TS]

  a chair to hide from on monsters and [TS]

  they get chased into a there's a there's [TS]

  an overpass and then there's some like [TS]

  the inside of a factory and subway [TS]

  tunnels and I you know I I spoiler alert [TS]

  i think maybe this is my favorite [TS]

  episode of the whole season [TS]

  flatline III I loved it I loved the [TS]

  monsters i love the jokes i love the [TS]

  fact that the doctor is an increasingly [TS]

  small box but he doesn't get any smaller [TS]

  and so he becomes like cousin it from [TS]

  the addams family not the monsters [TS]

  although I said the monsters on the TV [TS]

  podcast because I don't I can't tell the [TS]

  difference between those shows monster [TS]

  shows from a million years ago uh I I [TS]

  loved I loved so much about this i love [TS]

  the Clara becomes the doctor and she's [TS]

  got her own companion who was rigsy and [TS]

  there and they investigate all this and [TS]

  there's the giant hand comes up grabs [TS]

  people which like such a great shock I [TS]

  loved flatline I everything about yeah [TS]

  this was probably my absolute favorite [TS]

  of the season because it was it was [TS]

  different it was knew it was you know it [TS]

  had all the things that a good doctor [TS]

  who has but it did kept you guessing it [TS]

  kept you on the interview see I know the [TS]

  two-dimensional monsters are are [TS]

  effectively creepy especially because [TS]

  you don't understand their motivations [TS]

  even by the end of it like maybe they're [TS]

  just trying to figure stuff out [TS]

  I don't know but they was going to say [TS]

  hello yeah but it was creepy especially [TS]

  the one with all the like the the [TS]

  graffiti of all the people in the subway [TS]

  underpass in the subway tunnel [TS]

  yeah like that was it was pretty cool i [TS]

  liked it this was the one that freaked [TS]

  out the kids [TS]

  well like the reveal that we weren't [TS]

  sure who this could be okay they're in [TS]

  trouble communicating remind me of the [TS]

  star trek episode in which the you know [TS]

  the sub was a subspace creatures with [TS]

  the strange items that schism yeah [TS]

  that's a creepy episode that's a craving [TS]

  that never comes back later but it's [TS]

  remind you that it's like well maybe [TS]

  they're trying to communicate maybe they [TS]

  don't know what they're doing [TS]

  oh no I love it was always like to give [TS]

  him the benefit of the doubt [TS]

  oh you think they're really good no i [TS]

  don't but we gotta give him the benefit [TS]

  of the advantages and see that is very [TS]

  dr. Wright said that is that is him to a [TS]

  tee which is I want to listen to them [TS]

  but I don't they're gonna kill us you [TS]

  know if that I'm heist had been a [TS]

  pastiche of any genre other than heists [TS]

  this would be my friend and favorite of [TS]

  the series by just my my high school of [TS]

  overrides it [TS]

  yeah just a little bit not buy a whole [TS]

  lot though because I completely agree [TS]

  this was this is fantastic it was just [TS]

  it was so exciting and so different and [TS]

  I adored the interaction between Clara [TS]

  on the outside of the doctor on the [TS]

  inside especially knowing that they shot [TS]

  it completely separately because these [TS]

  were double-booked double Bank episodes [TS]

  which is why they're not the same seems [TS]

  very often and Clara being the doctor [TS]

  and the doctor being like don't you dare [TS]

  and she just [TS]

  oh she's an excellent doctor she's [TS]

  really really good [TS]

  this might be the only episode as much [TS]

  as I love the whole series with mild [TS]

  exceptions [TS]

  you know I've said this is the best [TS]

  sustained stretch of episodes i think in [TS]

  the new series for me but this was the [TS]

  only one where there wasn't anything [TS]

  that made me stop and go what what that [TS]

  didn't quite connect I mean this was [TS]

  just flat out flat out beautiful yes [TS]

  flat-out beautiful from being actually i [TS]

  have i have one one problem with this [TS]

  episode and that is I think the boneless [TS]

  is a stupid name [TS]

  yeah and I take issue with it i call [TS]

  them flatliners I i also might my [TS]

  complaint about this episode is that uh [TS]

  Clara receives a phone call from Danny [TS]

  while almost dying and one decides to [TS]

  answer it and to decides to lie and say [TS]

  no I'm fine there's nothing going on why [TS]

  would why why because my wish maybe she [TS]

  thought that would be her last chance to [TS]

  hear his voice yes maybe I don't know [TS]

  I'm just grasping at straws here they [TS]

  have a lot of awkward phone [TS]

  conversations this season I'm saying is [TS]

  one of two dimensional creature is [TS]

  trying to kill you [TS]

  donates the phone just now speaking from [TS]

  experience [TS]

  yeah just I think that happens that's a [TS]

  good 1i like that in fact Jamie Matheson [TS]

  the guy who wrote this and let me orient [TS]

  express i start to put him in line of [TS]

  like hey if you need if you need to [TS]

  bring writers back and if you need to [TS]

  think about future people who might be [TS]

  able to run the show say this name away [TS]

  because I don't know about showrunners [TS]

  showrunning is a very different skill [TS]

  set from writing good script so what I [TS]

  would do is say you highland you hire [TS]

  Neil cross of Luther fame to run the [TS]

  show and he brings on Jim Matheson says [TS]

  write me some episodes too and then I [TS]

  would those because those are the two [TS]

  fines for me of the last two years or [TS]

  meal cross and doing math and reading [TS]

  doctor who both bang-up jobs so you know [TS]

  yay [TS]

  time for a little break to talk about [TS]

  one of our sponsors it's Harry's you may [TS]

  know Harry's I've talked about in the [TS]

  past a great source for shaving stuff [TS]

  for men right now hopefully for women in [TS]

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  movember I don't really understand it [TS]

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  now I've told you about Harry's calm [TS]

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  are passionate about creating a better [TS]

  shaving experience for all men they [TS]

  bought a blade factory in Germany they [TS]

  liked it so much they bought the factory [TS]

  the blades are great i shave with [TS]

  Harry's blade every now every day now it [TS]

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  they have this amazing shaving lotion [TS]

  with light mint smell on it that i have [TS]

  come to love that is my go-to shaving [TS]

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  I love that little minty smell it's so [TS]

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  go to your check out your shopping cart [TS]

  and find that there's like ten dollars [TS]

  edit on shipping is free when you go to [TS]

  Harry's so go to Harry's dot-com now eh [TS]

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  I did oh thank you Harry's for [TS]

  sponsoring comfortable and giving me a [TS]

  good shave so next up is in the forests [TS]

  of the night by frank cottrell boyce [TS]

  noted children's author and the guy who [TS]

  did the london 2012 Summer Olympic [TS]

  program thing and this is the one where [TS]

  the there's a forest that appears [TS]

  overnight in London and Claire and Danny [TS]

  have a group of kids that they are [TS]

  the museum and they need to get them [TS]

  home and a little girl made comes and [TS]

  finds the doctor and artisans Clara sent [TS]

  me to to get you and what did everybody [TS]

  think of this this is another one of [TS]

  those fable kind of episodes great [TS]

  premise terrible execution [TS]

  I didn't know that frank cottrell boyce [TS]

  was a children's author before I saw it [TS]

  but I absolutely would have guessed [TS]

  after seeing it because it did have that [TS]

  kind of kids book sort of feeling which [TS]

  maybe could have been done well but it [TS]

  don't know I it was ok but I didn't like [TS]

  four [TS]

  four [TS]

  well I don't like kids in Doctor Who yes [TS]

  i know it's a kids show but mostly [TS]

  temple father's no I but I thought made [TS]

  was actually quite good like that LOL [TS]

  accuracy yeah she was excellent so I had [TS]

  no problem with her but then you have [TS]

  Danny and Clara being the worst teachers [TS]

  in the world are walking in front of all [TS]

  the kids and you're letting them wander [TS]

  behind them [TS]

  well it's not like they're in a forest [TS]

  she's just there was there was enough [TS]

  little stuff like that happening and [TS]

  then you have the the creatures the here [TS]

  which is apparently what they're called [TS]

  I didn't get that one ever showed its I [TS]

  was fine with they don't photosynthesize [TS]

  I i wouldn't say dislike this one but I [TS]

  think the fact that it was so pretty [TS]

  saved saved a lot for me because it was [TS]

  gorgeously set design cycle pick what [TS]

  did an amazing job and I think she [TS]

  focused direction was excellent too but [TS]

  the story itself was like not a lot [TS]

  happened and the dog didn't do anything [TS]

  the doctor hasn't done anything all [TS]

  season to be fair but but this this time [TS]

  he really doesn't do anything he just [TS]

  stands around [TS]

  yeah and it's doesn't really make it [TS]

  it's a plot with no sense so the trees [TS]

  have grown up to prevent protectors for [TS]

  a solar flare overnight because that [TS]

  happens and well I that more than their [TS]

  disappearance but but the the you know [TS]

  that that's the when you look at the [TS]

  hindsight of this episode right it's [TS]

  like oh no the trees we must get to the [TS]

  bottom of this [TS]

  oh they're fine they're just here to [TS]

  protect us all right and then when [TS]

  they're done they will vanish [TS]

  ok yes so that's that's the thing is [TS]

  like again a magical forest that grows [TS]

  overnight is a again i think if a [TS]

  fascinating beautiful idea in the realms [TS]

  of fantasy but the problem is it's [TS]

  Doctor Who so you have to try and [TS]

  explain they do try and explain in here [TS]

  and that goes horribly awry i feel like [TS]

  because it just doesn't it's too far out [TS]

  of the realm of this of the show in some [TS]

  ways the consequences of all of that [TS]

  like I mean buildings would be falling [TS]

  down left and right because of the root [TS]

  structures and like this my brain just [TS]

  went on a tangent about like thinking [TS]

  this would ruin everything these are [TS]

  magic trees tho much better [TS]

  implementation of same idea is in the [TS]

  the show legend of korra in which spirit [TS]

  plants start growing throughout a major [TS]

  city and it totally disrupt everything [TS]

  going on there [TS]

  I ask my kids what they thought of this [TS]

  season and they singled out this as the [TS]

  episode they liked the most [TS]

  as a witch i think maybe fits into what [TS]

  we said about the that it's frank [TS]

  cottrell boyce and he he is written [TS]

  he's written children's books and films [TS]

  about children and this and my kids [TS]

  liked it they like that the kids were in [TS]

  it they liked that there wasn't a big [TS]

  monster actually my son said I like that [TS]

  turns out the trees are friendly and so [TS]

  so I think that's interesting that this [TS]

  is this is maybe we always have this [TS]

  argument about like his doctor for kids [TS]

  is for adults and that the answer that's [TS]

  very American our argument I think [TS]

  because that the answer is this is a [TS]

  family show it's made for families it's [TS]

  made for all age ranges that it's not [TS]

  like most Americans shows that are made [TS]

  for kids or they're made for adults it's [TS]

  made for families [TS]

  this is maybe the most kids show you [TS]

  like kids concept episode i've seen in [TS]

  the series since it came back where I [TS]

  feel like this is a story for children [TS]

  and as a story for children i actually [TS]

  think it really works up until the last [TS]

  15 minutes when Danny and Clara decide [TS]

  that kids the kids would be sad if they [TS]

  escaped the dying planet and their [TS]

  parents died so we'll just stay here and [TS]

  all die because that is the most [TS]

  ridiculous way to take care of children [TS]

  ever now we're all just gonna stay here [TS]

  and die i know we could be saved but [TS]

  we'd be it will be a real bummer if the [TS]

  kids parents died and they didn't so [TS]

  we're all gonna die instead and that's [TS]

  when I got really angry and said what [TS]

  are you doing well you gotta I mean that [TS]

  they don't actually have kids themselves [TS]

  and that's the kind of decision I could [TS]

  see myself making being like you to do I [TS]

  want to have a one class full of of [TS]

  little kids to take care of we're going [TS]

  to grow up to be the last human beings [TS]

  in the universe that sounds like a [TS]

  horrible existence i think i'd rather [TS]

  stay on the planet with kids [TS]

  okay Jason and David the plan we had to [TS]

  send all of our kids to Canada for [TS]

  cancer huh [TS]

  I would take goodness mission [TS]

  accomplished Claire doesn't want to take [TS]

  care of the kids that's fine but to say [TS]

  that because the kids will be sad that [TS]

  their parents are dead i'm just going to [TS]

  stay here and let them die is a poor bit [TS]

  of care for the channels good point when [TS]

  when both of mine went what is the what [TS]

  is wrong with these people and put them [TS]

  on that get the target machine and it's [TS]

  like well how would you feel if you know [TS]

  like hell yeah I want to live in outer [TS]

  space go away [TS]

  ok I can handle yeah i think i think [TS]

  yeah repopulating the the species and [TS]

  being the last humans alive maybe beats [TS]

  being dead in the burned-up planet but [TS]

  of course it's obvious because there's [TS]

  that scene where the guys are setting [TS]

  fire to the trees ago nothing happens [TS]

  that is my other that was my other [TS]

  problem as soon as that happened I [TS]

  realized all the trees are the good guys [TS]

  here and I don't like being smarter than [TS]

  the doctor the doctor didn't figure that [TS]

  out [TS]

  no and I agree that it's a fun scene [TS]

  when he says I'm an idiot but it's like [TS]

  you know dude I I figured this out 20 [TS]

  minutes ago i'm ok with him learning it [TS]

  you know ten minutes after i do or five [TS]

  minutes after i do but literally half [TS]

  the episode goes by they say goodbye [TS]

  he goes oh well I guess it's over I'm [TS]

  gonna go watch the earth burn and then [TS]

  he goes oh fireproof trees like haha [TS]

  yeah but again my kids didn't have the [TS]

  problem with it which is why I think [TS]

  maybe this is an episode that works [TS]

  better if you're 10 or 12 then sand if [TS]

  you're 40 [TS]

  I i thought like i like i said i I'm [TS]

  torn on this I think the first 25 or 30 [TS]

  minutes it's kind of beautiful in its [TS]

  weird fantasy fable kind of way and then [TS]

  I feel like it falls apart so i'll say [TS]

  not as bad as killing mood but no mean [TS]

  it may be my second least favorite not [TS]

  that there were things I didn't like but [TS]

  it might be my second least favorite [TS]

  overall so in the original released [TS]

  version of this episode i forgot to take [TS]

  out a big blank space and people who got [TS]

  that episode got to be alone with their [TS]

  feelings [TS]

  perhaps yell back the podcast [TS]

  or ponder the meaning of life you [TS]

  however get to hear me say that if you [TS]

  hear this before [TS]

  roughly early December second 2014 you [TS]

  should go to the incomparable calm / [TS]

  shirt and find a link to our awesome [TS]

  random Trek t-shirts which are for sale [TS]

  for a limited time now back to the show [TS]

  ok we have come to the finale the [TS]

  two-part finale dark water and death in [TS]

  heaven wherein we we we meet Missy [TS]

  finally after her various appearances [TS]

  advertising her future appearance that's [TS]

  in other episodes it's it's not a story [TS]

  arc if all they're doing is reminding [TS]

  you that there's going to be a finale [TS]

  it's just an ad for the finale dark [TS]

  water and it doesn't happen we meet [TS]

  Missy we think that she's an android it [TS]

  turns out that she's just playing around [TS]

  with the doctor and that she's actually [TS]

  the master regenerated and because she's [TS]

  a proper time lady type she's now the [TS]

  mistress and there are cyber men there [TS]

  is some water that its purpose seems to [TS]

  be to hide that there are cyber men [TS]

  until it's cool to reveal that they are [TS]

  Cybermen which is cool [TS]

  there's no doubt about it and and i [TS]

  laughed at it because it's like I don't [TS]

  know why dark water exists but it's [TS]

  awfully cool when they drain the dark [TS]

  water and their cyber men in little pods [TS]

  like this again talking about Moffat [TS]

  retreading things too like the silence [TS]

  when they're in their little water pods [TS]

  like what's cool is there's monsters in [TS]

  water the genius of this is that [TS]

  eventually we find out that this is a [TS]

  plan of the master and that basically it [TS]

  gives you carte blanche to do whatever [TS]

  kind of crazy [TS]

  yatrik old dramatic thing you want [TS]

  because that's totally the way the [TS]

  master does well the master is the [TS]

  Masters the Joker right like is that [TS]

  he/she is a roving agent of chaos just [TS]

  there to be like crap [TS]

  whatever and that that is a kind of [TS]

  liberating thing to be able to do for a [TS]

  villain [TS]

  it's a very Joker moment in death in [TS]

  heaven when when she kills uh yeah one [TS]

  whose name I could never imagine as good [TS]

  as Windows bird does corp that she says [TS]

  I should probably keep you alive but [TS]

  that bananas and kills her [TS]

  it's like that was a very Joker kind of [TS]

  thing right yeah yeah I i liked the [TS]

  thing I liked about dark water is that I [TS]

  felt like this was actually as asinine [TS]

  master plots go this was actually pretty [TS]

  good [TS]

  this is like I know Cyberman are clever [TS]

  i can use the Cyberman and I can use [TS]

  like the part of the matrix and I can [TS]

  like make Cyberman and take you and take [TS]

  over the one that's like you know that's [TS]

  ridiculous master plot scope that's not [TS]

  bad and it also makes the decipherment [TS]

  slightly more interesting because I'm [TS]

  something interesting about them is [TS]

  using all the dead people is chris klem [TS]

  sleepy i think and I so I got some of [TS]

  this well for me and that they they were [TS]

  posting like press images and I did see [TS]

  the Cyberman before sure I figured it [TS]

  out but i did not figure out who Missy [TS]

  was until the end in that I you that [TS]

  struck me as a really good reveal even I [TS]

  i know a lot of people didn't like her [TS]

  as a character but I thought she gets [TS]

  much better here once once her [TS]

  motivations are revealed [TS]

  I also kind of dug that you know as sad [TS]

  as Danny's demise is I kind of liked [TS]

  that it was it was totally mundane like [TS]

  that you know he gets hit by a car like [TS]

  that it's really sad and but it's not [TS]

  the result of a monster it's not [TS]

  anything else and I thought Clara's sort [TS]

  of you know response to that and feeling [TS]

  like the the doctor kind of owed her to [TS]

  try and help fix this i thought was was [TS]

  pretty solid i like i love the moment [TS]

  where the cyber men the heat the [TS]

  artistic designs of the industrial [TS]

  building in which the Cybermen are held [TS]

  are the eyes the windows of the doors [TS]

  with the eyes of the Cybermen and opens [TS]

  the doors closed [TS]

  yeah that the Cyberman theme Murray gold [TS]

  Cyberman theme plays that made me laugh [TS]

  and laugh and laugh and Lauren didn't [TS]

  know the Cybermen were in this episode [TS]

  and when she got to that point she was [TS]

  like oh it was beautiful it was like [TS]

  yeah there I knew they were coming but [TS]

  and I i noticed the windows and photo [TS]

  that's pretty thankful one more coming [TS]

  but i but I had forgotten all about it [TS]

  so when that that moment had the perfect [TS]

  effect on me was they did exactly what [TS]

  it was supposed to do it was aight i [TS]

  have this problem that I think you guys [TS]

  talk about the last one was a was that [TS]

  they have this time with technology [TS]

  apparently can capture potentially if [TS]

  she's gonna be going across time [TS]

  everybody who's ever everybody who's [TS]

  ever die the clearances this is saved [TS]

  at the moment of death by them by the [TS]

  matrix it seems problematic that it's [TS]

  kind of like well that time that time [TS]

  where technology has it looks like a [TS]

  Dyson Sphere by the way on the inside [TS]

  its bigger that's time is a Dyson Sphere [TS]

  on the inside I it that they have all [TS]

  this and there's always people living [TS]

  there apparently and their traumatising [TS]

  them to make the race their emotions [TS]

  maybe and then it's like they're all [TS]

  gone for an all the Scout all the bodies [TS]

  and Earth are gone forever [TS]

  like what we I don't know all the dead [TS]

  bodies and the the that was mine that [TS]

  was my feeling was the UU recorded the [TS]

  consciousness of all these people who [TS]

  died in Earth's history you know various [TS]

  points in history like what happens to [TS]

  them are they all they all just turned [TS]

  into Cybermen and blew up that's really [TS]

  sad that's when except for except dark [TS]

  for the Brigadier who is now a Cyberman [TS]

  and presumably some others that if are [TS]

  going to form the cybersquad and protect [TS]

  the Earth now as the the the great cyber [TS]

  cyber protectors who are good at so much [TS]

  about the after language there's every [TS]

  soul that's ever lived that it was very [TS]

  interesting and not well developed [TS]

  because it was sort of a side plot y [TS]

  need to upload people and editor [TS]

  emotions visions copy the conscious the [TS]

  1i don't understand sigh then what's the [TS]

  matter can't you just reanimate them [TS]

  without a consciousness that would make [TS]

  things so much easier [TS]

  like what's the program like Cybermen [TS]

  why do you need them to be intelligent [TS]

  if you can tell them everything to do [TS]

  buy a bracelet i also understand what's [TS]

  the cyber manifesto right like what is [TS]

  the employees are like central [TS]

  programming i don't really get them like [TS]

  what is this thing the Daleks I get that [TS]

  will get the Cybermen they've they've [TS]

  evolved I think what evolved is maybe [TS]

  the right word more than an underrated [TS]

  Erica upgraded thank you thank you get [TS]

  home so so I think that their [TS]

  motivations kind of do change throughout [TS]

  the entirety of the series whereas with [TS]

  the Daleks it's very easy it's just kill [TS]

  everything that is not a Dalek whereas [TS]

  the Cybermen started out as just they [TS]

  were just regular people who didn't want [TS]

  to have to die early and then eventually [TS]

  realized we could get rid of these and [TS]

  pesky emotions too and it just sort of [TS]

  snowballed from there i think in this [TS]

  the answer most of the questions you [TS]

  guys just asked is it's the master [TS]

  because yeah it's ridiculous to to grab [TS]

  all of these you know these mines and [TS]

  stuff maybe maybe we could just [TS]

  how animate the Cybermen of course they [TS]

  wouldn't really be Cybermen they would [TS]

  just be weird robots it's not actually a [TS]

  Cyberman unless it has a dead person [TS]

  inside of it I think it's kind of right [TS]

  how it works out but but if you don't do [TS]

  that you don't get the doctor's [TS]

  attention if you aren't capturing every [TS]

  single person on earth if it's just a [TS]

  bunch of Cybermen that's that's not [TS]

  going to really grab him you know [TS]

  talking by the quadruple heartstrings [TS]

  you know but I will say this was the I [TS]

  mean I did like the idea that it was [TS]

  like okay I've crazy this enormous army [TS]

  that could actually take do anything in [TS]

  the universe including for good and it [TS]

  did remind me very nicely of last of the [TS]

  Time Lords where the Masters like I've [TS]

  had them build bombs and they're going [TS]

  to go to every planet through you know [TS]

  what wormholes and we're gonna blow up [TS]

  the entire universe I was like that is a [TS]

  pretty ambitious thing and it seems like [TS]

  you've actually accomplished young thing [TS]

  in your hand with a button and you could [TS]

  actually do it and you know usually [TS]

  doesn't get that far so this was kind of [TS]

  clever where it's like okay I have the [TS]

  best army in the universe all ready to [TS]

  go and here you go [TS]

  it's your stuff I giving it to the [TS]

  doctor i think is is the thing that [TS]

  makes this so just it's so it gets so [TS]

  much more interesting than if the [TS]

  Masters like yeah i was gonna I'm gonna [TS]

  kill everything now it's like now I'm [TS]

  I've less interested in the entire [TS]

  universe than i am and just screwing [TS]

  with you like that is kind of all I want [TS]

  to do that's pretty much classic the [TS]

  master and if its greatest kids grew [TS]

  history people so much so often he shows [TS]

  up and he doesn't really like his plans [TS]

  don't really make sense except to screw [TS]

  the doctors favorite planet like yeah [TS]

  you're gonna get rid of magna carta y [TS]

  like what does that get you [TS]

  well it's in English common law back [TS]

  hundreds of years to do that at the time [TS]

  work why do you care [TS]

  I was bugged by the way Danny goes out [TS]

  in the sense that i get the artfulness [TS]

  and also that it's a family show of not [TS]

  showing him getting like hit by a car or [TS]

  anything like that but it seems his [TS]

  death seems so mundane and boring we'll [TS]

  see i love that well yeah I'm saying I [TS]

  saying before I think I enjoyed that it [TS]

  was not a monster or something else that [TS]

  killed him because guess what it happens [TS]

  people get hit by cars and that's like [TS]

  it was really sad i think in that way [TS]

  because it feels me like unpreventable [TS]

  and kind of [TS]

  didn't quote meaningless and that to me [TS]

  is much sadder in some ways than like a [TS]

  heroic death for example or you know [TS]

  even getting killed by a monster and it [TS]

  was balanced by when he does finally go [TS]

  out he goes out with a tremendous speech [TS]

  in a graveyard and saving the saving the [TS]

  world when Amanda's with a bang and a [TS]

  great speech that that's very resonant [TS]

  with remembrance day which is right [TS]

  about when the episode fell right um [TS]

  which is a lovely touch [TS]

  I hated that speech i did i'm not saying [TS]

  the speech was great but it resonated [TS]

  well there but they filled out that Ark [TS]

  of the the doctor as the the person who [TS]

  manipulates other people into you know [TS]

  killing themselves are becoming weapons [TS]

  and in Danny makes a differentiation [TS]

  he's an officer I'm a soldier and they [TS]

  do it it does set up a nice scene at the [TS]

  end where ya are on the doctor lying to [TS]

  each other about how happy they are and [TS]

  how good everything but this is this is [TS]

  I feel like a representative of the [TS]

  series as a whole this whole this whole [TS]

  season where there is a really strong [TS]

  theme the character connections are [TS]

  really strong we see the doctors [TS]

  feelings about soldiers and what you [TS]

  know what his role is and is he a good [TS]

  man is he a bad man or you know what [TS]

  kind of man is he [TS]

  his relationship with Clara all of this [TS]

  comes to that that scene at the end [TS]

  where they are they're hugging and hugs [TS]

  alive because you can see the other [TS]

  person's face and they're both lying to [TS]

  each other and all of that all of that [TS]

  emotionally and character wise i feel [TS]

  like and theme wise for the whole season [TS]

  totally worked [TS]

  my problem with Devin heaven is that is [TS]

  that as we've mentioned for some other [TS]

  episodes I feel like lots of bizarre [TS]

  things are done to create those good [TS]

  character moments like to show your [TS]

  women are not showing your work in [TS]

  retrospect the thing that bugs me about [TS]

  the season and and it's and it is the [TS]

  thematic thing and I guess it kind of [TS]

  bugs me a little bit throughout but the [TS]

  whole thing you do we keep saying am ia [TS]

  good man my good man [TS]

  well we know he's going to find out that [TS]

  he's a good man because they're not [TS]

  suddenly going to make him not a good [TS]

  man but the question should have been [TS]

  why do you think I'm a good man and if [TS]

  he's asking that to the different people [TS]

  then that's something that he actually [TS]

  needs to find out that's something that [TS]

  we [TS]

  actually don't know why do you think [TS]

  he's a good man but to just have been [TS]

  saying why my good man or my good man [TS]

  that was like it but the resolution I [TS]

  feel like wasn't--oh yeah I am a good [TS]

  man the resolution was I am neither the [TS]

  good dollar course a bad Dalek Miami [TS]

  just somebody who meanders through and [TS]

  tries to help people along the way and [TS]

  that that's who I am and I'm not going [TS]

  to be the great savior of everybody and [TS]

  I'm not going to be the great villain [TS]

  i'm going to be this person who stumbles [TS]

  along and tries to do good which I like [TS]

  hobo which is you know where I had back [TS]

  in the day i like i like that that was [TS]

  the resolution that I'm not that guy I'm [TS]

  not the guy you want me to be [TS]

  who's gonna take this army and save [TS]

  everybody that's not who I am i that was [TS]

  that was the scene actually that made me [TS]

  cry wasn't the end it wasn't anything [TS]

  like when the doctor was having his [TS]

  revelation there in the graveyard I was [TS]

  sobbing sobbing what he said I'm an [TS]

  idiot when he said I just like i like [TS]

  that line the i'm an idiot but it's like [TS]

  building up for that like I'm 900 years [TS]

  old and not for the black guy you know i [TS]

  like it i would like in such a good [TS]

  undercut moment while he's found a [TS]

  little bit of the humility that the last [TS]

  two or three did not have right now it's [TS]

  really 11 the high Lord victorious [TS]

  yeah that's yeah yeah no i agree i went [TS]

  out a couple things the minor things [TS]

  that I thought a i love when Missy [TS]

  enters Mary Poppins style i think that [TS]

  was yes various so too i definitely like [TS]

  in that moment where Clara is gonna kill [TS]

  her and then she disappears in blue [TS]

  light and it's sort of suggested I mean [TS]

  it's basically said that the Brigadier [TS]

  kills her but at the same time [TS]

  come on my viewing companion I both like [TS]

  that was a transmat right she totally [TS]

  just teleported out of there [TS]

  yeah because the alert as returns a [TS]

  killer that photo [TS]

  nope everything's a trap master Steven [TS]

  Moffat said I think in the Doctor Who [TS]

  extra about that one that just doctor [TS]

  who has this long wonderful history with [TS]

  the master that at the end of all these [TS]

  episodes like especially in the eighties [TS]

  the master would be unequivocally killed [TS]

  he was absolutely completely dead and [TS]

  gone no question about it and then a few [TS]

  episodes later he comes back and there's [TS]

  no explanation except our scales [TS]

  that's it yeah that's a master that [TS]

  works that's perfect that is the kind of [TS]

  villain that he is like that is the [TS]

  cartoon you know pop villain like that [TS]

  you always feel like you got [TS]

  nope didn't get them sorry I so overall [TS]

  how do we feel about about this this [TS]

  season I I you know I I'm I've heard [TS]

  some Glenn talked about one of the best [TS]

  sustained runs of episodes in the new [TS]

  season what is a what do you all think i [TS]

  agree i think the I think the theme that [TS]

  that stuck out for me the most was the [TS]

  theme was kind of watching [TS]

  yes the doctor but Clara and watching [TS]

  her her lying through the entire thing [TS]

  which was very uncomfortable for me but [TS]

  with interesting to watch and then I [TS]

  loved how at the very end and we get [TS]

  that scene with them over the coffee [TS]

  table and they're lying to each other [TS]

  all her lies [TS]

  up until that point have very much been [TS]

  self-serving because she wants to keep [TS]

  living this double life and she's [TS]

  addicted to these adventures and she [TS]

  just wants to keep going [TS]

  whereas at the end her lie is a totally [TS]

  hundred ninety degrees the opposite [TS]

  she's lying for selfless reason because [TS]

  she wants to you know make the doctor [TS]

  happy let him go and live his life on [TS]

  the Gallifrey that she thinks he's found [TS]

  in and she's willing to to suck it up [TS]

  and and and take one you know just for [TS]

  the sake of friendship so I I appreciate [TS]

  that they they managed to turn the lying [TS]

  around which bothered me so much and [TS]

  make it kind of beautiful [TS]

  oh yeah I loved watching her grow and [TS]

  evolve from where she was last year and [TS]

  22 actually having a personality and [TS]

  actually having a china and actually [TS]

  becoming the doctor at 1.42 points43 [TS]

  points there was just lovely [TS]

  mostly a lot of my twitter friends [TS]

  talking about this season said they're [TS]

  like Oh Clara is finally a person how [TS]

  delightful even feel like a particular [TS]

  episode had whatever the same thing with [TS]

  me that's my same reaction is she got [TS]

  angry with him she pushed him she went [TS]

  to the edge [TS]

  she did terrible things and we didn't [TS]

  even talk about because we talked about [TS]

  that in TV episode but the the you know [TS]

  the volcano scene was terrifying i was [TS]

  actually a solder that's the one that [TS]

  got me sobbing is it was so wrong [TS]

  and then he just walked out of his [TS]

  acknowledged install a dream you try to [TS]

  fool me i followed you and and then the [TS]

  I'm not oh that was god that was amazing [TS]

  and I don't know that the rest of the [TS]

  two-parter held up as well as it could [TS]

  have to that but that to me struck as [TS]

  emotionally true to the center of the [TS]

  the show and I'm not sure I've seen a [TS]

  moment like that except maybe in the end [TS]

  of time there were some moments a little [TS]

  bit like that they were just so raw [TS]

  well one of the things that scene really [TS]

  got me thinking about was it would have [TS]

  almost been more interesting if and [TS]

  again going back to to my theme of how [TS]

  every episode kind of flipped something [TS]

  that we're used to it would have been [TS]

  really interesting if it ended up with [TS]

  the two of them facing off instead of [TS]

  him and and Missy the master you know [TS]

  that would have been something we [TS]

  haven't seen before I kind of liked it i [TS]

  mean i enjoyed the whole season I [TS]

  thought that for the most part this was [TS]

  so much better quality wise than [TS]

  somebody the last few seasons like [TS]

  certainly on average and I did like that [TS]

  out there were a number of standout [TS]

  episodes i think the winner overall for [TS]

  me just in terms of like this entire [TS]

  season is the as we discuss the [TS]

  character arcs Derek's individually both [TS]

  the doctor and Clara individually and [TS]

  there are together i really enjoyed the [TS]

  i really enjoyed this arc incarnation of [TS]

  the doctor and I liked matt smith and I [TS]

  like david tennant like Chris [TS]

  Frankenstein I enjoyed all of them in [TS]

  different ways but this feels very [TS]

  distinct I like the fact that he's Petty [TS]

  and that he's human and that he makes [TS]

  mistakes and he's you know like all [TS]

  these things kind of he has less [TS]

  pleasant sides and I think that's nice [TS]

  that we get a chance to see more of that [TS]

  in this doctor because it makes him feel [TS]

  more fleshed out and i enjoyed Clara's [TS]

  development into a character and for [TS]

  right from the start like in that first [TS]

  episode just the two of them together [TS]

  their chemistry is so much better and [TS]

  she has so much more agency and so much [TS]

  more stuff to do and the fact that she [TS]

  is basically treated like an equal which [TS]

  i don't think most of the companions are [TS]

  and I think that worked worked really [TS]

  really well and yeah the while the [TS]

  individual plot points i think felt fell [TS]

  down into a couple points i think you [TS]

  know overall I would say this season is [TS]

  a success i think i'm going to enjoy [TS]

  this a lot more rewatching it now that [TS]

  I've seen where it was going [TS]

  because and actually as far as clothes i [TS]

  actually liked Clara better in Syria 7b [TS]

  and I know I'm in the minority on that [TS]

  but I idea idea who I would because I I [TS]

  just my best far as favorite goes I [TS]

  judge my favorite companions based on [TS]

  the ones that I just feel emotionally [TS]

  connected to in the people that I would [TS]

  want to hang out with i would love to [TS]

  hang out with Clarence series seven [TS]

  because she seemed like a real [TS]

  down-to-earth cool person when she turns [TS]

  into a control freak she becomes less of [TS]

  a ax but less of that for me but i do [TS]

  think that she was still very [TS]

  interesting to watch and I still think [TS]

  she's a fantastic companion and I do [TS]

  agree that she becomes an equal with the [TS]

  doctor and that is something i am [TS]

  definitely not used to seeing very often [TS]

  I mean it has happened you get like you [TS]

  know your Romano's and stuff every once [TS]

  in awhile but boy it's been awhile and [TS]

  we it was it was quite a ride so I think [TS]

  now knowing the direction that [TS]

  everything was going it will be less [TS]

  uncomfortable for me to watch those [TS]

  scenes between them like they're [TS]

  fighting because that's that's the kind [TS]

  of relationship that they have and [TS]

  that's what I know people have talked [TS]

  about how that's what they were trying [TS]

  to do with a six doctor and peri and it [TS]

  just never really worked out because for [TS]

  one thing they didn't have time and for [TS]

  another thing that was a terrible [TS]

  American accent in there that just [TS]

  didn't work so we remind people we did [TS]

  we did our episode last year about [TS]

  season 7 and and didn't have a lot of [TS]

  positive thoughts about it felt like [TS]

  this show we're gonna like I didn't [TS]

  listen [TS]

  yeah yeah it was and I was looking back [TS]

  on that list of episodes from last [TS]

  season I thought yeah you know there [TS]

  were some ok episodes but i think i [TS]

  think on average of the season was was [TS]

  much better [TS]

  I i I'm not sure whether there were any [TS]

  like super amazing classic episodes this [TS]

  season although i really like flatline [TS]

  yes I like listen I don't think that [TS]

  this season will ever be comfort [TS]

  watching for me and then that's kind of [TS]

  what it boils down to for me as far as [TS]

  comparing seven seven and eight is that [TS]

  for me doctor who has always sort of [TS]

  been a comfort show and I think it's [TS]

  wonderful when we get a series like this [TS]

  that is just really really consistently [TS]

  well crafted from beginning to end and [TS]

  challenging [TS]

  stuff but that's not the kind of doctor [TS]

  who i'm going to go back to and watch [TS]

  again and again for comfort 7 series 7 a [TS]

  and b's is like that's what I'm going to [TS]

  return to when I just want to sit down [TS]

  and enjoy something i'll be watching the [TS]

  power of three [TS]

  yeah I i well I like that was my second [TS]

  favorite social classes so I i would I [TS]

  totally get what you're saying I think [TS]

  one of the things that I like about this [TS]

  season is that it was challenging and [TS]

  different and dark and trying to take [TS]

  Doctor Who in a place that it it hadn't [TS]

  been recently at least if not if not [TS]

  ever been been recently and that I said [TS]

  this on the TV podcast i think if you [TS]

  took all the credit away and you I had [TS]

  no knowledge of who was making the show [TS]

  i would assume it's a completely [TS]

  different production team this season [TS]

  your season pass because it doesn't feel [TS]

  like the same show and and I give full [TS]

  credit to Steven Moffat and everybody [TS]

  else involved in the in the in the show [TS]

  of trying to do something different [TS]

  because somebody on Twitter and I forget [TS]

  exactly who was said what show in its [TS]

  eighth year let alone its 51st year does [TS]

  something this different with its format [TS]

  and I I even though I don't necessarily [TS]

  agree with all of it [TS]

  I up you gotta give him credit for doing [TS]

  something different shaking it up and [TS]

  making it feel like this is a show that [TS]

  can keep going and keeps surprising us [TS]

  and not just going over the same [TS]

  territory over and over again even [TS]

  though even though like Erica says i'm [TS]

  not sure i would consider this the [TS]

  comfort watching of some previous [TS]

  seasons i really appreciate the craft [TS]

  the artistry the the work on the story [TS]

  arcs the Moffett trying to go against [TS]

  some of his tendencies and do things a [TS]

  little bit differently even if it didn't [TS]

  always work i really love the fact that [TS]

  it was trying and mostly more often than [TS]

  not succeeding so that that that that's [TS]

  why I think it was a creative success [TS]

  and also i love that they were trying to [TS]

  do something different from from the [TS]

  previous seasons i mean i've already [TS]

  gone back and we watched episodes from [TS]

  the series more than I've watched [TS]

  anything from seven with the exception [TS]

  of of the anniversary episode that when [TS]

  I've seen Tom and but you know it will i [TS]

  will happily watch robot again I will [TS]

  happily watch flatliners and mummy and [TS]

  and the caretaker you know and listen I [TS]

  may not watch all of them again but I [TS]

  just I loved those episodes where you [TS]

  know most of the Flatliners by the way [TS]

  is Kiefer Sutherland and Kevin hookin [TS]

  that you mean flatline it in a doctor [TS]

  and julia roberts amazing [TS]

  yeah it was pretty good and pretty good [TS]

  yeah yeah [TS]

  so before we at before we go up because [TS]

  we spent a lot of time on this which is [TS]

  great but we do need to go Peter Capaldi [TS]

  he's been a doctor [TS]

  we should talk about him a little bit I [TS]

  he isn't great and and we feel like he's [TS]

  the doctor i mean i-i ii isn't he great [TS]

  let's just agree with me [TS]

  yes it is me up i would love love you [TS]

  just stayed until he was tired of that [TS]

  we never gets tired of it [TS]

  actually I i can't remember if it was on [TS]

  very or just amongst friends [TS]

  somebody was saying that they they hope [TS]

  that he sticks around like as long as [TS]

  Tom Baker did for like seven years until [TS]

  he just doesn't give a crap anymore and [TS]

  starts just you know doing the Tom Baker [TS]

  thing and acting however he wants and [TS]

  not trying because i would love to see [TS]

  what that looks like [TS]

  are you sure he's not doing that already [TS]

  I don't I kind of feel like there's a [TS]

  lot of liberties left for him to take I [TS]

  don't know it's now the eyebrows man the [TS]

  address of the i press know it's great i [TS]

  i i i don't know where they go from here [TS]

  I think that's the next question is is a [TS]

  well Jason I gotta go international [TS]

  yeah because we met we did leave out the [TS]

  last the last five seconds or school the [TS]

  show [TS]

  yes so so the credits roll and if you [TS]

  turned off the TV you missed hey a [TS]

  certain gentleman who does that what [TS]

  kind of he didn't know I would you know [TS]

  I what a great but I did like that they [TS]

  broke out of the credits so yes all [TS]

  that's ya allah and then they should [TS]

  credit for Nick Frost was perfect [TS]

  yes jack ross and franz our class i love [TS]

  nick frost so much as a good and he says [TS]

  no you would get into this I mean he's [TS]

  talking to the audience and the doctor [TS]

  at the same time and so he's going to be [TS]

  Santa Claus in the Christmas special [TS]

  which is hilarious [TS]

  although I thought the the clip they [TS]

  released for children in need which does [TS]

  not look hilarious well and I don't know [TS]

  if Jenna Coleman is is is coming back [TS]

  next year but we know Peter Capaldi's [TS]

  come yeah [TS]

  I there are there are lots of rumours [TS]

  she's she's appearing at a couple of [TS]

  conventions next year which usually is a [TS]

  thing that doesn't happen yeah we're [TS]

  still on the show but I'm you know [TS]

  Steven Moffat is such a kg bastard but I [TS]

  wonder I wonder if he's just sending her [TS]

  out to do these conventions full well [TS]

  knowing that she's not leaving the show [TS]

  just to troll fandom because I think [TS]

  that's his favorite pastime he does like [TS]

  that well he's a fan he totally gets it [TS]

  right and that's what makes him [TS]

  dangerous is that he knows all of our [TS]

  tricks because he's one of us and he [TS]

  uses are only his powers against us [TS]

  that's his diabolical plan [TS]

  Steven Moffat is steven moffat coming [TS]

  back I guess he is [TS]

  oh yeah he he was talking about the [TS]

  plans he had for series 9 at the [TS]

  beginning of series 8 so all right [TS]

  they've already got writers lined up i [TS]

  have some writers lineup for next year [TS]

  i'll tell you who's not probably not [TS]

  coming back is Danny pink dizzying oh [TS]

  sorry to see reduces who soon okay so [TS]

  here's what's gonna happen now I'm we're [TS]

  going to wait very patiently by our [TS]

  televisions for another month and then [TS]

  there will be one more new episode of [TS]

  Doctor Who to tide us over until the end [TS]

  of next summer [TS]

  now we are going after that i really [TS]

  hope i really hope that the doctors you [TS]

  know he's his revelation that he's just [TS]

  an idiot with the box i hope that we do [TS]

  get that sort of thing [TS]

  yeah maybe not a big heavy arc [TS]

  throughout the entire next series maybe [TS]

  we just get to see the doctor going on [TS]

  adventures and space [TS]

  yes I got one phrase lottery in there [TS]

  too no more networks in cala some gala [TS]

  fears body you're gonna have our sorry [TS]

  this is always going on and always going [TS]

  to be a narc its serial drama so if you [TS]

  if you enjoy listening to us talk about [TS]

  Doctor Who well first off you enjoyed [TS]

  listening to people talking about Doctor [TS]

  Who you should listen to Verity Erica's [TS]

  podcast with me yes we are people you [TS]

  are people with interesting and smart [TS]

  things to say about Doctor Who no less [TS]

  Shyne are devoted entirely to Doctor Who [TS]

  if you would like to to listen to more [TS]

  of what we've said about Doctor Who this [TS]

  year once again too [TS]

  into the TV podcast you can also go to [TS]

  the incomparable calm / work / dr. dash [TS]

  who and see a list of all the doctor who [TS]

  episodes we've ever done on the [TS]

  uncomfortable or the spin-off episodes [TS]

  there's even a podcast feed you can [TS]

  subscribe to just our doctor who [TS]

  episodes if you're that crazy about [TS]

  Doctor Who I know it spreads pretty far [TS]

  out there but if you do that you'll also [TS]

  hear our christmas episode which will be [TS]

  on the TV podcast we will we will [TS]

  convene again at Christmas and talk [TS]

  about the Christmas special but until [TS]

  then i would like to close the TARDIS [TS]

  now closed up the the little tiny Titus [TS]

  with a hand sticking out of it and thank [TS]

  my guests and Fleischmann thank you for [TS]

  confusing me with all of your many [TS]

  references as always it's a bit of to me [TS]

  sis to meet you Jason and I that's good [TS]

  and or bad Dan Morgan thank you for [TS]

  being here [TS]

  it was a distinct pleasure i'm glad it [TS]

  was distinct David lord thank you [TS]

  group hug but I don't trust no no the [TS]

  truck the hulk is alive hugs all I get [TS]

  away and air cans and thank you so much [TS]

  for bringing your depth of Doctor Who [TS]

  knowledge to us savages here and the [TS]

  incomparable thank you for having I [TS]

  tried I tried not to take any tangent [TS]

  that went too deep there are many other [TS]

  podcast where you could go as deep as [TS]

  you like with this [TS]

  yep so true and that's it until [TS]

  Christmas when we'll talk on the TV [TS]

  podcast about Doctor Who and until next [TS]

  year when we wrap up next season [TS]

  Wow for now we have to say goodbye so [TS]

  thank you to everybody out there for [TS]

  listen to be uncomfortable we will see [TS]

  you next time [TS]

  wait a minute Jason we can't end it like [TS]

  this [TS]

  can't right now yes actually you know [TS]

  Glenn's not okay and neither are you [TS]

  okay sorry [TS]

  haha waiting for going to be okay but we [TS]

  will be here a long time [TS]

  and.and see I don't get it [TS]