11: Frankenstein Car Monster


  I already costing blew my nose once [TS]

  enjoy ok so i have to topic ideas [TS]

  one of them is what I kept trying to do [TS]

  last weekend we never got around to it [TS]

  which is automatic and so I figured we [TS]

  could start there if I don't have any [TS]

  complaints or request for follow-up yeah [TS]

  I think that's great i mean i-i think [TS]

  the big problem with this so what we're [TS]

  talking about for the listeners is it [TS]

  automatic calm right as their site i [TS]

  believe that's right and it's it's a [TS]

  it's a set of his wife only your iphone [TS]

  and android is both I don't know to be [TS]

  honest I think maybe the iphone first [TS]

  but the android coming soon something [TS]

  anyway it's at least an iphone app [TS]

  platform that includes a nap and [TS]

  services that that a mimic or replace a [TS]

  lot of premium car services such as [TS]

  built-in navigation the roadside [TS]

  assistance and things like that that [TS]

  usually you have to get as part of your [TS]

  car if you want it all built in and you [TS]

  know we discussed previously about [TS]

  aftermarket navigation systems versus [TS]

  stock navigation systems and paying for [TS]

  navigation and this looks like a pretty [TS]

  cool alternative i guess the problem i [TS]

  have with that or we're discussing it [TS]

  right now is that none of us have ever [TS]

  tried to cut some out yet right [TS]

  you don't really know how good it is why [TS]

  should that stop us though [TS]

  what's wrong with you know I don't [TS]

  really understand why this is awesome [TS]

  and and I I want to like it but I don't [TS]

  see what this really gets me in that and [TS]

  I don't think that's me being the newly [TS]

  reformed snob jerk BMW driver even for [TS]

  the subaru I don't know what this really [TS]

  buys me in the sense that microphone [TS]

  already had navigation my phone doesn't [TS]

  currently have the ability to read check [TS]

  engine light codes or whatever which is [TS]

  very neat so you can diagnose engine [TS]

  problems because the way automatic works [TS]

  is you plug this little [TS]

  bluetooth-enabled box into the 000 BD is [TS]

  that right on board diagnostics obd2 [TS]

  port that's typically around that around [TS]

  your left knee if you drive on the [TS]

  correct side of the road as the driver [TS]

  in anyway so you plug this this box into [TS]

  the obd2 port it beams things via [TS]

  bluetooth I think low energy to your [TS]

  phone and so you can do things like to [TS]

  see what check engine lights are being [TS]

  thrown or what other coach being thrown [TS]

  it will tell you how good your mileage [TS]

  and what [TS]

  you drive like a jerk like Marco and I [TS]

  or if you drive like a human like John [TS]

  and to be honest I think that is that [TS]

  seems to be the thing that that i got [TS]

  from their website that their most [TS]

  excited about is telling you how to [TS]

  drive more responsibly from an [TS]

  economical perspective and I just don't [TS]

  care and i know it certainly would make [TS]

  a huge difference but I just don't think [TS]

  that that really is is fixing a problem [TS]

  i have in my life but maybe i missed the [TS]

  boat I don't know what you guys glean [TS]

  from this I i think you're right i mean [TS]

  and yeah I guess I probably should have [TS]

  had the website open when i made my [TS]

  first opening statements now i do have [TS]

  it but I'm being reminded of all this [TS]

  stuff that yeah it does seem like I mean [TS]

  there's a lot of other interesting stuff [TS]

  here [TS]

  things like the you know the the obd ODB [TS]

  ODB is a rapper obd2 port okay isn't he [TS]

  dead anyway there's a there's a lot here [TS]

  and I think a lot of it could be very [TS]

  compelling [TS]

  so you know it has it says that calls [TS]

  for helping a crash or how about the [TS]

  roadside assistance kind of thing that a [TS]

  lot of course I've built in but you know [TS]

  it has in this app and we should say the [TS]

  app and it's currently they say [TS]

  pre-order the little dongle 470 bucks [TS]

  and I guess it just includes the app [TS]

  services for an additional charge maybe [TS]

  or is there a subscription [TS]

  I think it says there's no subscription [TS]

  somewhere but yeah that is correct i [TS]

  could change the future who knows but so [TS]

  far it looks like it's 70 bucks one time [TS]

  which of course is dramatically cheaper [TS]

  than buying these things for your car [TS]

  stock from the manufacturer in almost [TS]

  every case is a dramatically cheaper so [TS]

  it has stuff like that it has like a [TS]

  find your car when it's parked kind of [TS]

  thing like there's a bunch of services [TS]

  like this but you're right that all the [TS]

  stuff that uses the obd port with the [TS]

  exception of telling me engine error [TS]

  codes which honestly doesn't happen very [TS]

  often so it's something it's not [TS]

  not that useful to me all the stuff [TS]

  about monitoring your mileage and how [TS]

  how economically and responsible you're [TS]

  driving i would also want to turn all [TS]

  that off because you know i'm not one of [TS]

  those like hypermiling hybrid people [TS]

  like a if you if you're really into that [TS]

  then this could be really useful to you [TS]

  but I i think between the three of us [TS]

  obviously kc you and I will [TS]

  not at all be interested in that because [TS]

  if you're interested in gas mileage [TS]

  generally don't buy BMWs at all and and [TS]

  certainly the way we drive them is not [TS]

  particularly fuel-efficient know John [TS]

  you seem like you actually care about [TS]

  this stuff so would you actually use [TS]

  this for your car and would you would [TS]

  you actually care about the the the [TS]

  mileage evaluations and telling you when [TS]

  you're being a good driver or not [TS]

  well it about Casey was the one who like [TS]

  writes down how much gas he puts in does [TS]

  all this meticulous record keeping [TS]

  wasn't he the yes the book editor [TS]

  sometimes at so it's obvious i don't [TS]

  care about I don't measure my mileage at [TS]

  all like I mean I care about it and that [TS]

  i liked not having to fill up the tank [TS]

  very often and you know I by relatively [TS]

  high mileage cars but I'm not sitting [TS]

  there figuring out what my mileage is so [TS]

  I really care but like when I look at [TS]

  this did I think of two things one the [TS]

  first thing i was thinking of us would I [TS]

  would I buy this because i mean that's [TS]

  like that's cheap like 70 bucks you know [TS]

  so what my wife's already got an iphone [TS]

  so that's not like you know you gotta [TS]

  buy an eight-hundred-dollar phone the [TS]

  cost two thousand dollars of a [TS]

  three-year already got that stupid phone [TS]

  so you know it's 70 bucks right and the [TS]

  one feature that it has that I thought [TS]

  that she would actually use is the thing [TS]

  where you find your car [TS]

  that's not to imply that she loses their [TS]

  cars in parking lots but it's just you [TS]

  know you maybe even i would use it [TS]

  occasionally I come out to a big parking [TS]

  lot in pay attention to where I parked [TS]

  it you know I didn't know the general [TS]

  area it's nice to have pinpointed but [TS]

  this whole website in this entire [TS]

  product just the reason i look at it and [TS]

  I get simultaneously excited and [TS]

  disgusted is that like this i'm not [TS]

  assuming it's like a start-up it's got a [TS]

  bunch of people some good iOS [TS]

  programmers the site looks nice the [TS]

  shots of the UI they show you it looks [TS]

  like looks like a nice iOS app right you [TS]

  know we know what we know what iOS apps [TS]

  look like these days it's like is a [TS]

  stunned by competent people why is it [TS]

  that these five guys here with this [TS]

  website web designer some iOS [TS]

  programmers marketing guide like why is [TS]

  it that they are doing this and it is [TS]

  car manufacturers with huge tables of [TS]

  highly paid presumably intelligent [TS]

  employees are not why is this not why is [TS]

  the third party products so like there's [TS]

  no reason every Carmen you [TS]

  actually entire world should already [TS]

  have something that was more than this [TS]

  thing does like building that stupid [TS]

  thing [TS]

  bluetooth thing that connects to your [TS]

  the the diagnostic port put a bunch of [TS]

  apps on your website i mean you know in [TS]

  case you're talking about the thing use [TS]

  for the BMW to send the stuff or [TS]

  whatever but like it's like they have no [TS]

  idea what they're doing over there the [TS]

  carmaker's you know it does not rocket [TS]

  science here that the 5 iOS people who [TS]

  made this application are not super [TS]

  geniuses are just confident right now I [TS]

  feel like this this just emphasizes to [TS]

  me how far behind the curve all [TS]

  carmakers are in anything having to do [TS]

  with electronic stuff because the [TS]

  technology is there to do so many [TS]

  obvious things I mean who's got the [TS]

  onstar GM is that damn thing up like [TS]

  they're so proud of onstar and how the [TS]

  person helps you and he's like that's [TS]

  like I look at that it looks like [TS]

  nineteen sixties tech looks like you [TS]

  know pre apollo mission NASA like oh [TS]

  great you're real proud of that and [TS]

  everything you know we've moved on we've [TS]

  got these pretty amazing devices in our [TS]

  pockets could do incredible things like [TS]

  this is an aftermarket hack sing so you [TS]

  stupid car manufacturers you don't even [TS]

  have to pretty smart in the freaking car [TS]

  you need to put this little dog will [TS]

  probably cost him 25 bucks to make and [TS]

  then just read these in iOS app and you [TS]

  get all these features which you may or [TS]

  may not be interested in but I feel like [TS]

  this should be like the baseline that of [TS]

  course when you get your car you [TS]

  download the app port and you get all [TS]

  these features like of course you can [TS]

  control the entire media center we think [TS]

  it all your mileage information and find [TS]

  your car when it's parking just why [TS]

  wouldn't you have the way you don't have [TS]

  it because car makers are pretty good at [TS]

  making cars but terrible at anything [TS]

  having to do with software it kind of [TS]

  reminds me of the you know the cs worse [TS]

  processing software thing that I roads [TS]

  like so many products that didn't used [TS]

  to be about software inevitably will be [TS]

  about software and if the companies that [TS]

  make those products don't get a clue [TS]

  about the software someone else is going [TS]

  to do it for them and/or we're just [TS]

  going to be stuck with crap for a long [TS]

  time or they're going to try to [TS]

  themselves and and do a terrible job [TS]

  like all these you know in car you is [TS]

  that we talked about everything that are [TS]

  not up to snuff so I give thumbs up to [TS]

  the automatic guys for doing something [TS]

  that the carmaker should have done but I [TS]

  get funds down to the world for making [TS]

  it that so that this has to be a thing [TS]

  that exists as an outside third party [TS]

  thing and we're all excited about it [TS]

  that's how pathetic the internals of [TS]

  cars are these days [TS]

  yeah I couldn't agree with you more [TS]

  about that it is [TS]

  it's really sad that that there isn't [TS]

  more manufacturers support and i will [TS]

  say that that one thing that that I've [TS]

  note that I've done with the BMW that's [TS]

  very cool is if you have that was a BMW [TS]

  Assist which is there knock off on start [TS]

  I think like you said i might mention [TS]

  this previously but they actually have a [TS]

  very simple app or at least it doesn't [TS]

  do much with my car but I can unlock and [TS]

  lock the doors remotely and I can see [TS]

  where the car is as long as with him [TS]

  I'm within a mile of the car and it is [TS]

  pretty darn accurate to the point that i [TS]

  could get within a couple of parking [TS]

  spots of where the car isn't so that's [TS]

  pretty nice though the thing that I [TS]

  think is kind of a Miss on automatic is [TS]

  as a cornered and thus is a not as a non [TS]

  regular person I i think it would be [TS]

  really cool if they had a very similar [TS]

  slick UI but will show you real-time [TS]

  gauges like it's been a car with the [TS]

  turbocharger maybe you can see a boost [TS]

  gauge or maybe you could see oil [TS]

  temperature something like that and yeah [TS]

  these are the things you could do if you [TS]

  are the actual car maker with the BF is [TS]

  more company has to just use that stupid [TS]

  diagnostic port which was not designed [TS]

  for this purpose but if you're making [TS]

  the car like you can do anything you [TS]

  could be four sensors and you could get [TS]

  cameras into a panorama to provide a [TS]

  pseudo 3d view of your car relation to [TS]

  other travelling like the stuff we're [TS]

  talking about here it's not like amazing [TS]

  new technology that they would have to [TS]

  develop on their own it's like existing [TS]

  technology used in applications that [TS]

  people already using by or existing game [TS]

  technology and all most of it is not [TS]

  safety-related so you wouldn't have all [TS]

  these sort of legal things just kind of [TS]

  like oh nice to have I want to see my [TS]

  old temperature i want to be able to [TS]

  drag out a little you know gauge cluster [TS]

  thing and stick to my you know it [TS]

  doesn't have to be an ipod can be your [TS]

  own screen or whatever to but I'm saying [TS]

  like take the easy way out car guys are [TS]

  you so you can make an iphone so you [TS]

  can't figure out how to make a screen [TS]

  with bluetooth and Wi-Fi and a good GPU [TS]

  and cpu and operates sorry that's too [TS]

  much for your fine just let us use the [TS]

  devices we already own right some nice [TS]

  app store you can you get five go to San [TS]

  Francisco scoop up five people and you [TS]

  know who know you know that UI kit and [TS]

  give them a bunch of money like I just [TS]

  think of all the money they spend on [TS]

  every other part of the car making [TS]

  process and somehow it it's left to [TS]

  these automatic people to show them like [TS]

  despite your best [TS]

  Fritz carmakers we can still do things [TS]

  that people are amazed that just by [TS]

  sticking it stupid Don go into the sport [TS]

  that was never designed for this purpose [TS]

  what a lot of it i think is is is their [TS]

  desire you know we see this a lot in the [TS]

  electronics business it's each [TS]

  manufacturers desire to distinguish [TS]

  themselves through their software and [TS]

  their features the last thing I would [TS]

  want would be to enable something like [TS]

  automatic on a big scale which would [TS]

  then give the exact same luxuries and [TS]

  the exact same features to any car [TS]

  regardless of what brand it is that did [TS]

  you know they don't want that they want [TS]

  their cars to run their proprietary [TS]

  stuff so they have an advantage over the [TS]

  other makers of course that's what I'm [TS]

  saying I'm saying they should they [TS]

  should be making like they should be [TS]

  competing on the software that comes [TS]

  with their cars like oh I was going to [TS]

  get you know a tard about you know the [TS]

  the nissan has much better apps and [TS]

  everything like that should be like when [TS]

  you buy like a Mercedes or BMW which [TS]

  should have awesome apps in the app [TS]

  should be like for you know maybe maybe [TS]

  Mercedes can have apps that only run the [TS]

  iphone 5 because that's a reasonable [TS]

  assumption if you're buying Mercedes [TS]

  right whereas like the toes would have [TS]

  to have android apps are you don't even [TS]

  like they can distinguish based on price [TS]

  discrimination and who's likely to have [TS]

  a device or maybe the very little place [TS]

  cards don't require you to have a [TS]

  expensive smartphone and they haven't [TS]

  been some sort of built-in screen like [TS]

  it should be like every other aspect of [TS]

  the car you don't get the fancy super [TS]

  engine you don't get the nice interior [TS]

  but when you go up to the high class [TS]

  once I want to get awesome stuff no I [TS]

  haven't seen these BMW apps that Casey [TS]

  has but like I i'm just picturing in my [TS]

  head and I'm imagining they do not look [TS]

  even as good as these like potentially [TS]

  just knocked up screenshots outside of [TS]

  it [TS]

  no not at all they're terrible yeah in [TS]

  other words you're correct everything I [TS]

  do not look good [TS]

  yeah and why is that it's not just BMW [TS]

  not have enough money to go charging off [TS]

  for their cars like they can't afford to [TS]

  hire you know one twenty-one-year-old [TS]

  hipster to write their app it it's not [TS]

  it's not rocket science we know how to [TS]

  make apps i agree with you it's it's odd [TS]

  in yeah I guess I wonder [TS]

  isn't this 142 has been trying to do [TS]

  with the my was in my ford sync or four [TS]

  times and I've heard different reviews [TS]

  and that some people say all this stuff [TS]

  it's too like that's the thing people [TS]

  just started like wow it's amazing you [TS]

  can do it because we just so used two [TS]

  cars being [TS]

  way they are despite all these other [TS]

  aspects of our life that we we accept [TS]

  that the you know the technology has [TS]

  made to progress or just amazed like I [TS]

  can open the cars or visit our doors [TS]

  remotely with app isn't that awesome [TS]

  no that's not awesome you should have [TS]

  been able to do that like 20 years ago [TS]

  in fact you could with you know their [TS]

  little remote interesting but like it's [TS]

  where so star for features that the [TS]

  myford touch sync stuff it's like wow [TS]

  the only features are great and they are [TS]

  interesting but then the other hand [TS]

  people say the way they're implemented [TS]

  you know they look like they were [TS]

  implemented by my car company and not by [TS]

  software- business this is expectation [TS]

  gap and but even despite the expectation [TS]

  gap I've heard very bad things about my [TS]

  for touch but also very good things from [TS]

  people who are just amazed that you can [TS]

  do these things with a car before we [TS]

  leave the automatic topic i do want to [TS]

  point out one thing very near and dear [TS]

  to our hearts in the driving feedback [TS]

  section of their site it says and i [TS]

  quote automatic learns about your [TS]

  driving style and gives you subtly audio [TS]

  cues when you do things that waste gas [TS]

  like Rob breaking speeding and rapid [TS]

  acceleration that they missed an [TS]

  opportunity here because they should [TS]

  have is the make you a better driver [TS]

  mode that has nothing to do with fuel [TS]

  efficiency has everything to do with [TS]

  like whether your signals on signaling [TS]

  would be one thing if you don't think i [TS]

  was thinking of is the people who when [TS]

  coming to a stop [TS]

  increase the pedal of the pressure on [TS]

  the brake pedal as the car slows rather [TS]

  than decreasing it I this how do you [TS]

  represent that with a subtle audio cue I [TS]

  think what you have to do is actually an [TS]

  acceleration grabbin see you want is a [TS]

  nice smooth thing that is not called the [TS]

  heads of the people in your car to snap [TS]

  forward what you're doing is the [TS]

  opposite curve you know it would be like [TS]

  you know that the curve would be instead [TS]

  of being like a you know a ski slope [TS]

  going down it would be like a hump you [TS]

  know that i would like a visual [TS]

  representation of that so then you can [TS]

  you know so how's my driving and give [TS]

  you a star rating of like your stops are [TS]

  not smooth or if you're learning stick [TS]

  shift like you're not doing well [TS]

  accelerating pc power you know that's [TS]

  that's useful thing to do and meet you [TS]

  can make fun and interesting different [TS]

  ratings and people helping you to learn [TS]

  and how to drive you could you can [TS]

  imagine a little app helping you to [TS]

  learn how to drive stick better but like [TS]

  a little you know the version of Clippy [TS]

  they're saying it looks like you're [TS]

  trying to heel toe but you're doing it [TS]

  wrong and then you crash you're looking [TS]

  too much of the ball you don't have to [TS]

  be audio or whatever that there are many [TS]

  options for for driving everybody [TS]

  yeah I this the the things that we can [TS]

  just think of things on top of her head [TS]

  like if you had access to all the [TS]

  information that you know is available [TS]

  somewhere inside this car you can do [TS]

  lots of interesting things even if you [TS]

  just like you know like RunKeeper where [TS]

  you know you do you go on your workouts [TS]

  and stuff why does anything you know [TS]

  track your your roots and I maybe I [TS]

  guess at a certain point it becomes like [TS]

  a speeding type thing where you're [TS]

  trying to beat your best record getting [TS]

  from home to work and i don't know i [TS]

  have lots of ideas let's just say that I [TS]

  don't know all these ideas are good or [TS]

  possibly legal but this is just you know [TS]

  thinking about it for five minutes and [TS]

  the carmaker's seem to not be interested [TS]

  in pursuing any of these are doing any [TS]

  of them well it really isn't miss I mean [TS]

  just like you said I know people like us [TS]

  which granted our small group inning and [TS]

  an extremely nerdy group but if it was a [TS]

  choice between a 335 with or without a [TS]

  technology package or maybe it's a [TS]

  choice between an audi within [TS]

  unbelievably good technology package [TS]

  with a really robust app and so on and [TS]

  so forth and 335 which has no such [TS]

  support i mean that the i'm nerdy enough [TS]

  that i would think about going out e and [TS]

  then market would never talk to me again [TS]

  but probably you know its price I might [TS]

  well it's funny though is like when i [TS]

  was when i was looking for you know for [TS]

  our next family car i considered audi [TS]

  and i took a test drive back to back [TS]

  almost a year ago now of a 550 versus an [TS]

  a6 and what I found and obviously the [TS]

  fight is a faster car because there is [TS]

  no v 8 a-6 and they didn't have an s62 [TS]

  test drive at the time but i liked a lot [TS]

  about the audi driving wise like that [TS]

  the handling i thought was a little bit [TS]

  tighter than the standard 5-series like [TS]

  it it didn't feel like as big of a car [TS]

  there are things about if I liked a lot [TS]

  however I really didn't like the [TS]

  computer interface to it and [TS]

  and that was before I got the rocket so [TS]

  I had never used I Drive before so I [TS]

  wasn't like I was just biased towards I [TS]

  Drive I really didn't like Audi system [TS]

  and I like I could figure out I dry very [TS]

  quickly in the $YEAR 5 series analysis [TS]

  system in the a6 a year ago what I don't [TS]

  know if it's different now but i think [TS]

  it's roughly the same it was just really [TS]

  not my style i find it very unintuitive [TS]

  and i found lots of things about didn't [TS]

  work very well in my you know 20 minutes [TS]

  of testing so who knows but like the car [TS]

  was great in a lot of ways but it really [TS]

  bothered me how bad that interface was [TS]

  to these accessory features and I think [TS]

  that only underscores John how important [TS]

  your point is about how important [TS]

  software is these things whereas five [TS]

  years ago or ten years ago when I bought [TS]

  a car [TS]

  the they didn't have all these built-in [TS]

  features at least one of my price range [TS]

  student slick all these media things [TS]

  navigation things you know they didn't [TS]

  have those so i would have bought the [TS]

  car based on just the car and the way it [TS]

  drove in those kind of factors and now i [TS]

  will base my decisions more on things [TS]

  like software because it matters now and [TS]

  we've come to expect good things out of [TS]

  that now the same reason we you know [TS]

  you're willing to buy max or even iOS [TS]

  devices even if they don't have like oh [TS]

  it did you know there's like an eight [TS]

  core android phones you can take your [TS]

  phone isn't that what software-defined [TS]

  so much of the experience that it's [TS]

  obvious that of course you're not going [TS]

  to pick your phone or your personal [TS]

  computer based solely on hardware but [TS]

  that was not obvious you know decades [TS]

  ago be like well I don't care what I [TS]

  don't care that i have a das prompting [TS]

  you have a graphical user interface but [TS]

  my cpu as more megahertz than your [TS]

  business [TS]

  yeah that we grew out of that and we've [TS]

  grown out of it with these antique cars [TS]

  is the car equivalent is like once I [TS]

  started to have nice interiors and stuff [TS]

  it's like well you have this car is [TS]

  faster but this is more comfortable [TS]

  seats it has a more pleasant interior [TS]

  it's it's less no easiest I'll but it [TS]

  doesn't matter if you just care about [TS]

  the performance figures will know of [TS]

  course we can I care about where i'm [TS]

  sitting on a live in a nice place and [TS]

  software is just an extension of that [TS]

  where you don't just pick the car based [TS]

  on that knows the analogy was used to [TS]

  use back in the days of the pc weenies [TS]

  haranguing me about using a mac the [TS]

  eternal car analogy is good for so many [TS]

  things because people like it would be [TS]

  ridiculous for for someone to say [TS]

  did they choose a car solely based on [TS]

  performance numbers because everybody [TS]

  picks on things like like how it looks [TS]

  like what color it is on the outside on [TS]

  the internet see the outside when you're [TS]

  driving like you barely see it right and [TS]

  yet that is such an incredibly important [TS]

  part of buying a car known whatever say [TS]

  you can't discount how the car looks on [TS]

  the outside of course I'm not gonna buy [TS]

  another carbon only computer sure yeah [TS]

  lineup is you know it's it's faster it's [TS]

  got more memory and it's cheaper and I [TS]

  can get a bigger hard drive and like but [TS]

  you know people if you don't see you [TS]

  don't see it but the cars people totally [TS]

  accepted and I think iOS devices you [TS]

  know or you know mobile devices people [TS]

  accept that as well people bicone a [TS]

  phone because it's cute right and but [TS]

  you know since it's mostly screen [TS]

  obviously the software factors into that [TS]

  one cars we buy a based on all these [TS]

  criteria that had nothing to do with [TS]

  performance and software as it slowly [TS]

  absorbs like the inside of the car and [TS]

  becomes more prominent and it has [TS]

  hopefully carmakers or maybe third [TS]

  parties this is how it has to be but I [TS]

  really don't like it i come to enhance [TS]

  the experience of owning a car by [TS]

  finally giving us the software that like [TS]

  matches what our computers and phones [TS]

  could do 10 years ago that will become a [TS]

  defining characteristic that's why i [TS]

  think it's like such as there's a [TS]

  squandered opportunity if for example [TS]

  honda like you know apple buys honda and [TS]

  totally integrates you know Apple does [TS]

  the entire software experience of the [TS]

  car suddenly honda has become a lot more [TS]

  attractive for not much more money [TS]

  because it does not cost that much more [TS]

  money to wire up the components you need [TS]

  to let Apple go hog-wild with your honda [TS]

  you know I mean this opportunity it is [TS]

  and it's funny because I'm hearing you [TS]

  talk about this and I'm thinking to [TS]

  myself and about how I've been raving [TS]

  about the fact that i can send address [TS]

  to my car from my computer that you said [TS]

  you sound like I could send electronic [TS]

  man message exactly that's right Nick [TS]

  and that is so impressive because it's [TS]

  so rare to be for somebody actually be [TS]

  implemented and work that's so rare in [TS]

  the in the car business and and in the [TS]

  car you know when using in using most [TS]

  cars people having it's so rare to have [TS]

  anything that's that technologically [TS]

  advanced by 15 years ago standards [TS]

  remember crying out loud what we're [TS]

  excited now that we have aux audio in [TS]

  and we're not even asking like actual [TS]

  audio controls or like the ability to to [TS]

  like you know full song from from [TS]

  cloud-based streaming service or have [TS]

  have an integrated itunes migration [TS]

  talks audio in and we'll fumble with the [TS]

  stupid ipod someplace else and some of [TS]

  the cars have the ipod connector where [TS]

  who now I can do next and previous track [TS]

  on the radio controls its advanced [TS]

  technology it's like a god they're [TS]

  willing to but we're willing to accept [TS]

  anything you know it's true yet because [TS]

  you know our standards are just so low [TS]

  in this area [TS]

  yeah well that the car makers are are [TS]

  failing display of its it's not that our [TS]

  standards of my standards are very high [TS]

  it's just that we are so used to [TS]

  disappointment we just give it like we [TS]

  have no faith in car makers abilities to [TS]

  figure this out and because making cars [TS]

  such a complicated endeavor [TS]

  I is nothing to talk about in the worst [TS]

  word processing software is like that [TS]

  cars the car makers are protected by the [TS]

  extreme difficulty of making a good car [TS]

  because the car parts of the car is [TS]

  really hard you need lots of expertise [TS]

  and most important lots of experiences [TS]

  just asked s lower you know the code [TS]

  fisker karma or whatever always a little [TS]

  car companies making cars really hard [TS]

  and so it's very difficult for someone [TS]

  to say i'm going to disrupt the car [TS]

  industry by i'll do the software part [TS]

  right and i just did i'll just make the [TS]

  car part in making the car part is [TS]

  actually pretty darn hard and cost a lot [TS]

  of money and the barrier to entry is [TS]

  very high so these guys are protected [TS]

  sitting there with all of the collective [TS]

  inability to have a clue about software [TS]

  and like what [TS]

  yeah we can't figure it out and we do a [TS]

  great job but as long as we kind of do a [TS]

  similar job to our competitors it [TS]

  doesn't really matter that the overall [TS]

  the average level the entire industries [TS]

  terrible as long as we're kind of in the [TS]

  next we're fine we don't have to worry [TS]

  about someone who understands all for [TS]

  coming out making a better car because [TS]

  there's no way they'll figure out how to [TS]

  make a decent car it's not like the [TS]

  cellphone business in like 2003 yeah [TS]

  well because all the other cell phone [TS]

  makers well that was some more [TS]

  competition there in the tech sector [TS]

  like it's easier to make it a cell phone [TS]

  then to make a car so dominant in terms [TS]

  of you know it's like that experience [TS]

  you can buy parts you know from other [TS]

  makers and put them together and make a [TS]

  decent phone you you can buy an interim [TS]

  somebody you can buy a chassis from [TS]

  someone you can kind of hobble cobble [TS]

  together some sort of Frankenstein car [TS]

  monster but it's never going to be [TS]

  cohesive and your manufacturing quality [TS]

  will be bad and your assembly like [TS]

  this is that it is the shame of it is [TS]

  that making cars is a very difficult [TS]

  thing to do to make it really really [TS]

  well and experience counts for a lot so [TS]

  as a kind of corollary question and I'm [TS]

  gonna ask Marco and then all answer then [TS]

  John I'd like you to wrap it up [TS]

  who is going to be the first [TS]

  manufacturer to really get a clue and do [TS]

  this well what's your guess i don't know [TS]

  i think BMW have shown a lot of efforts [TS]

  to be fairly progressive with like ipod [TS]

  integration and analysis eerie [TS]

  hands-free and stuff they're the only [TS]

  ones but they have certainly been pretty [TS]

  early to a lot of these things but I [TS]

  look at their software and and again [TS]

  like I get their software still looks [TS]

  like it's being made by car people and [TS]

  not by tech people and and that might [TS]

  never change so i'm not sure it will be [TS]

  them honestly it and another company i [TS]

  would think of off the top of my head [TS]

  might be well as you say toyota because [TS]

  toyota is all is big on a lot of this [TS]

  like good interface even though I [TS]

  disagree with a lot of their choices but [TS]

  they at least care alot and make some [TS]

  bold choices about things like good [TS]

  interfaces and you know quantifying how [TS]

  well you're driving like the previous [TS]

  was very early to that where you know to [TS]

  to appeal even more to mileage conscious [TS]

  people [TS]

  the president has had that diagram [TS]

  showing you how it was using energy at [TS]

  any given moment and and for the time [TS]

  when the time that came out at first [TS]

  that was actually a a very advanced [TS]

  thing to be showing in a car so you know [TS]

  they I i would say them but Toyota is [TS]

  also really conservative with a lot of [TS]

  this stuff in general so I wouldn't i [TS]

  think think they would want you know [TS]

  they certainly wouldn't invite somebody [TS]

  into to redesign their entire media [TS]

  software experience like that I can't [TS]

  see them ever doing that they're there [TS]

  too conservative and controlling for [TS]

  that so I'm going to revise my answer [TS]

  and say I would either expected to come [TS]

  from BMW seems pretty progressive in [TS]

  this area or i would expect it [TS]

  from an American company like maybe Ford [TS]

  because they tend to work really closely [TS]

  with Microsoft a lot and and I can see [TS]

  it coming from that way maybe more so [TS]

  than a than a predominantly not American [TS]

  company [TS]

  alright so i don't know obviously with [TS]

  the answer is but i have a couple of [TS]

  guesses I'm gonna stick with one of my [TS]

  first thought was perhaps many and I [TS]

  said that because they seem to be like [TS]

  you said kind of progressive kind of [TS]

  bubbly and fun especially for BMW who [TS]

  depending on how you look at them is [TS]

  arguably very stodgy but then it [TS]

  occurred to me well if they're gonna do [TS]

  this really cool tech thing why would [TS]

  they do it in many yeah they could [TS]

  probably get away with it but doesn't [TS]

  that strike me as more of a 7-series [TS]

  sort of thing [TS]

  also many many is we should talk about [TS]

  me separately able to do that to the [TS]

  sponsor break but uh mit the way many is [TS]

  designed internally the controls and [TS]

  everything it's very much like the retro [TS]

  that rotation priority and so I can't [TS]

  imagine them revamping the interior [TS]

  enough to accommodate something like [TS]

  this that's actually very good . I [TS]

  hadn't considered that [TS]

  so I so I don't think its many my next [TS]

  thought was just like you said maybe [TS]

  forward since Ford is shown some promise [TS]

  with the ford sync or whatever it's cool [TS]

  i can't remember the name of it but it [TS]

  doesn't matter the forward thing that [TS]

  Microsoft did but here again I don't [TS]

  know it seems like it's kinda [TS]

  half-hearted maybe that's just because [TS]

  it's microsoft microsoft has a hard time [TS]

  doing anything progressive well but as I [TS]

  had another word you have so i thought [TS]

  maybe not afford and believe it or not [TS]

  the one that I landed on that I think [TS]

  might it is my final answer although I'm [TS]

  going out on a limb here is what about [TS]

  sion because sion seems to be toyota who [TS]

  is a stodgy company with with [TS]

  progressive flirtations if you will they [TS]

  they used scion to do things that are a [TS]

  little while to take the Toyota peru for [TS]

  example which is a scion in the in the [TS]

  united states i wouldn't be surprised if [TS]

  someone in sion got hit with the Smart [TS]

  stick and tried something a little wild [TS]

  with some sort of software integration [TS]

  and I I wouldn't i would say Sion is the [TS]

  most likely in my own well I think the [TS]

  problem there though is you know what [TS]

  you said earlier about many like it [TS]

  could be a cost thing you know I think [TS]

  people directing something like a [TS]

  radical new software environment [TS]

  directing that at a at young people is [TS]

  smart [TS]

  however it's going to have a cost [TS]

  premium and almost everything directed [TS]

  at young people in the car market is an [TS]

  economy brand so that they might not be [TS]

  able to wait that it necessarily that's [TS]

  at the start I would agree but also [TS]

  consider software compared to the rest [TS]

  of the car is fairly cheap so i don't [TS]

  know i mean i'm not disagreeing I just [TS]

  really don't know John will show what [TS]

  would you say so i think this this thing [TS]

  is revolution if it comes at all [TS]

  I is not going to come from the [TS]

  expensive car manufacturers which seems [TS]

  counterintuitive is like wouldn't they [TS]

  have the the room in their margins to [TS]

  undergo project with this i mean i think [TS]

  they are they do continue to try to make [TS]

  their software better and they do spend [TS]

  money on it but I think all of them and [TS]

  in fact most of the existing well-known [TS]

  car manufacturers have a problem of [TS]

  pride they think they can do this stuff [TS]

  like I think they have departments that [TS]

  really feel like they are doing out [TS]

  there at the cutting edge of car [TS]

  interiors and computer controls and they [TS]

  don't want to hear about this automatic [TS]

  company where these five guys and a loft [TS]

  somewhere made this app it's better than [TS]

  everything we've been doing and I mean [TS]

  like that in that video with that dude [TS]

  you see that the video with the dude who [TS]

  makes a little ring noises for the BMW [TS]

  Marco of course the CNBC original right [TS]

  right right so that guy in that room [TS]

  that whole department that whole [TS]

  organization those guys like it there [TS]

  they do not want it they're not going to [TS]

  be receptive to the to the reality that [TS]

  they are just so far behind right so [TS]

  that's what I think they will continue [TS]

  to do if we make their stuff better and [TS]

  perhaps that's how we arrived at it is [TS]

  like them over a long long time [TS]

  but it's not going to be a disruption [TS]

  thing when I think about this I think of [TS]

  it coming from i don't wanna name a [TS]

  specific company because only specific [TS]

  coming to make terrible cars but like [TS]

  that's that's how disruptions work like [TS]

  you know it was that indian company Tata [TS]

  or something or even like some of the [TS]

  lesser-known Korean makers of cars like [TS]

  it's going to be an hour maybe hyundai [TS]

  is the best example the people might [TS]

  have heard of it's going to be a company [TS]

  that doesn't yet have a name for itself [TS]

  it doesn't have anything to lose and [TS]

  it's going to be the type of thing kind [TS]

  of like a Saturn or it where the entire [TS]

  line of cars the entire brand of cars is [TS]

  defined by oh those are the cars that [TS]

  have the computer crap that actually [TS]

  works right because it's a weigh-in for [TS]

  an unknown car manufacturer and it's not [TS]

  going to be on one model is not going to [TS]

  be on the just a specific model it's [TS]

  going to be the type of thing we say if [TS]

  we make all our cars like this right it [TS]

  won't add that much of the cost they can [TS]

  still be cheap cars [TS]

  we're just going to commit to it and [TS]

  this is gonna be the reputation of our [TS]

  cars it's not going to be over that car [TS]

  when you don't have to haggle for the [TS]

  price or that car that's kind of like a [TS]

  Mercedes but it's as reliable as as a [TS]

  Toyota you know like their message will [TS]

  be its the car that does all those cool [TS]

  computer things and they all do it if [TS]

  you buy any account like apple stuff [TS]

  they all do it if you buy any of them [TS]

  you will have this good experience and I [TS]

  don't know who that is and Hyundai's [TS]

  probably you know has already kind of [TS]

  done their thing and come up from [TS]

  underneath so it's probably going to be [TS]

  some carmaker that either haven't heard [TS]

  of or dismissed as a maker of crappy [TS]

  cars because remember all the Japanese [TS]

  makers were dismisses makers of toy [TS]

  crappy cars that fell apart and they [TS]

  learn pretty quickly you know when they [TS]

  eventually become honey but i think all [TS]

  the incumbents are have too much pride I [TS]

  mean that that's what the American car [TS]

  companies have an advantage in that hurt [TS]

  for a forever you know on the financial [TS]

  ropes like almost going out of business [TS]

  for is actually an exceptional cases [TS]

  actually been doing well they've done a [TS]

  reasonable turn around but when you're [TS]

  on the ropes [TS]

  you're more inclined to possibly partner [TS]

  with Microsoft or whatever but those [TS]

  partnerships like I really like you have [TS]

  to either have like a real partnership [TS]

  where like you become 50-percent owned [TS]

  by apple or something [TS]

  of course that's only gonna happen if [TS]

  Apple's interested like that that's not [TS]

  under your control or it has to be the [TS]

  type of thing [TS]

  you say you know what we're going to [TS]

  build this expertise in-house and it's [TS]

  not going to be a big deal because we're [TS]

  not displacing people who have been [TS]

  working here 50 years making the stupid [TS]

  little dingy tone so we're never going [TS]

  to accept the fact that they're terrible [TS]

  at their jobs and be replaced with a [TS]

  bunch of young people to do something [TS]

  entirely different you know what I mean [TS]

  it would have to be we're a small [TS]

  company we no one knows who we are we're [TS]

  going to build a reputation is we're [TS]

  going to build that aren't start [TS]

  staffing up now you know I find that [TS]

  entire scenario very unlikely i think [TS]

  we're just gonna continue to be stuck [TS]

  with the crappy cars from the existing [TS]

  manufacturers that we have now but if it [TS]

  does happen if we have a disruption it [TS]

  does happen i think it's going to come [TS]

  from some company that makes cars that [TS]

  we all hate that we think of crap [TS]

  well what about and I I realized in the [TS]

  middle of that block their that we've [TS]

  been for I think forgetting about [TS]

  something obvious what about Tesla that [TS]

  they're already they've already picked [TS]

  their thing and their thing is our cars [TS]

  are electric [TS]

  I think that's more than enough to buy [TS]

  no but Tesla has made a dramatic very [TS]

  progressive move in in car software and [TS]

  and the interface 28 know we've talked [TS]

  in the past how we don't really [TS]

  necessarily care for how far they've [TS]

  gone with it but i think that's that's a [TS]

  very obvious possibility that they might [TS]

  be the ones are showing this in although [TS]

  they're gonna have to get a lot more you [TS]

  know cheap mass-market models out there [TS]

  before it can make much of a difference [TS]

  it's hard to tell with one data point [TS]

  because when I look at I think oh well [TS]

  they got they got good people to do this [TS]

  one interface but like i need at least [TS]

  two or three to see like a line or curve [TS]

  you know what I mean to see if it's just [TS]

  added first of all that's excluding out [TS]

  there big thing they're focusing on [TS]

  focus on it's an electric car we have [TS]

  the supercharger stations is a [TS]

  revolution in transportation ball but [TS]

  also focus on that all by the way it [TS]

  also has futuristic interior if they [TS]

  take off Tesla is completely positioned [TS]

  to say oh we actually to staff up we [TS]

  need to have an entire department of [TS]

  people who just like I mean for example [TS]

  why is there no iOS app for the Tesla [TS]

  like that's right in the center of their [TS]

  market you know everyone is buying that [TS]

  thing as a smartphone right you know i [TS]

  mean like why does not exist just it [TS]

  looks like something that they sort of [TS]

  contracted out to be made to their [TS]

  specifications there don't consider it a [TS]

  core competency of the company it seems [TS]

  like the company is basically a battery [TS]

  battery manufacturer [TS]

  that wraps the car around it is trying [TS]

  to get some expertise in cars and that's [TS]

  more than enough to buy off at once if [TS]

  if they succeed beyond everyone's [TS]

  wildest dreams they will have the [TS]

  capital to do that but i'm not sure if [TS]

  like I always feel like you know a lot [TS]

  of people in the old Steve Jobs thing of [TS]

  like how can i can't i can't stop [TS]

  talking about apple in the car show [TS]

  I like when he went to Xerox PARC and he [TS]

  saw all these different things are [TS]

  networking object-oriented programming [TS]

  the GUI and all he could see was the GUI [TS]

  came back with a good but there was two [TS]

  other gravity is right in front of space [TS]

  but it's like I can only handle one at [TS]

  once and I feel like that the people [TS]

  running Tesla it's like electric cars [TS]

  man and they just don't distract me [TS]

  those that much your cars man no but [TS]

  what about the UN not everybody will put [TS]

  a futuristic sorry i don't know if they [TS]

  can I don't think hold those two big [TS]

  ideas are three big ideas or 400 are in [TS]

  their head at once I think maybe they [TS]

  just they just come back with you know [TS]

  the car full of the GUI and they go nuts [TS]

  with that and maybe take someone else or [TS]

  maybe their second or third try to see [TS]

  those other things [TS]

  that's why I feel like there's there's [TS]

  like three ideal homes in my head for [TS]

  for like where this technology would [TS]

  would have the biggest splash you know [TS]

  we're like you know a big revamp of the [TS]

  software experience in a car where that [TS]

  we have the biggest splash and then one [TS]

  of them is the previous which we've [TS]

  already seen I've already said I don't [TS]

  think too it would be that daring with [TS]

  it [TS]

  another one is the chevy volt which had [TS]

  as many of those same issues Tesla has [TS]

  which is like they have to concentrate [TS]

  their their marketing and and their [TS]

  differentiation if they have to [TS]

  concentrate people's attention on the [TS]

  fact that has such a different power [TS]

  train than every other hybrid and most [TS]

  other hybrids and the advantages that [TS]

  gives you so obviously they can't really [TS]

  afford to you know have everything be [TS]

  focused on their software but and I i [TS]

  don't think they actually did anything [TS]

  impressive and I've never actually been [TS]

  in a vault but I don't from what i [TS]

  remember i don't think they've done [TS]

  anything particularly noteworthy in the [TS]

  in the software area there but and then [TS]

  the third place I could think of would [TS]

  be you know basically in in premium [TS]

  sports sedans like things that upscale [TS]

  young people buy like a 3-series RNA for [TS]

  i can see that going [TS]

  being a good place for it because [TS]

  there's margin for it and people who are [TS]

  like kind of nerdy about what their car [TS]

  can do I think they're likely to be [TS]

  picking cars like that if they can so [TS]

  you'll definitely see the features and [TS]

  those things but i really really think [TS]

  this type of effort has to be like [TS]

  product line wide brand wide [TS]

  top-to-bottom every single car gets it [TS]

  because it's not you like they don't [TS]

  feel like they can just do it for one [TS]

  car because yeah you're right to the [TS]

  premium cars will continue to have these [TS]

  fancy features but it'll just be like [TS]

  one-offs like even the stuff in the [TS]

  previous you know I've been lots of the [TS]

  producers or pre / you / the florals and [TS]

  they have interesting features them and [TS]

  so good that they added them but they're [TS]

  clearly features made by car [TS]

  manufacturer like there's no there's no [TS]

  understanding of like what a platform is [TS]

  what a general-purpose computing [TS]

  experience like the possibilities that [TS]

  are there when you treat your car as a [TS]

  computing platform and and build it up [TS]

  in that matter all your cars I does it [TS]

  only makes sense to do that for your [TS]

  entire car line it doesn't you it's [TS]

  probably not economically feasible and [TS]

  wise to just to pilot it but that's what [TS]

  they always do this like oh but we'll [TS]

  put the features a high-end car and I'll [TS]

  trickle down to the other ones and by [TS]

  the time it gets down to my honda accord [TS]

  it's like the worst touchscreen [TS]

  experience entire universe because it's [TS]

  basically technology that's from you [TS]

  know the high-end cars from five years [TS]

  ago which were already awful you know so [TS]

  it's not like it has to be it has to be [TS]

  if we're talking about some sort of wow [TS]

  that's the car with all the computer [TS]

  stuff that works it has to be that type [TS]

  of thing but i said i don't i find that [TS]

  less likely than what Mark was talking [TS]

  about in that will just continue to have [TS]

  slightly better stuff slightly less [TS]

  embarrassing it does a little bit more [TS]

  just year after year continually lagging [TS]

  like what the rest of the tech industry [TS]

  does but still making positive progress [TS]

  this episode is sponsored once again by [TS]

  Squarespace Squarespace you know that [TS]

  they gave me a script i'm gonna ignore [TS]

  it look [TS]

  Squarespace is awesome and this is a [TS]

  place where you can go and host your [TS]

  site and that site can be a blog it can [TS]

  be a portfolio can be your business the [TS]

  site if you run a shop or restaurant or [TS]

  consulting former anything you can you [TS]

  can put all the stuff on Squarespace you [TS]

  can put your podcast there this podcast [TS]

  is there [TS]

  really it's fantastic and it lets you [TS]

  it lets you build a beautiful-looking [TS]

  site with very little effort you don't [TS]

  hire your own designer you can you can [TS]

  use the built-in templates or you can [TS]

  customize everything if you really want [TS]

  to but were they really shine is people [TS]

  who don't already have stock designs [TS]

  their pre pre defined designs they want [TS]

  to use who want to just make a website [TS]

  and not not to like work on it for [TS]

  months you know you can go there and [TS]

  build something in minutes or a couple [TS]

  hours if you really want to put a whole [TS]

  lot into it and it's done and then you [TS]

  don't have to know the hosting is [TS]

  built-in if you get link to buy somebody [TS]

  big it won't go down [TS]

  i mean it's it's really a fantastic [TS]

  platform so go to look [TS]

  at their plans you can even sell stuff [TS]

  now with the Commerce stuff we talked [TS]

  about in previous episodes it's really a [TS]

  complete all-in-one platform for hosting [TS]

  so many different kinds of websites and [TS]

  it's so consumer friendly as i said i [TS]

  recommend that everybody go to [TS]

  squarespace to build stuff like this [TS]

  because you know people always ask me [TS]

  where I should build my site you know [TS]

  how do I put up a website you know [TS]

  non-technical people a lot of times ask [TS]

  me that and even technical people i mean [TS]

  look I'm putting stuff there [TS]

  it's a great place to go to checkout [TS]

  Squarespace use coupon code neutral [TS]

  three at checkout that's neutral and [TS]

  three for the month of $MONTH march [TS]

  neutral three check out will save you an [TS]

  additional ten percent off their already [TS]

  very affordable plans which start at [TS]

  about 10 bucks a month so check out [TS]

  Squarespace and thanks to them for [TS]

  sponsoring neutral soon i still think we [TS]

  should tell sell t-shirts on Christmas [TS]

  we can they do allow that your [TS]

  advertising is working on me we would [TS]

  need to have t-shirts first though [TS]

  but anyway we could have a content so i [TS]

  did want to come back briefly to many [TS]

  yeah i was gonna send you people have [TS]

  asked us about that including somebody [TS]

  in quality foo and the feedback a few [TS]

  people have asked about what we think of [TS]

  many and I have my opinions do you guys [TS]

  want to start though like no because I [TS]

  I'll be quick [TS]

  I ignore me because I think the cars [TS]

  look silly but ok moving on [TS]

  easy enough i agree moving so I what I [TS]

  was buying the subaru which you guys [TS]

  adore so much [TS]

  I actually also looked at getting a mini [TS]

  cooper s and if memory serves at the [TS]

  time they were so they were still [TS]

  supercharged and turbocharged and I also [TS]

  looked at the scion tc or whatever the [TS]

  little coupe thing was which had like 3 [TS]

  horsepower right I I i liked the mini in [TS]

  principle I hated the humongous [TS]

  centrally mounted is that the [TS]

  speedometer in there is everything I [TS]

  thought that was obscenely ugly and [TS]

  stupid i like that it was a fair bit of [TS]

  car for at the time OK money it was [TS]

  still a little bit expensive for what it [TS]

  was but it wasn't atrocious [TS]

  I thought it was kind of a kind of cool [TS]

  that it was a front-wheel-drive car with [TS]

  limited slip differential which you [TS]

  didn't see too terribly often but for a [TS]

  bunch of reasons mostly size go figure [TS]

  it the mini is actually kind of small [TS]

  isn't that weird [TS]

  i I didn't end up doing it in retrospect [TS]

  I'm kind of glad because i don't [TS]

  typically care front-wheel-drive cars [TS]

  I don't didn't want something that small [TS]

  even though i strictly speaking the [TS]

  reason for anything bigger and I don't [TS]

  know it just didn't feel like me and and [TS]

  I've driven a mini cooper s after that I [TS]

  never actually even got as far as [TS]

  test-driving one when I was thinking [TS]

  about it and i drove a $YEAR mini cooper [TS]

  s and I believe this was the last year [TS]

  the supercharged ones and it was [TS]

  definitely fun and it was moderately [TS]

  Pepe but it was nowhere near as quick as [TS]

  a subaru the subaru while fast is not [TS]

  marcos rocket so I liked it it was fun [TS]

  but I I didn't feel like I had never had [TS]

  a pang of regret by not having one and [TS]

  that in when I see the michael that's [TS]

  kinda cool [TS]

  it's a mini cooper s and I guess you're [TS]

  kind of a car person if you got the mini [TS]

  cooper s but me I think i agree with [TS]

  almost everything you just said i am in [TS]

  fact maybe even everything for the first [TS]

  time ever [TS]

  although you would do a profit and white [TS]

  but now i would get the the Union Jack [TS]

  on the roof man come on i'm not kidding [TS]

  I we looked at many for tips car i drove [TS]

  $OPERAND min is a lot during my zipcar [TS]

  year in Brooklyn before i discovered the [TS]

  328i so I've driven many I i should [TS]

  clarify these are all mini coopers and [TS]

  now they have like 14 models but [TS]

  I've given the mini cooper a lot and all [TS]

  not even the cut there's a new one now i [TS]

  think it's like $MONEY a year old but [TS]

  the one before that address [TS]

  overall I i really enjoyed using it as a [TS]

  zipcar like a temporary rental any kind [TS]

  of rental i think many is a fun choice [TS]

  but i also not sure I want to own one [TS]

  part of the problem is of course yes it [TS]

  is very small that's kind of part of the [TS]

  appeal also it does it is a fun car to [TS]

  handle and a fun car to drive and an [TS]

  easy car park part of the problem though [TS]

  is just that because it is kind of bmw's [TS]

  brand aimed at young people it's try its [TS]

  attempts to be inexpensive in the US and [TS]

  it really isn't [TS]

  I it really is not a very good value [TS]

  also it has terrible resale value so as [TS]

  a result of finance and lease rates are [TS]

  pretty hostile for hit and you end up [TS]

  like you can almost lease a 328 for the [TS]

  same price as a mini even though at [TS]

  retail it's like it's like a 10,000 our [TS]

  difference but you know the lease rates [TS]

  are terrible and usually they also you [TS]

  know reliability wise they don't have [TS]

  very good history [TS]

  generally speaking you probably [TS]

  shouldn't have an old mini and they have [TS]

  a lot of resale issues because they are [TS]

  so incredibly customizable that there [TS]

  are all these different paint options [TS]

  decals and stripes and mirror finishes [TS]

  like you you can get so many different [TS]

  cosmetic choices which part of the [TS]

  appeal of buying one if you want [TS]

  something really like custom looking [TS]

  look that looks like it's your [TS]

  personality you have way more than like [TS]

  the standard five colors to choose from [TS]

  but the problem is nobody wants to buy [TS]

  your crazy combination that you made a [TS]

  tree Sahel so it's harder than like that [TS]

  that's part of the damage of the resale [TS]

  value and part of makes it harder to [TS]

  find used ones in addition to them [TS]

  having mediocre at best reliability [TS]

  ratings the market for using this [TS]

  terrible so overall they're on a very [TS]

  good value they are though they're very [TS]

  fun to drive and they have decent engine [TS]

  specs for especially for their size but [TS]

  the interiors I find are just miserable [TS]

  I don't think that part of it is that [TS]

  retro design we mentioned earlier you [TS]

  mentioned had the big speedometer is in [TS]

  the front like the window the electric [TS]

  window switches are in the middle with [TS]

  his ancient-looking switches like it's [TS]

  maybe look all retro but I think in in [TS]

  trying to achieve that it's appealing to [TS]

  a retro image that most of the buyers [TS]

  have never seen most most people who buy [TS]

  menus have never been in the original [TS]

  old British car that there but they're [TS]

  made to look like and instead you know [TS]

  we would appreciate things like more [TS]

  friendly designs of the controls and [TS]

  dials and they have chosen not to do [TS]

  that for the most part so that's that's [TS]

  part of the problem and the other thing [TS]

  is just you know if for what you get [TS]

  there are so many better choices so I [TS]

  feel like it's a decent choice if its [TS]

  strengths are your top priorities and [TS]

  but know what those are its trains are [TS]

  that it looks pretty cool from the [TS]

  outside and it's really small [TS]

  that's great if that's what you're going [TS]

  for then sure consider and if those are [TS]

  your top priorities if you if you have [TS]

  other priorities they're like oh if [TS]

  those just aren't that important to you [TS]

  and you instead want like maybe a [TS]

  compact efficient fun to drive car there [TS]

  are other choices that are better i [TS]

  think such as well the Toyota brew for [TS]

  one that's that's exactly what is so [TS]

  that's that's a really obvious choice [TS]

  but even even like even in the less [TS]

  sporty category you want to talk my head [TS]

  I'm not really sure but I mean the [TS]

  problem is like when you configure one [TS]

  of these it ends up being almost thirty [TS]

  thousand dollars right i mean i haven't [TS]

  looked at like two years but when i was [TS]

  looking it was in this warm orgasm for [TS]

  it was kissing 30 grand or maybe even [TS]

  just barely over a forget now it's been [TS]

  so long but it was it was a lot more [TS]

  money than i would have thought oh you [TS]

  know the market is right for the right [TS]

  kind of retro in the the Toyota biru is [TS]

  a great example of a bit like give that [TS]

  that's a throwback to you know that [TS]

  their original like you know the [TS]

  original z-cars it's a small [TS]

  rear-wheel-drive reliable Japanese [TS]

  sporty car [TS]

  it's not too fast but it's fun light and [TS]

  all that good stuff what you're talking [TS]

  about like what are the alternatives to [TS]

  the many-to-many is kind of a grotesque [TS]

  version of what we used to have a lot of [TS]

  which was the relatively cheap [TS]

  lightweight fun sporty car not just real [TS]

  drive but even front-wheel-drive me [TS]

  think of the honda CRX yeah love that [TS]

  song is old absolutely like the CRX [TS]

  honors talk to them they will still talk [TS]

  about like the olden board fiesta in [TS]

  hushed tones no no one likes that kind [TS]

  of people like that [TS]

  oh come on this if this is a good [TS]

  example I think the moment here is [TS]

  something right hold following right the [TS]

  prelude where the heck is equal to the [TS]

  prelude used to be a staple of honda's [TS]

  lineup but you know like the choice was [TS]

  either you keep blowing it up like the [TS]

  subaru until become super the super [TS]

  light super until it becomes this [TS]

  gigantic super-expensive bloated beast [TS]

  that has no recognition of the car from [TS]

  whence it came [TS]

  or you just can it like the CRX and you [TS]

  know they have the cr-z but everyone is [TS]

  like no that's not what we meant even [TS]

  the integra the integra was another [TS]

  example is like the integra just keeps [TS]

  getting bigger morphs into the RSX and [TS]

  it's like it's losing you know there is [TS]

  the market is still there i think [TS]

  especially now for the people like only [TS]

  the CRX is their first car maybe now [TS]

  have a little bit more money make that [TS]

  you know do the do the you know FRS brz [TS]

  thing make a modern version of that type [TS]

  of car let me out is the one that's [TS]

  actually stayed true to it so it's still [TS]

  small lightweight convertible that you [TS]

  toss around that's not fast and I like [TS]

  oh the next to me out is gonna go zero [TS]

  to 60 in four seconds no it's not it's [TS]

  gonna be me out i mean it's got a little [TS]

  bit bulkier for safety reasons and stuff [TS]

  but that the mini is like a good idea [TS]

  not not for 30 grand you don't mean like [TS]

  that a little fun toss around car then [TS]

  the many reminds me of like an ugly [TS]

  British CRX i will say maybe a good [TS]

  alternative would be a golf actually GTI [TS]

  is a very good call though it's similar [TS]

  money [TS]

  well maybe but like the base golf yeah i [TS]

  don't know i mean it's not that's slow [TS]

  but i think you're right i think you're [TS]

  on the basement is slow to yeah that's [TS]

  fair . very fair . you know I i would [TS]

  say if i would if i had to buy either [TS]

  the many or the golf III might pick the [TS]

  Gulf that's and agree [TS]

  I'm a little surprised John you didn't [TS]

  bring up the civic I mean the civic has [TS]

  also gotten bigger to see you soon again [TS]

  it's true with the Civic Si was like [TS]

  beginning of the last its stomach acid I [TS]

  still has a little bit of credit that [TS]

  area where it's like you want a cheap [TS]

  car maybe like front-wheel drive [TS]

  performance cars what the heck you [TS]

  talking about but you know there's like [TS]

  people enjoy them because they they're [TS]

  cheap they're lightweight kids can own [TS]

  them they're fun that you know that [TS]

  they're quirky without being like you [TS]

  know comically quirky like the mini i [TS]

  mean i don't know i'm not gonna slam the [TS]

  mini like if you want a car that's like [TS]

  that that's you know it's kind of like [TS]

  the the new beetle bug thing right that [TS]

  they made much uglier in the new [TS]

  revision but like if that's what you [TS]

  want you you know it's good at that car [TS]

  I like the fact that is it you sing [TS]

  credit car maker that you either you [TS]

  want no you want that you know you don't [TS]

  want that but did I there's definitely a [TS]

  market for cars that harken back to all [TS]

  the things that modern cars have gone [TS]

  away from and you have the civic has [TS]

  gotten big and ugly and weird and you [TS]

  know it was the silicon always kind of [TS]

  boring but you know the SI was supposed [TS]

  to be the exciting one even that when [TS]

  people complain with each new sis like [TS]

  all this isn't the SI that I want up [TS]

  I don't want to be lighter they wanted [TS]

  to be cheaper they wanted to be a [TS]

  high-revving you know it's sort of like [TS]

  the m3 actually in that the m3 gets more [TS]

  and more bloated each year and all the [TS]

  BMW nut jobs are always like a hawk god [TS]

  they made the m3 heavier again and now [TS]

  it's the m4 if you get a coupe which I [TS]

  still don't know if I really agree with [TS]

  but they're kind of holding the line on [TS]

  the like I think the m3 is fluctuating [TS]

  it's kinda like the 911 where yeah it [TS]

  gets more modern yeah that one from [TS]

  their cruel the water-cooled like that [TS]

  you can't stop progress but you just [TS]

  want to again the BRC is a great example [TS]

  you just want to recapture the spirit of [TS]

  the you are you don't have to match [TS]

  expect respect and maybe it's not even [TS]

  possible or wise and a lot of it is [TS]

  nostalgia like you know that the noise [TS]

  levels and comfort levels or and [TS]

  performances all across a really [TS]

  terrible you have fond memories of it [TS]

  because it was a long time ago but just [TS]

  captured the spirit of it or you know do [TS]

  with the miata is and just carry that [TS]

  spirit forward preserving as best you [TS]

  can in a modern mold [TS]

  yeah i agree i will say also to complete [TS]

  the discussion on many there they did [TS]

  they now have so many models that you [TS]

  know I've been basing almost all of what [TS]

  I said on the Cooper's that's what I [TS]

  drove i will say though they had [TS]

  they now have bigger ones of and one of [TS]

  the things we looked at was I forget [TS]

  what it's called i think it might be the [TS]

  countryman there there's a it's the one [TS]

  that came out like two years ago and all [TS]

  the drive for the first time I believe [TS]

  that's right although I'm probably wrong [TS]

  and you can email marketing and [TS]

  whichever one that has are have to look [TS]

  it up whenever one of them had all the [TS]

  drive for the first time and came out [TS]

  about two years ago it and it the [TS]

  problem with that one we went to go for [TS]

  tips Carter considering that because we [TS]

  want to drive for we want a little more [TS]

  space than the Cooper little more [TS]

  storage so we went to a dealer and and [TS]

  we sat in one of the showroom and we [TS]

  didn't even want to take a test drive [TS]

  just having sat in the showroom that was [TS]

  enough for like you know what this [TS]

  interior is still terrible it's the same [TS]

  it was the same mediocre interior from [TS]

  the you know the base level Cooper at a [TS]

  much higher price . it was like a bigger [TS]

  you know I guess more upscale type model [TS]

  and you know the interior was still [TS]

  terrible and proportionally it really [TS]

  looks like an SUV like it's it's very [TS]

  it's not very many anymore like and I [TS]

  feel like a lot of the models are doing [TS]

  this where yes the many appeals a lot to [TS]

  young people as a brand as an aesthetic [TS]

  appeal of young people but young people [TS]

  often have the beginnings of a family or [TS]

  have to haul stuff back and forth to [TS]

  college or something and so that's why [TS]

  hatchbacks are so popular among young [TS]

  people and why so many small cheap cars [TS]

  are hatchbacks to have that kind of [TS]

  cargo versatility and so many has tried [TS]

  to address this by making all these [TS]

  additional models that are bigger and [TS]

  fatter and and have more cargo room and [TS]

  more seating room and more doors you [TS]

  know that they have for many for the [TS]

  first time in the last couple years [TS]

  never had before and I feel like that's [TS]

  kind of messing with why people bought [TS]

  them in the first place and so they [TS]

  still offer the cooper and that's good [TS]

  and they probably always should offer [TS]

  that but i think they're over reaching [TS]

  in in what they should be doing and [TS]

  focusing on by having these additional [TS]

  models because we're not doing very well [TS]

  and like if you're in the market for the [TS]

  big fat many with four doors I feel like [TS]

  it's a pretty terrible contender for [TS]

  that role and their end all the other [TS]

  competitors to it are better choices [TS]

  than that I mean they see they see what [TS]

  people are buying and it's like everyone [TS]

  else is a small SUV and you know we need [TS]

  that we need to have a small SUV [TS]

  I mean like when Lamborghini is making [TS]

  an SUV you know the pressure is on for [TS]

  like you know I mean I at least Ferraris [TS]

  held won't help line with the 44 with dr [TS]

  thing that I make an SUV like it you [TS]

  small SUV sell like crazy and that many [TS]

  knows they're never gonna make cars good [TS]

  as the rav4 right they're not going to [TS]

  make it you know they may not even match [TS]

  the crv but they can make a small [TS]

  forward or looking kind of sport you [TS]

  thinking what does it have that all the [TS]

  cars don't looks kind of like a mini or [TS]

  kind of like you peel the skin off mini [TS]

  instruction / rap for hot and so you [TS]

  know people in the showroom [TS]

  presently they like that bug-eyed big [TS]

  mouth look and here's a bug-eyed big [TS]

  mouth thing but could we get a little [TS]

  bit bigger and with four doors and yeah [TS]

  that's kinda I like the small suvs it [TS]

  looks like a mini that's it's kind of [TS]

  like I could bring up the lexus you no [TS]

  RX 300 now 350 that became their [TS]

  best-selling model and it's like well [TS]

  alexis was not there nice fancy luxury [TS]

  cars some of them are kind of sporty and [TS]

  elegant looking and you're gonna make [TS]

  this weird truck looking thing out [TS]

  best-selling model and it's a bit it's a [TS]

  business after all like and so I don't [TS]

  know how these things are selling but I [TS]

  don't blame them for trying [TS]

  well i guess in summary of my many [TS]

  opinion i think its overall a pretty [TS]

  poor value and so you have to love it [TS]

  for other reasons and and I and those [TS]

  reasons are mostly aesthetic especially [TS]

  from the exterior if you're looking for [TS]

  other priorities in a car i think it [TS]

  made a pretty bad choice [TS]

  I i think i like the idea that the car [TS]

  makers are out there like that car like [TS]

  sob you know you either got you know [TS]

  you're like a sob but you know you don't [TS]

  like using credit car makers that you're [TS]

  not like that's their whole brand [TS]

  they're not going to make it bland [TS]

  they're not going to tone it down [TS]

  going to they're going to be distinctive [TS]

  in a particular way and as consolidation [TS]

  has happened you know as the carmaker's [TS]

  all get owned by fewer and fewer things [TS]

  they are starting to look more the same [TS]

  they're all making many SUVs I don't [TS]

  like the fact that cars are you know i [TS]

  like the diversity maybe it's just [TS]

  hindsight the diversity of the weirdness [TS]

  and cars that existed when i was younger [TS]

  i missed that in in the current market [TS]

  and how many many as an example of one [TS]

  still like up there's still some [TS]

  weirdness out there's weirdness I don't [TS]

  like but it's definitely weirdness and I [TS]

  like that it's out there [TS]