Special: Please Lose Control of Your Car Now


  it seems like doing accidental podcast [TS]

  is kind of our thing [TS]

  well because we can't really resist not [TS]

  talking about cars or not talking about [TS]

  tech right so one way or another both of [TS]

  these things is going to happen [TS]

  we've been doing accidental car podcasts [TS]

  in the after show after ATP but then [TS]

  usually you don't put them in the actual [TS]

  after-show so it's kind of like a live [TS]

  only like a reward / punishment for the [TS]

  live listeners hit the air talking about [TS]

  cars [TS]

  indeed and in this one is is actually [TS]

  very special because we have a special [TS]

  guest [TS]

  hello I'm nailed it and where . comedic [TS]

  timing is my specialty so it we have the [TS]

  very famous underscore david smith with [TS]

  us and there's a particular reason that [TS]

  those of us who pay attention [TS]

  we have already figured out we have an [TS]

  agenda tonight [TS]

  shockingly shockingly we actually do [TS]

  have a plan on the accidental car [TS]

  podcast so the three of the four of us [TS]

  actually did something fun about a week [TS]

  ago and one of us was curmudgeon and [TS]

  didn't now which of us would have been [TS]

  most likely to like not to have fun [TS]

  it's not being a chromogen there you [TS]

  would open it was incredibly wise [TS]

  decision and I'm very proud of myself [TS]

  for making it because I would have been [TS]

  so screwed if I'd gone through its so [TS]

  true when we continue to make fun of you [TS]

  for the rest of time [TS]

  okay see what were you doing when the [TS]

  apple event was happening in which [TS]

  Mavericks was announced and released i [TS]

  do believe i was driving somebody else's [TS]

  m3 at speed around a racetrack what were [TS]

  you doing marco i believe i was doing [TS]

  the same thing underscore I was right [TS]

  behind you [TS]

  well i would say right behind haha true [TS]

  story better start so what we're [TS]

  referring to [TS]

  for those of us who aren't keeping track [TS]

  is that underscore and Marco and I [TS]

  decided to go to BMW M Performance [TS]

  school the two-day version and this [TS]

  actually all started believing her not [TS]

  with underscores so do you want to kind [TS]

  of tell the origin story I mean surveyed [TS]

  only just got started it was a [TS]

  this last may I turned 30 so became an [TS]

  old man and as part of that I wanted [TS]

  things I've always wanted to do is maybe [TS]

  have stepped take a step back and say in [TS]

  a normal life I i drive-a 2005 to the [TS]

  corolla the car i love it's the only car [TS]

  I've ever owned and that's my history [TS]

  with cars though and one things I've [TS]

  always wondered about is what it's like [TS]

  to drive a car that's not a very looking [TS]

  a low-power continued economic [TS]

  economical vehicle and so like 1i try [TS]

  want to go to one of these kind of [TS]

  schools and so for my 30th birthday was [TS]

  the plan was like well do what I'll do [TS]

  as my sort of 30th birthday is present [TS]

  to myself or for my wife and so then the [TS]

  next step became to try and work out if [TS]

  i could find people who would be [TS]

  interested in doing such a thing and [TS]

  surprisingly i was able to convince by a [TS]

  lot of cajoling and arm-twisting mark [TS]

  when Casey into coming along with me [TS]

  whereby a lot of controlling [TS]

  arm-twisting you mean you asked us [TS]

  hey do you want to go 2 2day and [TS]

  performance driving school and I think [TS]

  the two of us said I'm yes exactly i [TS]

  think both me and Casey were just on the [TS]

  edge of just wanted to do this and just [TS]

  never having a specific excuse or reason [TS]

  to do it at a specific time and you gave [TS]

  us that yeah exactly [TS]

  now John what was your excuse myself for [TS]

  not going is super expensive i hate the [TS]

  travel and of the understand what's [TS]

  going on around that time is that all [TS]

  every i like you i think about it out [TS]

  like i know you guys had a lot of fun [TS]

  and everything but think of all the [TS]

  extra money I have to spend on my mac [TS]

  pro haha when Marco and I are you know [TS]

  talking about our fancy new mac pro's [TS]

  Casey you're gonna be like oh no I don't [TS]

  want to get one of those stupid [TS]

  computers is not so much money well you [TS]

  would have had all that money if you [TS]

  hadn't you know spent on driving but [TS]

  seriously I did I did seriously consider [TS]

  it for a long time so much so that I [TS]

  talk to my wife about said you can go if [TS]

  you want and I really thought about like [TS]

  you know what maybe i should just do [TS]

  this but I thought better of it in the [TS]

  end I'm actually impressed that you got [TS]

  that far is mi I assumed that you [TS]

  basically immediately vetoed it in your [TS]

  head and never even bothered asking [TS]

  anybody know that [TS]

  I mean it's like it's like you know it's [TS]

  like the youngster said I you figure [TS]

  what you want to see what it's like to [TS]

  drive the big fancy cars that you're [TS]

  never going to own and if you don't do [TS]

  it now when are you gonna do it like [TS]

  what am I going to do it myself no then [TS]

  you know a bunch of people who I know [TS]

  we're going that's the time to do it [TS]

  right but no but no well we were very [TS]

  disappointed not to have you with us [TS]

  John [TS]

  however we had a pretty good time and so [TS]

  I I don't know what the appropriate way [TS]

  to recap the trip is but maybe I should [TS]

  give the very very quick blow-by-blow of [TS]

  kind of what the schedule was and we can [TS]

  dig into the specifics afterwards so [TS]

  Marco either got volunteered or [TS]

  volunteered not sure which one it was to [TS]

  drive down from New York but you gave me [TS]

  an excuse to drive an awesome car for a [TS]

  few hours [TS]

  you're welcome for a lot of hours at [TS]

  well what you got to do a lot of the [TS]

  hours and also it doesn't it you know [TS]

  similar to how easily it was to convince [TS]

  me in case you to do this not at all [TS]

  it's pretty easy to convince me not to [TS]

  fly somewhere that's within driving [TS]

  distance because flying is just such a [TS]

  pain in the butt I will avoid it not a [TS]

  fear just out of I'd just hate it and so [TS]

  yeah it didn't take much convincing [TS]

  right so Marco drove down on like this [TS]

  was last Saturday I don't know i'm sorry [TS]

  the saturday before last it doesn't [TS]

  really matter he drove down on a [TS]

  Saturday and picked up underscore [TS]

  outside DC and then the two of them [TS]

  drove to Richmond where I am [TS]

  we all stay tonight richmond on that [TS]

  saturday night sunday we woke up got [TS]

  breakfast and then drove to spartanburg [TS]

  south carolina which is where the BMW [TS]

  factory is in the United States and what [TS]

  what do they build their is x3 x5 is [TS]

  that right it'sit's sum of the x's if [TS]

  not all the exes so they build some of [TS]

  the exes there which is of no surprise [TS]

  given that americans love their SUVs so [TS]

  on sunday we drove down we had dinner at [TS]

  the hotel in which BWW assigns us to [TS]

  stay and then monday and tuesday we [TS]

  spent all day driving in basically a [TS]

  quarter million dollars worth of em cars [TS]

  per person and then tuesday evening we [TS]

  drove back to richmond and on wednesday [TS]

  i went to my j.o.b job [TS]

  Marco and Dave return home to their [TS]

  lives of laser exactly those of us who [TS]

  have jlb jobs had to go back to work [TS]

  those of us you don't really have jobs [TS]

  could do whatever we wanted it must be [TS]

  tough it really is really and Virginia [TS]

  bagels are better than montreal bagels [TS]

  who big words i agree but big words are [TS]

  you getting bagels in Virginia that it [TS]

  was that what else you need for [TS]

  breakfast [TS]

  I don't know hush puppies haha [TS]

  there is a sonic drive-in about five [TS]

  minutes from my house which we could [TS]

  have gone to make a waffle house down [TS]

  there right [TS]

  yes they have waffle house and denny's [TS]

  and all those sorts of fattening [TS]

  terrible things unfortunately waffle [TS]

  house is not new to me at least because [TS]

  I'm from Ohio and it's everywhere in [TS]

  ohio people think it's only a southern [TS]

  thing but Ohio steals a lot of things [TS]

  from the south and tries to act like a [TS]

  normal and waffle house is so common in [TS]

  Ohio that my friends and I high school [TS]

  used to go to all the time that like you [TS]

  know one of the morning because it was [TS]

  open and nothing else really was and we [TS]

  would go to this one that was off of a [TS]

  an off ramp off of Interstate 70 where [TS]

  there's they get so much truck traffic [TS]

  and truckers i guess like the waffle [TS]

  house so much that there's one on both [TS]

  sides of the street so that no matter [TS]

  which side you get off with the truck [TS]

  you can just pour into a parking lot and [TS]

  then pull right back on the highway [TS]

  easily and there's enough business that [TS]

  to waffle houses across street from each [TS]

  other can stay in business [TS]

  that's Ohio for you in one little story [TS]

  so you miss it [TS]

  oh god so much the waffle house is just [TS]

  so incredibly something I it's there [TS]

  it's so incredibly there [TS]

  well to back up a step the bagels in [TS]

  Virginia are nowhere near New York [TS]

  bagels however I have found a place that [TS]

  is as good an imposter of New York bagel [TS]

  as one can reasonably expect 500 miles [TS]

  from New York and and Marco while he is [TS]

  not an official New Yorker he's an [TS]

  imposter New Yorker and I think you can [TS]

  vouch for me on this issue its name like [TS]

  mountain view or something [TS]

  what know the name of the place is [TS]

  Cupertino's oh that's right [TS]

  come on man anyway it's very good so [TS]

  yeah so we we went to the um school and [TS]

  it was pretty fantastic and it was funny [TS]

  because the most people who go to the [TS]

  school I have to imagine drive down in [TS]

  corollas in accord [TS]

  this and I don't know 328 and things of [TS]

  that nature [TS]

  what did we roll to BWW school in an m5 [TS]

  we were suffering to say the least [TS]

  although as it turns out there were [TS]

  others that did the same thing how many [TS]

  other and five drivers were there like [TS]

  three there were two others in our hotel [TS]

  at least and both of their way cleaner [TS]

  than mine [TS]

  well they also drove quite a bit less i [TS]

  do believe to get there but yeah but [TS]

  even underscore drove the m5 did he not [TS]

  on the way down [TS]

  yeah that was I was actually hoping glad [TS]

  I was a little concerned that are coming [TS]

  from a rather a popper background of my [TS]

  underpowered toyota's and Japanese cars [TS]

  that would be a little bit into like [TS]

  digital like on monday morning at be sat [TS]

  down in front of an empire like here's [TS]

  the keys are based on actual even really [TS]

  keys [TS]

  here's the magic thing that starts the [TS]

  car push the button and off you go and [TS]

  so a little bit i was glad that I was [TS]

  able to get some sort of get through the [TS]

  initial like pre-flight and stuff and [TS]

  marcos car and then just drive for a [TS]

  little bit on the interstate to get used [TS]

  to it before it actually counted sounds [TS]

  like Marco Polo Tom Sawyer on your to [TS]

  come and paint the fence it's really [TS]

  funny got you guys to basically show for [TS]

  him haha if you guys are gonna have to [TS]

  do all the driving driving driving fancy [TS]

  cars fun but at a certain point you're [TS]

  just hours and hours on the interstate [TS]

  and that's no fun [TS]

  well that's kind of the idea like that's [TS]

  one of the reasons why why I wanted a [TS]

  tutor for IV volunteer but you know why [TS]

  i made a drive the first leg from his [TS]

  house to casey's because I wanted to [TS]

  ease his fears about these incredibly [TS]

  powerful cars because the fact is you [TS]

  I mean there's something you know [TS]

  ridiculous cars like Ferraris are pretty [TS]

  hard to drive normally at low speeds [TS]

  because they're gearing and clutches and [TS]

  everything but but I wanted to show that [TS]

  sport sedans are still sedans and [TS]

  they're still made for the most part not [TS]

  to go on tracks you know most people who [TS]

  buy them don't take them on track as far [TS]

  as i know and they're in you can be you [TS]

  can drive these things normally every [TS]

  day and they just behave like normal [TS]

  cars just when you hit the gas really [TS]

  hard they behave little bit differently [TS]

  so Dave how would you describe the [TS]

  difference between the m5 in your daily [TS]

  driver [TS]

  it's bigger in decreasing as in normal [TS]

  use it is surprisingly similar in that [TS]

  that I'd I know it's terrible but it [TS]

  it's not very comfortable [TS]

  it has a massage your buttocks while you [TS]

  drive it touches which is very [TS]

  unsettling but yeah but it's a lot of [TS]

  fun it's it was interesting to look at [TS]

  the two things that I noticed about the [TS]

  world biggest thing that I noticed in it [TS]

  first from driving it that i would but i [TS]

  miss now going to my you know going back [TS]

  to my old corolla is that doesn't things [TS]

  like a heads-up display and a lot of [TS]

  kind of the new sword like that then [TS]

  your fancier technology that is just [TS]

  kind of fun and when you're driving or [TS]

  just makes it more useful and it is a [TS]

  little bit intoxicating that you can at [TS]

  any point you can suddenly like there's [TS]

  a gap in front of you that you'd like to [TS]

  be in you can instantaneously be in it [TS]

  in a way that the there's no pause or [TS]

  hesitation so it kind of forces a little [TS]

  bit of decisiveness into your driving [TS]

  style which is this serves as a little [TS]

  bit of fun [TS]

  so you're saying there's a BMW turns you [TS]

  into a kind of a jerk on the road haha [TS]

  not necessarily a jerk but it definitely [TS]

  think it definitely changes a little bit [TS]

  the way that you have to view driving [TS]

  because here we review the other cars [TS]

  pray you know it's it's like if you're [TS]

  Indiana is I'm not a particularly i'm [TS]

  not particularly big on firearms or guns [TS]

  but I imagine it's like the difference [TS]

  between if you have a small bowl 22 [TS]

  rifle or if you have a bazooka right you [TS]

  have to be careful about what you're [TS]

  gonna point at in a different way then [TS]

  you would otherwise because if you put [TS]

  your foot on the gas like if I put my [TS]

  phone my gas in my little four-cylinder [TS]

  car and I jam it down i'm not going to [TS]

  go anywhere particularly quickly i'm [TS]

  still going to be where I was a few [TS]

  minutes a few seconds ago at you know [TS]

  that later whereas in this it's you know [TS]

  your instantaneously you just jump 15 20 [TS]

  miles an hour and so you have to be much [TS]

  more conscious about what you're doing [TS]

  you should try downshifting first your [TS]

  camera oh wait [TS]

  automatic [TS]

  just rip you that's right is getting a [TS]

  chord camera rivalry going here it's a [TS]

  corolla new corolla that's right well [TS]

  yeah I feel bad for not that i say as i [TS]

  drive home in my 11 year old honda civic [TS]

  so ya see you two are brothers in your [TS]

  own special way [TS]

  so yeah so so we get to this BMW M [TS]

  school after having driven [TS]

  five-and-a-half hours are I i was part [TS]

  of five and a half hours of the drive [TS]

  from Richmond spartanburg there was a [TS]

  two-hour drive from Dave to me and was [TS]

  like a four and a half five hour drive [TS]

  from Marco dave is that right about that [TS]

  yeah so it was it was a hike but it was [TS]

  very worth it [TS]

  we were on interstate 85 for forever and [TS]

  a day and before that mark when Dave [TS]

  were on Interstate 95 forever and a day [TS]

  but we ended up in spartanburg and so [TS]

  come Monday morning we get on a bus from [TS]

  the hotel to the to the BMW factory and [TS]

  we get in the classroom and we see [TS]

  greeting us [TS]

  BMW M school two day course day one and [TS]

  we do a little bit of classroom [TS]

  instruction about all sorts of things [TS]

  about weight transfer about finding the [TS]

  apex finding the turning point what was [TS]

  the exit . i forget the term for it but [TS]

  something like that turnout turnout do [TS]

  something like that anyway so we get a [TS]

  little bit of casting classroom [TS]

  instruction track out i think track may [TS]

  whatever was so what you could tell we [TS]

  were paying close attention to the [TS]

  classroom portion because really all we [TS]

  wanted to do was get in the cars so for [TS]

  the two day in school the first day is [TS]

  just general here's what over Syria's [TS]

  here's what under serious here's how to [TS]

  find the racing line here so to find the [TS]

  apex or cornering . i believe they [TS]

  called it here's how to have a drive in [TS]

  general and all of these things on both [TS]

  days were happening in m3 which worry 90 [TS]

  m3 e92 m3 is which were on an MSRP if [TS]

  like 80,000 dollars they were in an eft [TS]

  NM x which have an MSRP like a hundred [TS]

  thousand dollars and I don't know the [TS]

  designation for the m6 is but there they [TS]

  list for like a hundred twenty thousand [TS]

  dollars so all told we have like 200 or [TS]

  250 thousand dollars at bmw's basically [TS]

  assigned to us and there are 15 people [TS]

  in the class we were split into three [TS]

  groups of five [TS]

  and so our group naturally was Marco and [TS]

  David myself and then two other people [TS]

  who are very very nice and and we [TS]

  basically spent the entire two days [TS]

  together the five of us and it was [TS]

  unbelievably fun and it all began with [TS]

  taking m3 is out onto a skidpad so [TS]

  market would you like to tell us about [TS]

  what the skidpad was all about [TS]

  well officially it's it's an exercise to [TS]

  teach you what understeer and oversteer [TS]

  feel like how how to avoid them at first [TS]

  and then how to create them if you want [TS]

  to and then you know how to regain [TS]

  control of your car in these situations [TS]

  in reality it's about drifting and to [TS]

  let you know that they do instruct you [TS]

  on those things but the idea is to [TS]

  finish the instruction of those quickly [TS]

  so that you can get to the fun drifting [TS]

  apart [TS]

  this was my second time on a skidpad the [TS]

  first time I was very bad at it and [TS]

  didn't really and didn't do any drifting [TS]

  because I was having enough trouble [TS]

  figuring out the the oversteer [TS]

  correction for whatever reason I don't [TS]

  know why but this time it just kind of [TS]

  clicked for me and so I figured out the [TS]

  the oversteer very quickly and then was [TS]

  able to some drifting it was pretty fun [TS]

  it was a really cool experience because [TS]

  you usually you are not told to please [TS]

  lose control of your car right now and [TS]

  and even if you do lose control of your [TS]

  car in and unintentionally usually your [TS]

  car's traction control comes on and says [TS]

  yet that's not going to happen but in [TS]

  this case we're on a a wet and [TS]

  constantly being sprayed down polished [TS]

  concrete pad driving in a tight circle [TS]

  with a 400-horsepower rear-wheel-drive [TS]

  car with the traction control turn all [TS]

  the way off and so it we were able to [TS]

  kick the rear end out at like 20 miles [TS]

  an hour and it was really cool [TS]

  what do you think of it Casey so I had [TS]

  previously a couple of cars ago had a [TS]

  rear-wheel-drive 300zx which was not the [TS]

  turbo version and was very underpowered [TS]

  but coming around to turn i was able to [TS]

  if I stood in the gas get a little bit [TS]

  of induced oversteer and control it [TS]

  reasonably well [TS]

  when I was on the skid pad in the 400 [TS]

  horsepower m3 I got a lot of oversteer [TS]

  with very little control of any of it [TS]

  and it's funny after having had to [TS]

  all-wheel-drive cars how hard it is for [TS]

  me to go back to controlling a [TS]

  rear-wheel-drive car in power on [TS]

  overseer and I spun constantly and I [TS]

  felt like a moron but I did learn a lot [TS]

  and and I really learned a lot about [TS]

  understeer actually so oversteers when [TS]

  the back end comes around when you don't [TS]

  expect it to or perhaps when you do [TS]

  expect it to and under stairs when [TS]

  you're trying to turn but the cars just [TS]

  kind of sliding out of the turn when you [TS]

  don't want it to and I did learn a lot [TS]

  about what understeer feels like and how [TS]

  you can better judge when it's about to [TS]

  happen but this is all coming from [TS]

  someone who's had a rear-wheel-drive car [TS]

  in my life before one of us however has [TS]

  never had a rear-wheel-drive car so Dave [TS]

  what did you think about the skidpad the [TS]

  skidpad i think was actually it for all [TS]

  the things that we did I think it was [TS]

  the exercise of the thing i think [TS]

  actually learned the most practical [TS]

  knowledge or so that'll actually improve [TS]

  my driving just in normal day-to-day [TS]

  experience because I think prior to this [TS]

  that I've only ever lost like actually [TS]

  lost reserve lost control or lost [TS]

  traction of my car a couple of times [TS]

  usually it's in very bad so you're very [TS]

  bad driving you're driving service [TS]

  situations where we are very rainy very [TS]

  wet very many people I see that kind of [TS]

  thing but it was interesting to see how [TS]

  quickly you could develop i guess like [TS]

  almost like the muscle memory to get [TS]

  yourself out of that situation when [TS]

  you're sweeter when you when you used to [TS]

  lose control of the car whether the [TS]

  front of the back and how after just [TS]

  doing it after doing it whatever 10-15 [TS]

  times you're able to very quickly be [TS]

  catching yourself and that was [TS]

  reinforced actual crisis earlier but [TS]

  later on and during the week during the [TS]

  the couple of days where I be [TS]

  I messed up a line or something and i [TS]

  actually just Gino genuinely created one [TS]

  of these two things i was able to [TS]

  correct it before I realized it was [TS]

  happening [TS]

  and so in that sense it was kind of [TS]

  interesting I mean beyond just the fact [TS]

  that it was kind of a crazy experience [TS]

  did the first time it's like you just [TS]

  gets you know sort of sets it on a car [TS]

  like followme after the skid pad and now [TS]

  I want you to jam your foot into the gas [TS]

  on this super slippery surface and the [TS]

  first time in court like the first time [TS]

  either just spun around in a circle but [TS]

  it was an interesting experience to kind [TS]

  of gig get a feel for what color car [TS]

  actually responds at the limit like that [TS]

  where normally you either have to be [TS]

  going sort of moronically quickly to do [TS]

  that or you under the circumstance where [TS]

  the road conditions which is terrible [TS]

  and so doing it in a way that you're [TS]

  only going 20 25 35 miles an hour and [TS]

  still being able to do it was just a [TS]

  really constructive activity I think you [TS]

  just need snow that's all you need to [TS]

  know in the park people up in the North [TS]

  I mean I haven't driven real drive car [TS]

  I think maybe ever married that mean you [TS]

  got your vulva [TS]

  well yeah I guess that count of eighty [TS]

  like 80 horsepower anyway but but in the [TS]

  snow i'm very experienced taking [TS]

  front-wheel drive hondas around in [TS]

  circles though because when it's when [TS]

  they haven't plowed the parking lot and [TS]

  you're there and there's no one else [TS]

  there do a couple Donuts you know slide [TS]

  around mean you can't help it and and [TS]

  you can do that like three miles an hour [TS]

  because it's to police like and covered [TS]

  with you know back down ice and snow so [TS]

  that's something that people in the [TS]

  South miss out i will say also a before [TS]

  we leave the skidpad topic that this was [TS]

  this was the exercise especially the [TS]

  first time people are on the skid pad [TS]

  it's the exercise where people fail the [TS]

  most you know you you've tried to [TS]

  correct them and you spin around and you [TS]

  gotta stop and turn around and start [TS]

  again and the instructors handled this [TS]

  amazingly well like they're very [TS]

  encouraging it's not you know they and [TS]

  they explained this to his most people [TS]

  who go to the school are not necessarily [TS]

  car not a lot there's a lot of like [TS]

  corporate groups there's a lot of people [TS]

  who are taking delivery of BMW there and [TS]

  do do like a one-day thing like this [TS]

  they have a lot of novices that go there [TS]

  and so they're not only are they [TS]

  tolerant of novices but they're they're [TS]

  very encouraging and they're very [TS]

  patient with you and and they they [TS]

  explain things very well when you are [TS]

  doing it wrong [TS]

  and they're they're encouraging up to [TS]

  say all right try again you know and [TS]

  it's it was a very very nice mood and I [TS]

  had this both with this one I did and [TS]

  the thing i did last year at lime rock [TS]

  which is this a different portion of the [TS]

  same team that put on the event both [TS]

  times it be that the instructors really [TS]

  really good for novices especially yeah [TS]

  anything you can really just reiterate [TS]

  that coming from having no experience [TS]

  with this type of thing and bonsly being [TS]

  a little intimidated about whether i [TS]

  should even do it in the first place [TS]

  that I kind of had this fear going into [TS]

  it that I just you know be completely [TS]

  out of my league from you know from the [TS]

  start and it wouldn't be fun because the [TS]

  whole time it would be a service that [TS]

  sort of if I if I showed up at some [TS]

  professional sports team practice and [TS]

  tried to do a workout i just would be [TS]

  destroyed like it would be wise with [TS]

  this i felt i would love to see that it [TS]

  would be it would be able to be [TS]

  comically bad [TS]

  whereas I think they were able to do [TS]

  here is they're very able to think [TS]

  quickly judge your skill level based on [TS]

  where you where you're coming from and [TS]

  they just like well I'm just going to [TS]

  teach you whatever whatever ten percent [TS]

  beyond what you're capable of now i'll [TS]

  be encouraging you on that and once you [TS]

  get that will do the next one to the [TS]

  next and I just always felt that it was [TS]

  it its it you know you didn't need to be [TS]

  somehow you already know all the things [TS]

  which makes sense i guess in a sense of [TS]

  what's the point of the school if ever [TS]

  they expect you to know what you're [TS]

  doing before you get there but it's [TS]

  definitely kind of nice a nice [TS]

  experience that you didn't [TS]

  yeah there's no assumption i mean it's [TS]

  almost a little bit insane that they [TS]

  just sort of let you the huge know [TS]

  here's this very overpowered you know [TS]

  expensive car go off and now drive [TS]

  around on a on a slick surface with [TS]

  basically no no instruction prior to [TS]

  that beyond some of the stuff that we've [TS]

  done in the classroom but it was [TS]

  basically just you know sort of here it [TS]

  is go and from there they are just kind [TS]

  of able to get your sister to build [TS]

  build your confidence up from there they [TS]

  also put a really high level of trust in [TS]

  you like for a lot of the exercises will [TS]

  get to they just you know most of the [TS]

  time you just put in a car and they say [TS]

  all right you know here's how you put [TS]

  the car and drive go and and they're not [TS]

  like babysitting you [TS]

  we're giving you tons of sorts of a kind [TS]

  of a kind of plunging you into the deep [TS]

  end with like oh my god i'm suddenly [TS]

  driving a very expensive car with not a [TS]

  whole lot of instruction before i got [TS]

  into it but if they trust you you know [TS]

  everyone's adults they did they know [TS]

  that you've driven before and they know [TS]

  you know they know that you're not going [TS]

  to like intentionally reckless giant [TS]

  expensive cars with you in it [TS]

  yeah and as it turns out one of the [TS]

  three of us actually did sort of kind of [TS]

  rac1 of the expensive cars that's an [TS]

  overstatement [TS]

  so the next thing we did was a cornering [TS]

  lesson which taught us about you know [TS]

  where is the where is the apex where do [TS]

  you corner [TS]

  how do you leave a corner how to enter a [TS]

  corner [TS]

  it was a lot about that there were a few [TS]

  things that i took from the course which [TS]

  were very interesting [TS]

  firstly it was that the apex is way [TS]

  further towards the back of the corner [TS]

  than I would have expected did you guys [TS]

  feel the same way or did you know that [TS]

  this was the way things were I think [TS]

  that's right [TS]

  hey a dog had never really thought about [TS]

  it in quite those terms but i think it [TS]

  was interesting all the corners are laid [TS]

  out with cones essentially to try and [TS]

  help teach you exactly what you're [TS]

  looking for and it was definitely i took [TS]

  a lot of practice to turn your my [TS]

  instinct is honest you're awesome you're [TS]

  also fighting years and years of teach [TS]

  of driving in the normal manner where [TS]

  you're accelerating slowly breaking [TS]

  slowly and turning gently and so [TS]

  teaching yourself that you can turn in [TS]

  much much much later than you actually [TS]

  would normally and me and that's [TS]

  actually the better line if you're [TS]

  trying to go around quickly i think is [TS]

  very interesting to kind of experience [TS]

  and see the way that idea definitely [TS]

  wouldn't have guessed that that's how [TS]

  you know that's how you take a corner [TS]

  that late and that sharply marcos played [TS]

  racing games on video games right of [TS]

  either you two played racing games mario [TS]

  kart haha not really a simulation level [TS]

  i have played a little bit of great [TS]

  trees on my day but not a lot and never [TS]

  seriously enough to really discover what [TS]

  the proper line through return is where [TS]

  I mean John did you do you feel like you [TS]

  know the proper lines return because I i [TS]

  thought i did and I clearly did not i [TS]

  don't like the simulation game [TS]

  but believe it I although I just said [TS]

  you know America is not really an [TS]

  accurate simulation you you do learn one [TS]

  thing you learned Mary car because of [TS]

  the massive rubber banding from the [TS]

  enemies like they that people on a [TS]

  rubber banding is that means they if you [TS]

  play very well may I plays very well you [TS]

  know to catch up to you to know you can [TS]

  never leave them behind entirely right [TS]

  so it comes down and things like wave [TS]

  race and stuff like that he's arcade [TS]

  type racers that I've no no relation to [TS]

  real driving the one thing they do have [TS]

  in common is that you do eventually have [TS]

  to learn what the fastest line to the [TS]

  turn is because the only thing that [TS]

  separating you from the relentless AI [TS]

  it's always going to be like you know [TS]

  right on your butt is that you have to [TS]

  take the fastest line to the term [TS]

  because once you get the AI cranked up [TS]

  to that in a really high level if you [TS]

  make even the smallest mistake and go [TS]

  like a little bit wide or leave a little [TS]

  bit room or don't hit the apex or you [TS]

  know don't hit the power-ups and all the [TS]

  other crazy things maybe they'll punish [TS]

  you and you lose the race so if you get [TS]

  into American American targets humans or [TS]

  are the computer you will eventually get [TS]

  that kind of punishing racing type [TS]

  experience of like that term is fine i [TS]

  just missed it by just like that much [TS]

  and now you're in second place and so it [TS]

  you eventually learn yet where the thing [TS]

  is of course but you don't learn is how [TS]

  would be in a real car to break that [TS]

  amount and how much you have to apply [TS]

  pressure to pedals they need to save [TS]

  buttons or whatever but the lines are [TS]

  kind of similar although in a racing [TS]

  game with weapons like mario kart or my [TS]

  first game of Wipeout getting back on a [TS]

  straight line after return and being as [TS]

  straight as possible for as long as [TS]

  possible is actually a terrible idea [TS]

  then people can hit you with green [TS]

  shells were behind ya like America [TS]

  that's a strange dynamic we're sliding [TS]

  sideways makes you go faster which is [TS]

  silly and an unrealistic but it sliding [TS]

  sideways takes away some control from [TS]

  your steering because you can't [TS]

  first you have to it initiate the [TS]

  sideways slide and then you have to [TS]

  control the slide and in that respect [TS]

  it's similar to what i imagine driving [TS]

  would be like is that to you know you [TS]

  you to hit that line to hit the line [TS]

  perfectly and to get your speed match [TS]

  and everything it's not as simple as [TS]

  like dododo kind of roll through the [TS]

  turnover ever yet they then you at the [TS]

  line but you won't be going fast to go [TS]

  fast and hit the turn of the same time [TS]

  is very difficult you don't have the [TS]

  kind of control you have if you like you [TS]

  would have your point into a parking lot [TS]

  or a parking spot or something like that [TS]

  you have so many things are going on [TS]

  with the car that moment [TS]

  it's not so easy to just point the card [TS]

  line sure you're gonna have to sling the [TS]

  car and hope your you know everything is [TS]

  alright so you're gonna hit that apex [TS]

  and if your office all you can just [TS]

  stare back and get it because you know [TS]

  if you trace your line on the course [TS]

  you'll be strange wiggles and things [TS]

  will go bad for you and you'll end up [TS]

  along the grass and bad things i will [TS]

  tell you though that I can drift like a [TS]

  champion in Mario Kart and I cannot [TS]

  drift like a champion in real life as [TS]

  that found out but I'm with you so yeah [TS]

  I think I think with two days of [TS]

  instruction we all combined got maybe [TS]

  ten straight seconds of drifting that's [TS]

  probably true and i was looking through [TS]

  my footage which we'll get to in a [TS]

  moment in in the m5 on the second day I [TS]

  actually got a couple of decent trips [TS]

  but i wouldn't say they were good drifts [TS]

  but yeah so so on day one in the morning [TS]

  the second thing we did was cornering a [TS]

  course where we learned about the apex [TS]

  we learned how did that they really [TS]

  stressed looking where the car where you [TS]

  want the car to go not where the car is [TS]

  and that sounds really simple and silly [TS]

  but man I don't know about you two but [TS]

  it was hard for me and it took me until [TS]

  the afternoon at the earliest for that [TS]

  to really click and for me to understand [TS]

  that if I'm trying to hit an apex where [TS]

  they pretty much tell you to do [TS]

  everything but run over the cone that [TS]

  they put on the apex is an indicator of [TS]

  where it is it's very hard not to look [TS]

  at that and prevent yourself from [TS]

  hitting it and instead look further down [TS]

  the road and just have faith that your [TS]

  hands will figure out where to point the [TS]

  car and eventually if I forced myself to [TS]

  do that to look down the road and just [TS]

  have faith in my hands [TS]

  it actually really does work but man is [TS]

  a counterintuitive with everything I've [TS]

  learned and Marco did you feel the same [TS]

  way or was this like second nature for [TS]

  you [TS]

  oh definitely I mean you know like David [TS]

  said earlier a lot of a lot of the [TS]

  difficulty and in doing this well was [TS]

  over right in your instincts of normal [TS]

  driving because you know they they teach [TS]

  and i don't i'm not an expert enough to [TS]

  know whether this is you know how [TS]

  universal this is but they teach [TS]

  something called threshold break [TS]

  can which is you basically accelerate as [TS]

  hard as you can during the straightaways [TS]

  and then at the last possible second you [TS]

  brake as hard as you can before you turn [TS]

  to look yourself down to whatever you [TS]

  need to be and so it's just extreme like [TS]

  heart but the hundreds on acceleration [TS]

  two hundred percent breaking and then [TS]

  you turn and and you you turn in a way [TS]

  that like you start out really wide on [TS]

  the turn and he like cut in and hit the [TS]

  apex and the like smooth your way out [TS]

  and it makes sense why you do that may [TS]

  explain why you do that but because that [TS]

  is so unlike normal driving I it was [TS]

  very it was very hard to to get like you [TS]

  it never became that instinctual I had [TS]

  it I'd like think about every move like [TS]

  okay hit that apex go to the turnout [TS]

  like I had to like it was like [TS]

  emulations of had like think about every [TS]

  instruction i was doing he never became [TS]

  like a fluid thing for me and I'm sure [TS]

  I'm sure that if I did this very [TS]

  frequently maybe it would be but one [TS]

  thing I thought was very interesting was [TS]

  on the last day the main instructor had [TS]

  said that any structures are all like [TS]

  you know racing drivers who are have [TS]

  often you know Ben pros or were pros for [TS]

  many years are still are pros and done [TS]

  lots of racing and and and the [TS]

  instructor said that even still like [TS]

  when he's gonna need it does a long race [TS]

  sometimes he'll get tired and he'll [TS]

  start and he'll start forgetting to like [TS]

  look way ahead and and you know start [TS]

  forgetting some of the technique and [TS]

  start reverting back to automatic [TS]

  driving behavior for everyday use and he [TS]

  starts doing very badly and he so even [TS]

  this instructor has been doing this for [TS]

  years and years and years and doesn't [TS]

  professionally even he can revert back [TS]

  to non ideal behavior because these are [TS]

  against your instincts they find [TS]

  themselves driving to work like we're [TS]

  going to work now what's going on here [TS]

  is that when you're driving your car and [TS]

  something that you don't play that story [TS]

  going so they find out you're going to [TS]

  work [TS]

  maybe maybe not Marco yeah don't have to [TS]

  work that can drive to the store drives [TS]

  to a friends house I do that all the [TS]

  time maybe some i'm walking around my [TS]

  house and I accidentally walk into the [TS]

  office [TS]

  haha but you know it's like when I'm [TS]

  driving driving my kids to one of their [TS]

  activities or something i realize i'm [TS]

  i'm on my way to work I don't know [TS]

  no this is not where the activity is [TS]

  stopped going to work on autopilot John [TS]

  as someone who actually has a j.o.b job [TS]

  i totally understand what you're talking [TS]

  about [TS]

  don't listen to these two did they have [TS]

  the breaking points marked out on the [TS]

  track for you in the beginning like a [TS]

  big big cone the whole time they had [TS]

  cones on for every every time there was [TS]

  like a point we get them to get enough [TS]

  speed for you had to plan on the brakes [TS]

  they would have liked 321 cones like [TS]

  this like first of three then two than [TS]

  one to tell you like you should really [TS]

  break you know in this range and you can [TS]

  figure out for yourself you know whether [TS]

  you want to break out the 30 the 20 or [TS]

  whatever and at every turn had the [TS]

  return in the apex end-to-end the track [TS]

  out all all marked with cone so every [TS]

  turn was coned the whole time so it was [TS]

  really it was not about you figure out [TS]

  what the best way through this because [TS]

  they know that we're all amateurs only [TS]

  there for two days you know how much how [TS]

  much figure out can we do in two days [TS]

  with are you know first time on tracks [TS]

  they but so it was really more about [TS]

  technique and just like and learning for [TS]

  the very first time like oh this is how [TS]

  you drive and track which is nothing [TS]

  like driving in the real world so they [TS]

  did a time your laps some of them in [TS]

  some instances you have to understand [TS]

  that the BMW Performance Center which is [TS]

  the track at the BMW factory it's a [TS]

  pretty big track by my measure which is [TS]

  to say the only tracks have been honor [TS]

  this and the Nurburgring it's nowhere [TS]

  near the Nurburgring but as what I [TS]

  envisioned as a track it was fairly big [TS]

  and over the course of the two days we [TS]

  were there were three groups of five [TS]

  like i mentioned earlier all operating [TS]

  on different subsections of the track [TS]

  and it wasn't until the afternoon of the [TS]

  second day that they kind of linked the [TS]

  entire track together to build one major [TS]

  track for lack of a better word I don't [TS]

  know how else to describe it so it's for [TS]

  example on the I'm gonna call the [TS]

  western half and may not have actually [TS]

  been the western half that's where the [TS]

  skid pad was and that's where this big [TS]

  sweeping corner was which they call the [TS]

  man turn her man curve that's their name [TS]

  not our [TS]

  and then on the eastern side of the [TS]

  track is where they initially set up a [TS]

  slalom which was on monday afternoon and [TS]

  and there were there was a corkscrew as [TS]

  well that we encountered either monday [TS]

  afternoon or tuesday morning and so it [TS]

  wasn't until this end of the second day [TS]

  that they kind of link the corkscrew in [TS]

  the slalom and the man turned the [TS]

  skidpad all together to make one [TS]

  tremendous track and man that was fun [TS]

  but I'm getting ahead of myself [TS]

  alright so monday morning we did skip [TS]

  had weed cornering we did handling and [TS]

  then we had lunch then lunch was nice [TS]

  but I'm remarkable and I do feel like [TS]

  because I don't want to leave this out [TS]

  there were like six instructors for a [TS]

  total of fifteen people and what [TS]

  happened was we would we would have an [TS]

  instructor to with us for any given [TS]

  event if you will and they would give us [TS]

  walkie-talkies which I'm sure [TS]

  transmitted but the point was not for us [TS]

  to talk back to them but for them to be [TS]

  able to tell us what are we doing right [TS]

  what are we doing wrong and I i really [TS]

  want to make it clear that these [TS]

  instructors like marco was saying were [TS]

  on believably patient and unbelievably [TS]

  good and it wasn't until the very last [TS]

  event of the second day that we realized [TS]

  how good they really were but they were [TS]

  all incredibly incredibly good and they [TS]

  were various ages and all of them were [TS]

  very different and have very different [TS]

  styles and very and they were very [TS]

  different but all of them consistently [TS]

  were patient and courteous and kind and [TS]

  I i really think without that group of [TS]

  instructors this experience would have [TS]

  been totally different [TS]

  it's very clear that to be an instructor [TS]

  at this place like they don't [TS]

  it isn't just like well you can drive [TS]

  okay you're in like obviously these [TS]

  instructors reader-writer picked for [TS]

  having these qualities or are trained [TS]

  extremely well and really pick it up and [TS]

  have a knack for it for it for being not [TS]

  only able to to drive cars well but to [TS]

  to explain and be patient with people [TS]

  and teach them how to do it and and it's [TS]

  that's a skill you know being a good [TS]

  teacher is a very valuable skill that [TS]

  that is not [TS]

  it does not come naturally to too many [TS]

  people and the these people all had it [TS]

  and they were really good yesterday what [TS]

  did you think about the instructors as [TS]

  someone who was and i know you touched [TS]

  on this earlier but as someone who was [TS]

  not terribly confident about what you're [TS]

  getting yourself into [TS]

  I mean do you feel like they made a [TS]

  difference for you yeah i mean i think [TS]

  the interesting part of course is like [TS]

  the a ballot definitely oscillated a [TS]

  little bit between the times that they [TS]

  were you know these are the [TS]

  encouragement and at the other times [TS]

  when it felt like they're asking me to [TS]

  do something that I couldn't do like the [TS]

  number of times i heard things like it's [TS]

  like it's like more speed Dave more [TS]

  speed more speed [TS]

  you're not going fast enough for the [TS]

  rest of course more amusing one was [TS]

  you're in the wrong gear which is great [TS]

  because i was driving an automatic mode [TS]

  so that was nothing I could do anything [TS]

  I can't like that if you could hear what [TS]

  I'm saying in the car i'm just yelling [TS]

  back at them it's like I know but I [TS]

  can't fix it so there's definitely a [TS]

  sort of oscillates between those things [TS]

  of their telling you it's like at some [TS]

  point it gets its encourage great [TS]

  weather and telling you both [TS]

  this is like this is what you should be [TS]

  doing this is what you should be doing [TS]

  at some point you're like that's great [TS]

  you can do it and then every now and [TS]

  then they'll do something that's ask you [TS]

  to do something a little bit beyond what [TS]

  you can do and you're like I got nothing [TS]

  like I that I appreciate what you're [TS]

  saying but you know i just i mean i [TS]

  don't think i dont the confidence of the [TS]

  skill to be able to accomplish that [TS]

  so monday afternoon we started with the [TS]

  m5 in a timed handling course and the [TS]

  way this worked was we had half of the [TS]

  skidpad that we used in the morning and [TS]

  it was still wet so if that skip has big [TS]

  circle we add a half circle so under yet [TS]

  800 degrees to skip and it was still [TS]

  getting soaked and the rest of the [TS]

  course was a regular road course [TS]

  including some fairly fast fits and it [TS]

  was funny because in the classroom right [TS]

  after launch on monday afternoon they [TS]

  said to us a listen when you go in do [TS]

  the big time lapse in the m5 you have to [TS]

  understand the m5 has what 550 [TS]

  horsepower and lex to 560 horsepower and [TS]

  a million torques from 0 RPM and even [TS]

  though you will come off the skidpad on [TS]

  to drive pavement [TS]

  things may look dry but the reality of [TS]

  the situation is your rear well all [TS]

  wheels but particular rear wheels will [TS]

  still be wet and one of the analogies [TS]

  that Donnie the head instructor used was [TS]

  imagine that there were that there is a [TS]

  string tied to the bottom of your [TS]

  steering wheel to the top of your right [TS]

  foot so if you turn the wheel either [TS]

  direction that string is going to be [TS]

  taught it's going to force you to its [TS]

  going to pull your foot off the gas [TS]

  pedal and then as you bring the wheel [TS]

  back to Center that string will have a [TS]

  little more loot will have a little more [TS]

  slack and you can get back on the gas [TS]

  and so what they said was listen and [TS]

  they said this several times you really [TS]

  need to be careful coming off the [TS]

  skidpad because even when you're on [TS]

  pavement that looks dry it it may not be [TS]

  as dry as you think [TS]

  furthermore as everyone is doing this [TS]

  course all five of you are doing this [TS]

  course and then the other two groups of [TS]

  five either before or after you this [TS]

  water that's only on the skid pad it's [TS]

  going to get spread out so that in mind [TS]

  we took our m5's onto this course and i [TS]

  should note that i believe on Monday [TS]

  Marco what color was your m5 I i forgot [TS]

  it must have been with a good color like [TS]

  black or maybe the orange of the blue [TS]

  Dave do you remember what color markers [TS]

  and five was I actually do I was right [TS]

  behind him the whole time I believe it [TS]

  was you know I thought it was white as [TS]

  well and you know kids if you don't [TS]

  think harm is real whether or not you're [TS]

  religious whether or not you believe in [TS]

  such hocus-pocus karma is real because [TS]

  Marco for most of the two days had white [TS]

  m cars and i can tell you nothing about [TS]

  this trip made me happier than Marco [TS]

  being in white cars pretty much the [TS]

  whole time it was fantastic and I [TS]

  remember we're talking about i'm sure [TS]

  you don't lock it up [TS]

  nah it wasn't white on the inside right [TS]

  Marco no not at all it was it was nice [TS]

  and black on the inside and that's the [TS]

  part i saw yeah that's it [TS]

  so anyway so we do this in the beginning [TS]

  of monday afternoon again we split up [TS]

  into three groups of three we all do [TS]

  different things but we ended up on this [TS]

  big lap first and so I don't recall [TS]

  exactly how many laps of [TS]

  that I'd done a lot you know it was it [TS]

  was a few it was towards the end I think [TS]

  but I come off the skidpad in the m5 and [TS]

  i feel i'm feeling pretty confident and [TS]

  if you as you come off the skidpad you [TS]

  make a very slight right turn [TS]

  there's a very small straightaway and [TS]

  then there's a 90-degree right into a [TS]

  90-degree left so it's an extern I come [TS]

  off the skid pad and I get onto the dry [TS]

  pavement and I think to myself self [TS]

  you're in the dry pavement now you can [TS]

  give her [TS]

  you can give her some boob but you can [TS]

  what you can do you know what stop here [TS]

  give her some boot [TS]

  yes do you not want to talk to you come [TS]

  on I i can drop the hammer don't call [TS]

  the trunk they call the boot yeah anyway [TS]

  that's what being the point being i can [TS]

  stand on the gas is that better for you [TS]

  anyway so I come off the skidpad i'm on [TS]

  dry pavement or so I think and my tires [TS]

  are dry or so i think and i get on the [TS]

  gas a little too hard and a little too [TS]

  aggressively and next thing i know the [TS]

  front of the car is pointed at a [TS]

  90-degree angle to the road and [TS]

  following that just a mere moment later [TS]

  the next thing i know i am now in the [TS]

  grass and doing a 360 in the grass and [TS]

  what I haven't mentioned yet is that in [TS]

  the lunch they have right after lunch on [TS]

  Monday they came around with em badged [TS]

  USB keys which ended up in eight gig USB [TS]

  keys and they said hey listen we have [TS]

  this magical slumbered telemetry box in [TS]

  the trunk of every car and we have a USB [TS]

  extension cord receptacle running into [TS]

  the center console of every car as you [TS]

  get into each car plug this magical USB [TS]

  key into the magical USB receptacle and [TS]

  you'll notice that there is a camera [TS]

  pointed forward to see out the front [TS]

  window and there's a camera on the [TS]

  a-pillar on the passenger side pointed [TS]

  at you and what ended up happening was [TS]

  they these magical telemetry boxes would [TS]

  record the two videos as well symmetry [TS]

  for what you're doing on to this USB key [TS]

  and so I video which will put in the [TS]

  show notes assuming we have to post this [TS]

  of me spinning out in somebody else's f [TS]

  I've been going into the grass and the [TS]

  really funny part of this is that right [TS]

  after I spin out and at the very end of [TS]

  the video because the videos [TS]

  automatically stop when the car stops [TS]

  you hear everything and that's the end [TS]

  of the video so i think of both days if [TS]

  i'm not mistaken was I the only person [TS]

  that went off the track [TS]

  yeah i was gonna ask you how many other [TS]

  people went to the grass and I didn't I [TS]

  i believe i was the only one there were [TS]

  a lot of close to home [TS]

  that's what i believe i was the only one [TS]

  you know if if you if you didn't go into [TS]

  the grass that probably means you aren't [TS]

  driving hard to thank you John you don't [TS]

  like everything like the whole thing [TS]

  you're trying to do in this in this you [TS]

  know learning how to drive like a [TS]

  racecar whatever is it you know you're [TS]

  always going to feel like you're going [TS]

  to turn too fast you're always going to [TS]

  feel like there's not enough room to [TS]

  break you know what I mean anyway and [TS]

  like what you're trying to work your way [TS]

  up to is the point where you really [TS]

  don't believe you're not yourself enough [TS]

  room to break and you really do end up [TS]

  you know under staring into the grass so [TS]

  you really do put out a hit on the gas [TS]

  too much coming out of turn and end up [TS]

  spinning it around so I think Casey [TS]

  should wear his lawn mowing adventure as [TS]

  a badge of honor [TS]

  now that would make that's a very good [TS]

  point John that [TS]

  yeah maybe Casey was actually driving [TS]

  the fastest so Casey how did you do on [TS]

  the lap times [TS]

  well I don't believe what do we ever [TS]

  hear times from this we did here x later [TS]

  and I know what you're driving at but I [TS]

  don't know that we ever heard times from [TS]

  this so let me let me come back that I'm [TS]

  not gonna dodge sure let's come back to [TS]

  that but suffice to say one way or [TS]

  another i believe of the two days I was [TS]

  the only one who went off and when we [TS]

  got back to the paddock or pit or [TS]

  whatever you'd like to call it i did all [TS]

  of us got out of the cars and Dave [TS]

  walked up to me and Dave do you remember [TS]

  exactly what you said hey I just remarks [TS]

  and how I was kind of impressed that you [TS]

  found some time to do some gardening in [TS]

  the middle of our intensive driving [TS]

  directly when we get back and we're like [TS]

  you know we didn't know until we got to [TS]

  the cars because Dave and I were not [TS]

  within visible distance of seeing this [TS]

  we didn't know who we know somebody [TS]

  caused us to off to stop for for like 30 [TS]

  seconds while they figure it out and so [TS]

  we got in the car and both of our cars [TS]

  are nice and clean look at caseys it's [TS]

  covered in dirt [TS]

  what I was not it [TS]

  Casey I'm grasping his teeth and now [TS]

  surprisingly nor did I have any in the [TS]

  front grille but yes I was the one who [TS]

  achieved going off track for the entire [TS]

  two days now there were some very close [TS]

  calls from others and unfortunately none [TS]

  of those people are Marco or Dave but [TS]

  there were some very close calls however [TS]

  I was the only one who actually achieved [TS]

  going off the track and doing a spot of [TS]

  gardening but that's ok so tuesday or [TS]

  excuse me monday afternoon we continued [TS]

  by doing another slalom and therefore [TS]

  it's actually I'm sorry was a time [TS]

  course I think this is what marco was [TS]

  referring to the next thing we did was [TS]

  we took the m3's into this time course [TS]

  we did a slalom then we did this hard [TS]

  break into a box that was as wide as 2 [TS]

  or 3 m3 is but only as deep as about 1 [TS]

  m3 and the mission here was to stop in [TS]

  the box and do the entire course as [TS]

  quickly as possible and if you went [TS]

  outside of the box either because you [TS]

  stopped his 22 sooner you stop too late [TS]

  then they would add time to your [TS]

  official time so i think was a two [TS]

  second penalty if you stopped too soon [TS]

  or too late and marcos driving at is [TS]

  despite the fact that i tried to drive [TS]

  the doors off of this m3 i do believe [TS]

  Marco beat me by like five tenths of a [TS]

  second five hundreds of the second one [TS]

  of the other is that right [TS]

  it was very close i mean the funny thing [TS]

  was there was there were a few events [TS]

  where the instructors time to everybody [TS]

  and and then David they posted the [TS]

  results in a little sheet you could look [TS]

  at lunch you could look at and and none [TS]

  of us were spectacular [TS]

  the funny thing was between the three of [TS]

  us you know we were driving very [TS]

  differently [TS]

  Casey was was you know pretty good i was [TS]

  sloppy [TS]

  Casey was consistent I was not I had [TS]

  some laps that beat him but I never had [TS]

  like you know a full eventbrite where I [TS]

  beat him by a notable amount and dave [TS]

  was driving like a corolla owner haha [TS]

  and yet the three of us all had [TS]

  extremely similar times like it [TS]

  that was one of the most interesting [TS]

  information about this to me is that I [TS]

  felt like you you feel like you're [TS]

  driving very differently out there [TS]

  then you get back into co well you know [TS]

  there's actually a lot of ways to do [TS]

  this and like if you start getting [TS]

  sloppy and started like you know losing [TS]

  control here and there and kicking the [TS]

  butt out here and there for like a [TS]

  little like quarter of a second [TS]

  it's really not faster and the fastest [TS]

  way through the course is like the clean [TS]

  technique way and so the three of us [TS]

  like we felt very different driving [TS]

  things but we were actually doing almost [TS]

  identically Dave were you there when [TS]

  Derek was talking to us about this [TS]

  do you remember what he said everything [TS]

  he was talking a lot about how many used [TS]

  is the broader lesson that I think [TS]

  there's a lot of people come out to [TS]

  something like this and they think [TS]

  they're just like they think they know [TS]

  what they're doing or they're just over [TS]

  overconfident and kind of a overly [TS]

  aggressive and they be attacking the [TS]

  course with just you know the throwing [TS]

  power at the problem i guess like there [TS]

  is trying to as as much as they can kind [TS]

  of brute force the the solution to it [TS]

  and so they're like as hard and the cars [TS]

  throwing the car around and not very [TS]

  controlled are clean and there we have [TS]

  someone who's a bit more like me which I [TS]

  can't say like I hit all the lines [TS]

  perfectly but I was typically going [TS]

  slower and so I have much more time to [TS]

  get my lines tidy and get and sort of [TS]

  make fewer mistakes and try and do [TS]

  things a bit more textbook if not a bit [TS]

  slower but the reality is those two [TS]

  things there's sort of this curve [TS]

  between where there is what i'm doing is [TS]

  on one sort of side of the bell curve [TS]

  and then it kind of peeks up at the [TS]

  absence of the optimal car control we [TS]

  should be its beer both technically [TS]

  correct as well as quick and then starts [TS]

  to just slide off on the other side just [TS]

  just just as deeply and you start to get [TS]

  overly powered overly sloppy and those [TS]

  types of things and then the end up at [TS]

  exactly the same . that your dry anyway [TS]

  we think we saw this little bit in some [TS]

  of the telemetry things where you know [TS]

  your I think Casey especially you you're [TS]

  on the throttle hundred percent like get [TS]

  your flight pedal pedal all the way down [TS]

  far more than I ever was but the overall [TS]

  time doesn't it we know is only [TS]

  marginally different because at the end [TS]

  because you're as a result of doing that [TS]

  you're having to throw the car around a [TS]

  lot more in ways that aren't actually [TS]

  productive [TS]

  yeah it's not even so much i think the [TS]

  maximum power is that if you are being [TS]

  aggressive and driving you know like it [TS]

  like a butthead you're probably over [TS]

  break probably over-braking to so then [TS]

  you build a ball that speed and then [TS]

  you're like whoa whoa you scrub it off [TS]

  but now you're going too slow as you [TS]

  gotta push back on the speed and just [TS]

  you know you thats you're killing [TS]

  yourself by going too fast too slow to [TS]

  fast was looking at a slowing and if you [TS]

  could just taking the average of that [TS]

  speed and going around the course like [TS]

  Dave you would have a similar time what [TS]

  you want to go is too fast and just [TS]

  barely slowed enough not to off the [TS]

  course and fasting right exactly and one [TS]

  of the exercises actually what I know [TS]

  this is skipping ahead sorry is a date [TS]

  they do a a two-car race called the rat [TS]

  race on on a figure eight shape skidpad [TS]

  actually that's next I'll good the idea [TS]

  is or was it wasn't on the figure eight [TS]

  is on the same course but it wasn't a [TS]

  figure-eight was just a big oval right I [TS]

  guess they figure it would be dangerous [TS]

  should be crashing that's it was an oval [TS]

  and the idea was the cars start at [TS]

  opposite points of the Oval pointed you [TS]

  know in the same direction like [TS]

  everyone's going going counterclockwise [TS]

  and you and you try to catch up with the [TS]

  other car so you have to like gain a [TS]

  half a lap on them basically and it's on [TS]

  a skidpad and you're in we were we did [TS]

  it in m6's so it's you know massive [TS]

  power rear wheel drive car with traction [TS]

  control to totally off on a skidpad so [TS]

  it's actually an exercise in control and [TS]

  consistency because you have enough [TS]

  space to get some speed going in a [TS]

  straight line for a second then you have [TS]

  to immediately slow down and be able to [TS]

  turn without spinning out and it was a [TS]

  really interesting exercise because like [TS]

  you again like you would think that oh [TS]

  if you can like power slide around [TS]

  they'll get in front no actually that's [TS]

  not the fastest way around and so we we [TS]

  get to the skidpad to do this event and [TS]

  we first do a couple of practice laps in [TS]

  the practice last for me in kc at first [TS]

  and right and i think that's right yeah [TS]

  and so we get on there and the first was [TS]

  me and Dave and I i beat dave after five [TS]

  or six laps I was like I was like a car [TS]

  lengths ahead it wasn't a half a car [TS]

  length and it wasn't a big difference [TS]

  but I was I was ahead so I want then [TS]

  they brought Casey on to do a practice [TS]

  lap against me [TS]

  and he just kicked my butt are you sure [TS]

  I thought you'd be I thought you might [TS]

  beat me on that problem the practice lab [TS]

  nope [TS]

  so what happened what is so you beat me [TS]

  on the practice lap and then and a [TS]

  neutral like all right now what will [TS]

  start for real case you can stay out [TS]

  there and we'll have one you know you [TS]

  know add the next person whoever wins [TS]

  gets to stay and we'll see who's left at [TS]

  the end so first up they put they put on [TS]

  you know the the rest of the people and [TS]

  there are five people in groups they put [TS]

  on for those i was last Casey beat every [TS]

  single one of them he said he was the [TS]

  master at this weird like skidpad race [TS]

  just like just just don't mess up just [TS]

  stay consistent and just don't get [TS]

  sloppy and I got on there i was the very [TS]

  last person left at the end and I get on [TS]

  there and I was getting sloppy because [TS]

  he was gaining on me and and the whole [TS]

  time you're hearing from the structure [TS]

  of the radio you're hearing alright [TS]

  cases now have Carla head cases that one [TS]

  calling the head so you hearing how [TS]

  you're doing and so my instinct to to [TS]

  overcome that and try to try to like [TS]

  regain the the loss was to go faster and [TS]

  to get sloppier which is exactly what [TS]

  you shouldn't do and eventually then [TS]

  Casey kicked my butt too and this it was [TS]

  it was a very very clear and strong [TS]

  victory and it was interesting how like [TS]

  not only was Casey good at something [TS]

  while driving a white car [TS]

  I believe you are you were in the white [TS]

  one this at this point yeah not only [TS]

  were you good at something [TS]

  driving a white car that was not a [TS]

  manual but it was a really great [TS]

  exercise in like trying to get faster [TS]

  actually made me slower should have [TS]

  fired a green shell backwards haha i've [TS]

  got a lot of people still know you can [TS]

  do that [TS]

  I knew you could do that come on [TS]

  everybody everybody knows you could [TS]

  everyone is good news you know the funny [TS]

  thing is is that to be honest I think [TS]

  easily three of the four victories were [TS]

  because the proponent just got a little [TS]

  overzealous and spun out and I know it's [TS]

  funny being all smug about that after i [TS]

  just told you I went off in the grass [TS]

  and I was the only one who did so but [TS]

  believe it or not it was just me lasting [TS]

  long enough not to be the first one [TS]

  that's been out that I think I got most [TS]

  of my victories and Marco I don't [TS]

  believe you had spun [TS]

  I didn't spin but i can't I I definitely [TS]

  had a lot of oversteer towards the end [TS]

  when I was trying to catch up so i was [TS]

  slowed down a lot right but the end of [TS]

  the day really my victory was more about [TS]

  me just not screwing up first then it [TS]

  was about me having any sort of [TS]

  technical skill well exactly like that's [TS]

  what Dave was saying landed what's wrong [TS]

  with saying that that's that's what [TS]

  succeeds in this kind of environment is [TS]

  like just just be just drive [TS]

  consistently and not crazily and you'll [TS]

  do pretty well because you try to get [TS]

  crazy you start losing control and [TS]

  losing time so that was day one [TS]

  Dave any other thoughts on day one the [TS]

  other thing that we did there was a lot [TS]

  of fun as you j-turns which is just kind [TS]

  of uh yes that was a lot of it is a [TS]

  complete is the cat it's one of those [TS]

  skills that I hope desperately that I [TS]

  never need an actual life where i need [TS]

  to you know put my car around when i'm [TS]

  being chased by bad guys or something [TS]

  but there's a lot of fun did to take you [TS]

  know to take taking m3 and spin it [TS]

  around is definitely the fastest i think [TS]

  any less of her driven in reverse and [TS]

  maybe then we look this up before [TS]

  something about how the BMW's don't have [TS]

  the dog tooth gears and reverse that [TS]

  will make that terrible wine [TS]

  yes I think we talked about this on the [TS]

  regular series of natural butter but [TS]

  yeah so in case you don't know what a [TS]

  j-turn is basically the moral of the [TS]

  story is you you do about 30 miles an [TS]

  hour backwards and again the key is that [TS]

  we were on a skidpad here and in this [TS]

  case we're in m3 is not the m6 as we [TS]

  were talking about earlier and you i [TS]

  believe we were in threes when we were [TS]

  just for this [TS]

  ok so we were in an m3 where the [TS]

  instructor bottom three out to the [TS]

  course and we were all on him sixes and [TS]

  we got the instructors and three and [TS]

  he's in the passenger seat and we're in [TS]

  the driver's seat many says right here's [TS]

  what's gonna happen you're going to get [TS]

  to the edge of the skidpad almost in the [TS]

  grass you're going to go as quickly as [TS]

  you can reverse without skidding and [TS]

  when I tell you to you're gonna whip the [TS]

  wheel to the left the left to the left [TS]

  remember that Marcos the yes yes Marco [TS]

  is the left [TS]

  no no not your other left the left it [TS]

  was confusing [TS]

  uh-huh so anyway so you you whip the [TS]

  wheel to the left and he will operate [TS]

  the gearshift all you have to do is whip [TS]

  that wheel to left like your life [TS]

  depends on it and every single one of us [TS]

  all five of us [TS]

  were able to to bang out a j-turn with [TS]

  some amount of skill which of course [TS]

  really amounted to just us listening to [TS]

  the instructor and turning left or [TS]

  marcos case occasionally right when he [TS]

  told us to [TS]

  so what were they doing with the shifter [TS]

  putting you back in to drive i guess [TS]

  they were flipping into neutral so the [TS]

  idea is you go really fast backwards [TS]

  u-turn really hard to the but spins out [TS]

  in the car just basically spins out so [TS]

  that it points to self forward and the [TS]

  inertia will keep carrying it forward [TS]

  slightly after you're done [TS]

  so all you have to do is right before [TS]

  you turn is just disengage a reverse [TS]

  gear so that it doesn't start fighting [TS]

  against the inertia wonder what you [TS]

  wouldn't give for a clutch in that [TS]

  situation right Casey omn brother but [TS]

  you know it is what it is and so we was [TS]

  it was very cool though and we were able [TS]

  to once Marco realized which direction [TS]

  was left even he was able to listen to [TS]

  the instructor and bang out a j-turn [TS]

  which I gotta say was a tremendous [TS]

  amount of fun so Dave I'm glad you [TS]

  brought that up [TS]

  what why did they tell you why they want [TS]

  you to steer to the left to do it as [TS]

  opposed to the other way [TS]

  oh yeah well because if you turn the [TS]

  other direction and you didn't stop you [TS]

  would hit the spectators right exactly [TS]

  so it's not the left or right is really [TS]

  important it just so happens that if you [TS]

  were in the car as you were backing up [TS]

  all the spectators were to your right [TS]

  and so the idea is you whip the car to [TS]

  the left so that if you just like Marco [TS]

  said if you fly you know 20 30 feet in [TS]

  the direction of perpendicular to where [TS]

  you were originally going then at least [TS]

  you would drive into nothingness as [TS]

  opposed to driving into your newfound [TS]

  friends there's nothing about the [TS]

  dynamics of the cars just has to do with [TS]

  people where the people were correct you [TS]

  can do in both directions i was confused [TS]

  and eventually migrated which way do you [TS]

  want the butt of the car . i will make [TS]

  it do that now you're remapping theater [TS]

  stop left Martin turned left into the [TS]

  gas station because you're when you're [TS]

  virtually wait to turn the wheel what [TS]

  direction it was just just tell me where [TS]

  the quarter . i'll do that as soon as [TS]

  soon as he did that and that's how I [TS]

  thought about it was perfect right so [TS]

  after that that was the end of day one [TS]

  and then and at the BMW facility they [TS]

  served us a nice german me love was its [TS]

  bachelor shits schnitzel i always get it [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  I don't think we're even qualified to [TS]

  say it was good Adam it was German the [TS]

  schnitzel because it didn't think you [TS]

  had special is like a little like up [TS]

  drops of pasta looking stuff whereas [TS]

  missile is the breaded meet i think not [TS]

  every every Germans in the chat room who [TS]

  cannot real-time correct us in that case [TS]

  ocean solution its soul in two different [TS]

  kinds of sausages and sauerkraut and it [TS]

  was very it was very very good and they [TS]

  had they had an open bar with beer that [TS]

  I choke down because I'm not a beer [TS]

  drinker [TS]

  oh you volunteered to to have a beer [TS]

  desperate times call for desperate [TS]

  measures Marco there were other options [TS]

  and you volunteer to have a beer it was [TS]

  wine or Die cokin as much as I love me a [TS]

  dyke okay that could add a water or [TS]

  sprite they had sprite edster they [TS]

  didn't write the hall [TS]

  didn't write the hall [TS]

  what are you doing that John you missed [TS]

  out you really missed out anyway what is [TS]

  very good dinner and we all got [TS]

  socializing was really nice all jokes [TS]

  aside was really nice about the entire [TS]

  experience was that everyone that we met [TS]

  all 15 people and the five or six [TS]

  instructors so call it all 20 people [TS]

  they were all incredibly incredibly nice [TS]

  and some of them were very very quick [TS]

  well obviously the instructors were but [TS]

  even the the students some of them were [TS]

  very quick and some of the morning and [TS]

  they were all extremely nice and there [TS]

  was a dad and a son that was there there [TS]

  was a mother-daughter that were there [TS]

  and all of them every single person was [TS]

  extremely nice it was really easy to [TS]

  socialize with everyone there were a [TS]

  couple other m5 owners and and I and I [TS]

  don't mean this to be passive-aggressive [TS]

  towards Marco but you know your [TS]

  assumption is if you can afford a car [TS]

  like an m5 you might look down your nose [TS]

  at anyone who can't afford a car like an [TS]

  m5 and none of them were like that at [TS]

  all they were all extremely nice and [TS]

  extremely approachable and none of their [TS]

  cars will bite and none of the cars were [TS]

  white which is why they were extremely [TS]

  not just kidding but it was really [TS]

  really incredible and so after after [TS]

  dinner we were brought back to the hotel [TS]

  we were able to stay up if we wanted to [TS]

  but at this point we were all exhausted [TS]

  so we crashed pretty early [TS]

  everyone quick noses and say about day [TS]

  one is that you can do it as a day one [TS]

  and it is a one day or two day course [TS]

  and i think it was interesting having [TS]

  doing the two day course in some ways [TS]

  you do the whole one day course i would [TS]

  say if this is if you're someone listen [TS]

  to this you would actually consider [TS]

  going to this but for whatever reason [TS]

  could only do the one day like the two [TS]

  day was different to say worse that [TS]

  worth it but the one day if you did just [TS]

  the one day it would have been an [TS]

  amazing trip still like you could it [TS]

  would take at the end of the first day [TS]

  it felt very satisfying very worthwhile [TS]

  and very useful like the second is built [TS]

  on top of that you'd agree with that [TS]

  yeah i would say that day one was kind [TS]

  of theory and granted there was [TS]

  application don't get me wrong but I [TS]

  feel like day one was more about Theory [TS]

  where is day two was more was less about [TS]

  theory more about application which were [TS]

  about to get into but just like Dave [TS]

  said I if if for whatever reason you can [TS]

  only swing a one day course be it [TS]

  because the time or because of finance [TS]

  whatever it's still worth it was still a [TS]

  tremendous tremendous amount of fun [TS]

  yeah after the one day all three of us [TS]

  said to each other like if that was it [TS]

  we'd be very happy [TS]

  yeah absolutely so anyway so it's [TS]

  getting into day-to-day to is [TS]

  essentially the application of all of [TS]

  the basic skills and things that we'd [TS]

  learned today before and it was [TS]

  essentially just mostly just building up [TS]

  towards being confident enough to do [TS]

  what I just started calling their bike [TS]

  their power lap or whatever you want to [TS]

  call it but it's the the full course [TS]

  from end to end which is essentially in [TS]

  the morning what we did is we split that [TS]

  Chris put the course down into two [TS]

  sections one of them sort of a higher [TS]

  speed course they have one more kind of [TS]

  handling course and so we start off in [TS]

  the morning doing what they refer to as [TS]

  their main corner which is this very [TS]

  sort of long gradual sweeping corner [TS]

  that you can take at relatively high [TS]

  speed and is a sort of you know it by [TS]

  its it served it's a hairpin turn and [TS]

  that you're you're going in one way and [TS]

  coming out the complete opposite [TS]

  direction but it's over such a long [TS]

  distance that you can carry a tremendous [TS]

  amount of speed through it and so most [TS]

  of it was just trying to get confident [TS]

  it it would the hardest part of this for [TS]

  me on that is looking at a corner and [TS]

  going into a corner at don't even know [TS]

  it was 50 miles an hour and then turning [TS]

  your car and having that not feel [TS]

  completely insane [TS]

  you're exactly right in with the the [TS]

  corner was so big again it was like a [TS]

  hundred eighty degree turn but the [TS]

  radius of this half circle was [TS]

  tremendous and so it was long enough [TS]

  that they basically told you split this [TS]

  into two different corners and what you [TS]

  had to do was grab one apex early on fly [TS]

  out to the outside part in order to prep [TS]

  to get into the second apex and then [TS]

  coming out of the second apex you just [TS]

  got hard on the gas hard on the gas and [TS]

  then like Marco talked about quite a [TS]

  while ago you stand on the break in [TS]

  order to get to get this s turn out of [TS]

  the way and it was it was incredible and [TS]

  one of the things that I learned during [TS]

  this course ordering that during the [TS]

  two-day am school is that even in a BMW [TS]

  M car brake fade is a real thing and I [TS]

  don't know if you guys noticed this but [TS]

  particularly in the m5 I think I noticed [TS]

  that the most [TS]

  and the m6 was not a lot better after a [TS]

  while you would stand on the brake and [TS]

  things that were stopping quickly [TS]

  suddenly weren't stopping quite so [TS]

  quickly then I have carbon ceramic [TS]

  brakes on the m5 not only is no although [TS]

  i award you five bonus points for asking [TS]

  and asking the question [TS]

  no none of them at carbon ceramic brakes [TS]

  however all of the cars every single one [TS]

  of them really well appointed really [TS]

  really well appointed like some of them [TS]

  had the how much is the Bang & Olufsen [TS]

  stereo Marco on the m5 3700 dollars [TS]

  right and so half the m5 had this like [TS]

  ridiculous Bang & Olufsen stereo that I [TS]

  don't think any of us turned on not once [TS]

  actually I try to just get the stupid [TS]

  little speaker elevate up in the middle [TS]

  in the center console but yeah it's that [TS]

  they and they had night vision they had [TS]

  a few of them had like all these crazy [TS]

  options that like there's really not a [TS]

  lot of reason for for a car that's gonna [TS]

  spend the first half or so of its life [TS]

  on a racetrack being thrown around with [TS]

  the radio off there's not a lot of [TS]

  reason for you to have these like [TS]

  thousands of dollars of options on them [TS]

  but for whatever reason they did I don't [TS]

  know what what I guess it's because they [TS]

  do eventually auction these off and [TS]

  resell them and we talked to the [TS]

  instructors about this briefly and they [TS]

  said we don't know if the deals on these [TS]

  cars are any good or not and yes as far [TS]

  as they know they do have to disclose [TS]

  exactly how these cars started their [TS]

  lives but also consider for what it's [TS]

  worth that these cars get oil changes [TS]

  constantly they get break changes [TS]

  constantly and when I say break changes [TS]

  i don't just mean pads [TS]

  I mean they get brake fluid changes to [TS]

  get rotor changes to get pad changes all [TS]

  the time and in fact every time these [TS]

  cars leave the BMW Performance Center [TS]

  which they do occasionally to go to say [TS]

  road atlanta or vir for event [TS]

  apparently they basically got the darn [TS]

  things and put all sorts of new bits on [TS]

  them so that when they're off site [TS]

  they're pretty much guaranteed to work [TS]

  is not right is that what you guys heard [TS]

  that is what they said tip so yes so it [TS]

  was I don't know I digress but it was a [TS]

  very interesting little story so like [TS]

  they've said we start out the man corner [TS]

  and that was a lot about learning how to [TS]

  take a very high speed constant radius [TS]

  turn as well as how to do what they [TS]

  called a compromise corner which [TS]

  is to say an S turn so you have a corner [TS]

  where you want to come into the apex [TS]

  late but if you do that set you up very [TS]

  poorly for the second corner so on the [TS]

  first corner you actually want to apex [TS]

  early in order to better set yourself up [TS]

  for a second corner that was in the m5 i [TS]

  did not go off the track on that one [TS]

  after that we took the m6 on a handling [TS]

  course which included a corkscrew and [TS]

  I've never been to laguna seca but the [TS]

  what the pictures and videos I've seen [TS]

  of laguna seca and made me think of [TS]

  laguna seca as quarks or whatever they [TS]

  call it a when we did that and that was [TS]

  odd that was incredibly scary incredibly [TS]

  thrilling but incredibly scary because [TS]

  as you're going down this hill there's [TS]

  kind of a mini s turn on the hill itself [TS]

  and that's the corkscrew and you can't [TS]

  see a thing when you crest the top of it [TS]

  and . yourself down the hill and and [TS]

  they say you know once you get yourself [TS]

  lined up appropriately you can stand on [TS]

  the gas even an m6 which again is a [TS]

  little bit [TS]

  oh my i would actually argue overpowered [TS]

  and so for me I felt like it all my god [TS]

  it was so scary doing that because you [TS]

  just have to go on faith that you're not [TS]

  going to screw up and especially the [TS]

  first time but even other times it was [TS]

  scary like I'm curious to hear both mark [TS]

  when Dave and let's start with Marco did [TS]

  you find that to be petrifying or door [TS]

  what am I the only one I was pretty much [TS]

  petrified whenever I was driving the m6 [TS]

  yeah I would agree with that actually [TS]

  and and at um we we talked about before [TS]

  we do this episode we talked about how [TS]

  can we make this interesting to more [TS]

  people than just potential or current [TS]

  BMW M car owners and so we promised [TS]

  myself I wouldn't get too much into the [TS]

  details of the particular models because [TS]

  who cares [TS]

  although we all agreed the m3 is by far [TS]

  the best track car at least the most fun [TS]

  but I was confident in the m5 because I [TS]

  at least Drive one so I know how it [TS]

  feels and iikind of respect the amount [TS]

  of power it has I know how it comes on [TS]

  and so I know how not to overdo it [TS]

  the m6 is in many ways the same car same [TS]

  engine you know same thing saved same [TS]

  drivetrain it is a very very similar car [TS]

  but because it's unfamiliar to me and it [TS]

  also has terrible visibility is [TS]

  different [TS]

  basically i was i was a lot less [TS]

  confident X because it even though I was [TS]

  familiar with how the engine responds I [TS]

  was not familiar with have a car [TS]

  responds and the within the m6 I came [TS]

  closest to losing control during the [TS]

  during the course and i also almost plot [TS]

  over some cones missed a few turns in [TS]

  the m6 whereas the in the m3 and m5 I [TS]

  never had that that never had those [TS]

  problems so so Dave what did you think [TS]

  of the three colors very briefly [TS]

  particularly particularly the m6 they [TS]

  generally is like the server boring [TS]

  opinion in that i think the the three [TS]

  was is felt much more in I felt much [TS]

  more in control in the three and that it [TS]

  fits ability to its power and its [TS]

  agility seemed well matched it's like if [TS]

  I was playing some RPG and I was like [TS]

  rolling dice it's like he was a [TS]

  well-balanced that's not hard to both in [TS]

  terms of you know its power match very [TS]

  well with its agility whereas he says [TS]

  you start to get higher up if they start [TS]

  to get very out of whack and I think [TS]

  especially in the six where it felt like [TS]

  your kind of steering with a rudder but [TS]

  it's got this huge engine on it like it [TS]

  just didn't turn in the way that you [TS]

  would necessarily wanted to and the five [TS]

  was a bit of a balance between that that [TS]

  it was had a lot of power but if you [TS]

  could still had reasonable handling and [TS]

  then the six it just felt like it was [TS]

  real it is for me it was very mismatched [TS]

  in that way and it was just an which [TS]

  made it very awkward to serve to feel [TS]

  like you're actually in control of it [TS]

  rather than it just kind of going where [TS]

  it's wanting is it's good it's going to [TS]

  go where it's going to go and you're [TS]

  just kind of making your requests to it [TS]

  and hoping that it he is 270 degrees [TS]

  with you I felt like the m3 it could [TS]

  have used to smidge more power but [TS]

  generally speaking Dave hit spot on it [TS]

  was the right amount of power for the [TS]

  right amount of agility i agree with [TS]

  Marco that the m5 well it still felt a [TS]

  little imbalanced by and large it was [TS]

  still within reason the right amount of [TS]

  power for the right [TS]

  amount of chassis whereas the m6 I felt [TS]

  was way too much power and nowhere near [TS]

  enough chassis and I never thought in a [TS]

  million years that I would ever say that [TS]

  because as much as we joke during the [TS]

  first season of neutral and perhaps only [TS]

  seasonal neutral that we are all james [TS]

  may I think i have very Clarkson healthy [TS]

  tendencies and I tend to like power [TS]

  power power in the m6 just had way too [TS]

  much power in in not enough chassis [TS]

  behind it so I'm very surprised I'm [TS]

  surprised it's the same chassis as the [TS]

  m5 though so what do you mean when you [TS]

  say that not enough chassis like whether [TS]

  the power putting the car out of kilter [TS]

  was like yes but absolutely all going [TS]

  from weight on one side of the car to [TS]

  the other was it you know on paper i [TS]

  would assume that I am dead wrong that [TS]

  the m5 m6 should have behaved [TS]

  approximately the same i don't know if [TS]

  the wheelbase is a different length i [TS]

  don't know if it's the weights very [TS]

  different but regardless or maybe it's [TS]

  the suspension of Sam McGee was [TS]

  mentioning in the chat but one way or [TS]

  another [TS]

  something was off about the m6 or maybe [TS]

  it's just that I didn't agree with the [TS]

  m6 where's the m5 it felt very heavy [TS]

  it felt like it resisted a direction [TS]

  change but it would go with it it was [TS]

  like all right fine if you really want [TS]

  me to go left with a quickness I'll go [TS]

  left with well okay fine I'll go right [TS]

  with the quickness but she's which give [TS]

  me a chance to breathe or cm6 if you [TS]

  wanted to go left and then right with a [TS]

  quickness you were probably going to be [TS]

  going left then right and then back a [TS]

  hundred eighty degree or 36 degrees [TS]

  around because you're about to put [TS]

  yourself in a spin but it may have just [TS]

  been too much car for you you know and [TS]

  know you might be right [TS]

  the big sedan is like kind of slowing [TS]

  things down to the point it's kind of [TS]

  like you know jet fighter planes that [TS]

  designed to be intentionally unstable [TS]

  they can change direction quickly but if [TS]

  you know if you if you go yanks you left [TS]

  me after the right then you find [TS]

  yourself having to correct again because [TS]

  now you've gone too far [TS]

  it you'd find another two or three weeks [TS]

  and maybe you change your opinion on the [TS]

  m6 you're probably right and i have bet [TS]

  you anything that that's a very very [TS]

  very good . but whatever the reason was [TS]

  I felt like the m6 was was a little bit [TS]

  sketchy [TS]

  I think it's worth noting that the [TS]

  instructors all agreed people who do [TS]

  this all the time and have big racing [TS]

  experience they all agreed that the m3 [TS]

  was that was the most fun track car but [TS]

  they also all agreed the m5 was was the [TS]

  one that they would pick to do [TS]

  you like a a major thing like it like a [TS]

  major time lap and the instructors all [TS]

  seem to prefer the m34 fun and the m54 [TS]

  high-performance I don't think anybody [TS]

  claim to prefer the m6 for anything [TS]

  no not at all but that said I think we [TS]

  should probably leave this topic that's [TS]

  too specific and who cares [TS]

  exactly so in the morning of day two we [TS]

  talked about the man corner then we did [TS]

  the handling course with the corkscrew [TS]

  which we just talked about and I think [TS]

  all of us enjoyed that although II each [TS]

  of us had a different amount of motion [TS]

  sickness that the summation of the [TS]

  handling course the m6 i think i might [TS]

  have done the best of all of us but I [TS]

  certainly was feeling a little bit at [TS]

  the end of it because the course was [TS]

  very short and it was a lot of twisting [TS]

  and turning and height changes in height [TS]

  changes very much so [TS]

  so then in the end the end of the [TS]

  morning of day two we then took the m3's [TS]

  back to the big ovular skid pad and did [TS]

  figure eights and power drifts and I [TS]

  don't have a whole lot to say about that [TS]

  i don't know if you guys do but it was a [TS]

  lot of fun [TS]

  yeah i mean that's I don't actually have [TS]

  a whole lot to say about day two at all [TS]

  just because it was just like all right [TS]

  here's most of you learn day one but [TS]

  more of it and you have more time on the [TS]

  track to to drive and like that and the [TS]

  introverted like they know we're all [TS]

  their driving the tractor they don't [TS]

  spend a lot of time with like with [TS]

  instruction you either either in [TS]

  classroom or otherwise like it's really [TS]

  just like we may want to get you on the [TS]

  track and get you as much driving time [TS]

  as possible and and I respect that right [TS]

  now so yeah day two is really just a [TS]

  whole lot of driving more on the track [TS]

  and it was exhausting but it was really [TS]

  fun [TS]

  yeah and in the best part of day to me [TS]

  was the vet for us the very beginning of [TS]

  the afternoon and what they didn't as up [TS]

  in eluding to all this entire show is [TS]

  they took the entire track and they put [TS]

  it all together made one massive track [TS]

  over when I say the portal together what [TS]

  I mean is they took out there there were [TS]

  they would obstruct us with cones and [TS]

  Intel us to you know make rights and [TS]

  make left's to prevent us from going [TS]

  down the entire big track and in the end [TS]

  of the second day they took away all [TS]

  those cones and basically said have fun [TS]

  and it was still track there there were [TS]

  still obstructions there but by and [TS]

  large it was this it was humongous track [TS]

  and they just said have fun and so for [TS]

  our group [TS]

  we started the day and it started the [TS]

  afternoon rather in m3 and I'm not a [TS]

  terribly good driver as I learned over [TS]

  the over those two days and I really [TS]

  learned at the end of day two but I tell [TS]

  you what [TS]

  at the beginning of the afternoon of day [TS]

  to when we were in the m3's doing this [TS]

  power lap I felt more dialed-in in that [TS]

  m3 then I did the rest of the time in [TS]

  any car now of course of course some of [TS]

  that comes down to the m3 being the same [TS]

  generation is my 335 and so of course I [TS]

  feel most acclimated to that car because [TS]

  its most similar to what i drive every [TS]

  day [TS]

  that being said there I had such an [TS]

  unbelievably good time driving that m3 [TS]

  with a quickness trying to drive the [TS]

  doors off of it around this humongous [TS]

  track in all my goodness it was so much [TS]

  fun and i'll give mark on David chance [TS]

  to throw in their two cents but after [TS]

  the m3 we did the m6 on the same lab and [TS]

  another group took the m3 is over and [TS]

  then finally at the end of day two we [TS]

  took the m5 into that same figure 8 [TS]

  course and just did some drifts in some [TS]

  time lapse and the the instructor showed [TS]

  us something fun with that which we'll [TS]

  get to in a minute but what did you guys [TS]

  think about the power lap like Dave what [TS]

  did you think about the m3 vs CM six on [TS]

  those power laps [TS]

  yeah i mean i think the m3 was a lot [TS]

  more fun to drive and in a lot of ways [TS]

  but i think the biggest thing I took [TS]

  away from those big laps and this is a [TS]

  surprise to me is that just how [TS]

  exhausting driving that a car and that [TS]

  in that manner is in a way that you know [TS]

  each lap was probably only 10 minute [TS]

  maybe a minute and a half ago it was a [TS]

  huge amount of time at the atom d cheer [TS]

  exhaustion that you get into the amount [TS]

  of focus that it takes definitely gave [TS]

  me a whole other kind of level of [TS]

  respect for the people who do actual [TS]

  racing weather especially those click [TS]

  the crazy like the lawns races and [TS]

  things were there racing for hours [TS]

  because even just after doing it for 20 [TS]

  minutes [TS]

  like I'm I'm it was just exhausting [TS]

  mentally and the whole to add some point [TS]

  after sort of broke down from being able [TS]

  to just sort of do it with normal [TS]

  concentration to have to start like [TS]

  narrating myself through it no matter if [TS]

  you listen on sort of like the in-car [TS]

  microphone you can just hear me like [TS]

  telling myself what I'm supposed to be [TS]

  doing trying to essentially be the [TS]

  instructor for just myself to try and [TS]

  keep myself and had to take a couple of [TS]

  breaks even just to be able to do what [TS]

  you're trying to do at that kind of [TS]

  speed we know you don't have that you [TS]

  don't have time to think about it and we [TS]

  just kind of an intense thing that I was [TS]

  bedridden really appreciate before just [TS]

  how exhausting that is you know my [TS]

  previous experience the driving [TS]

  exhausting when you do you know a [TS]

  six-hour road trip and you get to the [TS]

  end of it you just mostly just bored and [TS]

  it's like that boredom kind of loss of [TS]

  focus rather than a loss of focus just [TS]

  from exhaustion [TS]

  yeah i mean each of these the m3 the m6 [TS]

  power laps we were out for between 20-30 [TS]

  minutes and at the end of it AF Waller [TS]

  asked in the chat [TS]

  did you guys sweat a lot and i'm not [TS]

  sure if you meant that comically you're [TS]

  seriously but i know i did it was tiring [TS]

  and I crank the AC on those cars and [TS]

  sometimes I had the windows open when [TS]

  appropriate but that being said even [TS]

  with the ac's in the low 60s it was it [TS]

  was still hot because you were there was [TS]

  a lot of effort it was hard and I don't [TS]

  know Mario John Okeefe broken a sweat [TS]

  playing Mary oak art but nice i can tell [TS]

  you I broke a sweat broke a sweat [TS]

  driving these hot laps I mean it was it [TS]

  was tiring if you do these time-lapse [TS]

  tho you gotta turn the AC off the extra [TS]

  hundredth of a second you know if I [TS]

  thought the same thing . hand on heart I [TS]

  really honestly did but it it wasn't a [TS]

  big enough deal [TS]

  nor was it a big enough difference none [TS]

  of us are good enough and none of us [TS]

  were good enough to make a difference [TS]

  and on these power lapse they didn't [TS]

  time I speak and I think because they [TS]

  wanted us to have fun and just the [TS]

  specter of somebody behind you and your [TS]

  in your rear-view mirror was enough to [TS]

  get you to kind of overextend your [TS]

  abilities and I don't think timing [TS]

  people really would help that situation [TS]

  at all when they also in order to keep [TS]

  spacing like sort of sort of fast people [TS]

  keep going fast and not be behind [TS]

  somebody slow for a while [TS]

  they would call people selectively into [TS]

  the pit to just maintain spacing so a [TS]

  lot of laps were not complete laps [TS]

  because the pit was like a bypass 4 [TS]

  first first sort of short portion of the [TS]

  track so that you could like reorganize [TS]

  two cars again if if somebody was on [TS]

  someone else's but they would call the [TS]

  front one into the pit so the rear one [TS]

  could pass it and and and so on [TS]

  I just a house in the pits a lot haha [TS]

  yeah I think market is spent some time [TS]

  in the pits but I I don't think either i [TS]

  spent a tremendous amount of time there [TS]

  so we're we're running along and I want [TS]

  to wrap up somewhat quickly but I i [TS]

  should note that at the end of the [TS]

  second day there were two different [TS]

  things that happen so i made i mentioned [TS]

  earlier that we took the m5 under the [TS]

  figure-eight and get some drifts and [TS]

  some time lapse and that was fun and I [TS]

  think Marco beat me somewhat handily on [TS]

  that if i'm not mistaken is that right [TS]

  Marco I don't think so I we were very [TS]

  close the in everything that was timed [TS]

  officially you and I were very [TS]

  effectively equal x okay well regardless [TS]

  so then Johan who was the instructor [TS]

  that we had for that particular portion [TS]

  of the day said hey listen I'm gonna [TS]

  take one of the m56 just so happens to [TS]

  be the one Dave drove out there and I'm [TS]

  going to drift the entire figure 8 [TS]

  I can take three people with me of the [TS]

  five of you who would like to go and so [TS]

  I volunteered because I i'm lucky enough [TS]

  not to get terribly motion sick market [TS]

  when Dave thought better of it and then [TS]

  our other two people decided to go with [TS]

  me and so Johan who is set a world [TS]

  record for the longest drift is that [TS]

  correct yes and it was even on thats [TS]

  good bad was it on that skip it i didn't [TS]

  catch that or what is on one of the two [TS]

  okay well he said a world record for the [TS]

  longest drift in and m5 is that right [TS]

  yep it was an m6 and five they do [TS]

  everything in the m5 because it's better [TS]

  than the m6 ma'am [TS]

  there you go so anyway so he did this [TS]

  instructor has set a world record for [TS]

  like a literally 50-mile drift around [TS]

  one of the two skid pads and he takes [TS]

  the m5 and does adrift in a figure eight [TS]

  and being in a car with an instructor [TS]

  watching them do their thing even when [TS]

  their thing and [TS]

  senior quotes here is driving like an [TS]

  idiot [TS]

  it is on believable and so we did these [TS]

  figure eights and then all of a sudden [TS]

  he decides he says he ok ok we're done [TS]

  and he starts careening directly towards [TS]

  Marco and Dave and so I don't know what [TS]

  did do one of you want to jump in and [TS]

  tell the tell the story from your [TS]

  perspective of the structure and then I [TS]

  was record i was think of it neither the [TS]

  moment you're talking about is I was [TS]

  videoing this so I'm just sitting there [TS]

  looking at my iphone screen as I'm you [TS]

  know just doing doing a nice if you get [TS]

  some really nice slow-mo video of this [TS]

  is all very nice and then you just liked [TS]

  the car just like you start you survive [TS]

  that moment of like he's not stopping or [TS]

  turning he's not stopping or turning and [TS]

  then you just went through your watch [TS]

  the video that could just all of a [TS]

  sudden you just seems like since she's [TS]

  like the camera down i'm just now [TS]

  running backwards as he comes from warns [TS]

  us and then spins the car around a [TS]

  hundred eighty degrees and essentially [TS]

  parks it up right where we were meeting [TS]

  right now right in front of where he [TS]

  would have been standing if we hadn't [TS]

  run away screaming right i don't know if [TS]

  there's a way to do it agreed to paint [TS]

  the correct word picture on this one but [TS]

  it suffice to say he parked the the m5 [TS]

  by doing a drift into exactly where he [TS]

  decided it did needed to stop and it was [TS]

  unbelief it was like the adventure [TS]

  parking job [TS]

  I'm sure he appreciates that particular [TS]

  comparison of all the movie scenes where [TS]

  someone skimmed the car into a parking [TS]

  lot ace pitcher [TS]

  yes exactly well that was an awesome [TS]

  parking job come on it was pretty legit [TS]

  so that was the end of the formal part [TS]

  of the two day in school and at this [TS]

  point they basically said hey it's been [TS]

  a blast [TS]

  you know here's a bunch of swag that [TS]

  we're giving you for free but in reality [TS]

  we all paid for and you can go about [TS]

  your business but if you'd like to [TS]

  wee-wee the instructors will take two [TS]

  people at a time in the m3's and we'll [TS]

  do a hot lap instructor style [TS]

  oh my goodness I thought once upon a [TS]

  time I was a decent driver i took this [TS]

  two-day am school and I realized i'm at [TS]

  best a mediocre driver then I went for a [TS]

  ride with the instructors so Marco I'd [TS]

  like to hear your recap of how this went [TS]

  and then I'd like to hear Dave's even as [TS]

  if even that even as a spectator I'd [TS]

  like to hear what Dave thought well on [TS]

  the way it into the cars these records [TS]

  were talking to each other and and lead [TS]

  instructor had told the others i don't [TS]

  know i mean maybe say maybe says every [TS]

  time like to be funny but he had told [TS]

  the other instructors hey let's let's [TS]

  take it easy and and take a pretty clean [TS]

  around the man turn the you know the [TS]

  biggest on the track [TS]

  ok and so my I was in I was in the the [TS]

  the back car in in the line and my [TS]

  instructor Laura was was fairly upset [TS]

  that the car in front of her was not [TS]

  going as fast as she wanted the whole [TS]

  time so first of all an instructor lap [TS]

  is insane because like you know you [TS]

  think when you're driving it in the [TS]

  exact same car driving the exact same [TS]

  course you know 30 minutes earlier you [TS]

  think that you are pushing the car like [TS]

  to its limits of traction that if you [TS]

  want any faster you'd skipped out and [TS]

  that's sort of true actually [TS]

  well then you get in the car the way [TS]

  they drive it and then you realize oh [TS]

  wow I had a lot of headroom and oh my [TS]

  God we're going fast and Mail and the [TS]

  funny thing is in this is so I went [TS]

  twice I went once with the head [TS]

  instructor Donnie and he is a robot and [TS]

  I mean that in the best possible way [TS]

  very very methodical very deliberate and [TS]

  he didn't really get loose much and when [TS]

  he did you could tell he was just [TS]

  screwing around doing it for fun not [TS]

  because it was an error in judgment then [TS]

  for the second lap and I'm gonna turn it [TS]

  back to mark on a second for the second [TS]

  lap I was with Derek who was by [TS]

  coincidence directly ahead of laura and [TS]

  marcos car and so derek was the polar [TS]

  opposite of tani in that he was loose [TS]

  the entire time [TS]

  it's not that he wasn't quick but he was [TS]

  a very senior pants talking the whole [TS]

  time laughing and joking kind of driver [TS]

  where is Donnie was very by-the-book [TS]

  this is how I'm doing it you will hold [TS]

  on and you will enjoy that Donnie wasn't [TS]

  a great guy he was extremely awesome but [TS]

  if the difference between these two [TS]

  styles was incredible and so Marco is [TS]

  behind us [TS]

  unbeknownst to me while laura is cursing [TS]

  the fact that Derek isn't going quick [TS]

  enough so laura is driving this m3 [TS]

  around with me and at me and other guy [TS]

  in the backseat [TS]

  I'm the front of the guys in the back [TS]

  and the funny thing with you know she [TS]

  was driving his car so so hard and it [TS]

  just seemed effortless like we were all [TS]

  I talking in the car as if we were on a [TS]

  roadtrip together just talking normally [TS]

  and we even have we have a video cuz i [TS]

  plug my USB can do is why i recorded her [TS]

  lap with us on the card [TS]

  it's hilarious like how just she [TS]

  obviously does this every day and is not [TS]

  fazed at all by it and we were like oh [TS]

  my god like trying to keep ourselves in [TS]

  the seats from from the ridiculous force [TS]

  of turning so quickly and so after after [TS]

  you know a very very fast lap of her not [TS]

  being able to drive as fast as she [TS]

  wanted because the guy in front of her [TS]

  was was a not going fast enough [TS]

  she decides to ignore the directions [TS]

  about taking the big turn cleanly and [TS]

  just does this massive power slide for [TS]

  this massive turn if I mean it what it [TS]

  must have been like a 20 second slide [TS]

  just this giant perfectly smooth slider [TS]

  this whole thing [TS]

  and then massive slide the next thing [TS]

  and then sliding back right precisely [TS]

  between two cones to get back into the [TS]

  pit lane and it was of course massive [TS]

  cloud of smoke it was comical we had a [TS]

  fantastic time and then the next lap [TS]

  goes out and I was just watching the [TS]

  next lab and of course the next lab all [TS]

  of the instructors did he [TS]

  that same power slide because they they [TS]

  were not going to be outdone by the one [TS]

  who wanted to have some fun so then [TS]

  there's another massive cloud of smoke [TS]

  that with Dave and I both on video and [TS]

  it was a fantastic time because you [TS]

  really realize with with them driving [TS]

  quite how much Headroom you have and [TS]

  quite how much of a skill this is and [TS]

  how far you are from after just two days [TS]

  yep so Dave what did you think in in in [TS]

  summary both about the power lap and in [TS]

  the whole experience i'm sorry i didn't [TS]

  actually go out I want to any of the hot [TS]

  laps at this point the sort of general [TS]

  sense of motion sickness from all the [TS]

  driving that I've been doing for myself [TS]

  I thought was sufficient before I then [TS]

  got in the car and drove for [TS]

  five-and-a-half hours and so I thought [TS]

  better of it better of keeping marcos [TS]

  car to to steal it like to steal a [TS]

  neutral previous title you know vomit [TS]

  ruins everything [TS]

  so I just decided to keep it as I think [TS]

  to to keep it clean and I just watching [TS]

  the outside and the crazy thing to do to [TS]

  realize watching from the outside and [TS]

  watched just the students be doing doing [TS]

  their lap so you know for most for a [TS]

  couple of days and you [TS]

  it's the strangers you from looking on [TS]

  the outside the cars look like they're [TS]

  going quickly but they're not they look [TS]

  it looks like looks a lot slower from [TS]

  the outside than it does from the inside [TS]

  whereas I think the sort of from these [TS]

  cars it's like you could tell they were [TS]

  seriously going quickly i'm in a way [TS]

  that is you your head is turning rapidly [TS]

  as they fly past you should definitely [TS]

  tell it was a whole lot a whole other [TS]

  level which is makes sense for why they [TS]

  do it do it professionally vs us just [TS]

  obvious going and doing it right now [TS]

  John if you were to have gone with us [TS]

  and I know that you need to be at home [TS]

  for the Mavericks review I know you hate [TS]

  travel even if Marco works [TS]

  transport you the whole way but [TS]

  hypothetically if you you know turned on [TS]

  your emotion ship and decided to have a [TS]

  little bit of fun do you find yourself [TS]

  getting motion sick when you are the [TS]

  driver of an automobile or like in other [TS]

  words what do you think you would've [TS]

  been screwed after this entire event or [TS]

  do you think you would have survived if [TS]

  any of you felt any motion sickness i [TS]

  would have been tremendously motion sick [TS]

  child is very long and very rarely when [TS]

  I'm driving myself do I but occasionally [TS]

  I do like you know a stop-and-go traffic [TS]

  for hours [TS]

  you know and a stick shift on hilly road [TS]

  or even just you know like at its I have [TS]

  very low limit so I guarantee that i [TS]

  would not have gone on it not been up to [TS]

  going as high lapping at the course you [TS]

  describe going up and down the elevation [TS]

  changes with lots of turns [TS]

  I wouldn't have liked to do that either [TS]

  by yeah i would probably miss half of [TS]

  this [TS]

  that's the other thing if I'd paid for [TS]

  this thing I probably missed half of it [TS]

  as I SAT there motionless trying to keep [TS]

  my lunch down [TS]

  yeah and the other thing I should note [TS]

  that since you bring up manual [TS]

  transmissions Marco and I made a made a [TS]

  bet before the event and he had said [TS]

  well I'm sure that there will be at [TS]

  least one car with a manual transmission [TS]

  because last year there was exactly 1 mm [TS]

  and I said no way there's no way they [TS]

  would do that and I was a little [TS]

  disappointed by that when I made that [TS]

  because i knew i was going to be right [TS]

  and I was but I was disappointed because [TS]

  I thought man i'm really i'm going to [TS]

  want to have a stick or proper stick [TS]

  shift there and and and I'm really going [TS]

  to miss not having one [TS]

  and as it turned out the m3 m5 m6 all [TS]

  have the dctr boxes and now having been [TS]

  through that I would still personally [TS]

  choose a six-speed a standard [TS]

  transmission for the street any day and [TS]

  i have not been on a racetrack in a [TS]

  six-speed yet but i can tell you that [TS]

  for learning how to drive like a racecar [TS]

  driver [TS]

  I am so glad that I didn't have to worry [TS]

  about a clutch or switching gears other [TS]

  than tapping on a flappy-paddle and I [TS]

  don't know Marco especially since you [TS]

  have more experience on with manual then [TS]

  then Dave does I don't know how you felt [TS]

  but I'm actually very glad that they [TS]

  didn't have a six-speed as it turns out [TS]

  well I do have one event i did with a [TS]

  six-speed which was last at last year's [TS]

  limerock thing [TS]

  they had the one ends and they had a [TS]

  little autocross course to do with them [TS]

  so i did that but it didn't really count [TS]

  because i was just in second gear almost [TS]

  the entire time i would occasionally go [TS]

  up to third on a really very fast part [TS]

  very very rarely and that's kind of how [TS]

  it was on this track tool icon on the [TS]

  big track we were mostly in second and [TS]

  third going into 4th like on The Biggest [TS]

  straightaways but not even for very long [TS]

  because we weren't really good enough to [TS]

  be that going that fast anyway so I [TS]

  don't think it matters on a racetrack as [TS]

  much as you think you know if you if you [TS]

  drive a stick every day then it's it's [TS]

  it's automatic for you and your head [TS]

  like you're not gonna have to think [TS]

  about that you're changing gears going [TS]

  to do them and so it's not it i don't [TS]

  think it makes a difference either way [TS]

  it is what I'm saying for it you know [TS]

  these for amateurs like us I think that [TS]

  going back a second to the motion sick [TS]

  thing I don't usually get motion [TS]

  sickness for any like common situations [TS]

  but i did get motion sick at last year's [TS]

  track event and I did get a little bit [TS]

  motion sick at this one last year's from [TS]

  sitting in the backseat of the skidpad [TS]

  when somebody else was getting out [TS]

  constantly [TS]

  i would not recommend sitting in the [TS]

  backseat on any skin better exercise for [TS]

  anybody and huh [TS]

  and this time i got a little bit sick [TS]

  feeling when we're doing the big [TS]

  elevation change course and and both [TS]

  times it didn't ruin my day and I would [TS]

  I felt better like you know the half [TS]

  hour to an hour later but I'd know [TS]

  enough about myself now having done this [TS]

  now twice to know that even though I I [TS]

  love driving my fast car and even though [TS]

  i love this kind of thing in theory i [TS]

  don't think i would ever like this hobby [TS]

  enough to actually go and like get time [TS]

  on a track myself outside of these [TS]

  highly instructed highly structured [TS]

  events like I don't think I can handle [TS]

  the motion [TS]

  I wouldn't want to be driving on the [TS]

  track for you know five hours straight [TS]

  with with no breaks or whatever [TS]

  certainly the expense of getting your [TS]

  own time on on most tracks is insane and [TS]

  and the ones near me are certainly no [TS]

  exception and [TS]

  so I think I'm actually perfectly fine [TS]

  doing this kind of thing every couple [TS]

  years with friends as we see fit but i [TS]

  don't think i would want to do a track [TS]

  hobby more often than that i don't think [TS]

  i can really handle it and I I think I'm [TS]

  actually okay with that [TS]

  like I'm okay minute to myself and then [TS]

  I guess to the public that [TS]

  yeah that's actually fine now Dave what [TS]

  do you think I'm very glad that I did [TS]

  this in terms of obviously coming from [TS]

  the opposite end of the spectrum it was [TS]

  it's it's something that's it it's and [TS]

  honestly it's it's one of those [TS]

  interesting things where you have it [TS]

  it's an experience that yes in some [TS]

  people call it is like a [TS]

  once-in-a-lifetime experience and [TS]

  probably won't be once-in-a-lifetime [TS]

  that's the kind of thing I met me [TS]

  they'll do at some point later but it's [TS]

  have it's very different than what very [TS]

  different than the norm and is a very [TS]

  it's interesting to AC a different sort [TS]

  of almost part of yourself in that that [TS]

  you know driving for me typically is [TS]

  about safety and economy in met you my [TS]

  entire life like that's what that's [TS]

  essentially what i'm trying to do is I'm [TS]

  going to get from here to there you know [TS]

  safely and effectively was interesting [TS]

  to try that city to business you going [TS]

  through the same motions you know my [TS]

  hands are strong wheel my feet on the [TS]

  pedals about doing it for two completely [TS]

  different goal and seeing how different [TS]

  that feels and seeing how you react to [TS]

  that by putting yourself into that [TS]

  situation and you know it's it's [TS]

  definitely not for me in terms of you as [TS]

  a hobby or something out doing a [TS]

  long-term long-term both from a little [TS]

  bit of motion sickness and those types [TS]

  of things but also just it's a no it's [TS]

  it's a skill that I don't think I'd [TS]

  naturally have nor do I think enjoyed to [TS]

  a sufficient degree that I would be able [TS]

  to put in the Indian of the hours and [TS]

  hours of time and money and do the just [TS]

  piles of money that it would take to get [TS]

  good at but it's very fun to go out and [TS]

  try it and to see what that's like so [TS]

  that now I kind of have a sense that if [TS]

  I sit down and watch top gear episode i [TS]

  watch a an f1 race on TV or something [TS]

  like that [TS]

  I kind of know what's going on at least [TS]

  a vague level that I just didn't really [TS]

  appreciate before then I see someone [TS]

  doing something while I don't think I [TS]

  could do it myself i know just how [TS]

  difficult it is I'm and that's you know [TS]

  that's kind of fun and it's kind of [TS]

  dated so it's it's a rare and rare these [TS]

  days to be able to know something about [TS]

  yourself that you didn't before and it's [TS]

  kind of fun to go off and explore that [TS]

  yeah now John which one of the three of [TS]

  us do you reckon was the first to drive [TS]

  marcos and five subsequent to the two [TS]

  day in school [TS]

  ah which one of the three of you mhm [TS]

  that depends on how tired marker was [TS]

  anyone to be chauffeured back to its [TS]

  going i was thinking i would assume Argo [TS]

  is somebody might want to sit out by one [TS]

  investor now actually as it turned out [TS]

  so i talked about this quickly in the [TS]

  past I where weirdo hard contact lenses [TS]

  which are very rough to have on for many [TS]

  many many many hours at once and so I [TS]

  said to Marco and Dave hey listen you [TS]

  know my eyes are going to get really [TS]

  cranky not too long from now because we [TS]

  were leaving the school at five or six [TS]

  o'clock in the evening and so I [TS]

  volunteered to take the first leg and [TS]

  this is pretty much entirely [TS]

  unremarkable except that when we got on [TS]

  interstate 85 i found a hole right after [TS]

  we got on the interstate and so I got [TS]

  left very casually and very safely as [TS]

  opposed to my normal approaches a BMW [TS]

  driver and I wanted to collapse the [TS]

  space in front of me and so I wouldn't [TS]

  say I stood on the gas but I definitely [TS]

  got on the gas and Marco has his speed [TS]

  morning settings set the same way I do [TS]

  which is 85 miles an hour and and BMWs [TS]

  tend to overcompensate and so 85 miles [TS]

  an hour indicated is really about 80 [TS]

  miles an hour and so I collapse the [TS]

  space in front of me Nova has all of a [TS]

  sudden you're putting and I realize oh [TS]

  god I've driven for two straight days [TS]

  without a speed limit anywhere in sight [TS]

  and i just did about 9,400 trying to [TS]

  collapsing onto under the car in front [TS]

  of me which I can't do anymore and I [TS]

  think for all three of us it was a [TS]

  little bit of an adjustment going back [TS]

  to driving like a civilized human being [TS]

  David how hard was it for you and your [TS]

  corolla to to drive normally it it was [TS]

  fine [TS]

  I i was able to handle it i will say i [TS]

  had since driving since I do think my [TS]

  driving style has changed slightly that [TS]

  I think and the way that i'm driving is [TS]

  just [TS]

  like to do a bit more conscious and [TS]

  precise which is kind of fun to to see [TS]

  even just applied to my tiny blue [TS]

  corolla that I dry and i barely drive [TS]

  but you know it was different was [TS]

  strange having spent five five or six [TS]

  days straight driving & M cars [TS]

  consistently and then immediately after [TS]

  I got home I had to make a quick run to [TS]

  the UPS store to return some of the [TS]

  cameras i rented for the trip and it's [TS]

  like getting a micro and turning it on [TS]

  and they're being comparatively no noise [TS]

  when you turn the engine on you know [TS]

  just turned on rather than there being [TS]

  this like was comparatively no engine [TS]

  yeah you have exactly just that there's [TS]

  nothing there's no low bassy kind of [TS]

  booming sound that comes out of it's [TS]

  like all right I'm home again i would [TS]

  say also and and this I don't know how [TS]

  well this is going to go over with this [TS]

  audience well who-who weekend who's [TS]

  listening [TS]

  I think you know every time I i drive [TS]

  every time you do something like this [TS]

  which is not very often but where I [TS]

  where I see like what the M cars can do [TS]

  it becomes more clear to me that i [TS]

  really don't need to be driving one that [TS]

  in my in my day-to-day life like my car [TS]

  is a complete waste of all that power in [TS]

  my day-to-day life because you know [TS]

  ideally if you get an M car if it spends [TS]

  any time in 6th or 7th gear you're [TS]

  probably doing it wrong [TS]

  in retrospect I think if they put a [TS]

  decent transmission in the 550i xdrive i [TS]

  would probably be perfectly happy in [TS]

  that car [TS]

  however they don't put a decent [TS]

  transmission in it so I its height [TS]

  I wouldn't be you know speaking of [TS]

  emotion sickness and the powerful cars [TS]

  being wasted every when I was very young [TS]

  I wanted to be a fighter pilot and then [TS]

  in fifth grade we went on a whale watch [TS]

  off of Montauk Point and I stopped [TS]

  wanting to be a fighter pilot because i [TS]

  found out i get terribly motion sick and [TS]

  that's kind of you know out of the [TS]

  question if your fighter pilot and so [TS]

  that also ruled out high-performance [TS]

  cars and even though i'd read car [TS]

  magazines you know my whole life I [TS]

  always knew that you know I could never [TS]

  actually drive one of these cars like [TS]

  sent to be driven [TS]

  however I maintain that I still want my [TS]

  Ferrari I was going to ask even though i [TS]

  will never be able to drive the way it's [TS]

  meant to be driven I wanted to drive it [TS]

  you know stupidly briefly so they don't [TS]

  get second because it's a work of art so [TS]

  I I don't [TS]

  and Marco can make his decision but if I [TS]

  I would still if I had the means end up [TS]

  getting a car that is totally wasted i [TS]

  made the same way i'm about to get a [TS]

  computer the mac pro that's pretty much [TS]

  gonna be totally wasted I mean you know [TS]

  ridiculous dual workstation class you [TS]

  used to play video games kind of in a [TS]

  mediocre manner I I think that's [TS]

  perfectly fine if that's what you want [TS]

  to spend your money on go for but I've [TS]

  always known that even though what I [TS]

  would end up with even though I kind of [TS]

  like the philosophy of BMW is I would [TS]

  end up with my Ferrari and neck [TS]

  mercedes s-class and mostly i would [TS]

  recommend mostly I would drive the [TS]

  mercedes and then you know on weekends [TS]

  or vacations or whatever drug take the [TS]

  Ferrari out for brief stints and yes it [TS]

  would be totally wasted but actually i [TS]

  would be preserving its resale value was [TS]

  thinking that way and on that bombshell [TS]

  I think we're done [TS]

  oh goodness anything else gentlemen I [TS]

  think that's it I mean Dave any closing [TS]

  comments on I guess you already gave [TS]

  them but any closing comments on the [TS]

  experience as a whole and and how this [TS]

  has changed you as a person i think [TS]

  mostly just thanks to you guys for [TS]

  coming along on this ride with me i know [TS]

  it didn't take much convincing but I'm [TS]

  definitely was a lot more fun than I [TS]

  think if I'd ever done something like [TS]

  this myself so indifferent get it to [TS]

  work out to do with to do with other [TS]

  people but definitely recommend it to [TS]

  somebody else and just a lot of fun to [TS]

  to try something that's that's so [TS]

  different to see how you react to it and [TS]

  then to know well you know it's like [TS]

  like that this is a whole box you can [TS]

  check and see like you have different [TS]

  car driven you know fast cars quickly [TS]

  rather than just slow car slowly [TS]

  alright well thank you for turning 30 [TS]

  and what did you say you're placing the [TS]

  order for your 328 I'm still on the [TS]

  fence about that my corolla is doing [TS]

  just fine [TS]

  we should we should say before we close [TS]

  the show that casey and i were plotting [TS]

  via i am like I'm two months ago about [TS]

  what kind of car we're going to convince [TS]

  Dave to buy because we knew that we [TS]

  probably couldn't get into a 335 that [TS]

  would be too much of a jumpy probably [TS]

  can go for that we also know that we [TS]

  don't want him buying the 320 because [TS]

  that's just stupid [TS]

  my position was quickly my position on [TS]

  320 is that it is a little bit cheaper [TS]

  but it's still not a cheap car it is not [TS]

  any lighter weight or meaningfully more [TS]

  fuel-efficient than 328 so why why [TS]

  bother getting 320 except to save some [TS]

  money on a not cheap car why not spend [TS]

  the extra little bit of money to get 328 [TS]

  which is a way nicer car than 320 so we [TS]

  were we when plotting to convince Dave [TS]

  to buy 328 as as his corolla replacement [TS]

  even though the crows need to be [TS]

  replaced [TS]

  technically idealistically it does and [TS]

  or you know philosophically it needs to [TS]

  be replaced so everyone on the internet [TS]

  please convince underscore David Smith [TS]

  to buy a 328i you can come with me David [TS]

  test drive a stick shift to court you [TS]

  like it sounds perfect i think I get [TS]

  three or four of those for the cost of [TS]

  it that's right here you can have you [TS]

  can have one for each day of the week [TS]

  instead of the 328 you could have your [TS]

  day according your night record it on [TS]

  all right are we done now [TS]

  yeah I think that's it thanks a lot [TS]

  listeners for tolerating all this [TS]

  yeah and no guarantees about any other [TS]

  neutrals but thanks for listening to [TS]

  this little one off special so thanks [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  finally Berkeley's newsy yes don't know [TS]

  that I don't think I knew that how about [TS]

  that must make for an interesting [TS]

  celebration every year [TS]

  hey see if you can figure out what my [TS]

  celebration is like every year you going [TS]

  to bed early sprite is frightening would [TS]

  go to bed early and now it's the best [TS]

  everyone else's nice sprites everyone [TS]

  else's out partying and I can just let [TS]

  me know you're my record [TS]

  yes you do that and I don't have spread [TS]

  outside of a restaurant that used to do [TS]

  the wouldn't have sold in house at all [TS]

  these do the thing where you have to [TS]

  like or you wanna pick where you want to [TS]

  go out on your birthday you know like [TS]

  your family you know when your kid you [TS]

  know whichever restaurant you want to go [TS]

  to you will go out to but I could never [TS]

  do that because you can't get into a [TS]

  restaurant you know in New Year's Eve [TS]

  unless you reserve like you know weeks [TS]

  in advance we never would so we always [TS]

  have to have my birthday dinner on the [TS]

  day other than my actual birthday [TS]

  because impossible to get out that night [TS]

  it's kind of set sorry I'm still playing [TS]

  like your fighter pilot dream being [TS]

  crushed this has been very set who who [TS]

  invited you on to this episode there [TS]

  right there good things about my [TS]

  birthday being close to Christmas [TS]

  because that meant that I could double [TS]

  up birthday and Christmas and get the [TS]

  one big gift that I want which in my [TS]

  case is get ready young people 450 [TS]

  dollery under a floppy drive night not a [TS]

  combined birthday if I combined birthday [TS]

  Christmas ink and give you hundred [TS]

  dollars of my own money can i get a 450 [TS]

  dollar floppy drive [TS]

  yes yes I can [TS]