The Talk Show

79: Whatever Jobs Had His Pants on Fire For


  mark government so we haven't we've never spoken before right yeah that's [TS]

  right we haven't spoken before [TS]

  for those who don't know Mark is what you have a title this reporter i mean [TS]

  ago senior writer but I report that it managed all sorts of senior editor 9 to [TS]

  5 Mac how long have you been running from 9 to 5 Mac since right when the [TS]

  first iPad was announced it can give or take a couple weeks that so early 2010 [TS]

  about four years right and you are only 11 years old [TS]

  yes exactly eleven years old now about double that so twenty are you really [TS]

  know how old are you [TS]

  money so you still didn't even have drinking it to you but you started [TS]

  writing professionally for 9 to 5 Mac when you were 16 years old [TS]

  ya around six years old maybe in 15 innings and honestly I don't know why I [TS]

  am NOT the show you how much research I do for the show you are you in college [TS]

  yeah so I'm a sophomore at the University Michigan in my heart you're [TS]

  right now [TS]

  yeah and yet you are and I mean this i'm not just saying that cuz your guests on [TS]

  the show but you're seriously one of the most influential reporters on the Apple [TS]

  beat [TS]

  specially from you of course I mean I think you're the most influential so [TS]

  well but I don't really do reporting and I think that'll make for an interesting [TS]

  conversation you know and I think over the last few years I've even gotten [TS]

  further away from that whereas sort of see myself more as a commentator on the [TS]

  reporting of others as opposed to someone who does a lot of original [TS]

  breaks a lot of original news is that too much news it's been broken on their [TS]

  incredible recently yeah I mean your opinion is just so sharp and strong in [TS]

  matters so much so I guess you know either way you look at it whether its [TS]

  original recording or you know original commentary you know either is great [TS]

  thank you [TS]

  go back so how did you get started writing for 9 to 5 Mac so before the [TS]

  first iPad came out I was doing some digging around on you know domain and [TS]

  who is searches to see if a ball was you know snapping up any domain names having [TS]

  to do with tablets cause I remembered that someone spotted that they [TS]

  registered MacBook Air dot com or something like that before the first [TS]

  year was announced in 2008 and so sure enough Apple had under a shell company [TS]

  registered I sleet calm and there was some New York Times executive who had [TS]

  some internal meeting and months in late 2009 talking about how he said that the [TS]

  impending Apple sleep so i mean i think im gonna call Apple's late but you know [TS]

  i sleepies incense and I pieced it together and that really got me started [TS]

  with you know being around and getting the news out there and you know how did [TS]

  you how did you put that out that you have your own blog or did you know I [TS]

  tipped rumors actually [TS]

  and how do you got credit for it down there and I put me on the map a bit and [TS]

  then I talked to said that 95 and you know we work something out here we are [TS]

  today that's why I guess he's the founder of yea yea publisher or 925 [TS]

  whatever empire that's really really interesting and i think that there's [TS]

  sort of a [TS]

  and once a strong tradition but sassy you know there's a strain know of apple [TS]

  and i dont wanna quite call it rumor reporting will get back to that will get [TS]

  back to that art that the R word as I call it but you do break you know a lot [TS]

  of in a lot of your better-known stuff is for breaking news about you know [TS]

  stuff that supposed to be secret right right so rumors is the bridge the wrong [TS]

  way we can get back to that in a bit but sort of the wrong word but there's a [TS]

  history of that though coming from teenagers really I mean and I and the [TS]

  example I'm thinking of and I hadn't thought of him for a while but NIC 0 le [TS]

  who was wrote under the pen name of nick de plume right [TS]

  secret right on think secret now this is weird does this is a thing where if [TS]

  you're 20 years old the think secret stuff must seem like ancient history to [TS]

  yeah it was way before my time so you will not hold things went down that was [TS]

  that was you weren't you were probably like 10 10 years older something that [TS]

  probably we have to go to think secret that come now it's turned off so think [TS]

  secret shut down like an early iPhone days founded in 1998 so it was that [TS]

  preceded even during fireball by four years and shut down in 2008 so yeah you [TS]

  know you must have been somewhat paying attention to the media if if I 2010 you [TS]

  were breaking stories on domain registrations first that you know but in [TS]

  Annex II rally was you know really young for most of the run of think secret you [TS]

  know teenager and then I think he was at Harvard when this stuff lying down with [TS]

  the lawsuit that effectively shut it down right yeah that's pretty much where [TS]

  actors well he was in high school and then moved into college went down and I [TS]

  can't imagine being in issues going through you know the Apple lawsuit on [TS]

  top of you gonna school you know that I don't I don't envy him and that way I [TS]

  don't know I don't really envy you going to school and being [TS]

  effectively a full-time reporters when I was in school I just SAT around played [TS]

  video games I guess I really try actually worked at the casino did a lot [TS]

  of writing and editing at the student newspaper but you know but it's it's you [TS]

  know I was writing for an audience of three or four thousand other students at [TS]

  Drexel University where is your writing for an audience of I don't I'm guessing [TS]

  at least 200,000 or more readers of 9 to 5 Mac [TS]

  remarkable for someone who's you know like I said can legally buy beer yeah [TS]

  why do you think there's anything to that I i dont know to me there is [TS]

  something to the idea of a truly in a static teenager who just has like an [TS]

  obsession with with this sort of stuff getting information that for lack of a [TS]

  better word older and more established reporters aren't getting right even [TS]

  though you're on the outside you're not even in the area I did you grow up in [TS]

  Michigan no I'm from Los Angeles 2010 or even close but still you're still not [TS]

  from the you know the valley or San Francisco now so I don't know where you [TS]

  from there [TS]

  know you know I'm in Philadelphia now and I grew up in philadelphia yeah yeah [TS]

  same story for you but you know that's your point there's a lot of talk about [TS]

  that starting at the young age that I started out and Nick things secret [TS]

  started out i mean when you're working you know under 20 years old on the steps [TS]

  up its not really like the left for lack of better term 2925 day job or you know [TS]

  get up every morning to your stuff you know [TS]

  finish up and go home it's more about Carbajal be like I don't need to have [TS]

  that job I mean it was just something that I really enjoyed and I keep me [TS]

  fashion trend after no one was forcing you to do any of that and that takes a [TS]

  lot of the burden off me and I need to focus on what I like to do now I mean [TS]

  was it Apple specifically that you've always been interested in yeah you know [TS]

  I've always really been a huge Apple fan [TS]

  you know wait in line for the first iPhone I was you know so thrilled and [TS]

  remember you know actually to show you how much I really love out why when I [TS]

  was 13 years old then needing to be preparing for my bar mitzvah the rabbis [TS]

  working with caps I mean you need to stop watching that iPhone Tito and [TS]

  Rebbie and get you know your stuff so I so wasn't like you were watching it cuz [TS]

  it was the day the key know you were just watching it repeated that the [TS]

  videotape experience I guess the thing that I did that strikes me as [TS]

  interesting and I think it's also proof of sort of being in the modern Internet [TS]

  age is that where you r doesn't really matter that I mean people I get that [TS]

  sometimes too where people are sometimes surprised I'm in philadelphia and I'm [TS]

  not in San Francisco or the Valley area that you know why you seem really tuned [TS]

  in I don't know that really makes a difference with you know although the [TS]

  messaging options you have been you know frankly just good old email [TS]

  well I can see how if it's a team I can see why teams sometimes don't wanna have [TS]

  remote workers depending on the style of collaboration and what what exactly the [TS]

  project they're supposed to be working on together as I can see you know I [TS]

  understand I actually understand a lot why Apple doesn't have a lot of remote [TS]

  employees is sure to have to get an exception to the rule to be at a remote [TS]

  engineer designer Apple but for this sort of stuff we do writing about them [TS]

  it really doesn't make that much of a difference I don't think of course like [TS]

  in terms of communicating with people [TS]

  yeah ten years ago this job would have been possible living outside of the the [TS]

  valley san francisco Cupertino area but I mean unless it was good old phone [TS]

  calls but these days you know there's so many you know tools for talking to [TS]

  people and in terms of you know like remote work we don't have enough I'm at [TS]

  office I mean we just such a great collaboration tools online and you know [TS]

  in a way doing this job not sitting with everyone in the same room you know could [TS]

  be easier I mean I don't really have much to compare it to but that's just [TS]

  how I look at it right it would be no [TS]

  of all the ways that 92595 Google might expand I'm sure opening an office space [TS]

  for you guys probably not even on the list because you guys aren't even do any [TS]

  of you guys work in the same area not no not really I'm the only one on the west [TS]

  coast when I'm home [TS]

  breaks in the summer everyone else that's in New York Jordans in Canada and [TS]

  everyone's mostly stationed on the east or ok so pretty spread I do think for me [TS]

  personally and my you know experience and it's just crazy this is one of those [TS]

  things where it's crazy to me because I've been writing during fireball for 12 [TS]

  years so that means you over eight years old when I started I wanna know it [TS]

  wasn't prepared for this that must mean no te I'm guessing from your perception [TS]

  I've always been writing their enviable always been writing their trouble is [TS]

  that how you see it that there's always been some guy Gruber writes this site [TS]

  during fireball about you know the thing with the group I mean classic Gruber my [TS]

  opinion is the your story back in 2008 he called it contains spoilers where you [TS]

  sarcastically I think pointed out all the features and all the new things are [TS]

  going out that unibody MacBook of that and everything turned out more clearly [TS]

  correct so I've been following your stuff for a long time and that's the [TS]

  yeah I mean all group has been around awhile to me it still feels like it's a [TS]

  kind of a new site I still feel like doing fireballs someone now [TS]

  and that's obviously not the case no I mean maybe that's what keeps you feeling [TS]

  like it's fun for me but must be crazy to me that thing that you were eight [TS]

  years old when I started that is pretty crazy and I have found no I have found [TS]

  that and again I'm not really in the braking leaks gamer the rumor game [TS]

  whatever you wanna call it although I dabbled in it for a couple of years in [TS]

  the middle and we can talk about that later but I found though that I [TS]

  developed my best sources once I started going to things on the west coast [TS]

  you know WBC and Macworld Expo and meeting people and it wasn't because I [TS]

  had to meet them face to face to hear the information but it was having met [TS]

  them even just once face-to-face develops there's a certain relationship [TS]

  you can sort of accelerate a circle of trust where they trust me and I trust [TS]

  them and then you know future information might come in by email or [TS]

  instant message or something like that but having met them makes a big [TS]

  difference but I get the feeling you haven't met most of your sources I think [TS]

  I'm pretty much in the same boat as you I mean I've been going to these [TS]

  conferences for a few years now so I've met a lot of people you know good old [TS]

  face to face that and I agree it's extremely important so you have done no [TS]

  wrong I was saying that I'm I guess what you had not met them but you're saying [TS]

  you have some yeah yeah that's right yeah yeah and it definitely helps i [TS]

  think im just human nature right here just talking through you know instant [TS]

  messages text to another person to really get a good idea if you should [TS]

  trust them or even if they should trust you and open up to you but when you know [TS]

  someone in person it's like you know you you really get to know that you can bond [TS]

  with them it and don't feel more comfortable with you in you'll feel more [TS]

  comfortable with them so it's really like you said you don't have to you know [TS]

  why out San Francisco to talk to them every time there's some information [TS]

  there's other ways of communicating [TS]

  trying to remember some of the old rumor sites I forget their names I have such a [TS]

  bad memory for stuff like that but in the old days like the late nineties and [TS]

  in this way before your time late nineties in the early years of Mac OS 10 [TS]

  2001 2002 there are you know as always I mean Apple Insider was around Apple [TS]

  Insider is like the granddaddy I think of the the sort of focus on rumors type [TS]

  stuff but there is think secret from 98 on and I should get some of the other [TS]

  ones but they had such terrible track records they still do you know and and [TS]

  spaghetti against the wall see what sticks approach and then the one strand [TS]

  of spaghetti that does stick there like CCE we got it right and I always had [TS]

  this idea in the back of my head like what would it take to run an accurate [TS]

  Apple rumors you know what why and why are they also inaccurate if you take [TS]

  them in the aggregate just drives me nuts to have my name on something that [TS]

  was so wrong and regularly right yeah I mean inaccuracies the worst thing [TS]

  someone you know our positions will we do i mean people gonna read us if we're [TS]

  just you know spitting BS all day and we're gonna believe your future stuff [TS]

  yeah exactly it's about gaining trust of the reader and the way to do that is by [TS]

  consistently providing them they're looking for you know kind of my problem [TS]

  to your point about being wrong is there seems to be a lot of talk lately people [TS]

  grouping all websites even you know my working on a fight back into that [TS]

  category cuz I remember like when I had the 64 bit seven chip someone tweeted I [TS]

  think actually might have been you about like how was just spitting spit balls [TS]

  out the wall to see what sticks so yeah I mean I don't enjoy when I see people [TS]

  grouping us all together a kind of just makes all that hard work I put in [TS]

  another accurate sides put in like you know come out bad but the rest [TS]

  yea well any other thing too [TS]

  that it's a little bit problem africa's name there was a guy is the unofficial [TS]

  Apple weblog site you sorta did I don't forget it was a mark fuhrman scorecard [TS]

  or 9 to 5 Mac in general scorecard right 9 to 5 Mac in general what happened [TS]

  there was is he basically you know noted that hey we got all these stories right [TS]

  perfect track record for 2013 and then regrouped in all of our quote unquote [TS]

  you know no danger reblogging stories from other sites into that overall track [TS]

  record which I didn't think was very fair saying that every Apple rumor [TS]

  website works the same way I mean you can't like if you link to someone who [TS]

  report something wrong and you know you linked to or whatever and then people [TS]

  say was wrong you know you're linking to some random York Times or something i [TS]

  mean how you feel about that [TS]

  well I'm a little it's it's the difference in the publishing models I i [TS]

  have to be there a little bit of respect for me I have to be a little bit of [TS]

  responsibility if I post a link to something that's going to save some and [TS]

  I like a lot of times you know let's say it's a French language Mac site na have [TS]

  pictures that purportedly come from the Asian supply chain [TS]

  shows the back of this year's new iPad Mini that happened last year yes if I [TS]

  linked to it I sort of feel like we're filing to something like that and I [TS]

  don't think the stuff like that a lot anymore but if I do I feel like I'm on [TS]

  the hook to sort of say whether I believe it or not to I think this is [TS]

  legit or not sure if I said I don't know this looks fishy as hell right that's [TS]

  different whereas like what [TS]

  9 to 5 Mac does is a lot of other sites [TS]

  yes you know it's sort of that MacRumors dot com model of look we're gonna tell [TS]

  you what everybody's reporting and you'll say your credit you'll say you [TS]

  know blah blah blah died Fri French language Mac site [TS]

  you know here's a link to the Google Translate version of their original [TS]

  report is saying that this here's the picture is a is the back of a think [TS]

  you're not saying it doesn't say our sources say it's you know this site says [TS]

  this year it is judge for yourself and that the two are report lumped all those [TS]

  in with what I believe to be mostly your work the the you know mark fuhrman [TS]

  reporting for 9 to 5 Mac says according to sources you know you know he was in a [TS]

  recent example I know had probably wasn't on the 2013 scorecard 2014 budget [TS]

  you had here screenshots of the currently in beta health book app from [TS]

  Iowa State yeah it's gonna be like passbook except it's gonna you know have [TS]

  integration with you know who knows what kind of devices and stuff but did you [TS]

  know iOS users will have this past our health book out here it is and that's [TS]

  you not say you know didn't come from another site that you reporting with [TS]

  screenshots and information from you know somehow sources in the know right [TS]

  and that's different and those stories and you know i i say this is one of the [TS]

  reasons I'm excited to have you on the show your record for 2013 was pretty [TS]

  much spot on preciate it right I don't think you had any stories that really [TS]

  you know maybe someday dotted i's and crossed he's you know when you're [TS]

  writing about this stuff that's pre-release but probably needed to [TS]

  retract pretty good year yeah nothing to be retracted I mean I look at the look [TS]

  at it as a necessary evil and IMAX can exist as a site that only posts original [TS]

  content it's impossible you would get it wouldn't destroy the website it would [TS]

  destroy any Apple rumor website it would just be you see look at other websites [TS]

  they can you know just a great everything from anywhere why would [TS]

  anyone read us just written content when they can just get the original content [TS]

  alongside every thing else from another site so that you know we have to do it [TS]

  but I agree we could do a better job and we've been trying this a lot lately to [TS]

  you know say you know your words this is fishy as hell don't believe it [TS]

  but people have the right to make their own decisions and we need to provide the [TS]

  readers that they want that was more or less the conclusion I came to you know [TS]

  circuit it's a 2008 2008 2007 2008 2009 when I posted a few more I was more [TS]

  commonly posting sort of I think it I i got I got a kick out of it but it was [TS]

  the way that I broke rumors if I had something was always to be very coy [TS]

  about it and write that of saying hey I have a source who says I was gonna [TS]

  rename forget the old name what was it called I tools to go to rename it [TS]

  MobileMe something like that I i would do something 'cause and just be like [TS]

  wouldn't it be something if Apple renamed idols MobileMe right yeah and [TS]

  got the domain name [TS]

  doesn't that sound like something out but we do or I did that all I remember [TS]

  and I did that with the Windows version of Safari I got that like the night or [TS]

  two before the double deck was at WWC might have been a macro [TS]

  sometimes the Macworld expose them to be the BBC's blur together was at WWDC [TS]

  keynote right I found out about Windows first Safari for Windows and I quick [TS]

  grab through my server logs and daring fireball and found a few hits from it [TS]

  from the night before because that was when they flip the switch like up until [TS]

  like the day before they'd had you know some kind of guy I don't i think [TS]

  probably the user agent string just said that it was on a Mac but then the night [TS]

  before when they actually had the real billed for it I found a few mins as I go [TS]

  bingo so I had it but I didn't say hey they're gonna do it again I said we need [TS]

  idea of the version of support giving ice water to someone and how you know I [TS]

  including the former soviet engineers they wrote something about [TS]

  how they use fake user agent they write it to a jar something pretty sketchy I [TS]

  thought that was interesting but you know to your point I I always remember [TS]

  you do in your early writing never to be like long-term rumor reporting like you [TS]

  know I dunno thursday was always very quiet like I you know I remember the [TS]

  wall street journal put out some post about how they said like Apple is [TS]

  developing a CDMA iPhone they like it and even know about the retinas blade a [TS]

  floor that I still do stuff like you know i will like it just so cool you [TS]

  know the only way you can do that is if you don't have a reputation for being a [TS]

  cure in the past you can't just come out of the woodwork in SE such-and-such [TS]

  quietly no one's gonna know to look for that you know but the thing I figured [TS]

  out I really did figure out like breaking more rumors and trying to be as [TS]

  accurate as possible and I think I did but the truth is even when you're trying [TS]

  to do it if you're gonna be accurate as possible you just don't get that much so [TS]

  you can't like you said you can't run a site where that's all you have [TS]

  there's just not enough and it's not enough stuff to publish to have enough [TS]

  oxygen to breathe in terms of just having readers coming every day [TS]

  gotta have more stuff I mean it's the constant use to the site and everyone [TS]

  coming together stuff that you know kids me and others the opportunity to step [TS]

  back and focus on getting the original stuff you know let me take a break right [TS]

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  smile software smile software dot com slash talk show that's it [TS]

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  with PDS [TS]

  on a regular basis you you owe it to yourself to check before again this was [TS]

  civics would maybe later in the show will get into specifics and some of the [TS]

  recent stuff you've reported now that you've established a name for yourself [TS]

  do you find that you get random stuff emailed to you or tweeted to you like [TS]

  privately or something like you know hey you don't know me but I you know I [TS]

  happen to know and then insert some kind of blank blank scandal you know [TS]

  scandalous rumor here and you've got it sorted judge hey is this thing on the [TS]

  you know not that you would run it just because somebody emailed it to you but [TS]

  you're worth looking into I mean I read all the emails and tweets that come in [TS]

  cetera but I think I do a pretty good job parsing out you know the sink the [TS]

  signal from the noise so do you get a lot of noise do I get a lot of noise you [TS]

  know the tip off you know sometimes floods up with [TS]

  that's not true but you know everything that I really report comes from sources [TS]

  that have developed over the years who I trust immensely I don't run anything [TS]

  from a first-time source ever and that since corroborated you know several [TS]

  times over i mean there's the rare occasion where someone will come out of [TS]

  the woodwork and tell you something and then you know you ask the people you [TS]

  know we've known for a while [TS]

  you know what's up with this is true and you know sometimes you get the you know [TS]

  the great lie in there you go but I I found that I i dont get it was weird [TS]

  there was a couple years back I got more than it seems like I get less now but I [TS]

  would say at least once a month [TS]

  wasn't just like one Khuc it was you know once a month or so somebody who [TS]

  I've never heard of before would send me email it still happens now but maybe not [TS]

  as often as once a month but just say look I have been to know that Apple is [TS]

  blah blah blah you know I gotta tell you like an example that I got all the time [TS]

  I'm sure I've got some probably sitting in my inbox on red right now is somebody [TS]

  saying that they know for a fact that Apple is going to ship the next iPhone [TS]

  is going to have a screen bigger screen it's gonna be inserts oversized here 5.1 [TS]

  inches gonna be 1080p and I know this for a fact bababababa and I it's like i [TS]

  don't know what they're you know and I know that I just know that they're full [TS]

  of it like I gotta I've got these last year and like where they were right in [TS]

  saying that last year's iPhone 5s was gonna come in two sizes I knew that it [TS]

  was a new for a fact that it wasn't and I always wondered what is with these [TS]

  people like what are they trying to do it just trying to make a jerk economy [TS]

  like see if they can get me to go for it like I don't see what pleasure they [TS]

  would get if I happened to run it or what they think I'm going to do [TS]

  yeah that's a great point you haven't really put too much thought into that [TS]

  but of course there's no guarantee fireball you say your YouTube audience [TS]

  seemed not to fly back I mean I guess there are some people who might get a [TS]

  thrill out of you know sending something that's totally not true and see but ends [TS]

  up calling on the site [TS]

  yeah I agree I can think of some examples and it's always from people who [TS]

  don't put their name on the email it's you know it's it's like you know like go [TS]

  ahead 67 @ yeah I'm just going to run that right do you have you ever [TS]

  read my site its very always you know strikes me as crazy but then you know [TS]

  who knows there's a lot of crazy people out there [TS]

  yeah the best part in my opinion is when this happens you know it's very likely [TS]

  that they sent the same you know the ass to another site one of the competitors [TS]

  and then when you see like another Apple rumors I just thought up there saying [TS]

  love comes from a source Baba Baba and he knows clearly BS and they post [TS]

  anyways it's so easy to see the processes of the competition [TS]

  yeah I saw that I actually saw that last year was some of the screen size stuff [TS]

  where I saw some you know second tier sites running it when I think was [TS]

  probably sent by the same person inside come on I mean I remember like not [TS]

  really example I can't really remember huge opposition but there was some [TS]

  big thing about how there was no way Microsoft insider sent out a bunch of [TS]

  details about the new Xbox that Xbox one some site ran it in from other sources [TS]

  and then but so either side came out said Oh we all got the same kit and then [TS]

  the guy who said today it made like this little website or blog and said oh yeah [TS]

  yeah I remember that I remember that that was pretty good yeah I can find [TS]

  them right it was I just [TS]

  and it became like like the biggest it was at the top of the day unlike Hacker [TS]

  News and text me man was like how how how to trick the press into running a [TS]

  rumor and you know i mean it was pretty sad for me because you know I spent so [TS]

  much time and I know you have as well as other reporters in this industry spent [TS]

  so much time building up their brands trying to convince people that you know [TS]

  not every Riverside is just rumor sites and then another notable site comes out [TS]

  you know pulls this shit just you know poster and rumors that it's all verified [TS]

  what not you know just puts a bad taste in your mouth through the whole entire [TS]

  industry so I don't have it in front of me but as I recall the gist of it was he [TS]

  mailed it out and nothing happen right away but I think it was SlashGear ran it [TS]

  and if I'm wrong and it wasn't SlashGear my apologies to everybody but I think it [TS]

  was / care ran it and they ran it with you know they weren't it pretty [TS]

  accurately they relate look this is unverified but we have a source who says [TS]

  white blank and blank about the next Xbox but as soon as they ran it it it it [TS]

  became other side picked it up because then either side's case Slashdot are / [TS]

  guitar / dots last year is saying the Xbox has blank blank blank and then all [TS]

  of a sudden that doesn't seem anywhere near as sketchy because it's not a we [TS]

  have this unverified thing from someone whose name we can tell you all of a [TS]

  sudden that's the first-hand report it's that then the secondhand reports [TS]

  actually sound better source because they say SlashGear which is a real site [TS]

  has a reputation is saying the Xbox has black and then all of a sudden everybody [TS]

  else and then adjust it does pinball around the entire TechWeb right because [TS]

  now everybody is reporting it now Mashable has it and you know TechCrunch [TS]

  has something right and there's a few issues there in terms of the industry in [TS]

  general the first issue would be whoever said this was I don't remember she was [TS]

  like you're not reporting something unverified from their ten tips box in [TS]

  the first place I don't think I would ever do that or I don't think I've ever [TS]

  done that in the past you know the next issue is sites you know not taking into [TS]

  account the sketching in nature of the original pour another issue is that not [TS]

  leaking out clearly to this last year so readers can make their own judgment it [TS]

  would be like if somebody just dropped a sandwich off at your door you know what [TS]

  you eat it right there's just a sandwich that you never asked for sitting in your [TS]

  doorstep yeah and the whole broken telephone game with three body you know [TS]

  you can start off saying you know this is completely yes we don't even trust [TS]

  him or just publishing it for discussion in like two hours later some blog ensayo [TS]

  reports confirm such-and-such about the new Xbox so it's a shitshow out there [TS]

  something totally let me take a break right here and thank our second sponsor [TS]

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  within your web browser and so you can do the follow along with the exercises [TS]

  in the browser while you follow the course is all sort they're they're just [TS]

  starting to integrate that into good stuff coming up other [TS]

  courses that might be of interest to people listening to the show they have a [TS]

  new course called programming for non-programmers Iowa 7 that was just [TS]

  released this week [TS]

  you take this course and you follow along and you build your first iOS app [TS]

  and one afternoon so if you've ever thought about starting to build iOS apps [TS]

  there you go it's perfect course for beginners they even have a new courses [TS]

  how much how up to date there they do Adobe just came out with Lightroom for [TS]

  mobile take an iPad version of Lightroom [TS]

  that integrates with your Mac version they have a course teacher had taken [TS]

  most advantage of that Lightroom for mobile all sorts of great stuff great [TS]

  company [TS]

  here's where you go to find out more and when you follow this code you have an [TS]

  even better deal [TS]

  the regular deal 25 bucks a month unlimited video access great deal [TS]

  follow this code ly and the with the Y / the talk show and [TS]

  you get tried for 347 days 37 days watch all the videos you want [TS]

  fantastic deal go to / the talk show seven days free mike thanks to [TS]

  them so let's get a little specific so here's here's why in this I have to say [TS]

  this is the story that sort of prompted me to invite have had you on Craig [TS]

  Hockenberry was on a couple weeks ago we were talking about I think your health [TS]

  book report earlier sure but last week you had a story on 9 to 5 Mac they have [TS]

  it open here to tap the headline Jony ive shakes up Apple's software design [TS]

  group com iPhone interface creator Greg Christie departing [TS]

  first thing I think that comma should be a semicolon ok as commerce place but [TS]

  it's it's it's avoid the grammar and and and stick to the details in the first [TS]

  sentence of the reporters following friction between top Human Interface [TS]

  Vice President Greg Christie and senior vice president Jony ive Apple's hardware [TS]

  and software design is being dramatically shaken up according to [TS]

  sources familiar with the matter so first things first you were the first to [TS]

  report that great christy is retiring from Apple yet so kudos to you for this [TS]

  group I congratulate you on Twitter I hadn't even heard that apparently it [TS]

  happened a couple weeks prior to be familiar with this timeline as I did a [TS]

  lot of research I didn't really write much about this afterward but I've done [TS]

  a surprising them [TS]

  out of work on this all come out here on the show I'm in a couple weeks before [TS]

  reporting make sense I mean I was trying to go I got a text from a very reliable [TS]

  source who is provided but I'll intro for three years that christie Lee was [TS]

  out and the source told me that you know he's leaving the joining of stuff and [TS]

  he's leaving by the end of the year would be around the developer's [TS]

  conference in June and so the couple weeks to make sense but I don't just run [TS]

  after the reliable source told me I took me a few days to confirm it with other [TS]

  people and i dont really read anything by single source so yeah yeah what I [TS]

  heard was that and I don't think it was company-wide wasn't like you know every [TS]

  single Apple employee but it was at least announced entirely within the [TS]

  graphic graphic design user interface design group that you know that he be [TS]

  retiring through three weeks or so at least three weeks before your report [TS]

  came out ok everybody within apple who worked under in their new knew about it [TS]

  and that to me it shows just how does a ship Apple runs that it took three weeks [TS]

  for anybody to get the news that he that he was retiring yeah apparently it was [TS]

  open news in this is what I've heard from a few friends I did not go I didn't [TS]

  make it out to Macworld Expo this year but apparently it was sort of an open [TS]

  secret there among you know people who work at Apple and people who follow in [TS]

  the writer types who follow it that that he announced his retirement but it was [TS]

  always under the you know every discussion about it was off the record [TS]

  so there wasn't there wasn't anybody knew about it and could have written it [TS]

  but nobody had it right I guess that's understandable I mean if you haven't [TS]

  told me the off the record part I mean I guess my response would be if you're a [TS]

  writer and you heard that you should have posted it but no it wasn't yeah I [TS]

  don't think anybody had and just sat on but I have to say the more I dug into [TS]

  this I got a surprising amount of pushback from its and foreign sources [TS]

  that the friction with Jony ive angle is in order to avoid them [TS]

  quote bullshit now it's not to say it again I don't want to fight with them [TS]

  because I don't know I have not I've never met Greg Christie I didn't speak [TS]

  to him he's not you know I don't have any first-hand information I mean I [TS]

  don't even know what the guy looks like can't find a picture of my Google [TS]

  however seen him speak at WWDC but it's very not unlike the world's worst like [TS]

  witness like he's a white guy you know someone is probably late forties yeah I [TS]

  mean I from the Samsung true but I have to CNN and I think you know they're [TS]

  they're they're definitely got a result and there's you know you can't pin it [TS]

  but you know there after your report your report came out and and I think the [TS]

  next day there was a report in the Wall Street Journal ok quote from Apple PR [TS]

  and the quote from Apple PR did definitely downplayed or denied I don't [TS]

  know but but went against the grain that there was any sort of personal [TS]

  personality conflict between him and Jony ive [TS]

  quote correctly something about like after twenty years great Chris the is [TS]

  retiring and he worked closely with Johnny or whatever number of years so [TS]

  yeah I guess I agree its border line it's not really a denial or no [TS]

  confirmation but you know Apple PR has has an agenda they're not going to come [TS]

  out and say that there was friction you know well but it would depend almost [TS]

  certainly made no effort whatsoever to downplay the friction with Scott [TS]

  Forstall this is true this is true in fact I would say that the press release [TS]

  today announced twin forestall you know [TS]

  they called it a resignation but the you know the whole thing and the headline [TS]

  about increased credit collaboration yeah you know almost it's not explicitly [TS]

  but implicitly is saying that collaboration was you know wasn't [TS]

  working while forestall was there so I would put a little you know but there's [TS]

  clearly though it's in Apple's interests to not have johnnie I've received as a [TS]

  market of alien wheeler and dealer that goes against the public persona that he [TS]

  has and it doesn't serve Johnny Ives interests and necessary for exact this [TS]

  is you know right now for this discussion whether it's true or not sure [TS]

  whatever degree it is it's not in Apple's interests to have johnnie i've [TS]

  perceived that way so if it is true if he is this machiavellian character has [TS]

  that slant to it and is sort of creating a lot of friction in the user as he [TS]

  takes over more authority in the user interface design and is pushing people [TS]

  out and if that's a said that if it were true that he effectively pushed Christie [TS]

  out which never said right right that's true very true if you know and I'll [TS]

  emphasize that but I think some people came away with from here report with [TS]

  that perception but if it is true it would be in Apple's interests are at [TS]

  least Apple PR's interest to downplay that at least try to downplay it or get [TS]

  people to walk it back [TS]

  sure if it weren't true it would also be in their interests are so the fact that [TS]

  Apple's PR you know either way whether it's the true or not or whatever shade [TS]

  of gray it is right because the truth is almost certainly somewhere in the middle [TS]

  but wherever it is on the shade of gray really really like great really dark [TS]

  grey Apple PR would probably take the exact same response share in the quote [TS]

  that they gave to the wall street journal probably would have been the [TS]

  same so it is what's the word dispositive it doesn't prove anything [TS]

  yeah I mean a couple points they're going back to early discussion terms of [TS]

  the broken telephone I mean [TS]

  orkut say one thing and another site picks up and says I know is that I fired [TS]

  Greg Christie so that's one point another point is I mean Apple [TS]

  two hundred billion dollars cash in the bank [TS]

  company the iPad iPhone or all these products you mean you don't push out [TS]

  these devices and have a company as large as everyone holding hands and you [TS]

  know the ending around in circles and then there's going to be friction to get [TS]

  these products out the door and you know it's Steve Jobs even some self johnny [TS]

  has more authority than anyone else at Apple this is in knots and cook until [TS]

  sheler Scott Forstall back then but you know johnny is spiritual partner so I [TS]

  don't think it's too much to say or assume not saying I assume anything to [TS]

  stop me and say industry serving as an energy water here that you know Johnny [TS]

  if you want something that he gets in town I mean the story goes in terms of [TS]

  the friction that as they were working on iOS 7 or when johnnie decided that I [TS]

  was 7 gonna be overhauled with his design aesthetic that you know Greg [TS]

  Christie was on board [TS]

  wanting to do this with him and you know within federal is group but over time [TS]

  joining really you know overstepped the bounds they're reaching into the user [TS]

  interface team really circumventing christie's control and you know speaking [TS]

  to christie's designers and engineers and just getting things done [TS]

  Christie's approval kind of just like now stepping on his toes a bit and I [TS]

  guess with 10 points 10 around the corner with this new design and all [TS]

  future of iOS I guess Johnny and Christy and other executives Apple made the [TS]

  decision that it was time to just move all design [TS]

  Jony ive noticed hardware not joining providing influence leadership and [TS]

  guidance the software but literally putting software under his belt as well [TS]

  the way I've heard it and this is from multiple sources and I think you know I [TS]

  think it's that's an interesting I think you combine these two takes and the [TS]

  truth is probably somewhere in the middle [TS]

  but what I've heard and all of this came to light this is not all of it but most [TS]

  of it is stuff that I heard after your report and none of it [TS]

  none of this is from Apple PR this is from other people actually in you know [TS]

  either in formerly in or somehow you know as they say [TS]

  familiar with the matter but with the user interface design group which used [TS]

  to be you know for different groups I think there was the there's like it was [TS]

  a lot more scattered before the Johnny I was gonna take over software where there [TS]

  was like the iLife user interface group quite sure if I western Pakistan were [TS]

  two different groups but the ones that were formerly more under forestall that [TS]

  like forestall wasn't really in charge of like the iLife apps like iPhoto and [TS]

  iMovie in those those are separate people familiar with those things to say [TS]

  and who were definitely there's no doubt in my mind speaking not on behalf of [TS]

  prompted by PR sure in fact the opposite wherein I don't know that will be our [TS]

  would disagree with the word they said but I think you know they found out [TS]

  about it they could be in trouble and there's a certain contingent of people [TS]

  out there who doesn't matter what I say that they think Apple PR is all-knowing [TS]

  and all-powerful and that they see these conspiracies in the matter what if if I [TS]

  say it's you know ground level employees they're they're gonna say well it might [TS]

  be ground level employees but somebody from Apple PR came in said here tell [TS]

  Gruber this that's not the case it really is not that that is not how Apple [TS]

  PR works about PR wants to say something they just they say they're not you know [TS]

  duplicitous like that but the just the Craig Christy story that I have heard [TS]

  the way I've heard it is it really wasn't friction I don't think I think [TS]

  there's certainly a case we made that stylistically Christie may not have been [TS]

  on board [TS]

  with everything related to the iOS 7 look and feel but he was not opposed to [TS]

  it wasn't like he was pushed you know you know you know how there's like a lot [TS]

  of people out there who really just don't like I was seven years and I think [TS]

  a lot of them read this and they see christy is seen at their way and that [TS]

  Christie was like a seven-hitter and that is absolutely not true yeah I don't [TS]

  disagree I mean the whole WWDC session talking about it so profoundly in with [TS]

  such knowledge that you know you can really tell that it was you know he was [TS]

  a big part of it so you know that the hierarchy always went where christie's [TS]

  group was in the engineering group and in the old days they rendered bertrand [TS]

  and eventually they were effectively under foresaw that there was this there [TS]

  was there was never much of a chain of command above grade Christie's head at [TS]

  least a million in about eighteen years ago he started but in the final essay in [TS]

  the eye in the iPhone Hira you know Christie originally reported to [TS]

  forestall and forestall of course only reported to Steve Jobs and even when [TS]

  steve Jobs was dead the only person really above Christie was forceful [TS]

  at least for iOS stuff and so when they announced that shake-up 14 stall was out [TS]

  and Johnny I was taking over they didn't really change the org chart and yes Greg [TS]

  Christie officially reported to and I guess he still does I'm not quite sure [TS]

  when that change is gonna take but until recently reported officially to Federico [TS]

  because Federici took over as head of engineering but it is never been the [TS]

  case that they really reported to federal because it's really you know [TS]

  Federici did you know i think is very popular and he's deemed as being very [TS]

  successful so far but there is this a complete separation now between design [TS]

  and engineering where Federici is not a forestall type person at all were forced [TS]

  all [TS]

  if anything was more concerned with the design and engineering even though he [TS]

  came up you know as the next probe next step program rain certainly understood [TS]

  the engineering that the org chart be damned [TS]

  ever since as soon as forestall was out and they're johnnie I was named in [TS]

  charge of software Greg Christie had been reporting directly to johnnie I've [TS]

  the whole time and that there was no there's really no different [TS]

  the only difference with what's been announced recently is making official on [TS]

  the internal org chart what had been the defacto flow of authority ever since [TS]

  that announcement was made and what I've heard is that again this is like 3rd him [TS]

  but I believe it I really do that that after your report and that Apple had to [TS]

  go to the journal and stuff like that and and issued this thing that Christie [TS]

  was deadly slightly distressed by the whole thing as he saw it as so outside [TS]

  the truth that he really really is the case and the sounds isn't quite right [TS]

  but that he's really just a guy has been there for 20 years and is tired and he's [TS]

  made a lot of money and just wants to take some time to enjoy it you know like [TS]

  a up for all the people out there who ever thought hey if I ever made like [TS]

  couple million bucks and I was you know a lot of million bucks and I was you [TS]

  know I'm not gonna wait Tamil do enjoy it when I think that's more or less work [TS]

  great christy is but yet he's leaving and it seems like there's you know [TS]

  there's this bad taste [TS]

  now in the mouth that the story is he's leaving because he disagreed with Johnny [TS]

  and it's not the case at all [TS]

  yeah I mean I understand that perspective you know i i agree with you [TS]

  i mean it's probably in the gray area there I mean I don't think I report says [TS]

  that you know I pushed out Christie I just think it just stated facts and if [TS]

  people read it a certain way they read it a certain way but I don't mean to [TS]

  come off as you know Johnny pushed out Christie I mean there is unclear stories [TS]

  about executive shake-ups in Apple recent years a member Bloomberg had a [TS]

  headline the end of 2012 like you know any Q fires Williamson who ran maps I [TS]

  mean I don't come out there and I fire is Christy over his eye differences [TS]

  right now it is you know but it's the way that people like you said like that [TS]

  what would you say if it's broken telephone yeah the book until the [TS]

  telephone game where you know by the second or third telling it becomes a [TS]

  story of conflict and it's really not the case at all any examples I heard [TS]

  cited too in terms of like that that there's almost proof that Christie is [TS]

  going out on his own terms and on very good terms is that it was just a few [TS]

  weeks ago where Apple did something very very unusual which was it was it was [TS]

  like the PR run-up to the Samsung Apple trial retrial where they gave NPR and I [TS]

  think the wall street journal access to Christie and talk and let him talk and [TS]

  show the little lab where where they'd end up the first version of the iPhone [TS]

  interface shows like how they use I thought was pretty cool the way that [TS]

  they used like so this was a 2006 while they were working on this the used like [TS]

  a three or four or five-year-old G-three powerbook to power it so that they'd [TS]

  have a device you know that that they couldn't she have a CPU that was going [TS]

  to be a lot faster than what the iPhone would actually be able to have right [TS]

  really fascinating stuff it's always interesting in retrospect to see you [TS]

  know looking back about how certain things came to be but that was actually [TS]

  after like so when Apple you know clearly let Greg Christie and this is [TS]

  how crazy some people are is that I had a couple people write to me at during [TS]

  fire bombs hit you think that maybe they pushed Christie out because he talked to [TS]

  the wall street journal about the thing that you know that he broke the secret [TS]

  code of how they made the iPhone has like no no no you know that's that is a [TS]

  total you know that's a that's an exclusive that was authorized by side [TS]

  something that great Christie went nuts on his right hand note your point about [TS]

  that this Wall Street Journal interview in the simpson trial stuff this was just [TS]

  in the last couple weeks [TS]

  you don't find it interesting that there was no identification by Christy at the [TS]

  trial or any of those stories that you know he's not in charge anymore I mean I [TS]

  look back at the wall street journal story clearly says that Christie still [TS]

  in charge of human interface design Apple after you know we're going there [TS]

  for a number of years so you think they would have identified that baby and I'm [TS]

  not quite sure I don't think I followed what are you saying so you would have [TS]

  followed like you know Greg Christie identified himself as you know had a [TS]

  human interface design just a couple weeks ago wall street journal and so I [TS]

  just got an interesting that you never noted that he's leaving no but he did [TS]

  but everybody at Apple already knew that he was the interview i mean obviously it [TS]

  was you know as the company that the company's interest in those stories was [TS]

  disorder emphasize look at the amazing work we have to do to create we had to [TS]

  do to create the original iPhone and it's all in the context of you know [TS]

  getting the company's side of this fight and Samsung out in the public [TS]

  but a corollary to that like a secondary thing was that great christy is this [TS]

  here's the thing is he's a very popular guy pushes a really really well-liked [TS]

  person within Apple really seems like the type of person gets along with a lot [TS]

  of people is has had a very like you said you can't find pictures you can try [TS]

  to find photos of them it's very hard to find photos I'm you had a very low [TS]

  profile but he's been hugely influential you know spent a lot of time working [TS]

  directly with Steve Jobs on whatever you know pet projects of you know whatever [TS]

  jobs you know his pants on fire for you know interface was in a lot of people [TS]

  within apple who saw min knew that you know it's not that well known that is is [TS]

  his work is far you know outweighs his renowned were really happy to set that [TS]

  up forum and have this thing where he got a lot more public credit than he's [TS]

  ever gotten before but and but now they're all a little lake they think [TS]

  that you know now the follow-up that it that being played as conflict with [TS]

  Johnny I and again like you said you didn't use the word conflict but they [TS]

  clearly though there's a perception out there now [TS]

  sure in some of the second and third and reporting that that stinks and now he's [TS]

  upset about i mean even Wall Street Journal heard from Aaron sources about [TS]

  how there was disagreement and design direction between Christie and I so it's [TS]

  not like I'm the only person saying that hey there yeah yeah you know I've got [TS]

  this I got a loose microphone USB cord on my microphone and it just pulled out [TS]

  what it what you saying that the wall street journal had something about the [TS]

  conflict over design yeah there was a line am a story that you mentioned [TS]

  seeing that going to you know a person familiar with the matter [TS]

  great Chris team joining I dunno we see eye to eye or they had disagreements [TS]

  over right direction so yeah and I think that that's really pretty much how all [TS]

  design work Sat [TS]

  do you think they say here's a guy who spent most of his 18 years effectively [TS]

  reporting to Steve Jobs charade because Christie worked on the highest profile [TS]

  design stuff because the top of the heap and you know it's not like every single [TS]

  pixel of every thing goes to enter Steve Jobs but it was what we know what is [TS]

  Steve care about now and you know bad word you know better call Christine do [TS]

  you really think you know does anybody think that there weren't disagree Vince [TS]

  colors are font sizes are any detail working with Steve you know that's just [TS]

  the way it is I mean Apple a lot of people who are really just in love with [TS]

  the company they seemed to ignore just completely disregard the fact that needs [TS]

  to happen there needs to be done for these products to be released I mean the [TS]

  classic story steve Jobs pinning forestall against Tony Fadell [TS]

  each other who can make the better so that she gets that I mean you think for [TS]

  stalls whatever come up with something said so innovative that literally change [TS]

  the entire technology world and so many other industries if they weren't [TS]

  competing against something I mean if you don't have your head against the [TS]

  wall [TS]

  you're not going to get much done yeah I totally agree with that and I think that [TS]

  you know I saw in light of all this stuff we get a lot of croats you broke [TS]

  that Christie's leaving but they got a lot of Solace tough on Twitter from [TS]

  readers who are saying that they're worried about the whole direction of [TS]

  Apple software under johnnie I have you know this doesn't sound good I think [TS]

  that what you would worry me as if I heard stories that there were no [TS]

  arguments about that stuff because if if nobody's arguing then nobody's really [TS]

  trying to push it forward that's fair right I mean I don't think those [TS]

  comments make much that in mind the Christmas story I mean if people don't [TS]

  like having designed other concern about this content should have came ten nine [TS]

  months ago already and I am sure there there were lots of comments and abroad [TS]

  hey I was seven back then [TS]

  so I mean this is what johnnie live once the the softer look like so there's [TS]

  nothing in particular I mean maybe people are you are thinking five ten [TS]

  years down the road but you know right now ten-point ends in 0 click I was 17 I [TS]

  would say I was not look like I was so thinking anything in the day and I think [TS]

  it's joining I've had even bigger ideas are one of the South look completely [TS]

  different way that I was seven books that's when I was seven you know only [TS]

  get one shot to revamp the whole look and in terms of Christy going out as to [TS]

  what I've heard is you know there's no date set but I've heard that he's [TS]

  probably going to stay I'm not not just their WBC but probably more towards the [TS]

  end of the year [TS]

  like the actual calendar year it's very possible I mean I heard specifically [TS]

  around a BWC but I could be wrong about that well we'll see I get why so who [TS]

  knows cuz you know Apple so god damn secret of them in the guy you know [TS]

  little birdie will tell you right now we have we'll see I just too though that [TS]

  this is another one of those cases were Apple being so secretive I feel like you [TS]

  can't be any other way because either your secretive company or not a [TS]

  secretive company you can't be it's like being pregnant you can't be you know [TS]

  kind of pregnant right but it hurts them I think in terms of the way that it [TS]

  would most companies when somebody of great christie's internal stature [TS]

  announces his retirement not today would make a big big press release out of it [TS]

  and expect national news but they would have announced it somehow you know that [TS]

  it's it's unusual for someone is influential vice president level 22 be [TS]

  leaving on his own terms with no internal real unpleasantness as the guys [TS]

  had a great career done great things in his announcing it and you know nobody [TS]

  inside the company says anything to anybody outside the company right and [TS]

  then they lose the ability to control the narrative on that shirt into that [TS]

  I'd say that they had a absolutely massive opportunity to get that [TS]

  information out there in the wall street journal in the simpson trial with a NPR [TS]

  NPR was no voice interview [TS]

  22 yeah they could have gotten that information out there if they wanted to [TS]

  they could have made it a national [TS]

  I want to wonder why they didn't why they didn't say that I don't know if [TS]

  there's something you know that they thought maybe it would lessen the weight [TS]

  of his testimony if it seemed as though he had one foot out the door [TS]

  you know one foot on his upcoming Yahoo arteries gonna do right now I mean I'm [TS]

  not sure if that was part of it or not and you know who knows it could be one [TS]

  of those things where maybe they were like 51% one-way 49% the other leg kinda [TS]

  had it written two ways and then at the last minute that's just not saying about [TS]

  it and then as soon as you know it the news broke that he was leaving and they [TS]

  didn't play the way they thought it should have played like god damn it we [TS]

  should have you know we should yeah I mean I wonder if christy is who you know [TS]

  everyone is making me out to be which I don't know such a you know amazing [TS]

  figure inside the company you know the 51% probably should have lead the other [TS]

  way you know if anything what I've heard is that he's got along better with [TS]

  johnnie than you know [TS]

  yeah I think so probably not to spread and I think it's mostly johnny's [TS]

  personality you know and again it's one of those things where who knows what [TS]

  they disagreed with in terms of hey what what color should this button be when [TS]

  you tap on it that's not that's the sort of thing where they could argue you know [TS]

  all week long and not come to an agreement and eventually Johnny might [TS]

  have to say you know what we're going to do it my way and there's no hard [TS]

  feelings that's just that's just working at Apple and doing design but that they [TS]

  actually got along swimmingly and consider themselves you know good [TS]

  friends right [TS]

  me take a final break karen thank thank our last sponsor and then we'll get back [TS]

  and we talked about last couple other specific upcoming [TS]

  rumors are good friends at Backblaze you guys in the back place their longtime [TS]

  sponsors of the show [TS]

  unlimited on throttled back up for your Mac for $5 a month for Mac and it backs [TS]

  up everything backs up your whole drive they have over collectively 100 [TS]

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  users of back place five billion files have been restored [TS]

  they have an iOS app lets you access and sharing of your files from your iPhone [TS]

  or iPad so you back up your home back to back plays account so nice and secure [TS]

  you're out and about you have your iPhone you can just use the iPhone app [TS]

  to access any files that in your back place that backed up from your Mac to [TS]

  back place always meant I always mention this founded by Acts Apple engineers so [TS]

  their code you know it's good it runs native on your Mac supports Mavericks [TS]

  completely is not one of these are some janky code that is written by people [TS]

  from a Windows background or something like that [TS]

  perfect real nice quiet you don't even know it running in the background no [TS]

  add-ons no gimmicks no upsell it really is just $5 per month per computer for [TS]

  unlimited untroubled backup [TS]

  I've been talking about this for months I don't know how many of you out there [TS]

  who still haven't tried it everybody I know tries back play sticks with it it's [TS]

  just amazing you sleep better at night knowing that you have backups off-site [TS]

  away from your computer not just a cloned hard disk sitting right next to [TS]

  your computer ready to be you know destroyed by a fire water link above the [TS]

  desk or something like that really great stuff here you go to find out Backblaze [TS]

  dot com slash daring fireball Backblaze dot com slash during fireball go try it [TS]

  if you haven't tried to your nuts [TS]

  so Mac OS 10.2 10 which i think is what they're gonna call it a number it i've [TS]

  heard the same thing I invited you know it's a done deal yet already April so [TS]

  there must have been hard at work at it but I have not seen it I can honestly [TS]

  say that having seen it nobody shown me but in a nutshell that it's going to [TS]

  look like Iowa 7 yeah yeah that's exactly the same quote unquote dramatic [TS]

  or significant so gonna be the perhaps the biggest new feature ten-point [TS]

  technically it shear off to the white internally I have no idea what the [TS]

  California spot will be but I have to gather and I don't know their names like [TS]

  that are probably the best and tightest held secret said Apple because I don't i [TS]

  think that there's no reason for those you know you know like you know like [TS]

  them you know you're talking about like the last one is Mavericks said they're [TS]

  all gonna be named after places in California going forward [TS]

  there's no reason for that sort of thing to go outside of very very tight circle [TS]

  you know probably like shoulder and and Jony ive you know that that level [TS]

  because it did you know they can brand that all the last-minute sure my guess [TS]

  this is just a guess I'm gonna go with yosemite just because just because it's [TS]

  gonna be a big change because what looks big is big branding lies right even if [TS]

  you know like clearly the biggest upgrade versions of Mac OS 10 were like [TS]

  the shift from PowerPC and Intel because everything had to be recompiled and all [TS]

  sorts of technical stuff had to change [TS]

  Snow Leopard was a big change they added all this low level stuff behind the [TS]

  scenes like Grand Central Dispatch and really really big stuff like at a nerdy [TS]

  computer science study how the operating system level works and famously they [TS]

  even bragged about it you know marketing light not many new features were really [TS]

  working on [TS]

  you know the behind the scenes stuff so they gave it a name you know the [TS]

  previous version was leopard they said we're gonna call it snow leopard because [TS]

  it's leopard with you know not many new features this because it looks new I [TS]

  think they're gonna give it a big push marketing lies as being even F [TS]

  technically it's actually not that different it's really just a new look [TS]

  sure yosemite is my guess because I don't know what else to me it's the [TS]

  biggest such a great name to I totally agree terms of like you're somebody [TS]

  being big 12 know it and it's pretty dramatic and that goes well with [TS]

  redesigned gonna be [TS]

  Southern California guy so I'm hoping for something like you or Malibu just [TS]

  like a beach that represents like you know you have in your head is like a [TS]

  sunset like a new beginning I could see malibu the only thing is I can see them [TS]

  going back to a beach after Mavericks during a way through I don't know but [TS]

  Anna and then you know in the whole telephone game I'm sure somebody's gonna [TS]

  listen to this episode and they're gonna say John Gruber says that the new [TS]

  version of Mac OS 10 will be called yosemite oh for sure like without a [TS]

  doubt I'm telling you those of you who ever you are out there who's already the [TS]

  headline into your front and I'm totally guessing nobody I don't [TS]

  know anybody who would tell me anything like that [TS]

  like that stuff like that isn't in the seeds that you know like you said that's [TS]

  within the internal code names are named after like wine yeah I'm curious I'm [TS]

  really curious how they're going to deal with drop shadows and I know it seems [TS]

  like a weird thing to get hung up on talk about Apple though I mean correct [TS]

  but so I the iOS 7 look gets rid of almost all shadows I think to the point [TS]

  where some of things look bad like I always say pop over is on iPad and iOS 7 [TS]

  to meet look too did they just look unfinished like an unfinished design [TS]

  because there they are over there popped over the content but with no shadow it [TS]

  just looks like this weird [TS]

  white round rectangle that she's drawn over your content right kind of like [TS]

  mail in portrait mode of their kind of view but that's not the intention of the [TS]

  intention is going over the content right back in the match is designed to [TS]

  have multiple windows open and wants exactly where I'm going right so if [TS]

  there's no dropped shots behind these windows it's going to be it's gonna be a [TS]

  bus so I think it's going to be is gonna be a decrease their but maybe not nearly [TS]

  as dramatic as I was seven but clearly aesthetic is going to be there and you [TS]

  know basically just what I heard you know new icon set you know how the [TS]

  corners on the windows are slightly rounded they're getting rid of that [TS]

  savings more squared off in and find out I think they're going to decrease like [TS]

  the sheen of metal cross the OS quite a bit more white space will probably see [TS]

  some new translucency these kind of where the dog is and notifications that [TS]

  are ya it's it's a [TS]

  I'm really curious to see how it goes cuz you know I guess it in a nutshell [TS]

  everybody seems to agree that in a nutshell it's the iOS 7 lock sure but [TS]

  there's so much about the Iowa seven-month did to me doesn't work with [TS]

  layered Windows sure and the lack of shadows and the transparency thing is [TS]

  another thing where you really like wind and you know Windows Microsoft really [TS]

  found this out with Vista or was it was Vista where they went overboard with the [TS]

  transparency yeah but it really when you have overlapping windows the [TS]

  transparency becomes an unreadable mess if it's too transparent [TS]

  like it works on iOS 7 I think because you never have more than one thing's [TS]

  tacked on a time so like when you bring up one transparent thing like by sliding [TS]

  up from the bottom to get the website called activity view of what's what's [TS]

  the thing is laid upon the bottom [TS]

  yeah control control so it works because it's only over one thing whereas that [TS]

  sort of you know frosted glass look you can't just have a bunch of windows with [TS]

  that [TS]

  over each other right read anything so do it and I'm really curious how they're [TS]

  going to handle shadows because I was seven doesn't really have any and the [TS]

  current Mac OS 10 look and I think this is one of those things that hasn't [TS]

  really changed all the way back to Mac OS 10.2 0 back in like 2001 is that the [TS]

  shadows size has always bothered me it's just way too big it looks like each [TS]

  window is like an inch above the other one even though there's no actual [TS]

  parallax of you know Windows shrinking behind and stuff like that right I can [TS]

  always notice that you take a screenshot on OS cannot have a window and you just [TS]

  open up I can quickly whatever you can see that huge huge shadow it's right [TS]

  it's humongous [TS]

  right and it doesn't make any sense to me because it seems as though because [TS]

  Windows nothing gets smaller so it seems like it's their very thin like [TS]

  semantically they're very thin layers on top of each other very close to each [TS]

  other but yet there's the shadows that make it look as though they're all an [TS]

  inch apart and yet there's no there's no 3d parallax to it right i mean I guess [TS]

  we're moving shadows would be more detrimental the Mac where lots of people [TS]

  still use it with multiple windows open simultaneously but you know when I S [TS]

  you know that I guess I must have missed the same way shadows wouldn't be as [TS]

  important they're also been a lot of talk about you know what it desktop [TS]

  version of 2007 as I would look like a lot of people playing to that iCloud our [TS]

  car on the last year I don't think that's the right way to look at it I [TS]

  think I dot com is basically a web based replication of the iPad out and that's [TS]

  always what it's been even back to the first version of high [TS]

  the leather stitched notes out calendar app reminders etc and now it just looks [TS]

  like iPad apps yeah and the other thing too is that they don't have to deal with [TS]

  layering right because it's one thing at a time filling your browser window and I [TS]

  saw I [TS]

  I don't think that's a good way to look either and that timing doesn't work out [TS]

  either because I apps have had that look for many months now they [TS]

  change that pretty much shortly after I was 17 right whereas thats the timeline [TS]

  where I feel like they were really hammering away on the fundamentals of [TS]

  what this new look for the Mac is gonna look like they came out way too early [TS]

  they did you know the Mac stuff wasn't anywhere close to being done totally [TS]

  agree yeah and from what I've heard like the design of 10.8 is really interested [TS]

  a lot the last few months so like you said it would make sense to look like [TS]

  the outcome seemed they did I alongside seventh and last September and [TS]

  now nearly a year later it's not going to look the same that would make sense [TS]

  know this so many iterations I mean that's you know if there's any one word [TS]

  that describes the Apple design process its iterations for sure there's a [TS]

  question about some of the your style that many maybe it's not from you it's [TS]

  actually sorta 9 to 5 Mac house style and it's very very common it's it's more [TS]

  or less I think almost the standard for the industry which is that and I think [TS]

  correct me if I'm wrong but when you when you wrote about Mac OS 10.2 10 [TS]

  having this iowa 7 look and feel you included with the story a mock up and [TS]

  not one that you commission but like here's here's some guy in the internets [TS]

  idea of what an Iowa 7 version of Mac OS 10 would look like [TS]

  sure and another example is a new but these other sites to ours does it [TS]

  everybody does it was somebody says rumor comes out that the new iPhone is [TS]

  going to have added edge glass no bezel on the side and then there will be a [TS]

  picture of a mock-up of an iPhone with edge-to-edge glass but it's not a mock [TS]

  ups from the source it's just we went out we had to have we had to have an [TS]

  illustration for this story so we went out and found one that sort of fits [TS]

  right that always bothers me as a reader [TS]

  and my guess is sort of armchair and journalism critic because to me it's [TS]

  like you have a good story and it's an interesting source but then you've [TS]

  illustrated it was something that's just pulled out of the air yeah I mean in [TS]

  terms of that 10.2 example if you're into that roundup I did template ISA [TS]

  WWDC that was my decision to put that up there a little early I probably could [TS]

  have done a better job saying that that was a mockup but I do think illustration [TS]

  is extremely important and also to be extremely honest if I had an exact idea [TS]

  of what it would look like I would have had my own market made that would be you [TS]

  know pretty close to the real thing because I have been doing that right [TS]

  first several years when I know exactly how something's gonna look I'm going to [TS]

  take the time to get a great mark up to 10 mean I did this with Retina MacBook [TS]

  Pro in 2012 all the rest of the last couple of years I think you did it with [TS]

  some icons yes we also did that with the Iowa 7 icons last year before and they [TS]

  came out pretty good in that police sketch style way rate like it please get [TS]

  says hey here's the guy who robbed the 7 11 and catch him and you looking like [TS]

  hey that's actually a pretty good sketch I would say that those icons EU [TS]

  Commission were good in that sense right [TS]

  with those icons that was the night before WWDC if we got those the design [TS]

  of the icons couple weeks before WWDC we would have had stellar mark-ups that [TS]

  would look exactly like the icons on the home screen that's what I did to me it [TS]

  it because you do that you know if you know and you can commission a mock-up [TS]

  based on what you know what you've seen or what like a source's scene [TS]

  then when you do this like where you'll just say well I don't have that but [TS]

  here's the here's some other guys you know guess as to what it could look like [TS]

  to me it takes away from when you actually have it I know because I closed [TS]

  circles back to life what we're talking about the very beginning I read your [TS]

  stuff very very closely and I know the exact words that you use but most people [TS]

  don't sure right you include that screenshot with your story in most [TS]

  people are going to who see it are going to think that supposed to be what it [TS]

  looks like that's a good point because that particular story was a mix of IOSH [TS]

  stuff and some points and all the Iowa State stuff those mockups and images up [TS]

  there that's what the real thing looks like a lot of the bottom I put totally [TS]

  bogus in the july-september look like there wasn't a great call my part but [TS]

  even here in my Mac OS on a Mac OS iOS I mean the big features going to be the [TS]

  health book which is basically passbook rear health it's gonna create lots of [TS]

  data like blood sugar calories burned their finish statistics but for most [TS]

  people it's not going to have the blood sugar is not going to have my blood [TS]

  sugar because it's not gonna be able to read my book trigger the phone it's [TS]

  gonna work with i mean the big question here is is it gonna work with some Apple [TS]

  hardware at first will it be like iTunes coming before the iPod will just work a [TS]

  good analogy yeah I mean I think the most likely scenario for the very [TS]

  imminent future would be looking up to the brother of Health iPhone connected [TS]

  accessories that Apple's hyping up for years you know like I remember when they [TS]

  announced the iPhone OS three way back in 2009 they have that demo of the I [TS]

  don't think it was a glucose blood sugar checker on stage and I was a huge deal [TS]

  and now there's wifi based scales blood pressure checkers all sorts of stuff but [TS]

  all matters that they could you know look up in a campaign in a similar place [TS]

  yeah I know I kind of see it and then again there may be a you know I don't [TS]

  wanna go on too much longer but we can talk about the the wearable rumors and [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  and so clearly there's an awful lot of rumors that Apple is going to come out [TS]

  with some devices that are you know some sort of fitness health monitoring type [TS]

  stuff and they've made hiring they've hired people with backgrounds in that [TS]

  sort of thing so it's certainly wouldn't at this point shock anybody if Apple [TS]

  came out with a peripheral that took some of these measurements and then you [TS]

  know saying to buy a Bluetooth to your iPhone and iPad with health book right [TS]

  there but I think a lot of this stuff though is going to be left to third [TS]

  parties and you know you know like for example like blood sugar so if you have [TS]

  you know if you have diabetes [TS]

  that's a huge deal right but they're going to leave that to medical companies [TS]

  and then let you know more or less what the App Store is to axe and yet Apple [TS]

  does some apps and they have new apps you know and and you know obviously they [TS]

  care about things like email and the web encounter but they don't worry about [TS]

  having every little thing that they're happy to let thousands and thousands of [TS]

  developers fill in all those gaps and I feel like it'll be the same way with the [TS]

  medical devices software gamble gave it to every iPhone user the opportunity to [TS]

  hook up their accessories to that they'll have beautifully presented [TS]

  graphs all sorts of data comparison features so I think you know Apple [TS]

  doesn't need to sell ivory diabetic a blood sugar monitoring device it's more [TS]

  than enough for Apple if it becomes well-known hey if you have diabetes you [TS]

  really want to get an iPhone because I do boom boom boom this is fantastic and [TS]

  even the design of the application the name health book The the icon and all [TS]

  screams pass health I mean it's literally a duplicate of past but with [TS]

  health healthy so they get pretty clear that it's going to be an aggregator at [TS]

  least at first you had screenshots of the actual app yes do you wonder whether [TS]

  that is like us stand in for pre-release does it look the one thing that struck [TS]

  me about it is that looked so much like passbook it almost looked confusingly [TS]

  like passbook like you do you know more similar than I would think the two apps [TS]

  would look as two different [TS]

  had the exact opposite opinion I thought it was extremely polished compared to [TS]

  the other stuff regarding iOS either I see it so it seems more policy other [TS]

  parts the operating system like they've clearly been working on it for a long [TS]

  time of course the design can and probably will change a bit but I know [TS]

  that's the design that's been used and tested highways safer for several months [TS]

  now so but it's like the real you your your shirt again not that it's finally [TS]

  everything gets tripped up until the horse but but that at the time that you [TS]

  had the screenshot that was what the app was intended to look like at this moment [TS]

  yes it's not like hey we will end up this thing that looks like passbook [TS]

  while we show it to our partners because we don't want them to see the real thing [TS]

  no I do I didn't sit on that it was pretty it pretty immediate like to hear [TS]

  anything else I am NOT her I've heard much more about the visual changes to [TS]

  Mac OS 10 then I O Si O Si ya heard about the stuff besides the health book [TS]

  improve maps out polished up data that our views of like where streets are and [TS]

  of course the transit mode which I have heard they're having a hard time with [TS]

  terms of sorting the data they don't want a repeat of the data aggregation [TS]

  problems from iOS 6 has launched so we'll see if transit transit is [TS]

  extremely hard because it's none of it is land and it's almost like a heads off [TS]

  to Google for getting it as well as they do because none of it is regularize [TS]

  there's no standard for how a municipal transit authority should put the transit [TS]

  info on the web it's just it's almost like back to the days before RSS feeds [TS]

  were people had the screen scrape HTML and parse the HTML on every site HTML is [TS]

  different so if you more or less had to like special case every single city or [TS]

  web site and the web scraping days but for transit now you pretty much have to [TS]

  do each every single transit authority you pretty much have to do individually [TS]

  because everybody reports the data different [TS]

  right and it's not like out what went out and just created or you know to call [TS]

  the state of herself this is a direct blow but it seems on the surface to be [TS]

  just similar to what they did before [TS]

  acquired a budget companies and data sources and they're mixing it up [TS]

  altogether and I think that at this point calling the guy gets disaster [TS]

  iPhone iOS 6 maps onto 2012 is the end rather pull the feature another testing [TS]

  it now the long something that's not ready to go especially in the back so I [TS]

  also think I think look and feel wise I think this is sort of that johnnie IV [TS]

  employees worry I think johnnie I've in all aspects sort of goes for a sort of [TS]

  more timeless look like away from trendiness and even know it sounds [TS]

  ridiculous because flat design became such a lofty used term in the last 18 [TS]

  months or so dirty right but I don't think it is I think he sees it as as a [TS]

  more timeless style and maybe it went to fly so I think I think maybe the dial [TS]

  back in a little bit more texture I hope but just a little just a touch but I [TS]

  haven't heard anything to point to that but i no way that like you know the [TS]

  Porsche 911 has looked like the same car for fifty years just slowly evolved year [TS]

  over year and the way that especially starting with the the iPhone 4 that all [TS]

  iPhones since have been sort of quick you know you can just telling somebody [TS]

  has an iPhone in her hand right point although the five see you know obviously [TS]

  is its own unique thing but anyways but the the ones with them you know more [TS]

  rectangular corners in this metal frame around the sign you know that I think [TS]

  that we're done with radical changes to the Iowa seven UI for years to come [TS]

  for sure we'll see tweaks year over year but that this general flat look is to [TS]

  the software what the iPhone 4 shape was to the hardware couldn't agree more I [TS]

  mean all indications my essay is just gonna be tweaks here and there to the [TS]

  user interface but nothing in terms of [TS]

  the overall philosophy or style behind it and of course they're gonna fix up [TS]

  you know the screw ups in the voice memos app in terms of it being confusing [TS]

  simply notifications that are a bit but no nothing to you move away from this [TS]

  aesthetic yeah they did a lot of that with Iowa 7.1 really I mean it's just [TS]

  one of those little things where they've got to be on the OS has to be on the [TS]

  same shipping schedule as the hardware and if the hardware had to have iowa 7 [TS]

  you know and whatever new phones and iPads have coming out this year are [TS]

  going to be running iOS 8 [TS]

  they're gonna be devices they can't boot Iowa seven that's how it is every year [TS]

  so there had to be something called Iowa 7 that shipped in September because [TS]

  that's when the iPhones came out I think that I was 7.1 if iOS [TS]

  was just software-only and Apple didn't do their own hardware 7.1 was the first [TS]

  version that I think they would be shipped yeah it's not just about bugs [TS]

  but also that they like you said they cleared up a lot of navigational [TS]

  ambiguities for sure absolutely anything you can see how much care really went [TS]

  into the move from seven to seven point one of those I i mean forget the new [TS]

  more rounded slider how are you going to the weather at I mean something that is [TS]

  not important as little clips to show the snow the rain clouds like the days [TS]

  to come in like the week view those have been changed immensely as well so it's [TS]

  the small things shows the level to tell ya I'm almost surprised I think they had [TS]

  to I think they felt like they had to because they know that I was seven cuz [TS]

  it was so much in so little time [TS]

  it was so much in so little time [TS]

  you know that they really needed to dig in and do a pretty significant point one [TS]

  release I think it's probably the most significant point one release in Iowa [TS]

  history but not surprised because it took so long because it clearly was [TS]

  eating into the time where I S eight development was ramping up right now yes [TS]

  why you know because they want to do these things annually they don't have [TS]

  much time from when they ship Iowa 72 where they've really gotta have most of [TS]

  their engineers working you know all week long every day on I was a right and [TS]

  you can see the shift there like every year the fewer major clean up these [TS]

  dialects like there was like I was 4.3 iOS 4.3 that was three major point of [TS]

  these thoughts for i dont member how far 3.0 3.3 but now I mean like we're going [TS]

  from sent out at some point in the next big ones gonna be point out 60611 7.0 [TS]

  55116 going out so they're moving quickly last but not least let's say [TS]

  this what he would do you have any Inklings on on Apple's calendar schedule [TS]

  for the rest of the year [TS]

  you know accidents and I want to talk about it and I believe it was the second [TS]

  quarter and a third quarter earnings call last year too upset hate 2013 we're [TS]

  gonna really do everything in the fall by 2014 gonna be a big year we have big [TS]

  plans for a cross and he said the word cross 2014 and this was not only on the [TS]

  call itself but in the press release to and here we are mid-april nothing or end [TS]

  of April almost and not a word not a soul and in two years ago it was two [TS]

  years ago they had a January event New York for e-books and education right I [TS]

  was sort of a one off they've never followed up [TS]

  but I kind of felt like it was hey we don't you know you know don't forget [TS]

  about us while we were in a quiet period after the holidays last year they didn't [TS]

  do anything until WWDC and they put that out there they kind of spread the word [TS]

  that hey we're not gonna you know when I can remain the same told WBZ in this [TS]

  year they didn't say it is just let that that late March Early February February [TS]

  and March time frame where for a couple of years they were announcing new iPads [TS]

  they've just let it go without announcing anything like I kind of [TS]

  thought months ago if they had new product categories to announce like what [TS]

  the iPad was in 2010 and 2011 that that would be the time when they would do it [TS]

  because they moved the iPad to the fall that's when everybody expects new iPad [TS]

  this year again but it opens up that February March area for new product [TS]

  categories and I was thinking that the I mean I know that Apple TV was planned [TS]

  for introduction in the first half of 2014 it could've been pushed back could [TS]

  have been delayed for you as wide but I mean with Tim Cook saying that there's [TS]

  gonna be new stuff cross 2014 including a new product category at some point [TS]

  during the year [TS]

  you know something to go wrong i mean CEO of Apple wouldn't say new products [TS]

  across 2014 and not released new products across 2014 [TS]

  it or when I wonder I'm maybe something slipped or maybe it's you know we know [TS]

  the date for WBC its first week in June right that still leaves plenty of room I [TS]

  think for a cross the year where if you know but I think it would require [TS]

  hardware announcements at WWDC not just software announcements yeah I think [TS]

  that's a given at this point I mean I don't know though given for what [TS]

  announcing what kind of hardware laptops at the very least I'd say well BC I [TS]

  don't think that counts I think something [TS]

  be on laptops I think not that they have to not that they're going to but that to [TS]

  sort of hit that that definition of announcing new products across the year [TS]

  it has to be more than just updated MacBook Air MacBook Pros could be the [TS]

  next to watch you know every now and again don't think this is true because [TS]

  the the phone stuff is so gargantuan in terms of the ramp up in in the supply [TS]

  chain that they can't they just cant keep it secret weeks in advance anymore [TS]

  but you know I thought before in theory what if they you know announced the new [TS]

  iPhone then what if the iPhone you know how like the two years ago to come up [TS]

  there in the first iPads with the retina displays the iPad 3 and then six months [TS]

  later they said here's iPad 4 with Retina display and you know better 886 [TS]

  processor i mean that makes sense in terms of the recent talk about how the [TS]

  four point seven inch model in the 5.5 maybe the four point seven VDC and later [TS]

  in the year the hope that what I don't know or maybe they just say here's the [TS]

  next you know his iPhone 6 and it comes out six 6 months or seven months after [TS]

  my guess would be more like eight months but there's no promise that you get it [TS]

  that if you bought your iPhone 5s on day one that you are going to get twelve [TS]

  months of this is the top of the line iPhone right course I mean but I don't [TS]

  know Apple TV could be at WWDC announcement to yeah I thought the same [TS]

  thing that that could be I'm not hearing anything about it and just pulling stuff [TS]

  out of manhattan thinking what they could announce the only thing I know [TS]

  about Apple TV is I know that there are some amazing engineers working on Apple [TS]

  TV like sure type of engineers who there's no way that they're working on [TS]

  the Apple TV as we know it you know [TS]

  course simple little up down left right selecting [TS]

  that there's some really good people on a mean whether it's something that's [TS]

  coming this year or later or I don't know but I mean could be minor AppleTV [TS]

  refresh perhaps at the new software SDK iOS I mean look at the Apple TV [TS]

  interface is still stuck in the force all days as well so you know they need [TS]

  updates on both sides of the coin [TS]

  having been at Microsoft build conference two weeks ago and you know [TS]

  that they you know and it was so fun you know a link to a couple of pieces today [TS]

  from Brent Simmons and Justin Williams about how it was at Moscone West which [TS]

  is where it was like this bizarro world WWDC we're in so many ways it looked [TS]

  like to be deputy CNN so many you know when you do see oh my god that is so [TS]

  weird you know in this is so weird and one of them you know not really weird [TS]

  but one of the ways that that struck me about build was this day of this column [TS]

  universal absurd whatever they're called him but that there's one way to write an [TS]

  app that runs on Windows PCs Windows phones tablets and Xbox [TS]

  obviously the interface is totally different but it's the same you know [TS]

  developer tools and API's for shared stuff so the stuff that could be shared [TS]

  as shared but the thing that got me was that you know they're really really you [TS]

  know right now Microsoft with the Xbox one and the current run time in their [TS]

  developer tools is pushing hey you can write apps that run in people's living [TS]

  rooms on their Xbox one you know that's that's a that's a ship that's taking off [TS]

  yes for sure the living room opens up so many different opportunities perhaps to [TS]

  that just makes me think you know and if they're gonna do it part of the story of [TS]

  a next generation Apple TV doesn't even matter what what the just to the [TS]

  hardware is you know that if it's a hit TV with a great actual TV set with an [TS]

  integrated [TS]

  it's a separate boxes of plug-in doesn't matter if it has has to do with acts and [TS]

  third party apps in App Store WWDC is the time to do it because you know they [TS]

  have to wait another year otherwise I mean that today would that they couldn't [TS]

  release it in October and just released the developer info is stuff on the web [TS]

  but the perfect time to do it is at WWDC keynote to flow to anything about it i [TS]

  mean they're not going to just have a keynote for iOS eight which is not that [TS]

  big of an update and a new operating system just has a new look and no city [TS]

  saint peters out his barracks I mean there's a formula here include some [TS]

  hardware some sort [TS]

  well and the other thing too about Mac OS two min obviously Mac OS 10 is gonna [TS]

  be huge part in the keynote just because of the new look great and have all sorts [TS]

  of information and and you know how you're going to get your apps to take [TS]

  advantage of the new look and still you know run on Mac OS 10.9 and all this [TS]

  stuff but the truth is the Mac and you know the max a great business and I [TS]

  really do think Apple's heart is in it but it's just not big enough for a ball [TS]

  tipped to be a centerpiece of the keynote anymore [TS]

  bis there has to be a new product right for sure he said even like [TS]

  psychologically [TS]

  updated areas I'm back with pros WWDC and then cut it for you because it's [TS]

  just not big enough business really isn't not that that won't get good time [TS]

  and that you know that they're not proud of it and it certainly means a lot to [TS]

  the people who were in the room at WBC because every single all 5,000 [TS]

  developers are using Macs to develop their apps where they're writing Mac [TS]

  software iOS software absolutely but it's just not big enough will you be [TS]

  there they're going to see this year I expect to be yeah yeah I'll be there too [TS]

  I mean I don't have a ticket or a press pass will be there during the week so [TS]

  yeah well then you want to get together so that's a good question was going to [TS]

  ask about that so you do you you've never got a press pass through the Apple [TS]

  events I have only known get a press pass I haven't gotten a press email [TS]

  reply so yeah no relationship there with Apple at this point [TS]

  and you but you ask yeah yeah I asked you ask age time like everytime diabetes [TS]

  he gets announced you do you know throw it through another question to get a [TS]

  press pass yeah last couple years yourself haven't really gotten any [TS]

  replies for that or stories you know ask them to comment on the grocery store and [TS]

  they give the comments everyone else so I don't know I you know it doesn't seem [TS]

  like they really interact with the Apple only websites I mean during fireball is [TS]

  not an Apple rumor site [TS]

  fortunate that Apple rumors that you but I mean I'd be more concerned or more [TS]

  yes I don't know if that's the right word cuz I probably would be upset [TS]

  either way but I'd be more concerned if like MacRumors getting invited to those [TS]

  events which there so I don't think so either know it's a good point and part [TS]

  of it they do seem to have had a couple of years ago a sort of reflection [TS]

  inflection point where they they've really all of a sudden opened up to [TS]

  online only [TS]

  publications like where previously they really only given top terror press [TS]

  access to print based journalists so and it was a lot more limited so like the [TS]

  first couple of years [TS]

  iPhone review units only went to Lake poke mossberg [TS]

  begley at the USA today steven levy while he was in newsweek but that you [TS]

  know newsweek you know went under [TS]

  but it was really you know like the first iPhone I think only went too late [TS]

  for for writers for a live video and they were all had roots in print you [TS]

  know the Wall Street Journal The New York Times USA Today and it seemed like [TS]

  they had a moment where I started getting I had press passes back then but [TS]

  then I never had review unit of anything and then they really opened up and [TS]

  started giving a lot more review units and the you know off the record [TS]

  briefings that go with them not just to me it wasn't like they elevated mean [TS]

  next to Hogan mossberg but that you know a lot of others to what was the first to [TS]

  review the iPhone four for us just got time on the next one question I believe [TS]

  in fact I'm almost certain that it was the Verizon iPhone 4 which is a little [TS]

  interesting because it was not a major event I think I could be wrong but I [TS]

  think that things remain memories shot but I'm pretty sure that I was out on [TS]

  the west coast for Macworld Expo and it worked out that I could just swing down [TS]

  to Cupertino and get a briefing and signed all the NDA's and pick it up and [TS]

  you know I haven't but otherwise it would've gone like from Philly up to New [TS]

  York as they they went you know they had a team go to New York to distribute them [TS]

  to writers there but I think I'm almost certain that the that was when it [TS]

  started and I think I've gotten a review unit of every iOS device sense right [TS]

  away if I missed anything it wasn't anything major right right yeah your [TS]

  views are always interesting to me I love how the embargo lifted a certain [TS]

  time and then you just post George three hours later the next day and everyone [TS]

  jumps to read your always try I try I try to get I try to hit the embargo [TS]

  deadline but I never do I'm really terrible [TS]

  I mean like this point but I know but I think some people think I do it on [TS]

  purpose now that I i think you do it on purpose I don't and it used to be that I [TS]

  get you know that that they'd call me or email me and I hate when you know where [TS]

  your review [TS]

  like why am I reading him and it wasn't like I was in trouble there's no there [TS]

  is absolutely no hey you know there's there's a rule that says you cannot [TS]

  publish before nine o'clock on Thursday there's no rule that says you have to [TS]

  publish by 905 Pacific do you know I just think though that everybody else [TS]

  wants to publish right away that it never occurred to them that we missed it [TS]

  by four hours later it was like they didn't ever in wasn't like they were [TS]

  angry they were just confused and wondering sure everything was alright [TS]

  what's wrong with our phones before we wrap up what do you think about the [TS]

  watch you got to drink I mean it'll be interesting to see which direction to go [TS]

  into I mean based on all the recent hires it really seems like it's gonna be [TS]

  a medical appliance or have a medical medical I think I don't think so i think [TS]

  thats all I think it's too limiting and it's no fun it's not I think it's one [TS]

  complete any human I thought it was the the phone web browser and I thought I [TS]

  don't think you would be farfetched to think that a watch is gonna be your [TS]

  media your health and some cool mapping functionality something like that I mean [TS]

  hires in terms of those from the medical space it's really been a thing across [TS]

  2013 and 2014 [TS]

  you know how the Apple product cycles work i mean i phone was in the works [TS]

  two and a half years three years before that launched and if they got all these [TS]

  medical hires over the last year two or so and we're talking about people's [TS]

  lives here [TS]

  FDA regulations I don't think we would be able to be able to ship a device that [TS]

  does everything their newly hired engineers are capable of creating this [TS]

  year or even early next year so I'll tell that could be for future [TS]

  generations and they could start off like you know the original iPhone 3G [TS]

  could be just a few medical things here and there some core mats functionality [TS]

  getting your notifications and then over time they could you know of all the [TS]

  product to be something [TS]

  trigger I do think in a couple people have been writing about it recently it [TS]

  doesn't seem to add up financially to be an IV phone or I even iPad style [TS]

  business now cuz i phones from Apple's perspective accounting myself words 6567 [TS]

  $800 each [TS]

  you don't pay that when you go to the carrier but the carrier that pays Apple [TS]

  like you buy a new 50 s starts at like six hundred and fifty bucks [TS]

  iPads you know now clearly you can get the iPad Mini [TS]

  without cellular for you know three hundred and fifty bucks but the bigger [TS]

  ones you know are 45 $600 devices I don't think you can sell a thing you [TS]

  wearing your wrist four five six seven hundred dollars or you could sell it but [TS]

  it wouldn't be wouldn't sell to enough people right although this is ridiculous [TS]

  talk about the thousands of dollars for you I watch any of its colder later [TS]

  something but that's totally not now I was going back and forth some people [TS]

  into the day about it and somebody else I forget who but some reader genotype 2 [TS]

  chimed in and said sure lots of companies sell thousand dollar watches [TS]

  multi $1000 watches but those watches are heirlooms you're expected if you go [TS]

  and buy for $5,000 water even two or three thousand dollar watch from Rolex [TS]

  or Amiga or any of the companies that make watches like that you're expecting [TS]

  to have a watch your gonna own for the rest of your life that you can pass on [TS]

  to your children going to be you know useful and even better it's going to be [TS]

  even better than it was right because if you had like your grandfather's Rolex [TS]

  and it still keeps great I'm gonna have this great old style gonna be timeless [TS]

  and you've got this connection computer devices you know don't write whatever [TS]

  that thing is three or four years from now things going to be in everybody's [TS]

  destro because it's going to be three or four year old technology yeah yeah [TS]

  probably be used by that I mean if you look at that Apple update cycle I mean [TS]

  even the iPhone 3G s quite useless you can lead a software so [TS]

  ya gotta think about it in terms of iPod pricing I really do you know for sure I [TS]

  also feel like maybe the same that we're all overlooking is just the way that [TS]

  like the iPhone came out and had all these sensors that just nobody ever [TS]

  really thought of before not that the technology was amazing but that all [TS]

  together it was like a proximity sensor so that the phone goes off when you hold [TS]

  it up to your face to make a call right she doesn't register as a touch and the [TS]

  accelerometer right and you know and they had the Super Monkey Ball Z game [TS]

  right there on day one in the App Store taking advantage of it but now it's like [TS]

  nothing right but it was the combination and you know that you could put any one [TS]

  of them maybe wouldn't be all that expensive and wouldn't be all that [TS]

  amazing but you put four five six of these centers in a device that you put [TS]

  on your wrist and all of a sudden maybe you do kind of get an amazing array of [TS]

  you know that this information about yourself [TS]

  but I don't know and I also feel like display why's it if it's anything it's [TS]

  gotta be like some kind of like new technology that nobody's thinking of [TS]

  devices that like Samsung's putting out that are like just take it take it [TS]

  2014 cell phone in shrink it to two inches and put it under arrest has got [TS]

  to be the wrong way of thinking about pressure speaking Samsung I love that [TS]

  that time were original Samsung Samsung designed yeah I mean it took [TS]

  me a minute to think about why this website playing who are really thats and [TS]

  I'm like I got it I think that that's the only did his last night I tweeted I [TS]

  did I didn't have any context to it all a road I just paste the URL and I think [TS]

  my game right as its quick look it up so if anybody listening to see it and I [TS]

  think I've that make ya Samsung design . and then you go there and [TS]

  it's just I don't know who did this is not me but it's brilliant it's just says [TS]

  original designed by Samsung this blog is dedicated to showcase all the [TS]

  innovative and original designed by Samsung and it says there are no posts [TS]

  in the UC which Apple employees [TS]

  I did I saw you link to it you linked to a screenshot showing that somebody I [TS]

  don't know he is a good some kind of marketing something scholer favored it [TS]

  from his Twitter account [TS]

  yeah how did you spot that I was a good way to end the show that the thing that [TS]

  got me the thing that made me interesting about that it wasn't that [TS]

  show her favorite at my tweet it was that you saw that show her favorite at [TS]

  my tweet the Twitter apps and TweetDeck or not there is an Activity tab it shows [TS]

  you all that stuff it what made you look like a stream of people following the [TS]

  game and I followed both of you so it shouldn't that technology huh yeah well [TS]

  mark Herman thank you for being on the show was great [TS]

  ya gotta have you back but everybody can follow your your reporting and 9 to 5 [TS]

  Mac where you are senior editor and then on Twitter use Twitter account [TS]

  mark with AK government G U R M A N [TS]

  yeah you should follow it to John DME I could reply says I should when you tell [TS]

  me play live live on the show I'm gonna follow mark fuhrman quite the [TS]

  endorsement everybody else as you listen you should do the same thing here we go [TS]

  follow you know I you know what I i for 500 people I just assumed that I was far [TS]

  I mean I'm a very similar to Gruber it's gonna be me and talk about the Lakers [TS]

  basketball over well with your team Phillies Yankees Yankees Yankees sorry [TS]

  but I don't know you like basketball and Apple get a kick out of some stuff [TS]

  shoulders Red Sox man so I doubt that he favorites me my tweets [TS]