The Talk Show

63: Would You Pay A Quarter For That?


  so Glenn Fleishman welcome to the toxin thanks for having me on I so let's just [TS]

  run down the ball is your guide the near two-year I think and I think this is new [TS]

  since the last time you were on this does show is that I think that you're [TS]

  now the owner publisher editor or not editor I'm not sure about that [TS]

  of the the magazine I'm everything on the bottle washer yeah I think I was on [TS]

  just before mark when I did the dealer few months before it was a good that was [TS]

  actually think after I came on as editor yellow Marco sold everything except his [TS]

  dog and children sparkles and judy was very funny time but yeah it's logical [TS]

  units I love doing this and and mark as a programmer and the cycle is really [TS]

  differ between being a programmer in a publisher and I think the timing is [TS]

  great when he was ready to move on with his new endeavors do not know your [TS]

  secret podcast thing but anyway you running an entire magazine a weekly [TS]

  bangs no biweekly that's correct [TS]

  fortnightly every two weeks [TS]

  biweekly one of those words that can mean two different things [TS]

  yes I can you quick and you will perennial which means every year in [TS]

  which means that only wants they both mean every year and an annual plant that [TS]

  is the plan annual implants I guess the thing is it only comes out once an [TS]

  appreciable bloom again every year it it's it's it's language language is [TS]

  probably a biweekly doesn't have any weekly monthly bi-monthly can mean twice [TS]

  a month or every two months the languages of all three most people say [TS]

  semi monthly or twice a month by month means every other month but yeah it's [TS]

  becoming periodicals became more common because publications are reducing their [TS]

  frequencies New York magazine is going to every other week down for instance [TS]

  after many many years of being weekly Saturday [TS]

  read off the bar top available all bunch of the on topics but there was a day of [TS]

  a great article ID and yeah I have not yet linked it from daring fireball but [TS]

  by the time the show comes out I will have a cover story on a new issue of the [TS]

  magazine about Alex Rodriguez the New York Yankees battle superstar and it's [TS]

  one of the finest pieces of journalism that I've read in a long time because [TS]

  there's this whole thing where he's been accused of using performance-enhancing [TS]

  drugs any position at 211 game suspension and he's farted and nobody [TS]

  really knows what the hell is going on and this article and I follow as a as a [TS]

  Yankees fan I've been following the saga you know pretty avidly I guess I would [TS]

  say you know all year long and still had no idea like to me it was never been [TS]

  clear just what evidence they had against them they must have had [TS]

  something blah blah blah this article makes the whole thing clear you really [TS]

  truly journalism at its finest [TS]

  get a funny thing journalism is a problem because the best kind of [TS]

  journalism that we think we like the most that we like sticks with us and you [TS]

  will go back and read or turns to a book or it changes the law or whatever that [TS]

  stuff is so ridiculously unprofitable it costs so much money to do that entire [TS]

  news organizations are devoted to making enough money to afford to be able to do [TS]

  that sort of journalism yeah just caught i mean the Seattle Times always save [TS]

  them because their family-run paper the family is really weird and made some [TS]

  really terrible business decisions would sell 51% owned by the family that bought [TS]

  in the 1800's and they will do things like spend two million dollars for a [TS]

  two-year investigation into the washing state courts ceiling documents [TS]

  inappropriately and caused massive positive political social change they [TS]

  did not make two million dollars on everything else they did subsidized that [TS]

  two million dollars so that could happen and they have to actually believe in the [TS]

  mission of believe that [TS]

  gives him an aura that keep subscribers or bring subscribers in that was worth [TS]

  it and and that's our hearts that's a hard sell [TS]

  yeah and just you know this article I'm talking about just title chasing Iran [TS]

  and it is written by gotta go back to page one which I want to get into Steve [TS]

  Fishman wrote a cover story related to me of course and and it it was a [TS]

  monumental effort it really is you know in the best of feature-length magazine [TS]

  writing is is much closer to in scope to book writing and to you know article [TS]

  writing it's closer to a miniature book than it is to you know to me an article [TS]

  is somewhere around a thousand words once you get past that you know you're [TS]

  somehow you're taking on something that needs a lot more nurturing work but he [TS]

  traveled to Miami that's where Alex Rodriguez lives and in a big part of the [TS]

  reason this article so interesting is that it's the fees the first journalist [TS]

  who who Alex Rodriguez had opened up two and so we travel to Miami hung out with [TS]

  them and was there he spent time in New York in the the trial but arbitration [TS]

  hearing with major league baseball bats at Springer ass in the seat in a room [TS]

  where there you know those things anybody's ever been in a courtroom jury [TS]

  duty or even just gotten out of jury duty you know that all those things they [TS]

  go slowly its days you know just waiting [TS]

  for what you know couple of paragraphs and in the meantime you know as a writer [TS]

  bills have to be paid you know so you it takes money to gather together the [TS]

  reporting let alone the time it takes to write the actual article I'm reading a [TS]

  bill Stephenson [TS]

  apiece for wired years ago where he traced fiber-optic cable around the [TS]

  world and I read it I thought a this is still you know the type of his career [TS]

  but this one is really on the peak so he's getting massive amounts of advances [TS]

  and selling millions of books and and I thought hey how much do they have to pay [TS]

  him for a fee but be reading all the places he went in thinking he had like a [TS]

  $75,000 expense budget traveling coach two star hotels because of the fifty [TS]

  places he went to sheer amount of time it's astonishing the amount that's the [TS]

  use of thousand words you can talk to someone on the phone or a thousand words [TS]

  you know you're 20 minute conversation conversation right about one thing but [TS]

  when you get beyond that you have to start to shape the narrative and you [TS]

  have to start doing research you have to have things that go beyond the obvious [TS]

  or a few quotations because otherwise like what are you writing about for that [TS]

  long was not enough to send me your people philosophical essays and longer [TS]

  but if you're writing about news and all things then you know yeah and so that's [TS]

  I still feel and I feel like it's a good topic to talk to you about is is where [TS]

  does the money for this type of work continued to come from as we move [TS]

  forward and BuzzFeed driven world that's what I'm asking where does it come from [TS]

  its you know and I don't know where to start but with [TS]

  just stuff in the last week you know where over Thanksgiving did you follow [TS]

  you had to follow this this align gale laga oh yeah that was yeah and I felt [TS]

  very bad for my spot about myself at first I thought it was hilarious and I [TS]

  thought oh no wait the guy's a dick and I thought no this can't be true you know [TS]

  went through through regret for anybody who missed a deal on Gale I never heard [TS]

  of before but he's apparently this producer executive producer of the bunch [TS]

  of really shitty reality shows like The Bachelor and the Bachelorette something [TS]

  else and over Thanksgiving I guess on the day he tweeted a series of tweets [TS]

  ostensibly live from the wi-fi equipped plane about it [TS]

  terrible woman a few rows ahead of him who was berating the crew because their [TS]

  flight was delayed and and this woman hands up and then he sent her notes [TS]

  drinks and i got really rude with her and that was the part that there's too [TS]

  weird parts to it the weirdest part is that it ends up the whole thing was fake [TS]

  he made the whole but a lot of you know but it was all presented as being true [TS]

  and even Twitter when people said hey is this fake and he you know denied it but [TS]

  the other thing too is that even if it was true you said it first at first and [TS]

  it was like us low boiling frog for his behavior to the first if it were true [TS]

  was kind of funny but then when he started sending notes to her that that [TS]

  said he might Dec [TS]

  you know it's it's over the line I mean that's actually a really creepy thing to [TS]

  do if even if it were true I mean that's you know they can get you arrested [TS]

  everyone in this situation he interested in and then she allegedly he said she [TS]

  slapped him and nothing happened [TS]

  police were called and you know it was it was a weird for me it's you know this [TS]

  is the channeling that [TS]

  that bridge we all have now because the airlines packets in its all of the [TS]

  Flying Spur is horrible and all the flat plains are full and everything is bad [TS]

  about flying they did a great job tapping into that that feeling where we [TS]

  see play we feel like we are surrounded by horrible people even if they're [TS]

  perfectly nice other circumstance everyone has pushed the limit and he's [TS]

  like you know so I'm taking actions like I that's great but the thing is is it [TS]

  turned into sensation I mean then you know multi million pageviews sensation [TS]

  BuzzFeed and picked it up and I'll BuzzFeed did and probably did as much as [TS]

  anybody to to drive it as a way to say this a viral meme I don't know story but [TS]

  it it was even if it were true it is kind of bullshit to be the biggest story [TS]

  of the day and ends up the whole thing was a hoax and was rather easily [TS]

  verified as a hoax or at least you know nobody did any work to actually see if [TS]

  it were true and yet that everything has continued to devolve even everybody [TS]

  knows that page views are so problematic as a measure of advertising and so many [TS]

  ways that the publishing world has continued to even knowing how poisonous [TS]

  this whole model is as continued to devolve in that direction and I can't [TS]

  think of it's it's it's as good an example is anything I mean the cures [TS]

  example of where we're at is that Business Insider running you know they [TS]

  got all kinds of opinions about them of course and how they do they fight they [TS]

  follow pageviews the one of their editors wrote about his rebooked trip to [TS]

  China where was paid for by the Chinese airline that whole crazy story like [TS]

  million 1.5 million page views or something a story about how he was [TS]

  traveling in the lap of luxury took a bunch of pictures and Harry blodgett [TS]

  awful thing about being cramped and an American Airlines flight last year [TS]

  whatever that was [TS]

  they got hundreds of thousands of you so they figured out how to tap people sort [TS]

  of curious [TS]

  or I don't know what it is like its interest and turn it into massive [TS]

  traffic and then they sell that message traffic at an incredibly incredibly low [TS]

  rate so they have to have billions of used to make any kind of real money in [TS]

  any case but but they're finding people will come and read the stuff so there is [TS]

  an audience for it and and there's no chance that that sort of crap is going [TS]

  to go away and I'm not even saying it should I mean you know and in some sense [TS]

  you know this guy is professional career as an example of that you know where yes [TS]

  we have class he is in his day job to write but it really does show you a min [TS]

  and and if you watch even just tuned in [TS]

  you know halfway through any random episode of one of these reality shows [TS]

  with a critical eye it you can really see just how the whole thing you know it [TS]

  really the the word reality need two quotes around it because it it how could [TS]

  it be you know like where these regular characters enter a room and somebody [TS]

  who's there are you know ostensibly meeting documentary style you know for [TS]

  real is already wearing a lot a lav mic you know it's like it's almost like how [TS]

  can you possibly believe that this is real if there are people there meeting [TS]

  you know in a restaurant or something have already been liked what I saw that [TS]

  the other day so it was like if you see if a random person that someone needs a [TS]

  reality show is already Mike for sound it's not a random person like oh well [TS]

  yes but you don't think the talented could tell that was the same thing with [TS]

  the Elan situation as someone pointed out a couple days afterwards said the [TS]

  picture where he posted the note with the glass of wine he couldn't have taken [TS]

  that cause I would have meant that he had gotten up it was standing next to [TS]

  her taking the photo before she whatever there's no way that would have worked [TS]

  like he doesn't make any sense it's like oh you're right it was internally [TS]

  inconsistent Nick Bilton that the new york times actually looking at flight [TS]

  schedules and so forth in correlating with tweets and decided it was nonsense [TS]

  just based on God cracked me up that's funny [TS]

  I thought it was my first sign of something set me off on it right away in [TS]

  my first thing was that maybe it's my ears I i dont know I've said this before [TS]

  Nash I worry a little bit and runs in my family that hearing loss and the man is [TS]

  sort of a problem so maybe it's just me but I have trouble like when when we sit [TS]

  like my family travels and Amy and I both take aisle seats and maybe Jonas [TS]

  sits in the middle next day me I have trouble hearing Amy across the aisle [TS]

  you know like if I'm seven sea and she's have indeed I I have trouble hearing her [TS]

  on this chip because you know on the plane because she doesn't want to talk [TS]

  real loud you know and he said she was I don't know five rows ahead of her three [TS]

  or four rows ahead of all yeah yeah it's really hard over here somebody even if [TS]

  somebody was really you know sort of being abusive towards the flight crew if [TS]

  she sitting five rows ahead of you it's really pretty heart plus the whole thing [TS]

  like it was repeated endlessly over and over and over again that she was Diane [TS]

  in 778 is a Windows so all this note passing nonsense it's a little bit more [TS]

  possible if it's like a 747 with it [TS]

  242 you know with two aisles does then you know I guess he could only have to [TS]

  reach over one person 7 be but most planes on domestic flights are not 747 [TS]

  their you know their forget them not narrow but they called their be their [TS]

  main line but [TS]

  27 908 Alaska has an upgraded boeing that I really like to read the other day [TS]

  actually has room I could cross my legs but if it's a three [TS]

  three seats I'll three seats set up then you know it's really almost impossible [TS]

  to pass a note to somebody in seven people were preparing this credibly like [TS]

  it got turned into news cycle to the news incredibly fast without any actual [TS]

  documentary evidence except his tweets and people suppositions even though if [TS]

  you'd stop is Nick Bilton did or as you're thinking about it other people to [TS]

  look at the photos I anyone with any journalist should have taken their [TS]

  powers of observation and pointed out that this was very clearly shaken he was [TS]

  Prime actually curious if the guy himself was astonished that people took [TS]

  it is real because he had there are so many tiles yeah I think he did I think I [TS]

  don't think he was astonished I think he tried to fake it and he's get somebody [TS]

  else pointed out the history of the sort of thing yeah yeah but it really shows [TS]

  you what he thinks of as reality it's you know it's you know I guess it's what [TS]

  makes some good at his job that it makes me think that you know the bachelor [TS]

  there's probably you know what's the idea with The Bachelor and the [TS]

  Bachelorette there's like a hero character on the bad guy and then the [TS]

  bats right there was a woman and in a present them a dozen people of the [TS]

  opposite gender to pick from and each week they they kick one out that the [TS]

  person probably doesn't even kick them out you know that the show probably tell [TS]

  them who to pick based on you know who's who's the most popular you know that [TS]

  it's probably all you know as contrived as the whole thing would be if it were [TS]

  run on the up-and-up it's probably not even running even in this film films and [TS]

  TV too I think they have to they think they have to is that film that cannot [TS]

  several years ago [TS]

  good king of Congress 4th quarters about yeah it's a great movie [TS]

  competition to score the perfect on Konga yea and they're on the reserve [TS]

  villainous got billy who ran a restaurant in and had baby faked so high [TS]

  scores me but probably gotten in history is on the cover of newsweek or something [TS]

  in the eighties and his upcoming laid off school teacher who is playing in his [TS]

  garage and tops of the whole school high score so he's the hero you got the [TS]

  villain [TS]

  well there's a piece and I think it was Atlantics after the movie came out by a [TS]

  guy who'd been involved in the shooting of you said well the way he was depicted [TS]

  the kind of emphasized to make stuff up but they made him into a villain because [TS]

  they wanted to go in the film for people to root against them and actually is [TS]

  much more nuanced as everyone is life but it's hard to new film and TV often [TS]

  remove the nuance because you can't tell a story as well in those mediums without [TS]

  having you know what it really could without having without having [TS]

  identifiable people to root for and against time use part of human nature [TS]

  but it's also a lot of films are made perfectly but I think you know that [TS]

  stuff is not going to go away I think everybody watch it I think you should [TS]

  watch it with a giant grain of salt [TS]

  I do think I think it's and I do think that's to me is the interesting take [TS]

  away from this girl tweet Oaks thing is not just that his tweet thing was a hoax [TS]

  but what is it tell you about you know these reality shows that dominate TV you [TS]

  know major network TV today I saw another tweet a couple days ago from [TS]

  some number who who just posited that if you showed today's reality shows to [TS]

  someone from twenty years ago [TS]

  twenty-five years ago they would think it was tough from a dystopian science [TS]

  fiction future oh yea or the or they might also see also see it for the false [TS]

  front presents is a bit was the man who mistook his wife for a half hour sex [TS]

  book I think it's in the book where he talks about being an award where there [TS]

  are people who were fission and other people one group of people could not [TS]

  understand the meanings of words but they get here words literally only the [TS]

  other could not understand what words meant but they could hear the emotion [TS]

  behind its two different neurological conditions and he watched them watching [TS]

  ronald reagan deliver speeches and they were all laughing because reagan was a [TS]

  perfect melding his description at least I love being able to to live effectively [TS]

  in some combination but if you can cut out either the meaning or the emotional [TS]

  part it was transparent I have that feeling sometimes if you took somebody [TS]

  who hadn't watched TV in a bit of culture often in remote place a comeback [TS]

  twenty-five years later they watch reality TV said once everyone sees think [TS]

  these are these are made for TV movies really no no this is supposed to be real [TS]

  did say but it's so fake you know and we've become conditions to what we [TS]

  believe reality is supposed to be as portrayed in those and we accept it more [TS]

  fully as reality everything is world wide Wrestling foundation whether it's [TS]

  called right now it's all it's all wrestling horrible people right I always [TS]

  think back and the first thought I had when I saw that tweet and who it was but [TS]

  if you know I apologize for not remembering [TS]

  that first thing I thought of was that show that was on all the TVs in Robocop [TS]

  was that that creepy old earn in a busy guy who was always surrounded by like [TS]

  really cranky models and and the matter what have many had that catch phrase I'd [TS]

  buy that for a dollar it's the best thing and you know that dates back to [TS]

  the club with story the marching morons great science fiction story you can find [TS]

  online for the nineteen fifties the phrase there was what you pay a quarter [TS]

  for that it was it was today and that story it's an ad guy convinces the [TS]

  supposedly stupidest people in society to board rocket ships that land on the [TS]

  Sun go straight to the Sun to get rid of all the excess population of idiots [TS]

  that's that's kinda nineteen fifties ideas story I also thought of the old [TS]

  Steven Kane novella I think one of the 10 day under a pseudonym Richard that [TS]

  the running man which they turned into a schwarzenegger movie but sort of film [TS]

  the novella was a lot less schwarzeneggar II and little bit but it [TS]

  was really kind of spot on about where TV's going that it's it is sort of [TS]

  feeling now you know obviously the the King twist was that they were actually [TS]

  trying to kill the protectionists and that is not going to happen but it does [TS]

  I was a season of Survivor much they put people with no clean water supply [TS]

  braiding parasites on the island so you know nobody died but we did have a [TS]

  medical crews nearby for the parasites but there it does sort of feed into the [TS]

  sort of dark side of our psyche that that led to you know the Roman Coliseum [TS]

  right where ya [TS]

  you know as long as you can brand the people as some sort of other you know [TS]

  watching them destroy their lives you can take solace you know you do take [TS]

  pleasure in it right [TS]

  well they're just you know trashy housewives from beverly hills so you [TS]

  know watching you know one of them you know drink herself into rehab on TV in [TS]

  front of the whole nation you know somehow you take pleasure in it [TS]

  supposed 26 vacillation gets ratings and it gets page views and we are denying [TS]

  something about ourselves as a society or humanity if we if we don't accept [TS]

  that but pandering to it we don't have to agree to pander to it I think that's [TS]

  been that dividing culture between highbrow and lowbrow is high bro is [TS]

  we're not going to pander you although bruh people should lift yourself up to [TS]

  our level so that you can appreciate this fine culture that's actually what [TS]

  you should be watching and lowbrow is look we're just enjoying the stuff it's [TS]

  not serious get off your high horse but the gap to get bigger and bigger for [TS]

  people and people who feel like there's a cultural a loss I mean people saying [TS]

  you know they can look at people running the 17th century about terrible popular [TS]

  music and entertainment and only the good stuff you could find in the salons [TS]

  and those idiots in the streets are are morons and I'm sure you can find a Roman [TS]

  times before like whenever there was culture there is a divide but it somehow [TS]

  seems more obvious to us now because it's so exposed we can all see and find [TS]

  the worst stuff and see exactly how many people are obsessed by reading the worst [TS]

  of which were used to not be able to eat enough to know that as much overtime was [TS]

  already on the New York Daily News still exists in all those are out there that [TS]

  used to be the battle between the new york times in the tabloid papers so it's [TS]

  just more obvious more and more people we know that we wouldn't think with [TS]

  spread it are passing on this stuff too so it gets in our face compared to [TS]

  something BuzzFeed even know BuzzFeed occasionally has really good features [TS]

  they had a really good feature I read about a young man from [TS]

  Utah who who disappeared in China at the end of his mission and his family spent [TS]

  has spent the last few years trying to figure out what happened to him in their [TS]

  best gas and they really have you know some pretty nothing confirming it but [TS]

  some pretty good circumstantial evidence that he might have been kidnapped by [TS]

  North Korean secret agents and taken to North Korea implausible sadly at [TS]

  BuzzFeed you know which you know it's not their bread and butter [TS]

  you know but there they are paying for some feature writing everybody was [TS]

  compared to compared to most of our BuzzFeed publishes though something like [TS]

  the New York Post New York Daily News is relatively high bruh today in the the [TS]

  issue the issue in the long form journalism trend is that a lot of sites [TS]

  that do that do you know they make it up in in volume so BuzzFeed you know they [TS]

  their same thing with Huffington Post to some extent or politically no different [TS]

  but you need Business Insider probably in this camp to his they need billions [TS]

  of very very very low paying pageviews to have enough money to afford to do [TS]

  stuff that will get higher ad rates because it's higher quality but requires [TS]

  more of investment and BuzzFeed certainly huge war chest of of private [TS]

  investment and they certainly have been perfecting the bulk model and they've [TS]

  been hiring more and more serious journalism the episode of Top and the [TS]

  news reporting a long for men and are doing good work there much as I hate to [TS]

  say it but if they're in and I think actually is producing features now [TS]

  that's new [TS]

  all the sites out there that produce any kind of volume are also not trying to be [TS]

  too long form work [TS]

  but let's get back to that i'm gonna take a break right now then do the talk [TS]

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  find out more so anyway I started the Showtime the balls you have only got to [TS]

  the magazine here also still writing for speaking a magazine The Economist [TS]

  talk about you know doing it the right way and shooting you know for top tier [TS]

  journalism and and analysis [TS]

  you've got your podcast the new disrupters that weekly die every week [TS]

  every week its its head so I it's slightly nonperishable sometimes two [TS]

  batches at a time to celebrate New Year this is a year of episode David skipped [TS]

  one episodes i dont 50 51 52 is this week on the anniversary of when [TS]

  recording this issue congratulations and thank you it's so much fun it's just I [TS]

  love dealing with creative people like this background art work in journalism I [TS]

  love collaborating on my favorite thing is finding people that like to work with [TS]

  and figuring out something to do with them and so the podcast every week I [TS]

  gotta talk to new and interesting people who are just [TS]

  try to find a pollyanna but I like people who are excited and happy about [TS]

  what they do in that that kind of my Twitter problem to his people who are [TS]

  sad sacks I tend to unfollow like even if the people who otherwise likely I [TS]

  don't want relentless negativity I don't need relentless positivity either but so [TS]

  the podcast I find people who have just are just full of this incredible [TS]

  creativity and enthusiasm and engage with life and it sometimes it's you know [TS]

  really off-base tough and sometimes it's like you know these people are making a [TS]

  book or they have a business lady whatever but it's it's so much fun I'm [TS]

  on you were Twitter page [TS]

  Glenn F G with 2 N's says right now just under your profile page [TS]

  a hundred and eighty thousand and 91 tweets yet so crazy to not only forty [TS]

  thousand years I talked to be able to Twitter is not optimized for mentions so [TS]

  I will get blocked on Twitter during active things going on and 95% of what [TS]

  I'm treating its not you know public it starts with an at sign so only people [TS]

  following me and the other person CSI think of it as having a conversation and [TS]

  Twitter can set against you so I'll be going back and forth with someone you [TS]

  know Kwasi publicly but nobody on my own and my followers see unless they [TS]

  happened to intersect with the other person so for some people are being very [TS]

  talky you know if if you and i have a similar graph then I'm very talky for [TS]

  going back and forth but everybody else they don't see it all they've got you [TS]

  know configured whatever so it's weird in some ways I'm really prolific other [TS]

  ways it's like well this is my child to all this is my public chat [TS]

  so let me ask you this with the magazine you the magazine is still completely [TS]

  funded by subscriptions is that correct [TS]

  yeah I think we'll see the have to put a proviso in because we start doing some [TS]

  work with medium medium dot com because they are doing their own experiments [TS]

  with what people are gonna pay for content or look at for content so [TS]

  they're paying some publishers including me to develop some new content that [TS]

  appears exclusively their first so there's not it's not this you know [TS]

  wonderful giant pot of money they're throwing up so some money for the [TS]

  magazine could ostensibly said to be coming from the net after AP writers for [TS]

  for that but it's a pretty tiny amount relative to the subscription revenue [TS]

  know and there's no advertising medium which is why it makes it a reasonable [TS]

  place to work with where I don't have to change the model of what I'm doing are [TS]

  worried about people being irritated by having ads in one place or another sort [TS]

  of another publishing platform drying out and they're subsidizing that which [TS]

  is kinda cool but if they don't have bad what they don't charge for access than [TS]

  where where are they ever going to get money how is that not just burnin burnin [TS]

  up a pile of venture capital of course the team's bank [TS]

  well from what I can tell it's funny they don't play it too close to this and [TS]

  i think im just talked about it in public a bit too is they're [TS]

  experimenting that I mean this is this is kind of the Twitter model is 25 years [TS]

  before they ever started doing advertising or doing anything with money [TS]

  and you know these are the same as the same folks behind that essentially it's [TS]

  the same folks and their their funding it i think as a key we don't know what's [TS]

  gonna happen next nobody does this is the time to noodle and we're gonna blow [TS]

  some money on new link but they're trying to land the high end [TS]

  of the spectrum which is yet another weather is great for readers things how [TS]

  it works out publications and investors you know to be determined but they're [TS]

  paying for content internally I mean they made a blogging platform so this [TS]

  thing is confusing house medium used to be one thing when it launched it was [TS]

  like a place where people who were invited could use a new century blogging [TS]

  platform that has a really great editor editing interface to post essays and [TS]

  stuff right that was when it launched as in you have to be invited in it was a [TS]

  little rudimentary but it was very attractive way to rate then it became [TS]

  well more people are being invited then it became anyone now can go sign up with [TS]

  Twitter or via Twitter account authenticate themselves and post [TS]

  whatever they want to medium and so it's a blogging platform right and you can [TS]

  export all your stuff in a format you can bring somewhere else but you know [TS]

  that you own your words a non-exclusive license no outs but now its expanded a [TS]

  several months ago they started hiring editors and they have they assign our [TS]

  articles they hired on my friend Matt Bors editorial cartoonist is there on [TS]

  staff guy and he runs all his stuff first areas to original work for them [TS]

  he's contracted people like rich Stevens and Tom tomorrow and so forth to do [TS]

  original and reprint work on the site so now they're an internal operations [TS]

  cartoons and long-form journalism and other stuff with editors and in the [TS]

  third thing is what they're doing with me and a few other publications where [TS]

  they're subsidizing content in the interest of us creating new high quality [TS]

  stuff that meets no good stringent editorial requirements but they don't [TS]

  have to pay for our editorial operations they don't build themselves they're just [TS]

  paying a fee and we're posting stuff and we're and we're seeing what happens so I [TS]

  think it's a great multi tier experiment and they keep improving the editing [TS]

  experience you like I have worked with a lot of content management systems CMS is [TS]

  over the air and they're all lawful and median is the best here must have ever [TS]

  worked with its not very flexible in that you're a sort of like Apple like [TS]

  medium a lot in common you know a lot of choices but the choices are generally [TS]

  good if you don't like your stock [TS]

  but generally like him so let me know when it launched the very few things you [TS]

  can do in keno but it was hard to make a bad presentation in Keynote like a truly [TS]

  ugly PowerPoint presentation the default setting up our phone is ugly and bad the [TS]

  default setting aquino is attractive in reasonable but it's still hard to [TS]

  communicate to work in Keynote like you do anywhere so mediums default is very [TS]

  nicely presented very straightforward minimal formatting and it's a delightful [TS]

  distraction free place to write as well as a writer I don't like writing in 30 [TS]

  mins Iranian BBEdit mostly and medium is the closest thing to writing and kind of [TS]

  a stripped down at her as you can get but you can throw images and you can do [TS]

  limited formatting so that's kind of the thing is they've built a really great [TS]

  CMS in which the backend rating administration is very very very close [TS]

  to what the front end is when you switch from editing to publishing the [TS]

  differences really tiny and that's kind of awesome it's very WYSIWYG very direct [TS]

  and that is huge its own self and then they're trying all these models to see [TS]

  what gets people to read and then I see you at some point you know they will [TS]

  figure out what it is do they put ads on like the decks are really unobtrusive [TS]

  effective but don't feel like crazy banner advertising or do they go to a [TS]

  subscription model or do they don't know what to do but I i'm glad that there is [TS]

  some real money in 'cause newspapers are known to the conventional journalism [TS]

  sources are really experimenting in this radical away with what the future of a [TS]

  reading experiences I mean this is almost a natural outgrowth of what [TS]

  markers ideas have been with Instapaper and with other regulators services about [TS]

  you know what what people want a real crafted on nonsense and medium is that [TS]

  it's no craft no ads and very very straightforward reading in every [TS]

  platform you're gonna lose everybody's home lose if if your ideas what does [TS]

  everybody want to read online what can we make that everybody is going to want [TS]

  to read because no not going to do it and if you want to say well what is [TS]

  most whether most people gonna wanna read well then you're going to end up [TS]

  with some crap BuzzFeed right but what are what is an untapped or under under [TS]

  underserved market for what some people want to read online chats you know about [TS]

  you know good stuff but Jake what's the new yorker be like if the new yorker [TS]

  didn't have its legacy don't have the same quality of rating I mean I don't [TS]

  want to promote medium as being the new yorker but that you know they're more on [TS]

  that and do things and people will play the New Yorker is not really ever been a [TS]

  very profitable publication have heard was on its own it wasn't and then [TS]

  communists are subsidized into four ways for years I think it actually has made [TS]

  money for a while [TS]

  partly because by reducing expenses like everybody else but but i dont the New [TS]

  Yorker the New Yorker is not like this great engineer newspapers used to make [TS]

  25 to 35 percent profit we talked about last time a huge profit margins The New [TS]

  Yorker is probably made you know one percent profit over its hundred ninety [TS]

  years of existence so that harkens back to the lake don't do really great most [TS]

  of the time really great journalism really interesting stuff that you read [TS]

  is not massively profitable but it should pay everyone involved so the new [TS]

  yorker may not return money to investors but everyone involved indicates that [TS]

  reporters get paid well the staff the editors you know what did you say [TS]

  whether it's like the heritage of the new yorker what did you just say [TS]

  something about like you said it was perfect it was the way that the New [TS]

  Yorker has such a great legacy I don't know I don't even know that's how [TS]

  they've built on that and you know and you know the new yorker still looks like [TS]

  the new york oh yeah and I mean that's the thing is they are doing what they [TS]

  called digital replica publisher in this you know this gets us into a different [TS]

  issues will call back to the magazine so about your 97 or 98 percent of the [TS]

  funding is [TS]

  net revenues coming from subscriptions or it comes from and there's a very [TS]

  short position I bring up the new yorker because in this case and the whole new [TS]

  standard Apple newsstand thing is that the new yorker and a lot of other paper [TS]

  publications because of how newspaper and magazine auditing is done for [TS]

  circulation they do a digital replica which is the kind of Adobe or other [TS]

  loaded interface right that's that's again that's what brought Marco into [TS]

  making the magazine the first place was 780 megabyte downloads of the new yorker [TS]

  for an issue on the iPad but they have to produce something that's very similar [TS]

  in form to the print issue to get auditing at the advertising and that's [TS]

  the model even though they're selling subscriptions that you only so big on a [TS]

  couple months ago they put to this report which they showed some of the [TS]

  numbers from the audited circulation the digital replica and in print circulation [TS]

  of various publications including the top 10 in your so forth and it turns out [TS]

  they don't have very many subscriptions I mean the record because a million [TS]

  print subscriptions and $100,000 only replica subscriptions and that's not a [TS]

  lot and you are most welcome the news then they come from the New Yorker's [TS]

  website where they could come from another app so I was already a print [TS]

  subscriber yet you can you get a free rate your print subscriber lot of [TS]

  publications you're not going to do stances subscribe so Apple had started [TS]

  the newsstand conceivably as a way to take some of the really huge amounts of [TS]

  money spent on periodicals bring it in house there take the 30% cut and save [TS]

  the industry because they were going to make it easy for people to subscribe [TS]

  losses farmers will come back marking would be cheaper and we were thirty [TS]

  percent because Apple is handling all this and it was a much stick your [TS]

  experience and blah blah that's obviously turned out not to be true but [TS]

  think it's think it's clear that Apple's not the savior of the book industry or [TS]

  the periodical industry and it's led to you know sort of where they are today [TS]

  with newsstand [TS]

  the magazine is actually one of the more popular publications and we should [TS]

  induce today we should buy top we show up in the top grossing list sometimes [TS]

  very close to the top and we should not if the other publications are doing as [TS]

  well as they should in selling on newsstands as their primary place for [TS]

  the digital subscriptions to purchase I say I still think and I think this is [TS]

  one of those like sort of its meta analysis but I think it's sort of under [TS]

  represented is on the day the original iPad was introduced at that event and it [TS]

  kind of garnered a lease in some quarters especially in the more [TS]

  mainstream I think that you know I certainly got it I i really was pressed [TS]

  by the original iPad and I think a lot of other tack sort of public or at least [TS]

  the people who get what Apple does very impressive right off the bat but the [TS]

  collective response in the mainstream media was sort of it's just a big part [TS]

  of that was definitely because leading up to the announcement on everybody knew [TS]

  was going to be a tablet right there was four months in advance there was Apple's [TS]

  working on a tablet working on the tablet and then the day before the event [TS]

  everybody knew where it thought they knew everybody was pretty darn sure that [TS]

  what this event was for it was this tablet tablet but part of that was that [TS]

  it was also widely predicted that the tablet was going to save the publishing [TS]

  industry save the newspaper and magazine issue you know he's going to do for [TS]

  newspapers and magazines what the iPod did for news and I know that in [TS]

  hindsight lots and lots of music executive still say they still think [TS]

  that you know they would be better off without it because you know the revenues [TS]

  are still lower than they were at the peak of the CD [TS]

  hero but that you know I think rational analysis will tell you that the CD era [TS]

  was an anomaly because they you know right up until now Napster they were [TS]

  charging people seventeen eighteen dollars four hits CD and people were [TS]

  buying them just to get like the two songs that they wanted oh well there's [TS]

  also a creeper CDs were repurchased oh yes yes yes yes [TS]

  global right when people all those casualties were thrown out the tapes you [TS]

  know for me you know I'm young enough their original musical excellence [TS]

  cassette tapes and I bought three bottles lot of stuff on CD [TS]

  you know I remember you know for me in this is totally true I remember thinking [TS]

  as you know when I was in college [TS]

  significant part of my net worth was my CDs and I didn't have used CD collection [TS]

  I had I don't know maybe 100 to 200 estimated somewhere between 100 and 200 [TS]

  compact discs but you could resell them right you can you know it was a huge [TS]

  thing in the nineties where do you go to a used CD shop and you could resell the [TS]

  you could sell them for roughly 10 bucks you know give or take depending on what [TS]

  it was you know five to 10 bucks if it was in good shape so if I had a hundred [TS]

  CDs I could if I needed the money I could go and sell them and you know walk [TS]

  out of the store with $1500 right and that was actually a huge amount of my [TS]

  net worth I had had a checking account of my parents occasionally put some [TS]

  money into I had a Mac LLC that you know by the time I was you know my third or [TS]

  fourth year of college at greatly did you know depreciated in value and I had [TS]

  my CDs you know and I had a stereo system to play them on that's really all [TS]

  I had that if I really needed money that's all I had to to to sell but I you [TS]

  know the thing that was probably worth the most by the time I graduated where [TS]

  the CDs which is crazy if you think about there's no rational and irrational [TS]

  world a 22 year old who likes to listen to music shouldn't have to [TS]

  have you know to $3,000 tied up in their music collection ridiculous but that's [TS]

  what they want to do anyway [TS]

  music executives today will argue some will argue that Apple you know that if [TS]

  it hadn't been for those jerks at Apple they've somehow come up with something [TS]

  that would have kept the the golden era going but I think rational people would [TS]

  agree Apple did save them from a world where everything had gone free and this [TS]

  is a receipt with cable TV too is like the cable industry that thing that [TS]

  freaks him out the most is unbundling because nobody wants all those channels [TS]

  nobody wants to be $1 4050 shells they want to pay twenty thirty dollars for [TS]

  like seven channels but anyway there was this undercurrent and I mean it was [TS]

  literally you know there were people talking about it before they let us into [TS]

  the event you know I was there you know the other press people then that was [TS]

  widely talked about it what are they going to do it you know I wonder if are [TS]

  you know people who worked for newspapers and stuff were wondering you [TS]

  know where it is my paper gonna get involved with this whatever and when you [TS]

  know the event came and finished without any kind of announcement of anything [TS]

  like it no new newspaper I mean I guess they had the the New York Times app [TS]

  right was demoed at the event but they were like we were like we it's an IHOP [TS]

  though it's not a feeling like it's not a fan and I think that fueled the nav [TS]

  response to the iPad because these you know from people who work at these [TS]

  publications who are hoping that Apple they they kind of went into it with this [TS]

  perspective of house Apple gonna save my publication I'm worried about my job and [TS]

  the event came and went with no no no word about it and and it I think it [TS]

  fueled that initial poor response to the iPad because they were so you know and [TS]

  it's only natural if you know if you're worried about the future of your own job [TS]

  and your own industry that's you know and it still does the case today if [TS]

  you're you know somebody who's especially if you're a little bit older [TS]

  and more established already established in you thought even just a few years ago [TS]

  that you know you had a career for the rest of your working years [TS]

  it's not just that you know that your publications gonna go under and you have [TS]

  to go to some other publication the worry is that if the industry you know [TS]

  shrivels there you know there won't be anybody else to go to [TS]

  yes not it's not irrational because there's I mean this is the problem the [TS]

  disruption problem is when you have these huge changes in the economy in the [TS]

  past I would say pre digital there's still the issue of moving atoms around [TS]

  so you figure out a new way to make atomic thing better like this process [TS]

  shaves eighty percent of the cost off people were still pay used to pay the [TS]

  same like you didn't suck all the money out of the system will usually did as [TS]

  you sucked some of the money into a new segment of industry new companies the [TS]

  old ones might collapse and you have bankruptcies and stuff like that but all [TS]

  the major go away right [TS]

  the publishing industry disruption is that because because I think bad [TS]

  decisions and bad ways of thinking the nineteen nineties that everything should [TS]

  be that this isthat misreading of store-brand hear it all the time is [TS]

  Stewart Brand said information wants to be free he was not this is that libres [TS]

  vs gratis libre versus freedom of thought right here is versus free as in [TS]

  freedom yeah and so his statement if you read it more carefully in context was [TS]

  that you should be able to have access to information not that you shouldn't [TS]

  pay for it i mean a course he was he was advocating more availability of [TS]

  information at no cost but also that what the availability of information in [TS]

  general and he is a publisher resold information he wasn't giving it away so [TS]

  I don't know why this infected things but I don't think it was people buy into [TS]

  I think the publishing industry simply did not understand the internet thought [TS]

  it was a fair because they've gone through video taxed in whatever you know [TS]

  the executive [TS]

  all these things are like the internet a lot more people but it's ultimately [TS]

  there's no money there no one's gonna care and its gonna come and go so we'll [TS]

  put some time money into it there are people who love for thought like doctors [TS]

  at a spot called news and comics a few years ago [TS]

  he was one of the voices in the wilderness did some smart things but i [TS]

  think i dont wanna say he was advocating walls in the nineteen nineties you know [TS]

  it was not that we should all be paying for all the journalism out there is a [TS]

  publisher who has a publication I want you to pay I understand there are [TS]

  different philosophies in ads can support but like 95% of the money from [TS]

  advertising locked up in these Kwasi local monopolies publishing some [TS]

  national publishing markets where the only venue where advertisers could reach [TS]

  people in print were through these very specific ways that had extremely high [TS]

  inflated high-profit methods that got sucked totally out it wasn't replaced [TS]

  with much rate online advertising is a huge industry but it's so dispersed it [TS]

  so spread so thin that even though its many tens of billions of dollars a year [TS]

  now it didn't go back to the previous high mark eg keepers but but advertisers [TS]

  have found much more efficiency rate so the efficiency and the disbursement the [TS]

  distribution of people's attention at the same time just such summit many [TS]

  others no clear path for how to fund but was funded for you know hundred-plus [TS]

  years ago that journalism can exist in the same form because the advertising [TS]

  money just simply isn't coming back at that intensity per read her and the [TS]

  subscription model is still developing whether people are willing to pay enough [TS]

  and I'm the magazine is ongoing experiment I don't think of it as a [TS]

  successful business I'll be honest is a very interesting thing for me to do as [TS]

  an entrepreneur but I think of it as an ongoing experiment in how people read [TS]

  and what they're willing to pay for and I feel like I'm on the front lines of [TS]

  the cutting edge of understanding that because we're trying to do something [TS]

  very independent that's new that's a very much of the internet born digital [TS]

  and yet we're looking to this old model of something so well and this ties this [TS]

  relates right back to what we were talking about earlier in the show where [TS]

  you know let's call it clicked right [TS]

  empty garbage has no lasting value but generates a lot of [TS]

  of traffic you know newspapers and magazines aren't even historically done [TS]

  an incentive that there's always some fluff right there you know I like comics [TS]

  I love that I used to love the comic side when I was a daily newspaper reader [TS]

  love the comics page but let's face it that's not serious that's not what [TS]

  people talk about newspapers is serious institutions [TS]

  you know the comics page is not it you know the New York Times famously does [TS]

  not have a comics page you know there's this society pages you know a lot of [TS]

  newspapers have gossip columns stuff like that the thing is cuz it was all [TS]

  bundled in you had to buy either you are a subscriber who got the whole thing [TS]

  every day where you bought a single copy every day you bought the whole thing and [TS]

  so the fact that expensive investigative journalism something where you put a [TS]

  team of two reporters to investigate whether the mayor's office has been [TS]

  taking illegal contributions from construction company in a sort of thing [TS]

  that local newspapers are really the only institution that can uncover that [TS]

  sort of thing [TS]

  the sports scores for the high schools are in that was a huge reason the people [TS]

  at one point right right and so you know there might be a lot more people who [TS]

  checked the scores on sports page then who read the city hall reporters daily [TS]

  filings but you know it was you know it was all of the bundle and it wasn't it [TS]

  wouldn't matter if that City Hall reporting costs more than you know [TS]

  paying an intern to to type the high school basketball scores as they came in [TS]

  you know it was just considered part of the institution whereas now with this [TS]

  page 3 model where you can see what's making the money just across the whole [TS]

  thing and and steers the institution in the direction of where the Patriots are [TS]

  coming in everything becomes vertical in this market rate is an incredibly crass [TS]

  pageview acquiring like lowest-common-denominator period stuff [TS]

  is all one vertical at all [TS]

  Business Insider for business news at all p.m. post for sort of political [TS]

  gossip it's all BuzzFeed for just nonsense right where you know or even [TS]

  though I can haz hamburger hamburger which is never was never intended [TS]

  pretend to be news or anything like that they're all these verticals for that [TS]

  kind of common denominator that used to help justify or or boy up the profits at [TS]

  the news of vertical for comics right there are different comic safety of all [TS]

  these web comics artists many of them making her or even a very good living [TS]

  the huge range of people there who they would previously have to be in a paper [TS]

  in syndicated in most money would go to the newspaper this indicates they make [TS]

  it directly right to have them to then you have this investigative part of the [TS]

  features partly investigated port the sports part all verticals the trouble is [TS]

  the long form investigative part doesn't really pay like you can't hope all cars [TS]

  just sold or sort of Kwasi acquire booze NSFW Corp his publication into Pando [TS]

  daily in like you know we all unite and will have different feelings up into a [TS]

  daily and its kinda in bed with its investors in terms of like writing about [TS]

  companies that funded it whatever so there's that whole thing but W i [TS]

  subscribe to his very interesting good publication and it was essentially the [TS]

  investigative arm of the newspaper or magazine here and he's really long super [TS]

  in-depth features and they paid people fairly well for their staff they ran [TS]

  three million dollars and they could not think they had several thousand [TS]

  subscribers by the end which is nothing in terms of being able to produce the [TS]

  revenue you need for the investors investing in you so don't say that you [TS]

  can any of what I'm doing I still modest numbers describes room during a [TS]

  sustainable and I'm trying to branch out into different publishing methods they [TS]

  feel like the newsstand is not viable as it was brand new books and other things [TS]

  but it's that in the past each part with subsidized the other and maybe you would [TS]

  do this incredible investigative piece and newsweek maritime in time have the [TS]

  cover story by Steven Brill about medical bills [TS]

  yes yes so time could have sold I don't know if this is true but I'm could [TS]

  actually sold a million copies on the newsstand more because this was a big [TS]

  you know this is that kind of thing that gets up much buzz actually used to drive [TS]

  newsstand sales they go back to the prices they were print more copies so [TS]

  you could come out with a great newspaper story or great magazine story [TS]

  and actually route recoup some of the expense sometimes by selling more copies [TS]

  just know that now a million to 10 million extra page views might be tens [TS]

  of thousands of dollars is not hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars [TS]

  there's a mismatch now between what used to all be grouped as like one [TS]

  publication and all these different verticals each of which may not be [TS]

  sustainable separately and maybe they have to get squeezed back together and [TS]

  that's why does he does the high-end features and stuff to do in and the [TS]

  lowbrow which is the million other billion pagey things they seem to be [TS]

  trying to two tigers back together to glue them together to make both ends [TS]

  work that's come back to that wanted to ask you a few questions about a few more [TS]

  questions about the newsstand magazine speaking of which I'm gonna take a break [TS]

  here doing I had read but I also absolutely I must do a nephew us to [TS]

  follow up from last week's show with with folks where I was talking about [TS]

  apples bunny suit the one where they torched guide the Intel guy in a bunny [TS]

  suit I said it was for the g5 [TS]

  to not John Siracusa very plainly corrected me it was that was from the G [TS]

  three PowerMax which were so far so all that appealing to the adam has shown [TS]

  that but it was actually when Apple is still building beige beige boxes from [TS]

  1998 so I guess the the candy-colored IMAX route but the equivalent industrial [TS]

  design PowerMax weren't a really old what's-his-name dreyfus was the narrator [TS]

  let me take a break and tell you that another great returns sponsored to the [TS]

  show our friends at igloo igloo you'll remember this they give you an Internet [TS]

  they'll actually like you can share content quickly with built-in apps [TS]

  they've got blogs counters file-sharing forums twitter-like microblogs wikis [TS]

  right so if you've ever thought would be great if we had like our group our team [TS]

  our company if we had our own little private Twitter something where we could [TS]

  just post things like links and little short things but keep it private it's [TS]

  just for us if you can give you that everything is social you can comment on [TS]

  any type of any type of comment in that thang comment on calendar items comment [TS]

  on files are uploaded you can add a dimension each other you know your [TS]

  co-workers and colleagues and you can follow content for updates and used tags [TS]

  to group things the way you work so you can tag you know an event in a file and [TS]

  have them grouped together by that tag of another different discrete items you [TS]

  can add rooms like little mini lose so if you're in a bigger organization you [TS]

  can have them [TS]

  primary for the whole organization company and many clues for each of the [TS]

  teams that they come very easy the whole thing as drag and drop and it features [TS]

  responsive design everything looks great on the phone on tablets are you know [TS]

  thirty in sentiment displays and it looks good too they've got beautiful [TS]

  funds from type kit so you've got the Adobe Type Library right at your finger [TS]

  prints for customizing and designing they have enterprise-grade security and [TS]

  start using it right away and this is the best thing I love this this is such [TS]

  a great thing about it but i think is fueling their success is their their [TS]

  pricing free for use with up to 10 people in your igloo grows then you pay [TS]

  $12 a person each month so for big companies they charge money per person [TS]

  but even if you're a huge organization you can try it for free just install it [TS]

  try it use it with up to 10 people to see if it's going to suit your needs if [TS]

  if it's as good as as I'm telling you that it really is for free CEO need to [TS]

  get permission there's nothing no no kind of credit card on file to get [TS]

  started to sign up [TS]

  user for free and when you see how good it is then you can start pain where do [TS]

  you go to find out more easy [TS]

  glue software dot com slash the talk show and that'll let you know you came [TS]

  from the show [TS]

  igloo software dot com slash the talk show so lets try to figure out what the [TS]

  hell is going on with with newsstand I have some ideas so [TS]

  I guess affectively newsstand is what a lot of people in terms of a bowl it's [TS]

  what what what I think everybody was hoping for the first day the iPad was [TS]

  announced which is here is our meaning Apple's solution to how publishers can [TS]

  take advantage of this platform iOS and iTunes Store where people are spending [TS]

  money right i mean that's the goal it's apples solution to publishers who want [TS]

  to make money from iOS users yeah and they they special case i mean that's [TS]

  kinda programmers is they said ok you know you still think we're not making a [TS]

  delivery format for your not like a Kindle where you make a movie or or [TS]

  we're not like I books where you make you know and ePub file right now we're [TS]

  more sophisticated like we want you to take advantage of this platform and that [TS]

  was you know I think publishers like ok you know you're giving us a showcase and [TS]

  we have to investments anyway we don't want to just publishing pubs and give us [TS]

  control we want to do new things so it seemed like a reasonable deal and they [TS]

  were like ok [TS]

  initial deal was an evil you linked to Mr Coaker pins that say a few months ago [TS]

  little October in Iowa 7 the final straw for newsstand and he runs it does I'm [TS]

  repeat everything cuz you should read this great article everyone should I [TS]

  took it to heart but there were like seven he's at least seven unique [TS]

  behaviors that publishers were given in the newsstand initially and one of them [TS]

  was you can change the cover of the issue you can update your screen [TS]

  captures and iTunes every issue not just with new dot releases a nap you the [TS]

  special place you know you can do either of you could download in the background [TS]

  there all these things that you could do that were publication oriented lake so [TS]

  that people using iPad or iPhone with look at the newsstand listing was always [TS]

  front center where you can move the fake folder somewhere but you couldn't hide [TS]

  inside another folder it showed little tiny tiny tiny icons which in retina or [TS]

  not too bad [TS]

  of the publication in the coverage would change so you know and had issue had [TS]

  background downloads [TS]

  as you could you know if your publication was relatively big nothing's [TS]

  worse like let's say you know whatever the reason doesn't say whether it's a [TS]

  good idea but if you're if he'd issue is a hundred megabytes which is not that [TS]

  uncommon but some publications and if it's really truly photographic heavy [TS]

  maybe it has to be but either way nothing is worse than seeing how to read [TS]

  the new copy of National Geographic and you tap the thing and download and if [TS]

  you're out and about out of the house not on wifi you know you may not even be [TS]

  able to get it or if you do you might risk going over you know your data limit [TS]

  so how was I think mike's the sort of thing so it if you could download in the [TS]

  background was a huge win and the only way you could do it was to be a [TS]

  newsstand for a while or to Lila seven that's what I mean I you know based on [TS]

  the way that Apple is talking to book publishers ahead of time it's clear they [TS]

  talked till tons of periodical publishers got them started made sure [TS]

  that people their magazines were on board and you know they told him a 30% [TS]

  cut thing I'm sure but but there were plenty of stuff available for the iPad [TS]

  pretty quickly from major magazines and newspapers and I'm sure they listen [TS]

  Apple does listens and people think Apple does not listen to its customers [TS]

  or partners it listens it's a sort of like you know you pray to God is no me [TS]

  say yes right is always listening that's the very doubtful but the newsstand was [TS]

  looked to me like it was a a bunch of things where they had actually listen [TS]

  consulted and come up with something that was intended to benefit both sides [TS]

  and my take is that it clearly has not worked out for Apple and publishers have [TS]

  clearly not walked away from it but walked back from in a way that Apple is [TS]

  not getting the kind of return it wants from it because Apple has not I would [TS]

  say improved the newsstand it's made its utility as a specific destination worse [TS]

  and I was seven it's particularly bad it sort of ignored it's kind of like let's [TS]

  just forget about it and it's widely complained about a seat on Twitter I see [TS]

  it in my email from during fireball readers widely complained about [TS]

  is something that you can't hide you know that there's an awful lot of people [TS]

  who don't have anything in there newsstand and just you know I don't say [TS]

  obsessive-compulsive but just you know fussy enough you know it does nothing [TS]

  wrong with that being fussy and wanting to have your homescreens arranged just [TS]

  so right that's sort of the mindset that attracts people to iOS in the first [TS]

  place that you care about details so yeah I've got at the end you know my [TS]

  first two homes granger are organized just the way I want them and then pretty [TS]

  much screens to through whatever or 334 whatever are just a junk drawer of apps [TS]

  that I searched for it I need them but I can totally understand the mindset of [TS]

  someone who just want one or two screens of just the things they use and want [TS]

  some organized just so and it just bothers these people that you can't get [TS]

  rid of their right to die I see even more people talking about why I wish I [TS]

  could get rid of newsstand completely then talking about anything that [TS]

  actually in which is a problem in nice the change of Iowa seven so part of it [TS]

  is you can hide the newsstand icon now you can throw it away you can't believe [TS]

  a lot of them but they were seven is the newsstand was deemphasized importance [TS]

  you can put inside the folder you no longer see the tiny tiny icons which had [TS]

  more of a cue for people then I realized based on what I hear from readers they [TS]

  forget because they don't see the tiny icon changes the brain is an amazing [TS]

  thing if you subscribe to publications and I was 6 your every time you fired up [TS]

  its on your home screen of your second screen but you know you you look and you [TS]

  go oh that's different your brain knows that even the other can't even make out [TS]

  the detail at you know 200 pixels tall you know it's different and you top or [TS]

  there's a blue dot or whatever there's some indication I was seven that's gone [TS]

  so people interested are telling me they don't even notice the issues changed I [TS]

  was seven Notifications as to other publications but I'm only every other [TS]

  week people who save it and then you can hide entirely which is everyone's which [TS]

  is fine [TS]

  some people want to do that Apple wanted them to do that but it also is that [TS]

  thing of lake [TS]

  be emphasizing its importance to Apple the fact you can hide it is a user [TS]

  requests it's great they're doing it because people don't want to use it [TS]

  completed now but it also shows that it's not important enough to Apple to [TS]

  irritate people by making it stay on the home screen so it's sort of like the [TS]

  congress I get it it's it's a problematic design on both ends because [TS]

  if you don't use it you know you have to do something to get rid of it and now [TS]

  they've added feature you can but then if you do like if say the magazine is [TS]

  one of your favorite apps or if you read the New York Times app which is a news [TS]

  stand up every day if that's how you start your day every day three New York [TS]

  Time's Up you can't you know you can't put that app icon on your home screen or [TS]

  in your dog has to be permanently it's enforced that it's one level deep in and [TS]

  it's even worse in my opinion on iOS because it's such a hot you know [TS]

  conceptually the design is so flat it's like it's really and it's one of the [TS]

  strengths i think is one of the reasons I S has proven to be so popular with the [TS]

  general public is that there is no hierarchy by the fall right or I guess [TS]

  there is a guess they do actually put a folder in there I think they changed at [TS]

  some point there is at least one folder I get a brand new factory fresh OS [TS]

  install but it's certainly deemphasized an end you know i think thats the [TS]

  strength of violence because I think hierarchy is a huge problem even one [TS]

  level of hierarchy is a huge problem for most people because if they don't see it [TS]

  it's not there [TS]

  yeah it's it's way out of sight out of mind is true in people's attention is [TS]

  very scarce they have a lot of things they can do in once you start routinely [TS]

  forgetting about something and not being reminded about it then it's an issue now [TS]

  you know I understand so I should I should point out like this I don't wanna [TS]

  Celica bitching and moaning about 80 people are describing my publication cry [TS]

  for me it's more like I know we're doing good work I know I i rate for economist [TS]

  away from the publications of people contributing are doing good right for [TS]

  other publications that people think of us having a high degree of quality I [TS]

  know what we're doing is good work and it's always frustrating when you doing [TS]

  good work in you feel like you can't get an audience that is a marketing issue [TS]

  that is separate and that's my own problem right but when I feel like the [TS]

  people who so there's a difference for people who I can't find it don't care [TS]

  about the magazine or unsubscribe because they've lost interest in the [TS]

  content that is one category rape the category that I'm having a problem with [TS]

  is the people actually like the magazine tell me they like it and they are [TS]

  emailing me to say you know because I forget it exists because it was so bad [TS]

  lets just fell out our bottom line if you could flip a switch and turn the [TS]

  magazine from a news stand up to a non used and abused flip that switch totally [TS]

  totally you can thats the thing and I don't know this you can't and i met [TS]

  that's under say you forever and ever you won't be able to but as it stands [TS]

  today you can't there is no thing you can go to in iTunes Connect and say take [TS]

  that you know my apt the magazine which is now a news stand up and make it a [TS]

  regular at even know all the things that you get from newsstands you could do you [TS]

  know like background downloads and stuff like this there's a little bit of [TS]

  recoding us as a couple things that are used the new standards I recollect that [TS]

  you have to include the background download it a different method I can use [TS]

  now to Marco I was just blogging about this we Marco said the same thing here [TS]

  in a blog post a market order it today I wouldn't put in the new standard he's [TS]

  and he's right I don't fault him for cause it made perfect sense at the time [TS]

  of course and it got a lot of attention being on the newsstand but Mark opinion [TS]

  he wrote in his entreaties like they are a platform his firm and they are not [TS]

  recommending using the newsstand and I believe that I could actually [TS]

  reformulate the app resubmitted but I would lose 100 percent of the [TS]

  subscribers I does not like a chance for the subscribers so I mean the ideal case [TS]

  for me is that they would let users choose not enforce the Sun users they [TS]

  would let users choose to break open [TS]

  the newsstand and say either don't use a newsstand put all the apps on my home [TS]

  screen or let me drag stuff out of the newsstand and but still gives me the [TS]

  ability to change covers like that's the ideal thing is give me the Apple wanted [TS]

  to give publishers and users that sense of timeliness this is something new [TS]

  the cover changes that was part of the design and it's part of the one thing I [TS]

  really appealing part of the design even though you're outside of me in the loop [TS]

  in a few other people a lot of colleges to stake their new status description [TS]

  again because of this digital replica issue and they slap it on there with [TS]

  tape that's a new negative one point size so that's a very appealing thing [TS]

  being able to show a new car but think about this I think even the name [TS]

  newsstand itself shows that the metaphors a bit broken right so is where [TS]

  you go to pick right but no but think about what is the newsstand the [TS]

  newsstand is r you go and choose from whole bunch of things most of the stuff [TS]

  on in standard stuff that you've never read you know like when you go to a [TS]

  real-life newsstand [TS]

  how many how many of the magazines are ones that you've never even looked at a [TS]

  copy of most of them right and there's everything from celebrity gossip to [TS]

  sports to you know world affairs you you you know a newsstand is something like [TS]

  this store right the newsstand metaphor is should be there something in iTunes [TS]

  where you go to take a magazine to read not a place where you were magazines the [TS]

  ones that you've chosen to subscribe to show up in the real world when you [TS]

  subscribe to two magazines and a daily newspaper you don't go to the new [TS]

  standard get them they come to your house right there right there [TS]

  the magazine is stuffed right through the mail slot near door should be called [TS]

  the latest or or news or my subscriptions or something like that [TS]

  you're right the terminology is exactly the right I will say the fabulous [TS]

  fascinating about the newsstand when you go to the iTunes to see what their [TS]

  listing there is apparently there's a lot of market for scantily clad tattooed [TS]

  women in tattoo magazines I had no idea the num [TS]

  mer the sheer quantity of different titles in that market that show up among [TS]

  the top grossing newsstand house is fasting I guess it's like buying romance [TS]

  novels about mags because now they're hidden away that's the other advantage [TS]

  of this week they don't show up on your screen so if you try to buy magazines [TS]

  you're embarrassed about now they show up on the newsstand that the country is [TS]

  hidden so that's that's the little brown cover for but you know I just think that [TS]

  in some ways the metaphor you really just think about it like you know when [TS]

  you subscribe to a magazine a real you know paper magazine they do the most [TS]

  convenient thing that they can possibly thinking to do which is we will just [TS]

  mail it to you will just put it in the mail and it will show up [TS]

  us' postal carrier will literally put it through a slot in the door of your house [TS]

  and it'll just be there for you and newspapers do something just ever so [TS]

  slightly less can you tell newspaper here take my money and give me a copy of [TS]

  your paper newspaper everyday they say okay we'll take it from here and every [TS]

  day right outside your front door in the morning there will be there will be just [TS]

  walk right out your front door and there's your newspaper it's on your [TS]

  front porch which are your homescreen rate is 80 right there is making it the [TS]

  most convenient thing possible because and and it's it's they're not bothering [TS]

  these these are people you know this is what you've asked for this is only after [TS]

  you've given the money and said do this drop this off every day obviously he [TS]

  didn't want the newspaper and you feel like I live in an urban area there's [TS]

  local newspapers that you know the stuff you're at your front door with [TS]

  newspapers you didn't ask for but that's a different case i'm saying with these [TS]

  subscriptions through the iTunes Store they should make it as convenient as [TS]

  possible which to me is exactly what you said let you put it right on your home [TS]

  screen or even on your dock icons AUC no matter which homes greener [TS]

  really think that that just wasn't thought through and that the name itself [TS]

  used and really shows just help poorer poorly thought through them [TS]

  metaphors it's it's made sense at the time that every time I was browsing [TS]

  thing we started it wasn't [TS]

  it wasn't here's the stuff you want to read it was like here's your portal to [TS]

  the App Store listing of publications and then stuff will show up here and now [TS]

  it's you know now it's something else this this ties back to my contention [TS]

  based on the looking at where I know where I am cuz I know my numbers and I [TS]

  can look at the top grossing listen on iTunes for iPhone and iPad I can see [TS]

  what I said I can look at those numbers from the audited digital replica [TS]

  versions are people only subscribing to the digital version I can say is we [TS]

  talked about earlier that people are subscribing through a website or print [TS]

  subscribers can get web stuff for free typically and that's not counting the [TS]

  digital-only subscriptions audit returns but I can see people probably describing [TS]

  the website The Economist is probably not selling at most of its subscriptions [TS]

  through new standards I mostly through economist dot com people have multimodal [TS]

  access an Android whatever so I guess what this says the Apple didn't provide [TS]

  maybe a compelling enough as they lost interest in it off or more because it's [TS]

  it's babies and you may find it abhorrent and wonderful it works out [TS]

  really well if it's something you don't care about and they focus our attention [TS]

  more and stuff that works it's it can be retained its something that you like and [TS]

  you're like oh why haven't you made iPhoto actually good after this many [TS]

  years like why have you lost interest in that Apple will make money off it was an [TS]

  important to the quarter actually more newsstand [TS]

  I was seven show to me that it's there for the moment [TS]

  pushing off to the side and not getting rid of it because most publishers are [TS]

  doing is they're making free apps and the money for that is coming from [TS]

  outside Apple systems gets no benefit except in the desirability of their [TS]

  platform for people downloading and using the new york times or New York New [TS]

  Yorker or people or whatever there is those ups do not generate any return I [TS]

  mean this is no return of those just not generate a substantial return for Apple [TS]

  probably in the way they conceived of in I not enough to to garner their [TS]

  attention it is an adjunct the absurd adjunct to the entire magazine presents [TS]

  for a magazine as opposed to [TS]

  the new standing the central point through which people then maybe go out [TS]

  and read on the web too but they come in through that way and that's in that's [TS]

  life so I'm not you know I like like I'm not whining that Apple's lost focus on [TS]

  the Sun were like well damn this I thought it kind of worked okay and and [TS]

  it's not so this is part of why I'm going into all these different [TS]

  directions to a lot of different things going on but it's also true that you're [TS]

  not asking a lot of Apple right now it now so that that vague idea that I [TS]

  talked about back in 2010 when when a lot of people in newspapers and [TS]

  magazines kind of had this vague notion that Apple's going to unveil some sort [TS]

  of boil the ocean save the publishing industry thing was sort of thinking you [TS]

  know Apple's gonna do a lot of work and come up with something you know [TS]

  ingenious that's going to infuse [TS]

  infuse money into this industry that's hoping that Apple does a lot what year [TS]

  to what we're talking about here is just a relatively minor amount of attention [TS]

  to what's going on in used and whether it would be putting the work in to allow [TS]

  and newsstand app to go on on newsstands keep its subscribers or something like a [TS]

  setting in iOS that would allow a user to say you know use newsstand for [TS]

  newsday and apps and then you taught you know on off and if you turn it off then [TS]

  it would say you know a little extra planet or text news standouts will [TS]

  appear at the root level of your exactly in this is you know I hear from I hear [TS]

  from readers again I don't mean to sound this is like [TS]

  not extolling what I do feel it's funny cuz I always feel like the magazine [TS]

  something I'm here is like worker was my ritual dunkel and you know this is a [TS]

  case a cash deal no this is a buyout and so forth but I didn't make the apple of [TS]

  the app and so he talked about it with great affection talking about Marcos [TS]

  work and I sort of forgot I own it sometimes I don't think of myself as a [TS]

  developer but I do hear from you hear from readers regularly say you know I [TS]

  don't really buy into the newsstand the only periodical app that I have really I [TS]

  don't want the newsstand icon has dragged out my love you crack so it's [TS]

  like it but I also hear that I'll see people talking on Twitter about god [TS]

  dammit I only use the new york times are only used whatever why can't I just have [TS]

  that the option is now either hide your entire newsstand folder in a subfolder [TS]

  which is then you have to nest into to bring up a double tap to double pressed [TS]

  to find out if you used it recently or in I figured out this workaround that's [TS]

  just stupid work around I have a redirect see go to a web page of my site [TS]

  of putting the fact even you bookmarked this web page it's got an icon that you [TS]

  can make a web app on your home screen so you bookmark on your home screen and [TS]

  then you tap it loads the web page does the redirect to the app launches yup [TS]

  it's stupid but it works it gives you a tight hug your screen that when you tap [TS]

  it launches the app and a number to call thanks for doing that but you know it's [TS]

  like 75 people did that or something but I wanted to let people do it but it's [TS]

  that it's some level it's that easy and relays and apples infrastructure [TS]

  allowing us to present a new standouts to come out and like a regular apt and [TS]

  even if they disabled the cover change future maybe that's not an option like [TS]

  they would definitely make make the apps [TS]

  if they did that they would you whether you get the change in every issue or not [TS]

  I don't know but you have to conform to that shape that round square shape yes [TS]

  something will be done exactly something will be different cuz they wouldn't you [TS]

  know Johnny Ives like allow that on the screen like a bunch of different shapes [TS]

  and not after all the changes they made so so I i completely appreciate [TS]

  understand that and it's it's not like Apple's tryna do anything to anybody me [TS]

  or the new york times it's more like Dayton crack this and they're so good it [TS]

  cracking a lot of nuts in this one they didn't crack and so there they've kind [TS]

  of put it aside and maybe they'll come back to it later another cycle another [TS]

  thing that's occurred to me in this again is not asking a lot of Apple would [TS]

  be perhaps the best idea would be just abandon the newsstand [TS]

  you know do in iowa 7.2 or you know I don't know you know we're already in the [TS]

  works already in December so maybe it's an Iowa State but just say you know just [TS]

  get rid of it and that's in a polite thing to do don't even announce it it [TS]

  certainly know when they get rid of things you know they don't talk about it [TS]

  because it's sort of tacit Lee acknowledging a mistake just get rid of [TS]

  it and when you upgrade to iOS seven point to your new standards are just on [TS]

  your home screen will tell you the other thing that's interesting [TS]

  existing user or if you are an existing user newsstand just becomes a normal [TS]

  folder if you've got an existing installation and then you can open it up [TS]

  and drag them out and dragged back in so that it's still organized the way it was [TS]

  before you upgraded so there's no disorientation of where what happened my [TS]

  icon but just turn it just turned newsstand into a normal folder yeah I [TS]

  mean you soon as the other thing which drives people nuts which is you can't [TS]

  top its you get it to sue me out like you can with any folder so you when [TS]

  you're in newsstand even if you get there by securities route like you [TS]

  execute a player in a noose and how you can tap on the background and exit the [TS]

  folder and go back up a level which Dr seen so many people [TS]

  read about how many breaks the metaphor but okay so here's the thing that new [TS]

  state has taught me that I should say spring a subscription publication has [TS]

  taught me that separate from newsstand but sort of tightness is it's very [TS]

  interesting after having spent the last 10 years on sort of riding with blogs [TS]

  are daily sites are safe said update all the time [TS]

  having a cycle like this in dealing with subscribers who get fatigued like I know [TS]

  people get tired of reading a given site but its fasting to get email from and [TS]

  talk to people say the kind of ran out of steam and even when they say I really [TS]

  like what you're publishing I just don't have the time to keep up with it and [TS]

  like we're doing 5 articles that are 1,500 to 2,500 words every two weeks and [TS]

  I really like it I'm a bad example because I have a little time to read [TS]

  another working with writers but there's definitely reader fatigue you get and [TS]

  that's kind of where the one-two punches that cool 3d emphasizing newsstand makes [TS]

  it a little bit harder to keep existing subscribers makes it a little bit harder [TS]

  to get new ones to deal with the church is always going to turn and so it it [TS]

  makes the equation a little bit more difficult for me especially as [TS]

  independent publisher because i dont have a website that people are used to [TS]

  going to even though you can go to the dash magazine dorgan you can you get a [TS]

  subscription there you can read all the articles there it's a full website has [TS]

  been for nine months people mostly don't realize that which is fascinating to me [TS]

  but we don't have like half a website that people used to going to and this is [TS]

  the Iowa adjunct or alternative where for every other publication just about [TS]

  they have a website which is where the traffic and this is an upgrade from the [TS]

  mobile version of their site is a better thing so that's that's been interesting [TS]

  thing to wrestle with you and that's why launched a Kickstarter is we're doing a [TS]

  book because I need different modality I can't have everything be resting on [TS]

  subscriptions because subscriptions [TS]

  especially you know ninety-five percent of it being an apple cider have probably [TS]

  five percent subscribers coming from the web so need to reject her things so that [TS]

  all the revenue is in one pot to make the engine go I was working towards the [TS]

  Kickstarter I wasn't gonna let it slip always wanted that you had a Kickstarter [TS]

  before you had a Kickstarter that that didn't get off the ground [TS]

  ontological Kickstarter it was it was a Kickstarter campaign to read a book [TS]

  about how to run a Kickstarter campaign right and the special irony is it didn't [TS]

  find but you know what happens I kind of did everything wrong I started study [TS]

  Kickstarter not have been writing about it for a couple of years he's a good [TS]

  thing it's a good thing then because in your book would have been wrong thing to [TS]

  do I don't know what it would have said the book but but everything good that [TS]

  I'm doing my life came out of his failure which is that's my lemonade [TS]

  stand is high [TS]

  lemons avail things like 10 days into the Kickstarter I'm like oh I did this [TS]

  all wrong people gave me advice should have asked more ahead of time it funded [TS]

  about 10% of like it's not gonna find so I just canceled instead of having the [TS]

  ignominy of hitting the end not reaching that goal and launched the new [TS]

  structures and went to the xoxo Festival September 2012 lunch the podcast in [TS]

  December last year joined Marco at the magazine in October of last year and [TS]

  feel like I now and learn all the secrets but now I really have a better [TS]

  sense of what what makes sense to crowdfunding think you know I think this [TS]

  will be successful [TS]

  almost half way there here's the deal it's called the magazine the book [TS]

  reports obvious title how to not be so an imprint is easier one so it's pretty [TS]

  much it's the best of the first year of the magazine and you want to do it both [TS]

  as a print and e-book collection yeah that was the thing is I thought it [TS]

  didn't you know it could do an ebook very easily right that doesn't take a [TS]

  lot of time and effort and [TS]

  wouldn't actually pretty well design but you would get the full benefit because I [TS]

  be thinkin mostly about people reading in EPUB or mobi on a Kindle so so it'd [TS]

  be relatively simple fight so I thought you know we should stick in the sand [TS]

  like electronic periodical 10 we do a hardcover book that's designed like a [TS]

  magazine so we have we have the magazine style of design that we don't even do in [TS]

  the apt because the abdomen for simple reading we take advantage of the print [TS]

  medium and then we'll producer PDF and ePub mobi version of it as well [TS]

  all without DRM that damn DRAM read it wherever you want to put it on every [TS]

  device you own every computer [TS]

  device you own every computer [TS]

  but but i wanna do a hardcover books they be something special and there be a [TS]

  reason people be motivated to be part of the kicks are we there was a reason for [TS]

  it wasn't like a I can't afford to make any book it's like printing costs a lot [TS]

  of money so I need to pull together people to to make it happen when did you [TS]

  announce this I was recently just be years before Thanksgiving the time is a [TS]

  law office hoping to do early to be to be done before Thanksgiving and then [TS]

  everything always takes longer but I want to know that you know this really [TS]

  want to get this year so it launched on [TS]

  I don't know if it was it was too is a couple weeks ago it was on November 21st [TS]

  I think the same day they put out any issue number thirty of the magazines [TS]

  were past year in the magazine $48,000 Google yeah now as we record it is it [TS]

  twenty 2555 so just a hair under fifty percent but it was a lot I was a big [TS]

  push it first and I thought just watching it like the first 24 hours I [TS]

  thought it was going gangbusters I still think you're going to make it I thought [TS]

  I think I am the odds are good the thing that's interesting and its Kickstarter [TS]

  there's like three typical Kickstarter profiles I crafts one is the home I got [TS]

  it goes like resume like a straight line up until the end and that's like [TS]

  somebody asked for $100,000 to make a like the the watched turn your III your [TS]

  iPod square nano into a watch and ask for a hundred grand and within three [TS]

  days they have two million and those era in those building themselves because [TS]

  there's something appealing it's usually consumer products something super [TS]

  appealing about it or it's like a Veronica Mars where there's an enormity [TS]

  of an audience of tens of millions of people in a tiny fraction of that [TS]

  audience is constantly discovering it in spring and coming on seeing this kind of [TS]

  straight line up permit curves up in the tapers off to like a straight line [TS]

  that's one kind one is this one is like the does kind of badly badly badly and [TS]

  then suddenly they pull it off it goes boom to the top near the end they get a [TS]

  whole bunch of people minus the apparently since I've seen it before [TS]

  is actually much more typical is really huge first day or two then you have a [TS]

  nice gentle climb as you go along your cross 50% and then a nice huge spike at [TS]

  the end of the last couple days and that's what it in so the third one is [TS]

  that this is why daddy drinks curve I know that silly like so in my case 48 [TS]

  grand we raised $16,000 in 24 hours boom and a twenty-four hours is immediately [TS]

  tapered off people Salako it's gonna happen [TS]

  hit 33 percent they're fine I mean literally at that moment 24 hours it [TS]

  went to that slower taper and then so you know in [TS]

  the first day was 16 Grand the next 10 days next 14 it has been a thirteen days [TS]

  has been about six or seven thousand dollars which is much slower I'm so many [TS]

  people like me to come and just remind me before it's over my guy you had a [TS]

  slat [TS]

  you treated the other day that was something like the percentage of once [TS]

  you hit 50 percent your eyes are pretty goes like 90% people people done this [TS]

  week crunching on this easter chick look at like four different projects of [TS]

  different values of 40 to $50,000 one range or you know whatever seek a look [TS]

  at the things ok where am i and once you hit the sweet spot is once you've got [TS]

  half of your goals for me that's 24,000 at $40,000 $50,000 less project [TS]

  statistically once you reach the goal you are 97% likely or 97% of projects [TS]

  that reach half the goal go on to at least 100 percent if not more so it's a [TS]

  great stuff [TS]

  the thing about Kickstarter this fasting is it's it's forty percent of its 56 [TS]

  percent failure 56% of projects do not fund but of those 56% about a third get [TS]

  no pleasure hole somebody posts it they do not tell anyone about it nobody does [TS]

  it another third of the failed ones get like less than 20 percent of the funding [TS]

  so this is very narrow band where people get between 20 to 50% the funding and [TS]

  they can get all the way there but once you hit that magic will play it shows [TS]

  enough momentum that it's just a question of time and that curve most [TS]

  Kickstarter projects the average project when you take out the outliers like [TS]

  peddler Clifford the ones that superfund elevation doc most funded about a [TS]

  hundred and five percent to a hundred and ten percent of the goal [TS]

  because people come in a meeting they needed at the end of the cold I need [TS]

  already is my pledged $10 to make it happen or whatever so it's it's a it's a [TS]

  finely tuned our but I'm feeling happy about the reason I did it was like I [TS]

  like the stories we tell ray this is the whole thing like it's this isn't a [TS]

  money-making endeavor is to say I was going to come out to the you kinda [TS]

  hinted that a few minutes ago reuse that somehow bring it up as a money-making [TS]

  house gonna have a good you know that's not that it's a bad idea to do a great [TS]

  idea I think looking at it as a money making ideas not a good ol we had no I [TS]

  mean the diversification of the magazine from being only a subscription-based [TS]

  periodical the being something that produces content lots of different ways [TS]

  that's the that's the money making idea that I need revenue I want newsstand now [TS]

  is you know ninety five ninety percent of the revenue that comes in is directly [TS]

  from Apple with their 30 percent cut and I think that to be 25 to 30% alright can [TS]

  I take can I just put on my consulting editor for free I'm not gonna charge it [TS]

  right but I am going to tell you how to make more money from you what you do is [TS]

  you sell wine sponsorships lot per issue and there's a nice one full page ad from [TS]

  that issues that will cost that that that that would cost $50,000 [TS]

  I mean sure about putting advertising in the magazine yeah I don't have an [TS]

  objection so I guess I have a structural objection as opposed to say in Africa [TS]

  woman so there's there's a mission thing which is that it's been sold as [TS]

  something that has no ads and so is that from day one markers push that out I [TS]

  push that is the ideas there's no crushed there's no ads and I don't know [TS]

  how I think you can [TS]

  actually could but it takes is a threshold overcome the sale ok we said [TS]

  that now we're doing this other thing i know im not im not conscientiously [TS]

  opposed to advertising if it works especially that kind of model the [TS]

  sponsorship model like this is why I like the podcasting model is that yes [TS]

  you have ads on a podcast but it's much more in the motive is cooperative thing [TS]

  it doesn't feel like advertising the same way that horrible flash banner ads [TS]

  really think that at the listening experience [TS]

  bears that out where when you listen to arrest Real Radio even on FM it does [TS]

  seem to me like there's too many and when you listen to AM radio if you ever [TS]

  listened to like just you know just for shits and giggles and listen to the Rush [TS]

  Limbaugh's show there are so many ad breaks it is ridiculous [TS]

  the only show that I know of that it doesn't have that problem is the Howard [TS]

  Stern Show which does far fewer breaks but does really long breaks they put all [TS]

  the ads and one stretching our shows people listen to podcast is because they [TS]

  don't feel like ads and so I could see doing I loved I love how that works and [TS]

  people respond to it so having a sponsor for the magazine where it's like one [TS]

  quality things like this is a roadblock and so-and-so is sponsors issue here is [TS]

  an advertisement and we're gonna send you one email or god knows what we're [TS]

  gonna do that doesn't seem antithetical the problem I have structurally though [TS]

  is that subscribers are worth a ton of money as a subscriber is advertising [TS]

  typically to reach the audience of the scale that I have there's not enough [TS]

  money in the outside to make that worthwhile she I think I think the [TS]

  problem is convincing advertisers that it's not like buying an ad that's [TS]

  exactly what I did the math of you go to my website or blog [TS] I did the math the few weeks ago asking about why don't have ads the [TS]

  magazine I said it was the conventional model I would probably need as many as [TS]

  20 million page views a month to equal no I'm not saying you know what i mean [TS]

  that's really exciting I've got like [TS]

  250 articles I'm not gonna get there is no universal which I can do that right [TS]

  to get twenty million so so with the with the current rates are paid with the [TS]

  yield with some human story and that doesn't include includes commissions to [TS]

  help people with us include me having ahead step out sources so I need twenty [TS]

  million pageviews let's say roughly to reach what I'm getting from subscribers [TS]

  paying that sweetheart but one sponsor who is a supplement to who makes it [TS]

  impossible that's the extra revenue necessary to make the thing or whatever [TS]

  that's a different equations might be willing to pay a sizable amount of money [TS]

  to be exclusive and to reach some people are tasteful a podcast model that's [TS]

  what's available here and there but me do my third sponsor and its again [TS]

  old friend of the show longtime sponsor an event apart an Event Apart is an [TS]

  intensely education two day learning session at great conference for people [TS]

  who make websites and instead of being like a once a year thing where you have [TS]

  to put on your schedule book travel and stuff like that they effectively come to [TS]

  you they've got events next year in 2014 around North America there in San [TS]

  Francisco that's this month [TS]

  atlantis Seattle Boston San Diego washingtonDC and that I think that's [TS]

  just like the first half of the year in almost a monthly about [TS]

  go to the website find an event near you and you will not be disappointed [TS]

  an Event Apart was founded by Eric Meyer who I think easily you could say knows [TS]

  more about CSS and then anybody walking the face of the earth and Jefferies [TS]

  ailment longtime friend of the show and and one of the great proponents of web [TS]

  standards and the whole thing is dedicated to the proposition that the [TS]

  creators of great Web experiences deserve a great learning experience [TS]

  these guys have one of the best speaker lineups of any conference I've ever seen [TS]

  if you build websites and you've not been to an Event Apart you're really [TS]

  missing out and if you have been to an Event Apart you don't even have to [TS]

  listen to me because you know how good it wasn't sure you want to go back I've [TS]

  said it before too they even have great swag even just the stuff they give you [TS]

  that bad name badges last time I got cut our customers in the field notes just a [TS]

  great continent where do you go to find out more go to an Event Apart dot com [TS]

  slash talk show [TS]

  know that just / talk show them how you came from the show I cannot recommend [TS]

  this conference highly enough [TS]

  go there check the schedule final one coming near you and and you will not be [TS]

  disappointed I have I have this has been an obsession of mine and it's not I [TS]

  guess I'd obsession I mean really is I mean I run a business to business as if [TS]

  you count the show is a separate thing where it's you know it's part of that I [TS]

  mean I make my income I support my family on advertising but I've been [TS]

  obsessed with it all the way from before it was what I was doing was successful [TS]

  you know before I knew whether it could work but you know i i I'm obsessed with [TS]

  it and I think it's so interesting is that I don't know a man who knows if I [TS]

  came up with it but that they quote that the definition of insanity is doing the [TS]

  same thing over and over again and expecting a different result [TS]

  and that's the thing that drives me nuts about the print as print publications to [TS]

  the web and lose money is is they still keep trying to sell ad in a way that [TS]

  they've shown over and over and over again don't support the publication and [TS]

  why keep doing that you know and it just seems and and maybe I you know under [TS]

  estimating how long it takes for a new medium to settle into our society and [TS]

  that to me the web is this old thing and it's established and it's clearly here [TS]

  to stay [TS]

  whereas you know what is it really how old is it really what like seventeen [TS]

  years old 18 years old and termed not in terms of when the first website one-up [TS]

  netscape 1995 96 maybe you know TV sixteen seventeen years after the first [TS]

  TV sets were sold still didn't have to do advertising the right way I don't [TS]

  know but it's just as frustrating to me because it's it's just crazy that they [TS]

  just keep doing it the same way you know and it's eventually you figure out what [TS]

  it is you have to sell and prodded print publications have to sell they could [TS]

  sell space on paper including an entire page at a time they were monopoly there [TS]

  was the only efficient way to reach the audience in a locality national level [TS]

  and advertisers knew that but what was the actual format what they had to sell [TS]

  ad space on printed pages right now and it's too late to have what is TV have to [TS]

  sell they have time right they can sell the whole screen at a time [TS]

  thirty-seconds you know the fact that it ended up with these thirty second spots [TS]

  instead of sixty second spots or whatever doesn't really matter but what [TS]

  they're selling his time the same thing Radiohead and whether they have nowhere [TS]

  band and the web I think has spent his entire time trying to [TS]

  appliqued the print idea that you're selling space on a page and it's it's [TS]

  it's a disaster right and it just never made sense to me because what can you do [TS]

  in a magazine every man I've said this before I know of said this on the show [TS]

  but every magazine I read what turned it around on what's on the front cover and [TS]

  what's on the cover is something that's obviously supposed to capture interest [TS]

  in treat you in some way and what's on the back what's on the back is a [TS]

  full-page ad right right and the better the magazine the better at the ad [TS]

  usually it's usually something from you know here's here's the new issue of The [TS]

  New Yorker just showed up at my house today it's an ad for get reggae and an [TS]

  enterprise the company or a riot fashion I'm guessing that this watch on the back [TS]

  of the new yorker I would I would guess that this is probably like a tenor [TS]

  $15,000 yea or Cadillac or BMW or something like that and what do you get [TS]

  the first few pages of the magazine you get full page ads two-page spread these [TS]

  valuable things is it a is it inconvenient to you as the magazine [TS]

  readers know you know a lot of the magazine's there are things that I like [TS]

  i dont im not gonna buy that $15,000 wristwatch but I like looking at it I [TS]

  like to see that no I like to look at the ad and see what the hell does it [TS]

  $15,000 and if i dont have not interested at all in the ad it's a [TS]

  second to get past it to the next page [TS]

  the web it just doesn't work like that and all they do traditionally is so [TS]

  these little two inches by 3 inches long things and they did the web page like [TS]

  the back of the magazine right like the last few pages where they'll yeah we'll [TS]

  take your 50 bucks and put a little you know a little add alongside the article [TS]

  there is no thing that's the equivalent of a full-page ad on the web so just get [TS]

  over it what do you really have what are we down to the thing that the web and [TS]

  the internet in general has to sell his attention and the only way to sort of [TS]

  make that attention to sell it in a premium way is to sell less of it yes [TS]

  but it means that you have to be producing something of such high quality [TS]

  that people don't discriminate mean it's a socio-economic being in part estate is [TS]

  the new yorker can sell it as for a lot of money because its demographics are so [TS]

  good in the advertised i've seen that that watch and the bank sells you know [TS]

  millions of dollars of watches or whatever so hundreds of thousands of [TS]

  dollars of watches or as part of an overall high-end branding campaign that [TS]

  lets the watch be sold for $15,000 because it appears on the back of the [TS]

  new yorker they get the cachet of that too but it's it's the I think it's a [TS]

  trivial way too much about themselves like you could say it's only 10 but like [TS]

  I said she would formally think of as in the real world they were terrific [TS]

  publications with integrity and they're running remainder adds that I know we're [TS]

  bringing them in fifty sensor less per thousand views the running these things [TS]

  the bottom that show these terrible read other articles of her spam or something [TS]

  you know juju berry thing or whatever and I'm like where does that get you [TS]

  that you made that extra no chance of us on that page doesn't get you anywhere [TS]

  but it was one point which is that the Kickstarter so I'm actually using [TS]

  Kickstarter in what I think is the right way for someone like me to use a [TS]

  kickstart which is probably most kicks arse which is the $40,000 [TS]

  you don't have to reveal my own salary but like the magazine is it does well in [TS]

  the writers well but it somehow make my living it's part of it you know it's [TS]

  still insist it's an experiment I love it but I make my living from a variety [TS]

  of things I put most of my time in the magazine but it's not where we're making [TS]

  a living from entirely so it's not like it's in a disclaimer about like pledged [TS]

  forty granted I get forty of the thousands of it but I'm really using the [TS]

  Kickstarter the way that is very useful when you really just need some capital [TS]

  and you want to give people incentive to do it because they like what you're [TS]

  doing but also you're giving them the reward is actually think you're making [TS]

  as a result of raising the money so [TS]

  the book by book in the Kickstarter you get a book that's great but I have [TS]

  threshold hits a forty a grand that was in all my budging that gets me more [TS]

  copies to print of course I'm gonna fill I don't wind up with really any money at [TS]

  the end there's a little bit of margin of error a garage full of books [TS]

  yeah exactly what I've got a pretty great so so the goal is really I want to [TS]

  sell about her books roughly reaches the goal and secure hardcover books they [TS]

  could be some mixing bowl of people can buy books or by some of the higher level [TS]

  rewards that's fine but roughly 15 her books I'm gonna pray about 2,000 books [TS]

  so I don't make really any money all the riders get paid again they get reprint [TS]

  for use the designer the printer every gets paid and I went with books at the [TS]

  outcome and then I have to sell I can sell any number of ebooks after its done [TS]

  in a hundred percent of the cost has been paid for and I can sell you notice [TS]

  a 500 print books or even do another run if those sell over the next year and [TS]

  that's where it actually benefits the bottom line is is the Kickstarter helps [TS]

  me come up with the capital that's very hard to do this right and do something [TS]

  that I think is worth people's time and attention and then my reward for myself [TS]

  personally as I have more stuff I can sell that's been paid for in the process [TS]

  of producing this thing for them as the result that alright I can't let this [TS]

  close though without talking about these to me very creepy high-end pledged [TS]

  levels not there's there's there's two things you got for these you've got a [TS]

  five thousand dollar pledge level you get a Lex Friedman visit any cons and [TS]

  and gives you shave and I don't know with your shows you Sutra positions with [TS]

  Chris Higgins same deal five grand he'll visit you anywhere in the continental [TS]

  USA and again with the country you know if i if somebody lived in Hawaii I know [TS]

  that it's more of a flight but hey why is beautiful I can I can see an escape [TS]

  clause for Alaska [TS]

  negotiate negotiate Chris Higgins frequent contributor to the magazine [TS]

  just like blacks he'll he'll come [TS]

  and then there's a Jason Snell visit but the Jason snow is five thousand and one [TS]

  this is a grudge visitors so now I launch the Kickstarter and Alexa Chris [TS]

  repair Jason's like why am I not there I'm like well you know sort of fun and [TS]

  it was thought to be four people people react very strongly Lexus IS pieces and [TS]

  they've done they've done a ton of the two biggest contributors of course and I [TS]

  asked them and they were game to do it if somebody wants to come its funding [TS]

  coming give a talk to buy the people dinner in 2001 suggestions like I'll do [TS]

  it I'm like oh that's what do you do all come with a guy come and we'll tell by [TS]

  people dinner and I'll taping compromise with them like that's great he said but [TS]

  I have to be a dollar more than blacks and I said and done and then here's the [TS]

  other thing then you are you can people killed by a visit from you and yours is [TS]

  $8,000 now how can charge more than these guys who you doing this nice [TS]

  things for you I have this dear friend a dear friend is give me great advice [TS]

  about the structure structural things to do with promoting stuff and she said you [TS]

  can't you're the editor you cannot list yourself as $5,000 these guys are [TS]

  writers in the perfectly wonderful but you really you're the editor the thing [TS]

  you should put yourself in my shoes they make yourself $10,000 I said no that's [TS]

  48 I can do it but I thought I thought I will take your advice because you know [TS]

  it with serious level is you know if you were priced out getting people for [TS]

  speakers bureaus it is crazy too many many people charged when moving is [TS]

  actually my list is actually there there Kwasi serious that come with books shown [TS]

  some people books and cover all the costs of someone coming but it's the [TS]

  idea of like if you like the idea of this and you want someone who wanted to [TS]

  support the publication and and things happen which patients or if you've [TS]

  already got like an event schedules actually this is a book entry and so if [TS]

  you have a group that wants to raise the money actually took this partly for [TS]

  Amanda Palmer because it's sort of funny but it's true is she does house concerts [TS]

  I thought this is like this is the house concert equivalent [TS]

  of being a writer speaker whatever in she sold a camber how many in her [TS]

  million dollar-plus campaign and is still the filling them like two years [TS]

  and then the pictures are crazy it's like you have a rockstar come to your [TS]

  house and snuggle with you as part of the deal more like I've met Amanda yeah [TS]

  yeah and great artists and their success is completely justified now spread again [TS]

  I would take $5000 not to have her deal was not enough because of her me I would [TS]

  I would not like I wouldn't want Bob Dylan to perform and I should point out [TS]

  these visits and my cat in campaign they will not stay with you there covers [TS]

  hotel for them now you know that story I forget it actually based on a true story [TS]

  P T Anderson made into a film punch-drunk love really great movie but [TS]

  it was a bad guys in movies played by Adam Sandler but he's not it's [TS]

  absolutely not an arab Sandler movie but the idea was that there were these cans [TS]

  of identity more soup that you bought them in on the back of the camera soup [TS]

  was like a thousand miles on american airlines and he figured out that you [TS]

  know that the miles if you just compute what's the miles roughly worth worth way [TS]

  more than 89 cents so he just bought literally thousands of dollars thousands [TS]

  and thousands of dollars in thousands and thousands of Kansas soup cut all [TS]

  these coupons out and ended up with you know right like you know he became like [TS]

  the most you know mild the customer on American Idol [TS]

  my mind works the same way where I often try to see the loopholes and I got it I [TS]

  know for a fact because part of this is you get taken out to dinner I could rack [TS]

  up more than $5,000 on it is true I'm slightly concerned that some will push [TS]

  the olive we did not set a limit however we hope that the people who pay 5000 we [TS]

  do it easily I could easily because she was doing house concert she's had a lot [TS]

  of her things were like 50 people got together and put $100 and they got to [TS]

  come and swim with her [TS]

  snuggle in the closet I don't know if they will snuggle for more but I'm not [TS]

  Amanda Palmer either we should wrap up we've been on for a while but it's been [TS]

  a great show we know I was talking about Bitcoin but gotta might have to have you [TS]

  back for another show because we've we've expanded the whole thing on ads [TS]

  Public License I will come back in I think I understand you're a great piece [TS]

  on a link to I will link it up it's in the queue for during fireball so it'll [TS]

  be through their great piece in The Economist this is this is not going to [TS]

  talk about but it's I think I actually understand how it works technically [TS]

  still will talk about it it's fascinating even if you did you know [TS]

  it's ridiculously elegant and clever at every level and every level is insane at [TS]

  the same time I want to mention this is sort of off-topic I was working in that [TS]

  way but I can't but when you were talking about the history of the New [TS]

  York right and it gets tired and has a wrap-up of the show of why it's worth [TS]

  having a publication that that can stand the test of time and build its own [TS]

  legacy so the new issue the December 9th issue [TS]

  the new yorker came to my house today and on the cover two lovely cover by his [TS]

  name is van banja I love his work and it is a picture of McSorley's Old Ale House [TS]

  established 1859 and mostly monochrome but there's a little Christmas to it and [TS]

  Merry Christmas innuendo and present on the ground as snow-filled Street and [TS]

  lower Manhattan and there's a guy up front playing trumpet and cute waitress [TS]

  inside now the thing that caught my eye about this and I you know most of it i [TS]

  subscribe to The New Yorker comes every week and I've got a big stack literally [TS]

  knee-deep in my office of unread issues I can't keep up with it I love so I love [TS]

  the new yorker can't keep up with it every week but I happen to know this [TS]

  because my friend Scott Simpson recommend this book to me while ago it's [TS]

  a book called up in the old hotel by James Joseph Mitchell ever heard of [TS]

  Joseph missile yes yes if Mitchell was a staff writer at the New Yorker I think [TS]

  maybe when it was founded if not he was one of the early hires he started in [TS]

  1939 and was for a few decades was one of the top contributors and this is a [TS]

  collection of his work in the new yorker it is a wonderful book and what kind of [TS]

  stories he used right we're just like you know just man on the street stories [TS]

  about the regular citizens of New York and he's won I mean it's it's one of the [TS]

  best books I've ever read and it was really great recommendations I can't [TS]

  recommend it highly enough [TS]

  up in the old hotel and the first story in in this book by Joseph Mitchell is [TS]

  the old house at home [TS]

  and it's a profile of a sold-out house was written in C I have the book of the [TS]

  year twenty when this is also about long form stuff and it's just a story about [TS]

  the saloon and who owns it [TS]

  what it's like inside think it was written in like 1939 1943 1943 1944 1947 [TS]

  book so it's here's a story about this old house it was established in 1859 the [TS]

  oldest pub in New York City continuously open I believe since 1859 and there [TS]

  wasn't one of the most famous [TS]

  a great historically notable profile that the new yorker ran but they ran it [TS]

  seventy percent seventy three years ago and now here's the cover story and it's [TS]

  you know a picture and I think that's so great and I don't know how many readers [TS]

  of The New Yorker gonna know that but like one soon as I saw it it was like to [TS]

  me it was like thats awesome that there's a great follow-up to which I [TS]

  just found the blog post of the new yorker dot com about it and it is funded [TS]

  some additional cartoons for the say it's a slide show showing me the Pooh [TS]

  wandering in if you ever seen the Pooh smoking a cigarette while the other hand [TS]

  it's interesting about Joseph Mitchell is now this in the foreword to the book [TS]

  and it's written by David Remnick the current editor of the new yorker Joe [TS]

  Gould's secret is is this I'm quoting from his david remnick introduction Joe [TS]

  Gould's secret is mitchell's masterpiece as the last piece in the book it is also [TS]

  of course his last piece he never published again for the next thirty one [TS]

  years and six months [TS]

  Mitchell came to work almost everyday and submitted not even a story for the [TS]

  talk of the town no one was more esteemed by the staff in this quarterly [TS]

  soft-spoken genius and no one but a fool [TS]

  asked about his silence their theories about what might have hindered him some [TS]

  great personal sadness the weight of reputation the radical changes in New [TS]

  York he admitted when he was in his eighties I can't seem to get anything [TS]

  finished anymore [TS]

  estate the world isn't just defeats the kind of writing I used to do so he but [TS]

  that's the sort of but he remained a staff writer full-time employed and came [TS]

  to work five days a week for 31 years and six months and never rode never rode [TS]

  another piece that is there something that almost incredible [TS]

  application out there was time layers comment about why after being one of the [TS]

  most successful political you know humorous in America for years and years [TS]

  and that he gave it up as a math professor of his full-time job right but [TS]

  he gave up his he said after henry kissinger won the Nobel Prize nominated [TS]

  for the Nobel Peace Prize something of that nature and say I just thought that [TS]

  was so fast and so great that they would call back to your plan for doing [TS]

  fireball is a blank page for the next thirty one years every day people get up [TS]

  and look at the page it'll be nothing they're probably not with a whimper but [TS]

  with the house bank probably is how people just keep coming back hoping for [TS]

  something now [TS]

  alright Glen thanks a lot everybody check out the Kickstarter for the [TS]

  magazine the book and I checked the show notes and blend piece on [TS]

  Bitcoin in various bylines in 37 different weekly publications thank you [TS]

  all right thank you [TS]