The Incomparable

230: World-Class Weirdo


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  the incomparable number 230 January 2015 [TS]

  welcome back everybody the incomparable [TS]

  podcast host Jason still we I'm [TS]

  convening a very large edition of our [TS]

  comic book club to talk about a [TS]

  comic-book chosen by the first person [TS]

  i'm going to introduce to Lisa [TS]

  Schmeisser Italy charter member of the [TS]

  comic book club hello hi it's nice to be [TS]

  here and and you chose promethea my and [TS]

  alan moore available where comics are [TS]

  sold on the internet and elsewhere and [TS]

  and we are going to be talking about the [TS]

  first couple of trades so if you have [TS]

  not read any of it and you don't want to [TS]

  be spoiled you should go read the first [TS]

  couple trades and then come back and and [TS]

  a welcome back thanks reading those [TS]

  trade see what i did there anyway the [TS]

  other members of our comic book club [TS]

  tonight Tony sindelar hi Tony [TS]

  hello nerds I don't have anything [TS]

  quickly to say about committee except [TS]

  that i read it i'm here to talk about it [TS]

  well good i do the homework [TS]

  hello nerds I did the homework mont [TS]

  actually also here hi Monty hello that [TS]

  this is our world now reading comic [TS]

  books his homework [TS]

  yes the Nerds one and that they have an [TS]

  assignment for you sleep with the [TS]

  weeping gorilla says and in episode [TS]

  we've been girl I gotta read comic books [TS]

  homework [TS]

  yes your streams down the weakened [TS]

  condition there's one and this is our [TS]

  world now Erica and sign is also out [TS]

  there hello hello yes i have learned [TS]

  that reading comic books can be like [TS]

  homework [TS]

  ah very nice yeah and since that's [TS]

  foreshadowing and chips others is also [TS]

  out there hello [TS]

  it's an honor to be here to talk about [TS]

  one of the most important comic creators [TS]

  ever [TS]

  and I'm talking of course about letter [TS]

  Todd klein yes he said that's amazing [TS]

  no i'm serious i love his work yeah i [TS]

  was making notes about how good his [TS]

  lettering was in the Attic book [TS]

  oh my God he's already promised look [TS]

  Monty don't do that it was digital i was [TS]

  writing on my screen [TS]

  okay well don't write on your screen [TS]

  monitor that's terrible [TS]

  alright Lisa why did you pick promethea [TS]

  and have us read it and I'm not judging [TS]

  here well maybe a little bit of you [TS]

  don't use yeah I had a few reasons for [TS]

  picking it up one [TS]

  it's relatively old so it's easy to get [TS]

  used copies for cheap [TS]

  oh yeah maybe 9 and 15 exactly one of my [TS]

  goals for having one of the things I'm [TS]

  trying to do with or I'd like us to do [TS]

  with kaka club this year is introduced [TS]

  comics to people who really don't have [TS]

  time everyone stay to pop into a shop [TS]

  and read and so I thought well if it's [TS]

  an older home me and if its older comic [TS]

  you can get used which means that it's [TS]

  not a big financial strain either and [TS]

  that was another reason I'm the second [TS]

  reason I chose promethea is the book is [TS]

  completely done so we could if we wanted [TS]

  to assess it as a whole body of work we [TS]

  can talk about this comic knowing full [TS]

  well that Alan Moore is not going to add [TS]

  on like another five issues and [TS]

  completely torpedo everything we think [TS]

  about it right so it's a finite [TS]

  closed-loop it's not like when you talk [TS]

  about a TV series and the Creator hit [TS]

  the reset button I mean this is done [TS]

  it's close it's a finite thing [TS]

  the third reason I chose it is because [TS]

  it's a deconstruction of the superhero [TS]

  genre and it's also equals in a really [TS]

  weird religious direction and i was just [TS]

  fascinated by i was fascinated by it by [TS]

  the fact that he said you know I'm going [TS]

  to do I'm going to take the Wonder Woman [TS]

  myth and i'm going to mix it up with a [TS]

  whole bunch of mystical stuff and see [TS]

  what comes out the other side [TS]

  the fourth reason I chose it was because [TS]

  it is the most optimistic [TS]

  post-apocalyptic work I've ever run [TS]

  across and given the amount of a [TS]

  post-apocalyptic dystopian fiction we've [TS]

  talked about here I thought to be kind [TS]

  of refreshing to to approach something [TS]

  that's all trial on the end of the world [TS]

  her ray and finally the fifth reason is [TS]

  to me it's the most Alan more thing he's [TS]

  ever written it is it is if if you had [TS]

  to take a look at his body of work and [TS]

  then [TS]

  a pic something that distills the [TS]

  essence of our more down to one book [TS]

  this would be the book to do it there's [TS]

  just enters layer upon layer upon layer [TS]

  and so and finally as I was rereading it [TS]

  the the reason that bubble for my [TS]

  subconscious is this book is now old [TS]

  number we can use it as kind of a [TS]

  historical artifact of the nineties [TS]

  because i'm pretty sure that's when he [TS]

  started thinking about it and writing it [TS]

  and it's fun to see this as an artifact [TS]

  of where comics were going in the [TS]

  nineties and works where societal [TS]

  attitudes were two and then to compare [TS]

  them to what we're doing today [TS]

  so those are all my reasons alright fair [TS]

  enough i I am so i started the one of [TS]

  the reasons I I said let's absolutely do [TS]

  this i mean one is I've read a lot of [TS]

  alan moore and not just the you know [TS]

  watchman and be for vendetta and from [TS]

  hell and swamp thing but also his [TS]

  latter-day comic stuff like Tom strong [TS]

  and top 10 on and on on one level I [TS]

  think you're right that it is very alan [TS]

  moore E&I in all ways including you know [TS]

  the all the great ways and also all the [TS]

  terrible ways yes um I think I think [TS]

  it's all in there any other reason i was [TS]

  fascinated by this is because i was i [TS]

  was thinking about wonder woman and you [TS]

  know with a lot of talk about whether [TS]

  there would be a Wonder Woman movie [TS]

  after various failed TV series which [TS]

  they've announced they are going to do a [TS]

  Wonder Woman movie now and um also I [TS]

  went and saw a play called lasso of [TS]

  truth which is actually about the guy [TS]

  who invented wonder woman which is a [TS]

  fascinating story in unto itself [TS]

  I have you read the Jill Lepore article [TS]

  which is exempted from her longer booked [TS]

  on the origins of wonder woman I i [TS]

  haven't although I feel like I since I [TS]

  saw an entire play that it's probably [TS]

  none of its new but like that the [TS]

  polygamous relationship and that's the [TS]

  name undertones and his pretty strong [TS]

  feminist feelings and all of that yes [TS]

  and in fact he is the creator of the [TS]

  love the love the light detectors to the [TS]

  man who invented Wonder Woman's lasso of [TS]

  truth also invented the actual last [TS]

  three the white detector [TS]

  I'm in the middle of that book and it is [TS]

  great I thought I knew everything about [TS]

  him but he's a real [TS]

  we're do there's lots more yeah so I I'm [TS]

  that fascinates me that promethea is [TS]

  this you know Alan Moore post modern [TS]

  take on Wonder Woman as well which is [TS]

  this is a mythological figure that is [TS]

  sort of like superimposed on top of a [TS]

  regular girl and creates this creates [TS]

  this kind of superhero Malcolm and so [TS]

  that was it looks like a pretty rich [TS]

  stew to jump into and and and you're not [TS]

  supposed to jump into a stew but that's [TS]

  what i did i jumped into it was like a [TS]

  hot tub full of stew emperor has jumped [TS]

  right in any way and I found it [TS]

  fascinating i don't know where we go [TS]

  from here what with elisa would you like [TS]

  to throw something out because like I [TS]

  said I feel like I feel like this is [TS]

  your baby [TS]

  so the first question I wanted to bring [TS]

  up to the crowd at large was exactly how [TS]

  much do you think more knew about Wonder [TS]

  Woman's history and the Creator because [TS]

  one of the themes that I notice pops up [TS]

  through the course of the first two [TS]

  trades and what I'm going to say I feel [TS]

  like we should respect we should try to [TS]

  focus the discussion on the first two [TS]

  trades because that's what almost always [TS]

  have read and can contribute to but [TS]

  what's the problem what seems to pop up [TS]

  over and over again is the idea of the [TS]

  crater as somebody who has an innate [TS]

  streak of of iconoclasm and that and he [TS]

  comes back that over and over again [TS]

  where the very nature of being a [TS]

  creative person sets you apart from the [TS]

  mainstream and it's also something that [TS]

  while it allows you to contribute to the [TS]

  world and ultimately damages you because [TS]

  as they point out in the comic books [TS]

  promethium for those are you catching a [TS]

  Promethean is is basically the [TS]

  ratification imagination she's the [TS]

  living avatar of imagination she was [TS]

  original little girl to God's pulled her [TS]

  into the material which is the room [TS]

  imagination is so basically she's a [TS]

  living avatar when people imagine her [TS]

  she can possess them or they can become [TS]

  her living avatar and earth and over the [TS]

  course the first two books you get [TS]

  introduced to a series of artists or [TS]

  artist muses who had imagined and and [TS]

  and loved and become invested promethea [TS]

  and so they came for me for themselves [TS]

  and as one of the points out every [TS]

  single one of them died as a result of [TS]

  engaging in the Smith creating this myth [TS]

  and becoming this myth [TS]

  so what I wonder about is is do you [TS]

  think alan moore new a whole lot about [TS]

  Wonder Woman or is this just a general [TS]

  larger statement on creativity [TS]

  um yes he'll check on that Chicago is it [TS]

  had to be both I mean I'll alan moore is [TS]

  is a genius about the comics field and [TS]

  is is it [TS]

  he's an artistic formalist who really [TS]

  digs in deep into comics and tries to [TS]

  make this dries to make them do things [TS]

  that they've never done before but it's [TS]

  all about the art form itself so he had [TS]

  to know how about the history and all [TS]

  and all that but at the same time at the [TS]

  same time it it turns into such as [TS]

  meditation on imagination itself that [TS]

  I'm reading this thing and all i can [TS]

  hear in the background as a magician [TS]

  Doug Henning in the background talking [TS]

  about in the mountain a mission [TS]

  oh that's worth of imagination everybody [TS]

  here maybe you are worlds avatar [TS]

  Prometheus win the war [TS]

  ok actually let me go around one table [TS]

  um who is your favorite permuting out of [TS]

  out of the ones that we get introduced [TS]

  to everyone [TS]

  did everybody find one they identified [TS]

  with her is there one that you liked or [TS]

  disliked or really related to like what [TS]

  are your emotional responses to the [TS]

  different Prometheus and I mean I like I [TS]

  want to start by saying I like the fact [TS]

  that there is in the in the you get [TS]

  introduced to promethea through the [TS]

  current holder of of promethea mhm who [TS]

  is aging and a band and Barbara yeah and [TS]

  she's not really up to it anymore [TS]

  yeah it and that's interesting and very [TS]

  traditional comical care right like the [TS]

  Gold Eagle the but yet Golden Age hero [TS]

  is about to retire but the Silver Age [TS]

  hero is going to step in and become the [TS]

  new promethea right but what I love is [TS]

  that then when / media visits the the [TS]

  land of imagination she finds everybody [TS]

  who's ever been promethea basically [TS]

  hanging out by a pool and talking to [TS]

  each other and there's like essentially [TS]

  Greek chorus of Prometheus and I i love [TS]

  that as a concept to the fact that like [TS]

  the whole Prometheus squad is there as [TS]

  promethea [TS]

  to comment on what's going on and to [TS]

  help her out i think that that takes it [TS]

  to a whole other level from the you know [TS]

  you just meet your you know the mentor [TS]

  the originator know you mean everybody [TS]

  was at the job [TS]

  yeah the greatest thing yeah yeah so I [TS]

  thought that was I thought that was [TS]

  really cool [TS]

  I'm my favorite promethea is Margie a [TS]

  little help hardly be there between to [TS]

  work and I get defensive over and also [TS]

  just because i love Little Nemo in [TS]

  Slumberland so i'm totally in for any [TS]

  references or in this case out right [TS]

  back off some of the concept I honestly [TS]

  had trouble remembering who is who I [TS]

  trouble keeping them keeping them [TS]

  separate in my mind I was constantly [TS]

  having to go back and be like okay which [TS]

  one is this and what's their deal so I [TS]

  wouldn't say I had a favorite because I [TS]

  struggled so much to remember who was [TS]

  who [TS]

  yeah i'll be boring and say that sophie [TS]

  was my favorite but one of the things [TS]

  that I noticed was that their voices [TS]

  they they occasionally become very [TS]

  specific and distinct and otherwise and [TS]

  at other times they talk like each other [TS]

  and I don't know how I don't know how [TS]

  purposeful that was but it also made it [TS]

  difficult for me to tell them apart [TS]

  sometimes you have to really pay [TS]

  attention to the costuming and [TS]

  everything else and I think you know [TS]

  they're supposed to be different aspects [TS]

  of the same character but luckily for me [TS]

  Margie not only doesn't talk like [TS]

  everyone else she had better anything to [TS]

  talk fine being a genius [TS]

  yes she's not even really a Prometheus [TS]

  she just sort of she's just heard this [TS]

  annoying tag along the cartoon character [TS]

  or in a comic book that makes some sense [TS]

  yeah i guess if I had if I had to pick a [TS]

  favorite it would be Sophie bangs mostly [TS]

  simply because i felt like i was kind of [TS]

  on the journey with her she had no idea [TS]

  what was going on at the beginning in [TS]

  and I had no idea what was going on [TS]

  either so therefore she was my my [TS]

  identification character [TS]

  well I mean yeah I mean that that's good [TS]

  night and like I really like i like [TS]

  Barbara and the fact that she's dealing [TS]

  with the fact that she's passing this is [TS]

  the end of her life essential and she's [TS]

  passing this torch to Sophie and then [TS]

  you know inevitably she's gonna pass [TS]

  into the the realm of imagination i will [TS]

  throw a shout out to Bill [TS]

  because I i think the idea that a [TS]

  closeted gay male artist who drew [TS]

  promethea and sort of uh I idolized her [TS]

  and then that plotline me that he takes [TS]

  where he becomes promethea and falls in [TS]

  love with a man who doesn't realize that [TS]

  this is a man who's turned into a woman [TS]

  and ends up getting killed as a result I [TS]

  I thought that was poignant and also [TS]

  quite an interesting like if you're [TS]

  gonna have this wall of Prometheus to [TS]

  have that be be one of the twist i [TS]

  thought was was really brilliant and I [TS]

  could also identify which promethea was [TS]

  Bill so how do i do that that one is [TS]

  delicate the planet is gonna love that [TS]

  little rings around the legs yeah or [TS]

  know what I think of what i thought was [TS]

  interesting when I went back through and [TS]

  looked at him is one of the reasons i [TS]

  love Barbara is because I feel like over [TS]

  the course the book you're also getting [TS]

  a look at the it isn't in sort of a [TS]

  subtle meditation on the impact that [TS]

  created a creative life has on a [TS]

  relationship and the feedback loop [TS]

  between the creator of their partner and [TS]

  and how much it might be a joint [TS]

  endeavor and how much of it isn't [TS]

  because remember Barbara says well he [TS]

  used he used me as his model for his [TS]

  imagination for promethea I don't have [TS]

  his imagination which is why I basically [TS]

  look like myself and help in the costume [TS]

  right but she's even soup and that's [TS]

  fascinating she becomes Promethean not [TS]

  not the writer but but the music his [TS]

  wife [TS]

  yeah yeah she's the model and um I [TS]

  realize we're restricting this to the [TS]

  first two books but in the third there's [TS]

  actually a really lovely sequence where [TS]

  you do get to see more about their [TS]

  relationship and it is very end it [TS]

  really it it makes me wonder if alan [TS]

  moore was was saying something about you [TS]

  know this is this is the reality of what [TS]

  it's like to be the person who's in love [TS]

  with the creative force this is the [TS]

  reality of what it's like to be a [TS]

  creative person who has the need to love [TS]

  and connect with somebody and pull them [TS]

  into their endeavor even if they don't [TS]

  fully understand it so so i really like [TS]

  Barbara for that reason I really like [TS]

  Barbara and Bill i do want to interject [TS]

  though that one of the things that make [TS]

  me a little uncomfortable reading this [TS]

  book is that they're all these feminist [TS]

  statements [TS]

  we're in a time right now with gamer [TS]

  date and everything else going on [TS]

  I kept in the back of my head I don't [TS]

  know Alan Moore very well as far as is [TS]

  and personal life and life is outside of [TS]

  comics and things like that but i felt a [TS]

  little bit like I was being mansplain 2m [TS]

  that the guy telling the story has [TS]

  Barbara looking older and overweight and [TS]

  unattractive bill has it still has his [TS]

  gender issues becomes a her and I almost [TS]

  would have felt more comfortable if it [TS]

  hadn't been alan moore writing this but [TS]

  if this had been woman writing it that's [TS]

  it was funny as I actually felt almost [TS]

  the opposite because when you get to the [TS]

  whole tantric sex scene no the cup and [TS]

  the wand and the cup in the wand and I'm [TS]

  like I got really really know who's back [TS]

  to that I could hear and that's why I [TS]

  roll my eyes I say hello to taro and [TS]

  it's all and you look at the city on the [TS]

  cards and you notice the harlot at one [TS]

  point and i went back and took a look [TS]

  and I thought well on the one hand he's [TS]

  got this whole Prometheus a woman and [TS]

  she's imagination but on the other hand [TS]

  he's got some pretty gender determinist [TS]

  ideas going on and so I was a little [TS]

  uncomfortable with the book on that [TS]

  level because I feel like he starts off [TS]

  strong by pointing out that imagination [TS]

  should in theory make general fluid in a [TS]

  construct but then it turns into but [TS]

  know the laws of the universe are that [TS]

  man and woman in and ask really thus [TS]

  were going with it i'll just i'll just [TS]

  briefly point out that the year after [TS]

  promethea ended is the year lost girls [TS]

  finally came out so well anybody else [TS]

  here comes to reading loss girls i read [TS]

  it i own it you on it yeah for sudo [TS]

  artistic ok where he he only reads it [TS]

  for the article know it is [TS]

  yeah well it's actually one of the most [TS]

  angry and emotionally disturbing of his [TS]

  work and i'm not i'm not being arch [TS]

  about that it was some it'sit's general [TS]

  generally speaking there's a lot of [TS]

  anger on that and there's a sequence in [TS]

  the first two books again where there's [TS]

  like those two demons for hire to go [TS]

  after Sophie early on [TS]

  and they they call the cab driver what [TS]

  he's doing to his granddaughter and a [TS]

  handgun and I was like okay I've this is [TS]

  clearly a theme that he's working on [TS]

  because it comes up again and again the [TS]

  damage that people can do two children [TS]

  that that's like a huge thread that runs [TS]

  your loss girls and I thought it was [TS]

  interesting that he puts it out there [TS]

  and then he gives the reader this this [TS]

  some almost unearned sense of catharsis [TS]

  with oh don't worry bad people will go [TS]

  get their comeuppance because there are [TS]

  forces in the University give it to them [TS]

  so that was something that stuck with me [TS]

  it it didn't the first time I read the [TS]

  series but you know the first of the [TS]

  series I had lost girls huh [TS]

  so there you go oh well i tried to just [TS]

  come back i tried to do some background [TS]

  because I'm like Shirley other comic [TS]

  sites have tackled this let's see if [TS]

  anybody's done this and I kept burning [TS]

  cross these essays forever like I I [TS]

  don't know what to say and this made me [TS]

  think of the biggest question I want to [TS]

  ask you guys which is do you think that [TS]

  this book might be perhaps a little too [TS]

  complex with too many layers sisters and [TS]

  systems in meeting [TS]

  yeah or or or you know are we struggling [TS]

  because we may be used to reading really [TS]

  complex pros novels but when you get so [TS]

  many different levels of narrative like [TS]

  you having a graphic novel where is all [TS]

  of this visual imagery on top of the [TS]

  text and you have to negotiate the [TS]

  relationship between them to do you [TS]

  think maybe we're getting like what [TS]

  basically amounts to four times the [TS]

  complex novel is this the part where I [TS]

  say yes again yes this time this time i [TS]

  was reading it on my computer so i was [TS]

  using guided view from panel to panel [TS]

  I've lifted the guided view which I [TS]

  never used to say let's see what the [TS]

  person who did guided view things i [TS]

  should look at the end to this is a [TS]

  comic that breaks comiXology it is [TS]

  because so many so much of the design is [TS]

  here's the whole page isn't that amazing [TS]

  and guess what are these panels go there [TS]

  is overdoing it was like here's some [TS]

  panels now let's zoom out now we're [TS]

  gonna go back in now come back out [TS]

  no man as I was I was looking at the [TS]

  sequence where Sophie is is busy [TS]

  BIP BIP bopping through it's the it's [TS]

  the last issue in trade paperback number [TS]

  two [TS]

  yes chapter 6i have Magnus's about this [TS]

  issue the stupid scrabble tiles at the [TS]

  bottom [TS]

  pentagram and oh there's a stupid [TS]

  running joke at the bottom and the joke [TS]

  is done by man in different stages of [TS]

  development oh look there's a history of [TS]

  Western civilization of the top [TS]

  yeah then on top of that you have macro [TS]

  and micro who are busy giving you really [TS]

  bad hackneyed Rhymes and there's the [TS]

  it's the Socratic dialogues and I [TS]

  thought to myself only you can only do [TS]

  some comics and then another party was [TS]

  like I was born I always wanted to [TS]

  remove the two snakes in the caduceus [TS]

  were and what their personalities were [TS]

  like no I never wanted to know that what [TS]

  I found out I need to take a sponsor [TS]

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  the beauties of loot crate is you never [TS]

  really know what you're gonna get even [TS]

  if they give you hints the the opening [TS]

  the box is a joy there like a pal who [TS]

  knows the stuff that you love and like [TS]

  to surprise you with awesome stuff every [TS]

  month they shipped to nine different [TS]

  countries there's more [TS]

  nation on the loot crate site and it's [TS]

  not just a subscription services a whole [TS]

  community of fans that are sharing the [TS]

  stuff that's in their crates with each [TS]

  other and showing off what they're doing [TS]

  with it it's a lot of fun so if this [TS]

  sounds cool if having cool geeky stuff [TS]

  appeals to you like it appeals to me go [TS]

  to loot crate calm / smell and a code [TS]

  smells to save ten percent off any new [TS]

  subscription [TS]

  Thank You lootcrate for the cool box [TS]

  again every month and for sponsoring me [TS]

  uncomfortable if you read the script for [TS]

  from hell [TS]

  only every panel has a thousand words [TS]

  describing everything that's in it and [TS]

  explaining all the research he did which [TS]

  is why I think you know everything about [TS]

  William Moulton Marston yeah but it's [TS]

  like this was alan moore deciding i'm [TS]

  just going to put in everything I think [TS]

  of ya [TS]

  yes my entire worldview yeah which is [TS]

  why I think this is like the most [TS]

  quintessentially mauryan thing ever [TS]

  because it's him doing all sorts of [TS]

  fancy intellectual backflips because one [TS]

  of things i do love about legal shorter [TS]

  gentleman for example is how he [TS]

  basically it's basically highfalutin [TS]

  fanfic oh sure it's gotten less [TS]

  highfalutin nothing yet has i got like [TS]

  the one volume or like oh so so so that [TS]

  we have been harvested subject these [TS]

  days that's about where i was like a [TS]

  I'll find some other things treat it was [TS]

  obvious like for a while he really love [TS]

  these characters and love these stories [TS]

  and he loved the idea of trying to fit [TS]

  them together in a hole macro narrative [TS]

  right and so here he's kind of doing the [TS]

  same thing where author and Hermes and [TS]

  all thrown floss and i'll throw in the [TS]

  history of the Western world and i'll [TS]

  throw in the Kabbalah and then i'll do a [TS]

  whole lot of commentary on how awful [TS]

  Generation X is and i'll send up the [TS]

  super and after a while you're like dude [TS]

  we get it dialed back man I kind of look [TS]

  at it as sort of have to step back and [TS]

  look at it it's just a work of art and [TS]

  usually anytime i described something as [TS]

  a work of art it means it's not [TS]

  something that I really appreciate it on [TS]

  an emotional level it's something that [TS]

  look at it and say that this [TS]

  intellectually appreciate it took an [TS]

  awful lot of work and I appreciate that [TS]

  that there are this many intellectual [TS]

  backflips that went into it i was i was [TS]

  actually really excited after eating the [TS]

  first trade because I i thought at first [TS]

  that maybe it was going to be a little [TS]

  bit more of a straightforward narrative [TS]

  that you had and i love the idea of the [TS]

  land of imagination reminded me of like [TS]

  fantasia from the neverending story but [TS]

  the more we got into the you know the [TS]

  Kabbalah on the Tarot and the mysticism [TS]

  I mean I've read an awful lot of stuff [TS]

  about that sort of thing but i prefer to [TS]

  read about that in a more [TS]

  straightforward you know kind of like [TS]

  this just made me want to go back and [TS]

  reread breaking open the head by Daniel [TS]

  Pinchbeck which is a a real-world story [TS]

  of self-discovery as opposed to this [TS]

  very artsy fartsy version thereof so I [TS]

  just felt like I was it was preaching to [TS]

  the choir and I don't like being [TS]

  preached to [TS]

  and I really don't like being preached [TS]

  you when I have to read like six [TS]

  different types of things are going on [TS]

  the same page [TS]

  some of it in poem haha yeah although I [TS]

  i liked it more than the Invisibles [TS]

  which is grant morrison kind of doing [TS]

  the same thing as yeah okay you know [TS]

  what i'm talking about really sighs you [TS]

  know they're kind of in a similar place [TS]

  in my head where you know very smart [TS]

  people who I respected strongly [TS]

  encouraged me to read them and I got a [TS]

  lot further in prometheus than i did in [TS]

  the Invisibles but like yeah i got i [TS]

  have tried one of the collection of the [TS]

  Invisibles that I have never finished it [TS]

  and I'm not I don't [TS]

  you never will I think you can launch [TS]

  the podcast called Lisa grumbles about [TS]

  the Invisibles for 45 minutes and I [TS]

  could probably fill it up for like six [TS]

  weeks some people who have recommended [TS]

  some other very good comics to be really [TS]

  like the Invisibles but like yeah I [TS]

  could not get into it this book reminded [TS]

  me of another grant morrison book an [TS]

  earlier one tho animal man oh man just [TS]

  oh that's oh wow well tied into the loss [TS]

  what was that the Lost Children which [TS]

  was that big old vertical multi [TS]

  crossover that had part of Sandman and [TS]

  it had animal man and had Doom Patrol [TS]

  and know and like 10 feet from the and [TS]

  swamp thing to think it's tied into it [TS]

  somehow and and whatsherface the little [TS]

  girl from Animal Man and then I went [TS]

  back and read grant grant morrison's [TS]

  animal ran around and was like I I don't [TS]

  take enough drugs to read this on a [TS]

  regular basis haha but a lot of the same [TS]

  stuff is going on here that that was a [TS]

  series that starts out as a commentary [TS]

  on superheroes and ends as a commentary [TS]

  on comic books and plays a lot of the [TS]

  same tricks I thought better than [TS]

  promethea did because Prometheus a [TS]

  polemic and this gets into the third [TS]

  fourth and fifth trade paperbacks mommy [TS]

  there's a big difference between books [TS]

  to one and two and what comes after that [TS]

  it's it's huge it's like it it's like a [TS]

  lot more to sit it's time to preach yeah [TS]

  by like by the time you to book five you [TS]

  gotta be in there right and actually i [TS]

  have to say without without being [TS]

  spoilery the very last issue is is the [TS]

  voice sort of changes in its it's much [TS]

  more straightforward and it's a lot less [TS]

  you know I don't know if it's a lot less [TS]

  silly i guess i thought so honestly I [TS]

  think my favorite one was the very very [TS]

  last one where it's more just a case of [TS]

  of el amor [TS]

  he just kind of strips away some of the [TS]

  artifice in between himself and their [TS]

  the reader it is basically more just [TS]

  talking straight at you rather than [TS]

  putting it in layer after layer of gauzy [TS]

  weirdness I feel like he kind of insist [TS]

  on doing that at some point it always [TS]

  works that's usually where i get [TS]

  exasperated see i'd rather have that [TS]

  than all the rest of it [TS]

  I want to ask you something and didn't [TS]

  occur to me until I didn't reread a [TS]

  Promethean and then went back and looked [TS]

  at some of his earlier works the [TS]

  friendship between stacia and Sophie I [TS]

  wanted to see what you guys thought [TS]

  about that friendship how it reads to [TS]

  you what you think they see in each [TS]

  other and why so much attention is paid [TS]

  to it i hope i never have a friendship [TS]

  like that I just I felt that way that i [TS]

  read it was that they were both such a [TS]

  damaged people who did not really know [TS]

  how to get along and society that they [TS]

  couldn't do any better than each other [TS]

  and I kept hoping that maybe they would [TS]

  just go ahead on separate ways and find [TS]

  some real friends and yeah you guys have [TS]

  read more than me but i have to say that [TS]

  was kind of the stuff that I struggled [TS]

  with the most I mean everything else is [TS]

  so kind of is all this kind of weird [TS]

  fantastic stuff and the stuff between [TS]

  them like just didn't know i didn't find [TS]

  that writing is good and it didn't feel [TS]

  particularly believable [TS]

  I guess yeah because the only the the [TS]

  most charitable explanation I can come [TS]

  up with is maybe station is supposed to [TS]

  be more steak on the vacuity or [TS]

  shallowness of Generation X because [TS]

  there's a lot of stuff in here that [TS]

  makes me think that he tends that he [TS]

  really hated the nineties like no [TS]

  because a lot of the aesthetic I i was [TS]

  looking at the trends that station rocks [TS]

  and a lot of it is is very 1990s club [TS]

  kid looking you know what the the [TS]

  beehives and the hair colors and things [TS]

  like that [TS]

  weeping gorilla is basically that if we [TS]

  can google is like the most 1990s thing [TS]

  i can think of you know and especially [TS]

  when he's got that one trackers like i [TS]

  could if i could only listen to just one [TS]

  more Radiohead track and I was like oh [TS]

  there we go [TS]

  but but i was wondering if stations [TS]

  supposed to be his his indictment of oh [TS]

  this is the chat shallow techno obsessed [TS]

  non-critical consumerist generation and [TS]

  their big into pop culture nostalgia and [TS]

  so they're incapable genuine creativity [TS]

  because he has such act of hostility for [TS]

  that character i think that especially [TS]

  the club she's at with the terrible rock [TS]

  lyrics [TS]

  oh yes laughing all over the place [TS]

  that's now are lyrics are like Alan [TS]

  knock it off [TS]

  yeah yeah I'm i wanted to i want to back [TS]

  up to talk about the edit that issue [TS]

  number 12 again only because this is [TS]

  this is we touched on it briefly but now [TS]

  I kinda want to lower the boom on it be [TS]

  is this I I I like Erica I appreciated [TS]

  the effort [TS]

  good job good effort that went into it [TS]

  and get it the same time I kind of hated [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah and so it reminded me of like an [TS]

  art installation where they might have [TS]

  liked some paintings on the walls and [TS]

  some sculpture and you think oh it's art [TS]

  but there's also like a boom box playing [TS]

  beat poetry on one side and another boom [TS]

  box playing different beat poetry on the [TS]

  other side so it's a cacophony and you [TS]

  don't understand it because there's just [TS]

  too much going on you're completely [TS]

  overwhelmed and then somebody is like [TS]

  yelling footnotes at you [TS]

  that is what that is and it's the entire [TS]

  issues like that and it is alan moore [TS]

  telling us how much research is done and [TS]

  or what his personal metaphysical [TS]

  beliefs about the universe and or tarot [TS]

  cards are and it is it is so far off the [TS]

  rails that it's it's kind of [TS]

  breathtaking to watch somebody with that [TS]

  level of talent when he brings up a [TS]

  Harpo Marx tarot cards are all really [TS]

  wait what [TS]

  dude if you were on some like amanita [TS]

  muscaria mushrooms you would be in linux [TS]

  understanding everything to a degree of [TS]

  clearly an issue 12 and it blew my mind [TS]

  man [TS]

  what I feel like this I actually feel [TS]

  like this book is a huge artifact of the [TS]

  nineteen nineties like intellectually [TS]

  and psychically and pop-culture speaking [TS]

  one of the reasons i actually dropped [TS]

  out after my Master's is I was in grad [TS]

  school at the time when [TS]

  deconstructionism was huge and everyone [TS]

  was time we break down the signifiers of [TS]

  meaning and I should we should we should [TS]

  put know by the way deconstructionism [TS]

  met back then did not mean taking all [TS]

  the different ingredients of a sandwich [TS]

  and putting separately on a plate that [TS]

  has never because you know it was [TS]

  shocked terrible and it was a lot of [TS]

  holiness zoo and you need to challenge [TS]

  the the borders that have been ratified [TS]

  by the Academy blogger and I was like I [TS]

  can't really spend another four years [TS]

  pretending that I respect this so i left [TS]

  and [TS]

  but there's 12 promethea for you that an [TS]

  issue 12 a Promethean was like honestly [TS]

  it was like the performance art I had a [TS]

  class in the class that actually it got [TS]

  me thinking I need to get the heck out [TS]

  of school was one where are our [TS]

  professor had challenged us to do a [TS]

  creative interpretation of the history [TS]

  of communications technology i am Morse [TS]

  code that's right Joey I am a radio way [TS]

  like there's this one guy who came in in [TS]

  Latin like put himself in a foil box and [TS]

  began reciting beat poetry years there [TS]

  were people who liked it [TS]

  interpretive dances to hypertext and [TS]

  jenny holz her stuff and I was like and [TS]

  I was like I can't even I just wrote a [TS]

  regular paper deconstructing the [TS]

  creation myths and wired magazine for [TS]

  two years and an issue 12 was basically [TS]

  like sitting through that class all over [TS]

  again and you know what I looked at the [TS]

  scrabble tiles and was like oh my God [TS]

  he's done nothing but a mammogram is [TS]

  this is this is I sort of like an [TS]

  immigrant anagrams are what you do in [TS]

  fifth grade you're like whoa if you [TS]

  rearrange letters they need different [TS]

  things are the same set now my mind [TS]

  yeah it's kind of it's kind of a parlor [TS]

  trick I think it's I think it's a shame [TS]

  because I again there's a lot of really [TS]

  great deep interesting material here but [TS]

  it's like I mean at we say this so often [TS]

  on this show in fact it's like it's like [TS]

  there's nobody there because he's a lot [TS]

  more right there's nobody there to say [TS]

  Alan too far [TS]

  dial it back on and there are plenty of [TS]

  people out there who are saying you go [TS]

  Alan maurya genius one of working on [TS]

  Virginia's they feel smarter and having [TS]

  read in this is a work of genius in the [TS]

  sense that he's kind of a genius and he [TS]

  did this work that is totally bizarre [TS]

  and out there so there's that [TS]

  likelike again I'm going back to Erica [TS]

  there's that analytical level of like [TS]

  what did alan moore mean when he did [TS]

  this [TS]

  that's fine but in terms of like being [TS]

  an an editor or somebody saying what was [TS]

  this what what do we think this was [TS]

  going to be I get to issue 12 unlike [TS]

  nope this is not what we thought this [TS]

  was going to be this is kind of totally [TS]

  nuts and you know I I liked where you [TS]

  were going with the idea of sort of [TS]

  taking me wonder woman kind of tropes [TS]

  and investigating those and and [TS]

  commenting on them [TS]

  we haven't even talked about the fact [TS]

  that you know promethea Sophie [TS]

  is a as as as they see a point out [TS]

  because she's a really good friend that [TS]

  Sophie Sophie is kinda flat chested and [TS]

  promethea is a cartoon character she's a [TS]

  giant she's like an Amazon with big [TS]

  boobs and I you look at that and you [TS]

  think this is a great commentary on the [TS]

  you know on individuality and and who's [TS]

  the real person here and how we depict [TS]

  women and and idealization of women and [TS]

  all of that you know this nice rich [TS]

  thing to draw from an issue 12 comes in [TS]

  like oh ok the Big Bang there's a woman [TS]

  with a snake in the sky real seriously [TS]

  the Big Bang is a male ejaculation and [TS]

  then cosmic inflation is a female [TS]

  something that's the second card [TS]

  oh did you see that money 5,000 yeah [TS]

  that what I'm also wondering is we're [TS]

  reading this in 2015 and graphic novels [TS]

  are are pretty much they've come out of [TS]

  the no really they're our basement where [TS]

  they were hunting and because because [TS]

  you have to get over the last decade [TS]

  we've had you know wonderful works of [TS]

  nonfiction reportage and we've had [TS]

  really great contain graphic novels and [TS]

  it's kind of hard to remember sometimes [TS]

  that promethea was spawned as it were [TS]

  when this this this repositioning of [TS]

  comics and graphic novels when that was [TS]

  still pretty ongoing and my senses is [TS]

  that more is smart but he also whether [TS]

  or not he admits that he wants to be [TS]

  recognized as one as a literary genius [TS]

  and favor [TS]

  there's a little bit of trihard to it [TS]

  where you like to just you know maybe [TS]

  four systems of meeting per page not six [TS]

  you know how I think it's important to [TS]

  look at promethea in context when it [TS]

  came out because he was also doing top [TS]

  10 and Tom strong like that at exactly [TS]

  the same time they all three of those [TS]

  launched within two months of each other [TS]

  and top 10 is good it's not you know [TS]

  annoyingly deep lake from media is and [TS]

  Tom strong is just fun [TS]

  yes so I think at the time he was giving [TS]

  people a range of the Alan Moore's and [TS]

  they could pick which one they liked do [TS]

  you like the one with the talking [TS]

  gorilla and so much so that it was [TS]

  during when you get Tom strong appearing [TS]

  in prometheus later on and it's just [TS]

  like I'm not I'm not [TS]

  i thought i was reading this kind of [TS]

  comic and now we're back to that kind of [TS]

  comic again [TS]

  yeah and I like well I like top 10 and [TS]

  Tom strong and i would say both I like [TS]

  them both enjoyed them both better than [TS]

  promethea but i also will accept in that [TS]

  duality that prometheus is obviously an [TS]

  artist trying to do something big big [TS]

  and about the universe where is Tom Tom [TS]

  strong top 10 or kind of about comic [TS]

  books and i gotta-i gotta make sales [TS]

  I could make some but they're also i [TS]

  mean while I comment on the John run [TS]

  yeah and and then do a twist narrative [TS]

  and and all of that and so I can [TS]

  appreciate Prometheus's ambition level [TS]

  versus top 10 tom strong which I like I [TS]

  also i I don't know sometimes I wonder I [TS]

  try to think about alan moore and [TS]

  forgive me for taking this even further [TS]

  off topic but sometimes I wonder about [TS]

  him in the context of somebody who has [TS]

  sort of done everything there is to do [TS]

  and has been acclaimed as one of the [TS]

  greats in his chosen medium and why do [TS]

  you do after that and and then he's got [TS]

  his extra anger about like DC Comics [TS]

  taking advantage of him and all that and [TS]

  so you end up with this like you know [TS]

  what it what's your next acting for him [TS]

  it was america's best comics i'm going [TS]

  to do these different titles [TS]

  I'm gonna you know i'm going to do [TS]

  something super hero we over here and [TS]

  I'm going to do this something [TS]

  mythological over there and I mean it is [TS]

  kind of on one level I mean I have no [TS]

  idea how he turned out all the money [TS]

  from the movie so obviously he's got [TS]

  enough money to live on and doesn't care [TS]

  and can just turn the money down or give [TS]

  it to dave gibbons out of spite for [TS]

  judgment [TS]

  well most of the movies are not making a [TS]

  lot of money that legal ordinary [TS]

  gentlemen movie [TS]

  well that's true but I mean just for [TS]

  that just for the rights my [TS]

  understanding is they keep trying to [TS]

  shovel money and alan moore and he keeps [TS]

  saying give it to the colorist give it [TS]

  to the letter or give it to the artist I [TS]

  don't want it i don't want your filthy [TS]

  money that's fine but so then let's just [TS]

  assume we can do whatever he wants [TS]

  that's kind of fascinating like you you [TS]

  have reached the pinnacle you can do [TS]

  whatever you want and you know and then [TS]

  that puts you in this position we're [TS]

  like all right well I'm gonna do this [TS]

  crazy like kabbala infested uh your [TS]

  woman gets religion [TS]

  let's do that and what I've done with [TS]

  that I'm gonna do pornographic fanfic [TS]

  well retired my giant mansion and [TS]

  worship by snake god my pal Neil rights [TS]

  doubles he's living his best life I [TS]

  think we should talk about that [TS]

  let me take a sponsor break here i want [TS]

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  I did go to mail route dotnet / and [TS]

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  check it out and thank you so much to [TS]

  mail route for sponsoring and [TS]

  comfortable that the word I keep coming [TS]

  back to when i think about this is it I [TS]

  feel like he thinks of this as maybe his [TS]

  masterwork because it ties together a [TS]

  bunch of other things it looks like he's [TS]

  really putting himself on the page [TS]

  perhaps more than even in some of his [TS]

  other work in this this really is a [TS]

  worldview in you know in color and yeah [TS]

  good for him [TS]

  I'll see your I'll see your masterwork [TS]

  and I'll raise it to manifest oh yeah [TS]

  okay that works that works is one of the [TS]

  things that I find astounding is how [TS]

  much he seems to hate Western [TS]

  civilization because that comes know it [TS]

  does [TS]

  because the way that he depicts 1999 [TS]

  that's the world that Sophia station [TS]

  it's pretty clear to me that station is [TS]

  a product of that world like purely and [TS]

  holy of that world [TS]

  well he hates modern Western [TS]

  civilization League of Extraordinary [TS]

  Gentlemen later things suggest he really [TS]

  likes like old stuff we've been girl [TS]

  weeping gorilla is is basically that the [TS]

  the stand-in for I hate the way [TS]

  sentiment has been commercialized and [TS]

  the bands are basically a stand-in for I [TS]

  hate the way music today as nihilistic [TS]

  and doesn't talk about meaningful things [TS]

  like it did in the 60s and the science [TS]

  heroes are an indictment of of the [TS]

  corporatization of the state and also he [TS]

  really hates the fantastic 40 Giants [TS]

  heroes what are you talking about the [TS]

  five small guys [TS]

  yeah I'm totally different number [TS]

  there's like this alien vs thing in a [TS]

  book number two where I made a note but [TS]

  i'm trying to find it now where it's the [TS]

  most ridiculous sterilization that has a [TS]

  solid banging your head against the wall [TS]

  where basically he's talking about how [TS]

  the age of aquarius was so awesome [TS]

  because you have this generation that [TS]

  was totally into spirituality there's a [TS]

  critical mass of people blur blur blur [TS]

  and I'm like are you kidding me with the [TS]

  baby boomers and so this this whole this [TS]

  whole series is pretty much his his [TS]

  contempt for and weirdly enough not his [TS]

  contempt for the baby boomers but rather [TS]

  his contempt for the people who are [TS]

  reacting to baby boomer culture so [TS]

  basically on the one hand it may be as [TS]

  master working on the other hand it's [TS]

  just a little giant standing on the wall [TS]

  no hits he has a giant it's a giant fist [TS]

  raised at the kids saying get off my [TS]

  lawn [TS]

  it kind of feels like that when you when [TS]

  you read through another time you're [TS]

  like wow he really has a lot of contempt [TS]

  for youth culture in this and for modern [TS]

  culture and you know when he's like well [TS]

  the end of the world wouldn't be so bad [TS]

  because we went off track [TS]

  I one of the things I noticed about it [TS]

  and and you know that here's my theory [TS]

  which is the watch watchmen is very much [TS]

  like modern society is doomed and this [TS]

  is like modern society is doomed but [TS]

  it's later and so now he hates a later [TS]

  version of modern society but it's [TS]

  really just whatever is happening he [TS]

  hates it [TS]

  yeah it's a grand old counterculture [TS]

  days that he's [TS]

  but he's pining for ya everything else [TS]

  sucks [TS]

  he's a fascinating character back when [TS]

  you can make an honest living as a drug [TS]

  dealer or something that's what yeah [TS]

  that's the thing it and this goes back [TS]

  to my my n800 of academic [TS]

  deconstructionism to think we should [TS]

  hate on podcast child actors [TS]

  deconstructionism um but the thing is [TS]

  you can't have a counterculture unless [TS]

  you have account unless you have a [TS]

  culture to specifically define it and [TS]

  like I don't think he realizes that in [TS]

  many ways the counterculture both won [TS]

  and lost because they got commodified so [TS]

  you really can't be counterculture at [TS]

  this point because we've become such a [TS]

  polyglot culture and it's like he [TS]

  doesn't recognize that and his works [TS]

  don't recognize that there's this [TS]

  there's this incredible conformance mass [TS]

  and then there's like two or three [TS]

  people who see the real world and you're [TS]

  like really thats see no it's not how [TS]

  that's not how that's not how it's [TS]

  worked and perhaps because again we're [TS]

  looking at this from the filter of 15 [TS]

  years on where a lot has changed the [TS]

  global landscape and you know the [TS]

  Internet has has has had the internet is [TS]

  now a fact of life for people there [TS]

  there's a lot of points of view in this [TS]

  book that I i think are really specific [TS]

  to their time like as i was reading I [TS]

  thought you said make a fascinating [TS]

  college class the same way that reading [TS]

  virginia woolf makes a fascinating [TS]

  college class because you don't just [TS]

  read the book what you have to do is [TS]

  understand the context in the history [TS]

  and why it mattered at the time it was [TS]

  created and that's I think is part of it [TS]

  for going back and revisiting promethea [TS]

  I was like wow it is it is starting to [TS]

  read this now it in conduit you know [TS]

  especially 15 years after basically [TS]

  started and realize like how much has [TS]

  changed in how reactionary and and left [TS]

  behind this book filled in some ways I [TS]

  mean it's still a beautiful book i think [TS]

  it will see ya there isn't a single page [TS]

  for the coloring isn't the colors is [TS]

  phenomenal and you know we can rant [TS]

  about how wonderful todd Klein is and [TS]

  they are you know I I really feel like [TS]

  JH williams three means needs a special [TS]

  shout-out yes it's it's a gorgeous book [TS]

  battle use a lot of the ideas behind it [TS]

  and there's there's kind of no heart of [TS]

  this at the middle at the center of it [TS]

  and if you're going to write a polemic [TS]

  or if you're going to be like this is my [TS]

  life this is the culmination of my [TS]

  philosophy like put some put some heart [TS]

  into it i agree with you but I it in the [TS]

  books defense in every single issue [TS]

  there is something in there [TS]

  clever there is something there is some [TS]

  beautiful art in every one of these [TS]

  issues the entire issue as a whole may [TS]

  not hang together at all but there but [TS]

  there is cleverness in here I'm and I [TS]

  take Erica's point about it's a it is a [TS]

  work of art and I take her point about [TS]

  how about that not being a terribly [TS]

  enjoyable statement thing but every once [TS]

  in a while I do like looking at art for [TS]

  art's sake and it may be difficult for [TS]

  me to get emotionally involved in it or [TS]

  for me to appreciate it as a story but [TS]

  it is challenging and there are neat [TS]

  things that happen in every book ok [TS]

  maybe not 36 but we're not anything [TS]

  yeah I think we're being to a little too [TS]

  hard on it that and i think it's it's [TS]

  certainly gorgeous to look at i think [TS]

  it's interesting reading and I think [TS]

  it's fascinating to have a world class [TS]

  weirdo like alan moore it is until it [TS]

  down to his alan murray estate would say [TS]

  this is what I think alan moore of all [TS]

  the Alan Moore's in the world where the [TS]

  alan moore easiest yeah like how [TS]

  ambitious this book is yeah yeah you [TS]

  know that's why I had no I i enjoyed [TS]

  reading it and we'll probably read all [TS]

  of the issues because again i would like [TS]

  to read everything Elmore okay well [TS]

  almost everything maybe not lost girls I [TS]

  has also present he is fat he is a [TS]

  fascinating even when I don't like or [TS]

  agree with what he's doing [TS]

  I'm fascinated to see the a great artist [TS]

  at work and why i like it and don't like [TS]

  it i have to admit there are moments [TS]

  where I feel like he's trolling me as [TS]

  your career because having enjoyed top [TS]

  10 for example there is a subplot early [TS]

  on involving the five swell guys and the [TS]

  painted doll Everett at the hospital [TS]

  that is very twisty plot a superhero e [TS]

  in the same way the top 10 is actually [TS]

  accept its kind of beside the point [TS]

  and its really like you were you're [TS]

  interested in that well that's not what [TS]

  we're telling a story about today and I [TS]

  I even kind of appreciate that but it [TS]

  also reminds me of [TS]

  alan moore when he's focused on telling [TS]

  those kinds of stories and how I mean [TS]

  this is always in the back of my head is [TS]

  alan moore is such a brilliant writer of [TS]

  this this is genre of superhero we kind [TS]

  of stories so good at it and I can tell [TS]

  that he doesn't want to do it [TS]

  yeah and you know he's done it and he's [TS]

  maybe done it better than anybody and he [TS]

  kind of doesn't want to do it again and [TS]

  now he's just playing with me a little [TS]

  bit like see I could do that but i'm not [TS]

  going to and it's his you know it's up [TS]

  to him he doesn't have to write those [TS]

  kinds of stories anymore but he's even [TS]

  when he kind of taunts me a little bit [TS]

  it's like he's so good at it even when [TS]

  he doesn't want to be and you know top [TS]

  10 reminded me how good he was at it I [TS]

  would love to read a book about those [TS]

  five guys to be honest with you the [TS]

  interval goes swell first swell the [TS]

  interpersonal dynamics for great um i [TS]

  love them i love the mayor with the [TS]

  pulse width of and personalities yeah [TS]

  yeah and honestly if you know i would [TS]

  have loved a a side book about the [TS]

  people who are responsible for weeping [TS]

  gorilla because I iphone just in there [TS]

  ya know I i find yeah it's just it there [TS]

  they're all these details that you know [TS]

  in that you could actually spin out into [TS]

  really rich entertaining books on their [TS]

  own and they're just casually tossed out [TS]

  because this is a guy who's idea whose [TS]

  idea factory never shuts down i'm [TS]

  clearly well you know i feel i was for [TS]

  rewarded when i get through his books [TS]

  and then go back and i picked this [TS]

  because you know it really is engaged [TS]

  reading on on a huge level and one of [TS]

  the comic book series i've been reading [TS]

  kind of as a palate cleanser between us [TS]

  I've been going back and revisiting the [TS]

  mike grell run on green arrow which was [TS]

  written but you know so it's books that [TS]

  are like the ladies and it's you know [TS]

  total total shift its in lab it's [TS]

  literally like a palate cleanser it's a [TS]

  sorbet to the the gourmet work about [TS]

  more and it makes me appreciate them [TS]

  both a whole lot more important without [TS]

  more like I'm effectively reading 10 [TS]

  books at once and and that got me to [TS]

  thinking what I have this reaction if it [TS]

  were in a different medium if your prose [TS]

  or if it were a TV show and and it did [TS]

  this or or is [TS]

  this type of story that you can only [TS]

  tell in comics I don't know [TS]

  Lynda Carter would have made me [TS]

  interesting promethea but I think [TS]

  there's a lot of women who have made [TS]

  sure he was just a lawless would be [TS]

  great to actually you're right Lucy [TS]

  Lawless basically Barbie she be a [TS]

  fantastic Barbara oh my god i don't know [TS]

  Alan Moore man my eye I have my own like [TS]

  10 different versions of watchmen I mean [TS]

  and I think I've got it i mean i think [TS]

  i've got a couple a couple v for [TS]

  vendetta and I from hell I mean I i am [TS]

  fascinated by Alan Moore that oh yeah [TS]

  and all and all he does and this is this [TS]

  is this is good it's just there are [TS]

  those moments where I feel like a lot [TS]

  more pulls us aside and ok sit here now [TS]

  and let me tell you a little bit of [TS]

  value it would you like to subscribe to [TS]

  my newsletter that is called dodjem [TS]

  logic there's one piece of dialogue i [TS]

  wanted to make fun of just just really [TS]

  briefly just one pic yes there's a [TS]

  moment when I think it's Barbara [TS]

  Prometheus says I'm freaking promethea [TS]

  you idiot [TS]

  yeah and reading that now really [TS]

  reminded me of Frank Miller's dialogue [TS]

  for all-star batman and robin oh-ah I'm [TS]

  going to steal Erica's role here and i'm [TS]

  going to make the obligatory doctor who [TS]

  reference alright I when I light [TS]

  Ghostlight seventh seventh doctor [TS]

  episode where they crammed in so many [TS]

  ideas into three episodes and the and [TS]

  fandom is hugely divided over whether it [TS]

  is genius or whether it is overall [TS]

  incomprehensible nonsense [TS]

  yeah principle not that I think Eric and [TS]

  I are both on the incomprehensible [TS]

  nonsense team here and and I get this [TS]

  feeling over like I do get this feeling [TS]

  over promethea where I where I am [TS]

  struggling i'm struggling through the [TS]

  cool stuff and the cool art and trying [TS]

  to figure out if this is a really a good [TS]

  use of the medium you know I think for [TS]

  me it was a sound very negative about [TS]

  this and I think that the reason for [TS]

  that is simply because they didn't know [TS]

  what I was getting into my expectations [TS]

  worst kind of like I said set up to be [TS]

  one thing if I had known what it was [TS]

  going to be going into it and had was [TS]

  able to sort of shift my mind to be [TS]

  ready for that i think i would have [TS]

  would have liked it more but since i was [TS]

  expecting something a little bit more [TS]

  straightforward it was disapointing to [TS]

  have that that shift but but i do really [TS]

  think that it was beautiful on both [TS]

  surface levels and incredibly deep [TS]

  levels i mean if there's a lot of good [TS]

  in here it [TS]

  this may not be for me but I am honestly [TS]

  glad that it exists and I I wouldn't [TS]

  change a thing [TS]

  I think i'm totally with you Erykah i [TS]

  mean i feel like i watch and read and [TS]

  listen to a lot of stuff that's kind of [TS]

  junk food media and this though I don't [TS]

  think I care for it was really [TS]

  interesting in a way that a lot of stuff [TS]

  i consume is not so like I don't regret [TS]

  reading it which is you know not [TS]

  something i can say about everything i [TS]

  read i don't know and i went back and [TS]

  read it again because I wanted to feel [TS]

  prepared and and I got more out of it [TS]

  the second time and that's not something [TS]

  that's always true but i don't know if i [TS]

  need to own it which I currently do i [TS]

  don't know i'm going to go back and read [TS]

  this again right you know i feel like i [TS]

  got plenty of other comics on the Shelf [TS]

  that I'm much more likely to read many [TS]

  many more times before i decided to pull [TS]

  this one down again and you know I guess [TS]

  that's kind of how i feel about [TS]

  something that I've I've I've read [TS]

  watchmen countless times I don't feel [TS]

  the need to reread his middle stuff of [TS]

  League of Extraordinary Gentlemen [TS]

  anymore i'm okay with that right so yeah [TS]

  yeah there's a moment and book 3 when [TS]

  their characters walking on a möbius [TS]

  loop and if you're reading this on an [TS]

  iPad you're in hell yeah because because [TS]

  auto-rotate is your worst enemy [TS]

  oh yeah but what it's designed for it to [TS]

  be in a comic book when I got to that [TS]

  point I did actually have to put the [TS]

  ipad down and direct an expletive and [TS]

  Ally take a little long [TS]

  korean shake your fist Adele and more [TS]

  wherever here take a left take a walk [TS]

  around the ipad so you can actually see [TS]

  everything i want to mention that the [TS]

  science hero thing which is in this end [TS]

  and in tom strong is a i believe i was [TS]

  just talking on [TS]

  I walk today with with with my family [TS]

  about we were talking about superheroes [TS]

  and things like that [TS]

  I didn't start it but I finished it [TS]

  uh-huh about the idea of it superhero [TS]

  itself is a trademark co-owned by DC [TS]

  Comics Marvel Comics and and and I [TS]

  realized later that this is why Alan [TS]

  Moore has played up the concept of [TS]

  science hero in these comics because [TS]

  that's actually his commentary on the [TS]

  fact that superhero is owned as a [TS]

  concept and I thought that was hilarious [TS]

  actually [TS]

  Wow because he's a bitter bitter man so [TS]

  so bitter who I had what better is [TS]

  awesome and you know I obviously enjoy [TS]

  better men but I don't know what you're [TS]

  talking about that the the take i took [TS]

  from that as well is since the a lot of [TS]

  this talks about instinct and primordial [TS]

  flow and cosmic rhythms and so on and so [TS]

  forth is i also had a kind of suddenly [TS]

  slip it goes back to his I hate [TS]

  technological progress I think he's not [TS]

  a really big fan of scientific culture [TS]

  as it emerged in popular culture over [TS]

  the last 60 to 70 years like I think the [TS]

  space race is kind of the worst thing [TS]

  that's ever happened to him personally [TS]

  because what because it legitimized [TS]

  science as a way to to learn about [TS]

  creation and introduce ideas of quantify [TS]

  ability and verifying and you have to [TS]

  reproduce results and this is how we [TS]

  know things is because they are [TS]

  immutable and that that is almost [TS]

  counter to this whole you walk pads and [TS]

  see women having things to do it snakes [TS]

  in the sky and that's how you know [TS]

  you're on the the path to truth and [TS]

  freedom is so for me [TS]

  science heroes is also his way of saying [TS]

  well I hate the deplorable superhero [TS]

  culture of mainstream comics right [TS]

  science is not done anything great for [TS]

  culture too horrible taste that tastes [TS]

  horrible together often get is his a [TS]

  wikipedia biography made me laugh out [TS]

  loud because it describes him as an [TS]

  occultist ceremonial magician and [TS]

  anarchist it's like yep that's that's [TS]

  you can tell you that from the beard [TS]

  really yeah well I got a cultist [TS]

  ceremonial magician i was saying that [TS]

  this should turn into a showtime [TS]

  TV series and and I realize it will not [TS]

  happen because i would but it might [TS]

  break everybody's TVs know what I was [TS]

  thinking is personal a lot more like I [TS]

  don't need the money and I thought what [TS]

  they do is they would probably strip the [TS]

  cult it would be this woman gets really [TS]

  possessed by hot women entities and she [TS]

  goes often has adventures and at the end [TS]

  she meets an FBI guy and settles down [TS]

  like they would totally date and the [TS]

  meantime it's an example is an excuse [TS]

  for women to get into like scanty chain [TS]

  mail and run around and I thought oh man [TS]

  I i need to stop reading for that tap [TS]

  and it is why I want more is better [TS]

  yeah exactly because you know you [TS]

  there's and and I thought well maybe the [TS]

  religious things kind of off-putting [TS]

  thing because in u.s. culture were [TS]

  really generally very uncomfortable with [TS]

  with any sort of with the idea that [TS]

  people who believe things that are in [TS]

  judeo-christian have have valid rights [TS]

  and their beliefs might actually be [TS]

  worth considering [TS]

  that's not really an idea that we're [TS]

  comfortable with so having an entire [TS]

  series or attractive will explain the [TS]

  Kabbalah g it might be off-putting and I [TS]

  thought know they would probably just [TS]

  eliminate that altogether and go [TS]

  straight to and then she and this is she [TS]

  and the 54 guys take on you know don't [TS]

  you [TS]

  the y2k y2k technology because we see [TS]

  them and then they permeate takes on the [TS]

  crazy mayor and then promethea goes on a [TS]

  walkabout to help a lady find her dead [TS]

  husband and it would just be like that [TS]

  and there might be a hint of [TS]

  spirituality to keep people you know to [TS]

  keep the fan people no no really it's [TS]

  gonna happen in minute now but it would [TS]

  it would basically be we have attractive [TS]

  women running around and losing their [TS]

  clothes every opportunity which would [TS]

  actually be the type of series that [TS]

  promethea would send up in flames as [TS]

  proof of a decadent spiritually dead [TS]

  Western culture that needs to be brought [TS]

  meant let me take a break to tell you [TS]

  about one of our sponsors at Squarespace [TS]

  you heard them at the top of the show [TS]

  you know back in the day building [TS]

  website was a really really hard the [TS]

  number of things you need to know you [TS]

  need to know the technical stuff about [TS]

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  want to add e-commerce there's a whole [TS]

  other series of things that you need to [TS]

  all integrate together so much effort to [TS]

  do that even as recently as a few years [TS]

  ago just a really hard thing to do I [TS]

  definitely felt this pain with a bunch [TS]

  of the sites that i was starting back in [TS]

  the late nineties and in the [TS]

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  a long time [TS]

  there's much more to talk about now that [TS]

  Squarespace seven is here [TS]

  Squarespace 7 has a brand new redesigned [TS]

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  like that it's got this amazing [TS]

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  happens right within Squarespace such a [TS]

  great feature and i want to mention 15 [TS]

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  they look great on computers they look [TS]

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  what a great deal so here's what you [TS]

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  Squarespace and show your support for [TS]

  the uncomfortable that's promo code [TS]

  smell at Squarespace [TS]

  start here go anywhere you know you know [TS]

  it's interesting that you bring up the [TS]

  whole attractive women explain the [TS]

  Kabbalah to you because I I feel a [TS]

  little bit like that's what this was [TS]

  ya know we've got this we've got this [TS]

  worldview that that Alan Moore may or [TS]

  may not actually hold but it certainly [TS]

  seems like he does and i think he it [TS]

  seems to me like it's almost [TS]

  proselytizing he's trying to sort of [TS]

  sneak it in via comic book for people [TS]

  who might not otherwise be be here would [TS]

  be associated with these kinds i don't [TS]

  think he's sneaking yeah exactly it's [TS]

  not something people's minds and this is [TS]

  this is why I didn't like it because I [TS]

  prefer the straightforward approach and [TS]

  like i said i've already have already [TS]

  been through this this this crash course [TS]

  here like I know this is what will give [TS]

  you it will give you a free ride from [TS]

  the airport but along the way you're [TS]

  going to have to hear about our [TS]

  timeshare and episode or issue 12 is [TS]

  sort of like the the lecture you have to [TS]

  sit through to get the free thing for [TS]

  the timeshare it's like okay I i know [TS]

  you bought into this really interesting [TS]

  story [TS]

  ok let me tell you about my worldview [TS]

  universe is created it looks like that [TS]

  one issue in from Hell where he just [TS]

  tore London and say here's all the [TS]

  Masonic architecture you know what [TS]

  Legion there's actually done every [TS]

  camper meeting now that you mention it [TS]

  that bugs me because it pops up a lot [TS]

  and trades 2 and 3 which is Randy old [TS]

  men will take young women in hand and [TS]

  explain to them how the world works and [TS]

  it's it's a little problem that fit her [TS]

  where you're like okay she's supposed to [TS]

  be in a living avatar imagination then [TS]

  why does she need so much help from old [TS]

  men who will lead her while they explain [TS]

  how how the Tarot works like what was [TS]

  going on with that what what what are [TS]

  you working out buddy [TS]

  it's you know it's aight i think it [TS]

  feels kind of icky to me so and and that [TS]

  just might be me being being [TS]

  hypersensitive but I am I found it I [TS]

  found it pretty striking that you have [TS]

  like a few issues where it's like Hello [TS]

  promethea here is Margaret explaining [TS]

  things to you here's [TS]

  I'll explain things to you here's you [TS]

  know what Oh what's your name the the [TS]

  one who goes crazy and book three clear [TS]

  she's great here's grace being typically [TS]

  Gracie and um and you have that years [TS]

  ago this is great because they have this [TS]

  community pool of knowledge and they [TS]

  each have different specialties and then [TS]

  it turns into and now it's time for you [TS]

  to have sex with an odious old man [TS]

  position oh yeah that was so creepy and [TS]

  oh and oh yeah well my final statement [TS]

  on this comic is yes it's creepy [TS]

  yes it doesn't always work yes it's but [TS]

  there are worse things to read than a [TS]

  gorgeous comic book that's an ambitious [TS]

  failure written by a genius [TS]

  even if he is a complete lunatic that's [TS]

  pretty fair i agree completely with that [TS]

  Monty I i agree i am glad to have read [TS]

  it i will read it to the end and it is [TS]

  bizarre and its kind of brilliantly [TS]

  bazaar in that way like I would never [TS]

  put this it as a favorite comic of mine [TS]

  ever but um I i have fascinated by it [TS]

  yeah exactly I'm actually okay with the [TS]

  the sex with the creepy old man part I [TS]

  appreciated that simply because i really [TS]

  liked the idea that at least in this [TS]

  case that sex is going beyond the [TS]

  physical representation of a person now [TS]

  maybe it would have been nicer if it was [TS]

  a young hot guy in and then old wrinkly [TS]

  lady or something like that but to me [TS]

  the part that stood out and was [TS]

  important was the fact that that we are [TS]

  not what we look like there's there's [TS]

  more to us on the inside so I like that [TS]

  okay it just I don't know I mean some of [TS]

  the imagery is soaked just like super [TS]

  creepy because I because I appreciate [TS]

  that i do I didn't I was so glad he [TS]

  didn't put on a glamour i like that they [TS]

  they put that off in our face because [TS]

  it's really all that's just nonsense [TS]

  anyway it's just everything's in the end [TS]

  it's still a transaction but anyway yeah [TS]

  probably [TS]

  although you know that wasn't a wrinkly [TS]

  old lady in a really hot young man sex [TS]

  right exact that's another comic that is [TS]

  not has not adopted [TS]

  well I don't know why almost ready those [TS]

  comics i just want to emphasize how [TS]

  awesome the art is by JH williams there [TS]

  it in beautiful are the great color [TS]

  great letter layout you have the layout [TS]

  so much attention is given to the page [TS]

  layout [TS]

  oh my god and the varying styles that [TS]

  mean this guy this guy has no house [TS]

  style.the the digital photography and [TS]

  some spot oh yeah there's others i [TS]

  didn't even mention there's a few many [TS]

  issue basic land and it just works and [TS]

  it works for you know I and i love how [TS]

  the different formations have very [TS]

  distinct body types as opposed to it's [TS]

  just five women who are you know typical [TS]

  comic babysits and we're not getting [TS]

  Todd client is a great letter and he [TS]

  does great work in this just fantastic [TS]

  lettering top clients unspoken hero [TS]

  because it's such a text heavy comic [TS]

  that if you didn't have all of the [TS]

  subtle differences it would be very [TS]

  difficult figure out who's who on his [TS]

  lettering was one of the reasons i was [TS]

  able to get as far into the book and so [TS]

  I would yeah that's good yeah he's the [TS]

  guy who lettered Sandman and then the [TS]

  fact that I recognized his lettering [TS]

  stone and looks so familiar helped me [TS]

  get past the okay this isn't just a [TS]

  superhero comic there's some weird stuff [TS]

  going on here [TS]

  don't think don't think Fantastic Four [TS]

  think sandman you'll get through this [TS]

  you'll be okay Todd clients blog had [TS]

  recently like an 808 chapter incredibly [TS]

  detailed essay on the evolution of [TS]

  computerized lettering and comic books [TS]

  and how the good letterers now have [TS]

  their own fonts with 12 different [TS]

  exclamation points because they have to [TS]

  adjust the spacing manually all the time [TS]

  uh-huh fascinating to me I want to thank [TS]

  everybody for sticking out and slogging [TS]

  through this book and engaging with it [TS]

  is rigorously as you did as opposed to [TS]

  making this podcast an hour of know Lisa [TS]

  Hayes know who about fascinating [TS]

  fascinating to read some of this and and [TS]

  yeah and so I I in some ways i would say [TS]

  this is the kind of thing that many of [TS]

  us wouldn't have read if it weren't [TS]

  assigned to us whether it's in a [TS]

  classroom for a podcast so thank you for [TS]

  the assignment because i think it was i [TS]

  was fascinated 22 to dig into it i never [TS]

  would have otherwise I think thanks mrs. [TS]

  memorized [TS]

  oh yeah and our essays are due next [TS]

  tuesday eight pages double-spaced have [TS]

  him in Lisa's box by 5pm and but you get [TS]

  an F unless you write it in multiple [TS]

  colors and upside down to expect to be [TS]

  able to read it right to left and left [TS]

  to right [TS]

  oh no my essays in the form of a mobius [TS]

  strip is that going to be an awesome big [TS]

  help [TS]

  no it's create different boxes start [TS]

  reciting but i'm writing to sa is one on [TS]

  the top half of each page 1 of the [TS]

  bottom half of each page and the [TS]

  counterpoint each other so enjoy that I [TS]

  turned my essay into an anagram it's [TS]

  your job to unscramble yeah before so [TS]

  before we go I wanted to I want to go [TS]

  around just in case somebody has been [TS]

  has been reading some other kind of [TS]

  comic book related thing that they would [TS]

  like to mention i like it's sort of like [TS]

  our book clubs what are we reading i [TS]

  don't know if you guys have prepared [TS]

  anything [TS]

  Oh or but but you know if you if you [TS]

  aren't don't feel bad if you are then [TS]

  then share with us Lisa something that [TS]

  you've been reading that you would like [TS]

  to share with the group [TS]

  I'm eye-to-eye like i said i have been [TS]

  going back through and rereading the [TS]

  mike grell run on green arrow but he did [TS]

  back in the late eighties uh if you like [TS]

  if you liked this show arrow I think you [TS]

  should read this because the whole point [TS]

  of the grip my grill run was they drop [TS]

  the key and black Canary drop the code [TS]

  names they have no superpowers [TS]

  whatsoever [TS]

  they're basically vigilantes living and [TS]

  working out of seattle and the artist so [TS]

  ladies and it's so much fun and I have [TS]

  been working my way through pox romana [TS]

  which is what would happen if the [TS]

  Catholic Church one time traveling to [TS]

  try two inch ensure a permanent [TS]

  religious One World Order and it's a [TS]

  great idea and there's a lot of great [TS]

  things in the execution the typeface is [TS]

  driving me crazy so that's its but [TS]

  that's been slow going and for fun i [TS]

  also read Kelly sue deconnick some first [TS]

  trade for Captain Marvel which i loved [TS]

  it was so much fun [TS]

  it's so funny i can't wait for that [TS]

  movie to come out and we talked about on [TS]

  our walk today yeah we had to explain [TS]

  the difference between ms marvel and [TS]

  after Marvel no ya didn't explain that [TS]

  to people and they forget immediately [TS]

  and then Rogan monkey bridge you don't [TS]

  even be just anyway [TS]

  ya know the captain marvel but to be [TS]

  honest the captain marvel book reads [TS]

  like the guardians of the galaxy felt [TS]

  when I was watching the movie this [TS]

  summer it's it's it's that funny and has [TS]

  that that vein of soul running through [TS]

  it and i highly recommend it to anybody [TS]

  who was just looking for a romp and for [TS]

  anybody who's watching the series arrow [TS]

  and wants to nerd out a little bit more [TS]

  read the ground stuff or or if anybody [TS]

  was like my that shot looks like an [TS]

  eagle painting come to life like read [TS]

  the girl stuff that's a lot of fun [TS]

  tony i have been reading a bunch of [TS]

  stuff scalped and help laser and things [TS]

  like that but the new series that i [TS]

  recently discovered that i'm really [TS]

  enjoying and I feel like pretty rarely [TS]

  pick up new series and just you know [TS]

  slaving away on one's i've been reading [TS]

  forever but the wicked and the define [TS]

  have you guys heard about that or anyone [TS]

  else reading that i have it on my [TS]

  wishlist on amazon so what I was really [TS]

  impressive the weekend the divine the [TS]

  premise is that there are there's a [TS]

  pantheon of gods who show up every 90 [TS]

  years or so and i have godlike powers [TS]

  but are fated to die within limits two [TS]

  years and so basically kind of live as [TS]

  rock stars for those two years and [TS]

  complicated things happen to them and it [TS]

  was highly recommended to me by somebody [TS]

  who only ever recommends good things and [TS]

  I read the premise was like having i [TS]

  read that vertigo comics like four times [TS]

  already but and then I got it and I was [TS]

  I was kind of blown away so i strongly [TS]

  recommend it is already too and then [TS]

  we'll find out which of us is right [TS]

  also i love scalp so yes a plus+ for [TS]

  reading that this was my favorite series [TS]

  the last 10 years [TS]

  all right Monty anything you're reading [TS]

  you want to plug here i think the last [TS]

  live comic book I read was death of [TS]

  wolverine number three and you can tell [TS]

  already that I was by the fact i haven't [TS]

  gotten to the number four we actually [TS]

  dies he dies he is he okay now [TS]

  no he's still day is good yeah he's got [TS]

  a good year or so of death coming [TS]

  people still buy comic books after will [TS]

  realize i just i dunno we don't know yet [TS]

  Marvel farm after worry doc yes who's [TS]

  who's in all the comic books that [TS]

  spider-man and deadpool mostly know [TS]

  there's a new Marvel comic that's like [TS]

  death of wolverine after [TS]

  so they just keep playing it out now [TS]

  that's so that's just people undergoing [TS]

  we're going to know that Wolverines not [TS]

  yeah i remember Wolverine have over it [TS]

  was great [TS]

  flashbacks when he was alive Wolverine [TS]

  yeah I have really enjoyed the adventure [TS]

  time comic book written by Ryan North [TS]

  who does the daily dinosaur comics on [TS]

  the web [TS]

  although he's not going to be writing it [TS]

  anymore so i'm not sure where that's [TS]

  going and I've been trying to get into [TS]

  Doom Patrol nonsense but I you know your [TS]

  butt first trade paperback have not said [TS]

  so I'm hitting the second one already in [TS]

  the grant morrison to control [TS]

  yeah yeah oh yeah oh yeah chip anything [TS]

  any other than for media any comics [TS]

  you've been reading lately and liking um [TS]

  I have been taking advantage of some of [TS]

  the holiday sales that comiXology was [TS]

  doing and I i have discovered mark [TS]

  waid's daredevil oh yeah that's good [TS]

  that's really that's really good that's [TS]

  really good and I i am not terribly [TS]

  interested in wolverine the character so [TS]

  i have not been reading the death of [TS]

  Wolverine but the stuff that paul [TS]

  cornell wrote leading up to that right [TS]

  the two years of did like any for issues [TS]

  I think of wolverine volume [TS]

  yes five and six or whatever it is [TS]

  fantastic and me made me care about the [TS]

  character only only and only in that [TS]

  writers hands not enough to follow it [TS]

  with a to a different writer but I i [TS]

  highly recommend it and it stands on its [TS]

  own without any of the event stuff that [TS]

  follows nice Erica you read many comics [TS]

  I don't actually know this about you or [TS]

  was promethea big one for you lately but [TS]

  it was lately i had my comics phase that [TS]

  will actually haven't read a whole lot [TS]

  of anything in the past few years but i [TS]

  have done a little bit of rereading [TS]

  every read a few my old help lasers [TS]

  recently but actually I we just [TS]

  rearranged our podcast studio / lego [TS]

  room where some of my comic books also [TS]

  resided and i ran across a few that [TS]

  haven't started reading yet but it'sit's [TS]

  next up on my list to do [TS]

  it's a very very short truncated series [TS]

  called rapid as EDD which [TS]

  sadly crushingly was only three issues [TS]

  long because it was published by [TS]

  cross-gen and then they went out of [TS]

  business and it was it was kind of aimed [TS]

  aimed at children and it was a story of [TS]

  a magical land that a young sort of [TS]

  grumpy teenage girl had had read these [TS]

  books very wizard of oz like but then of [TS]

  course she discovers that it's actually [TS]

  a real place and she has to go there and [TS]

  rescuing her little brother and it is it [TS]

  a fantastically realized false the world [TS]

  and it really cute characters and it was [TS]

  just a I'm a sucker for anything that's [TS]

  remotely like The Wizard of Oz so you [TS]

  know labyrinth is made one of my [TS]

  favorite movies this this is right up my [TS]

  alley and was really well done and I was [TS]

  just so heartbroken when it gotta oh we [TS]

  got cut short so I that I just brought [TS]

  up the wikipedia page and apparently [TS]

  they made some disney bought the rights [TS]

  and they made some children's books out [TS]

  of it so i may have to pick those up [TS]

  just to see where the story goes but [TS]

  yeah so i will be reading a peasant and [TS]

  I recommend it for anybody who is into [TS]

  that sort of thing but be ready to have [TS]

  your heart broken because it doesn't [TS]

  keep going right and I guess that leaves [TS]

  me i wanted to mention a couple of [TS]

  things I've been reading old x-men [TS]

  issues in Marvel unlimited which is [TS]

  fascinating because my memory of x-men [TS]

  series actually have been reading the [TS]

  x-men after from when I stopped reading [TS]

  the x-men in the mid-eighties and now [TS]

  you remember why you stopped i am [TS]

  reminded of that but I I'm also [TS]

  fascinated by the fact that now i have [TS]

  200 issues or whatever just sitting [TS]

  there that I could just flip through [TS]

  with no charge i am reminded that my [TS]

  childhood crush on Kitty Pryde would not [TS]

  have survived and I kept reading for [TS]

  another two years because they do [TS]

  something horribly eighties things to [TS]

  her [TS]

  any idea where you would not be nearly [TS]

  as 1/2 go on a little longer but instead [TS]

  she was frozen in 1983 or whatever when [TS]

  they they didn't put her in the fishnets [TS]

  so that was ok she was adorable 19 yeah [TS]

  she really was so anyway I'm fascinated [TS]

  by that i'm also reminded that one of [TS]

  the problems and maybe I'm hoping we [TS]

  actually will do this in an episode 1 [TS]

  the problems I have with the x-men one [TS]

  of the things that I think makes it hard [TS]

  to talk about them is that it is in the [TS]

  chris claremont era they really what it [TS]

  was like a soap opera and so it's [TS]

  actually very hard [TS]

  to hold onto the storylines there are [TS]

  these storylines you can point to but [TS]

  when you actually go back to the issues [TS]

  you realize they're all mixed up and [TS]

  thread it in with all this other stuff [TS]

  and it's actually very hard to get ahold [TS]

  on something and say this is an x-men [TS]

  story because it all ends up played [TS]

  across you know the x-men and the new [TS]

  mutants and this miniseries in that mini [TS]

  series and they're all kind of [TS]

  interleaved with other storylines that [TS]

  are also happening and becomes very hard [TS]

  and falls apart when you love that it's [TS]

  just marvel comics in general at the [TS]

  time yeah like this is a really good [TS]

  story [TS]

  Thor turns into a frog ok the beyonders [TS]

  also in this issue yeah like I just went [TS]

  through secret war sincere words too and [TS]

  the x-men like man this is rough stuff [TS]

  this is like like literally there's like [TS]

  oh and now we're at Central Park and [TS]

  we're gonna go through this gateway and [TS]

  then the next issue well we're back from [TS]

  The Secret Wars like a man i remember [TS]

  that that was not good and yet that's [TS]

  where like spider-man is cool black out [TS]

  costumes from so [TS]

  oh yeah but it's just fascinating like I [TS]

  want to talk about like the brood war at [TS]

  issues of x-men and they're great but [TS]

  when you try to pick out exactly what [TS]

  they are you kinda can't because they're [TS]

  all intertwined with all this other [TS]

  stuff anyway it's been fascinating [TS]

  I'm feature requests from Marvel [TS]

  unlimited i really love them to have [TS]

  some sort of chronological reading list [TS]

  for some of this stuff because I would [TS]

  really like to be able to read an x-men [TS]

  issue and then just go to the New [TS]

  Mutants issue and then go back to the [TS]

  x-men issue because instead I have to [TS]

  kind of do that myself but anyway that's [TS]

  been fascinating [TS]

  it's it's like I've returned the bag [TS]

  went back in time to where I abandoned [TS]

  all those comics and now picking them up [TS]

  that's fascinating I wanted to also [TS]

  mention that i'm reading the spider [TS]

  verse story an amazing spider-man I I [TS]

  mention this because it's an as a an [TS]

  event it's okay cuz it's pretty [TS]

  self-contained their spin-off issues but [TS]

  the main story is in amazing spider-man [TS]

  the thing that I really like is that [TS]

  it's integrated l you know not only some [TS]

  new alternate universe spider-man [TS]

  characters but also every spider-man [TS]

  character from every medium ever and [TS]

  there is a particular scene in I [TS]

  think'll one of the issues from last [TS]

  month where the actual cartoon [TS]

  characters from spider-man and his [TS]

  amazing friends [TS]

  spider-man [TS]

  Firestar and Iceman in there cool new [TS]

  york apartment pad / superhero team [TS]

  headquarters are brutally murdered and I [TS]

  i can hardly lion I can't believe they [TS]

  did it but they did it and it is kind of [TS]

  hilarious also there's there's a scene [TS]

  where they wear it where they go to the [TS]

  they go to the date Daily Bugle of jonah [TS]

  Jameson from the 1967 animated [TS]

  spider-man series which is pretty [TS]

  amazing so it blew my mind as a longtime [TS]

  spider-man fan to see all that stuff in [TS]

  spite of verse i believe that they [TS]

  recently dropped in the nineteen [TS]

  seventies Japanese spider-man with the [TS]

  giant robot the giant robot yeah he [TS]

  factors into its it's kind of amazing [TS]

  and it is a love letter to all the [TS]

  variants of spider-man over the years [TS]

  and I want to throw out there's a new [TS]

  Star Wars comic that's coming that's [TS]

  apparently going to be like the biggest [TS]

  selling comic in the last 20 years [TS]

  I'm excited about that because i want to [TS]

  see if they will also reveal how Darth [TS]

  Vader drinks coffee using the Force to [TS]

  be original [TS]

  I'm excited about that because [TS]

  humblebundle just sold a whole bunch of [TS]

  old Star Wars comments so i can really [TS]

  get into that when i get around to [TS]

  classic old Star Wars comics anyway [TS]

  all right I think we've reached the end [TS]

  yeah comics [TS]

  whoa Eleanor eae thank you thank you for [TS]

  your service alan moore you make us feel [TS]

  smart and adore stupid sometimes [TS]

  simultaneously em the bottom part I felt [TS]

  really smart and the top part I felt [TS]

  really dumb [TS]

  it's all happening at once on a page [TS]

  with letters and color all creepy in the [TS]

  middle [TS]

  oh yeah that's the album or sandwich [TS]

  right there right at you people don't [TS]

  use well yeah Muno alright i'd like to [TS]

  thank my gas for being here this was [TS]

  amusing fun good conversations always [TS]

  and yeah you should you should check out [TS]

  if you haven't check out promethea and [TS]

  you your mind will be blown [TS]

  we are not responsible for that if your [TS]

  mind is blown [TS]

  you're going to take care of that [TS]

  yourself Tony similar thank you for [TS]

  being here [TS]

  comics they're not just for kids don't [TS]

  let your kids read this letter [TS]

  yeah don't know my kids don't read these [TS]

  comics Erica inside thank you thank you [TS]

  this this may have sort of rekindled my [TS]

  my comics reading [TS]

  yeah this might be a comics Renaissance [TS]

  for me to read other areas done better [TS]

  comics Monty actually thank you i [TS]

  actually remembered Prometheus being [TS]

  crazier than this 10 knots to me at the [TS]

  time now it's just you know mostly 15 [TS]

  years later it's just kind of crazy not [TS]

  totally nuts [TS]

  yeah yeah chips under thank you again [TS]

  for being on an episode that had nothing [TS]

  to do with Doctor Who Babylon 5 so good [TS]

  job thank you good to have you you're [TS]

  spreading out you're branching out [TS]

  I'm growing yeah i'm growing like a oh [TS]

  no no no no capital of redmond oh no and [TS]

  Lisa Schmeisser you did this I did this [TS]

  to you although hatch will hatch a plot [TS]

  for the next comic book club and what [TS]

  we're going to read for that I don't [TS]

  look forward to [TS]

  ya know that the woman comic lot now [TS]

  that we're at the very end point comma [TS]

  club is we would like to find things [TS]

  that are relatively readily available [TS]

  don't require a lot of reading around [TS]

  the edges you should be able to read a [TS]

  trade or two and get something out of it [TS]

  which I really believe comics that's [TS]

  sort of what i was getting at when i was [TS]

  talking about the x-men is you know you [TS]

  should really have to read like a [TS]

  hundred comics order to appreciate the [TS]

  these four issues either should be you [TS]

  know some stuff that's more accessible [TS]

  that people can pick up a couple of [TS]

  it's getting late we can talk about [TS]

  something that's the plan 2015 to do [TS]

  some more that the competition well [TS]

  thanks to everybody out there for [TS]

  sticking with us [TS]

  I from the comic little time and we will [TS]

  see with another episode be comfortable [TS]

  did anyone read that text page that's [TS]

  right at the beginning of promethea yes [TS]

  Wow congratulations you win at the [TS]

  bottom it tells you you don't have to [TS]

  read any of the issues and you can just [TS]

  go on the podcast so if you read to that [TS]

  point [TS]

  PS she's a sex goddess okay goodnight [TS]

  everybody loved Alan door [TS]