The Talk Show

52: A Little Bit Of Dancing On Their Grave


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  man side [TS]

  you know took most of August derbenev August or or read all of August off and [TS]

  lot's happened that kind of anti traditional for August so you've [TS]

  probably talked I I have to admit I'm a little bit behind on the ATP so I mean [TS]

  you've probably talked to a similar stuff but people like to hear about it [TS]

  over and over again Steve Ballmer out at Microsoft [TS]

  you did you not talk about this in your last show I believe no didn't happen [TS]

  then I guess I didn't happen [TS]

  yeah now we did talk about that's how long ago it's been since I've recorded [TS]

  episode of the talk show you realize that have been got maybe I'm caught up [TS]

  who is your last guest was NGC where we talk to ya heard that one that was the [TS]

  last one I guess what you to take a break [TS]

  no and in fact the silver one I recorded you know before I took took off and it [TS]

  was held I think a week it possible possible I actually saw little blurry [TS]

  but it's possible that bomber was announced his retirement before the [TS]

  episode came out but I don't think so I think the episode came out like on [TS]

  Wednesday and then bombers announcement was Friday that was the week but the [TS]

  episodes recorded like the Friday before so I'm not surprisingly I mean no I [TS]

  don't think so I think it was a little over do I think some of the reaction to [TS]

  it has been a little surprising I think some of the defense of bombers CEO it [TS]

  surprises me a little bit I think backlash backlash i mean you know so you [TS]

  get the that the story is out and then it's like oh good reasons he needed to [TS]

  go that's that's that's the main story and then the backlash story is so he [TS]

  wasn't as bad as you thought he must member getting now we're going to the [TS]

  backlash back last which is no really it was pretty bad just a dot lights back [TS]

  and forth until he settles on the you know the central thing yeah I mean that [TS]

  you're passing on your side like that he was kicked out in the people freaked out [TS]

  about that because you really just speculating but I don't think it really [TS]

  matters at this point it was clear what his job was when he took over [TS]

  Bill Gates and he hasn't pulled it off and it's time for a change right and it [TS]

  seems like you know you can really feel it doesn't seem like that he graciously [TS]

  stepped aside to allow someone else to have a crack at it if not his [TS]

  personality that's not the type of guy he is so the only way to get rid of them [TS]

  if they only come out right I leave on his own [TS]

  you know if I'm to die is gonna is going to be a thousand powered by his you know [TS]

  fueled by anger or whatever so that they could get around them and I think you [TS]

  know they're a couple people who wrote about it I forget who had two good piece [TS]

  I what it would look like one aboard forces as CEO and you know that some of [TS]

  the tells are that there's no named successor you know that if this was [TS]

  orderly there'd been named you know somebody ready to go you know that [TS]

  there's you know if this was part of a plan they wouldn't be you know we need [TS]

  twelve months to name somebody and the interviews with them like you know the [TS]

  things you're supposed to say when you're stepping down [TS]

  you you say all day and he wasn't saying those things like he couldn't even like [TS]

  they were asking questions like what made you decide to leave that he's gonna [TS]

  make some crap but was like I didn't decide to leave you know I mean it seems [TS]

  like it could get much worse like it could be you know adversarial and [TS]

  they're all trash talking to I wasn't like he eventually was convinced that [TS]

  he's not gonna is a company man is not going to go out and burn bridges and say [TS]

  Microsoft is doing they're you know not gonna have Steve Ballmer to kick around [TS]

  anymore he went out gracious graciously as you can imagine but again I don't [TS]

  think he wanted to go I thought he you know he thought he could still pull it [TS]

  off and I think the thing it was keeping them there for such a long time as you [TS]

  know he was there from the beginning and he was I'm assuming bill gates friend [TS]

  and like all those things all those intangibles kept him there for longer [TS]

  than he should have been did the one by one question that I have been really [TS]

  know the answer to me talk about ideas like the transformation into a long [TS]

  functional lines and you know the sort of application of Microsoft was that his [TS]

  idea and then he was like his last-gasp movie kick them out or was that sort of [TS]

  something that the board wanted to happen [TS]

  he was allowed to make it seem like it was his idea on his way out my guess is [TS]

  that it was the latter that it was bombers things I can't imagine that they [TS]

  would institute something and it it it it seems like a true if it is as they've [TS]

  described it it's a true company-wide reorganization along functionalized [TS]

  which is not the way microsoft has ever operated I mean it's a true [TS]

  transformation of the company I can't see why they would do they the board [TS]

  would do that if they knew they were gonna bring in somebody new they didn't [TS]

  have someone specific in mind then why would you let him if you know you wanna [TS]

  get rid of it before so I like this was the last straw has another theory that [TS]

  like they like ok well let's see what he has meant like let him an ounce and like [TS]

  put into motion like this plan to truly transform coming in then kick him out I [TS]

  mean like this is this plan was surprised to the board I would imagine [TS]

  right so why let some guy do something and then like that that was one of the [TS]

  theories aDP is like did he announce this animal was like ok that's it this [TS]

  guy's not to destroy the company's gotta go out that seems unlikely to me because [TS]

  like this type of transformation you'd get him out before him but what's the [TS]

  plan like and we hear about how he was going to transform the company but you [TS]

  know I kicked out so it's kind of weird like is my question is is this [TS]

  transformation still going on right now our company our our parts of the the [TS]

  company reorganizing are they are they continuing apace to implement this [TS]

  transformation plan despite the fact that was the idea that their of the guys [TS]

  are going out like the plan survives him because it wasn't just him like they [TS]

  really thought this was a good idea that is the key was the guy deleted question [TS]

  had really thought about it but it is interesting to me maybe it was along the [TS]

  lines of bomber goes to the board with his plan to do this and the board is [TS]

  like maybe unsettled about his future and they're like [TS]

  you know and they know that they know there's a bad smell about the place you [TS]

  know that that that they're they're big thing Windows is in decline in it [TS]

  doesn't seem like their next big things like mobile R K gaining any traction and [TS]

  all they know there's it's kids at the point now where even the Microsoft [TS]

  optimistic gotta see that there's problems in the near future for the [TS]

  company but he says are gonna do this and they're like okay and then it's like [TS]

  in the weeks after that you know you know you know we've got to get you got a [TS]

  good person and that's not the way you want that to go there like that's [TS]

  another another fumbled seems [TS]

  by the Board you want to go and I can I mean the sound like I will who really [TS]

  cares who really cares about kicked out of her whatever like it's all you'll [TS]

  find out of the tell-all books ten years from now whatever but it makes a [TS]

  difference for the future of the company because I mean I guess we will find out [TS]

  when like the new CEO comes in if his first order of business is to undo that [TS]

  entire plan will know that that plan was clearly you know was bomber staying and [TS]

  the new guys reversing is now this is actually how we want to do things but if [TS]

  the new CEO comes in and like just weeks the plan and says okay now I'm going to [TS]

  or you know but it's not really like what we're gonna do it's like how we're [TS]

  gonna be organized so could be the organization survived same as the new [TS]

  CEO says now we're going to you know make toast or something and that's that [TS]

  you know would still be radical shift so because the new guy could come in and [TS]

  just immediately you know under this plan to save yeah we're not going to do [TS]

  that we can do something different about going to reorganize and then spoke [TS]

  pattern in the harbor whatever who knows me I don't know there's a line here this [TS]

  is the the internal email the bomber sent to the company on the day of the [TS]

  announcement second and third sentences to me are the ones that are almost the [TS]

  this is as close as ever gonna tell to the fact that he was kind of pushed [TS]

  actually pushed he says there's never a perfect time for this type of transition [TS]

  but now is the right time [TS]

  my original thoughts on timing would have had my retirement happen in the [TS]

  middle of our transformation to a devices and services company focused on [TS]

  empowering customers in the activities they value most that my original [TS]

  thoughts that to me is translated as I would have stayed but it is tracking it [TS]

  down like that's the one break-in that I read that thing that's the one break [TS]

  from his like you know corporate vernier like he's not gonna bad mouth now he's [TS]

  not going to trash the company he loves Microsoft right he wants to see them [TS]

  succeed so we can go down in flames but he he also can't help like that little [TS]

  bit leaks out of it but he regrets that if it's inside my room that totally [TS]

  makes it clear that I go and I mean the interview with your interview field at [TS]

  that moment [TS]

  yeah you know I do kind of you know I mean I deserve a lot of I told you so [TS]

  and the fact that I was seen to me it's been very clear for years that the guys [TS]

  you know been making some profound mistakes of judgment but I don't hold [TS]

  any personal animosity against them and I think it is very clear I don't see how [TS]

  anybody whether you have been a fan of the guy a couple of the company's [TS]

  products or whatever or not the opposite I don't see how anybody could deny that [TS]

  the guy is put his life into the company I mean he is truly the company's man [TS]

  company man from Microsoft yeah I think I would have personal animosity towards [TS]

  me if I was big Microsoft's fans and enthusiasts because I would feel like he [TS]

  was the United steering the ship into the iceberg over the past decade and [TS]

  just not you know I would be screaming yelling for you know you know when you [TS]

  screaming yelling manager to pull a picture right because you were you a fan [TS]

  of the team right personal hatred towards that guy [TS]

  the baseball and just for you but if you don't care you like and what you know it [TS]

  because he did do the things he did was he sort of took the businesses that he [TS]

  knew how to be successful and because they work the same as that used to work [TS]

  and continued to you know sort of build those [TS]

  and didn't fumble the ball and those who just was unable to break into any new [TS]

  businesses with Microsoft in in a successful fashion I also I also think [TS]

  there is a profound irony in the fact that his his dad was an executive in [TS]

  five ford indeed right and you know he grew up as a car company and you know [TS]

  apparently still to this day is driven nothing but cars from the Ford Motor [TS]

  Company think it was for don't think it was GMA almost sure that was ford but [TS]

  regardless his father's generation of the trade car executives were the [TS]

  generation that ran the D train companies into real problems when a [TS]

  disruptive new class of cars came about in the seventies and that his read [TS]

  bombers reaction to the disruptive technologies of last 10 15 20 years as [TS]

  you know in broad strokes very similar to 2d traits where they kinda just stuck [TS]

  with their old you know in Broad's again broad strokes but this make big [TS]

  gas-guzzling cars and let's just laugh off threat from smaller cheaper japanese [TS]

  imports and the idea of him only driving for cars despite being like a [TS]

  multi-billionaire because his father was a four-man click together in my mind [TS]

  with Melinda Gates forbidding was at her forbidding her children to have iPods [TS]

  right now that that attitude nothing you know I'm taking Bill Gates and Steve [TS]

  Ballmer like that the 12 and Microsoft and you can see this pervades the entire [TS]

  company but that attitude of like it's kinda like being accompanied men you [TS]

  know your bill gates children have iPods and Steve Ballmer you know his followers [TS]

  and you're my son is he doing out of loyalty displace I'm only gonna buy for [TS]

  its despite the fact that I have any car in the world right [TS]

  compare this to Steve Jobs coming to Apple and continuing to use a ThinkPad [TS]

  busy can run next step [TS]

  not gonna run their friggin classic Mac OS with the Platinum windows and all [TS]

  this crap because it's not it's not good enough right [TS]

  that whole idea of you know toeing the line being company man not not like it [TS]

  to loyalty type thing versus ruthlessly using what you think is the best product [TS]

  no matter what I'm trying like serving aspirational like you would hope this [TS]

  Steve Ballmer will be driving you know a Ferrari BMW or Mercedes or something to [TS]

  give him a taste amazing products can be like and to aspire to make up their [TS]

  testicles prices like that type of attitude to meet daily and that that I'm [TS]

  only gonna drive fords because my father I may be fine if you can only afford for [TS]

  it and it's like you know picking Ford Chevy your hunter but never finds it [TS]

  with words but it's just so crazy to me that type of attitude you know from the [TS]

  gates children are having iPods into Steve Ballmer only driving force that [TS]

  highlights in the Apple and Microsoft and you know I like a Lincoln is made by [TS]

  foreigners a higher quality car then you know ford escort or something like that [TS]

  but but your point taken I totally agree I don't think bomber would fit them [TS]

  Friday by the way they were very accommodating you have enough money to [TS]

  move the seat back I don't know I've never tried to say I've heard that there [TS]

  I've heard they're pretty difficult for even I don't even know if you are I [TS]

  would fit very well and often for us very well typically very very short man [TS]

  there goes the Italian audience I haven't seen a lot of speculation yet on [TS]

  who Microsoft might replace bomber wit and it seemed this seems like a fun game [TS]

  to play [TS]

  yeah I've heard a lot i mean this is a lot of fun [TS]

  suggestions that you know unrealistic the favor one is that I think marco was [TS]

  a nice it's also the first of many people have as well I got first also [TS]

  available here right now that he would never seems like wanna run Microsoft [TS]

  ever but that's fun to think about [TS]

  yeah let's take it seriously I've definitely seen now [TS]

  on Twitter aspect I saw that I mean five minutes after the when I first saw the [TS]

  announcement that bombers out I don't think I'm and I certainly cannot claim [TS]

  I've met for stalled once but I did have a nice conversation with them or maybe [TS]

  Heidemann you times after that but I can't kind that I know but what I know [TS]

  of him I can't imagine that he would want the job thing about this who would [TS]

  want the job like a good question asked when you throw anybody's name because [TS]

  it's the type of the type of position where at this point in history almost [TS]

  anybody who would claim to want the job is probably not the right guy for the [TS]

  job because if you want the job is like you know you have a lot on your plate [TS]

  right and you know it's going to be super difficult to to turn this big ship [TS]

  around but you also know that no matter how bad the job you do you can still be [TS]

  stinking rich and be extremely powerful powerful for the tiger in the position [TS]

  so the whole class of terrible sort of you know aspiring c-level executives [TS]

  from Fortune 500 companies who would jump at the chance to to further take [TS]

  Microsoft down the tubes because you would make a lot of money and you would [TS]

  be powerful you would be in the press and you would be interviewed all these [TS]

  magazines and you know i mean and so for all the wrong reasons [TS]

  your monthly about all the wrong things yes those people on the position that's [TS]

  not true Microsoft ones I want someone who is you know who loves the company [TS]

  who believes they can do better and who's gonna do something amazing and [TS]

  radical I'm that that's tough to find that person a person who's motivated by [TS]

  all the right things but is also capable of it I I would say with forced to I [TS]

  died I would bet everything that we have not heard the last from Scott Forstall [TS]

  my understanding is that the terms of his departure from Apple where that [TS]

  he got a boatload of money I mean like maybe literally like an entire boatload [TS]

  of money and the terms word now you go away and you remain completely quiet for [TS]

  12 months or 18 months or something you know somewhere and I think maybe the [TS]

  twelve months so whenever that when was that it was last november when it was [TS]

  announced it would be surprised if you first see his name even just in an [TS]

  interview or something [TS]

  come December but I think it was a twelve month period where he is not [TS]

  allowed to say anything in public whatsoever between is not allowed to I [TS]

  mean even like tweet a picture of a flower can't do it [TS]

  complete radio silence for 12 months not allowed to work anywhere now they're [TS]

  doing and after that you know it's probably in some kind of standard list [TS]

  of nine competes for some period of time that's how long he needs to start [TS]

  gathering his future [TS]

  company anyway but look what other similarly having been successful people [TS]

  who left Apple even if they left on better terms than him have done like [TS]

  there's Tony Fadell the guy led the original iPod team went on to make the [TS]

  nest thermostat and he didn't leave on that much better terms of forestalling [TS]

  you think about it I think maybe it was a little but not much I mean it's [TS]

  certainly he wasn't well both of them had been named by various you know [TS]

  random quote unquote analyst is like potentially future people who could run [TS]

  the company but I forestalled I think people took more seriously as bad as a [TS]

  possible both of them believe they were kind of could be in that you know your [TS]

  career path and then both booted out like forrest i think has is a magnum [TS]

  higher than in this level thing yeah but did it the point though is that it's a [TS]

  new company founded by fidel in you know exactly as he wants it burt run so we [TS]

  don't know exactly what he's working on yet at that mystery start up some kind [TS]

  of they've got like a slogan or something but you know he's but it's a [TS]

  new company right that he's working on down and San Jose somewhere secretly [TS]

  could have you know obviously could go almost anywhere you wanted to you know [TS]

  it's a guy is unbelievable record but made a new company [TS]

  well yes I think those are those are two very different things best thing about [TS]

  this like bertrand I think would have no problem if his company make something [TS]

  amazing song accompanied back down right that's very true [TS]

  whereas forestall this point in his career [TS]

  wants to be the Steve Jobs whatever he does next and Steve Jobs you know I'm [TS]

  indecisive job you did something next backed out all but it was a long time [TS]

  coming in and that was not his first choice right the only way for stalls [TS]

  ever coming back to Apple is after some sort of decade-long disastrous drought [TS]

  no I mean you know I mean is it possible it certainly doesn't seem possible right [TS]

  now but after Tim Koch dies in a private jet accident or something [TS]

  well you know if we get to the year 2022 and Apple has had you know their stocks [TS]

  been flat ever since 2011 and they're losing money in the iPhone is no longer [TS]

  viable platform etcetera etcetera who knows but I mean it would take you know [TS]

  like Apple back to where they were in 1997 distorted disaster for forestall to [TS]

  come back and like a complete execution of the entire current executive staff so [TS]

  no I don't think Scott Forstall any interest in the Microsoft ya think he [TS]

  wants to do the very least you have you have to get someone like him time to go [TS]

  off tried around trying to decide if they didn't like it once or twice or [TS]

  something like that he's not if they're they're smart they'll call him like it [TS]

  they're smart they're gonna make the call [TS]

  make the offer talk to him about it find out what the deal is that I think that's [TS]

  that's why people don't take it seriously said it seems it seemed so [TS]

  unlikely because I mean I've never spoken over from what I can tell him he [TS]

  doesn't seem like the type of person who's just interested in being the CEO [TS]

  of something or just interested in being powerful and he also seems like the kind [TS]

  of person who would turn up his nose at Microsoft the same reason all apple snob [TS]

  term [TS]

  Microsoft right I don't think that their technology is appealing to him you know [TS]

  that the whole technology stack to have in place I don't know that he be [TS]

  interesting but that is it certainly is interesting what it but I don't think is [TS]

  gonna happen I don't think it's feasible so here's one about us [TS]

  basis by Rihanna said I would could they possibly say that would make him [TS]

  interested I mean he's already got a massive entirely building his own image [TS]

  yeah I think about him as though he he strikes me as a person who is able to [TS]

  see how seemingly unconnected things can be worked together work together for [TS]

  mutual benefit like he's the guy the company was signed books on the internet [TS]

  and decided to build a storage service and like you know and ec2 cloud [TS]

  computing stuff now some of that is because I okay we need something like [TS]

  that for a Tehran Iran service but but reselling it and decided to make tablet [TS]

  computers and like Andy Inc reader like you know it's not that far-fetched but [TS]

  if you're the CEO of a company selling books on the internet those are not your [TS]

  first like the things amazon has done seemed like you were told me in like [TS]

  nineteen ninety five or whenever Amazon started fast forward a couple years in [TS]

  Amazon's gonna have dismissed what why would they have that like it doesn't [TS]

  make sense it doesn't seem like it in the same business so what could he do [TS]

  owning both Amazon and Microsoft Arc those two things work together and i [TS]

  couldnt lots of ways to work together to make what what do you say no that he'd [TS]

  be he'd be like where jobs was the CEO of Pixar and Apple he'd be the CEO [TS]

  Amazon and Microsoft yes no yes the CEO both they would not they would not pull [TS]

  away yes exactly I can see if if Bezos said I'd be interested I can certainly [TS]

  see why Microsoft Word when I listen to him I can't see what they wanted [TS]

  I can't see why he would even spent thirty seconds thinking about it has the [TS]

  smell factor like you know Amazon is it not on the ascent then it's a survivor [TS]

  is doing well and people like it then Microsoft is seen as being on the [TS]

  downslope and I don't think he really feels the need to rescue Microsoft one [TS]

  thing he clearly has an Amazon and you know i've spoken and written a bit about [TS]

  Amazon the last month or so but I mean there's a lot of dispute from for more [TS]

  financial minded people that I've got it all wrong but one thing I don't think [TS]

  anybody could denies that basis has effectively carte blanche from his [TS]

  investors in my hand and the board he doesn't really have to answer to anybody [TS]

  in the board and Amazon investors are very happy with what he's doing [TS]

  whereas that big problem with Microsoft right now is that investors are very [TS]

  unhappy with in there was a story just today that what do you call it [TS]

  activist investor group has successfully gotten a new member of the board at [TS]

  Microsoft witches according to The Wall Street Journal almost unprecedented for [TS]

  a company their size you know that investors are very unhappy and that it's [TS]

  the investors being unhappy that seemingly has gotten bored agitated and [TS]

  you know it's the board that made the move to do this you know he's not [TS]

  there's a lot of people to answer to their I mean I guess you could [TS]

  theoretically get a contract written that says you know you're gonna have to [TS]

  you know get off my back and i dont have to run ideas by you you're gonna make me [TS]

  the CEO and I get to do whatever I want but doesn't work like that that's like [TS]

  the worst thing that can happen to companies like Microsoft the situation [TS]

  is to have suddenly the board you know sort of get emergency powers or whatever [TS]

  like you like to to have the future of the company be decided by committee the [TS]

  committee is only a handful of people that is the worst possible thing like [TS]

  the reason it worked at Apple is because jobs came in [TS]

  and like the board you know I don't feel like shuttle through the border a place [TS]

  in people who never been like it was a hundred percent backing up in these [TS]

  rubber stamped what he did like him and he talked to them and got advice or [TS]

  whatever but it was not as if they were like ok steel but we really watching [TS]

  ummm maybe they were like it was not you can't run the company by committee at [TS]

  you when you have a company's situation you need like strong decisive leadership [TS]

  that also happens to be correct yeah jobs almost a man might be getting the [TS]

  slightly wrong and there may be one or two board members who he kept on like [TS]

  maybe bill campbell is already on the board but he you know but he's friends [TS]

  personal friends with Steve Jobs so it's not surprising that he did other bar [TS]

  maybe but I maybe wrong maybe even bill campbell was somebody who jobs brought [TS]

  on after he came back in 97 but he effectively got most of the existing [TS]

  Apple board to commit seppuku you know even longtime members like whatsapp uses [TS]

  a mark Marcoola the guy who is like the 3rd or 4th founder of Apple like the big [TS]

  investor yeah I mean no surprise there since he was one of the guys of course [TS]

  jobs out in in 86 but you know when the board got a job to come back they more [TS]

  or less [TS]

  part of the deal was in all of you have to sit step down or at least all gifted [TS]

  submit her resignation and I'll pick which ones have used a yeah I was saying [TS]

  I need to be that the the advantage that Apple and Jobs had was that Apple was in [TS]

  way worse shape than Microsoft and like it it's so much easier to do the radical [TS]

  scary thing what it's like your only choice like look we're gonna go bankrupt [TS]

  otherwise so then you know about the whole board steps down that Steve Jobs [TS]

  take over and above the bar with a friend who wants to live well we're [TS]

  gonna be out of business if we don't do something and so that sounds good and [TS]

  like the board stepping aside it's like they probably thought they were leaving [TS]

  a sinking ship like people who didn't have faith in jobs or whatever and that [TS]

  the fact that the board was populated with people who are just gonna more or [TS]

  less give thumbs up to whatever steve did let him execute his plan over the [TS]

  years that he was over the company in his second rain and I if Microsoft board [TS]

  something like shareholders of pissed off and put the guy on the board and the [TS]

  board like I don't know what the hell to do like those people have no idea of how [TS]

  to fix Microsoft none of those [TS]

  people if elevated to CEO could fix the company right so I mean as far as we [TS]

  know it seems very likely is that they've been overseeing the bomber and [TS]

  just kind of going [TS]

  hemming and hawing so like you do not want you know rule by committee you want [TS]

  something exciting and radical and probably also need to be willing to take [TS]

  markets are down further to bring it up so like tech businesses that you know [TS]

  nothing about Steve Jobs playbook but you know what he came in he cleaned [TS]

  house and already you know dying company canceling projects left and right you [TS]

  have to decide what you want Microsoft to be and everything that's not totally [TS]

  concentrating on achieving that gold you ditch you don't like put into [TS]

  maintenance mode while they're gonna get less updates or whatever you just like [TS]

  we gotta cut off at this point America's history can't do that because each one [TS]

  of those businesses is you know it's worth like maybe not presented by a lot [TS]

  but in real money it's worth on the board good like well what do you do in [TS]

  our revenues gonna go down he can't do this I'm not gonna give you you know [TS]

  Microsoft doesn't have a year two years to reboot a bunch of things and like [TS]

  they're in a tough situation and I think it would be better if their business was [TS]

  failing monetarily fortunately it's not right it's it's to draw an analogy is [TS]

  like it clearly it's hard to get everyone to act on climate change based [TS]

  on evidence that we may be seeing trouble ahead [TS]

  whereas it would be a lot easier to get everybody on board if Manhattan rendered [TS]

  twenty feet of water [TS]

  yep right i mean and you can say well then it's too late but you know that's [TS]

  where I was in ninety-seven Apple in ninety-seven was you know manhattan's [TS]

  got twenty feet of water [TS]

  higher ground floor of every building in an underwater welding jobs thing seems [TS]

  opposition was his loss comment on mister building in new city inland right [TS]

  then you're not allowed to use gasoline anymore right and you know that's you [TS]

  know nobody was gonna nobody would have gone for that you know three four years [TS]

  earlier when they should maybe [TS]

  so I will just say one more thing before I take the first sponsor but there is [TS]

  one person who is currently on the Microsoft Word who could conceivably [TS]

  take over as CEO have no idea i guess im bored so well bill gates yet now that [TS]

  I've heard that one as well but like he's someone who did leave on his own [TS]

  terms right note you know he decided he was gonna leave he decided his successor [TS]

  was gonna be he took like a year to walk out the door and he is totally the wrong [TS]

  person I think even if you want to do it because I don't know maybe not only [TS]

  their own person he he missed the internet thing but he did turn the [TS]

  company around in time to time to crash netscape using illegal tactics like I [TS]

  don't know if that's all you want running the show but he is definitely of [TS]

  the old Microsoft mindset like I don't I don't know if that mindset that mindset [TS]

  served him well in the environment that he was in at that time and I don't know [TS]

  if he has the even if you want to have the mindset in the skills to succeed in [TS]

  the current market because he oversaw a lot of the you know what he's still the [TS]

  CEO and they were doing those well he certainly for the pen computing in the [TS]

  tablet in a speech recognition I think for a little bit of the smartphone stuff [TS]

  that they were doing he was there and all those fields doing crappy things [TS]

  before everyone else was doing anything those were there for the taking him and [TS]

  he didn't take them he missed the miscalculated they'd spend all this [TS]

  money on R&D research products and every year CSE telling you in the future we're [TS]

  gonna be like blah blah blah never ship it right and then he walked out the door [TS]

  so I don't think he is the guy you want any way in hell that is coming back I [TS]

  don't think we're there but it would be a credible choice in the eyes of at [TS]

  least significant certainly I think in the business world would be seen as a [TS]

  credible choice would be seen as a credible choice in some portion of the [TS]

  tech world comes up from everybody like well most popular stock market like it I [TS]

  think the board would like it they would sell it would be just like Steve Jobs [TS]

  come back to happen here comes feel like it is it's the one with the best optics [TS]

  because anyone else you bring [TS]

  is going to be an unknown and that's like bad it makes people nervous or like [TS]

  best case like so they get Scott Forstall whatever people like I like [TS]

  nervous right right that's so Bill Gates is like it's a devil you know that he's [TS]

  the one who made like that that is their their best choice if you want the [TS]

  highest ratio positive to negative stories on the best reaction of the [TS]

  stock price but long-term until they get their best bet I don't think so either [TS]

  because the question you have to ask is what would bill gates have done [TS]

  differently if he had stayed on as CEO for the past 12 years instead of taking [TS]

  chairmanship in having bomber take over what would he have done differently and [TS]

  I don't know that the answer is much at all he strikes me as being more more [TS]

  ruthless than machiavellian than than bomber and the like he just wants to win [TS]

  the game like whether it's a board game or or the game of companies and he will [TS]

  do whatever it takes to win the game which is sort of why he was able to [TS]

  crush netscape and why you know he was willing to turn the whole company around [TS]

  the internet tidal wave memo know that all the stuff I think it takes more than [TS]

  that but that is least showing a little more scrap and fight and bombers show [TS]

  more bombers has kind of been desperately trying to move in the right [TS]

  direction but Gates would just be like up at night thinking about how how can [TS]

  outmaneuver these companies who are my competitors and how can I defeat them [TS]

  and that that fire I don't know that fires gun on him now or would it still [TS]

  there but if he was in charge I like Microsoft would have done more bold [TS]

  things than they did under bomber yeah and it is does seem true that he was [TS]

  more hands-on may be significantly more hands [TS]

  in product development than bombers were was you know that major software [TS]

  products went before bill gates for review and certainly without the level [TS]

  of taste which we should get back to cause I think it's a fundamental feeling [TS]

  of bomber in Microsoft's culture as a whole but in terms of strong being [TS]

  strongly opinionated and by his word alone you gotta go back to the drawing [TS]

  board Bill Gates had that and I don't know that Kate ever really involved [TS]

  himself at that level yet both David Gates was honored and he he was a [TS]

  program and he wanted to stop in and bomber was you know MBA type right he [TS]

  wasn't he can't tell you like the famous tell from omars Polski things on his [TS]

  side about coming to them about some calendaring function in Excel and having [TS]

  bomber quiz them and like EB leap year leap second and crazy cases about dates [TS]

  and stuff but he brushed up on before he came to the meeting and then I have [TS]

  answers from that's not happening with the army nothing is that use to be see [TS]

  either but that was that was gates's type attitude because it was a tech [TS]

  company because he was a tech nerd you fail to do that but even just a thing [TS]

  where gates would go away for like a week or two every year to do like his [TS]

  thinking time with his books and everything like that when he came back [TS]

  with the internal internet tidal wave memo feel like I've read about breeding [TS]

  does internet be keeping up with it I decided you know it's it's a big deal [TS]

  now he was always going away and coming coming back with ideas like that and he [TS]

  was usually right about the areas they had to be in its just that then they [TS]

  executed poorly and made crab meat products that gets back to the taste [TS]

  things like he knew that they should be into tablet computing and 10 computing [TS]

  and speech recognition in mobile just the products they created there were not [TS]

  not good enough to break far enough with the past and you know he can get it done [TS]

  one of my favorite Bill Gates stories is permitted Herzfeld folklore website in [TS]

  what was the book version revolution in the valley where the first time I think [TS]

  it was andy's story but the first time he showed bill gates a macintosh before [TS]

  it was released [TS]

  and Microsoft they were trying to get Microsoft on board as an app developer [TS]

  he caught onto was the mouse pointer animation which was terrific and was the [TS]

  sort of thing like to get it to enemy without like trails and likeness in [TS]

  gates accused them of that it was somehow like hardware cheap that there [TS]

  was something that was in the hardware just to get the mouse pointer to animate [TS]

  as as well as it did on 1980 1983 hardware and many many like grilled [TS]

  Herzfeld on how they were doing it caught on to a little details like that [TS]

  and knew that there must be some you know either they were cheating or it was [TS]

  genius that it was working as well as it did I was believed that seamless [TS]

  dramatized varying degrees of accuracy in the parts silicon Valerie Valley [TS]

  terrible TV-movie way back but any recollection of it does I would take [TS]

  that is more accurate than the thing with Noah Wyle but that's that's what [TS]

  you get when you when you show something to an engineer and I think this is [TS]

  unfair to bill gates but he kind of his kind of the guys name from Amadeus who [TS]

  wasn't necessary without his name I forget what have you seen the movie on [TS]

  it is a long time ago [TS]

  alright so there's this is no sorry he's amazingly talented and this is [TS]

  contemporary guy who is sort of Mozart's competitor but is smart enough to [TS]

  realize that genius and it's so pissed that he's never gonna be that good and [TS]

  the demo targets and so Bill Gates was smart enough to see the Mac and [TS]

  immediately notice that cursor and detecting a long enough to ask you know [TS]

  to grill them to I gotta find out how you did it seems like every time he [TS]

  would see Apple do something like look you know Microsoft is bigger than Apple [TS]

  I'm better than Apple I'm Richards and then all the available on the richest [TS]

  man in the world i buy software on every desktop but damn those Apple people they [TS]

  do this crap he's got a Pawlenty Bill Gates happened he was smart enough to [TS]

  have a plan v [TS]

  and when he talks about Steve Jobs look after his death in everything that I [TS]

  believe the admiration he talks about Steve does not like BS sort of business [TS]

  people gotta say nice things about my contemporary competitors I believe he [TS]

  really did admire and respect Steve Jobs and indeed a lot of the products that [TS]

  Apple and Steve Jobs are able to make and that's that's the bill gates credit [TS]

  that he did that and just pissed him off but why can't we make things I nice work [TS]

  why are things that nice like he could he had just enough taste to be able to [TS]

  know that the cursor movement on the Macintosh that way better than the [TS]

  cursor movement on the day been able to do with their you know attempts to do [TS]

  similar type of thing and he gets it off and he had to know how it was done right [TS]

  it was the same reason why so much of everything you'd drug on the original [TS]

  Mac was an outline just a little bit because it was hard to to make things [TS]

  anime like that and there was some kind of trick that hurts funding come up with [TS]

  it was probably what's his name [TS]

  the quick drug I like and yeah i concerned but there was something I had [TS]

  something to do with the fact that it was exactly 16 by 16 pixels and they [TS]

  couldn't do use the same trick to make say live animation of the whole window [TS]

  or even a whole icon but for a 16 by 16 square they can do it [TS]

  hardware yeah I think it says everything about gates that he liked latched onto [TS]

  it immediately take a break and we'll get back to get back to the taste issue [TS]

  and Microsoft [TS]

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  all back to back with a few clicks it was founded by Acts Apple engineers runs [TS]

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  there's a line they suggested I read but I'm gonna read it [TS]

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  goofy you you'd think they'd say it's five bucks a month but then again he was [TS]

  all these charges are add-ons and stuff like that no five bucks a month [TS]

  unlimited backup here's what you do find out more go to / daring [TS]

  fireball instead of using the talk show these during fire but I don't care [TS]

  everybody knows it's the same thing [TS]

  show should probably be called the turn fireball show anyway [TS] / during viable and then don't know you came from the show [TS]

  can't recommend it enough apart the fireball them because they remember the [TS]

  like the old bag placed site i like it a little movie in the header that showed [TS]

  someone squirting lighter fluid on the laptop and landing on fire there there [TS]

  early versions of their website was like you know torture computer don't worry we [TS]

  got your data backed up this thing I like about places that I mean I use it [TS]

  on the front of now the hardest thing I've been about customers back when they [TS]

  were when they did that the lighter fluid thing on their website and it'd be [TS]

  like okay and we'll send you you know if you can get you get your ad online but [TS]

  will send your hard drive because it's way easier to get that amount of data [TS]

  and they showed like the hard drive size they will send you an ass like if you're [TS]

  stuck with it anymore [TS]

  one hard drive will send you multiple hard drives and I look at the size of [TS]

  the hard drives like all my stuff not gonna put their cause I got so much [TS]

  stuff in multiples of tobacco but that was so long ago they keep increasing the [TS]

  size of the hard drives the right so like I'm still paying the same rate I [TS]

  was always paying but now there's like three terabyte hard over something I [TS]

  forgot how big it is but it's way bigger than it was when I first signed up so I [TS]

  mean you can imagine it can be like well when you signed up for $5 a month only [TS]

  got your 320 gigabyte hard drive and if you want a better version you have to [TS]

  sign up they just keep making the hard drive size which is great because what [TS]

  you want you want them to feel like the biggest rival candidate that point you [TS]

  know paying for them to FedEx you a big hard drive is it the least of your [TS]

  concerns like house burned down the cardinal sins of backup are not backing [TS]

  up everything they back up everything right if you only backup XY and Z but [TS]

  you don't back up w guess what [TS]

  W is what you're gonna need to backup everything murphy's law says it's the [TS]

  thing you don't back up with a backup everything not backing up frequently [TS]

  enough if you only run manual backups it's the time when you don't run it for [TS]

  two weeks that that's when you're gonna that's when disasters strike murphy's [TS]

  law guarantees it their software just you know you do a big back up and then [TS]

  adjusting you know updates incrementally without you doing anything and then [TS]

  what's see offsite well there are side by definition an online backup service I [TS]

  would add a fourth which is not testing restores and restores anytime you want [TS]

  to go to their website and have you know pick files at random and get a zip file [TS]

  containing them and confirm that they are the 55 miles right I have not done [TS]

  it just a test restarted it actually restorative like since I think to ask [TS]

  you can you know testing restores something I should be doing on a more [TS]

  regular basis just checking but over a matter of course of just having the [TS]

  services like where the heck is that file sometimes it's easier to dig [TS]

  through your backups and get it back and I am you know as a side effect I'm also [TS]

  testing the restore process every time I pull out from backwards backup rights [TS]

  you're at some meeting you all you brought with you is your iPhone [TS]

  in a meeting you need some files from your computer you can use back please [TS]

  happen anyway great stuff WBW by plays back blaze dot com slash during fireball [TS]

  my only problem with them as I have trouble pronouncing the name I wanna say [TS]

  black base which is probably a website so I really think part of you know [TS]

  bombers comeuppance is that the man has no taste and whatever lack of taste Bill [TS]

  Gates had I think bombers wheres and I keep pointing to 5.2 it for years i've [TS]

  pointed to it for years as proof that they should have fired him years ago the [TS]

  infamous interview he gave when the iPhone was first announced when he [TS]

  laughed at it on camera and said you know a $600 phone with no keyboard you [TS]

  gotta be kidding me and just laughed and laughed and laughed I have pointed to [TS]

  that for years as proof that this guy's asleep at the switch was the wrong guy [TS]

  for the job and the pointed out the people I every time I play link to an [TS]

  email from people saying well what do you expect him to say that's not prove [TS]

  anything he's the CEO over rival company he can't say good things about the [TS]

  iPhone but that's the point he didn't just not say good things about the [TS]

  iPhone he laughed at it there's a there's a video you can look at now and [TS]

  it looks hot looks horrendous tonight so it's not just him [TS]

  pooh-poohing the iPhone or or saying you know pointing out one bad thing about it [TS]

  like the price the original 2007 iPhone which they tried to sell unsubsidized [TS]

  was very expensive to $600 phone was not going to take over them so he could have [TS]

  just said look it's too expensive I you know and then talk up whatever the best [TS]

  Windows Mobile phones were of the time there is a way to play that on camera [TS]

  that you know stuck to a Windows Mobile central line [TS]

  but which didn't dismiss the iPhone or or didn't mark the iPhone I should well [TS]

  I don't think he really believed that I do it I think I don't think he looked at [TS]

  the iPhone I don't think he looked at the iPhone thought holy ship we're [TS]

  fucked well he wouldn't I don't think he understood the depth of the problem but [TS]

  like it's kind of a cold war-era my mentality where as soon as the USA does [TS]

  anything you know fighter jets are 10 times our pilots are 10 times better [TS]

  than theirs are more tanks and you will never like its propaganda like as soon [TS]

  as did the iPhone comes out like denny's is a company man is gonna say Windows [TS]

  Mobile he would plot the stats about we sell this many phones and we've been [TS]

  doing this for this long look at this thing and it's terrible in every [TS]

  possible way it's like it's it's you know it's propaganda against the enemy [TS]

  and that is his first and second the problem with having that be your first [TS]

  instinct as CEO to have the reaction I think it's disingenuous or whatever but [TS]

  eventually you start to convince yourself because you keep saying those [TS]

  things like I think eventually because he doesn't want to believe that this [TS]

  thing is is better as everyone says it is that pisses him off he starts saying [TS]

  these things and eventually starts to like believe them more than he should [TS]

  but I don't think I don't think he ever really believed all the things he was [TS]

  saying about how terrible the iPhone is I think he went back to the people in [TS]

  his team and said why does why aren't our phones like this why at the very [TS]

  least just simply saying why doesn't the preso same things with the latest [TS]

  version of Windows Mobile to say about this you know i mean he's gonna go back [TS]

  and yelled at people and and and ask why that's a problem even if he doesn't [TS]

  understand why right and the taste thing like when we say that bad taste like we [TS]

  kind of mean is that on the same taste or the same taste as Apple because he [TS]

  does have a form of taste but his taste runs towards things that don't make for [TS]

  a successful consumer products so it's not like he has no taste he has a taste [TS]

  in a design is that it can are as embodied in I don't know what what can [TS]

  you look at to figure it out as embodied in the product the way he he managed [TS]

  Microsoft has invited to his wardrobe transportation choices like he has some [TS]

  taste is just different than the taste that we have [TS]

  and at this point he said you know so what your taste different just different [TS]

  but I think Apple at this point is vindicated enjoying it just like the [TS]

  same to say what was what was Sony's tastes like when they were the king of [TS]

  the consumer electronics cell what is apples taste like there is a through [TS]

  line between those companies and it is not like the taste of Microsoft's Steve [TS]

  Ballmer so it's the incorrect taste that have if you want to be in this type of [TS]

  business [TS]

  Sony when they're on top had a very distinctive taste i I liked you know it [TS]

  was usually black like black devices and when they weren't they would you know go [TS]

  almost radical directions like the the waterproof Walkman and were like bright [TS]

  yellow ya know that they're so I still like that if you look at how to be [TS]

  amazed it like that they'd fallen so low right but they still have some designers [TS]

  in a doing interesting things like you know look look at the design of the [TS]

  PlayStation 2 for instance it was very futuristic an impressive and PlayStation [TS]

  3 to look like George Foreman grill but like always everything we do is [TS]

  interesting and like in terms of design unfortunate the rest of the rest of the [TS]

  things that the company that is not probably doing that great and now [TS]

  they're like a movie studio and all sorts of other entitlements and things [TS]

  but design wise there is there are some good design is still at Sony and they do [TS]

  make things that sort of capture the imagination more than like compared the [TS]

  original Xbox which is also black plastic just like a ps2 but if you can't [TS]

  tell the difference from the original Xbox and ps2 in terms of design like [TS]

  there's your problem can't detect the difference both blasting the black [TS]

  plastic slats and them damn about the same ones obviously bigger than the [TS]

  other but during the size difference like this a huge difference was between [TS]

  those two things I would say the controllers to i mean and I know that [TS]

  controllers are it's almost like we're gonna get into how quickly your keyboard [TS]

  should be but I'm not a gamer but I just thought just as I guess snap judgment [TS]

  level that PlayStation controllers have always looked very appealing to me and [TS]

  Xbox once for example not so much unfortunately when it comes to [TS]

  controllers are things you're going to hold in your hand how it looks like [TS]

  that's that's been so many spelling there and and apples failing to make the [TS]

  reason you know the hockey puck mouse or even the current Magic Mouse too low you [TS]

  can if you have a a visual design aesthetic and you want things to look [TS]

  just so that is exactly the wrong instinct to indulge when you're making [TS]

  something that fits inside someone's hand and they supposed to look at while [TS]

  they're using right like i mean they saw me does make they did make their control [TS]

  is beautiful and symmetrical with like conical sections for the little things [TS]

  that you hope that's not what shake people's hands are in and so it looks [TS]

  like a nice piece of art but not great holder is Microsoft went the other [TS]

  direction said we're selling to thirty year old guys make the controller bigger [TS]

  make it a listen [TS]

  stranger and yet another thing but i i think the Xbox controller see more [TS]

  successful control isn't than the PlayStation kronenberg looking at the [TS]

  two of them one of them looks like a hamburger and looks like a sleek [TS]

  futuristic thing here's another bitter taste member of the beta back in [TS]

  September 2010 when Windows Phone 7 was released to manufacturing and they held [TS]

  a funeral parade in Microsoft campus for the BlackBerry and iPhone compare that [TS]

  compare that to Apple which had a funeral for its own operating system on [TS]

  state for their own product beyond propaganda they do the you know start [TS]

  your photocopiers and trashing windows or whatever but but that's i mean in all [TS]

  cases though he seems kind of unseemly like if if you are the underdogs ninety [TS]

  need that to motivate the troops and like when Apple was the underdog that's [TS]

  when it worked and I started to become the over dog that's when it became a [TS]

  little bit distasteful but at that point like Microsoft like this momentum of [TS]

  being the big dog and it's the kind of unseemly for them to be trashing the [TS]

  other competitors but like that just fits into the cold war mentality in the [TS]

  propaganda Sligo everything we do is $100 [TS]

  everything they do is terrible we are the best we're gonna win and that's not [TS]

  that's not helpful like that type of propaganda doesn't motivate the troops [TS]

  because they know it's not true just as much as you know or should know that [TS]

  it's not true like there's a there's a measured rational response that you let [TS]

  you know the people in your company know that you understand what is better about [TS]

  the other products and you're still behind you still you believe your [TS]

  company can best them but now you know what you have to do and that is not [TS]

  communicated by just blind rara cheerleading for everything your company [TS]

  does right I think it's kinda dispiriting if you're the troops if you [TS]

  can't believe everything that youre leader says right I mean I think [TS]

  everybody at Microsoft Windows Phone 7 no matter how well it did and no matter [TS]

  how good it was and it was certainly a lot better than everything [TS]

  microsoft done in mobile before but it wasn't gonna kill the iPhone I don't [TS]

  think there is anybody there maybe except for Ballmer they could have that [TS]

  meeting of the head Windows Phone 7 series Phone 7 you know you're before [TS]

  the iPhone right right then it really would've been like wow where the hell [TS]

  did this come from because it was so much better than what they had before [TS]

  like they were they were justifiably proud of but again they the overshoot [TS]

  they got it you know and the thing about bearing rim like I think that's the [TS]

  moment I was that one could call because I think everyone at that point could [TS]

  anyone with a brain could see that room was in serious trouble that was actually [TS]

  a good called on their part I think everybody in the computer industry could [TS]

  see it you know because I think that everybody could see and that was the [TS]

  whole basis of the big white room was screwed in 20 2008 was simply from the [TS]

  basis of look we call them smart phones but they're not phones their little tiny [TS]

  personal computers that happen to have cellphone networking and RIM has no [TS]

  experience making computers they make little messaging devices they're screwed [TS]

  because they can't make computers and they eventually realize that when they [TS]

  bought what you call it the axe yeah yeah the QNX which was you know got them [TS]

  in the game with the route you know by all measures you know say what you want [TS]

  about the [TS]

  BlackBerry 10 OS but you know the QNX wore underneath as you know super well [TS]

  regarded as you know it's the real deal but it was way too little too late and I [TS]

  think that's clearly not even Microsoft can see these things are a little [TS]

  computers now the game [TS]

  yeah I was put on Monday barring there if they were there [TS]

  funeral else it was BlackBerry and iPhone and iPhone nothing else to do [TS]

  they live together and the reason that you mention Nokia the same reason [TS]

  everything ok was invincible busy look at the sales number like well no guess I [TS]

  was like oh gillian phones every year so we're not even talk about them as I was [TS]

  a nobody could be on top forever well as business sense of you know not realizing [TS]

  that what they're selling are you know feature phones done well and I wouldn't [TS]

  be surprised I forget when Stephen Elop came ok took over as nokia CEO which is [TS]

  certainly when it became much more likely that they would license Windows [TS]

  as an operating system but I wouldn't be surprised if they already had Nokia you [TS]

  know on the list up we'd like them to make Windows Phone 7 they can you know [TS]

  that the big thing the big similarity between rim and Apple was that they were [TS]

  the two companies that built the whole kit you know that hardware and the OS [TS]

  you know the companies they couldn't afford them awkward anybody who was a [TS]

  potential OEM for Windows that's probably true but yet but yeah right [TS]

  like any company should know that you know some other company having huge head [TS]

  start on the software ecosystem is a big problem it should have a Microsoft is [TS]

  that was like such such a key factor in their success with the PC getting the [TS]

  apps getting all of them like by that point the App Store had moved along had [TS]

  no but nobody in Microsoft believe like people cheering the audience believed in [TS]

  their heart of hearts that Windows Phone 7 was going to sweep the iPhone off the [TS]

  table anytime soon [TS]

  best-case the boy you know three years from now we may you know be tied with [TS]

  them in terms of developer support number about its best case scenario [TS]

  right I think anybody at Microsoft even bomb in anybody who could have been that [TS]

  should have been the CEO of [TS]

  should have been able to realize immediately the day of the iPhone being [TS]

  unveiled on stage in January 2007 that wow we've been caught flat-footed we [TS]

  need to start today I mean right now [TS]

  immediate emergency meeting we've got a we've gotta think about how we're gonna [TS]

  catch up to this just by looking at what Apple showed on the first day with the [TS]

  iPhone but even if you didn't have the taste to recognize that the moment where [TS]

  everybody at Microsoft should have had that you know this is an emergency [TS]

  meeting would have been a year later when the App Store was announced and [TS]

  response was so incredibly strong from that such a diverse array of developers [TS]

  i I can forgive them for not believing you're not going to believe they have [TS]

  announcement and because it was so different after was so different that [TS]

  there was a good chance like if you didn't you didn't understand like they [TS]

  were showing that there's like the same kind of weird could go either way right [TS]

  and I would say like a year later that's way too late I would say the time the [TS]

  time when you when you should have that meeting if you didn't have an amoeba [TS]

  concealable see what's going to happen right time to have a meeting is once you [TS]

  are a bad as any of the c-level executives american chopper anybody is [TS]

  able to go to the store buy and iPhone bring home and play with it then you [TS]

  better have been meaning to you like we've got a problem here but you play [TS]

  with that phone and you realize I don't want to go back to the phones like the [TS]

  iPhone was a compelling product once you had in your hands and that's when you [TS]

  need to have that meeting because the proof is in the product right $600 or no [TS]

  if you play around that thing you know on day one the original iPhone and don't [TS]

  realize damn I cannot go back to my windows mobile phone after this we need [TS]

  to have a meeting that's the problem that's a good point and it was it was it [TS]

  was it was a product that was as good as the demos claimed it was and you can't [TS]

  be sure that like they put up on the screen like Microsoft right you can't [TS]

  you can't tell if we didn't although he seemed amazing we trust we had faith in [TS]

  Apple until you get that thing you can do not sure because it was so weird and [TS]

  different [TS]

  i but the proof is in the product and had to know but I'm they all had iPhones [TS]

  maybe maybe the fact that Microsoft has a history of of sort of sham demos it [TS]

  may be that actually set them back in six months as they just you know much [TS]

  like RIM's famous response where they actually had a meeting you know the week [TS]

  after the iPhone came out and came away with the conclusion that Apple had faked [TS]

  the whole thing because it was impossible you know maybe Microsoft [TS]

  reaction like it but it's the type you know go khobar analogy again so they [TS]

  watch the demo right and go down to their phone team they were just as [TS]

  iPhone demo we're not sure that that's going to fly over its BS or we don't [TS]

  know but you know what do you think of it head of Windows Mobile and Windows [TS]

  Moses our phones are strong we don't have to worry [TS]

  strong Windows Mobile that's what they have to do as a company man down the [TS]

  chain of command you never tell your superior we're screwed in the thing [TS]

  we're working on these past few years does not hold a candle to what they have [TS]

  and we need to regroup write your initial reaction is always don't worry [TS]

  everything's fine cuz that's like that's how you say you got your job to tell you [TS]

  keep your job you're always just say no everything's great we're great our [TS]

  phones are the best because that's the company line and just keep your peanuts [TS]

  themselves while having a sinking feeling in the pit of the stomach that [TS]

  that's bad I think you had a good point to about the developers and one thing [TS]

  that I think should have been terrifying the Microsoft and they have any company [TS]

  understands the value of having third-party developers support for your [TS]

  platform it's them the scariest thing was that Apple almost literally didn't [TS]

  do any work to get that support they actually work against it and we're [TS]

  telling developers at the beginning we're not even gonna let you write apps [TS]

  for this and third-party developers alike please let us write apps and they [TS]

  said no [TS]

  little web no and then they were like please let us write apps and then like [TS]

  within a month of the thing coming out you know Craig Hockenberry and and Lucas [TS]

  Newman figured out how to write apps around Apple's back with no actual [TS]

  support no STK you know Lucas Newman had hit the lights out game and I was like [TS]

  what when the iPhone was announced like that was the an amazing to me that you [TS]

  know for all the source I doesn't doesn't see these things are these Steve [TS]

  Jobs initially like that I think was macro right when it was announced in [TS]

  January so at Macworld you cable sasser did a podcast like in like the Macworld [TS]

  fishbowl or whatever you were talking about of course talking about the iPhone [TS]

  and I wasn't there but I did the one video ever was a nice day I did a little [TS]

  video and my video was not of how awesome the iPhone is there anything I [TS]

  video was about the fact that every single person at Macworld in our circle [TS]

  of people who like Mac Developer sold that phone said the same thing that I [TS]

  quoted from cable from your podcast like can we write apps for this phone because [TS]

  that would be awesome I'm paraphrasing but I think I got it exactly right and [TS]

  that's that was the story macworld was like we see this phone this phone is [TS]

  amazing every month like immediately not like a month later a year later thinking [TS]

  about that like as soon as a tech nerd saw that phone like I want I want to my [TS]

  apt to be on that phone I want to write out that was the day of the announcement [TS]

  he was saying that and that will you know and that's the video average like [TS]

  the song dance with me because everyone was like yes you me phone we together [TS]

  make beautiful apps right-wing know how do I guess you don't know anything about [TS]

  the things we don't know what makes a good eye for now but we know we want to [TS]

  be there we want to write out that there's a template to Apple's Keynote [TS]

  presentations and you can almost see well not like a literal keynote template [TS]

  but there probably is for that too but a forum that they typically follow and and [TS]

  one of them often is for a new thing [TS]

  they'll they'll say here's ten things we wanted to know about it a go through the [TS]

  10th but you can also see then how that maybe they started with 40 things and [TS]

  they say here's the forty things we might want to talk about what are the 10 [TS]

  that'll be the best to talk about in the thing and I'm sure that you know it's a [TS]

  weeks-long [TS]

  do these tend to do these you do this they pick the ten they rehearse the 10th [TS]

  Ave am ready to go and then there's often a slide where they'll show like [TS]

  the other thirty or forty things at once lived with all these different other [TS]

  features in various sizes of of myriad and they'll say look and there's all [TS]

  this stuff too and at the iPhone debut in Macworld that slide had up in like [TS]

  the upper right corner one of the words was Coco like they never did Steve Jobs [TS]

  never said Coco it was just a word on a slide with like thirty other features of [TS]

  the iPhone but he did say that he said it runs OS 1010 was a riot that brief [TS]

  naming things right he said it runs OS 10 and up on that slide it said Coco and [TS]

  like you said in our crowd everybody was already over the fact that it was so [TS]

  awesome looking but it was that they'd already start you know they've realized [TS]

  that this thing you know if it was if that was true that you could build ups [TS]

  because that's how they made their abs you know that it was you know all these [TS]

  like jurassic park this is a unique system I know this I know Coco I can [TS]

  write an app for that phone that that just by him saying it runs OS 10 and [TS]

  that word Coco that everybody in our crowd had already figured out that iOS [TS]

  was what iOS is that it was the mythical stripped down version of OS 10 with the [TS]

  next up frameworks for application development and everyone wanted to write [TS]

  and act like we all saw the abbey and it's kind of like Apple's own ass [TS]

  backwards into success like the same thing with jobs you know refusing to [TS]

  make iTunes for Windows for so long I had to be argued down by the [TS]

  the rest of the you know slightly less stubborn executive team at Apple like [TS]

  fine when they get for Windows let these stupid iPod become a runaway success [TS]

  that's what you want fine go ahead don't have it I was like well I thought I [TS]

  would have second sponsor break I won't tell you about this another repeat [TS]

  sponsor just by coincidence but I know that they have also sponsored the ATP [TS]

  they know their audience this is transporter by by our friends at [TS]

  connected data I remember transporter transporter is your own private [TS]

  distributed storage service again this analogy comes from them I'm not making [TS]

  it up it's like your own private Dropbox you buy a piece of hardware from you [TS]

  install the hardware right there in your home or office where everyone it you can [TS]

  buy more than one of them you can distribute them you sign up for your [TS]

  transporter account and you get a little shared Dropbox style storage system I [TS]

  don't know how you describe it just works you install the software you [TS]

  install the hardware and then all the sudden whatever you put in your [TS]

  transporter is on all of your transporters why would she uses instead [TS]

  of Dropbox it's because you control in on the hardware this is not online [TS]

  stores there are clouds doors there is no mysterious transporter place where [TS]

  they have your data your data only exists on these hardware devices that [TS]

  you won't which is important for untold many reasons some people have to based [TS]

  on client regulations or their privacy record things HIPAA things for for [TS]

  people who work in medicine I don't know if any of you have heard about this [TS]

  there's an organization in the you s called the NSA that is apparently [TS]

  listening to John and I record the show right now all sorts of reasons why you [TS]

  might want to control privately owned [TS]

  well guess what they've got version 2.0 software coming out of beta its they've [TS]

  got early access to it [TS]

  whole bunch of amazing new features they have new videos that show you how to set [TS]

  up a transporter how easy it is to use with your Mac how easy it is to share [TS]

  files and folders with friends and colleagues and you can watch those [TS]

  videos at WWW dot filed transporter dot com how to howto howw dash deal I'll bet [TS]

  if you just want to their home page private filers videos to have a special [TS]

  offer for listeners of the talk show to celebrate the early access release of [TS]

  their 2.0 software connected data is offering listeners of the show [TS]

  50 bucks off their purchase of a transporter this applies to all three [TS]

  configurations of their hard work you can buy the zero terabyte that's for the [TS]

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  no matter which one you choose you could save 50 bucks I mean that's a serious [TS]

  discount that is like I mean that's no joke I have to do to save that money is [TS]

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  wait till the 15th and try to guess which timezone midnight the explorations [TS]

  in just go now to check it out if you like it buy it used the code you'll save [TS]

  50 bucks but doable for September 15th at filed transporter [TS]

  transporter [TS]

  I do i just i just promoted it to my little network attached storage area in [TS]

  the basement of all ups the transporter up to it that's what I like about [TS]

  network attached storage as you can put it somewhere like completely out of [TS]

  sight and it just seems like magic number where you are in the world like [TS]

  you have access to the storage and I know it sitting in my basement I know [TS]

  it's you know I know where it is but it seems like magic really great guys group [TS]

  company we're just talking about what was the last thing Microsoft PowerPoint [TS]

  Microsoft yeah we're a little bit of dancing on their grave but it's kind of [TS]

  a bit unseemly any other names and hear their names on it we want to talk about [TS]

  what about Steven Sinofsky what about bringing him back I don't know if he [TS]

  knew I don't know if he knows how to make markets accessible I think he's a [TS]

  smart guy and I think he has some good ideas but I mean he's not a terrible I [TS]

  don't think if they brought him back I wouldn't say like it would require there [TS]

  to be like unbeknownst to us you know that before he was pushed out by bomber [TS]

  that you know the board said well aware that you know whatever the disagreement [TS]

  was with polymer that the board agrees that Sinofsky should have won that [TS]

  anti-social though he seems like hard to get on with this in the same vein as [TS]

  forestall yeah but that might work better if he's the CEO is better if he [TS]

  has good ideas [TS]

  right well I mean he did like I don't know I can't I can't get a read on him [TS]

  he certainly has a lot of the aspects that you want and that he's kinda like [TS]

  he's got that quality of like he's going to boldly do things I just don't have [TS]

  quite enough be that he is going to do the right things I also don't have quite [TS]

  enough faith to believe that he is going to bend in the way that you would want [TS]

  him to bend like Steve Jobs pig-headed stubborn and obnoxious but the best [TS]

  thing like that says that you know he defined that practically in the CEO [TS]

  space and yet he was able to be argued down into doing in iTunes on Windows [TS]

  being pissy about it and everything but the fact that he was able to allow that [TS]

  to happen [TS]

  speaks volumes like because you know if if the stereotype of steve Jobs was [TS]

  actually true there's no way that happen that would have been a terrible mistake [TS]

  so I don't know if Sandusky is the type of guy who is gonna be bold to have [TS]

  great ideas like and power through but no when like all the other smart people [TS]

  you surround yourself are you arguing against you that sometimes you should [TS]

  give in maine uski I don't know him well enough you know I'm just trying I was [TS]

  trying to pick somebody from within Microsoft and even though Sinofsky is no [TS]

  longer within Microsoft I think if they named him as CEO be seen sort of as an [TS]

  internal you know it would be a repudiate a big repudiation of bomber [TS]

  about the the all the guys that with the carrier project that they can career and [TS]

  then that teams that have spread to the four winds who is that there was J [TS]

  Allard JJJ is just the letter j I went to school with him so I can imagine [TS]

  somebody went to school with Microsoft's I'm coming off list Robbie Bach yeah [TS]

  that's what I was thinking of like so if if the vision is Microsoft is like going [TS]

  to be remade as a consumer electronic services company that makes devices and [TS]

  hardware and software that's division which Ballmer articulated the board [TS]

  agrees that Microsoft you going to sort of be kind of like a plan that way [TS]

  pulling somebody from the side of Microsoft there was always on the [TS]

  consumer electronics that like the Xbox guys around the block was involved Xbox [TS]

  I believe in career in about that stuff those if this is what you are Microsoft [TS]

  to be in the future [TS]

  those guys might be some place to look because that was always their passion [TS]

  was always to pull Microsoft in that direction NJ lard and those guys you [TS]

  know brought the plan to Bill Gates said why doesn't my game console and were [TS]

  able to make that happen within Microsoft shows that they have some [TS]

  ability to navigate the political dangers of the company and make things [TS]

  happen and they were doing the career thing and you know got Canada knows it [TS]

  was any good or not but like their instincts are in that direction so if [TS]

  you want to do that and pulled it off without having it called you know [TS]

  windows game platform certified 2000 and without a winning kind of a mean I guess [TS]

  Xbox has always almost certain it has always run with the windows and T [TS]

  colonel and that you know programming games for the Xbox was always been a [TS]

  part of the appeal is supposedly that it was a lot like writing Windows PC games [TS]

  Xbox direct access their 3d right but that it's you know it from a consumer [TS]

  standpoint of branding standpoint and a user interface standpoint that no legacy [TS]

  whatsoever it was just this is what a game platform should look like [TS]

  crapping on the Xbox like that product line in terms like it you know if you [TS]

  look at over its entire life I believe it is your money losing money I would [TS]

  write downs for their hardware problems with the red ring of death and like the [TS]

  beginning the Xbox really expensive to make whatever but I always come back to [TS]

  it as that that should be held up as a success [TS]

  financially maybe not but like they entered a very difficult market with you [TS]

  know fierce competitors an established market and we're able to make a name for [TS]

  himself that now they are always a serious contender to be number one any [TS]

  console generation and the value of that may be diminishing but it shows that [TS]

  Microsoft like it's it's it's like Microsoft did something right they you [TS]

  know kind of sort of with fumbles or whatever but there are so many people [TS]

  who would never even think of entering the market is like a bunch of sharks in [TS]

  their right and Microsoft did it and succeeded in taking us to their credit [TS]

  yeah and I think that you know it's like they could have one of the ways that [TS]

  that come the day that the iPhone shipped in 2007 and had the do what they [TS]

  should have had the hell we gonna do [TS]

  moment that that team could have proposed something called like expand [TS]

  and pasted on the Xbox branding and say look why don't we make something [TS]

  you know gaming type thing and we can also you know they couldn't depart like [TS]

  the portable gaming space has been a real thing for a long time Sony reported [TS]

  to the Game Boy right so the next logical step for Microsoft you know say [TS]

  we are now established player in the in the console space why don't we also make [TS]

  a handheld and that like to limit of Microsoft's corporate tolerance for [TS]

  strategy tax type thing like woe is gonna be anything portable your hands [TS]

  it's gonna play xbox games it's going to be named whatever the group is working [TS]

  on Microsoft's current tablet edition right and that one gets killed by this [TS]

  tragedy acts like I we let you do this Xbox thing without having the Windows [TS]

  logo pop up and stuff like that but there's no way in hell you're making [TS]

  like the Microsoft Game Boy because the phone group doesn't like it and then [TS]

  it's all scratchy tax thing and you know that's why the Xbox moment was like kind [TS]

  of amazing that they were able to get that product but like the therapist that [TS]

  was like to limit is losing money you're in no position to dictate the portable [TS]

  everyone knows intend to you know market sewn up anyway so forget it and so they [TS]

  never did make the Microsoft Game Boy and yeah and it's it speaks to the [TS]

  credibility of the Xbox though in like you said like that it should be seen as [TS]

  a long-term success that it would such a thing would have had instant credibility [TS]

  at this point like if if the Xbox was spun off as a separate company just [TS]

  completely cleanly separated people would still say come you know the next [TS]

  generation of game consoles and you know eight years or something if there is a [TS]

  next generation of game consoles they would be talking about them is like you [TS]

  know people don't watch company worth listening to [TS]

  yeah I'll go to go to the big announcement that they've scheduled for [TS]

  now it's not totally like was there are so few sites like the personal computer [TS]

  operating you know how many how many people have you had a company announced [TS]

  said you know I'm gonna get into personal computer operating system you [TS]

  gonna do what that's crazy and it seems like the same thing with the game so [TS]

  long to make a game console it's a platform who wants to make a platform [TS]

  like rim to its credit made another platform which was unheard of [TS]

  practically mean they did not in the PC space but they said we're going to make [TS]

  a new platform [TS]

  and that that is so unprecedented so rare to happen and so difficult to do [TS]

  that was down the tubes but they did it you know you talk about the bb10 yeah I [TS]

  know their their messaging service like they it was a platform and it's so hard [TS]

  to make those and to make them succeed even if even if only fleetingly yeah one [TS]

  last any other names wanna toss out as a possible CEO executives my gut feeling [TS]

  is it's gonna be somebody like someone from inside out Microsoft like you just [TS]

  go down the corporate ladder microscopic four of the eight hundred vice president [TS]

  and say the thing is there could be untapped talent inside Microsoft I don't [TS]

  want to put that video I could I don't know maybe the best case scenario for [TS]

  the for them to its like you need the right guy like you know that's the [TS]

  that's the key decision you don't talk about the optics before like a house is [TS]

  gonna look in the present who is one of the stock price for all that is going to [TS]

  have to deal with whatever happens that you've just got to find the right person [TS]

  at the right person is a Microsoft outside Microsoft fine whatever you do [TS]

  get the right person and don't worry about what's going to happen the day you [TS]

  announce it because that is who cares somebody who you know and and Microsoft [TS]

  has to be Microsoft you know they can't be the never gonna win if they try to be [TS]

  apple or anybody else or Google I would say this I would say in mobile I would [TS]

  say maybe just maybe the last point about Ballmer Microsoft is that maybe [TS]

  the iPhone is almost not irrelevant but is not the thing people should look at [TS]

  as the main failing of Microsoft in mobile I would say the two companies [TS]

  that show what a failure [TS]

  microsoft has been in mobile are rim and Android separate from google but that [TS]

  RIM's long-term success I mean the whole bread-and-butter [TS]

  of ram through their heyday was in corporate market I mean it was a long [TS]

  time before they became a consumer brand that RIM's days as a consumer success we [TS]

  were pretty fleeting but they spent a long time as a big success and I T that [TS]

  market should have been Microsoft us they'd the fact that they let him become [TS]

  the defacto corporate mobile OS should have been seen as a failure very early [TS]

  and I think that if they had if they had somehow if if Windows Mobile crummy as [TS]

  it was taste was had been the success that RIM was all along I they'd be in I [TS]

  don't think I think Microsoft would add something the parlay off a lot sooner [TS]

  and maybe in much better position today even in the consumer market that was [TS]

  classic alone disruption because Microsoft had you know had a smartphone [TS]

  platform but Microsoft like when we feel the smartphone platform it's going to be [TS]

  you know like windows on the phone is gonna be Windows CE Windows consumer [TS]

  edition it's going you know the whole nine yards right where his Blackberry [TS]

  unconstrained by that kind of attitude of like well it has to be for Windows [TS]

  they gave you basically a picture that you could type on exactly that was [TS]

  ramped up from Pepe Dougan type on making windows on a phone if you see [TS]

  nothing in the fridge and smartphones killing one megabyte around you can run [TS]

  the stylist right and if we don't care about the pager with a keyboard and [TS]

  destruction that page with a keyboard or smarter and bigger and better and you [TS]

  know the servers were attached to it and like it when it was just paid with the [TS]

  keyboard the utility of being able to just tap out emails on your little page [TS]

  with the keyboard thing with unbelievable and it was easy to use [TS]

  you know you could function it was designed to use you could use it for [TS]

  immediately and that that's what made blackberry and Microsoft was too tied up [TS]

  in thinking we have to ship you an entire PC in your hand which they were [TS]

  made to do yet as bbm is always sort of like a half way between email textin and [TS]

  it was exactly you know the exact thing that the technology of the times was [TS]

  optimal for the technology of the times [TS]

  targeted the people who needed to be able to basically [TS]

  from anywhere in the world and had the money to pay for you know paid paid [TS]

  relatively large monthly fees and then I say Android because clearly you know it [TS]

  it's Android not the iPhone that is now where Microsoft thought it was going to [TS]

  be you know and who asked that OM's make device you know like what Windows was i [TS]

  mean a lot of people pointed this out that in broad terms you know maybe the [TS]

  percent you know certainly the percentages of market share are [TS]

  different but in broad terms it's almost uncanny how much Android is to mobile [TS]

  what Windows was to PCs in iOS and you know the iPhone are two mobile what the [TS]

  Mac and Mac OS word PCs but like you can can you blame myself for not doing and [TS]

  read it though because Microsoft must be looking at entering saying they're [TS]

  they're doing what we do except for the part where you collect the money they [TS]

  gave it away that everybody right and like and that works with Google's [TS]

  business because their business was get people on the internet get them to [TS]

  Google searches collect personal information is there an advertising [TS]

  company to Microsoft in have their business model and so it's like how [TS]

  could you compete with Android Android Android you had to get their first which [TS]

  Microsoft was so they could on that but once and rented out the door it's like [TS]

  so that we could be subsidized this with our like exchange licenses do we become [TS]

  an advertising company because it was so hard for them to go to the OEM and say [TS]

  you should make Windows Phones for a while they could use their licensing [TS]

  terms for the Windows operating system for PCs as leverage but that starts to [TS]

  fade in power and it's a tough competitor because they had skills and [TS]

  take it away for free [TS]

  may be the only chance they had and it is true and and and it's part of what [TS]

  makes Google search in [TS]

  difficult competitor in any marketing gets into because they you know give [TS]

  everything away and subsidized through advertising that they're very very good [TS]

  at monetizing you know and you know very small pennies you know pennies pennies [TS]

  per view [TS]

  multiplied by a very large number ends up being you know billions of dollars [TS]

  but I think Microsoft opportunity was to have Windows Mobile be way better than [TS]

  what Android was sooner because the first few years of Android after it [TS]

  shipped it was really bad i mean it got its gotten a lot better [TS]

  very quickly but like you know 2009 2010 Android was really really crummy system [TS]

  and maybe there was an opportunity there where to look you you know your [TS]

  competitors maybe make might be paying zero dollars to school for Android but [TS]

  you can pay us $10 for a license for Windows Mobile and your phone is gonna [TS]

  look a lot better in the cell phones and they did that for a while they had a lot [TS]

  of people making Windows Mobile phones and sometimes they're also making [TS]

  Android phones are making Windows Mobile phones instead of and they go to like [TS]

  the big name people they're like oh you should make a Windows Mobile phone [TS]

  because your your brand name and let those other random you know Asian [TS]

  manufacturers making it was like the product offering it was maybe better [TS]

  ahead of a Microsoft name and everything but it wasn't better better enough right [TS]

  and I think it was you know and for example I mean to me this is the biggest [TS]

  tell is that it's HTC is the perfect example 'cause at one point HTC was by [TS]

  far the world's biggest windows phone maker forget what percentage of Windows [TS]

  Phones for HTC but I think it was like a majority share like at least 50% of all [TS]

  Windows phones were HTC may be a lot higher and you know clearly now it's I [TS]

  don't think I guess HTC may be tried making one Windows 8 Phone or something [TS]

  like that but almost everything HTC cells Android HTC is a cautionary tale [TS]

  like this is what happens when you listen to the siren song of Microsoft [TS]

  and try to get on board with their windows thing it distracts you and by [TS]

  the time like now they're kind of like recovering and having the HTC One is an [TS]

  amazing phone that should the few people who like should be doing better than it [TS]

  is for you spent all that time off with Microsoft and while you were doing that [TS]

  you know Samsung Cain became the name and face of good Android phones and [TS]

  despite the fact that you now have a great phone the HTC One you know Samsung [TS]

  people associate the name Galaxy Tab product like windows loans we would do [TS]

  you know maybe we could be simpson yeah maybe I'll let me deal a sponsor reagan [TS]

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  igloo is an internet actually like don't just take my word for it [TS]

  don't just take our word for it is a case study actual customer Children's [TS]

  Hospital Foundation in Washington Dec [TS]

  now this is an outfit they were using shared drives USB drives walking around [TS]

  almost like the old sneaker net email and complicated SharePoint intranet to [TS]

  manage everything in their organization where they set a goal to double their [TS]

  fundraising and they needed a better way for the whole organization to [TS]

  collaborate so they tried out a whole bunch of different software they chose a [TS]

  glue and after they set up after the whole staff saw how easy it was using a [TS]

  glue to collaborate they actually clap they have a good company wide meeting [TS]

  where they said here's what we're going to use here's what it looks like here's [TS]

  how it works and the staff broke out in applause Children's Hospital Foundation [TS]

  has been using it for a year now still love it [TS]

  deal with it and here's a new software update just came out the other day the [TS]

  end of August they call it scone that's the name of the new update every [TS]

  customer was instantly upgraded as soon as it came out because it's a web app [TS]

  new stuff that they have a new html5 document previews video previews [TS]

  improved analytics and and a whole bunch more when they come up with a software [TS]

  update everybody's existing igloo internet already automatically gets [TS]

  upgraded great service and is amazing it's free to use with up to 10 people so [TS]

  if you're a small team it's free for your team news if you're a big team you [TS]

  can try it out of a group of you tried out with up to 10 of you just to see if [TS]

  you like it and when you're a group grows when you need to add people it's [TS]

  only $12 a person a month [TS]

  go to a glue software dot com slash the talk show to start building your igloo [TS]

  igloo software dot com slash the talk show and start building your if I don't [TS]

  forget to go to their home page enable bunch of sandwich videos made by the [TS]

  aforementioned a timely support and they're hilarious cycle sitcom [TS]

  team did everything themselves camera makes you think that maybe semi-retired [TS]

  at this point there is a body doubles he's actually officiating the [TS]

  aforementioned [TS]

  doing all these things at once he makes video starring videos he officiates [TS]

  wedding to a taxi to the airport is your driver on the airplane quite alright [TS]

  video games so I III wrote a big piece today based on that was funny I didn't [TS]

  plan on it somebody's on Twitter said the reason that I stirred up so much by [TS]

  saying that [TS]

  ten Doeschate make I get to line linked list entry it said they should have [TS]

  given him a guileless games when they announced the new to des last week and I [TS]

  got so I got great feedback from it I don't mean it in terms of dummies [TS]

  shouldn't send me feedback it was great I mean I can't believe how much [TS]

  interesting stuff came out of it to send peace they wrote but I had a lot more to [TS]

  say about it today repeated here all assume everybody is listened is as read [TS]

  it but but the gist of it is I stand by I think I think Nintendo is screwed at [TS]

  least inspector may be especially in here and I think that they should [TS]

  seriously consider me games even if that [TS]

  seriously consider me games even if that [TS]

  means that the company is going to shrink in in uncomfortable ways think [TS]

  you probably got a lot of crap about it there's the obvious reason is that like [TS]

  normally I mean you said yourself you're not a gamer and did you read about game [TS]

  technology occasionally but most your be just like you know personal computers [TS]

  mobile phone stuff like that so the people who are you know inside that [TS]

  circle gonna say this guy doesn't have doesn't know the history doesn't have [TS]

  the depth of background personal experience to comment [TS]

  knowingly on this topic see a crap from those described exactly and the flip [TS]

  side of that is that when you are inside that circle it's very easy to you know [TS]

  have preconceived notions about one in 10 that was and how they have to behave [TS]

  and sometimes it's the people who are outside that is assuming that you know [TS]

  that there are no smart people they can give you a view of the you're not [TS]

  willing to accept because it goes against you know central tenets of your [TS]

  belief system from being a gamer for the past 20 years or whatever so it's always [TS]

  important than 20 outside guy says something crazy maybe he's wrong but it [TS]

  doesn't have the background know about it but the other hand maybe you can't [TS]

  conceive of that possibility because because it just it runs counter to [TS]

  everything you've felt about Nintendo for the past you know thirty years of [TS]

  your life or whatever I agree with you there and I you know and I'll just say [TS]

  this if I end up being proven wrong and have to eat my hat on this 1 I'll be [TS]

  happy like let's say ten years from now [TS]

  Nintendo still has never made a game for anything but their own systems and they [TS]

  have a successful handheld platform minutes till a successful plugging their [TS]

  TV platform the great news I would be doubt be delighted and I'm sure that [TS]

  would be good news for the gaming industry and for people who like to play [TS]

  games interest fans of longtime fans of Nintendo's franchises great I'm I will [TS]

  be happy to be proven wrong I just don't think so and to me you know the [TS]

  comparison and its uncomfortable but I do think that there in a similar [TS]

  situation to her room was 56 years ago [TS]

  insofar as that they're unable to compete as computer makers with [TS]

  you know I S and and to a lesser degree you know Android kernel there's a kernel [TS]

  of something in there that you're on the right track about but in that duality [TS]

  and again I'm being very cognizant to think you know try to think outside the [TS]

  box not accept you know the the accepted narrative of the game industry because I [TS]

  consider myself and someone who is deeply entrenched in that world but I i [TS]

  think you are missing a lot of things about Nintendo and that's why you're [TS]

  getting a lot of crap because because you're you're like you're off your beard [TS]

  off in the wrong direction that the kernel the kernel of truth that you have [TS]

  here is what you're getting out there like that you see you see competitors [TS]

  taking the attention and time and money that used to be nintendo's and you're [TS]

  thinking intended doesn't have what it takes to match up with those competitors [TS]

  right like that you see like that people applying I was games people doing this [TS]

  what can intend oh you know can attend to compete with that on that on those [TS]

  terms and it's like well no they can't have a blackberry curve that could make [TS]

  iPhone caliber hardware and software because that's what was going to take to [TS]

  stay on the phone businesses like alright here's the iPhone Blackberry and [TS]

  they just bring up these phones that were not not iPhone caliber the hardware [TS]

  or the software I can sticking with the hardware keyboard is like no blackberry [TS]

  that's not the bar the minimum entry prices like Windows Phone right Windows [TS]

  Phone seven and eight like that is a valid entry in the field and read it [TS]

  here but you are putting out is not you're not competing and it's like well [TS]

  you know blackberry you know RIM BlackBerry the company couldn't do that [TS]

  they you know they didn't they made it in have time to people they were too [TS]

  late whenever they just just couldn't get it together and you know that and so [TS]

  that's what you're saying about about intend to but you suggested remedies are [TS]

  not good not good at all because you know when you get right as the Nintendo [TS]

  has problems right thing we all agree that Nintendo is in a terrible spot but [TS]

  they're not doing well like they're not certainly coming down off the high of [TS]

  the week [TS]

  as well as well that so I think those are those into two parts that underneath [TS]

  it all that you kind of getting right you can recognize drinking a technology [TS]

  with the rest of the details I think you're off well and when they didn't [TS]

  even get into in this is where I maybe it's even maybe I should have cuz I [TS]

  think maybe it's even harder problem is I think going forward to remain [TS]

  competitive both handheld and on console I feel like the ever growing complexity [TS]

  of things there that the competitors there against are such that they need a [TS]

  better operating system and like developer system and that you know that [TS]

  there you know I think by all reports that they they really have like a [TS]

  criminal ones like they can't they still don't think that they can do like [TS]

  patches two games once they've been release is really get into trouble I am [TS]

  I wrong [TS]

  downloadable content that here's what I think contenders problems I feel like I [TS]

  said there is there is there is a core issue here right now here's here's how I [TS]

  would define tennis problems this the first question yet asked about his [TS]

  problems is there a future for game only or sort of game mostly hardware devices [TS]

  that something something that you buy that mostly plays games maybe to stream [TS]

  video of things whatever is there a market for you know currently or in the [TS]

  future so what's your answer my answer is yes but it's shrinking so fast that [TS]

  it doesn't remain that market doesn't remain big enough to sustain Nintendo so [TS]

  the I think the question this is like I think it's still an open question and I [TS]

  think the upcoming TV console generation Xbox and PlayStation 4 will give us a [TS]

  really important data point if they sell and radically lower numbers than than [TS]

  expected like than the previous generation of consoles did them know [TS]

  that the market for you know sort of game machines things that pretty much [TS]

  mostly do games despite the fact that both the Xbox and PlayStation 4 also you [TS]

  know to Netflix and all these other things [TS]

  you know if they don't sell in high numbers then we'll know that what you [TS]

  just said it's like that now is that time that is shrinking and that it's [TS]

  only a matter of time before it goes away if on the other hand they sell in [TS]

  the expected numbers and they sell huge numbers on the alright well apparently [TS]

  there is still a market for gaming devices we don't know how long the [TS]

  market's going around but nobody knows who I am but like it hasn't gone away [TS]

  let me to revise and say for one that you plug into your TV in your home [TS]

  entertainment system [TS]

  non portables non mobile and let me say I don't know and I'll let me plead [TS]

  ignorance and say that I'm so far out of it that I really don't know but maybe [TS]

  because I can imagine that as you know as computing power grows you can do more [TS]

  and more amazing stuff and that one that's primarily centered on games is [TS]

  bull remain unbeatable and that people have historically consumers have [TS]

  historically been willing to plug numerous things into their TV there's a [TS]

  limit and people get annoyed when you reach a certain limit but people love [TS]

  you know for decades now have had like a cable box and a DVD player and the game [TS]

  machine you know and/or you know some kind of a streaming box like an Apple TV [TS]

  iraqi or something like that so there's a history of that and TVs are made for [TS]

  it with multiple HDMI ports and it's not that painful to have one more box and so [TS]

  I say maybe if not probably plugged into the TV but for Mobile or handheld [TS]

  devices I think the answer is No [TS]

  well I think the question is like I don't think you can separate those too [TS]

  busy you saying that there is a market that your TV and there isn't fair and [TS]

  help if what you say about hand-held this true there's no reason that that [TS]

  same technology couldn't come and displace the television attached to you [TS]

  don't feel like we're already at the point where the high-end iPad has like [TS]

  you know previous generation game console caliber power close to it anyway [TS]

  right because the iPad as small as it is physically as more pixels than your TV [TS]

  you know but even just the you know the GPU itself as if you had a run 1080p [TS]

  like if if what you say is true that the the market for handheld gaming hardware [TS]

  doesn't exist [TS]

  then I think the power we already have in our phones like it's only a short [TS]

  distance to say that why can't something similarly small portable also be your [TS]

  television gaming device or in addition to your television game device like I [TS]

  don't know because separate them because it's like the only difference between [TS]

  hand-held and attach your TV is one of like time it's like the technology that [TS]

  used to be required [TS]

  big-box hatcher television with the fan now can fit in your phone and that just [TS]

  that would continue apace right that's why I think the key question is is there [TS]

  a market for any kind of game only a game mostly demise and I think for now [TS]

  for this generation I predicted the Xmas wanna ps4 will sell any reasonable [TS]

  numbers at the time of the game only again Wilson device is not over and the [TS]

  reason I think this is a very extremely relevant question at endo is because I [TS]

  don't think Nintendo has what it takes to feel the device that is not a game [TS]

  only a game mostly device they are can't make it personal computing platform they [TS]

  can't make it a platform they're not going to be with Android they're not [TS]

  going to compete with with iOS or even Windows Mobile I don't think the company [TS]

  has it in them to sell a device that's a general-purpose office again said who [TS]

  makes a software platform how often does that even happened that you make a [TS]

  successful platform that is not when intend to resign to do they can't [TS]

  compete in that market if that's where the market is going that is more or less [TS]

  the end of the line for Nintendo as we know it as a company and they could go [TS]

  on to become just a software company do all the things you talked about it [TS]

  whatever but that is the line I would draw and I don't think that right now is [TS]

  that line I don't think that you can say that [TS]

  know that time is over there is no more market for gaming devices and tend to [TS]

  your only choice is to become a different kind of company and that's [TS]

  that's where I part ways with your suggested solution of them trying out I [TS]

  was game I see I see it mostly I don't see that you might be right about the [TS]

  fact that the if anything is going to end the day the demand for console is [TS]

  canceled the right word for the ones you plug in ya during his game game only [TS]

  artwork that you play by play games and stream video it is not [TS]

  apps the problem I see for them is more specific I see it more clearly and it is [TS]

  a lot of ways and it was hard for me to write the article because I didn't want [TS]

  to say I have a gut feeling I I tried to justify it is logically as I could and I [TS]

  stand behind it but to me I see it and I certainly feel it more viscerally with [TS]

  the the handhelds with the 3ds and purses iPhones and Android phones and [TS]

  number one I don't think they could even make an iPod Touch caliber device and if [TS]

  they did I don't think that they could make it a cheap enough price and they're [TS]

  competing and this is the part where they're almost screwed it's not even [TS]

  fair which is that they're competing against the iPhone and galaxies and [TS]

  other high-end Android phones which are subsidized in so many markets around the [TS]

  world and you know complaining about how subsidized phone you still end up paying [TS]

  as much or more over the longer the fact is most people think and I found a brand [TS]

  new iPhone 5 costs $199 and you know it doesn't actually but how can they [TS]

  compete with that when it's in fact you know as $700 gadget yes I think you're [TS]

  off on this comparison as well because I mean it gets back to the room thing we [TS]

  are saying they like rim was the you know sticking with the hardware keyboard [TS]

  and making the hardware and they just couldn't compete which was true in the [TS]

  smartphone face space but that the key difference between you know what you're [TS]

  describing and what happens when everything is that right now I just [TS]

  can't make an iPhone caliber piece of hardware when rimless you know circling [TS]

  the drain the devices they were putting out gave inferior experiences if you [TS]

  bought an iPhone and you but whatever the bike thing rumors floating as their [TS]

  top of the line touch type thing like the iPhone was better to use it was [TS]

  nicer you had access to better apps there are more fun to use it was easier [TS]

  everything about it was better if you give a kid and iPod touch and a [TS]

  significantly cheaper Nintendo 3ds their intended to des delivered [TS]

  a far superior gaming experience than the iPod Touch like I kinda disagree [TS]

  with that totally superior gaming experience for all but the all but the [TS]

  very very most casual games Angry Birds cut the rope stuff like that it is the [TS]

  intent handled gives the is more valuable that's why the games can [TS]

  command a higher price because they're more valuable to people who really [TS]

  really love games love Nintendo handheld if you disagree you like games you would [TS]

  like to know help better than an iPod Touch and in the same way the people who [TS]

  are gaga for smartphones and love smartphones love the iPhone they did not [TS]

  know that RIM became start location and I think you're judging criteria like [TS]

  rena screens it it's meaningless on Nintendo's handheld [TS]

  disagree with you there I guess they're not displaying text and it's not it's [TS]

  definitely not better at all things and i co-wrote there's certainly some games [TS]

  where you wanna D patton buttons no doubt about it and those are you know [TS]

  traditionally nintendo's bread-and-butter games because they've [TS]

  built the game specifically for the hardware and again I'm not advising the [TS]

  day just take the existing games and put a virtual keypad on iOS and call it a [TS]

  day I think you know if they're going to do it they've gotta make games that are [TS]

  meant to be run I was but the same the weather was a few things though their [TS]

  BlackBerry was and maybe even today is still better at Iowa State are very few [TS]

  but its specific to messaging like going through email and I remember one time [TS]

  years ago i dont know is probably back in 2008 and I think it was one of the [TS]

  reasons that it it it was sort of grist for MyWi room is screwed post I remember [TS]

  getting picked up at the airport and San Francisco with my friend Jason Hoffman [TS]

  who used to work he's still there [TS]

  join and it was a bike or incidents like we were both I think so maybe [TS]

  misremembered the details but I was in San Francisco me probably for an Apple [TS]

  event [TS]

  and he was arriving from somewhere and a mutual friend picked us both up and I [TS]

  was in a car with him and he had heard he was one of the guys with the time had [TS]

  a Blackberry and I was a little surprised back from us Thanks [TS]

  and he used the BlackBerry just freemen and I he gave me and it in the car like [TS]

  a big demo of you here's why he was so efficient it was so amazingly quick to [TS]

  go message the message the message and pick up a return that he could get [TS]

  through here had like a long flight and it was in the area when I was a lot [TS]

  harder time maybe they weren't even over wifi flights at the time but he didn't [TS]

  have wifi so we had like a whole days worth of email and went through them [TS]

  boom boom boom boom boom in a way that you would be a lot slower and less [TS]

  efficient and as I said is pretty interesting and in his career he gives [TS]

  his conclusions yet rooms toilets group that I bet they're out of business two [TS]

  years that he used the thing and enjoyed it but completely recognize why they [TS]

  were totally screw all the hardware software keyboard difference i think is [TS]

  another one another instructive on because I think they know they seem [TS]

  somewhat like a Nintendo ya know you got hardware controls now but that's the [TS]

  passcode come two touchdowns but there it's not a big thing with the comparison [TS]

  with blackberry though is that they had the hardware for like going up and down [TS]

  in your messages which is way better than any way to get from message the [TS]

  message in Iowa still well I was like more of the harbour keeper because that [TS]

  was the thing that people like I can type in this offer keyboard but it's [TS]

  it's so different then touch controls for gaming vs like buttons and deep ads [TS]

  and stuff because like with the heart of a software keyboard it was the same [TS]

  number buttons and they were advantages to the software keyboard the harbor and [TS]

  couldn't match like you could reconfigure this offer keyboard you can [TS]

  do predictive hit areas but you couldn't do with the hardware keyboard buttons [TS]

  can get bigger biznews knows that the next likely character is probably not [TS]

  are right it does offer keyboard has advantages that so it was like a [TS]

  superset was like everyone our bookkeeper can do it all the same [TS]

  buttons and also we can do things that you can do and he gets out of your way [TS]

  when when you don't touch versus hardware buttons on on gaming devices [TS]

  such only has an advantage in a narrow band of games like Angry Birds or cut [TS]

  the rope or any kind of touch type games but it has massive sort of exclusion [TS]

  exclusionary disadvantages and different kind of games like you can't make a [TS]

  whole class of very popular games that people like to play if your fingers on [TS]

  the screen right true and so it's like it's hot it's not like this is exactly [TS]

  the killing you got shoulder buttons you got face fines go deep and it's just [TS]

  that now they're all software nevermind that that would be terrible to use as [TS]

  well as you know from trying to keep things it's not a superset it is really [TS]

  really narrowly defined and it enters you into a certain area game in the [TS]

  question is like maybe that is the old way on know that's the old way when [TS]

  people stop one play games that require those controls so you're watching you [TS]

  watching who who's who's gonna buy these things so they selling 3ds is are they [TS]

  selling are they going to sell two DS's are they selling game only Harbor people [TS]

  buying consoles that's how you'll know when it's a problem that's why I think [TS]

  it's already a problem that the numbers that Lucas Matthysse cited his response [TS]

  to me that had the 3ds is selling ok it was a hundred and thirty months or weeks [TS]

  in I guess week's end you know which is a decent measure you know like two and a [TS]

  half years that the last generation Das was at 43 million in the 3ds is only at [TS]

  thirty-three million to its 23 percent down generation to generation and it [TS]

  just happens to coincide with the the rise of modern smartphones I think [TS]

  that's not I think that's the cause I don't think it's anything specific to [TS]

  the 3ds I think it's the fact that it's it's an era of the smartphone over it [TS]

  gets back to the idea of mike is the game all the hardware is there something [TS]

  that still gonna do it to beat you still just wanna buy it and i also know I know [TS]

  you know we've owned a bunch of 50 Nintendo hardware lot of Nintendo [TS]

  hardware over the years never been a serious gamer although I was younger I [TS]

  played a lot more but [TS]

  you know and I know that Nintendo has a cultural explicit cultural policy of [TS]

  embracing older lesser cheaper technology you know and the Gameboy [TS]

  famously didn't have a color screen until years after other competing ones [TS]

  did out sold them all and that you know the Wii famously was was you know like I [TS]

  wrote to David standard death i mean you know it's almost ridiculous that it [TS]

  wasn't I death and you know outsold the unit share basis PlayStation and Xbox [TS]

  but I think the big difference that they're facing again smartphones [TS]

  technically is that with the smartphones it's about you're asking me to carry a [TS]

  second device that their their policy of having lesser technology works for them [TS]

  when it was will you buy our thing that's cheaper and more fun even though [TS]

  its last technically advanced or the other guys thing which is more [TS]

  technically advanced but but not it maybe not as fun I think that's going to [TS]

  protect them and handled though because and handheld gaming like kids don't have [TS]

  smartphones like him in that I guess at a certain age they do maybe middle [TS]

  school high school or whatever but younger kids still play games and that's [TS]

  that's a market that may be protected from smartphone infiltration for a while [TS]

  anyway because people are going to give their kids but they will give them a [TS]

  Nintendo 3ds for Christmas yeah but I you know and and this is a lot of it is [TS]

  very very small sample size non-scientific polling based on fact [TS]

  that I have a nine year old son but he has a sample size of one has both the [TS]

  3ds and [TS]

  I France and he does play the 3ds but he plays the iPhone more and if it's like [TS]

  hey we're going out to dinner you can take something he takes in this is not [TS]

  you know not by me pushing him I'm certainly no in fact I almost wish he [TS]

  played the 3ds morals feeling you know maybe we haven't got our money's worth [TS]

  out of it and he plays it but I just seems to me like it when push comes to [TS]

  shove help take the iPhone and it's hard I try to ask him about it and you know [TS]

  it's only nine so it's hard to sort of it's hard for him to explain his choices [TS]

  but definitely part of it is that when you take your iPhone with you you take [TS]

  all your games with you and maybe none of the games are as fun as the best game [TS]

  for the 3ds but you've got them all and you can never lose cartridge he's only [TS]

  lost one 3ds cartridge which i think is pretty good for a night but he's never [TS]

  lost an iOS game so this is like he wants to take all of his 3ds games with [TS]

  him he's got to take a little like a briefcase [TS]

  like Nintendo's the tenders problems even if you assume that they're still [TS]

  market for gaming devices even if you get that is given because I think that [TS]

  is like that's like they're the red line and Nintendo's future and and probably [TS]

  the future of the Xbox and PlayStation as well as you know gaming hardware [TS]

  still a viable business and I think currently it still is [TS]

  don't know about the future right even if you allow for that you have to say [TS]

  okay intend to has other problems and a lot of those have to do with the things [TS]

  that I was does better than intended ease of purchase and installation and [TS]

  the whole ownership experience you just went through it [TS]

  cartridges no downloads yes nintendo's digital commerce stuff is way behind [TS]

  even like steam on the BC little on the App Store it's so much easier to deal [TS]

  with games in the App Store than any of any of really any of the platforms [TS]

  Microsoft Sony or Nintendo so Apple's Way ahead there and you know that you're [TS]

  seeing that that factor when you know making choices what do I so wanna be [TS]

  with you [TS]

  Nintendo is super dumb in this area like they they were tied their games their [TS]

  hardware so you can do a digital download but those are tied to a [TS]

  particularly hard when you get what you got to this crazy transfer process that [TS]

  makes Rd around else happy in [TS]

  screw up and all these terrible things right sony has actually some interesting [TS]

  ideas about this for the PlayStation 4 where they say all the right things they [TS]

  were still the right things right but like you're gonna have downloadable [TS]

  games will be downloaded by Disqus you don't want and they also have you know [TS]

  the interesting technology touting like so you gonna download this gigantic game [TS]

  for PlayStation you can start playing it even before the whole game is downloaded [TS]

  will tell them samples will immediately start screaming like the first level so [TS]

  you can start playing melee that's something that he too had of Apple if [TS]

  turns out to work right because Apple you want some you know multi-gigabit [TS]

  game on your iOS device to get away from home game download before you can play [TS]

  it so Sony is at least saying the right things marks off had some really [TS]

  interesting ideas about like lending games and resale like you could lend the [TS]

  game to any person your family for free by up to 10 people or whatever without [TS]

  having them to rebuy it would transfer you know people freaked out about that [TS]

  for DRM reasons they did some of the stupid things when they backed out a lot [TS]

  of decisions but what's the joke that it should be called the Microsoft the new [TS]

  platform Microsoft 180 X Box 186 handle these grand plans were actually really [TS]

  often and half of them were terrible and they just said I'll never mind what do [TS]

  we do with the 360 right and you could just take a disk back and tell me [TS]

  exactly but like the Nintendo is way behind there and that i think is a much [TS]

  more pressing problem that the things you've listened that they like even if [TS]

  you say gaming thing is going to be future you gotta get your act together [TS]

  it's got to be easy to buy and deal with games that is as it is in the App Store [TS]

  and it's not and that's really going to hurt them and online gaming and [TS]

  collaboration I don't know that Apple is ahead here microsoft certainly is in the [TS]

  lead with Xbox Live are you all your friends and go online to play with them [TS]

  and Sony Nintendo both not been doing well and it's always been trying to be [TS]

  like family friendly and stuff but like the limiting access downlines you don't [TS]

  have people like cursing at you and everything but that that's an area where [TS]

  they're all kinda like fumbling and are not quite up to the standards you want [TS]

  them to be the final thing is market access like it's it's easier to get a [TS]

  game in the App Store than it is to get a game on at endo Sony or Microsoft [TS]

  platforms [TS]

  those are the biggest problems facing antenna right now aside from the the [TS]

  medical question of whether game only con game only products [TS]

  valid is all that stuff that Iowa's does better and that makes it so that people [TS]

  say I'm gonna have me my buddy you're gonna make an iOS game we're gonna like [TS]

  why aren't you making demagogue that's paying about our own however do that you [TS]

  know it's not easy to buy things there and I just tell people to go on their [TS]

  phones and download this app like those are all big problems that the Nintendo [TS]

  has but all the things that you listed about the hardware everything I think [TS]

  you're missing the forest for the trees because like I mean I like you listed [TS]

  resistive touchscreens a problem like I said they're like I feel like a relic [TS]

  from museum like their reasons for the resistive touchscreens not not that [TS]

  they're never gonna happen forever but the first reason is like precision [TS]

  because fingers get in the way more than than a stylist does and Nintendo had [TS]

  specific games in mind that I want you to be able to use a stylus with the [TS]

  union the competition like to draw the path for links boomerang on the Delta [TS]

  games or whatever so you're gonna have a styles and if you have a stylist you [TS]

  know pressure-sensitive is the only option they had that time and also once [TS]

  you give someone a stylist they're gonna jam that thing to the screen like crazy [TS]

  and you cannot have someone jabbing a pointy thing into a glass screen just [TS]

  cracked or at the very least it'll make it big enough to scare her off and be [TS]

  unpleasant and it will be as nice you gotta have resisted for that and for the [TS]

  resolution it's not a Retina screen but like the specs of handhelds nintendo's [TS]

  handled anyway are pretty easily explained by the focus is gaming only [TS]

  machine so you don't have to show texture you know beautiful things like [TS]

  rena graphics order and the price is super high res diminishing returns in [TS]

  terms of fun factor like over certain rather you do not need 300 dpi for 3d [TS]

  graphics game you won't even notice that I'll just be it's just it's completely [TS]

  sunk you know Harbor costs that you're just paying bills takes us out and son [TS]

  attended shows the balance that led to hit like a low price point and still [TS]

  make a profit on this thing and I was trying to look up before the show like [TS]

  what the power specs are for like what is more powerful in terms of three [TS]

  processing power 3ds or you know what I paid for and all I can find more specs [TS]

  like the you know the previous generation of iPod harbor and yeah the [TS]

  iPad GPUs away are still reagan's they're filling in for a Retina screen [TS]

  and the tender ones don't have to have that kind of power but the 3d power in [TS]

  those things it's not an impressive and I'm pretty sure that using 65 nanometer [TS]

  chips and that which is insane because Apple's like using 32 and soon-to-be 28 [TS]

  thank you know state of the art of like trying to write so if you're right it is [TS]

  older technology but that their focus so much on like durability price you know [TS]

  accessibility to young people as a as a as a products for the handhelds very [TS]

  specifically that I can justify everyone from the decisions they made and I think [TS]

  I putting them on ATP that the TDS is not doomed in the market like it's not [TS]

  it's not crazy to think that when Pokemon XY come out that bunch of [TS]

  parents are gonna buy their kids this thing is the cheapest way to get this [TS]

  game and I remember you on the site also think it was preparing like it's only [TS]

  $40 cheaper yeah I didn't seem like a lot [TS]

  well what if I told you that you had taken you know the the iPhone 5 and [TS]

  shave $40 off the price but you can't change me the specs has done the same [TS]

  manner and has to be just as fast I just need $4 off the price are you can't get [TS]

  into the camera can't do anything USA for details on the price is not easy to [TS]

  bring $40 I don't like it's not like this is like the Nintendo 3ds is like [TS]

  the iPhone for us like the previous generation is cheaper it runs all 3ds [TS]

  games granted on 3d but like it runs them that doesn't have any sort of [TS]

  disadvantages in terms of speed or anything [TS]

  40 bucks out of this thing and gratitude that $40 is a lot more when the its 25% [TS]

  as opposed to it probably might be easier to shave $40 off and iPhone 5 [TS]

  because it's already seven hundred dollars and the profit as opposed to [TS]

  shaving 25% right putting in percentage terms makes it more impressive than in [TS]

  dollar terms but I don't like you're impressed by it and these are ATP the [TS]

  TDS is not the move of you know it's not a power moves out some of the top of [TS]

  their game saying we rule the handheld market now making its you know they want [TS]

  to sell more gotta get the price lower [TS]

  how how can we pull cost out of Apple still making a good day [TS]

  aiming device like it's it's a desperation move but it's also not a [TS]

  like supremely confident we rule the market in fact we're gonna make you more [TS]

  money because the Martins I have to be lower [TS]

  gonna make it less money on it they're going to try to make it happen volume by [TS]

  lowering the price and sell more of them and and maybe they will but you know I [TS]

  don't think it's a terrible product I think there's a chance that it will sell [TS]

  pretty well if it doesn't it's probably not because the progress as bad but it's [TS]

  probably because of you know all the other than intended doesn't do as well [TS]

  as as I was does it mean if you look at a powerful handheld PlayStation Vita [TS]

  which is way more powerful than 3ds and has lots of interesting features and yet [TS]

  he was crushed by Nintendo in the market because though has more interesting [TS]

  things and better and more fun games right I think you know hand-held [TS]

  dedicated gaming device forces handheld gaming dedicated gaming device [TS]

  nintendo's in good shape and that their strategy continues to work and they [TS]

  don't need leading tech I think the problem is again smartphones its you're [TS]

  asking me to carry a second device in the same thing it faces camera makers [TS]

  right and I you know I point this out of my ass but I can only assume [TS]

  camera sales are slowing in the face of people having smartphones they're good [TS]

  enough you're putting it all back to is there is there a place for gaming only [TS]

  piece of hardware and right and you know music players obviously iPod sales are [TS]

  way down even including the iPod Touch and iPod sales which really prompts [TS]

  those numbers up and I really wish almost maybe if there's one thing I wish [TS]

  Apple would do differently in its financial reports it would be to report [TS]

  the iPod Touch separately from the other iPods but those are way down every other [TS]

  second device is way down i mean you know I think famously I think it's [TS]

  almost been the biggest distraction in trying to talk about these things over [TS]

  the last seven years is that we call them smart phones when they're really [TS]

  not phones their little computers that can be phones the traditional phone [TS]

  market is estimated profit wise maybe not unit share wise [TS]

  even know smartphones in a lot of ways aren't even great phone's IMEI the verge [TS]

  had a thing this week with the new damn phone from Nokia that gets actually [TS]

  looks pretty cool as a dump on and it gets like a ridiculous it was like [TS]

  thirty eight hours of battery life I forget what it was ridiculous it was [TS]

  like a week of battery life more I don't know it was charged my phone once a week [TS]

  yeah it was just stupid which is better at to have a phone that you don't have [TS]

  to worry about charging everyday is way better just in terms of late hey if [TS]

  somebody needs me I'm available and my phones not great but it's that asking [TS]

  people to carry a second device you know what we call smartphones are hurting all [TS]

  of them and the thing that really hurts something like the DSP platform or [TS]

  whatever the next generation is going to be called is that unlike say the camera [TS]

  maker like Nikon or Canon which can still profitably make more continue [TS]

  making points dedicated point-and-shoot cameras even if they're selling fewer of [TS]

  them in absolute terms is that a software platform like a gaming device [TS]

  needs that network effect of having enough people out there to make it [TS]

  worthwhile to make the game that's why I think you should have been crapping on [TS]

  the Wii U more because the handheld space [TS]

  Tendo am amazed we still have problems but it's not concurrently imminent [TS]

  danger of collapse whereas the stop sign and tender is in worse shape because the [TS]

  Wii U is not doing anything that they want out there in the market and it's [TS]

  about to be run over by I assume the PlayStation 4 on that next I think both [TS]

  going to come out of a much stronger than the way you did you I don't know [TS]

  anything about the actual specs of the way you accept that we only [TS]

  and we we also have PlayStation 3 which I've got like two games for but it seems [TS]

  to me like just looking at them that the Wii U is finally like caught up to the [TS]

  PlayStation 3 yeah that's pretty much where it's gone it's a previous its [TS]

  previous generation harbored it looks roughly equivalent to meet you know in [TS]

  terms of graphics as the PlayStation 3 [TS]

  what we've got is Jonas into the Batman Arkham games which are like totally [TS]

  inappropriate for a nine year old that we've got the one on PlayStation 3 and [TS]

  the other one we went to me graphically they look almost indistinguishable which [TS]

  makes me think that the PlayStation 4 is gonna come down so the reason that I [TS]

  think you're way off with you with the iOS games right because it doesn't like [TS]

  again assuming that you assume that there that there still place for gaming [TS]

  hardware and the Nintendo is going to be in that you have to look at the way then [TS]

  Tendo has how they succeeded what what what defines Nintendo and how are they [TS]

  able to be a successful company the gets tells you things that you play games on [TS]

  and possibly other things but not like a software platform and the wave antenna [TS]

  succeeded over its entire history in the gaming world hinges on as I'm sure many [TS]

  people have emailed you about the synergy of hardware and software like [TS]

  Apple which is why people keep bringing that up right and I mean if you had to [TS]

  pick three things I think like the NES like the original NES what was billed as [TS]

  the hardware and software synergy there like why did why couldn't they just [TS]

  making sure that was after the day you know game system crash the Atari crash [TS]

  and everything and no one wants to sell game consoles as it was a sucker [TS]

  business so they put their robot with it a rob the robot like that like a decoy [TS]

  to you know to get the thing into the store shelves and get people to buy like [TS]

  this is like an Atari that stupid thing to have this terrible games that just [TS]

  this is a robot within the robot like people threw that away who knows but the [TS]

  robots when like once you've got the thing and you played Super Mario Bros [TS]

  like screw their robot like [TS]

  it was a total geek but they can make the hardware they could put that stupid [TS]

  robot in it to some degree or whatever and get things into people's homes then [TS]

  so now we got things from you we can help you know make and they also make [TS]

  the harbour cheap way cheaper than a PC of the day like the game console model [TS]

  was no defined by the Qatari dole's people but it was it was dead people [TS]

  that don't do that again so they too had to control the hardware to get the thing [TS]

  into people's hands and then the N 64 was 3d of course in this is a very [TS]

  powerful example them totally you know cannibalizing their own product they [TS]

  were defined by little side-scrolling things that marianne jump over stuff and [TS]

  they said no no more that the next mayor game is not going to be two-dimensional [TS]

  you're not gonna run from left to right and jump and you know Angeles 323 just [TS]

  gonna be in the end of the company but it wasn't and other other people got the [TS]

  before them like you know there was the Sega Saturn and the PlayStation all came [TS]

  out before they are all capable of 3d why didn't they intend to lunch well [TS]

  because Nintendo is on the hardware and software together and was able to make [TS]

  them work in synergy analog stick on the control is that we're going 3d and we [TS]

  can't go 3d with a deep every got to have an analog stick other guys could [TS]

  have done it they didn't until after intended and that made it such an [TS]

  amazing experience of Mary 64 and and the analog stick that was the hardware [TS]

  software synergy they could not have put mara 64 on the Sega Saturn they couldn't [TS]

  have put it on the PlayStation right and that we was exactly the same thing you [TS]

  know they were down in the dumps they had been in last place I have three [TS]

  competitors in the past to console generation selling fewer and fewer with [TS]

  each successive product they put out and so you're in you're in last place in the [TS]

  next generation you're also in last place even more so right and so they [TS]

  come with that we that is the one piece of hardware that standard death way do [TS]

  they were less pleased to announce a new the GameCube [TS]

  what was the one before that 64 heart that was last place three times as many [TS]

  PlayStation sold is intended for that's funny because I had a contender 64 and [TS]

  just so you know what I do remember from that you know what I remember from there [TS]

  I did I had a Nintendo 64 and that was the era when blockbuster rented games in [TS]

  my then remained at the time I remember that now in hindsight we were so pissed [TS]

  because you go there and Blockbuster would have like 40 awesome PlayStation [TS]

  games and and to Nintendo games and they were amazing things in the platform some [TS]

  of the best games of his generation older they were losing great stuff but [TS]

  not doing well and so when we came out like this is terrible is hardware specs [TS]

  about it we're terrible and it would look ridiculous but you know that you [TS]

  know we know what happened right totally crushed all of its competitors with the [TS]

  worst hardware you could possibly ever imagined was basically just over you [TS]

  know overclock GameCube again [TS]

  previous generation hardware and they couldn't have done that if they didn't [TS]

  also make the hardware because there's no way you can sell Wii Sports on any [TS]

  other platforms [TS]

  right well why can't they make iOS games while they continue to make their own [TS]

  and just expand into it like I you know like my analogy like weird isn't he went [TS]

  made TV shows and kept making feature films why can't they treat this as a [TS]

  third opportunity where they went from console to console and handheld with the [TS]

  GameBoy and they've kept going the DSi and treat mobile phones as a third [TS]

  opportunity why would they take like they have something good right and they [TS]

  know they know they can't make something has good for someone else platform but I [TS]

  think it's because it shrinking and I think it's inevitably going to continue [TS]

  to shrink I think if they've only sold 33 million of this one in a hundred and [TS]

  thirty months then the next generation when the matter what it looks like [TS]

  they're only gonna sell 15 well if you take the past as a as an indicator of [TS]

  possible attitude they went to entire console generations being in last place [TS]

  in doing worse and worse and didn't execute the plan you're suggesting maybe [TS]

  this current drop with the Wii U is is work much worse than his previous ones [TS]

  so we'll see but they make so much more money selling games on their own [TS]

  platforms they want someone else if you think the cautionary tale save the [TS]

  people keep bringing up you know once you're just a software maker you live [TS]

  and die by the hits you like a movie studio right and it's our platforms you [TS]

  don't control with promotion to do yourself you can't like promote your own [TS]

  stuff inside [TS]

  you don't control the platform like Apple doesn't own its own store is no [TS]

  ongoing platform royalties or hardware profits to sustain you while you're [TS]

  making these games like hit studios like you gotta have you hit movie gotta have [TS]

  it and if you don't have it then you're screwed like you don't want to be in the [TS]

  business of publishing games the software the game software business is [TS]

  terrible and cutthroat that's why there's so few people still ended the so [TS]

  much consolidation because even if you have it came time to have a game in the [TS]

  studio closes anyway are you get brought up by a competitor liquidated it is not [TS]

  the business you want to be in much better to be in the business of selling [TS]

  platform make a little money on the hardware and then making platform [TS]

  royalties for every game that's all in your platform and be able to tell your [TS]

  own games on your platform for way more money than you can charge the same games [TS]

  in the App Store I totally agree with all of that I just don't think it's [TS]

  feasible going forward I just don't think especially on hand out I just [TS]

  don't think that it's feasible because you're asking people to carry a second [TS]

  device you may be right about the handheld market because it's like if I [TS]

  think about the the reason I think less about the handheld market tomorrow but [TS]

  television market because it's because like I'm kind of amazed at the number of [TS]

  3ds as they continue to sell it makes me think that there's still a market for [TS]

  people who want to play you know deep games on a handheld and the reason I [TS]

  think that market is protected is because no one with the exception of [TS]

  Sony seems to want it [TS]

  Microsoft as we mentioned earlier there's no portable Xbox they're not [TS]

  getting into that doesn't for whatever reason right [TS]

  sony has tried to compete with Nintendo in this area for so long and has very [TS]

  often had interesting devices it wasn't the first one the best selling I thought [TS]

  the from the there's an older PlayStation hand-held that was the [TS]

  best-selling hand-held of all time [TS]

  PSP yeah [TS]

  what was the best seller of all time that somebody had an article one of [TS]

  these ones that was that the DES was the second best of all time but that the [TS]

  best of all time was the PSP game boy certainly wasn't the PSP but it's only [TS]

  has tried to compete and is not quite done it right but Apple does not want [TS]

  that market despite they're like oh you can I use a controller is your iOS [TS]

  devices I so far has not been interested in selling you a device that has buttons [TS]

  and shoulder buttons and triggers and stuff and lets you play traditional [TS]

  games like that and so is that market goes away then find those guys go away [TS]

  but if there that's why there continues to be a market for you wanna play games [TS]

  that can be played with a shoulder buttons and face buttons and Apple [TS]

  doesn't want that market and Sony can't be content to in the Nintendo keeps them [TS]

  well that's why I think that they could do it and continue to make the devices [TS]

  and let the devices before the more serious game players who want those [TS]

  extra hardware things and make different games that are specific for mobile and I [TS]

  think the extra money on that everybody motivated people from buying things and [TS]

  your suggestion americorps I don't wanna play with touch controls nobody wants to [TS]

  do that like any maybe they saw a bunch of copies they sell tons of copies if [TS]

  they if they put Super Mario Brothers 2d side scroller with an on-screen keypad [TS]

  sure that sought copies but it's not the experiences they want and he motivates [TS]

  people from buying the platforms to make much more money like I mean say say it [TS]

  went so far only cuz it had to hardware failed and it didn't have it didn't have [TS]

  the bank the bank roll and you know the history and the stability of Nintendo [TS]

  right so it's Dreamcast to make it in the market and they had two eggs at the [TS]

  harvard business software I just don't want to see Nintendo wait until they [TS]

  have to be too late [TS]

  well and they have a lot more a lot more time on their side that the reason I'm [TS]

  worried so much about the television console space more than the portable and [TS]

  because like I said the portable on Apple seems not to be not to want that [TS]

  they're not going to come in Apple or Microsoft thing people who come in there [TS]

  and not intend to [TS]

  around so he's been trying to knock around doesn't succeed Apple could but I [TS]

  don't think they want it but in the television attached console space they [TS]

  think they have a problem because it's much easier for Apple to almost [TS]

  accidentally crushed them in the market and the portable gaming market I'm not [TS]

  so sure about that because I don't think the 3ds would be a viable platform still [TS]

  is but if Apple produces a television attached device with the GPU power of [TS]

  the iPad 4 in it which is not inconceivable that they could ship a [TS]

  little pup ship thing like that and hooks up to the App Store right you know [TS]

  you're not going to touch your TV screen anyways so there has to be some kind of [TS]

  doing that but suddenly the idea of apple or someone else like giving you a [TS]

  game controller for your television connected Apple device for the GPU and [TS]

  that's comfortable in power to what seemed like you know now that is a big [TS]

  problem for Nintendo or any other company for the television attached [TS]

  console because it makes it really easy to buy games it really easy to manage [TS]

  games the hunter worry about all that and makes it really easy to develop [TS]

  games and anybody who wants to make a game can get it on their TV and you can [TS]

  play it and that is around where I think Apple maybe not would be enthusiastic [TS]

  about making controller whatever time the controller is a possibility because [TS]

  the control like if you try to sell like a third party control I go by my game [TS]

  from the App Store for your phone but you need this weird thing I think that's [TS]

  a harder sell than buying in for TV and of course you need this week which is [TS]

  how the house you can play a game on TV you can't touch the screen you're not [TS]

  gonna play with their remote right so you know the new Apple TV has Bluetooth [TS]

  and there's the App Store now and you can play Mike like I don't think that's [TS]

  apples plan or whatever but that is a bigger danger to especially with the way [TS]

  you totally taking that kind of danger of a competitor does all the things [TS]

  right then attended was wrong and also by the way has a reasonably viable game [TS]

  platform at that point that could really you know if you take away all of all of [TS]

  Nintendo's television that console sales all they've got left is the portable [TS]

  don't know that's enough to subsidize the next you know builder mara 3d again [TS]

  will see the good discussion before I let you go I have a question for a [TS]

  serious question let's say that the group household was thinking about maybe [TS]

  maybe by ps4 or or Xbox one which is which one looks like it's gonna be [TS]

  better place for question right onto doing research this is like when Amy [TS]

  usually want Marco to research something whatever we want to buy something I [TS]

  thought why would I even look into this I'll just get Syracuse on the show and I [TS]

  just asked him and i dont have to look into it [TS]

  yeah it's the purest plain old attached you play games of it it's got everything [TS]

  going for it has none of the weird you don't even have to explain it don't even [TS]

  explain it could not go before we go as we've been on we've been recording for [TS]

  four hours have you seen this is the lasting just came out like a day or two [TS]

  ago Venture Beat has reported pictures of samsung Smart Watch that there's [TS]

  going to be announced three days they've been talking to you I gotta see this [TS]

  before we say I am going to go with that they've been pumped and I mean I'm not [TS]

  even joking I'm not even in the link to it from doing fireball until somebody I [TS]

  i'm not going to lead to a fireball I'm not I'm not gonna do it because I don't [TS]

  want this is one of the things I live in fear is that somebody is gonna post [TS]

  perfect somebody else is going to fall for a prank but it's right in my [TS]

  wheelhouse and fits with my preconceived biases and I'm gonna go on for the ride [TS]

  to and make some wisecrack about it and it's going to turn out it was the whole [TS]

  thing was a punk [TS]

  because this thing I don't think that's beyond the Samsung to produce I don't [TS]

  either that's so I'm tempted I think it could be real but it's so bad that I get [TS]

  so bad I'm not going to until somebody can confirm I get my guess would have [TS]

  been that this is a private already exists you know that this doesn't sound [TS]

  like something that maybe came out two years ago it probably already exists [TS]

  taking jobs that bad I was seen as possible just because maybe no news [TS]

  about it didn't sell out but someone dug up a picture in the catalog and there it [TS]

  is [TS]

  into looks like a Saturday Night Live skit it's like an iPhone 3G and iPhone [TS]

  strapped to the cut somebody's rest is nothing in the screenshots right I don't [TS]

  think so bothersome there there's like the logo and there's a little help I I [TS]

  can't help but think it's posts something you know like some kind of [TS]

  health tracker looks like it's you know it's like a bar graph I don't know I [TS]

  like the little drawings showing like the pencil drawings of the side view [TS]

  that seems more plausible to me I could have done everything and it looks like [TS]

  it didn't come out two years ago this is really bad I think it's ok but boy if [TS]

  this is it is exactly what I thought it was gonna be which is you cannot believe [TS]

  how bad Samsung is designing something when they don't have even tried maybe [TS]

  it's an amazing transformative I like how you been on the drawings it's so big [TS]

  that it's it's double the width of the rest of the drug photoshop job it looks [TS]

  like it's the strap is too big like tilting like a little kid wearing is [TS]

  that swatch [TS]

  I can't wait to see if this is real I'm I'm so worried that it's not that I'm [TS]

  like spice shots and rumours linking to the eight thousand pictures of the [TS]

  iPhone 5 C or whatever you want something to talk about an ounce exactly [TS]

  I think the gold thing seems to do with the gold iPhone do you think it's going [TS]

  to be the white iPhone now has gold metallic trim or is it a third of its [TS]

  whatever keeps saying I kind of agree with the people think the black and gold [TS]

  might be good but like I don't think it's crazy for it to be champagne [TS]

  colored yeah I don't think so either I don't think it's crazy it's not really [TS]

  my taste but I've never bought the white one anyway but I feel like if the only [TS]

  way to get away with that I feel like that's asking a lot for people who do [TS]

  like white I gotta gotta stick with the white and black and the nice thing but [TS]

  then what face does this thing have white face so there'll be two white ones [TS]

  you think one with the plain silver trim and won gold and I am I saying that just [TS]

  because that's everything that I've her I don't know I tend to think otherwise I [TS]

  see I tend to think it's more Apple like that if they're only gonna have black [TS]

  and white faces that there's one black overall color scheme and one white [TS]

  overall color scheme and I just feel like that would be more Apple even [TS]

  though personally I would find that disappointing it's very difficult to [TS]

  make judgments like this when all you see here are you know mock-ups in like [TS]

  the exact color of gold dictates whether it looks awful with wider good with ya [TS]

  and everything we've seen you know if I do so much smoke with the gold trim that [TS]

  it I feel like there's enough smoke than willing to say there's problems [TS]

  certainly a fire but it's all based on like weird component leaks and it's [TS]

  somebody with a cellphone taking a picture of a thing under fluorescent [TS]

  lights and tons of markets 8,000 markets at this event could look like colors [TS]

  materials maybe I can get with you become fashion as long as you know [TS]

  donation or flower power I hadn't even thought about the fact that could be the [TS]

  black one then I would be a real dilemma for me personally like you well that's [TS]

  assuming there is a totally blame if my choice if my choice were between a white [TS]

  one with silver trim and black faced one with gold trim she's on an adapted to [TS]

  look at him but I was 7 makes the white one something more attractive for the [TS]

  obsessive people who want things like match like you know what I was 7 looks [TS]

  like it was made for the white iPhone I you know people have said that I don't [TS]

  see that I have been running seven bidders ever since beta 3 black iPhone [TS]

  and I don't see it as any less cohesive you're right you're right in reality but [TS]

  in the product shots look yeah I reality always remind people never by white iOS [TS]

  devices all you're doing is highlighting how bad the White is on those screens [TS]

  right because the white on the screen is never going to be as wide as the real [TS]

  white thing especially in sunlight is gonna look worse and worse all you're [TS]

  doing is making your screen look danger and crappier by putting bright white [TS]

  black screen looks amazing to see like everything else fades away and I will [TS]

  totally believe that white on that screen is exactly what what should look [TS]

  like as i dont have three millimeters from it [TS]

  piece of white plastic that's why would look like if I wasn't looking at you [TS]

  know any glowing backlight yeah I do agree that it it looks better it would [TS]

  look better in their product product shots in fact already does in their in [TS]

  their Iowa 7 [TS]

  everything in their products magic magic yeah perfect way into you know it's like [TS]

  the same white that in the background of their commercials [TS]

  heavenly way [TS]

  I don't call the show it was good to me [TS]