The Talk Show

49: Mountains of Garbage


  have you been watching the Tour de France no have you actually have a [TS]

  really into it and I i bring it up not not because I think gets i think is a [TS]

  little too obscured ever become mainstream it's kind of like the perfect [TS]

  summer not too much is going on so I can watch something for five hours a day and [TS]

  not really feel crazy but the reason I brought it up as it's actually kind of [TS]

  the perfect like iOS Apple TV like future of TV product because it's so [TS]

  long and the so that the TV network that carries it which is like the NBC Sports [TS]

  Network which used to be called vs they stuffed full of commercials in the end [TS]

  they only show part of it and they make it really annoying so you can actually [TS]

  buy an iPad app for 15 bucks that that streams the entire thing live starting [TS]

  at like 6 a.m. Eastern Time everyday cuz it's happening in france and you can [TS]

  airplanes your TV so it's basically and then you can re-watch all of it at night [TS]

  time if you miss it that day so it's one of those things where I'm so happy to [TS]

  spend $15 to get this wonderful you know full coverage live no commercial thing [TS]

  and you know this is only possible because of my iPad and airplay basically [TS]

  this is the kind of thing that just [TS]

  I guess MLB has been doing this for a long time but this is one of those [TS]

  things where it's once a year for three weeks and it's just the perfect kind of [TS]

  futuristic TV experience sounds like a great deal I wouldn't hesitate to pay [TS]

  them fifteen 15 bucks and its 20 days event right that's three weeks and it's [TS]

  like I said you know for five hours a day so you know what no commercials it's [TS]

  really great I bring this up because you know once again in the talks about [TS]

  potentially Apple or Google or someone like that [TS]

  picking up the direct direct TVs current rights too [TS]

  NFL Sunday Ticket and you know how cool that would be for its a lunch the the [TS]

  big apple television with the NFL deal that would be pretty cool I don't know [TS]

  how realistic that is but yeah I don't know I mean there is the thing that [TS]

  makes me think that it might be possible is that the dish network isn't it it's [TS]

  dish network that has ordered the other one [TS]

  DirecTV right although you know everyone thinks they're gonna emerge to anyway so [TS]

  I like the the satellite radio on SiriusXM because there's only two and [TS]

  they're still probably getting their butts kicked by cable [TS]

  exactly why I've heard that that's really sort of the only reason DirecTV [TS]

  is even in business you know the debt deal that NFL deal is so important I [TS]

  think that's a big thing and obviously you know the parts of the country that [TS]

  don't have FIOS or or good cable access that's really your best option for PhD [TS]

  and they were they were way ahead of the cable companies even a lot of them at [TS]

  least with over a hundred AHT channels and all that stuff so I guess there are [TS]

  some redeeming qualities to direct tv but I would guess that pretty much [TS]

  everyone I know who has it only has it because of the football deal so I [TS]

  couldn't see I'll be doing it every time I bring this up this idea that Apple [TS]

  should should buy out either buy it you know get it [TS]

  steal it from or overbid I guess I don't mean steel but overbid you know pay more [TS]

  than the DirecTV can afford to pay to get the NFL or added on as you know [TS]

  somehow get it to be non-exclusive I don't know just somehow throw money at [TS]

  the at the NFL until they say ok you can show the games on Apple TV would be a [TS]

  huge deal in [TS]

  in the United States whenever I bring this up people from outside the United [TS]

  States a widely held when I care about this I understand the point would be it [TS]

  wouldn't just be that Apple would only get rights to us' pro football and [TS]

  that's it they would obviously that would be part of a strategy to do the [TS]

  same thing around the world [TS]

  get Cricket in India soccer all over the place obviously soccer in and everywhere [TS]

  else you know that's the kind of thing where I think die-hard soccer fans are [TS]

  already had the streaming services that are they are pretty solid I'm and I [TS]

  remember in the middle school my friend would stream you know Windows Media real [TS]

  video or something [TS]

  soccer games for the Champions League or something like that so it's not like [TS]

  this is a new idea but this is the kind of thing we're even just these little [TS]

  updates on the AppleTV have made it a lot more interesting and useful to me [TS]

  like that HBO Go thing that was added you know I've been able to watch HBO Go [TS]

  on a computer and an iPad for a long time but when it's one click away and [TS]

  it's sitting there already on your TV I just tore through that whole season of [TS]

  ice for example just cause it was so easy to think about it I don't have to [TS]

  borrow my iPad on my iPhone for airplay or anything like that so I'm really [TS]

  excited about that even just a little update they've been making been great [TS]

  but like we can get the Tour de France on there and then maybe some sort of [TS]

  live Olympic stuff I could be really cool you know i i when i when they added [TS]

  HBO go to the Apple TV box I don't think I tweeted a nap done it go with with its [TS]

  super nerdy stuff that I don't wanna bother her followers with but 234 me [TS]

  well when I signed up for it on my iPad and iPhone whenever a year ago when [TS]

  you're in Africa whenever HBO Go came out I mean I am a cable subscriber and [TS]

  we do have HBO I paid Comcast for HBO so when I did that I got on the iPad and I [TS]

  had to sign in with my Comcast I D and password [TS]

  and HBO obviously you know they have there's enough consolidation where [TS]

  there's a dozen two dozen cable providers in the USA that they go [TS]

  through and they have deals with I guess they somehow the back in talks to all so [TS]

  comcast is in with them they are authorised a check with Comcast Comcast [TS]

  goes yeah this guy is HBO's subscriber and then go out on the iPad work wasn't [TS]

  too bad too much of a hassle but with Apple TV one I just went to the channel [TS]

  or whatever you call it on Apple TV and it worked I don't have to login I don't [TS]

  have to do anything so I I can only guess that it's like an IP address [TS]

  things like that somehow they could tell from my IP address them getting my [TS]

  internet through Comcast and I don't know I have no idea how that work to do [TS]

  so that's not how it worked for me I'm on time warner cable and I actually had [TS]

  to go to a web page and login and then type in a pin code into the web page and [TS]

  then it synced up with my Apple TV on the back end but I think I read [TS]

  somewhere that Comcast has a new authentication system that just you know [TS]

  that quote unquote just works for that kind of stuff which which is smart [TS]

  because they can because they know that that's your cable modem and it's in your [TS]

  house [TS]

  have to say it was honestly one of the most amazing authentication experiences [TS]

  I've ever had really was because I was really dreading the sit there and type [TS]

  it in [TS]

  I just a huge pain and instead it literally just word but how cool it I [TS]

  remember writing about this stuff a couple years ago and people would say oh [TS]

  Apple will never work with the cable companies they you know they're they're [TS]

  trying to disrupt that that industry they'll never ever have a service react [TS]

  to log in with your cable dress and ensuring up here it is and you know some [TS]

  in your case it sounds like comcast has their their technology together so you [TS]

  don't even have to do that which is even better a tuner app be so then if you [TS]

  know whatever your kid has a TV in his room and he wants to watch channel he [TS]

  wouldn't even need a cable box and I think that's the upcoming Xbox already [TS]

  has some of that and I think it's great that the other one that works with is [TS]

  the time warner cable iPad app which has been surprisingly useful in our house it [TS]

  initially was only allowed to work in your house because it was seen as an [TS]

  extension of your cable subscriptions so right you had to be on the IP address of [TS]

  your home in a Jack Lee but because the cable company knows that you know can do [TS]

  that handshake on the back end you know you know you don't have to actually do [TS]

  the sign it so but theoretically you don't have to and I think comcast is [TS]

  actually has been bragging about some of that I think it's cool you know that [TS]

  then you could just just turn on your Apple TV in your house and it already [TS]

  know what channels or subscribe to you going to have to install some Comcast [TS]

  its cool im havin fun summer stuff you know people used to say people used to [TS]

  say prior to January 2007 that in fact if Apple ever makes a phone no never get [TS]

  into the never work with the carriers you know that the exact he'll do [TS]

  something some insert some kind of hand waving here that that would allow Apple [TS]

  to completely circumvent the carriers I mean people used to speculate that Apple [TS]

  would buy the MVNO those Apple AppleCare virtual carrier the way ESPN tried or [TS]

  Disney tried and both of those are big failures [TS]

  also is super us' centric because what are they gonna do set up their own [TS]

  carriers in 80 countries around the world that starting to get impractical [TS]

  and faces regulatory you know all the funny thing is that MVNOs are actually [TS]

  working outside of the US in a way that they never did work in the us- but [TS]

  whatever Canada this weekend but however omitted the iPhone has been distribution [TS]

  wise in six years because Apple has to work out these deals with carriers and [TS]

  their deals with carriers are obviously a lot more negotiated than typical phone [TS]

  makers because Apple you know maintains control that the carriers don't want to [TS]

  go and they get more money in etcetera etcetera however you know much the [TS]

  iPhone has been limited would be way more limited if Apple only sold it on [TS]

  its own Apple branded carrier networks around the world [TS]

  totally Aug even think of all the cell phone stores that you know especially [TS]

  outside of the USA where they don't have as many Apple stores where and that's [TS]

  and that's I think Ben I think that's also that's helped Android takeoff and [TS]

  phones but as we could see is really not help them in tablets at all because [TS]

  people don't buy their tablets at a phone store and I think it TV it's also [TS]

  gonna gonna be [TS]

  distribution of TV cable box from the provider but you don't really go to the [TS]

  store and buy it there so I don't know how that will play into it I don't know [TS]

  if they'll need those you know that kind of help for distribution [TS]

  maybe maybe there's some room for some subsidy or something if you sign a [TS]

  long-term contract with the TV provider something like that but I don't know [TS]

  yeah I don't know I'm not quite sure but I still think and I i really do I [TS]

  maintain this that Apple's TV strategy is not this secret thing in a lab that's [TS]

  totally new and revolutionary it's what we see right before our eyes [TS]

  this evolutionary step by step improvement to Apple TV as we know [TS]

  which I'm sure it's disappointing to some people but I guess that means it's [TS]

  real around like some fictional and you know who knows what they what they wanna [TS]

  do i mean there's been reports for years that they wanted to do some sort of in a [TS]

  new and crazy thing where they you know where they get the TV and a result you [TS]

  or something like that and the network said basically told them no thanks for [TS]

  not interested in that it's a weird business too because you have to think [TS]

  that broadcast television as you know is sort of a legacy business but it's a [TS]

  legacy business that that people still raging Lee popular maybe I'll probably [TS]

  be more popular than ever I I would only guess that people watch more TV than [TS]

  ever before and it's you know there's the way that the Internet and mobile [TS]

  have affected TV is really more that people sit on the couch with their [TS]

  iPhones while they're watching TV you know that they're doing both it's still [TS]

  an absurd number I think it's like at least four hours a day per household and [TS]

  even more so exactly the they've been disrupted in a different way it's only [TS]

  the detention has been slightly divided not that you don't watch TV right as [TS]

  opposed to say you know the devastation in print industry of magazines and [TS]

  newspapers and you know things like that like so they're still that's what makes [TS]

  this whole thing so entrenched is that there's still so much money being poured [TS]

  into cable TV every single month by any household that can afford it [TS]

  so I don't know I feel like there is no way to just sort of blow that up and I [TS]

  know that nerds you know I'm sure that like people who listen to the show more [TS]

  way more likely than the typical consumer to have you know what he called [TS]

  cut the cord and stop paying for cable but still watch lots of TV because you [TS]

  you know do it all over the internet with Netflix and Apple TV and Hulu and [TS]

  stuff like that I tried that and I went back actually I i i know i I could [TS]

  probably get away with it but you know I my wife I don't think I think Amy [TS]

  watches too many shows that aren't yeah it's a similar situation here have you [TS]

  ever watched a YouTube channel that's another thing where Google has been [TS]

  putting all this money into these YouTube channels and in theoretically [TS]

  that's kind of pride targeting even the younger generation and the kind of [TS]

  people who you just never had cable you know maybe they grew up with cable in [TS]

  their house but they went up the school and and switch now I don't think I've [TS]

  ever seen a YouTube channel I don't know it's very interesting one of the things [TS]

  that I think makes television so much more defensible then you know print [TS]

  print news or whatever media is just the complexity and cost of producing it [TS]

  exponentially harder to make good video than it is to make good print so you [TS]

  know it's interesting to see Google [TS]

  best think hundreds of millions of dollars in these YouTube channels which [TS]

  are trying to make good enough stuff to watch but hasn't really caught my [TS]

  attention yeah the big thing no I think any disruption has to meet this criteria [TS]

  just go back to the iPad introduction and then Steve Jobs almost spent at Van [TS]

  explaining the [TS]

  is there room for a product between a phone and a laptop and if so what would [TS]

  it be and that the whole point is it's gotta be better for some things than [TS]

  either the phone or the laptop I think that's a rule for any kind of disruption [TS]

  and just just go back to your toward the front example that watching it over the [TS]

  Internet makes it better [TS]

  it's not just hey I can do it over the internet it's just better like you said [TS]

  if you want to watch live it's no longer plastered with ads and you can time [TS]

  shift without needing to fill up your TiVo with five hours a day [TS]

  exactly or even needing a TiVo you know I would eat up the whole Tebow basic [TS]

  right and with the TiVo model you have to know in advance that you wanted to [TS]

  have it recorded and I you know I don't know if you like me but I never remember [TS]

  to set the tone now so I would think like a great tour to Francistown I can [TS]

  watch it and I think God and tape I still use the verb tape I do too and [TS]

  that's one of the things were you and you would think that the undermanned [TS]

  systems would be sophisticated enough by 2013 to see you wouldn't even need to [TS]

  DVR stuff but but no they're not only did the first quarter break great I tell [TS]

  you about great sponsor mail route [TS]

  mhm I L carro ute you may remember them have sponsored the show before it is a [TS]

  fantastic service here's the deal [TS]

  email still number one form of communication business personal [TS]

  everything and the truth of it is ninety percent of all email messages sent every [TS]

  single day for spam mail route is from the team that created Microsoft [TS]

  Forefront bunch of ex Microsoft guys real smart no hardware no software [TS]

  install all you do is forward you have your MX records point to mail route [TS]

  first your mail goes to them then it goes to your mail server just doesn't [TS]

  stay there it is goes through their filters and they take out all the spam [TS]

  and it is fantastic just works and makes it did add about I know about a second [TS]

  or so to email delivery so it's practically invisible once you've setup [TS]

  setup want all your email filters through there no more spam comes through [TS]

  to your mail server and I think I think with a lot of this the NSA stuff and [TS]

  stuff like that I think a lot of people are starting to revisit the idea of [TS]

  hosting her own mail server or you know at least if not the server itself but [TS]

  using your own domain and going somewhere like not Gmail or something [TS]

  like that but one of the things that makes gmail more useful than running [TS]

  around all servers that gmail is pretty good [TS]

  well use mail route instead pointed to your own hosted private mail mail server [TS]

  and you don't have the problem and I love this too is my favorite thing I [TS]

  loved explain this is is that they do this Great Trek they explain it on their [TS]

  site but here's what they do is whenever you get mail is one of the many ways [TS]

  that they catch the spam [TS]

  you get your server incoming message comes in [TS]

  totally legit in the email protocols for the server to say hey I'm busy right now [TS]

  now try again in a minute and a properly configured mail server they give you dan [TS]

  were sending me mail from a machine that had never seen before [TS]

  properly configure mail server that's no problem a minute later your server is [TS]

  going to your SMTP servers gonna send a message right back again and then mail [TS]

  route was ok good I'll take it all those bodies out there all the PCs that have [TS]

  been for debts and all the spam that are just spam bots that they don't they just [TS]

  move on they never come back they get that response from the mail server and [TS]

  never come back so the spam and they're gonna have to analyze the message for [TS]

  for all those machines all those machines sending spam out from bots [TS]

  Marriott didn't have to analyze the message they never even get the message [TS]

  never even comes in because it the server doesn't do the handshake thing [TS]

  come back in a great great service really great prices so here's what you [TS]

  do find out more go to mail route and may I borrow ute dotnet / the talk show [TS]

  and that way they'll know you came from the job and check them out my thanks to [TS]

  have you ever run your own mail server you mean like physically manage this [TS]

  server have like a server that might be managed [TS]

  no no not physically I i in high school I want to say I set up the Eudora [TS]

  internet mail server on my Mac over dial-up I don't recommend them and then [TS]

  you'd have to your machine would dial in and get the mail I remembered and I used [TS]

  to it my dad and I had to phone to phone lines running into a basement and we had [TS]

  dial up we had these wacky dial-up accounts with static IP addresses and we [TS]

  would just stay dialed up twenty four seven could you could basically never [TS]

  call our house signals on both lines just email it but I ran a hotline server [TS]

  on that thing and I also ran a bail server for a while and I wasn't my main [TS]

  email address was mostly just for just to see you know what kind of experience [TS]

  that would be [TS]

  was pretty damn I don't recommend doing that even even now with broadband [TS]

  there's absolutely no reason to run your own mail server on your puter this kind [TS]

  of fun fun project I can't even imagine doing that now so I wanted to ask you [TS]

  about about Vesper ok you know you've been doing it for over a month now and [TS]

  I'm just curious and i've kind of entered this round two somewhat recently [TS]

  and I'm curious like you know someone who's been observing and critiquing and [TS]

  analyzing this business for now five years the app economy and curious you [TS]

  know how has your experience been participating in it it's been very fun [TS]

  you know you do you're talking more now about the month sentence ship rather [TS]

  than like the money you know the development process and it has been fun [TS]

  it has I would say and it is very close to what I expected in terms of sales in [TS]

  response I think support has been handles 99% of the support for us but it [TS]

  seems that I keep my eye on it though it does seem though that the support we do [TS]

  by email has been lower than I'd worried because it's it's the sort of thing [TS]

  people say oh man $4.99 for an iPhone app that expensive but even at $4.99 [TS]

  once you or if if you're spending just a couple of minutes dealing with support [TS]

  you you lose must mean you can't it's understandable but but the customers [TS]

  have been great I think it's they've been really really easy to deal with [TS]

  complimentary have have made many great suggestions do you like it you want to [TS]

  spend more time on a door or I definitely I know its ongoing [TS]

  I mean it's has been a distraction from during fire but I guess someone I guess [TS]

  anything I do thats not during fireballs distraction from during fireball that's [TS]

  okay that's life you know right but you know it's it was never it was never [TS]

  meant to be a forty hour week things from my role it's you know little slice [TS]

  of my day every day and I'll enjoy it I enjoyed you enjoy it that's great is it [TS]

  is it interesting to see that kind of the app world from the other side orders [TS]

  at I guess you your conduct pretty close to it anyways very well it's always [TS]

  different when it for real and it's yours makes it personal [TS]

  how many articles have I written about a projections going out and then of course [TS]

  my app gets rejected what do I do but but it's interesting that it's [TS]

  interesting now though that we're past the moon we knew that when we announced [TS]

  it that it was you know going to garner a significant amount of day one press [TS]

  you know holy cow Brent Simmons John Gruber and some other guy a nap [TS]

  and the dike the day one day to sales were actually there were great and it's [TS]

  I guess it's still the majority of the total sales we've had that it was lower [TS]

  than I expected but the next week or two of sales was higher than I'd expected I [TS]

  expected us to sell a ton of copies in the first 24 hours and then immediately [TS]

  fall off a cliff and instead it was it was a lower Dave Winer that's a good [TS]

  initial 48 hours but then the drop off it has dropped off but it was a lot [TS]

  slower and steadier than I expected [TS]

  yeah I assume you look at the charts but like the app Annie cumulative charts are [TS]

  kind of interesting yeah you can see like you know when you update its bikes [TS]

  up and I see you took a comma to the name between last monday and tuesday for [TS]

  this we did we did this is one thing weird were twenty how to how to get [TS]

  regular day-to-day you know we haven't had a major new release you know how to [TS]

  get the average daily thing sales to go up a little bit and so we switched rooms [TS]

  just having the app's name in the listing from just plain Vesper to Vesper [TS]

  simple and elegant notes the ID thinking being that if somebody searches for [TS]

  let's say who hasn't heard about their just searching for a note app if you [TS]

  typed note we are listed somewhere in the results pretty you know reasonably [TS]

  high but our icon in the name best bird saying nothing about what the apt us and [TS]

  so you know is it is it a problem that people who already haven't heard of [TS]

  Vesper wouldn't even think to click on it in the store to try to do it so I [TS]

  guess last week we change it when we had an update we change the listing name to [TS]

  Vespers simple and elegant note but like I may even matter what number is in [TS]

  front of it like you know where we are in productivity like but it's like 47 [TS]

  periods base Vesper but that's it for the first line and certain other [TS]

  listings I forget which device but then it breaks to the next line and the next [TS]

  line just said simple and elegant dot dot dot so the word note didn't make it [TS]

  in so it looked like it was really close to getting simple to wrap on the [TS]

  previous line so we tried taking out the comment which we thought would make it [TS]

  work but it apparently didn't so we took out that comment I can't believe that [TS]

  you notice that of course I did that's why you know I'm a writer and editor [TS]

  it's interesting and I've had the same experience which is trying to figure out [TS]

  you know the App Store search as a user is obviously not ideal I think they [TS]

  actually made it worse when they switched from the ListView to this kind [TS]

  of like our debut in the App Store search on the iPhone and in my field [TS]

  city guides there and then there's the problem he can't duplicate names the App [TS]

  Store so if someone has San Francisco travel guide that's the only one that [TS]

  can exist with that title so the solution for everyone else has been to [TS]

  add these kind of keywords to the title which is actually I found out completely [TS]

  by accident not a lot so we knew we had to get rejected we have to redo it and [TS]

  it's fine it's pretty good policy is not to have too many keywords in the title [TS]

  but it's been very interesting to see kind of now I'm sure you can do this for [TS]

  the productivity feel too now I can look at the top ranking travel absence ok and [TS]

  how much money that gets make the day that's you know that's that's okay so [TS]

  it's been really interesting and I'm sure you've kind of experience this to [TS]

  like the whole how big is the App Store economy really and it should we be [TS]

  tweaking the price or or you know shifting the focus on making the appt [TS]

  more of a kind of social collaboration experience and that kind of stuff so [TS]

  I'm very interested to see what you guys do it and I've been running into people [TS]

  who who use it in single player mode and people are people dig it yeah its [TS]

  response has been great and we've really like I mean that's the main thing that I [TS]

  know rhonda something as I really I used that depend on it maybe it's close but I [TS]

  really do put put much thought into it and you know it's the dragging up and [TS]

  down that really helps for me at least organized I thought but the big thing to [TS]

  me is that strategy wise you just don't know where you're gonna end up as you [TS]

  know how successful it's gonna be into you hit the long run and you know you [TS]

  know what what is the long run for an iPhone app is it six months is it a year [TS]

  but at some point it settles in and that you know how successful your butt like [TS]

  one month in which is you know we're like five weeks now it's too early to [TS]

  tell [TS]

  so I don't know but in the meantime you know tinkering with some of the stuff I [TS]

  kinda hate the adding that simple elegant notes after the name but I don't [TS]

  know maybe it helps if it does help you know then it's it worth it but it's a [TS]

  little gross because they're not keywords you know it is I like it it's [TS]

  like a subheading which i think is responsible for a lot more book sales [TS]

  and people it's not that it's just it's not like you're trying to goose your [TS]

  search rankings you're trying to explain what you're clever name means yet you [TS]

  know that's exactly the announcement friend Paul closest noticed you know the [TS]

  name change in the listings and any exact said the exact same thing that [TS]

  it's like the way that books especially non-fiction books nowadays can't just [TS]

  have a simple title has to be a title [TS]

  and then you know an explanation of what it is it's not like you're gonna just [TS]

  name your appt simple elegant notes I mean you could but I can look good on [TS]

  the springboard so so they like Moneyball I just looked it up so money [TS]

  money by the great book by Michael Lewis on the Oakland A's from from the late [TS]

  nineties and early 2000 it's not just Moneyball Moneyball the art of winning [TS]

  an unfair game you know everything looks like a little cold subtitle I almost [TS]

  feel like the App Store should make that a field let it be named and then have a [TS]

  subtitle filled with fairly severe character limit [TS]

  yeah like 50 or something like that yeah I agree especially if they're going to [TS]

  maintain this requirement that note 2 apps can have the same title because you [TS]

  know now what were we passed a million after getting close to a million apps [TS]

  and you know at some point you just run out of options for you know and have [TS]

  some app that launched five years ago and hasn't been updated has the name [TS]

  that you only use and you're putting a lot of time and effort into it should be [TS]

  able to use that name so I went to one point they're gonna start or if they [TS]

  ever well but what point they'll start calling seemingly dead apps from the App [TS]

  Store like how many apps are in there now that don't even run on iOS 6 let [TS]

  alone 7 I think that's kind of how they do right as you just can't if you're [TS]

  running iOS 6 can you even in the App Store see apps that don't support iOS 6 [TS]

  and insert or anything like that I i dont know I don't think it would let you [TS]

  download an app that you can't run so I guess that's kind of how they but are [TS]

  they still sitting there squatting on names I believe the day oh yeah I would [TS]

  assume so yes it did they ever you know just kind of start [TS]

  but then what if someone is still using that app on an old first edition like we [TS]

  have the first iPad and now work totally hosed because you know eventually a lot [TS]

  of the absurd gonna break so far so far they have it but because you you know [TS]

  should you expect you can still download it I guess I don't know yeah I don't [TS]

  know and that's the kind of stuff where I i assume someone's thinking about it [TS]

  but i dont know can be interesting how's the so I think that is a distressing [TS]

  since last year on the show the San Francisco city guide I know you got it [TS]

  out just before the BDC remember linking to it helpful for all the land should [TS]

  during fireball nerds who are in town but you weren't you were on before that [TS]

  though right [TS]

  yeah I think I was on fire before that house icon now that you've expanded to [TS]

  22 so a couple things first of all the the concept people really like it and [TS]

  they really take it like they have been getting just tremendous feedback from [TS]

  people saying yeah this is great to see exactly what I need while I'm traveling [TS]

  or even you know just kind of getting outside the house I would love a [TS]

  thoughtful short simple list of great places to go but the the best feedback I [TS]

  think that we've gotten is from dozens of people who say this is awesome I [TS]

  really wanna make this you know I wanna I wanna make these lists and so you know [TS]

  I don't get too detailed now but that's kind of where I see the future of this [TS]

  going is you know less about me making these lists although I you know I love [TS]

  making them and I'm gonna continue making them forever but but trying to [TS]

  figure out an easy and fun way for other people to make them and taking some of [TS]

  the lessons we you know we've learned about the kind of the bottlenecks in [TS]

  production you know the [TS]

  surprisingly or maybe that's presently the longest time wise element of making [TS]

  one of these city notes apps is getting [TS]

  photographs is you know some some of these ITEC iTech myself some of them are [TS]

  publicity photos from the venues some of them are Flickr Creative Commons but by [TS]

  far the biggest time suck is this photo so how do we kind of rethink the product [TS]

  so that we don't rely necessarily on having a photo for each place having [TS]

  migrated away a super high quality yeah yeah I mean most seasoned professional [TS]

  photos in the photo credit the photographer cause they're you know [TS]

  they're doing it either the either the restaurant or the shop has his either [TS]

  paid them has some arrangement with the photographer where they can use these as [TS]

  they're like official publicity photos so but you know the notion of the iPhone [TS]

  and iPad is a creative device and not just a consumption device like that's [TS]

  something I really want to tap into it and let people really be creative with [TS]

  these things so it's not going to happen overnight but that's really kind of the [TS]

  direction that I want to take it and I think it's going to be a lot more fun [TS]

  and more successful you know it's great like when we release a new app like the [TS]

  San Francisco app and it gets like you said some some press attention or or a [TS]

  daring fireball link or something like that like we both times we launched [TS]

  their cities we became the number one pay travel app on the App Store Ian [TS]

  first time it happened I was like oh my god did I sell [TS]

  twenty thousand apps today or that it's like now it's actually a few hundred so [TS]

  you know trying to rely less on being ranked so high you know in in pain and [TS]

  figure out new ways to get more people using it and not just you know [TS]

  downloading it and then not looking at it again but really kind of playing with [TS]

  it every day so you know I wish I had thought about all this and do it when I [TS]

  started over a year ago but that doesn't work like that so do you think for you [TS]

  guys [TS]

  is your main or is it like maybe it's fifty fifty books are you more [TS]

  interested in getting people aware of city not outside the App Store just [TS]

  general awareness or is it about get raising the awareness inside the App [TS]

  Store in getting good rankings on the Travel section in them in the in the App [TS]

  Store I would say primarily now would be more outside the App Store I would say [TS]

  that one of the kind of engineering or whatever you wanna call product [TS]

  decisions I made very early on was that in the current kind of existence each [TS]

  city would be a separate out and I thought that would be the smart way to [TS]

  go about it because people would be searching for cities specific cities if [TS]

  they wanted information and I thought that there would be an upsurge volume in [TS]

  the App Store to make that a good decision but it turns out that it's just [TS]

  you know what what will eventually do and what I should have done for the [TS]

  beginning was just make one big gap has all the cities and it as either in-app [TS]

  purchases or some sort of a nap feature because the number of people searching [TS]

  specifically for San Francisco guide is no single digits every day or or or you [TS]

  know it the search result so but you know any time we do an article that gets [TS]

  linked or even a treat is a huge spike in sales so you know potentially [TS]

  thousands a day so [TS]

  the idea as the App Store gets bigger and I guess just more apps and and still [TS]

  the same amount of space on your screen so really to be a successful brand in [TS]

  mobile now you really have to be everywhere not just in the App Store so [TS]

  yeah I don't think I think it's important it's important for us to cause [TS]

  I really do think long-term I mean hopefully you know we will seek out a [TS]

  spot where people of looking for notes like I want a better note app than the [TS]

  one that comes with the phone will find Vesper in the App Store and consider it [TS]

  maybe buy it but I think ultimately our best chances to raise awareness of [TS]

  Vesper outside the App Store said that people go to the App Store looking for [TS]

  best per I think it's a better and more sustainable strategy you know like I [TS]

  think you know I mean obviously evernote is a huge you know five hundred-pound [TS]

  gorilla in that space and I think you know and they clearly have that it's not [TS]

  just that people get Evernote because they were in the App Store looking for a [TS]

  No Tappan founded people have heard of ever know and I think then you go to the [TS]

  App Store and find it [TS]

  yea well with Evernote I mean that's how especially once you are that size and [TS]

  you have to go cross platform and you know when the things we think about is [TS]

  like what what if we had an Android version how would be charged for stuff [TS]

  or even just a web version you know I assume maybe someday there will be a web [TS]

  version of you know something that that where the iTunes currency doesn't exist [TS]

  like how do you even think about that do you do need a virtual currency [TS]

  everywhere you just need to use different payment engines and that sort [TS]

  of stuff and thankfully like we're still at a point in its simplicity and it [TS]

  looks like you are to where that's not really a concern but [TS]

  you know at some point it will be so but in general it's just about being [TS]

  wherever people are who want smart in my case Smart City information and in your [TS]

  case very simple notes system the thing too is man search results in the App [TS]

  Store or just unpredictable and sometimes you type something you think [TS]

  you're gonna take it you get exactly what you expect them to think you're [TS]

  looking for is the first dinners all other times it's not like the other day [TS]

  maybe was just yesterday I linked to on during fireball to a new version of very [TS]

  cool calendar app called agenda and it's you know it's been around for a while [TS]

  they're up to version four point know they've been successful enough that they [TS]

  you know have you know professional developers have gotten of four point now [TS]

  but when you go to the App Store and type agenda you get it all Calendar apps [TS]

  that come up there so number one they're just awful just you just tell from this [TS]

  screen shots they're just too just like horrible and agenda was actually I [TS]

  forget where was it was my way down it was like not even in the top 10 in the [TS]

  results which is just weird that you would think a nap named agenda that is [TS]

  popular would be how could it not be the top hit when you search for agenda [TS]

  yeah and and at worst time for that unfortunately when a nap is new and [TS]

  comes out and yeah that's the day where everyone wants it you know you search [TS]

  for the new app and it just hasn't I guess the cash hasn't synced up yet or [TS]

  something you don't find it and that's how do you get past that we weren't [TS]

  surprised by that I mean Brent you know Simmons is already had a bunch apps in [TS]

  the store and he knew that and I'd follow closely and Dave to dave is [TS]

  submitted enough absolutely knew that [TS]

  so we weren't surprised but it was still frustrating because we're getting a lot [TS]

  of tweets day 1 like they heard about your new app went AppStore search for [TS]

  Vespers doesn't show up you know is there a problem is not my country right [TS]

  now it's just not us [TS]

  iTunes search server for your country yeah I get that they have small teams [TS]

  and a lot of things to think about but that would be something you know if they [TS]

  were if there were one thing in the App Store that they could really kind of [TS]

  spend some more time on it would be searched because you know what the [TS]

  editorial stuff they do is actually good and when you get featured at you can [TS]

  definitely see a bomb and it was awesome but the searches is an everyday thing [TS]

  that just as a user is frustrating and is now is a developer I guess is needs [TS]

  some attention but let me take a second break down to about our second sponsor a [TS]

  second sponsors brand-new first time on the talk-show fascinating almost [TS]

  unbelievable is a living in the future type stuff it's 23 in me what they've [TS]

  got [TS]

  as you give $99 and they send you a DNA personal DNA testing kit like something [TS]

  I'd like minority reporters something you get over two hundred and forty [TS]

  personalized health trade and ancestry reports so they give you your ancestry [TS]

  information you can discover your global orange engine and maybe even find living [TS]

  relatives around the world they have over a quarter million members already [TS]

  so it's the largest DNA ancestry service in the world and it's very easy to do [TS]

  you order it online [TS]

  you provide a saliva samples have to punch your skin or anything like that [TS]

  nothing like that just a little bit of saliva and you send it back to them [TS]

  in the provided return postage then it goes to their lab in their lab you know [TS]

  I don't know insert all the crazy test that they do there and then they send [TS]

  back to you your personal reports and totally secure online account and it [TS]

  includes fun stuff to you can find out maybe if I know you're related to [TS]

  somebody famous you can find out how closely related to calls you know I [TS]

  think we can guess the to some people who are closer closer than others and [TS]

  even so you know this is crazy stuff like that you know that everybody knows [TS]

  about this stuff with jeans like you know you know how some people donate a [TS]

  cilantro it tastes like soap or they can they can tell you they can predict based [TS]

  on your kid whether you're gonna like the taste of saundra so here's what you [TS]

  do to find out more [TS]

  really fascinating go to 23 in me dot com slash the talk-show 23 and me to [TS]

  three aaand / the talk show and find out why they were named Time [TS]

  magazine's invention of the year and that burn their name that I was back in [TS]

  2008 the price was 200 99 bucks now it's down to $99 so go check them out if [TS]

  you're curious about your DNA no I haven't either but so you know that [TS]

  brings wife is one of the founders hand remember when he started blogging yeah I [TS]

  was his first or second post sex just found it [TS]

  2008 where he wrote about how he found out that he has a a gene and you know [TS]

  trying to read fast but you know could could potentially have parkinson's so it [TS]

  kind of [TS]

  is that the kind of information that would be useful to have at this point [TS]

  your life or not I know but with any kind of stopped blogging after that [TS]

  there's very very interesting know I should do it I definitely it's it's it's [TS]

  kind of amazing to me that you can do it sounds to me like it's like I read so [TS]

  much science fiction when I was a kid in a teenager and it just sounds like [TS]

  something out of science fiction to read in the coming days and then you get back [TS]

  report telling everything about you I tweeted the other day I between the [TS]

  other day that I was watching I started watching the Terminator movies with my [TS]

  son Jonas has nine and this is actually it sounds like a joke but it really was [TS]

  not a joke was that the aspect of the first took the 1984 original Terminator [TS]

  that he he found the most implausible was from books they used to be [TS]

  everywhere and they listed everyone and it was the only way to find some of the [TS]

  from [TS]

  why wouldn't they just did they just look them up online or that there was no [TS]

  on Tuesday but they're terminators wouldn't have it in their heads as they [TS]

  put their the database did exist at the time [TS]

  mind and then funny enough just total coincidence that this was the week when [TS]

  whenever the remnants of the old yellow pages coming in that they actually came [TS]

  by and dropped off a phone book in front of our house still get them here I saw [TS]

  also saw a huge pile of them I mean like it must have been at least thirty or [TS]

  forty of them just all of 30 or 40 of them right next to one of the the public [TS]

  trash bins here in Philadelphia right at the street corner but I don't know they [TS]

  they become mountains of its like [TS]

  however route is to come by and put like a flyer for [TS]

  you know a pizza place or a cleaning service or something like that put it on [TS]

  your doorknob put it through your mail slot or something like that it's [TS]

  incredibly rude to drop off four-pound stack of paper and it just as such it to [TS]

  me like such as you know nobody uses the damn things it's such a mind blowing [TS]

  waste of paper what do people do for high chairs now booster seats somebody [TS]

  asked me that on Twitter that they did say that I think I think that everybody [TS]

  has like real booster seats now and think like car travel with kids has [TS]

  gotten so like serious like you know when I was a kid my sister I used to [TS]

  stand in the back seat of the car while we go places and jump around now it's [TS]

  like everybody you know you know booster seat early and around there like raided [TS]

  by the approved by the government [TS]

  you have their own built-in iPod docks and everything right that is a great [TS]

  physical reminder of you know you have all these start-up winks talking about [TS]

  disruption all the time not stop but the phone companies they should have been [TS]

  there should have been Google you know they should have been the ones to to be [TS]

  the ones maintaining it and and helping us find everything on the internet but [TS]

  instead they were so concerned about the business of their own book division that [TS]

  they got completely passed up and what a monopoly that was what a fantastic [TS]

  monopoly rate like you're all of a sudden you or [TS]

  your shower breaks no no you get no hot water comes out of the shower gotta get [TS]

  a plumber everybody everybody would just go to the yellow pages and there was [TS]

  only one yellow pages because it was the the phone service was a monopoly [TS]

  may imagine how imagine how artificially inflated advertising rates were for Lake [TS]

  businesses like plumbers phone number and read or something that was that was [TS]

  that was that was a thing yeah you'd get like you're listening in red or to be [TS]

  unlisted yeah and that was ridiculous used to have to pay for that Google [TS]

  should draw surcharge for that but now no one wants that now everyone wants to [TS]

  be ranked higher no one wants to be I guess there's the robots txt file but [TS]

  should charge for that [TS]

  yeah I would pay for now but so funny like just think that I guess the same [TS]

  thing happened with the newspapers and classified ads to you not think it and [TS]

  that's why I always give give props to keep saying that i really respect Reed [TS]

  Hastings of from Netflix does he ever gonna get rid of our DVD business called [TS]

  Qwikster you know I never gave me crap for that I was ultimately a dumb idea [TS]

  but he was coming from the right place is very rare in the rare instance of [TS]

  somebody who is willing to solve where where the truly saw where the puck was [TS]

  going regardless of where the puck is right now and and wanted to get there as [TS]

  soon as possible and think nice thing is they've recovered actually had to [TS]

  re-sign up for DVDs few months ago to rent something it wasn't even gonna bust [TS]

  it was it was the brown bunny look it up i dont wanna talk about it it's don't [TS]

  sign up for Netflix DVDs can I just kept getting more and more I finally canceled [TS]

  its at the mall that kids movie now it's you know it's not a kids movie it's it's [TS]

  like that at all I was at a party and I heard about it [TS]

  the kids were not even a good it's only a Netflix DVDs get it doesn't even did [TS]

  you look it up later and Svensson gala movie yeah anyways no more DVDs for me [TS]

  not much else going on news was only a little tiny thing I well what do you [TS]

  have something just a gloriously slow period so there's one thing that's kind [TS]

  of been interesting as these cell phone companies with these new subscription [TS]

  plans for your phone [TS]

  have you seen that like the hotel charges like 10 20 30 50 bucks a month [TS]

  so that you can get more upgrades every year you know upgrade your phone every [TS]

  few months [TS]

  yeah I thought I saw t-mobile pushing that t-mobile and then of course [TS]

  everyone in mobile copies each other's immediately AT&T and Verizon have [TS]

  announced there's two different prices and some of this already existed it was [TS]

  kind of this is just a different way of getting people to buy insurance for [TS]

  their phone before it was if your phone is stolen or lost will replace it now [TS]

  it's if there's a new HTC Android phone that you like more than your current one [TS]

  that you can trade in and and get the newest one it seems like it's a step [TS]

  even further in the direction of obfuscating the purchasing of a phone [TS]

  you know where we're like the to me the natural way and I know that outside the [TS]

  USA this is actually in Western Europe I think this is very common where you buy [TS]

  a phone for an actual price unsubsidized and you just pay a tax dollars a month [TS]

  for service and there is no contract and that there's no you know what that means [TS]

  your iPhone is six or seven hundred bucks and then you realize it is and [TS]

  what your monthly bill is a lot lower than what we pay here in Aus because [TS]

  there's no [TS]

  subsidy read you know and I i see how the psychology of that works but you [TS]

  know you're not really getting a $600 iPhone 4 $199 you're paying that you [TS]

  know it's like paying off credit card over two years and this these [TS]

  subscription plans just seemed like a way that even obfuscated that further [TS]

  yes and it does kind of in need especially in the Android world where [TS]

  there are possibly two or three phones a year that are significantly better than [TS]

  whatever you had last year that might be interesting you know oh there's a new [TS]

  place at like two or three times a year [TS]

  yeah but you got to give them the old phone right essentially been paying for [TS]

  and now don't get the resale value or even just the old phone so the the [TS]

  bottom line is that it's kind of a rip off you know maybe it'll be something [TS]

  that people who don't care about necessarily the best value find [TS]

  interesting because they can get a new phone every year and you know i i wonder [TS]

  if if this is successful this becomes the way that people buy phones which I [TS]

  don't think it will but if it does how sustainable than is Apple's own per year [TS]

  kind of model I guess right now it's it works because most people don't even get [TS]

  a phone every every two years so it just seems like I don't know it just seems [TS]

  like they're made a service that most people don't want I think so it is it is [TS]

  a huge rip up in a sound like you're getting cheaper service for it or [TS]

  anything either so that [TS]

  subsidy that your theoretically we're paying off with expensive service [TS]

  they're still paying that expensive service I dunno I think people want i [TS]

  mean i i think most people really just wanna phone that they can rely on you [TS]

  know has battery good enough battery to get them through the day and does things [TS]

  that they want and if you know phones not giving him any problems like being [TS]

  slow or running out of battery halfway through the day then they call it a win [TS]

  and they're not looking to replace it right i agree with that so I I don't [TS]

  think this will be hugely popular but the other thing too about that one phone [TS]

  in your thing is even with the one phone a year [TS]

  pace at Apple it's still every time they do it always is [TS]

  garners these were really that's it that's it's just like last year's phone [TS]

  but blank every single year so if they were to step it up to six months to a [TS]

  year it would be even more incremental like I don't think it wouldn't it [TS]

  wouldn't help them increase the pace of technology it would just mean that maybe [TS]

  instead of getting a new camera and a new quad-core GPU in the phone all at [TS]

  once you have gotten the new camera model six months ago and then that same [TS]

  camera but now the quad-core 60 GPU six months after that even less dramatic [TS]

  right [TS]

  change right thing that's gonna I think the people who just vaguely want Apple [TS]

  to release to frontier instead of 10 new year somehow think that magically that [TS]

  would you know that there would still be the same technological Delta between you [TS]

  know that somehow they released twelve months a year that you know we have you [TS]

  know paper thin phones they made a transparent aluminum or something we'll [TS]

  see what I do think it's interesting how everything now me like so Apple earnings [TS]

  are coming up next week and I think pretty much everyone out there is [TS]

  expecting just kind of extremely boring results because there really hasn't [TS]

  anything happening at some point they'll have to get out of this current thing [TS]

  where everything comes out on October 10th or whatever and then that's it for [TS]

  the whole year I mean I don't know how I can't see how that would be helpful for [TS]

  anyone inside or outside Apple I think it's you know I don't think that that's [TS]

  on purpose I think it's just the way the current product cycles have all worked [TS]

  out [TS]

  yeah you know that it's just you know I think that there's there was a push you [TS]

  know last year you're right I everything's cool you know there was a [TS]

  push to get these new iPad out in time for the holiday and you know I think [TS]

  whatever is coming up to the iPad this year it wasn't ready in February but you [TS]

  know last year was the weird year where they had the iPad 3 on the you know [TS]

  until then regular schedule coming out around April and then they different [TS]

  first time had a new one come out six months after that and I don't think that [TS]

  meant that they were going to do it every six months i dont I'm almost [TS]

  certain that was never the plan it was i think a sort of a stopgap because they [TS]

  knew whatever the one is coming out this year wasn't gonna be ready until you [TS]

  know late in 2013 so rather than go eighteen months with the iPad 3 better [TS]

  to only go six months and quick you know improved the GPU and put the lightning [TS]

  adapter in there [TS]

  yeah yeah that's the sort of incremental thing that that would happen with the [TS]

  phone if they came out with new phones every six months and I think the only [TS]

  reason they did it with the iPad last year's that they knew that that iPad the [TS]

  iPad for was gonna be on the market for a whole year yeah that makes sense are [TS]

  you are you gonna follow Johnny desire and get a white iPhone for the first [TS]

  time this year no definitely not I wouldn't be surprised though I would not [TS]

  be surprised if this is the year though where they live with the iPads iPhones [TS]

  come out with multiple colors are now that's why I think that's gonna happen I [TS]

  do think it's interesting [TS]

  that they really are playing up the white phone with the 7th so I wonder why [TS]

  I you know I don't know I mean I'm testing iOS 7 on my black iPhone I'm [TS]

  actually using it daily i phone you are yeah it's pretty good today that the [TS]

  latest beta is really was a huge step up stability wise so you know I I installed [TS]

  it and it hasn't been a problem I think it looks just fine I don't think it [TS]

  looks any better on white I think the reason that they show white and all the [TS]

  marketing materials now is one to be consistent and two because I feel like a [TS]

  lot of people make good looking black sounds and very few companies seem able [TS]

  to make a good white one and Apple you know itself famously struggled to get [TS]

  the white iPhone 4 out i mean it took like nine months after it was scheduled [TS]

  to come out I think it's hard to do white and they're therefore they can [TS]

  show something that most companies can't do I think HTC's may be the only other [TS]

  company that makes it pretty good looking white phone as interesting HTC [TS]

  is sort of obscure you know and I think it I think that Apple's white phones [TS]

  look way better than Samsung's 705 even seen Samsung's up-close yeah that's [TS]

  interesting and you know I would guess that their colorful colour gonna look [TS]

  pretty great too I I recently bought an ipod touch to run beta software and I [TS]

  almost got one of those colored ones but I went with the the cheap old black and [TS]

  black and silver one but yeah they're getting good with the colors so I I'm [TS]

  actually excited I don't think I'm gonna buy the cheap call for one but it's good [TS]

  that I'll be there i think im not convinced that they're gonna do two [TS]

  colorful I don't know how you think that's I don't know but I don't know I i [TS]

  want the big one but that's another half of another show I don't know I don't [TS]

  know how could I could be wrong [TS]

  not totally sure what to expect with the funds and I quite sure I would be [TS]

  surprised arrived there is no change at all just add iPhone 5s yeah i phone 5 [TS]

  moves down the scale and iphone4s becomes the free one yeah where they [TS]

  were they bring in the colorful one and a low and with lightning and everything [TS]

  right that would be the reason do it i mean there is some sense that and then [TS]

  and then have all of the phones be theirs 22 hardware angles on that have [TS]

  all the phones have 16 29 screens and have all the phones have like doctors [TS]

  that would be the reason to introduce a new low-end iPhone instead of keeping [TS]

  the for us around for another year as the low end and LTE possibilities on [TS]

  every yeah I guess but I think that that way the screen dimension is the same on [TS]

  all the aspect ratio is the same on all phones pop perhaps the screen size would [TS]

  be the same on all phones and lightning adapter so maybe I would I mean why [TS]

  would I want to buy a low and now that I want 25 ass so we'll see here all right [TS]

  let's wrap the show do it down from thanks working people find online the [TS]

  best place is on Twitter I guess from dome fr om et toi me or if you'd like to [TS]

  check out city notes which is by mobile travel city guide staying at at City [TS]

  notes that I O [TS]

  what style died I think its Indian Ocean where Vespers Vesper a p.c oh . coal [TS]

  which i think is very popular because it looks like aids just like dot com but [TS]

  without the end but it actually Columbia I'll call ya one of the things that I'd [TS]

  seen over the past year to dozens and dozens and dozens of times but never [TS]

  really thought what it meant until we registered [TS]

  better better know what the hell this as I think one of the neat things about [TS]

  mobile being so important for you know for a company if a young company now is [TS]

  that the domain really doesn't matter as much as they used to be and then for me [TS]

  the biggest thing just people people being ill able to pronounce and spell it [TS]

  which is not the case for my other sites plaintiff so . I O is kind of cool [TS]

  domain I think we're we're enjoying it so far we have been shut down by the [TS]

  Libyan government or any of that sort of I actually I I would not I [TS]

  don't know I think it's crazy I think it's really not that bitterly you know [TS]

  which is India as a lot of money in it that they went that route because I know [TS]

  that they've got other domains that the same shortcut works like if something [TS]

  happened in Libyan government shutdown bitly you know they have the OJ da Tempe [TS]

  would take a big lead top comments but it's just not to me that you put any [TS]

  brand equity in something where it's at the at the video of Libya as well as [TS]

  North Korean domains that's what it what do they have to have died and can get [TS]

  like judaai ke alright let's wrap the show thanks [TS]